As a former 7th fleeter 1999-2004, that area is home to the most high stakes game of "I'm not touching you..."

@garycoloradosprings3947

Жыл бұрын

LOL! Good one.

@ichimonjiguy

Жыл бұрын

Why didn't the US F-35 or F-18 intercept the Chinese fighters before they were even half-way approaching the reconnaissance plane?

@Siddich

Жыл бұрын

@@ichimonjiguy therefore they have to be close...

@ichimonjiguy

Жыл бұрын

@@Siddich Of course they have to be close, to protect the slow moving high value assets. Why not? Fighters to fight. Not the spy plane to fight the fighter jet.

@RCAvhstape

Жыл бұрын

@@ichimonjiguy Recon planes deliberately fly unarmed and unescorted to be able to claim innocence in case any shooting occurs. That's why it takes balls to fly these missions, because if the interceptors decide to kill you there is nothing you can do about it.

I got to meet the EP-3 crew from the 2001 collision at Andrews AFB airshow. They had a J-8 'kill' marking on the (replacement) aircraft. I suspect that the marking didn't last too long.

@unclefart5527

Жыл бұрын

Talked to a crew as well at an airshow. Told them "You owe them one". Their eyes widened and they wanted to talk but I'm sure they had their instructions.

@lktan224

Жыл бұрын

Yes killed a J8 but the killer had to made an emergency landing in Hainan, China. The plane were broken in multiple pieces by the Chinese for inspection.

@alanholck7995

Жыл бұрын

@@lktan224 I somehow recall that it was a former Soviet cargo plane they used to fly it back to US.

@alanholck7995

Жыл бұрын

@@unclefart5527 Nothing a few turrets w/ a pair of ma deuce each couldn't fix.

@vxe6vxe6

Жыл бұрын

@@alanholck7995 Yes, an Antonov An124.

My father was an F-4 and F-14 pilot. I have a story that would probably make a great video for you Ward, but I'll summarize it here: During a Medd cruise, pops went up to intercept and escort a Tu-95 Bear that was transiting the fleet, as they often did. During this intercept, the pair passed through a cloud. According to my Uncle, the man telling the story initially and a Naval Aviator himself (S-3s), the Bear struck the tail of my Dad's F-4 with his wing, severely damaging the upper part of the vertical stabilizer. His wingman comes over, does a BDA, and advises Pops to bail. He does not bail, and instead manages to land on the carrier safely. I will reach out to my uncle to try and hammer down this story a little more neatly, get the important facts straightened out, and then contact you about a potential video. You're a good story teller, and I think you'd do it justice.

@Brandonthesnifferofall

Жыл бұрын

Yeah would make another good story, than you for sharing 👍

@SPFLDAngler

Жыл бұрын

Too bad he doesn’t read comments

@dockie2747

Жыл бұрын

@@SPFLDAngler It is quite unfortunate. He used to.

@Travisesty

11 ай бұрын

Would LOVE to hear it!!! Yeah it’s a shame he doesn’t read the comments

@falconeaterf15

6 ай бұрын

Bear is more maneuverable than F4? Did not know that.

I used to be a merchant marine deck officer, and that whole "Oh the 4 engined, 707 based airframe made my Flanker have to take evasive action" reminds me very much of being on the bridge of the ship going into some place like the Persian Gulf and the Iranian Revolutionary Guards being out in the Straight of Hormuz getting in the way of traffic and being like, "American containership, state your intentions." "Yes Iranian motor boat... My intention is to safely transit the Straight of Hormuz inside the approved and recognized traffic seperation scheme, which, in accordance with the Colregs, you are impeding illegally. My vessel is restricted to operation inside the TSS, so be advised to keep clear of my vessel. Out." Hanging up on those guys was fun. Sometimes we just ignored them, which is also illegal. I used to love listening to them try to demand info from the US Navy. There was a DDG-51 right outside the straights just doing their thing, but not in anyone's way, and the Iranian Navy had this really annoying coastal radio station that would harass people, and the Iranians called them on Channel 16 like 9 times asking them to state intentions and the DDG just ignored them. On about the 9th or 10th try, they answered, and you could tell the guy on the DDG was reading his script. Iran hailed, and without preamble they just said, "This is Coalition Warship (insert number here - for some reason it always seemed to be something like 73). Be advised we are conducting military operations in international waters in the vacinity of the Straight of Hormuz. All traffic is advised to stay clear of my vessel. Warship 73 Out." Well Iran didn't like that and called back, and they gave them the same line again. So Iran called again and this time, the DDG agreed to change to a different channel, so I swapped one of my 3 VHF radios to the new freq to keep listening. Iran asked what they were doing about 5 times, and every time they just said the same thing, verbatim. Finally, on about the 8th time they asked for information, the DDG reads out their canned statement and the Iranians say, "How many warships are taking part in military operations with you at this time? Over." I remember thinking, "They aren't going to tell. They'll barely admit to being out here." To my shock, the DDG responded with something like, "Be advised, we are operating in company with 7 additional Coalition warships at this time. All traffic must keep clear of my vessel. Out." My watch partner didn't understand what was so funny, but I got a huge kick out of it. Iran basically begged them to say anything, and eventually they basically said, "Piss off, I'm busy, and if you don't, I've got the boys with me, so you're really going to want to piss off soon," and Iran was like, "Yeah... yeah that does sound like the smarter move. Don't shoot us. We're done bothering you." It was awesome. I hated going over there so much.

@JoshuaC923

Жыл бұрын

That's hilarious

@cycloneranger7927

Жыл бұрын

Thank god your story isn’t about how your grandfather was on the Arizona and fought at Midway, D-Day, and Leyte. That’s usually the sort of BS KZreadrs like to write. Your story is both entertaining and plausible.

@peterruiz6117

Жыл бұрын

Iran should have/ could have been dealt with....But after the Afganistan debockle, we should probably try to get better potus for any more of that.

@gaoxiaen1

Жыл бұрын

@@peterruiz6117 *debacle

@jimtalbott9535

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like a “soundboard” would be useful - just have some canned responses at a click.

Back in June a Chinese jet deployed chaff into the engine of a RAAF P-8. This took the aircraft out of service for few weeks for repair. Was well covered in the Australian news.

@wilfdarr

Жыл бұрын

​@tianxiawushuang1393If you saw a police officer taking pictures of your house from the street you'd shoot him? Good luck with that (you don't even own a gun, so yourcomment is doubly hilarious!) And before you say "Americans aren't world police" I'll remind you that the Chinese have violated sanctions against North Korea WHICH THEY AGREED TO. So if they won't deal honestly with the world and with nations actually trying to work with them to stabilize the region, then they can expect to be treated like the dishonest untrustworthy sods they are!

@niuchajianfa6222

Жыл бұрын

they don't have camera in australia?

@wilfdarr

Жыл бұрын

@tianxiawushuang1393 "Who allowed you to impose sanctions on North Korea?" That would be China, signed February 2017. By December 2017 they were violating their own sanctions. 🤣😂🤣😂 Chinese people are liars. Your are a liar because you're Chinese. It's cultural. Prove me wrong by telling one truth. I'll wait.

@wilfdarr

Жыл бұрын

@tianxiawushuang1393 2) I'm not American: I too support Cuba's right to sovereignty the same as I support Taiwanese sovereignty and Tibetan sovereignty!

@wilfdarr

Жыл бұрын

@tianxiawushuang1393 1) You sound just like the Americans "we go around saving the world, whether they want saving or not!" You "saved" Tibet by destroying their culture. Awesome! 2) "You'd better save yourself from the evil capitalists first": You mean capitalists like 马一龙和特斯 拉还有乔布斯和苹果还有马云和阿 里巴巴? 哈哈哈哈哈！照照镜子小朋友。

Wow I've never seen an AN-22 before. Love how there just seems to be an unending amount of aircraft one can discover exist or once existed, it's like species of insects. Also that first Chinese Navy/Coast Guard guy sounded so casual and friendly in a way. Reminded me of someone you'd hear on the other end of a tech support line.

@purplepenguin43

Жыл бұрын

if you like unusual aircraft my favorite aircraft is the YC-14,

@minzahhh1

Жыл бұрын

Im an Australian and I've been fascinated with American military aircraft as of late...the story's attached to a tail number are amazing

@colinolson7636

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree with you. I've always been fascinated by flight but not enough to really research it until the last 6 months after a visit to Pima air and space museum in Tucson. There are so many oddball and interesting aircraft that have been thought up.

I'm all about professional pilots showing their skills to other foreign aircraft. This has always happened, I remember a Russian Bear, escorted by two F-14 Tomcats, overflying my ship (USS Enterprise CVN-65) in the South Pacific in 1986. That was awesome, we also snapped photos of a Russian Backfire during that cruise. I would like to think that pilots of any country still appreciate and respect the pilots of another. Perhaps you guys and girls will bring hostilities to an end. I would appreciate that. Peace to all.

@th232r6

10 ай бұрын

Peace is wishful thinking.

@Richardrefund

10 ай бұрын

@@th232r6 Peace must be a priority for every Man and Woman with a conscience. If you don’t, you deserve what comes your way.

Can't help but chuckle at the message "from the Chinese Navy" being quite close to "All your base are belong to us."

There was also an instance a few years ago where a PLA fighter purposely dispensed chaff into the engine intake of a RAAF P-8.

I was on an LST in the SCS and a Soviet plane zoomed by very closely. Everyone saw him coming and threw whatever was in their hands at the moment in front of the plane, wrenches, shackles, bolts, etc... Our CO came on the 1MC and said not to do that because we could cause an international incident. He came by again but not so close.

@howardbartlett3026

Жыл бұрын

We LOVED your comment !

@angusmatheson8906

Жыл бұрын

Hahahaha

Another great episode. In the 70's I remember two P-3 events. The one Mr. Anderson speaks of (Subic Bay); I remember as the ground crew servicing the Water/Menthol tanks improperly which ethanol. When the aircraft rolled down the runway, the pilots armed the water/menthol injection system, the system kicked in for extra power on takeoff, the ethanol hit the compressor section causing the one or more of the engines to explode and the aircraft landed in Subic Bay. I was told there were more fatalities than one. (The safety investigation lead to the 55 gal drums to be repainted to different colors for different liquids and to separation distances being greater for different liquids.) The second incident was a P-3 doing an emergency landing in the Bering Sea, this ditching was considered a successful ditching of a P-3 in that only half the crew perished, remainder were rescued by a Russian Fishing boat off the coast of Russia between Russia and the Aleutian Islands. Even though half the crew died, it was listed a the only successful ditching of a P-3 at that time (1974/5).

@keirfarnum6811

Жыл бұрын

“Menthol?” Do you mean “methanol?” It’s interesting that ethanol and methanol would have such different effects in the engine though.

The American kid was caned for serial vandalism. Him and a couple of friends had been trashing cars for months. The others had diplomatic immunity. It was in the 1990ies, when I was living there.

@LuvBorderCollies

Жыл бұрын

Yes I remember it was splashed in the US news at the time. Media was crying over the little brat boo hoo. Hilarious part was the media polling done to find out 85% of Americans for whipping the punk. And they broadcast it on the news. I think they realized they shot both their feet admitting their tears were shared very few Americans. LOL

My day just got better! Any day with a new Ward Carroll video is better for it. 😃

I had to laugh. In your day in the F-14 things might have been ‘calm’ with the Soviets. My uncle was an airborne Russian linguist in the USAF in 1955-75, and flew missions all over the world. He has stories of a North Korean MiG-17 pulling up in front of the C-130B-II Sun Valley bird he was in, so close that the afterburner blew out a cockpit window and depressurized them. He also flew all the early RC-135 variants, including the über spooky KC-135R Cobra Jaw (first use of the KC-135R MDS long before the CFM engines) that trailed an antenna on a thousand feet of cable out the back end. A Soviet pilot got too interested in the antenna and got his MiG tangled up in the cable - and it wasn’t a good outcome for him. So yeah, the Chinese are being assholes, but there’s nothing new under the sun.

@Warhorse500

Жыл бұрын

I had a friend of mine with some experience at sea with the Navy during the 80s tell me a story about how the F-14s would interact with the Russian naval BEARs (Tu-142). A two-ship would go up, and #2 would drop back roughly a mile in trail while Lead would take station off the left wingtip of the BEAR. Then #2 would flip on the PHOENIX radar and just leave it on....the BEAR would get a RWR in their cockpit. This would continue until the BEAR turned off and RTB'd....

@RCAvhstape

Жыл бұрын

There is a video somewhere on youtube of a Soviet navy ship deliberately ramming a US Navy ship in the 80s. The Soviet officers are standing on their bridge in dress uniforms at attention, while on the US ship someone is blasting Van Halen out of a boombox.

@catsailor8621

Жыл бұрын

@@RCAvhstape 🤣😂🤣…if nothing else, at least they were playing my Fave Band with Eddie’s Tension-filled Licks at a Tense Moment as the Always Irreverent Yankees Smile as a Symbolic Middle Finger! Ha! Ha! Ha! 🇺🇸 💪 ⚔️ 🛡️ ⚔️

@BETTER.ART.

Жыл бұрын

A MiG-17 with afterburner? What?

@RCAvhstape

Жыл бұрын

@@BETTER.ART. Yes, MiG-17 had an afterburner.

I used to fly with Senior Chief Mellos who was one of the flight engineers on the EP-3 back when I was in VP-10 in the early 1990's. At the time of the incident I had no idea. It was when I was watching the news where they showed the EP-3 crew stepping off the airplane once they released back to the U.S. I couldn't believe it when I saw him. I figured that there was some chance I might know someone but figured it was slim to none. I'm glad Nick Mellos & the rest of the crew survived.

@artmathias9725

Жыл бұрын

I stood at the handrail outside of our rooms, both Senior Chief and myself puffed away at our cigars. I had a day of liberty, and he had a day of flying. Needless to say, 4 hours later, our liberty was cancelled and upon returning to our rooms, personnel were cleaning out the rooms of that flight crew, including Senior Chiefs room. The rest of the story is history.

A day with a new Mooch video is always a better day! Thanks for the insight into what happened with the RJ intercept; I saw the video but didn't have the context y'all provided. And many thanks for show the B-roll of the EP-3 incident; I'd never seen that before.

@lyndonwillms9668

Жыл бұрын

Mike! Is that you? Lindy

Though not "brown shoe" related, I have a few anecdotes of interactions with Russian Vessels. While on a Med Cruise in late Summer 1976, I was aboard the Frigate USS Jesse L Brown (FF-1089). The USA Men's Basketball Team had recently won the Gold Medal in the Summer Games. We were steaming the Med and a Russian Frigate type ship came alongside less than 100 yards off the starboard beam. They "flashed" a "Congratulations" for the USA Team win. They also dipped their Steaming Ensign as a friendly salute. Our Captain, a Mustanger, had no friendly feelings towards the Russians. When the Signalman asked the Captain if he wanted to return the Dipped Flag Salute, The Captain said, "Hell No! F$%# 'Em!" So, we kept on steaming. There were shallow Mid Med anchorages at various places around the Med where we could group up with other ships and just sit, typically overnight. We might have a swim party if time, weather and watches permitted. Other nations would also anchor there. One morning, after breakfast, we performed our usual pre-muster routine and went out onto the Fantail with our Coffee and Cigarettes. The seas were exceptionally glassy. Overnight a Russian warship had anchored about 500 yards away. While we were sitting around on our deck, we could see much of the Russian crew out on their fantail in formation doing exercises.. jumping jacks, push-ups, etc. It was a treat to see and hear someone else having to break a sweat so early in the day. In 1975, when beginning a Middle East Cruise, our ship was one of the first American Warships to transit the Suez Canal after the cleanup from the 6 Day War was completed. We anchored at Port Said overnight before the transit. There were a couple of Russian OSA Class Missile/Gunboats anchored outside the harbor. We were told they were not allowed inside the harbor. While moored there, we kept hearing small muffled explosions about every 10 to 15 minutes, all night long. We asked what that was and were told that a security guard would come out and would drop grenades into the water to deter any hostile swimmers. My rack was next to the hull below the waterline, so I could hear them through some restless sleep.

@philatwood2086

Жыл бұрын

A bit of trivia.. Do you know where the term "Brown Shoes" for Naval Aviators supposedly started? The Aviators, in the early days, flew from airfields with dirt runways. They started wearing brown shoes to better hide the dust their shoes picked up...

Love to hear your take when the Victor-class Soviet sub surfaced in front of the USS Kitty Hawk in 1984. I was aboard when it occurred-as a V4 Grape.

Ward I was on the Indy with you on WestPac 90! Crazy about all the flybys. I was on deck fixing centerline strobes when the Bear Backfire Bomber came over the ship. I’ll never forget that.

I always wondered what the procedures was for the P-3 crew after the mid-air collision. Thanks for giving me a glimpse if what it should have been.

Did watch the whole episode! Great interview. Interesting as always. Thanks!

Liked this ! I mapped some of those islands in the SCS during the 80's. Never got intercepted as the Spratley Islands were not developed yet. Earlier, flying Tacamo, we had a very good Emergency Destruction plan in case of capture or landing. High value classified material first and then sensitive equipment next. The EP3 crew did not have much time to cleanze the area during the emergency as crew was probably strapped in for impact crash. Liked this video, thank you Ward !

Ward, if your port visit to Singapore was at the end of 1984, I was with you on the Independence. I was TAD to VQ-2 flying the Whale. It was really extraordinary to see all the elaborate Christmas decorations in Singapore. Great port visit!

As a former E-2C CICO (VAW-117/CVN-65) I enjoyed my share of running TU-95 intercepts in the “Bear Box” transiting to Westpac, and so I really enjoyed this episode. One thing I’d call out on the Egypt Air comparison, is that as commercial pilots, they spoke English. I think it’s all lost in translation in the current theater as we’re not dealing with civil aviation pilots who are trained in English. I wonder how things would be different if everyone could communicate. Also, I wasn’t a fighter pilot but I did hear the stories of the rubber masks and Playboy magazines! Thanks for the memories Ward!

Thanks! I appreciate the level of detail and research that goes into your episodes. Great insight by one who has been there and done that. BZ.

@mkvv5687

Жыл бұрын

RC?

I recall hearing similar incidents happening when I did my WESTPAC deployment in 2016 with the USS John C. Stennis. I personally cannot confirm or deny these as being anything but rumor (I was on ship's crew, not squadron), but the East and South China Seas are dangerous places nowadays, especially around the Paracels and Spratleys... The PLAAF weren't the only ones trying to aggressively scare off the US Navy from the area; PLAN ships would regularly shadow the CVBG (and on occasion we would have to avoid them trying to impose themselves in front of the battlegroup's path).

@Shadowguy456234

Жыл бұрын

I suppose, this must happen with the Japanese forces as well? At least in the east china sea.

@zanaduz2018

Жыл бұрын

Likely, though I cannot comment on JMSDF's encounters with PLAN units other than what's generally available to the public. Japan has even more intimate claims in the East China Sea (they have claims in the region that China claims are their territory instead); proximity and claims undoubtedly would have an impact on how often they "bump" into Chinese units compared to US Navy encounters.

Dad flew on the RC 135 out of Shemya in the 70s before being on the KC 135s at Plattsburgh & Mildenhall, he would have loved your channel and this video immensely which is poignant since this is the 2 year anniversary of his passing. Thought I was well over being emotional about it but the video proved me wrong, thankyou for this.

I appreciated this video. I was a VP guy back in the mid-70’s at Barber’s Point, in P-3Bs. Later I was an E-3 AWACS guy in the 80s and 90s. Brought back a lot of memories. I believe Wang is pronounced “Wong” in some dialects, and to hear of a pilot named Wong Wei always sounded a bit ironic in English. Enjoyed. Thanks.

@keirfarnum6811

Жыл бұрын

“Wong Wei!” 😂

Always a nice job Ward, and Blake! A nice follow up vid would be of the possible scenarios would be if the J 11 or the E3 Rivet or both had been downed as a result? Thank You!

I wish Ward had used the radio challenge incident in which the Chinese radio operator meowed like a cat at the end of the conversation. It's out there on KZread.

This has been going on for a very long time. Before arriving at VQ-2 in Rota, Spain I can remember hearing stories of certain crews from different aircraft over the years being harassed and even shot down and losing their lives while on watch. As a young cryptologist and Aircrewman aboard an EP-3C Aries II I can tell you we were intercepted and on occasions harassed by certain Soviet Aircraft over the years and of course aircraft from other countries as well including Libya. I always felt they would toy with us knowing we were pretty much defenseless up there. I remember the VQ-1 incident or Hainan Island incident happening a few years after I returned stateside. I’m extremely grateful to be alive today especially after finding out just how many reconnaissance aircraft and Aircrewman were lost over the years.

Two things: the separation between the planes didn't look anything like 20 ft, seemed about double that, although the lens aperture can distort distances. Secondly, the new arctic latitudes now available to marine traffic due to ice melt will present a bigger challenge to the countries having territorial claims in keeping their sovereign rights intact, notably the U.S, Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland. Norway, and Denmark.

3:07 "Shenyang" actually means "Shenyang Aircraft Corporation", the company that built that Flanker.

When I lived on Kadena on Okinawa about 10 yrs ago, my F-15 Eagle buddies would take off and play chicken with the Chi-Coms over the South China Sea and be home on time to take their kids to soccer practice. Just another day at work for those guys.

@michaelharper4989

Жыл бұрын

A good friend flew f86 out of Taiwan during the Qumoy/Matsu dustup in the 1950's. He told of flying over mainland airfields watching the MIGs take off. He is near 90. Of course so am I.

That story conclusion around 16:17 is just incredible, though a small moment, I would have loved to get that kind of memory in my lifetime, I'm sure the other passengers of the aircraft you escorted that day and photobombed tell his kids that Ronald Regan was flying a jet next to him on a mission.

@frilansspion

Жыл бұрын

That was heartwarming. Especially in these times

Greetings from Singapore, have been enjoying the content you put out Ward, Cheers!

I flew in similar missions to this but never, as far as I knew, ever had anything even close to these kinds of incidents. These “Let’s go Super Pilots” are definitely scary! Plus those Chinese jet jocks look really unstable! To all those RC-135 flyers and including those in other branches, good job, and good luck !

First view! Thanks for everything you’re doing with this channel mate. Some of the most interesting and articulate content on this platform. Cheers from New Zealand

@asterixdogmatix1073

Жыл бұрын

Yep, agree 100%. fellow Kiwi here.

One result of the EP-3 Hainan incident was an expensive acceleration of the replacement of the EP-3 by the unmanned MQ-4 Triton (based on the Globalhawk) in order to replace the electronics that the Chinese obtained as a result of the security lapses by the EP-3 crew.

I took a tour of USS independence when it was in port at San Diego before it was decommissioned. It was huge and yet it's the smallest one.

Fascinating. Thank you both.

Best in the New Year Mooch . Great chat as always with Blake.

@WardCarroll

Жыл бұрын

Happy new year!

I was part of the CVA62 ship's crew from 1970-72, working in the VLA shop as a PLAT and FLOS operator. My time came to a close just as the F4's were being replaced with the F14s. I regret I never got to see the Tom Cats being launched and recovered.

😂 Guy on radio sounded like he taking a delivery order

I like that Russian KGB motto: Trust but verify! The whole library behind Blake looks very interesting. 😊

@mkvv5687

Жыл бұрын

Yes. I've remembered this one ever since Prez Reagan used their own proverb with the Soviets when negotiating arms control. Khorosho!

@antonioeltigre4465

Жыл бұрын

@@mkvv5687 I've remembered it since I saw an actor say it in the TV show Chernobyl, same as you guys..

Ward, excellent episode! Thanks again!

My uncle was assigned to P-3s in the navy. He was based in the NE and would catch a ride to Atlanta, GA and the would land a Dobbins NAS and meet one of the Planes on Sunday for a ride back to his base. He never met Chinese fighters, but on the way back north national weather service asked the Navy to have the P-3 fly through a storm in the in the Atlantic and gather some data on it. The pilot said sure be glad to, Frank said that was one harrowing Flight, Frank was not a coward so it must have been rough. While not a Chinese fighter acting a fool, A hurricane has to be a close second. The p-3s were great Aircraft and tough as nails.

Deployed onboard Nimitz, somewhere in the Med in the 80's. Doing a CIWS/Drone shoot, we are standing on the flight deck watching. A Hormone actually flew up next to the bridge, hovers, port door opens, camera with a huge lens pokes out and starts taking pictures (most likely). This goes on for about 5-10 mins at which point 2 S-3's are called in and fly right over the ship/Hormone. The lens goes back in the Hormone and the door slams shut and the Hormone turns to starboard and hauls ass away from the ship with the S-3's in trail. I could go on and on. This is unfortunately nothing new.

i approve of Blake's collection of Patrick O'Brien books on the shelf behind him.

@NickMackenzieMD

Жыл бұрын

Agree, and his six volume The Second World War by Churchill is on the shelf as well.

Ok Ward, Now you've got to travel to Melbourne Australia to watch an Aussie Rules Football game. And then to Japan to experience the Bullet Trains.

@WardCarroll

Жыл бұрын

Count me in!

I was waiting for this. Thank you.

Excellent! He's got "trust but verify" in Russian behind him.

Happy new year Ward!

@WardCarroll

Жыл бұрын

Happy new year!

Thank you for sharing your experience's with us.

I was living on the dependent (my dad was a CPO in HC 4) base in Sig when that happened. I remember that incident vividly, Libya and that happened while I was there.

The Chinese have been closely studying professional soccer tactics. This is the falling on the ground holding your ankle in pain maneuver, but in a fighter jet.

@92HazelMocha

Жыл бұрын

You have to remember the other side to this; from the Chinese perspective the US is violating their airspace and territorial waters so there's probably a large portion of the Chinese mainland angry that their government isn't doing enough to stop these violations. By claiming that the PLAAF or PLAN "made" the Americans turn around they get to placate hardliners on the mainland who would support more drastic action. Imagine the inverse, the Chinese Navy launches fighters a few miles off the coast of the US, even if it doesn't violate international law, many Americans would say something along the lines of "we should just shoot them down" despite the consequences that would follow. By doing these dangerous intercepts we'd be avoiding the much greater danger of a full scale war with a peer nation.

@peterbellwood5412

Жыл бұрын

@@92HazelMocha 👍 I believe It's called wisdom . Pete UK

@VidMoose1963

Жыл бұрын

@Ian Pederson - First, the US flies these missions in international waters. So the premise underpinning your argue is patently false.

@peekaboopeekaboo1165

Жыл бұрын

So where's the video by the Americans regarding this latest incident.

@peekaboopeekaboo1165

Жыл бұрын

@@VidMoose1963 International waters that's near to another country's territory.

I remember when this happened. The news showed a clip of stock footage of what the computer destruction should look like with these strips of plastic you were supposed to pull that set off an incendiary inside each computer. Even at the time I remember thinking that's not really possible with everyone strapped in trying to save their life. I also remember the Chinese wanting $1,000,000 for storage fees of the plane and our ambassador saying that was too much. I also remember the U.S. officials warning the Chinese not to enter or touch our aircraft and the Chinese basically laughing at how ridiculous a statement that was.

First video I've seen on this channel, pleasantly interesting, earnt a sub!

@WardCarroll

Жыл бұрын

Welcome aboard!

Someone who is "not as good as they think they are" is dangerous regardless of the situation.

these kind of events have occurred since at least 1946, all over the world, by several powers. including many with actual contact, such as the ussr/norway flanker/orion incident in the 90s, or mig 15s shooting down b 45 tornados on the border of ussr

Thanks for bringing back fond memories of my WestPac deployments in '84-85 aboard USS Okinawa, LPH-3! Shooting the moon at the Russian Bear bombers that would do low flybys over the group or at the Russian "fishing" trawlers as they would trail us for days.

I love watching this channel grow .

Good episode! I can well understand the reluctance to try ditching the EP-3. If memory serves, the most successful P-3 ditching was at Subic Bay in 1970, and even then there was one fatality when the floor failed just behind the flight station killing the Navigator. With the extra radome on the EP-3, and right in that same area of the plane, I can sure see why they would opt to land instead. As for a wheels up landing, the only classified gear that would have been destroyed is the antenna within the radome and not the signal processing gear up in the plane, and I suppose they might have been doing some advanced phased array stuff down there, but I would think export controls on components would cover the antenna array duplication pretty well. It's too bad that they didn't do a better job at destroying classified gear (I assume there are better safeguards in place now), but I support the decisions made by the crew as far as I understand the situation.

@scenepointjudge

Жыл бұрын

A VP-47 crew ditched off of Oman (I think it was Oman) back in '95 with everyone surviving. There's a few more sprinkled in over the years without loss of life. Can't speak on behalf of VQ-1 or VQ-2 crews ditching successfully or not, as I don't believe an EP-3 ever attempted to ditch.

@purplepenguin43

Жыл бұрын

yeh, with the Chinese outside pointing guns at you the only thing i can think of that they would have time to to is pop a couple of incendiary grenades (i doubt they would even have any such devices on board, so I'm mostly in the realm of fantasy here. ) and run out the door and hope the plane burns down before the Chinese can put out the fire. the whole incident as far a lost technology goes is a failure in operations planning. there's only so much stuff a guy with a hammer can smash and those aircraft are wired with tech up to the gills, it would take hours to fully destroy one with hammers and axes and even then how are you going to smash a radome that weights several thousand pounds and is covered in enough fiberglass to withstand flight ops at 400mph. if airfroce wanted to take a lesson from this, its that airforce command failed give the crew a reasonable way to destroy the technology without endangering their own lives unreasonably. i'd imagine that this incident is the reason that the blackhawk that went down getting binladen was carrying enough C4 to blow up the whole airframe, lesson learned and C4 and thermite is now a part of sensitive equipment flight bags.

@scenepointjudge

Жыл бұрын

@@purplepenguin43 yeah, you're in a fantasy world 🤣

flashback to the Hainan Island incident

I was stationed in Singapore in the early 90’s after my command transferred from SUBIC Bay in 1992. Great duty. 👍

In a similar vein, and as I remember it, I was flying with Okie Nance in VF51 off the Kitty Hawk (81 WestPac) during the first part our tour on Gonzo Station when we were briefed that we were about to be visited by some Soviet built Mays flying out of Yemen. The intel guys advised caution because they had a history of flying very low and turning into their escorts in an effort to fly them into the water. Okie figured we'd counter that by flying stepped up on their wing, which is exactly what we did when we launched on them from the alert. So,we're in position and flying slow enough so we're cocked up a bit and the May pulls straight into us in the turn to duck under and we're already low...not sure but seemed like about 500 feet. Okie pulls the airplane up into buffet to avoid the collision and expertly barrel rolls onto the other wing and we hang on. There were no further incidents with that guy during that intercept. Then we go down to Perth for a port call and before we get back to Gonzo Station after, the first F-14 Libyan shootdown occurs. So, the Mays come out again, nowhere nearly as aggressive; in fact, I thought I could see the pilot giving us head nods before he moved anything...

The good ol days when Soviet AGI's would hang out off the coast of San Diego then run through the battle group trying to force a collision. Those skippers had balls.

@LuvBorderCollies

Жыл бұрын

One of my cousins was on LA class subs. Lots of "games" were played under the surface also. "Crazy Ivan" is a real thing the Russians did if they thought they were being followed. And it was rare when a Soviet sub was not followed or actively tracked let's say.

Some enterprising AF pilot needs to carry a Winnie the Pooh mask when the Chinese intercept them.

@davepotanko5514

Жыл бұрын

Everyone in a window needs Panda heads.

@AA-xo9uw

Жыл бұрын

Chiang Kai-shek masks.

Awesome discussion! Thanks

Love your stories, Ward. Thank you:)

Is it possible to provide the RC planes with escorts or are the distances involved too great for fighters?

I lived in Beijing during the EP-3 incident in 2001 while I'm wearing my F22 jacket with the American flag lol. Give that a try. As an aerospace engineer the story within China was absolutely ludicrous.

What a marvellous channel. Thank you, guys.

@WardCarroll

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

USS John King was on that same deployment with me as a new Gunners Mate aboard!!! Singapore is everything you said. I came aboard Independence from Diego Garcia on a cod flight.

Hi Ward. How is it possible that the P3 Crew received no guidance after the collision as far as which actions were feasible to prevent any sensitive equipment to fall in the wrong hands? No communications were exchanged with the higher command before the landing was attempted? No order or guidance was given to the crew on how to safeguard the equipments on board? This appears incredible on such a sofisticate aircraft and on the amount of Coms available. Regards.

@jimhartley4701

Жыл бұрын

I have a friend who flew RC135 missions for many years. There are many many tiers of responses that crew train and drill and are tested on, again and again. And according to him there is absolutely nothing unusual about this encounter. It's actually part of the mission, to induce the intercepts and listen to the chatter and monitor the spectrum. There are linguists on board who are parsing every syllable for signs that things could go sideways. Same with the other side, of course.

@frankb8898

Жыл бұрын

@@jimhartley4701 Hi Jim. Tks on your comments. I am still surprised about the possibility that the Crew, after the collision, received no guidance on how to destroy the sensible equipment on board before they had to land in Chinese land. That they did not contacted the higher chain of command really surprise me. Regards.

@mikebaggott7802

Жыл бұрын

@@frankb8898 , They didn't need guidance as they had been trained in emergency destruction procedures on a regular basis. In an emergency, you don't have time for higher to call you and tell you what to do, you just have to do it.

@frankb8898

Жыл бұрын

@@mikebaggott7802 So now it is clearer. They did apply the emergency procedure to recover the plane but did not apply further procedure to destroy sensitive material. Tks.

@patrickbrinkmeier1858

Жыл бұрын

@@frankb8898.....they were trying to safely land the aircraft after it had been damaged in a mid air collision with a Chinese fighter jet. The U.S. Naval aircraft received massive damage in the collision. It lost an engine, the radar dome on top was ripped off which caused a hole in the top of the aircraft which led to the aircraft losing pressurization, it had extensive damage to it's left aileron which left it stuck in an up position which made the aircraft continuously roll to the left. The Chinese jet broke into pieces and the Chinese pilot was killed in the crash. That crew on the US aircraft were trying to land the aircraft from 22,000 feet despite it missing pieces...I would say the crew was amazing In their actions... The crew that wasn't flying did begin destroying and sabotaging classified electronics and computers and documents while the flight crew struggled to land it... Much like Capt Sully and the miracle on the Hudson there was no playbook for what do you do if an aircraft crashes into you at 20k feet because no one would think any aircraft would be able to survive and land.... The classified equipment would be expected to be destroyed in the crash... I was in The Marines when this happened and I remember thinking the Navy air crew were wrong for getting "captured". Then I decided to educate myself about what actually happened and I learned how great that air crew was that day. The crew in the back spent 20 minutes destroying as much as they could including pouring hot coffee on electronics and bashing on it with blunt objects while the pilots tried to land. You really shouldn't criticize because I do not believe you could have done any better then what they did. In fact, I believe a lot of pilots would have crashed that doomed aircraft.Thats probably why the Navy awarded the pilot the distinguished flying cross for his actions that day. Remember the rules pilots follow when flying and when faced with an emergency...Number one and most important is aviate....aka, fly the aircraft and control it as best as you can..Number 2 is Navigate....Aka..figure out where you are, where you are going ( like how to get there and land ) and finally it's communicate... So communication ( like calling back to base for guidance ) is the least important step.

I love your guest Blake, you guys do really well together. Always a pleasure

Oh Singapore VF-32 was there too off Indy. Boogie Street ha!

Great stories Ward, thanks again😎

Q: Do our military personnel get any (or enough) training for How to handle these situations should it happen to them? If, as (at the 30 min mark) you described several other incidents in the past, it is not infrequent, is it a part of our troops training to ensure that this sensitive equipment, not be obtained by our enemy? It is enough of a consideration that causes it to be designed to be blown up, destroyed in place, or when not possible use the sledge hammer we put on the plane just for this purpose. Should it not also be trained enough that it can be accomplished at least most of the time? I cannot judge, and I did not when I watched this unfold as it happened. But now with timelines and deconstruct years later, it seems that the crew did have time, resources, and knowledge that could have prevented this VERY damaging loss (on every level: political, international, militarily, technological, security, diplomatic) and their incarceration? I know it is easy to ask this from the office chair, rather than the cockpit, so I am only asking to further understanding of this incident happening in real ways now.

@HerbertTowers

Жыл бұрын

Simple answer. NO!

Hey Ward, What about the incident with the Australian P8 when the Chinese aircraft popped chaff RIGHT In FRONT of the Australian aircraft. Had that FODed an engine we are talking about an Act of War! Cheers from Down Under! Andrew

@ex0duzz

Жыл бұрын

Lol no. An act of war is an act of war regardless of if they go down or not. One is successful and one is not. But both are still acts of war if they are really acts of war. Which they aren't. If china wanted to take out the jet they can do so easily.

@andrewpullin4390

Жыл бұрын

@@ex0duzz The Incident did actually happen and was reported in the Australian Media as an "un-professonal Act" by China. The Chaff "missed" the Australian aircraft but had FOD damage actually occurred the aircraft had nowhere to go except down or "Chinese" territory. Since Australia is not considered a BIG fish in the area it would have been to China a "regrettable Incident" . Search the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) archives, the story was only reported a couple of months ago but happened about 18 months ago. Diplomatic "exchanges" happened but since China was "not really embargoing Australian Products" it was ignored to gain an economic advantage. Similar to the American P3 episode when the US "apologised" to China for it's "wrong doing" to get their aircrew back. It was definitely an "Act of War" as the aircraft involved would have been "fired at" by the chaff released from the Chinese Interceptor in "International Airspace". Australia is NOT currently "at war" with China (as in Hot or Cold War) but we "could be".

@ex0duzz

Жыл бұрын

@@andrewpullin4390 I am Australian. Yeah our media is always agaisnt china and making shit up, following usa like vassals, provoking china for no reason. We should stay home and mind our own business. China does not care about Australia militarily. No, its not an act of war. An act of war would be responded to. Even if china rammed the plane and knocked both down like Hainan incidents, that would also not be an act of war like last time. Just another diplomatic incident

Thanks again ,for another great video

Great episode!!!

27:16 This is why pilots will be replaced by either remote control or some fancy computer program. They refused to do the correct thing. Or at least a kill button in case of pilot/crew failure.

@clayz1

Жыл бұрын

AI will soon have Human status, like corporations.

@patrickbrinkmeier1858

Жыл бұрын

FortuneZero.....I bet you couldn't have recovered the aircraft to even land it like this crew did....Their aircraft was in a mid air collision...the crew did manage to destroy some of the sensitive equipment.

@FortuneZer0

Жыл бұрын

@@patrickbrinkmeier1858 Do I have years of training? No. So not a whole lot of money has been wasted on a crew failing to do the job. Have I failed to do the job? No. The highly trained, expensive crew failed to do the job. Have I delivered sensitive material to the enemy? No. The highly trained, expensive crew did. Is my prediction of the future making this exact scenario of a crew going rogue and providing sensitive material to the enemy extremely unlikely? Yes. The crew should feel bad about their failure and consider suicide. The best case would have been if they had skipped the step of handing the sensitive material to the enemy and instead just should have crashed the plane into the fucking sea like they were supposed to.

It's crazy to me that they can release the video and still claim the US plane acted irresponsibly. The fighter clearly is banking into the RC-135.

@sleepyjoe4529

Жыл бұрын

The US plane acted irresponsbily by flying that close to China (that's their narrative). The average Joe or Zhang doesn't understand the footage, only the narrative being told.

@HTV-2_Hypersonic_Glide_Vehicle

Жыл бұрын

Yet they will still claim the U.S. is at fault if they see that the PLA instigated the situation.

@JoshuaC923

Жыл бұрын

I don't think it's crazy, that's just what they will claim and do, try to intimidate others but not being good enough

@HTV-2_Hypersonic_Glide_Vehicle

Жыл бұрын

@@JoshuaC923 I think as time goes on they might get better finding devious ways to make it look more and more like the U.S. instigates a situation. Thankfully though this was not one of those occurrences.

@JoshuaC923

Жыл бұрын

@@HTV-2_Hypersonic_Glide_Vehicle they will for sure

Singapore was my 3rd Liberty Port on the LHA-3 USS Bellow Woods. My Niece and her Husband US Navy just returned last year from a 2 year duty station PS they knew or have met your guest. Her baby girl was born there Lived on the old British then New Zealand naval base

Hey Ward, I just wanted to say that I know nothing in general about the Military, but I truly enjoy watching your videos. They give me a sense of what has transposed and what is currently being done in our armed forces. I truly appreciate your work. Keep it up. Love your guitars and your choice in music btw😁

@neglectfulsausage7689

Жыл бұрын

watching a grown A-- man play with models is alwys entertainng

Guard duty on a rock in the middle of the ocean. Yeah ,that sounds fun. 😒

@stupidburp

Жыл бұрын

A tropical rock though. Unfold a lawn chair and relax in the sun. Maybe not so bad.

Isn't it true the artificial islands they been making are starting to fall apart? I know I heard they used cheap concrete or something that can't stand up to the salt water or something. The runways at the airfields are falling apart too

@mage3690

Жыл бұрын

I wouldn't doubt it. Salt water doesn't like anything man-made, and while concrete is very good if you keep it stable, I could easily see the sea acting like the world's largest and most patient sledgehammer. Reinforced concrete exists, and has been around for a while, but the truly good stuff is a very recent development. Also, China has had a very long problem of having the money and manpower to build a thing, then they move their construction crew onto the next project and never quite getting around to budgeting for maintenance.

@antonioeltigre4465

Жыл бұрын

If you have a source for this I'd like to see it. Otherwise pure speculation probably based on Chinese stereotypes 🤡

@stupidburp

Жыл бұрын

They used cheap desert sand as land reclamation for some of them. This is inferior to coral sand because it doesn’t stick around as long. The sea tends to take it away. But they can just dump more cheap sand again.

@antonioeltigre4465

Жыл бұрын

@@stupidburp Source for that information please....

@michaelharper4989

Жыл бұрын

@@stupidburp Hopefully they used beach sand. Loaded with salt. FloriDoH! has had problems with that.

Yes the paracels to the south of hainan are hotly disputed there is a reef and atol to the north of hainan the dongsha Islands / pratas reef that has a garison of taiwanese troops and an existing airfield, watch for this contested spec to blow.

That was incredible footage ...I’ve only seen footage like that a handful f times.....

Another Absolutely Engrossing Topic and Session with Blake Herzinger, Ward! Thanks so much!

Hi Ward, I am from Singapore. I enjoy watching your very informative videos and currently learning how to fly the Cat on DCS 😅 I am very pleased to learn you visited our country when you were still in the US Navy. Hopefully some day you can visit again, especially to see our iconic Marina Bay Sands Integrated Resort. Singapore is also very concerned about the security situation in the South China Sea and our government’s position is that it wants all parties involved in disputes to settle them amicably and in accordance to international law.

Damn - lived in Singapore for 3 years. Forgot about the "break" you get in January !

Great episode thank you Sir 👍😁

There is something positive about recent Chinese aggression. It shows that you can’t trust anymore Dictatorships. Stop being nice and doing trades with them. Treat them for what they are.

@bluetopguitar1104

Жыл бұрын

The American consumer needs to stop buying everything Chinese.

@Khronogi

Жыл бұрын

@@bluetopguitar1104 american companies need to stop producing everything in china. Which means we in America need to get manufacturing back, which means american corporations need to pay their people more money for everyone to afford all this american made gear, rather than gouging prices anytime a wage goes up to squeeze the extra money out of the consumer.

@stupidburp

Жыл бұрын

Increase tariffs on imports from hostile authoritarian countries. Even doubling the current tariff from 15% to 30% would be enough to shift the vast majority of manufacturing to other countries. Businesses and consumers will rarely shift product sources until it hits the bottom line.

@macfiona4545

Жыл бұрын

@@stupidburp tariffs won’t be effective because the cost will be pushed down to consumer eventually, which indirectly will increase the inflation.

@stupidburp

Жыл бұрын

Cost will get pushed to consumers temporarily but competitive pressure will drive sourcing elsewhere to undercut on consumer prices. Over time most or all manufacturers will move elsewhere because to match prices to competitors that moved it will cut into profits unless they also move.

How would we feel if China sent their carrier fleet to Cuba? They have already supplied much of the infrastructure there - buses,cars, utilities, etc. What if the Chinese version of the Rivet Joint is seen to take off from Cuba and fly near Key West, or Cape Kennedy in 'international waters'?

@jasonirwin4631

Жыл бұрын

we would calmly and professionally preform a intercept. the Russians regularly fly bombers over to Alaska and they still fly missions to us aircraft carriers. the issues here isn't the Chinese intercept isn't them preforming the intercept its the lack of caution and professionalism.

@Arturo-lapaz

Жыл бұрын

Only a question of time.

@92HazelMocha

Жыл бұрын

Half the country would call for us to bomb bejing.

@Arturo-lapaz

Жыл бұрын

@@92HazelMocha your comment/reply was deleted

@92HazelMocha

Жыл бұрын

@@Arturo-lapaz probably got flagged, essentially I said the American people would loudly call for war.

You left out the most important detail from the radio communication between the Chinese and the P-8 crew: "MEOW!"

Watch any of the Red Chinese action movies featuring their military and it's easy to see their mindset. I read Osborne's book back in the day. Not a lot of good options....interestingly an EP-3 from Pt. Mugu flew into Moffett around that time. Blake's description of the Helix fly-by...that sounds to me like a friendly thing. Any chance that could have been misconstrued?

I think think the fear of incidental contact is very real. If the Chinese fly like they drive an automobile there may be justification for this real concern. I'm just saying.

@shibasurfing

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. In the event of a collision they would probably say “well, our aircraft was hit on the wing, not the front, so it must be the fault of the other aircraft”. Newsflash. Aviation rules are different from how you drive a car.

@thereissomecoolstuff

Жыл бұрын

@@shibasurfing Really? Thank you captain obvious. If there is a collision the aggressor will be blamed...The Chinese already are on record asking the U.S. to leave the area. It will be an international incident and serious..

@shibasurfing

Жыл бұрын

@@thereissomecoolstuff I’m confused by your response. In China there is a different standard of who is at fault in an auto accident. The standard is, if your front is damaged, you’re at fault. Regardless of other things like who was acting dangerously. So I am referring to that. Are you saying that China has a right to do these things?

@thereissomecoolstuff

Жыл бұрын

@@shibasurfing I'm saying when planes start flying to close over territory's than fault doesn't matter when there is contact. The sovereign country claims foul and blames the invaders. I wasn't aware of Chinese traffic laws. Very interesting. Thank you.

@shibasurfing

Жыл бұрын

@@thereissomecoolstuff Gotcha. I don't exactly agree with you about the sovereignty issue but I appreciate your genuine response. I doubt either of us would convince the other, so I will just say be well fellow human.

We have made a horrible mistake by doing business with China.