Charlemagne’s letter to Offa is akin to trying to peacefully vassalaze a minor but realizing you need 190 but only have 187 relations lol

@TheNinjaDwarfBiker

2 жыл бұрын

eu4 references in the wild, epic

Wow, he was incredibly respectful of his smaller neighbor king.

@si4632

4 жыл бұрын

@John Ashtonebill gates absolute twaddle🤣

@TenOrbital

4 жыл бұрын

Probably a monk or priest composed the letter, he just put his mark on it.

@TenOrbital

4 жыл бұрын

The literary work and culture of the time was monpolised by the clergy. He (or his minister, who was also a clergyman) would have told the scribe the business he wanted the letter to cover, but a cleric would have composed the letter in the pious style of the time. Charlemagne only became literate in Latin and Frankish late in life.

@ettie102

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, Offa was essentially the Charlemagne of England at the time.

@BeedrillYanyan

3 жыл бұрын

@@ettie102 England is very small compared to Charlemagne's domain, which encompassed most of Western Europe.

“The pilgrims can go free of molestation” That’s so kind

The reverence for Christ and devoutness of these early European monarchs is truly amazing.

@TenOrbital

4 жыл бұрын

His letters would have been composed and written by priests and monks. He would have just signed them.

@heringebatse814

4 жыл бұрын

@@henriklarsson5221 They were being politically correct in the way they wrote this letter :)

@skubber23

3 жыл бұрын

@@henriklarsson5221 Thank god for "political correctness" then.

@subutaynoyan5372

3 жыл бұрын

It's just customary. A king had to be ''pious'' in those times to ensure legitimacy for his actions.

What were the black stones referring too, palantiri perhaps?

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

They certainly seem like Palantiri

@anvilbrunner.2013

5 жыл бұрын

Bingo!

@mrmarmellow563

4 жыл бұрын

@@VoicesofthePast Most Joyful Good to you' On Such the first Emminent sitting of the and the Original An EU Trade Minastry where the scribes show their Hidden Power of Devicing this Waffle of Nod !! 'Our Lord was form HERE ON; In det to whoever paid his Quill Master& Maker of Holy Wit't [,β] #{•;&>

@ripme6616

4 жыл бұрын

M R MaMellow 😂

@adammac6386

4 жыл бұрын

Obsidian maybe?

Love this channel, it helps bring history to life. Keep it up please =)

This series of videos is wonderful. Thank you.

For those wondering, the Black Stones are referring to Lava Rock from the Rhine I believe.

These primary sources give us a fascinating glimpse of medieval life and the thoughts of one the greatest rulers of the time. I was amazed at the overwhelming piety expressed by Charlemagne. It so contrasts with the intrigues and corruption of later kings and popes. Mahalo🌺😎

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

They are super interesting. Much more on the way

@anvilbrunner.2013

5 жыл бұрын

@@VoicesofthePast As pious as any Mafia Don.

@benhail3624

Жыл бұрын

What century did they noticably lose piety?

More of Offa please

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

Much more on the way. One of my favourite kings .

@wood7206

5 жыл бұрын

one of the greatest kings

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

Oh for sure@@wood7206

@ohevshalomel

4 жыл бұрын

I like hearing about those Anglo-Saxon kings, too. It's especially interesting to hear something written by one.

Reads like an epistle from the Bible it's self. Enjoy watching these " VOICES OF THE PAST" cameos. Especially after a full length video on the " same" subject.👍

@anvilbrunner.2013

5 жыл бұрын

Reads like a Sicilian protection racketeers manifesto. Our own Royal family, refer to themselves as The Firm. Plus ce change'

A belt and hunnish sword! Sweet! Thank Charles!

Presumably written in Latin? And church latin of the time?

@ripme6616

4 жыл бұрын

Gary Walker Diplomacy..rather

That was great.

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

The voice is much better now. Much more understandable

Wholesome

Cool! You just unearthed a mystery! What were the black stones and why were they important?

I think it is remarkable that this letter has survived ! But I do wonder what the black stone was ?

Really interesting thank you Im in love with the Ibn Rusta journeys thanks to you as I had not heard of him before

A new narrator : )

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

Yep. Got my brother to do some for me

Charlemagne was one of my ancestors, so this is really something neat to "hear" his voice. (I know, everyone says they're descended from him, but we have the genealogical research to back it up in our family. I'm not bragging. I'm descended from Charlemagne and also thousands of peasants no one ever heard of.)

@christianfreedom-seeker934

4 жыл бұрын

You were probably descended from a servant (perhaps a trusted servant) of his household. Truth is the only true descendents of Charlemagne are Royals and high ranking OLD noble families.

@cgavin1

4 жыл бұрын

Basically, everyone alive in the ninth century who left descendants is the ancestor of every living European today, including Charlemagne, Drogo, Pippin and Hugh.

@rajiveharvani5502

4 жыл бұрын

Most white people in Europe are indirectly linked to Charlemange. If your linked to particular Nobel family that's rare

@cgavin1

4 жыл бұрын

@@rajiveharvani5502 Its worth stating the obvious too: genealogy is bunk. Every 3rd generation there's a 25% chance the man you call father isn't your real father. False paternity means nobody can say for certain that their family tree isn't fiction. 😂

@ripme6616

4 жыл бұрын

wozzlepop 😂 but what about my father's barber

Where did you find this?

What exactly were the black stones he's referring to?

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

Some sort of trade between the two courts. I imagine the cloaks are something to do with wool, it being a major export from England for much of the medieval period. The trade reminds me of something from the game Civilisation if I'm honest..

@alexboote6235

5 жыл бұрын

I read a book about Offa of Mercia and it said that the black stones most likely referred to mill stones from the Rhine land. They found evidence that a large water mill was constructed at Tamworth, Offa's main estate, and have assumed that Offa requested these stones speaificly from the Rhine

@anvilbrunner.2013

5 жыл бұрын

I suspect you already have an inclination, as you had noticed that part & mentioned it. The black stones are fragments of 'The Black Stone.' Which was a cube & sacred to old world Kingdoms & Empires from the beginning. Roman senate administry affairs often mentioned oaths taken on the Black Stone. A fragment of it is laid, in the eastern corner of the Kaaba. Muslims revere the Black Stone, we might conclude that they worship it. The qibla direction of prostration to a cube shaped idol. Offa enquirered about the fragments of it. Charlemeigne scoffs.

@anvilbrunner.2013

5 жыл бұрын

@@VoicesofthePast Charlemeigne was a keen collector of mighty relics. The Black stones are a subject to themselves. Deeply ingrained into the tapestry of civilisation. The whole history of the Kaaba might interest you. Offa's interest in the Black stones is most interesting too.

@SasukeUchiha-pv4xn

5 жыл бұрын

@@anvilbrunner.2013 As a Muslim I can assure you that the black stone (hajrae aswad) is not worshiped as Muslims worship no one else other than Allah and the was taken from jannah (heaven) to earth and was transparent and it went black as kissing it would absorb your sins thus making it darker , and as for our qiblah it is oriented towards the kabbah and not the stone

Big Karl over here being one of the few moral and holy kings

Nobody is reading this letter in context. That includes comments here but also the entire academic world. Most especially we need to look at the changes to the coinages (793) and the involvement of Alcuin (letter to Colcu 790). Basically, Charlemagne set out to construct a pan-European currency in 789 and Offa refused to sign up. Led to a hard Brexit during c. 790-792. The resolution in 793 was two separate currencies. Charlemagne’s denier was half an imperial Roman denarius. Offa’s penny was half a dirhem. Want more facts? : youtube “A History of Troy Weight” Episode Six

As Charlemagne offered to help with the transport of the black stones they are most likely quite large and heavy. Maybe something like the blue-black limestone that was used not much later in history for the making of Tournai fonts. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tournai_font

Oh my, such piety...

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

So over the top, but then again for the most part religion was the absolute world view of these people.

@snowdog03

5 жыл бұрын

Christendom was a very different civilization than the atheist and socialist EU.

@RafaelCosta-oi3be

4 жыл бұрын

@@VoicesofthePast It's not different from any other period. If you can't see how the progressive narrative pervades modern political speeches like a cult, you're clearly not paying attention.

@iparipaitegianiparipaitegi4643

3 жыл бұрын

@@snowdog03. Church attendance is lower in England than in the EU

Seems like Charlemagne respected offa. What’s the back story? He kept calling him brother.

@RonJohn63

4 жыл бұрын

As Christians, they were both "brothers in Christ". The whole thing is in "diplo-speak": say what good friends and brothers you are, with the implied threat that if you act like a jerk towards my people in your country, I'll act like a jerk towards yours.

@simonbagel

3 жыл бұрын

@@RonJohn63 like when Putin calls the EU and US partners.

Weren’t letters also exchanged between Charlemagne and Harun Al-Rasheed? Those should be interesting.

Carlos Magno.

Excellent. Now add an explanation video with context. I got lost.

He made him an Offa he could refuse.

😂🤣 letter of reply: would you kindly get a dog up you

Re black stones , I had a look-see on the Internet , and there is some articles that suggesting they were black marble roman columns . But if this is true or no , I have no idea !

@roodborstkalf9664

4 жыл бұрын

Most likely mill stones made from vulcanic depositions in the Eiffel.

Harun al-Rashid over in Baghdad: *"Cute."*

@Powersnufkin

5 жыл бұрын

Mongol Traders enters the chat.

@Powersnufkin

5 жыл бұрын

@Sturgeon You are saying central asian people didnt exist in year 800?

@yusuffulat6954

4 жыл бұрын

@@Powersnufkin But they were no where near as powerful as the Mongol conglomerate of the 13th and 14th centuries.

@Powersnufkin

4 жыл бұрын

@@yusuffulat6954 Gokturks. Check them out.

@yusuffulat6954

4 жыл бұрын

@@Powersnufkin The Gokturks were not as Geo-politically influential as the Mongols. And the Tang Chinese empire conquered them I am pretty sure. None of the Steppe nomads were a threat to the frontiers of the Abbasids after at least the battle of Talas in 751.

Could anyone please tell me the name of the statue shown at 0:31?

@FullMonterey

4 жыл бұрын

@Herbert Munson Why do you say that?

@bjrnification

4 жыл бұрын

Charlemagne et ses Leudes Is the name.

Randomly throws baldurs death in there 💀

19 Saxons disliked the video

Hmm... on 1:15, the "Catholic faith" is mentioned, 260 years before the Great Schism. I know the divide certainly didn't just suddenly happen in the 11th century, but still, the term such as "Catholic faith" sounds a bit out of place for 796 AD, no? Could it be that this letter is not *the* original, but an 'updated' version of the later middle ages? I mean, 'updates' and forgeries did often happen during history.

Please add subtitles for future videos

@ripme6616

4 жыл бұрын

Scott W there's always one

You can tell how powerful Mercia was because even Charlemagne respected him as an equal great Christian ruler.

Where is the letter anyone ?

Black stones? Curious. Offa @ Charlamagne were two giants of their age. Charlamagne obviously had the larger territories.

What were the black stones for, kids?

What is the original language is this in?

Charlemagne is my guy

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

Unless you're a Saxon

@jonahwiegand827

5 жыл бұрын

@@MrVaffel Big difference between globalization and empire my dude. Charlemagne subjugated many people under the Franks. The early HRE was a Frankish empire through and through.

@roderickclerk5904

5 жыл бұрын

@@MrVaffel comparing Saxons and Christians is apples and oranges. One is a ethnicity and the other is a faith.

@Donnyawb

5 жыл бұрын

@@roderickclerk5904 Don't try to reason with the guy. He's one of these internet pagans who is still crying about losing his heathen religion.

@roderickclerk5904

5 жыл бұрын

@@Donnyawb lol

Apostolic authority Very important as the chalcedonian church was directly descended from the apostles teachings The western church fell into moral ruin after the great schism

They had WAY too much time to craft these things back then.

@RonJohn63

4 жыл бұрын

Diplomacy Speak is as old as civilization, and probably older.

Anglish.

Charles could read and write?

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

Perhaps. Though equally he could've given a priest the general gist of what he wanted to say and they worded it for him.

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

Offa for example almost certainly could not write. He was primarily a warlord.

Holy church? Holy Shit!

Snarky tone with insidious background music ⚠️

Did King Offa make his gold dinar because he was influenced himself by Muslim religion, or were that coins only for diplomatic purposes or international commerce? They're very similar to Abbasid Caliphate's ones. Guess if they were internal currency in the Kingdom of Mercia.

@krushnaji4940

Жыл бұрын

Dinar was old Roman currency.

Is that Charlamagne the 1st?

@cgavin1

4 жыл бұрын

The very same genocidal psychopath.

@poki580

4 жыл бұрын

the only

@safeysmith6720

3 жыл бұрын

There was only one Charlemagne my friend.

I think that "piety", and "episcopal" were mispronounced. And "intercessions" was misread. Also, "Augustine" was pronounced in the American not English fashion. I am a big fan of this channel, but you may need a better understanding of ecclesiastical topics.

@nemesislooms6315

4 жыл бұрын

I have noticed that in a lot of these videos, excellent as they are. I was somewhat thrown by a description of Nero as being, amongst other things, 'mallow-dorus'. It took a second to realise he meant 'malodorous'.

Charles the butcher...

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

Pretty much, just like every other ruler with the title 'The Great'

@rexmonte1683

4 жыл бұрын

Cry harder pagan

Wow Charlemagne was a bore!

I understand that the letter was likely composed by diplomats aa scholars and not the king; who likely gave the general gist to them to compose. But it's shocking how a king such as Charlemagne can be so pious and righteous and concerned with justice yet also commit genocide. Not interested in armchair theologian snipes about how faith is all a sham. Charlemagne was genuinely sincere in his Christian faith and personally interested in goodness, justice and order yet he seemed ok with the slaughter of women and children in the lowlands.

@ianlilley2577

4 жыл бұрын

Were the lowlands pagan?

@NR-rv8rz

4 жыл бұрын

@@ianlilley2577 Yeah they were stubborn parts of what is Holland and Denmark today. He conquered and converted them and they kept rebelling so he eventually just erased their populations. Pagan or not, he had a pretty nativist concept that seemed to hold that if you weren't Christian then you weren't human.

@ianlilley2577

4 жыл бұрын

@@NR-rv8rz sounds like it was in compliance with the morals of his age. Unlike say Genghis Khan who raped and murdered all of China, Russia and the entirety of the Middle east and almost Europe, out of greed. Charlemagne did so from the sounds of it after constantly being raided and rebelled against which plenty of people even today may understand. Vs Genghis Khan who historians love it seems dispite having truly evil intentions from the start.

@cgavin1

4 жыл бұрын

He was Christian. When has there ever been a Christian ruler without bloody hands?

@ianlilley2577

4 жыл бұрын

@@cgavin1 When has there ever been a Ruler whose decisions haven't gotten at least one person killed?

First at last!

nice one but due my past playing time with medieval total war viking invasion i HATE Offa an the Mercians they always stack a lot of fu..king armies full of militians and they where truly annoying ;)

@VoicesofthePast

5 жыл бұрын

That sounds like the Mercians alright!

@matteofumagalli3918

5 жыл бұрын

@sum body yes but i still prefer medieval and medieval 2 im an old school guy

@somebloke13

4 жыл бұрын

Oi! I'm a Mercian, so watch yer language! 😎

A little too sassy I think you should take some time away from Roman readings😂🤣

@VoicesofthePast

4 жыл бұрын

?