Original caps were thicker, I’ve always wondered that and figured they would be. Today, I’m sure the manufacturers of caps don’t care one iota about reliability and make the caps as thin as possible to save metal for the bottom line.

@marcroche9324

4 жыл бұрын

I have a tin of 'waterproof' caps from the 1970s and the metal is much thicker than the modern-day Remington's and CCI. I agree about your comment regarding poor quality thin caps from the manufacturer it's almost as if there is a concerted effort by manufacturers to make black powder guns not very reliable.

You are correct about the copper of modern caps being too thin. I like to preload and swap cylinders to reload, so have never tried Slickshot cones (it would mean buying a set for each of my many extra cylinders). What I have done successfully with my Colt repros (all Pietta) is to install cap rakes. I designed my own, which involves drilling and tapping a screw hole on the left side of the front of the hammer channel and installing an Allen set-screw. This blocks access to the hammer channel for the cap fragments and the rotation of the cylinder directs the cap fragments through the exit channel in the right side of the recoil shield. To do this the left side of the hammer must be milled to gain clearance for the Allen screw. (Others have made cap rakes centrally positioned and cut a corresponding recess in the hammer to allow the hammer to clear the central pin.) In one of my 1860 Piettas I also filed the face of the hammer to hit the top of the cap asymmetrically, causing the cap to blow out below the level of the hammer channel, and thus falls out through the cap exit channel on the right side of the recoil shield as Colt intended it to do. The only problem with both of my designs is that they eliminate the safety notch to receive the between-chambers safety pin on the cylinders. But none of my half-dozen Pietta repros have had a single cap jam since I installed those cap rakes - and the single 1860 with the reconfigured hammer face has had no cap jams, either. (Interestingly, my only original 1860 Colt Army very seldom experiences cap jams with the Remington caps, even though, of course, I have not modified it in any way.). If you are interested, let me know and I'll send you photos of my cap rakes.

👍👍

This is very interesting. I have only used RWS 1075 and have zero cap jams so far. But I've fired less than a dozen cylinders so it may well happen still. I have a Pietta 1851 Navy

Hello Duke. Here in France, we find the brand RWS and the primers seem thicker than the CCI and Remington. It will require that I measure a copy caliper in inch. Merci pour cette vidéo.

@marcroche9324

4 жыл бұрын

RWS are superior. I found an old sporting goods shop near by and bought what they had on the shelf. They no longer stock them...shoot!

I don't believe I've had a single cap-jam in the last few years since installing Slixshots on my Piettas. I remember quite a few over the decades with factory nipples. Good info on the difference between (at least one brand) of historic cap and modern ones!

@jason60chev

Жыл бұрын

I've had several with my Uberti 1849 Pocket w/Slixes installed.....just over the past couple of weeks.

Excellent comments. I recently got back into shooting with these crappy caps that they sell now. Back in the 70s percussion caps were made of thicker metal and you rarely had this cap sucking problem.

@dennisgorse2833

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks I used a 1851 from 1954 to 1958 for small game and varmints and never had any problems with caps pistol was original and was well used and cared for I still have this pistol even though I gave up all other arms years ago every now and then I take and load shoot and clean just to remember and preserve my relationship with being an American and insuring this pistol continues as long as this great nation endures.

@historyandhorseplaying7374

2 жыл бұрын

@@dennisgorse2833 Really, your original never had a cap jam? How do the caps of today compare with those?

Hello Duke. I have an original tin of caps here and yes, they are much more substantial and thicker. I am going to start making my own, due to not being able to find new ones because (insert your theory here). But yes, these originals are much thicker. In fact, good luck trying to pinch one. I will make dies and things to make them. I hope to get to the project this year, although I have so many things I have to do beforehand. I would advise others, that the cap making tools available now are not quite up to par. They will make an emergency cap out of thin soda can, but that is all. My intention is to tool up to make fully historical caps. Once I get it all lined out and it's working correctly, I'll send some photos.

@historyandhorseplaying7374

2 жыл бұрын

How is your progress coming? I believe that probably, the most significant criteria is the mass of the old caps compared to modern ones (also known as weight). It might be possible to “heavy up” the modern caps by perhaps dabbing them on the sides with epoxy or glue or some other liquid substance that will harden and offer no obstruction to the cap usage itself, but increase the mass (weight) of the cap.

It's interesting that way back when probably 30 years ago the two I used were dynamit nobel vorderlader zundhutchen and some brass caps from navy arms. The brass ones didn't split and stuck, and the other worked great but I haven't seen them anyplace lately. So this game has been going on for a while.

Excellent info my friend. Thanks for the history lesson.

Good find. Definitely need to figure something. Still love my colts.

Have you ever installed #11 caps on any of your revolvers? I ordered mine from Track of the wolf and have sense installed them on ALL of my revolvers. Solved a lot of issues.

Thanks for the information.

I have 5 Uberti’s and one pietta. I never replaced the nipples. I reshape them for fit using #10 CCI caps. Also it’s not hard to make a heavier main spring. That holds the caps on the nipples until they are advanced to fall out on colt models. I agree the flash hole is too large in new factory nipples. But the main spring in four original colts is almost double the thickness of newer reproduction guns. I have made new main springs from .068” thick 1095 spring steel. Cut and shape, bend close and heat to cherry red then quench in oil. Polish bright and heat again to violet blue and quench in oil again. It’s perfect spring.

@stevebarzee7340

3 жыл бұрын

The original colts I measured were a pair of ‘49 pocket this week and 1860 army and 1851 navy. They all had mainsprings with a heavier spring by almost 50% weight. Faster lock time too. My new mainsprings slam the caps for more reliable ignition.

@historyandhorseplaying7374

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevebarzee7340 How do your mainsprings do? I have an 1851 Navy that I’d like to turn into an (almost) completely reliable gun, as the originals apparently were.

Today’s caps are also much harder than they used to be in the 1800s.

Good video Duke

Cap and ball channel has a pretty good video on a non jamming revolver with gunsmith modifications which seemed legit..theres another video of a guy putting 2 mainsprings on an 1849 uberti to stop blowback

Hi. I found since the cap shortage that the tap a cap #10 using soda can except slide 2 pieces together in the slot with unpainted side face down and using a rubber or plastic mallet and knock out a thicker cap that tends not to fragment nearly as bad as 1 piece of aluminum can or I found using copper sheet double the normal guage works good as well but cans are cheaper and much easier to come by. Then ofcourse defang the hammer and if necessary switch out to slickshot nipples

Excellent video as always. I have a tin of old (1920?) caps and some RWS I’ll try to measure and report back. My Pietta revolvers don’t have a bad problem (maybe one jam per 20 shots)

@historyandhorseplaying7374

2 жыл бұрын

you are very fortunate, my Pietta 1851 Navy in .44 jams literally every other shot, with no modifications.

Duke, Been working on a punch and die to do just that. Its just the last few months at work has been a real bear. But as it will be cooling down soon here in AZ, I hope to get back on the Cap die project as I call it soon. I will post my results soon as I can. It's loosely based on the old Tap-a-cap. Oh and I am using copper roof flashing as my material.

@historyandhorseplaying7374

2 жыл бұрын

How’s it coming?

I have a cap making tool. It works ok on uberti guns when made out of soda cans and a single cap gun cap. the back of the cap often blows out but the fragments are to small to jam anything up for me. If I can find some copper of the right thickness I will see if I can make you some caps to try. I don't mess around with any of the priming compounds as i do not trust myself with that level of chemistry. The data for the aluminum caps is .4 grn. in wight, outside diameter of .220, inside diameter of .160, and metal thickness of .005. not sure if my cap maker will work with thicker metal but i will try it.

@KossoffFan

4 жыл бұрын

I was just thinking as I was listening to this that it sounds like getting a cap maker and using soda cans is the way to go. Where did you get your cap maker?

@WilliamHorsley1962

2 жыл бұрын

Double up the soda cans when you punch out a cap. Make sure the unpainted inside of can is facing down and fill half way with compound then a 50/50 mix of acetone and Ducco cement and pack down with a stick match or wooden $1 store skewers 5 minutes after 1 drop of mix has been applied then let sit for 24 hrs and you have caps that won't have a bunch of compond in cap holder and that is a waste of compond

viz = 'more info' or 'to wit' or 'see more'. Essentially it says that there is a further explanation to follow.

I seen a video of using small pistol primers with a peace of 1/4 plastic tubing instead of black powder caps inside dia. of tubing .170 fitted over nipples with primers

The old west bullet sling as seen with Roy Rogers and others was/is rooted in an attempt to avoid caps binding the actions, Lots of folks wonder why Roy would fire, throw his hand and revolver bck over his shoulder and then sling forward as if trying to throw his bullets. He was clearing any potential jams -- BUT old lore dies slowly andI see folks on the old westerns doing that with cartridge guns! lol

Finally got my Pietta 1851 back together after working on since I got it. Just trying to make sure it would work using everybody's ideas on stopping cap jams. Results are 36 shots, 1 cap jam( #34). Not too bad for someone just learning to use files and stones.

@historyandhorseplaying7374

2 жыл бұрын

I too have a Pietta 1851 (.44), can you please describe what modifications you have made?

It seemed that back in the 80's it wasn't as much of a problem

Cheaper to go thinner, boils down to money like everything else

I dig ur hat

Makes me wonder how difficult it would be to start making one's own caps.

@crumply5959

3 жыл бұрын

I just use a .22 blank u get from home depot and cut off until i have only the primer and a a .20 inch in length skirt. Then i squeeze the brass until it fits snug on my nipples. No cap jams but sometimes i get misfires where the cap goes off but not the powder. Also its harder to remove the spent caps, youll need to either remove the cylinder or use a knife to flick it off but hey i got a cheap and reliable source of caps and ive never had a cap jam.

Maybe try treating your caps with some kind of coating so that they don't burst into pieces? I don't know, just an idea to try.

Would cant the revolver when firing help with this issue, IE cap wouldn’t fall down into the action? 45 degree cant toward your body

The mainspring has nothing to do with timing, FYI.

This sounds strange maybe risky. How about stack a number 11 over the smaller Remington number 10? Don't forget your shooting glasses and gloves.

@DukeFrazierProductions

2 жыл бұрын

That wouldn't work as they are the same internal diameter, the 11 is just longer which is why it doesn't seat as well.

Concerning aftermarket nipples on 36 cal Uberti's. My dial calipers show the stock nipples being: Base width.292 Base height .194 Base to end of cone height .290 Total height.498 average with variation up to .005 Cone height .190 Tread .205/196 #12 .114 length Track of the wolf specs. are .211/189 outer thread/inner thread after inserting into a cylinder the original unused dimensions are Track of the wolf PCC-P .215/.196. Uberti .206/.196 #12-28 tap .219/.196 Track of the wolf has a PCC-S that is too large (I was not warned of this). Cone length: 0.300" Thread journal length: 0.200" Overall length: 0.500" Diameter of base: 0.305" Also a PTC-PS which is correct except for the cone length is too short. For the 1862 pocket the cone length is a few thousandths to long. Cone length: 0.285" Thread journal length: 0.200" Overall length: 0.485" Diameter of base: 0.290" It would be nice to get the dimensions for the Treso nipples #11-50-166 and #11-50-196

Has anyone messaged the cap companies about this?

From my understanding the caps were closer to tin foil