Thank you, I learned a new concept: benevolent vs malevolent violence with examples. Uncle Rich is a great guest.

The photo for this video is amazing😂😂😂

@ConversationswithaCalvinist

2 ай бұрын

Thanks bro!

I have had a passivist tell me that he wouldn't even use violence to protect his own children

@RalphReagan

2 ай бұрын

Then he is worthless

@landonmiller338

2 ай бұрын

Oh yes! I would've argued that when I was Mennonite.

@PeteJab

2 ай бұрын

He’s not a man. By nature, a father instinctively puts himself in harms way between the threat and his family. So, he might say that but if he’s a real man, he’d do something about it.

You got me curious about this Mike guy that both of you are scared of. Loved the topic. Thanks.

@richardrhoden3596

2 ай бұрын

We’re not scared of him. But, we know he’s not an easy win either. Lol

@mattcy1052

2 ай бұрын

@@richardrhoden3596 Just kidding, but whoever he is, his family will be proud of him.

Keith, you HAVE to make a short from your “squeeze him like a python” at 1:35:00 ish. YOUR FACE!!!! Awesome! This was a fantastic video and I’ll rewatch and take notes. God bless

Rich’s point on Piper’s comments was great. It was the best take I’ve heard on the situation!

@richardrhoden3596

2 ай бұрын

Thanks man, I thought folks might find that an odd take, lol

I loved this episode. I appreciate both of you.

Thanks Uncle Rich!

Great topic! Can't wait to listen to yours and Rich's take. Really loving the variety of topics you guys are discussing, too!

@ConversationswithaCalvinist

2 ай бұрын

Awesome! Thank you!

You guys are spot on and presented the arguments very clearly. Great job, gents.

Agree 100%. Love your neighbor as yourself. We should all be sheepdogs in my opinion.

Yay! More Uncle Rich!

Uncle Rich is my favorite guest

@richardrhoden3596

2 ай бұрын

That’s very kind of you to say. 🙂

Without watching. The answer is yes.

A must read book on this subject is, "On Resistance to Evil by Force" by Ivan Alexandrovich Ilyin, he completely takes apart Tolstoy's pacifism.

@perilousrange

2 ай бұрын

The Magdeburg Confession may be of interest to you.

@4godisholy

2 ай бұрын

Thanks, I will look into it.

Yes. A few great examples: 1 Kings 18:40 John 2:15

The denominations do water-based ballistics training

@shawngillogly6873

2 ай бұрын

As to 51:00: I've always said this. If it's a random Joe breaking in, they get one warning while I release the safety. After, it's on them. OTOH, if it's the State at the door arresting us because we're believers? Then we sing Psalms and rejoice we're worthy to suffer for the Name. Because filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ is a command. We don't look for persecution. But we don't shirk it either.

The denominations play paintball would be fun. I'd like to see the denominations go shopping 🛒 I bet you could give a good reason for each denomination Big Eva goes to Costco because bigger is better or something like that. Edit: It would probably be a wives episode. Lol

@ConversationswithaCalvinist

2 ай бұрын

That’s actually a fun idea :-)

Loving the new outro

Dear Uncle Rich and Keith, I just watched a sermon by Dr MacArthur called Christ is sufficient for all your crises, probably from last Sunday. It is his reply to the firestorm to all who think he was wrong and too harsh about mental illness. I won’t say what I thought but I recommend it to you brothers🙏 God bless

Keith Foskey is Not Like the Other Calvinists! 😊❤️

@Real11BangBang

2 ай бұрын

He's nice😂😂😂

@cindymonk6994

2 ай бұрын

He’s nice!

@person6768

2 ай бұрын

It's true I'm not nice. But Bless Keith Foskey for his kindness.

Thank you for this thoughtful discussion. If I can speak in defense of John Piper's position, I understand his position to be that self-defense is permitted, but its not the thing we should be striving for as we are sanctified by the Spirit. What we should prepare for is love, mercy, and self-sacrifice. Loving your enemies and praying for those who persecute you is the goal to strive for. "To live is Christ, to die is gain" is a miracle of work of Christ. Piper's point is that we should not spend our time and energy preparing to do violence, it should be preparing to love and show mercy.

Truthfully this is a topic I struggle with alot, on one hand I know in my head that God gives space and rules for self-defense and defending others, but on the other hand in my heart I don't want to harm another image-bearer and I'd probably feel awful if I did even if it were to protect a neighbor. I know the heart's deceitfully wicked and that God is always right, it's just tough to wrestle with, though if I want to get married and be a godly husband and dad one day I know I should be prepared to protect those whom the Lord has blessed me with and put under my care and headship. If any brother or sister in Christ reads this, could you pray for me? As well as the brothers and sisters who are facing high levels of persecution throughout the world.

The denominations do pew-pews. You could even work in the mega church and mini mall saying "We don't do pews. We do chairs!"

@sparker8875

2 ай бұрын

😂

@gigahorse1475

2 ай бұрын

The mega church and mini mall would have an indoor laser tag set up in the auditorium. Winner gets a ticket to the coffee store and book shop, losers get baptized.

When you said you work in an unsavory part of town, monkreif popped into my head immediately 😂

John Piper's take on not defending his family is the Christian version of that stupid bike theft comic

Jesus said to turn the other cheek after that it's on.

@gigahorse1475

2 ай бұрын

I find it unclear which cheek we are talking about.

@nonconformist9991

2 ай бұрын

@@gigahorse1475 In this day and age you never know.

Amish/Mennonites (my background) would say that a government authority must step down if they become a Christian. One quote I've heard was that government is "Pagans taking care of pagan problems."

@robmc120

2 ай бұрын

I would point them to Romans 13 and/or Proverbs 21:1, God is in control, not pagans.

Yes.

Thank you very much for this episode and all the work that you put into your ministry. Regarding "Eye for an eye", I remember hearing that this was a softening of the local custom of a life for an eye. Therefore Yahweh through Moses limited restorative justice. This is similar to the Law provided in Deuteronomy 21:18-21 regarding a rebellious son. The local custom was "I brought you into the World and I can take you back out." (Apparently in the 8th century BC the Levant was full of Southern mamas). God's law prohibited this practice and required that the parents bring the rebellious son to the community elders for justice.

@sueregan2782

2 ай бұрын

There’s an awful lot of LEOs who need this message.

Ask Phinehas (whose violence was a propitiation to turn back the plague)

I'm fairly new to your longer format content but loving it so far. I'm part of a nondenominational church. I enjoyed you and Matt Whitman touching on denominations and hope y'all can get with Reformed Zoomer to go deeper there. As to denominations, Presbyterians seem to have the theology very solid on everything except dunking babies. I'm working through the 1646 London Confession more closely after your recent podcast also. This conversation with Uncle Rich was excellent. I am already on board with it, but there was a time in my life I would have argued many of the points and would have benefited from the education. Curious if you have special considerations for situations like what Jim Elliot faced. That is Hans Fiene with singing the satire for your intro right? Digging what you are doing and contemplating drumming up a cohort to go through your academy. Keep up the good work to His glory brother!

Reformed Sage has great stuff, reformed teachers quotation bookmarks and tons more!!

Thou shalt not murder. Where did the idea of thou shall not kill come from? God prescribed killing for certain violations of his law.

Can we get time stamps on the different parts of the dialogue or questions being asked?

Great video. I am half way through it, so forgive me if I missed something, but here's my 2c... (Addressing aome comments here) I think its very important to differentiate resistng to criminals versus resisting to earthly authorities or opposition. We need to be careful not to conflate things. You see, the apostles and Christ did not resist being arrested by wordly leaders abusing good laws or using unjust laws, nor resorted to violence or vengence when facing opposition/persecution. However, it doesn't seem pieous, prudent, wise, or exegetically accurate extending that to a scenario, for instance, where a random criminal is trying to stab you or your wife in some dark corner. That would fall into the category of trying to be "too righteous" and ignoring the law makes provision for striking a man who enters your house in the middle of the night.

There is a time for war and there's a time for peace A Time For Love and a time for hate. If it hadn't been for the Calvinists standing up to the Catholic Spanish in the 80 years War in the Netherlands, the Catholics would still be burning Protestants alive for a long time The Spanish called Dutch calvinist beggars and there's a story about the Dutch calvinist gathering outside of Antwerp and scaring the Spanish duchess of that area, the margarita of Spain, the king of Spain's sister, so much that she wrote him a letter asking for soldiers because the calvinists were preaching hedge sermons outside of the city walls tens of thousands of people were eating on the grounds and the calvinist had men on horseback with wheel lock pistols and carbines securing the routes for their ministers. At A certain point they would discharge their firearms into the air And they called this "ringing the beggars bells for vespers!"

I appreciate the nuisance in the discussion. Liberal pacifism certainly has some serious logical issues. Biblical nonresistance, however, has much more merit. It very much hinges on an anabaptist core doctrine of the 2 kingdoms. This "Just War Debate" is a great listen that lays out the position fairly well. kzread.info/dash/bejne/fWiss8N9dK6_Z84.htmlsi=nBVZlfsxzXXQNpZO

Haven't listened yet, but Jesus's Sermon on the Mount is pretty clear. Sadly, there are a number of 'Christian' churches that say all of that woke stuff in the Beatitudes is no longer relevant today.

Not quite pacifism, but apparently there were a couple times in the intertestamental era that Jerusalem was captured because the people would not fight (self defense) on the Sabbath.

Hey there brothers, I have a somewhat relevant question to all my fellow believers. If someone asked you "Is genocide okay if God commands it?" how would you respond?

@mattcy1052

2 ай бұрын

It seems like a loaded question. Read Joshua chapter 11 verse 20

@KennethSaul

2 ай бұрын

@@mattcy1052 well yeah, I get that there are multiple events in the Bible that are by all accounts genocides. I was just considering the current geopolitical state of the world, and how we should respond to people who might want to hurl accusations at Christians for being pro-genocide.

@mattcy1052

2 ай бұрын

@@KennethSaul there are no nations currently that have a covenant with God and could claim that He is telling them to do that. Every nation has followers of Christ and those that rebel against Him. If a Christian serves in the military and is told to carry out actual genocide then I would say they can disobey that order and suffer for doing good. I don’t think that is actually happening in the Palestinian case. If Hamas shields itself with civilians then the anger should be directed at them. So the what if God commended question is not applicable these days under a new covenant where all are told to repent and believe.

PAX QUÆRITUR BELLO Peace (is achieved/gotten) through war.

Are you guys having to share a pair of AirPods?

@ConversationswithaCalvinist

2 ай бұрын

Yes, so we can both hear the videos without it echoing in the mics.

Why im not surprised that the most watched video on a KZread channel from the US is about guns? 😂😂😂..... In the UK even pepperspray are banned.

I'd be interested in a deeper dive specifically into Romans 13... For me, Romans 13 is a red line for inerrancy... Corrupt authority has been the cause of endless human suffering and loss of life for thousands of years. It's a shame. I agree with so much of what Paul has written, but for me, Romans 13 is just not justifiable (at least with the standing language, which contains no exceptions).

Eventually you run out of cheeks.

So, not to be that divisive guy, but Martin Luther has some pretty questionable aspects to his later writings that could bring up questions about his character.

Is Lutheran satire the guy who sings your intro?

@richardrhoden3596

2 ай бұрын

Yes. Hans Feinne

12:19 "You can only really be a pacifist if there are people who are willing to do violence on your behalf. Right, like you have to have somebody who's willing to be the the the peace officer." - Keith Heads up, I live in Australia. Yes, we employ professional people who are willing to be the the the peace officers. They are the police. I think that the statistics bear this out, that when you have some central force, which the people can control via the ballot box, that that it preferable to private uncontrolled uses of force. The basic problem with human nature, as economics tells us, is that people are selfish. It is funny that Christianity agrees with this. When you have selfish people, who act sometimes irrationally, then it is better that they do not have very large means to exact uncontrolled violence on others.

@robmc120

2 ай бұрын

"Yes, we employ professional people who are willing to be the the the peace officers. They are the police." When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away.....

@Luiz__Silva

2 ай бұрын

Minutes away is too optimistic. In some places or cases they may not even show up.

@Luiz__Silva

2 ай бұрын

Also, I don't think anybody here would disagree with you or argue against the police or the rule of law. But I think you are conflating two things: revenge/justice and self defense. The Bible, in the law, makes a clear difference between how to handle a case that happened in the past and nothing that happens in the moment. The law is clear: if you strike somebody who's entered your house at night, you are not culpable if you kill him. Plain and simple. You do not wait for the police if a robber is trying to stab you. That would be just insane. However, not that this is much different from when a Cristian is falsely accused by authorities. If the police shows up on your door and want to put you in jail, then like the examples of apostles and Christ you do not resist. It's a matter of context.

@robmc120

2 ай бұрын

@@Luiz__Silva i cant tell if youre referencing me in your "also" comment or the OC, but i'd like to make a distinction when you wrote: "If the police shows up on your door and want to put you in jail, then like the examples of apostles and Christ you do not resist" "WANT to put you in jail" vs "reason to put you in jail" is very important. 1)Jesus knew no matter what He would go to the cross bc thats the reason He came to us & the entire OT is prophesy of, Matthew 26:24, "The Son of Man will go just as it is written about Him." & Luke 24:27, "beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning Himself" 2)Paul objected to being jailed if they didnt have a reason, Acts 25:11, "If, however, I am guilty of anything worthy of death, I do not refuse to die. But if there is no truth to their accusations against me, no one has the right to hand me over to them." TLDR, i wouldnt go to jail just bc police showed up wanting me to, irt is NOT following biblical examples.

@andrewrollason4963

2 ай бұрын

@@Luiz__Silva I do not know why you'd want to design a society where a robber is able to use a lot of force either. Basic principles of harm minimisation would suggest that having highly armed robbers is bad.

When you mentioned getting tazed, I think you should to a collab with @hard2hurt