I see many comments "mylar is blocking the signal." It's the conductive metal, not the plastic, that's the important bit. If you're going for protection against skimming make sure you get the metal infused mylar.

@birkrollo5167

Жыл бұрын

When it looks silvery is it automatically containing metal? I am not sure

I'm glad to see you wearing gloves in public. it might seem weird but "you gotta do what you gotta do"...Futurama

@DJPhilTBCollins

4 жыл бұрын

My friends and I printed out a screenshot of that poster and put it up in the break room at work like 20 years ago. Might still be there! i.imgur.com/Bqnz5NL.jpg

Well this answers the question I asked in the last video. Good to see it works better than the rfid blocking wallet I bought from Aldi the other day.

@DavidRamirez-vc8dr

4 жыл бұрын

me217 just use Apple Pay. Better in every way

I used mylar and an aluminized foil to make my wallet. It's sandwiched between the leather layers. I've also done it (using a tri-fold wallet, for better results) by making a sort of Faraday cage using fine copper mesh (the kind you used to buy for carburetor repairs to punch out the tiny meshes for the intake). Alternatively, one can make a small mylar + foil sleeve for the individual cards. If you use aluminized foil, you put it on the inside for a nice slip and slide, you can slide your cards out easier, whilst the sleeve remains in the wallet.

I watched the previous video on making the wallet, it looked so cool, thanks for the tutorial. I use a leather wallet but I might make a card insert using Mylar to protect my contact cards. Thanks for the update and great videos as usual.

Although it was shown onscreen; I feel that I should point out that RFID and NFC (which tap-to-pay uses), although related, are two different, distinct technologies; and should not be confused.

@TrabberShir

4 жыл бұрын

For the purposes of this video, confusing them is mostly okay. NFC as implemented for tap-to-pay is not skimmable, but anything that can interact with the 13.56 MHz NFC chip can, with just software changes, read HF RFID chips such as in biometric passports.

@TheScarvig

4 жыл бұрын

@@TrabberShir well he said it the way it is: RadioFrequencyIDentification is a type of NearFieldCommunication the actual standards that make NFC devices compatible have different names most people dont know like Mifare and others though as it seems RFID has its own standard to encompass longer ranges for use in toll collect systems

Glad to see you being safe in the current times Angus! Look forward to the puzzle Easter egg you showed a sneak peek of in the designing for assembly video!

@MakersMuse

4 жыл бұрын

Me too! Just waiting on magnets to show up :D

@dano3696

4 жыл бұрын

@@MakersMuse ah, yes, shipping in Aus is quite slow right now, hope you get them soon. We've just gotten a few delayed packages here in QLD

Listening to Angus discuss shielding RFID brought to mind an old story. Professor of mine was asked to help shield a railroad communication system which used magnetic coupling down the rails. That way signalling could jump rails that weren't electrically connected. They were getting interference from power lines. He said, "Don't bother, use a different spur of track which is 90 degrees turned versus the power lines that are interfering. Like that one over there." They said, "No, really. How can we shield this and leave it where it is." He said "OK, take a solid foot of soft core iron and build a shield around this train locomotive testing location." ... They decided they could move the testing location. All that is to say that radio waves are much easier to shield than magnetic waves. I don't know how many NFC/RFID things would want to use magnetic fields, or would be able to, but blocking RF signals coupling the normal way is pretty easy. Even with that, someone building a sniffer is probably going to be motivated to make directional high-gain sniffers to increase sniffing range, much more than someone building a pay-point who wants to only detect something actually in proximity. Just because the pay-point won't detect it doesn't mean it can't be sniffed.

I have RFID shield (paper with something metallic inside) and it works. I'm using phone payments only if possible. Here we have 100 PLN instead of 50 PLN before corona. It translates to roughly 25-35 USD depending on the day.

Your wallet ack as a Faraday cage. All you need to block a radio frequency, radiation or magnetic field is a mesh made of electrically conducting material with holes smaller than the wavelength you are trying to bloc. The wavelength of the RFID used by smart cards is about 22 meters (13.56 Mhz), so pretty much any mesh would do.

Love that you get the ads for ForeverSpin - got some tops from those guys through a kickstarter and they are legit! Good stuff! :)

When learning about computer Networking almost 20 years ago, the textbooks said that you can use Mylar Blinds/Shades in the windows to stop WiFi signals from going beyond the office building. The only type of Mylar I am aware of has metal in it like those balloons.

Thanks for doing this test. I have one card that came with an RFID blocking sleeve. I don't know what it's made of, but it's definitely not mylar. In theory one should be able to make similar sleeves out of mylar if they want to keep using their regular wallet. (But I would personally test it and not assume that all mylar is of the same effectiveness.)

Hmm, I have an RFID reader and some disc type RFID tags plus a glass capsule tag, somewhere. If I can find what box it's in and some mylar I'll have a go at seeing how many layers it can be read through.

We have such an advantage as makers, with masks, goggles, gloves, isopropyl alcohol, other PPE, and cleaning gear all already stocked up ahead of time!

Well done we need more of your kind in the world today👍

Thank you for sharing. Tony

Love your work thank you

BTW, hey Angus, love your videos, keep making them!

I wish you would have added a control to test the theory, it's possible that even a thin layer of fabric can block the communication..

@MakersMuse

4 жыл бұрын

I planned to do lots more testing, but it's a bit difficult accessing the shops right now!

@yuvalperry6688

4 жыл бұрын

@@MakersMuse understood :) thanks for the reply!

Very interesting to see this result! I don't use NFC stuff because for some dumb reason, they only allow it on debit or credit cards, but I have often wondered how easily they could be skimmed. I do have one in my wallet, and while I've never really found one in a situation to really be worried about it, I have often wondered! Great to know this is a possibility! Might have to experiment with something similar myself sometime :)

If you're trying to keep from touching the machines, carry a stylus pen with you to prod the buttons and sign your name. Then hit it with alcohol/hand sanitizer when done before putting it back in your pocket.

There you go, pushing out more interesting content, YAY!

So just a credit card holder of the size of the card would do the job. A packet of chips, duct tape, and in a few seconds we're ok. Thanks for the tip Angus ! :) Thumb up !

Can't resist... lol, the Canadian ads you're getting... ^_^

Dude! Man! Brotherrrr!! That's very groovy. And if still ending up spending, try dipping the card into that aluminum paint used for metal roofing, to block all transactions. Useful for people who otherwise would find a mylar wallet to be still too expensive, and if to help effectively reduce debt.

That's handy. I tried stacking up layers of Mylar and reading an NFC card with my phone but it couldn't block it. I believe contactless has a shorter read distance though

@RomanoPRODUCTION

4 жыл бұрын

Try standard aluminium foils

My solution is just always have at least 2 contactless cards in my wallet, that way they can't read them! That, and having no money so they have nothing to steal!

@awo1fman

4 жыл бұрын

Normal readers are very different from skimmers. A commercial reader is designed with all kinds of security and idiot-proofing features. If it reads more than one card it will throw up an error because it can't be sure which one you're trying to use, not because it can't read anything. If a signal can get to the cards then any and all cards can be read. Anybody that says having multiple cards together will stop skimmers is either a gullible dupe or a skimmer who wants you to give them multiple cards at once. The only thing that can actually prevent skimming is a Faraday cage that stops radio frequency signals.

@NoTimeForThatNow

4 жыл бұрын

I’ve employed the “have no money” strategy quite successfully in the past!

@procactus9109

4 жыл бұрын

@@awo1fman A grounded cage.

@MrSandoron

4 жыл бұрын

This is wrong. You can read hundreds of tags with one antenna at the same time without a problem.

@golgorath5623

4 жыл бұрын

@@awo1fman kzread.info/dash/bejne/loiDxK2teN3Yn7A.html then take a look

That's good to know. Thanks

Just that slight pause to stop yourself saying 'Goon bag' and going with Wine Cask....

When i renewed my passport, it came with an RFID blocking sleeve. I asked for a few more and cut them up and slid them into the card slots in my wallet to effectively make my wallet RFID blocking.

The "skimming" setups can use MUCH bigger coils in their readers than the ones in the POS terminals, they're capable of reading an RFID chip from further away and through greater interference. Having your card in a mylar wallet is definitely not a bad idea though. It's just not a guarantee that someone won't be able to read your card.

@lylyeoh

Жыл бұрын

Unless the bear is targeting you, you don't have to run faster than the bear, just the people near you... ;)

Whens that 2020 3D model maker software update coming out!?

Well, I just added a piece of aluminium foil inside of my wallet and vavoom, it works as well. Btw, a friend of mine has a shop where they sell French fries and they have a metal basket with paper towels next to the payment device, this metal basket causes the chip reader to fail as well. Sometimes someone picks up a paper towel and shoves it towards the card reader and this causes payment issues because it apparently messes with the magnetic field of the reader.

Nice one

I was wondering that too but also I just put a computer together and the motherboard comes in a static free bag I wonder if that will work the same way

@Graham_Wideman

4 жыл бұрын

Blocking RF requires "Faraday's Cage effect (check wikipedia etc) which relies on highly conductive surrounding surface, or at least cage, to create a shell over which the electric field doesn't vary. By contrast, anti-static material has very high electrical resistance, so would not be very resistant to RF.

easiest way to NFC proof your wallet: carry more than a single NFC enabled card in it... good luck skimming my card when my library card, student id, health insurance card an access card to the gym locker are cross talking whenever a reader comes close to my wallet. for good measure i also carry an old empty card with a dozen small sticky RFID tags on it that i pulled from old laser printer cartridges.

You might want to determine how close you need to put the card to the reader to activate the reader. Then make sure that when the card in the wallet is at least as close to the reader as the card was outside of the wallet and see if you get an activation. Or just wrap the card itself in mylar and place it up against the reader and see if you get an activation.

@tin2001

4 жыл бұрын

In general, around 1cm works. If you want to test at home, and have an Android phone with NFC, download one of the NFC card reader apps (NXP's app is a reputable one - designed for testing the chips they manufacture) and play around. The NFC reader in your phone is exactly the same as the readers in those terminals, although the antenna design varies somewhat, and most EFT terminals have the antenna behind the LCD, which does reduce it's effectiveness a little.

i found the mcdonalds u were at the old 'gong LOL -pretty cool how it protects rfid will look into it if they increase to $250 next video idea- Can we make toilet paper out of TPU sheets?

I'm guessing some designs might not be so good. Can you try cutting a wire or something conductive on your wallet at the length of the wave length used in these cards. I'm guessing it might scan with a certain physical size tail coming off it. A certain physical size should be avoided I think. Also try dangling it with non conductive string, so your body is not grounding the wallet. Cheers Edit: The asshats that are genuinely into metal hats are only make a randomly tuned antenna. They never ground it, stupids will be stupid I guess.

I am using 2 aluminium foils to protect my card in my wallet. My phone NFC can no longer read my card with the foils as well as usual card readers. Maybe special readers can but I guess I am safe.

Just put 2 rfid cards together in the same compartment of the walled and you are good

@mozkitolife5437

4 жыл бұрын

I have that issue with RFID tags in my pocket. I have 3: one for gym and two security cards for work. Sometimes the reader will spaz out when I have them all in one pocket and attempt to scan it. I suppose the bits that are sent back by multiple excited circuits are indecipherable by the reader and can't filter out the one that relates to it's system.

Maybe you could test a wallet made of a non-metallic material at the same terminal. It could just be that the chip wasn't close enough to the reader because of the thickness of the wallet and nothing to do with the Mylar.

Heck, a single piece of aluminum foil against the back side of the card will interfere with RFID reading. It won't stop it all the time especially if it's a strong reader. But it does make it harder to get a scan.

Y'know the best thing to block an RFID card? Another RFID card ;) The reader can't uncouple the signals. I was given that handy tip by the guy that runs the NMR facilities at my uni. That said, when I finally make a wallet to replace my currently very dying one, I did plan to put some aluminised mylar in there.

pls make a vid on how to set a website and sell yr desines

@MakersMuse

4 жыл бұрын

Just use an existing platform like gumroad, myminifactory or cults! Easy :3

@christoforosmk

4 жыл бұрын

@@MakersMuse I want to make something like yr website

So long as you have a very conductive metal film, thin or thick, it will almost always block RFID reading. Faraday cages FTW.

A sleeve or envelope would probably work just as well if you weren't into Mork from Ork look of a silver wallet.

You used to be able to buy mylar sleeves for your card to protect against skimming but I'm unsure if you still can.

Speaking of Mylar, maybe you could experiment with sputter deposition.

Aluminium is a perfectly viable material for Faraday cages.

What if you cover the inside of your wallet with aluminium ? I mean it should still have the same effect right ?

Does straight up aluminum foil act the same as your Mylar?

Anyone have any thoughts on the "heating blanket" mylar material? Also wondering if that mylar material can be used inside clothing as a heat reflector? When is it advantageous with that application ? Wanted to have a layer of mylar in my snowboarding boots as I have unmanageably cold feet despite every fitment and brand advantage avalible.

@janetizzy6741

4 жыл бұрын

Get two of the largest boots you can find; Use two of the boxed wine bladders, wine still in them, to fill out the boots; Any type of wine should do, although "Industrial Red" is known to work; While in the cold, sample the chilled wine occasionally; After a suitable time, your feet might get cold but you will not actually care.

Can you please reupload the video? The 1080p version does not load at all. Not a single byte.

The type of tap technology you were demonstrating with cannot be skimmed. Unless you live in the US, your bank card is probably safe from that attack because it uses an active challenge/response protocol (the US also has an older approved wireless standard which is passive, but should be phased out by now, not sure). The processor on the card is powered by the transmitter in the reader and does some cryptographic calculations. -For those people with passive RFID they need to protect, that usually runs in a different frequency band so your test may not be relevant.- Edit: The passive I have worked with usually runs either LF or UHF for range or bandwidth respectively. Among passive tags, HF (13.56 MHz) is mostly used by legacy protocols developed before the introduction of UHF in 2004. But I just thought to look it up, and it turns out both biometric passports and the old US bank card standard are in that age rand and do use HF. NFC is a spinoff of RFID tech and uses the same 13.65 MHz band as HF RFID, so my claim of it usually running on a different frequency is not really correct.

very cool :)

Gold coloured.. copper.. space blankets are much better for that kind of thing.. phones wrapped in the stuff don't work while the silver stuff doesn't stop it.

I appreciate you going out to see if this wallet can protect your card, but I think you should have at least tested with a regular wallet too so you can have something we can compare the results with.

Well that was cool. 🤘😁🤘

Wouldn’t it be easier to make Mylar sleeves for your cards and slip them in your regular wallet?

I use to pieces of really fine mesh either side of card

Well... That's pretty cool

You should try and make a wallet with 5mm lead plates and see if its thick enough to block RFID

for places that accept apple pay natively, they don't have a limit, in my experience anyway, (australia)

Just a side benefit to doing things yourself!

Governments: we need to increase limits on contactless. Me with non-contacltess card: you for real? First they should ban those non-contactless cards.

Im my country (Croatia) it was 15$ limit, now they will raise it to about 40$

Too many possible confounds. Was it the bulkiness of the wallet keeping the card just that much farther away? To test that, take the mylar and make a single wrapping of the card, or an envelope. Use card with and without envelope. If it truly can block that should be the definitive test of the matter.

Safeway paystations are stronger i find my ph nfc goes off quicker. Aldi is weak

I think I might like a wallet LINED with aluminum mylar

The easiest way of blocking an rfid card is to have another rfid card next to it. This happens all the time at work with people going through a long range rfid gate and the have their rfid pass next a credit card.

@awo1fman

4 жыл бұрын

No, no, NO! That can't stop a skimmer! It only stops legit readers that need to prevent registering the wrong card! That is no guarantee of a skimmer not getting all your cards at once! Only a Faraday cage can guarantee protection from skimmers.

I take it pain aluminium foil will work too?

@rich1051414

4 жыл бұрын

Yes. Aluminum foil tape might be more convenient. Line the bills pocket, it should block everything once the wallet is folded.

Im surprised you didnt say Maccas!

Have your purchase card separate to payout card. BOOM and you're safe

Faraday cage, it's simple and it works

So, if the mylar did indeed block RFID, couldn't you block RFID just by wrapping your wallet in foil?

From those paypoints, I can't get them to work through my leather wallet (as the only card/metal in the wallet). I always have to pull the card out. It maybe more about the fact the reader is supplying low power than the mylar blocking the radio signal. Scammers will use a higher power and more sensitive receiver to work from a distance. I am not saying it doesn't work, but your test isn't proof.

Angus, you've got some balls going in a McDonalds of all places.

@facitenonvictimarum174

4 жыл бұрын

Half the people who get the virus have balls.

For any one who is afraid that an evil-doer will steal money contact less with the bank cards: Just disable this function already!!! You can use it on you smartphone though, because that usually requires the screen to be unlocked first.

Next up, reduce head scanning by the government cap

I used the corner of my card to enter my pin the other day

The Incredible WiFi-proof Mylar 'Goon' wallet!

@SuperFrodo95

4 жыл бұрын

It's not WiFi, in case you aren't joking.

On Maker's Muse we aim to Empower CyberSecurity through Technology. Angus: make a wallet out of a Goon bag. Aussie, Aussie, Aussie!!!!......

Protip, if you're the kind of lactose-intolernt person who puts lactaid pills in your wallet, you can block RFID

the coke machine at work wont even pick it up through my normal leather wallet

@meky0

4 жыл бұрын

i think some leathr is treated with chrome

Stream was gud

Can it survive the microwave test?

Just clip the corner of the card, that will kill the NFC.

Hey there brother from an Australian mother. You might want to create a awareness of this. Please checkout Teaching Tech on youtube's channel info page, STL files are at this link: One of my Patrons has been involved by the creation of a 3D printable manifold for ventilators. It can potentially save two/four lives at a time instead of one. All of the details and the legal information is contained in the website: makersuniteDOTco

With my card i can only pay 25€ with no signatur or pin

Also RFID/NFC blocking is now important for some countries passports, identification cards and social services similar to USA social security/Medicare benefits cards. Check with the country where you may have some of the above due to some countries using the same chip technology but I some cases the chip is intended and not visible. Often used in wireless policing and tracking in certain countries. It is how those countries will know where you are. Often used in communist and dictatorship countries. USA PASSPOTTS ARE NOW AN ISDUE FIR RFID/NFCs!!

Please don't try shielding these things. A fraudulent person would use a bit of a different reader with more output. There are readers that can indeed read through these shielding measures. But there is a much simpler and way more secure way. Simply put two cards together, properly aligned with each other. If a reader tries to read a card, both get powered up and start screaming their messages and scramble up the information you wanna hide. That way the read will either fail or succeed and result in scrambled data

Attention fellow U.S. MM fans! Got a 3D printer and some PETG? You should be printing face-shield headbands for Repkord's and Hacker Lab's Operation Shields Up! See www.opshieldsup.org/. If you don't have PETG, get some! Thousands of face shields are needed now!

How to be big brain

a) Phew! Please don't call this pandemic a 'scare'. May I remind you of the current situation in Italy, where there are not enough respiratory devices for all patients? Doctors have had to decide whome they will attempt to heal and whome they just have to let die for weeks now, fully knowing that if there were not as many patients at once, nearly all of them would survive. Social distancing is a very reasonable action to keeping the number of simultaneously ill people low. b) Don't you tell me you had a whole empty restaurant for yourself and did not test how many layers were sufficient for each material you used (wine bags, chips bags,...)? ;-)

Hello

I have ask my credit card company not to send me a card without RFID, problem solved.

8 Comments and only see 3, whats going on?

It’s u loom inum lol jk