Very good discussion. Fintan outlines the view from the south of anglo-irish identity pretty succinctly, and Mike is a very reasonable and pragmatic unionist. Wish there were more like him

Mike Nesbitt is a decent man. It's no wonder he didn't last in the UUP. He was too normal to survive as a unionist leader.

@pmcl3616

5 жыл бұрын

BB42 some good people in the UUP.

Civilised and insightful. What's almost always lacking in the pissing contest that is brexit.

bloomin heck, I'd never have thought I'd say this of a unionist politician but Mike Nesbitt is spot on here.

That unionist fella seems like someone who should be in charge ,not the DUP

Mr Nesbitt is a thinking Unionist. Northern Ireland needs a lot more like him.....

@everready2903

5 жыл бұрын

Yes very reasonable man.

Great discussion, both of you were very level headed, no hyperbole, no emotional exaggeration just a pragmatic discussion. Very refreshing!

This is the most intelligent discussion I have heard to date on this subject. I wish people of this calibre were in charge of the process. I hope that when all this is over Ireland is going to be a great place to live for good people of all traditions and identities in a shared future.

Nesbitt absolutely brilliant. Might just be the south's favourite Unionist and everyone in Britain and Ireland should listen to him.

so refreshing to see two people having a discussion without shouting each other down and acknowledging each others worries and aspirations.

I've a feeling they'll be showing this in 10 years on reeling in the years...

Utter common sense from big Mike and Fintin.

Thank you all involved in this video for a grown up political conversation.

Mike I'm an Irish nationalist but i respect your view of things. It's such a pity that there aren't many more unionists like you who see both sides. I know many do but I congratulate your wisdom in being so frank even though the sovereignty of our land differs. We can be 1 in a United Ireland and lets develop that conversation among our wonderful people

The UUP man is a breath of fresh air

This was done so civilly, it threw me off balance...

I like Mike Nesbitt. He’s an intelligent, rational, intuitive and calm politician. In a united Ireland I could conceivably vote for a party lead by him.

@helenaville5939

5 жыл бұрын

I don't think so. He and the party he led had a bitter parting of ways.

@midnightmover2329

5 жыл бұрын

He defines his identity as Irish and British,as a nationalist who hopes someday we will have a just and fair United Ireland,I have no problem with that whatsoever.

Very good points from both sides. Am looking forward to the day where I, as a citizen of Ireland and an Irish Nationalist, can go to see an Orange Parade and feel that I am getting to know and understand our Unionist friends better, however far in the future that may be.

@AJ-le4wb

5 жыл бұрын

I would not start at an Orange parade as that is a minority interest (believe it or not).

@helenaville5939

5 жыл бұрын

So you believe supporting a sectarian organisation with supremacist traditions is a positive step? Oh dear.

View from the US. Good productive discussion from all involved. Mike Nesbit voted "No", b/c he wasn't clear what Brexit meant. What an entirely rational thing to do.

Well done Mark.....great discussion from Mike and Fintan.

This should have been broadcast in Scotland Enland and Wales as well. So sick of getting the English perspective on not only brexit, but the UK.

I'm an Ulsterman, I'm Irish, I'm British, I'm European! Well said, John Hewitt! Not stated by Mike, but in an United Ireland, the notion there might be any affront to their British identity in this emergent tolerant island is simply out of the question. In fact, it would be immensely respected, welcome, not least by 100,000s Irish who have lived some of their lives in Britain and done well. I would say overall overwhelming goodwill. The only caveat, would it consolidate a worrisome shift to the right? Some Unionist politics, the people they represent are in the mindset of rightist/fascist movements in Europe. Marriage equality, right to choose might be at issue in another time. The majorities this time were sufficient even if there was an All-Ireland vote. Still, there is a possibility if there was re-unification of a very measurable shift to right-wing politics.

@roykerins8388

5 жыл бұрын

sbranagh1 I actually can’t see that happening since Sinn Fein is the biggest party in Ireland and it is growing and they are as about as left as you can go Ireland has become very progressive lately even Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are becoming more left and I actually find it quite worrisome it’s one of the main reasons why I worry about a United Ireland look at our last two referendums gay marriage and abortion

@roykerins8388

5 жыл бұрын

I was in favor of the gay marriage though

@blathnaidsherry4035

5 жыл бұрын

@@roykerins8388 Sinn Fein are not the biggest party in Ireland Sinn Fein sold the irish people out

@Justme-zo3jy

5 жыл бұрын

Unification will not happen, not all people here in the Republic of Ireland want it.

@barryolaith

5 жыл бұрын

Sbranagh1: I agree with you. I am starting to believe that a New Ireland, not the old Republic or the old Northern Ireland, but a country called Ireland where all traditions are nurtured and celebrated by all in friendship is the future. We have to get away from the old ideas and we have to get away from a situation where we are so affected by what happens in Britain politically. I am not anti-British at all, but in that 'system' we are just too small and get swept away on the current.

Fintan's opening stare is majestic

An outbreak of sanity...

Brilliant Mike. Let's celebrate the musicians. Good chat.

I always thought Mr Nesbitt was a nice man even when he used to read out the GAA results on UTV news back in day

Grown up discussion- cheers

A thoughtful discussion

What is there to celebrate? The UK's waning power? The UK is not even considered one of the big powers these days.I'm not bothered though..let them have what they voted for.

Very illuminating discussion, if only there were more unionists of the calibre of Mike Nesbitt his people would be better led.

@philipocarroll

5 жыл бұрын

He's not representative, unfortunately, at least not of the DUP. He is UUP, and they are a spent force.

I have to say I don't follow NI politics as much as I should, only being 6 miles south of it. But that Unionist politician is a voice of reason. Unfortunately, it seems like there aren't enough like him. Even this side of the border, we realise how detrimental Brexit will be to our locality economically.

Excellent commentary

Fintan articulated the blindly obvious extremly well.

@robertpirsig5011

5 жыл бұрын

It's not that obvious to those dictating the terms unfortunately!

Thanks for posting, nostalgia for empire indeed. Good to hear some intelligent views.

Just straight, sensible talk from two guys who know what they are talking about. I really likes Mike's point about the Tories blathering on about all these fantastic new markets. "Are the EU 27 so stupid that they don't know where these markets are?" Absolute fantasy and lies by mischievous conservatives. It's all about power. Didn't Gove stab Boris in the back, who in turn is now creeping up behind May with his dagger in hand. Cameron introduced the referendum as a way to solidify power against the encroaching UKIP. Money and power, not a care given to the country and the disastrous fallout. Brexit should be used as a noun to describe a disaster or catastrophe, e.g, "Our team lost 0 - 4 today. It was Brexit!" "That tsunami in Indonesia was absolute Brexit!"

Refreshing to listen to sensible people

I don't understand why Mike didn't annihilate Arlene in terms of unionist vote in the last election. Heck, I'm a southern, and I'd vote for him.

@RobertK1993

5 жыл бұрын

DonnaghM A majority Unionists have followed Ian Paisley DUP off a cliff.

@shamrockshore6308

5 жыл бұрын

+DonnaghM 'I don't understand why Mike didn't annihilate Arlene in terms of unionist vote in the last election. Heck, I'm a southern, and I'd vote for him.'....And that's why he didn't.

How Can Northern Ireland expect a voice when their own assembly is not viable.

If you listen to Fintan's accent, you can hear that the American accent comes from Ireland. As well as the high standard of English language. Sadly something lost in England where most people speak like in My Fair Lady.

The diff here is that southern Irish people feel a very strong connection to nationalist people in the north..we both see each other as Irish as one another. And feel deep in are souls we are illegal separated. On the flip side The English feel no connection whatsoever to the unionists people, they don’t see them as real British people like themselves. In fact quite to the contrary they see them as Irish people also. The average English joe couldn’t tell u the first thing about Northern Ireland or unionists and couldn’t care less about them , that’s Ireland to them. That’s why I feel it’s inevitable that Ireland will reunite it’s only a matter of when.

@jaqian

5 жыл бұрын

As a republican I see the Unionists as Irish but that doesn't take away from them being British as well. They can be both and have a bigger say in a united Ireland.

@elclairo3696

5 жыл бұрын

I think there is definitely a generational divide on the view of Ireland being "illegally separated" and trending towards reunification. Certainly I do not know a single young southern Irish person who wants reunification. We grew up watching the troubles on the news and only want to see Northern Ireland maintain their peace. That will not happen if there are still parties urging for a reunification process that a majority in the north does not support. Let them be their own independent entity for now - neither fully Irish nor British, but something unique and more than a sum of their parts. They are only a young county too, as Ireland is and have a right to discover their own identity, without outside interference. Ultimately, an end to the terror and bloodshed of the past is more important then what anthem they sing at football matches (and there's always "Ireland's Call"!).

@infodrop231

5 жыл бұрын

Speaking as an English person, I would say this is spot on. I'm sure most English people (and Welsh for that matter, not so sure about the Scots) would happily see a re-united Ireland. That's what foreigners (like the Americans) so often miss when they go on about the English "oppressing" Ireland. Yeah, maybe 100 years ago, but that's history.

Brilliant

The Conservative Party and any mainland British party does not want us in NI. As a staunch unionist I know rightly that they will if needs be throw us to the dogs- as Churchill said about unionists in the free state after partition they should stew in their own juice.

Mike Nesbitt is sound.

Common sense prevails. Now, if only the egotists would die-off and let level headed adults deal with this circus

Mike, while the Tories have been tearing themselves apart over Brexit, the EU have been doing trade negotiations with Australia and New Zealand, so you’re stop on.

Nothing dangerous about being and loving your own country, you love your family before you love anything or anyone in person outside your loving family.

The Tories,JRM and the ERG,are going to shaft the DUP

Ireland was devided in 1922 against the vast majority of the Irish people living on the island. And this problem will not go away until Ireland is reunited. RESPECTFULLY SPEAKING.

@NorthernIrishman

5 жыл бұрын

And so what will happen to all those who identity as Northern Irish?

What does it mean to be British, or English? What does it mean in terms of our values? I thought about this a fair bit recently. One could draw a line from John Locke right through the economic and political theorists that have resided on these islands the past 150 years. The problem with that is you end up with a set of values that probably 80+% of the people on the entire planet agree with. Did that happen because the influence of the British on the modern world is much greater than many would care to admit, or just that these values really are universal truths? That is a question for the historians to debate. What one is left with however is nothing much else beyond vague ideas of culture, is there such a thing as a British culture? Is the culture of the landed gent off doing country sports really the same culture as the Gaelic speaking islanders or the city youth? This is obviously a nonsense so one is left with a sort of malleable mythology. Calling on mythology is the last step on the road to demagoguery, its what the most vain in politics do when the cupboard is bare of anything else.

Voted no because he didn't understand what Brexit meant No longer leader of his party Sums up modern UK politics

That was a great, civilized conversation. I am a Republican but I think I also have common sense. Something Mike, and I hope other Unionists, might agree with would be for the island to unite but as a federation of equals, not a takeover by the South. Keep the two political units for as long as necessary but with as lightweight an all-Ireland administration as possible. The emphasis of the GFA would change, as was suggested, from protecting the identity of the Republicans to protecting the identity of the Unionists.

An intelligent debate like this demonstrates all the shortcomings of a certain individual who hosts the "Biggest show in the country" on radio Ulster every morning from 9.00 to 10.30

Why would celebrating the centenary of N Ireland be important to a union that didn't celebrate it's tricentenary in 2007? We knew the Tories had become the party of England when they failed to celebrate the foundation of the union. A festival in 2022 is likely to coincide with negotiations on the dissolution of the British Union.

If this keep getting worse will both the conservative and labour parties both split?

Ha! That was an excellent final point about the ignorance of thinking that somehow there's markets out there that the EU are too stupid to tap into. Hadn't thought about that.

God Nesbitt must hate Foster!! Top man and I'm from the South

In Italy we had Gorizia/Nova Gorica a border town between Italy and the past Yougoslavia. That Town was unique in Europe: it has had its border cancelled and the citizens of both towns were free to pass the border. Always in Italy we have one the best example with special situation: San Marino has a deal with Italy and the Alto Adige SudTirol has a large autonomy... what are you saying? Wake up and don't waste your time in silly political questions..!!

@Gillemear

5 жыл бұрын

Point taken but with all of these cases you are talking about regional self-determination and a willingness on all sides to get along. Traditionally that was not so in NI where grudges run deep and old wounds have not significantly healed. It is difficult to compare it to anywhere else, it's not for nothing everyone involved agrees NI is unique

@helenaville5939

5 жыл бұрын

Don't be over-simplistic about political situations you know nothing about. Italy with its historical fondness for fascism is hardly an example to the world.

I understand that Scottish, welsh, northern irish people feel they areb overlooked in the United Kingdom. It doesnt help that people outside of the UK often mistakenly interchange British and English for someone from the UK. I understand also that English people have some resentment for others in the UK who see the English as rivals.

@davetdowell

5 жыл бұрын

You've been misled into believing the attitudes of the peoples of Celtic nations are far softer than they really are. As far as we English are concerned they 'hate' the fact that we exist. I mean pure visceral hatred, the kind that sees them supporting our children being murdered on our streets by their people. So no it's not rivally, it's race hatred.

Being part of both the European common market and the UK market is a very sweet deal. Just ask Lichtenstein, who has free trade with both Switzerland and the EU : they are are among the richest people in the world! All the English companies who will need to stay under EU regulation would move to Northern Ireland, the EU companies wanting to access the UK market and the Commonwealth would come as well. It would create a lot of jobs and economic growth. Northern Ireland should be glad everyone wants to give them such a huge advantage right now. They would also get autonomy from the UK in their trade policy, which is a great win for the Nationalists. But it would quickly become economically disastrous for Northern Ireland to become independent of the UK, so it would never happen... A great win for the Unionists! But I'm French, so what do I know...

@bluesky8869

5 жыл бұрын

Il ne s'agit pas de faire de l'Irlande du nord un nouveau pays indépendant. Ils vont soit rester dans le royaume uni, soit unifier l'Irlande du nord avec la république d'Irlande. S'ils choisissent la deuxième option, économiquement ce ne sera pas une perte, puisqu'ils resteront dans l'UE, et pourront donc continuer à bénéficier du support de l'UE et profiter du marché commun qui est bien plus important que le marché Britannique. D'autant plus que l'Irlande du nord, comme l'Ecosse, a voté pour le maintien dans l'UE.

@everready2903

5 жыл бұрын

Liechtenstein has a population of less than 50,000. Can't really compare their economy to the U.K.

@helenaville5939

5 жыл бұрын

You lost all credibility when you wrote "companies wanting to access the Commonwealth...". News Flash: The Commonwealth is not even a trading bloc. It is a scattering of countries that have nothing much in common except that most of them are still suffering from a strange kind of Stockholm Syndrome, being enormously grateful to their old master, Britain, for not having completely annihilated them.

@rioga98

5 жыл бұрын

If you don't like Lichtenstein, another example would be Hong Kong (ruled under the "1 country, 2 systems" moto), population 8 millions. Northern Ireland is only 1.8 million...

@rioga98

5 жыл бұрын

A new free trade deal among commonwealth countries is the expressed top priority of brexiteers. It is true however that it might never happen. Still, the UK would surely have a preferential access to a lot of different countries than the EU, making it interesting for big EU companies to have a presence in NI to access them.

The wisdom in this video is amazing. On the topic of 'remaining British in a united Ireland', it's as simple as flipping the identity roles now. With a united Ireland we should have a good relationship with Britain, and even allow loyalists dual citizenship and the perks that Irish people in Britain now have. I don't think your average person ever thinks of those details.

@davetdowell

5 жыл бұрын

Except there won't be a 'British' identity or state to be a citizen of. Interesting to hear the elected head of the Irish state deciding to grant citizenship of another nation to her own people (at least those who want it). It's not like we in England should have any say over who can and can't be a citizen of our nation after all, is it?

Insightful debate. First I've seen. I think the union has gone and this matter is about identity. I would welcome a united Ireland with the options of people in ulster to opt for a UK or Irish passport. After all we exist multiculturally. Both government s must respect the choice of individuals identity. It's obvious that people see themselves as Welsh, Scottish, English, Irish or ulster people than British. As for trade, let it be determined by the purchasing currency of imports.

Very interesting and respectful debate about the current mess of Brexit.

If I didn't know any better I'd think this program was in another country. 2 normal. We're jus 2 listening 2 pure shite from foster & dodds. Etc

Ugh. I just can't wrap my head around this. I have, to be honest a very, myopic view and naive view of this I'll admit BUT you were planted into a country against the wishes of its owners and now generations later still claim to be British. If you want to be British go live in Britian. U are living on the island of Ireland and have fractured someone else's country for 100+ years. We want a untitled Ireland of you want to be English that's fine. Go live in England. And for the love of god in this day and age let go of your body empire and Britishness. Your empire was built on the blood, murder and theft of other people's homes. Why express pride in that and desire to reclaim it. People would go nuts if Germany spoke with pride about their empire, Britain killed millions too and it's never mentioned. Genocide of Irish and Indians and never mentioned. Why be nostalgic and proud of that. Give us back our island. Just my view. Respect, peace and love to all

This is a bit out there and a side step.. However I found it really interesting how their whole talk about non binary identity is very similar to the LGBT community.

2:11 that's largely not true, most people view loyalists as Paddy's just like the rest of us.

jethro beatz you are speaking for yourself when you say we are northern Irish this is the point.people are allowed the freedom to see themselves as they wish not have others imposing their opinion and will on them.

Shush now! Grown-ups talking...........

Excellent discussion. Look.... there are 2 different desires in NI and they have managed to find a middle ground. Brexit is just throwing a hand grenade in the middle of this. Why? Both of the people here are reasonable. No sane person can refute this, and yet both are saying Brexit is dangerous. Nesbitt's last comment was priceless..... Brexiteers consider that the EU27 know what is at sake and also how to make deals.

Can't believe the absolute naivety of May with this festival of Britain, the uncertainties that Brexiteers could bring there won't be one to celebrate, nevermind the economic hit that everyone will take including the Rep.of Ireland and she wants to have a party 😦

Unfortunately "Northern Ireland" was created and sustained through sectarianism. Dividing Ireland along sectarian lines was always going to be a disaster. It was ill-conceived without due thought for the longterm rights and views of all the people of Ireland. I feel we're at a point in our history when we can build a better, shared Ireland. The NI Assembly will remain after reunification (that's a part of the GFAgreement) and all the rights and protections that entails. The views of Unionists must be heard and respected in building a new Ireland - the days of a homogeneous, "Republican" Ireland are over. A Scots-Irish person has just as much right to this island as anyone else. I think the future is looking very good.

@philipocarroll

5 жыл бұрын

No, I think the future is a disaster in waiting. If you ever talked to a genuine Unionist you would realize the impossibility of convincing them that their future would be better in a United Ireland. If there was a referendum passed 50% + 1 in favour of United Ireland it would mean a civil war. The current Brexit trajectory is going to divide Ireland again risking sectarian conflict and/or ultimately lead to a United Ireland and a subsequent civil war. The complex, shitty, bureaucratic arrangement with the EU, Good Friday Agreement was far from ideal but it kept the peace. If you blow up this then the future is murder.

@helenaville5939

5 жыл бұрын

You need to re-read the Good Friday Agreement. Keeping a separate Northern Ireland assembly after re-unification is certainly NOT part of it.

9 counties in ulster. 3 are in the republic of ireland so reformed catholics are 1/3 rd irish.

@patriciarogers9079

5 жыл бұрын

No the other way

@gloin10

5 жыл бұрын

@Barbara Hallinan "...so reformed catholics are 1/3 rd irish"? Would that be the top third, the bottom third, or the squishy bit in the middle?

leaving the EU is "not" leaving Europe so you would not lose your European identity and the UK is not Britain

How about one may have been an Atheist, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever?

Before we leave the EU the UK has no more important job than to consolidate our relationship with Eire.

@k2008

5 жыл бұрын

Where's Eire..

@nigelmurphy6761

5 жыл бұрын

you cna forget it. We're more interested in maintain our relationship with the EU

@teresaryan4242

5 жыл бұрын

Where is Eire?

@arfnore

5 жыл бұрын

Eire, is in the EU! It is not possible for the uk to abandon the EU and then cosy up to Ireland in the hopes that the people of Ireland will forget their history and rejoin Britain!

@dereklambe

5 жыл бұрын

The name of the country is Ireland.

@4:00 Fintan, it wasn't just English people who voted for Brexit...the Welsh did so too.

Fintan does raise some interesting opinions that provide a different perspective on events. Now up front I am British of English decent. I find it strange that for most of my life I have never really referred to myself as 'English' but British. In recent times, (probably since devolution for Wales and Scotland), I have found it unacceptable that both Wales, Scotland and NI have the right to vote on solely English issues whilst as an Englishman I have no such rights over devolved Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish affairs. Increasingly I would like to see an independent Scotland and Wales, and I have long thought the people of NI need to get themselves sorted out and get into bed with either ROI or Scotland (I really don't care). From a purely economic perspective England would be in a better financial and cultural position if all countries of the United Kingdom stood independently on their own two feet. I would ask all of them to have the courage of their convictions and simply go.

I don’t see how leaving the eu makes anyone less European.

You don't need the EU to feel European

@tonydecastro6340

5 жыл бұрын

that's what they said before two world wars...any identity, which does not discount having multiple ones, needs some kind of "institutional" embodiment. otherwise, "European" is just in your head...a disembodied/spectral floating something...

@philhaji-michael8471

5 жыл бұрын

Paul Millar True. And you don’t need a UK to feel British.

@Nygaard2

5 жыл бұрын

Paul Millar ...but it helps...

@shredder9536

5 жыл бұрын

@Mark Morgan total nonsense. Africa has separate states not a political union and that does not diminish their African identity.

UK did well trading with its commonwealth partners and the USA. Australia would love to rekindle the relationship. NZ and Australia have high quality products in agriculture and mining.

@taintabird23

5 жыл бұрын

If this were true, why was the UK in such economic decline when it joined the EU in 1973?

@gloin10

5 жыл бұрын

@Anthony Whelan "UK did well trading with its commonwealth partners..."? Actually, when you examine the statistics, you soon find out that it did not. And if it does do well trading with the USA, that is because of the EU's web of sectoral trade deals with the USA.... The USA has made it crystal clear what it intends to do with the UK, once it is outside the EU; 'hardball' is the term you should look up..... The recent talks about a post-Brixit bilateral deal for flights between the two countries are evidence... "Australia would love to rekindle the relationship"? The reality, according to the Australian government, is that they place a higher priority on getting a Free Trade Agreement(FTA) with the EU. The Australians have also made it clear that any FTA with the UK will involve far freer access to the UK for their citizens. Fantasy is really not a good basis for forming national policy...

We are still European... what is he on about? We are leaving the EU, the political organisation... not drifting away geographically.

@taintabird23

5 жыл бұрын

He's talking about European as shorthand for European Union citizenship and a shared EU identity.

Funny how Scot's, welsh, and Irish nationalism are always positive ideals, But English nationalism - is portrayed as a negative? Double standard apply by the historic English haters as usual, and weird how the English ARE 84% of the British, but SOMEHOW, shouldn't have 84% of the representation in government? The English PAY for the Union , and by extension the English PAY for the EU, While the English outside of London receive the LOWEST SHARE of tax spending per head of the whole Union There is NO English Parliament/assembly, the English have the least representation per head, Yorkshire ALONE has a higher population than Scotland, more economic output than Wales, but less representation than either? The English aren't turning away from Britain by choice, we're fed up of grievances that that are hundreds of years old , being used against a generation that has never known empire, we're fed up of "Anyone but England" that "joke" wore thin years ago, The English AND Welsh voted for Brexit , BUT the BRITISH HAVE NEVER VOTED FOR THE EU, And the as the Irish showed their lack of courage by kowtowing and voting the "right" way for the EU, their derision of Brexit , can be seen as influenced by self-pity or cowardice

@gloin10

5 жыл бұрын

@Farmer ned 6 "But English nationalism - is portrayed as a negative?" Having read your self-pitying screed, it is easy to see why "...English nationalism - is portrayed as a negative..." Your claim that "...the BRITISH HAVE NEVER VOTED FOR THE EU..." says far more about the sad shadow of democracy which obtains in the UK generally. But that's your constitutional issue, and nothing to do with the EU....

Hypothetically speaking; imagine EU directives on normalising tax rates, very likely under majority EU voting. Next, neutral status for all EU countries rescinded and compulsory military service. Comment boards are often full of Nationalist extreme views, such as expel those planters back to England etc, etc. hardly reassuring. Just two points.

@taintabird23

5 жыл бұрын

Fortunately, the GFA is not bound by posts on comment boards.

@gloin10

5 жыл бұрын

@Ralph Raffles You can hypothesise as much as you like; the REALITY is that tax policy remains a NATIONAL prerogative, and will remain so UNLESS & UNTIL the member states agree UNANIMOUSLY to allow it to become an EU mandate. I'd put my money in snowstorms in Hell happening first actually..... The same applies to your lunacy about "...neutral status for all EU countries rescinded..." And your claim about "...compulsory military service." is simply silly. IF the member states UNANIMOUSLY agree to the formation of an EU military force, there will be absolutely ZERO need or wish for "...compulsory military service." A modern defence force needs well educated volunteers, who wish to serve as long term professionals. Conscripts are nothing but an expensive drain on the training system. The basic rule is that they are due to return to civilian life at about the sane time as their preliminary training finishes... An EU with a population of more than half a BILLION people would have absolutely no problem getting sufficient volunteers for its currently non-existent army, and would have absolutely no interest in conscripts...

Why is Britain leaving the EU and developing it's own trade policy a fantasy?

@freddyboy5412

5 жыл бұрын

Ok how long do you think trade deals take to be finalized?

@petercharles8799

5 жыл бұрын

It is because most EU countries struggle to imagine the world beyond Europe. I would highly recommend reading the views of European federalists on the future of Europe. You will find that they view the rise of the Asia as a threat to Europe, and that a united Europe is the only way to remain relevant on the international stage. Migration from outside of Europe is also seen as a threat, with EU countries wanting to reduce non-EU migration in favour of EU only migration. However, Brexiteers do need to accept that Europe will remain a crucial market for the UK. Britain needs to remain close to the EU (e.g. staying in the Single Market as an EFTA member) whilst gradually opening the country up to markets beyond Europe. Britain also needs to take the opportunity to pursue friendly and reciprocal trading relations, moving beyond the EU's current might is right approach.

@taintabird23

5 жыл бұрын

Because this independent trade policy will be less good than the trade deals they are leaving when they depart the EU.

@gloin10

5 жыл бұрын

@ Jolly Roger "Why is Britain leaving the EU and developing it's own trade policy a fantasy?" The reality is that the world trading system is composed to two types of player. First, there are the large national economies like India, China, the USA, and Japan. Second, there is every other country on the planet which has a functioning economy, and they are ALL either forming, or strengthening, Regional Trading Blocs(RTBs). Oh, and most of the large national economies like India, China, the USA, and Japan are also members of such RTBs. Britain has decided, in a fit of self-harming stupidity, to leave the largest, most successful and richest RTB, and strike out on its own. The reality is that any British trade policy of the future will involve two simple concepts; "How high do you want me to jump?" and "I'll drop my trousers and bend over that chair then?" A market of less than 67 million is a minnow in world trade terms. I do hope that the UK has secured an ample supply of lube....

@pinchermartyn3959

5 жыл бұрын

@Mark Morgan You hope.

It's amazing non EU Switzerland sits in the centre of the EU countries linked by roads tunnels railways and lakes and yet manages to conduct trade with everyone trouble free

@nickjames5366

5 жыл бұрын

Patricia et Colin Clegg - Switzerland is part of Schengen - so people can move freely, but it’s not frictionless trade.

@arfnore

5 жыл бұрын

In reality, Switzerland has two key bilateral treaties with the EU. The first, a bilateral cooperative trade agreement, means that Switzerland absolutely mirrors the rules and regulations of the EU with respect of all economic areas, including finance passporting. This means that Switzerland accepts the rules and regulations of the EEA (single market) without, necessarily, being involved in drafting those rules. Switzerland cannot sign third party trade agreements without consent from the EEA partners. The second bilateral agreement, signs Switzerland up to the Schengen treaty (freedom of movement) and the Dublin convention ( sharing refugees).

@helenaville5939

5 жыл бұрын

You're obviously not familiar with all the Swiss cross-border bureaucracy then. *sigh*

We're Northern Irish not Irish

@ritamcintyre8203

5 жыл бұрын

You might be. It's an individual choice. My good friend from tyrone would disagree with you.

There is a missing dimension here that is rarely recognised in discussions about Brexit, and certainly Fintan O'Toole would be unable to acknowledge it as he is stuck in his own narrative. There is an assumption that people who voted to remain in the EU did so out of some sort of love or affinity with the EU, and define their identity through EU membership, in whole or in part. There is a significant group of remain voters who voted in the vein of 'better the devil you know' at the time of the vote. I have lost count of the number of people who have told me that is how they voted, and say they have no love for the EU, they respect the vote to leave, and just want the whole matter resolved, howsoever it turns out. The potential negative impacts of leaving the EU are always highlighted by pro EU people who seem to think that the EU will keep sailing ahead, able to weather any stormy waters, and come out stronger. Not sure that is entirely the case. The future will be interesting.

@gloin10

5 жыл бұрын

@A J "There is an assumption that people who voted to remain in the EU did so out of some sort of love or affinity with the EU, and define their identity through EU membership, in whole or in part"? That would be what we call 'A Strawman Argument'.....

Do all Irish despise the very idea of Britishness or does it just seem so?

@seandoherty925

5 жыл бұрын

No. The 'British Irish' or Unionists don't. The rest of the Irish have had their identity trampled under it for hundreds of years so yes many of them do despise it. The remainder may try not to but are extremely wary and suspicious of it particularly when it appears to be in resurgent mode, as at present.

@clayfada6993

5 жыл бұрын

Mcbasil Depends on which irish your talking about the 1.8million identity is an issue if your talking about the 5million in the republic of ireland it isnt they are irish there is no identity crisis.Northern ireland you have the nationalist community who consider themselves irish only and the Unionists who consider themselves british only and thats where the conflict lies its not as being eroneously protrayed as a religious conflct.

@Tereyoc

5 жыл бұрын

Unionists always considered themselves British. A lot were brought by the British from Scotland because they were protestant. For Southern Irish, there was never much consent for British rule and a lot anti Catholic laws were brought in mid to late 1600s till late 1800s. It's more a strong yes for unionists or a why would you call me that? (southern/northern nationalist, Republican)

@helenaville5939

5 жыл бұрын

Do all British suffer from paranoia or does it just seem so?

@aine7173

5 жыл бұрын

No the Irish despise no one. We just expect to be treated with respect. Brexit shows that England care not one hute for Ulster.

not sure you know the welsh much

Upper class trying to sway people

O'Toole seems to be trying to rip apart the British identity. Meanwhile, Nesbitt has a very human and reasonable view.

Scotland is British and always will be

@adammartin7007

5 жыл бұрын

Scotland is really just Northern England. All of the haggis, deep fried heroin and skirted men won't conceal that fact.

@gloin10

5 жыл бұрын

@Robert Munro "Scotland is British..."? That is true, for the moment, in purely political terms. However, it should be pointed out that the majority of Scots no longer define themselves as such. They self-define as 'Scottish', and have increasingly done so since the early 1970s. "...and always will be"? That is almost certain to proven wrong, and might be proven wrong surprisingly quickly.

Could you just get on with it and unite already? If you don't like being British, then don't be. But for f$%k's sake grow a pair and formally agitate for a referendum and convince your southern neighbour to look after you to the tune of £11 Billion a year. If the Scottish can bang on about having a referendum every five bloody minutes, so can you - so what's stopping you?

@taintabird23

5 жыл бұрын

If you were familiar with the Good Friday / Belfast Agreement you would know there are protocols in place for this already. People in NI and the Republic will not be following your advise and rushing into unity - or doing things backwards as the English Brexiters have done. But unity will come.

From my American perspective, the pro-EU Irish seem to be oblivious regarding the current and future problems and prospects of the failing megalomaniacal EU.

@zstack86

5 жыл бұрын

Watch the video mate

@aoifed8913

5 жыл бұрын

You have enough problems of your own in America Gordon so perhaps you should focus on that first

@bluesky8869

5 жыл бұрын

Gordon Morris Let me guess, you voted for Trump?

@hughmckendrick3018

5 жыл бұрын

Ireland has done considerably well out of the EU.

@philhaji-michael8471

5 жыл бұрын

Had a bit of a Fox News overdose have we? 😂😂😂😂 Think you need some facts Gordon.

Finton O'Toole needs to spend more time in England before he spouts more of his nonsense about English nationalism. And after that he should go to Wales and work out why they also voted to leave the EU. But he's a nationalist so it shouldn't be a surprise that he sees everything through a nationalistic lens.

@zstack86

5 жыл бұрын

Fintan O'Toole has spent 30 years speaking out and very forcefully criticising Irish nationalists, Google his name and Gerry Adams, you'll find dozens of hits, all critical

@bluesky8869

5 жыл бұрын

How does Wales voting (in majority) to leave the EU negate or undermine the fact that English nationalism played a clear causal role in the Brexit referendum?

@robsmith7567

5 жыл бұрын

He's absolutely right about the myopia of Brexit.

@helenaville5939

5 жыл бұрын

+ZJ Stack. He never criticized nationalists, only republicans. Big difference. But the comment above yours is just typical Brexiter gibberish so you're wasting your time even replying to it.

@aine7173

5 жыл бұрын

Please Brexit happen. Please go as quick as you can. Everyone is so sick of Englands nasty struck up Brexiters. Who expect to leave the club and still have use of all the facilities. God help the rest who wanted to stay.