The key here is using your body weight to control the center of gravity of the bike+rider. Footpeg weighting is a symptom of moving your bodyweight off the side of the bike. Gravity doesnt care how you are touching the bike, all that matters is the body's center of gravity relative to the bike's.

@stevecsongvay3455

6 ай бұрын

Well said.

What you're doing is leaning the bike to the inside for more lean angle and leaning your body to the outside to counterbalance for which you're correct. What Brett was doing is keeping the bike more upright so he doesn't need to introduce any lean angle if possible and in his case to keep the bike upright his body was pushed to the inside, that's why his right knee was pushed against the tank on a left turn. HE is correct and YOU are correct. Two different techniques. I would use his technique during a bit faster off-road turns and I use your technique during slow off-road turns.

@SileX406coup

Жыл бұрын

Spot on! 👍

@vishnuvenugopal4303

Жыл бұрын

Perfect explanation. 👌

@jalex19100

Жыл бұрын

Yes! I do lean like this (counterbalance with body weight, etc) at lower speeds and practically do all the steering with my feet, but for a high speed drift around a turn, I found it to be safest with the bike more upright and weight on the outside peg and leg pushing in - this is when I think of Brett’s tips. It took me a bit of practice and it still surprises me how well it works.

@kosta16auto

Жыл бұрын

@@jalex19100 It's funny how Pavey came to chritisize one of the experts. He could just share his low speed approach which is still very applicable. He must have not advised with his father on this one. But who cares, we are making comments here and that what he is looking.

This lines up with a lot of what I've learned. I think a lot of new riders hear "weight the outside peg" and fail to understand that you have to weight the INSIDE peg to make quick maneuvers, but you don't stay on that peg as you make longer or sharper turns.

@hoosiertrailrider

Жыл бұрын

This may help. Don't think of weighting the peg, but rather un-weighting the peg. If your riding in a straight line lifting the foot pressure off the left peg will make your bike go right. This maneuver is best used for quick adjustments to direction. Not meant to be carried longer than a second or two.

@ModularMuscle

Жыл бұрын

the weighting the outside footpeg mucked me up for the first 6 months. the bike felt like it was fighting me. now I'm starting to get when to, but still tricky.

@oosteveo315

Жыл бұрын

adv coaches really need to be offroad racers or motocrossers.

@CharlesLindsay1

Жыл бұрын

@@hoosiertrailrider you probably are a skier, too, aren’t you? Un-weighting is the term they use, for the same reason. It works well in that context, because the skis have so little “suspension”: most of that “unweighting” work is done with our bodies, as Llew shows in this vid.

@Revy8

Жыл бұрын

@@oosteveo315 100%. Too many opinions from people who barely know how to ride. All these techniques have been well documented over the years by pros. Ever since I started moving towards ADV from enduro/motox I'm shocked by the amount of mediocre riders giving questionable advice

If we take a look at the most technical off-road discipline, mototrials, we can see that footpeg weighting is one of the fundamentals of off-road riding.

@YouTenaza

Жыл бұрын

Not just offroad. On pavement is also a must to understand.

@scheun2

Жыл бұрын

Good point

@bonzaralph

Жыл бұрын

Yep. You nailed it.

@DennisGarage

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, on a trials bike you rarely ride with actual gyroscopic forces at the wheels stabilising you. transfering that to faster riding or even street riding is a dangerous thing to believe in.

@YouTenaza

Жыл бұрын

@@DennisGarage even at "high speeds" your weight should be handled by your feet/knees more than your ass, because it has no ways to respond to changes in balance.

Honestly, I think the different techniques are BOTH/AND rather then EITHER/OR. Bret emphasizes riders employ a "weightless" approach with different techniques & body positions to control bike stability & improve confidence. These are starting points for learning how to receive feedback from the bike in various conditions that can then support more assertive riding by weighting the footpegs which requires the understanding of body positions to deploy mass. In other words, if one starts weighting the pegs without complementary body position to balance the bike, the see-saw may do what we don't want.

Thanks for this this Llel, I might finally understand this concept! I started trail riding a year ago and I've been very confused by this. I've been on training days with 4 different off road schools and they've all said something different. Bret's videos are great but that one confused me although I've been taught something similar elsewhere also. The first time I went trail riding (on an ADV bike) I was told to weight the inside peg to turn and then move the weight to the outside to balance the bike (no mention of weighting the outside peg). This was an intro to trail riding so they were giving us some basics to survive a day of trail riding. The next place (on a dirt bike) said to weight the outside peg to turn which on its own just turns you towards the outside. When I went to a more prestigious enduro school I was told to turn like Bret - essentially to turn in by going up on your toes on the outside peg and turning in with your outside knee and move your body to the outside (similar to what my back leg would be doing in a golf swing follow through or when turning in skiing). I found this difficult and confusing as up to this point I'd been turning by weighting the inside peg and pushing my knee into the tank didn't do a whole log for me except make me eat mud. I mentioned that I previously was taught to weight the inside peg to turn (and that's what was working for me) and I was told that that is known as "tip in" turning and is used more on ADV bikes - you weight the inside peg to tip the bike then transfer your weight to the outside peg as you lean towards the outside to balance the bike. They said to just skip the step and turn in with the knee. These guys also told me to go up on my toes when going uphill and the rest of the time have my heels down (I'm not sure if going uphill is an exception to the heels down rule). I've tried what Bret suggested but that really didn't work for me. Clinton Smout (who's often on Adventure Rider Radio) says to weight the inside peg (he demos by taking a foot off the peg and you'll turn the opposite direction). kzread.info/dash/bejne/nKOGx8qMps-Tcaw.html Until your video no one has addressed what I think is the missing piece of the puzzle for me, that speed and lean angle come into play which makes a lot of sense. For me weighting the inside peg makes sense to get the bike tipped into a turn. Also I understand that if the bike is leaned over you need to slide your body to the outside to balance the bike and also prevent the bike slipping. Sooooo, If I understand correctly then, I should weight the inside peg for course adjustments, gentler turns and say initiating a tighter turn. If I'm doing a slow tighter turn the bike will need to lean more so AFTER it is tipped in enough with inside peg weighting I would then move my weight to the outside peg as I would have had to move my body to the outside more to balance also? Having my weight on the outside peg at a greater lean would also help dig the tyres in and prevent slipping also. Sound about right or have I confused myself more? 🙃

Going from riding a mountain bike to an adventure moto I was super confused by the argument not to weight the peg. On an MTB if you're really railing a corner, you put all your weight through the outside pedal, a lot like the counterbalance point of this video, and that really translates to the moto. I figured I was just teaching myself bad habits using the pegs a lot, so it's nice to see this video, thansk!

@streddaz

Жыл бұрын

It's different on a bermed corner though where you do put pressure on the outside (or evenly between the two) as because you are technically pushing off the bank of the berm. On a flat corner you lean the bike and not yourself and you are weighting the inside pedal more but in the flat position rather than pedal down if that makes sense. This is the same on a motorcycle, except the pegs stay level.

@HandyTot

Жыл бұрын

@@streddaz I respectfully disagree, or maybe I'm misunderstanding your view. Berms are more of a pedals flat, keep your bike perpendicular to the berm. Flat corners drop a pedal and keep your weight on the outside foot to keep the pressure on the side knobs and pressing the bike into the ground. Both types the goal is to keep your weight perpendicular to the contact patch and both rely on outside weight to achieve that, berms are just easier/allow you to carry much greater speed. Sure there's a moment of inside weight to initiate the lean of the bike, but you always want to put the pressure on the outside and keep that weight perpendicular.

@streddaz

Жыл бұрын

@@HandyTot after thinking about it some more I think you are right. You would think it would be the same for a motor bike except the different heights of the pedals.🤔

@boriskalaber7638

Жыл бұрын

Exactly as Travis Rea said, that`s correct technique

@tommeyer6033

Жыл бұрын

@@HandyTot "keep your weight perpendicular to the contact patch"... a unifying concept/technique?

You and Bret are both describing different techniques to acomplish the same task. I do prefer yours, but both work. To make a bike turn there has to be lean, there are different ways to make the bike lean. Countersteer and weight transfer of the rider alone. If you are one mass with the bike, then moving your mass will initiate the lean. If you are floating (seperate masses) then adding weight the bike 'sees' at the pegs (or any other place) will initate a lean. Street riders usually ride as one with the bike, and off road riders will usually ride 'above' the bike. This is due to the amount of surface traction available. Counter steering. When you do this inertia causes the mass to rotate around the center of the steering column. Front tire forward rolling resistance is increased by the rider input and inertia carries the rear mass forward around this center, the bike tries to fold itself up, causing the lean. No right or wrong, just different techniques to accomplish the same task.

@babar69110

Жыл бұрын

thnaks to point it ! the floating masses are anythng to consider, as sustentation triangle base of footpegs is really short..

@razvanmargineanu

Жыл бұрын

I think countersteering makes the bike react a lot faster than weight on pegs.

@ChimairaRise

Жыл бұрын

Counter steering is an essential part of riding no matter what other techniques you employ. Not really comparable to the others.

I watched another YT channel explaining footage weighting rather than body position changing. Have been using this technique for last few months and off-road work as now so much easier. It reminds me of the technique used when skiing - moving weight from foot-to-foot brings about change in direction. I now feel way more stable cornering and negotiating off-road.

So basically I weight my inside peg to help initiate lean angle and turning but during the turn I always weight my outside peg for better downward force of the part of the tyre that has contact for better traction, especially on loose or slippery surfaces

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. That is exactly how it works.

@HippieRedneck666

Жыл бұрын

Exactly

@babar69110

Жыл бұрын

doing this you are moving your body gravity center first on right, elaning bike then counterbalance on left ... Nothing special, just primary school physics... NOw I wait for some guys to tell to press tank with knees on fast curves to prevent bike moving :) :) Because everyone knows that 3 kg pressure by knees will rigidify a steekl or aluminium frame. same old story there : press your knees, you will stop locking the hande bars, making a PIO... Press your peg : it will force you to move your body

It is great to see an expert explain and show the how too. Shame I'm crap off road.

I love mini-tip Monday. I often do what you were doing around the 3:00 minute mark in the video. Basically maneuvering the bike just by weighting the footpegs. I need to practice it more. Thanks for the video!

I agree with some of the other commenters here, body position is what matters. To take this to an extreme, go back to your example where you are standing on only one peg. Steer in a bunch of different directions, while only standing on one peg. You can do it. 100% of your weight on one peg, you can still steer a bit left, a lot left, or steer right. Footpeg weighting is a cue, and yes, biomechanically, a lot of good body position comes with weight moving between the footpegs, but that isn't the CAUSE.

I've tried to follow what Brett has said on the matter, and now you - but it's extremely difficult to separate what the feet and body are doing with handlebar inputs. Especially if you don't want to fall over. :D Even the physics can get complicated (and physicists love nothing more than simplifying things radically) because not only is the weight of your body, while standing, supported by the pegs (modeling this, just replace the rider with variable masses on the pegs) but once you start moving around the knees are pressing against the bike you have to account for those forces along with what is going on at the handle bars. I'd rather walk at this point! LOL

@omicrondec

Жыл бұрын

This is what helped me for technical, low-speed, and off-road/slippery surfaces: Steer with your feet. Use your bodyweight to shove the bike around underneath you. Shove it wherever you want to go! Once leaned over, counterbalance the outside foot peg. Bike leans; you don't. You're in command, so look the part by being tall on top of the bike. Get up over the bars whenever you need to assert your dominance.

@stavrozinio

Жыл бұрын

stand up on a rolling bike, release the handlebars and try lifting one foot. physics will self-explain very fast.

@ronboe6325

Жыл бұрын

@@stavrozinio LOL

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

@@stavrozinio absolutely

@TheNextThing

Жыл бұрын

@@stavrozinio On the other hand, go into a slightly left banking turn, let go of the handlebars and apply right foot pressure, physics will also help understand that foot pressure is only small part of the equation.

💯% agree with your advice in the video! Weighting the pegs properly makes all the difference in handling the bike. I especially liked your information about avoiding excessive knee bending. There is much more control of the bike when your legs hold it.

Peg weighting and riding in a position that allows light pressure on the handle bars is the key to riding off-road. Think of riding a horse, no handlebars. If you have too much pressure on your bars you know your out of position. Basically it’s when I know I’m getting tired and if I have to correct myself a few times I stop and rest.

@1998TDM

Жыл бұрын

That's a damn fine analogy.

Great video! I've been trying to apply these "knee pressure and hips way outside of the bike" technique without success. The bike just doesn't turn. And then I found some other videos (and now yours) explaining the peg weighting and tried it. It works like a cham to me! I have way more control of the bike during turns. Thanks for the content.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

I've tested the footpeg pressure method and it's brilliant. You really feel the bike responding. I combined this with keeping my body upright and working on heels down into the turn. Think I'm getting there! Got an off-road training course in two weeks. Crash bars, Barkbusters and Mitas are on! It's now or never!

Thank you Llewellyn! Couldn’t agree more. It is a tricky thing to explain the nuances of footpeg weighting - where, when, how much etc. Well done!

Foot peg pressure is extremely important in off road riding. In fact moving and placing your weight in different ways is the key to maintaining good control in all situations. A good comparison to how to weight your pegs is down hill skiing. What happens if you put your weight on the inside ski in a turn? You usually go down pretty quickly. The same can happen riding off road. You need that weight where you can make small adjustments to control the turn. While you can initiate a maneuver weighting the inside peg, control comes from weighting the outside peg. In short knowing where and how to move your weight and where to put pressure on the motorcycle is the key to maintaining good control and allowing good speed. Experience (practice) is the only way to learn this. It took me years of motocross racing to get this, but with a little practice anyone can improve their off road riding.

Llewellyn you make it seem so easy and short but this could be a much longer major tip video! add in the sitting, add in the steering with the back end. Such a hard concept to nail at times when at speed in the tight stuff but seems so easy to explain and understand. Another great topic and great explanation from you, thank you

Hi Llewellyn! At times I’m practicing riding trails with one hand, skidding through gravel turns and such. On the rare occasions when I succeed, I forget my one hand riding and only steer with pegs. I would say that when I don’t upset the bike with a million contradictory inputs and simply do it all through the pegs, the bike seems the most satisfied 😃

@1998TDM

Жыл бұрын

Yup, i just posted about evasion maneuvers, we were eventually "encouraged" to do them with our left hand in the air. Bloody terrifying at 50kmh +. Out on the trails I often find myself steering with my feet, no conscious input through the bars.

Very interesting and informative, seems like a combination of the centered body over the bike and foot peg pressure plus moving forward and backwards to compress or decompress the front wheel when needed. Basically know what is needed and when it is needed and doing it properly. All very difficult for a newbie.

This makes sense to me as I’ve found I feel much more planted weighting the outside peg. I also find myself going faster.

Good one! I realise now why I was waving one foot in the air on the Lands End Trial last weekend!

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

😂

There is a school of thought that also says - weighting the OUTSIDE peg after when already in the turn can increase traction - especially travelling fast on gravel type conditions. I tried it and it seems to make sense. Of course you still need to weight the inside peg to initiate any turn - like you say. I also heard that 'dropping your heal' is one way to think about changing weight - which seems to be what you do anyway and that also makes sense. Hey I'm no expert though - and I love your explanations please keep them coming!

Good video. The important thing is getting the bike to lean while remaining balanced and floating. You need both countersteer and footpeg weight to keep the bike tracking correctly, and you have to transfer your own weight to the bike effectively so you remain in control.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Well said!

Great mini tip Monday. Very well explained. Thanks

Excellent video and excellent content and instructional points. Switching from an Africa Twin DCT, I struggle with for weight management in a turn while shifting gears. Practice is the key I am sure. However, it might be a good topic for a future video.

Weighting the outside peg during a turn helps leverage the bike into the turf, especially helpful in low grip situations. Same holds true with Mtn Bikes, weight on the outside pedal and low really makes the bike dig in. Same with skiing, you weight the outside ski in turns. The more your bike weighs, the less of an effect the outside weighting will have, but it will always have some affect. I think what Brett was addressing was the whole “Center of gravity/mass” thing, looking at the bike and rider as a unit. When I test an off-road machine, one of the key things I look for is how well it responds to “foot steering”. In my book, the more a bike responds to left/right peg weighting, the more I like it.

Amen - this is also one reason large footpegs are so helpful off-road. An easy exercise (and I forgot where I saw it) is to ride in a straight line and stand on one leg and then the other, and feel how the bike responds. That was an a-ha moment for me, because you could really feel how that could be applied to feeling “light” off-road.

@StoltHD

Жыл бұрын

the bike want move if your body mass is in line with the center of mass for the bike, it is first and only then, when you move your body mass out of the centerline that the bike will change direction. When you in low speed lean the bike right and stand on the left peg with most of your body mass on the left peg, what you actually are doing is to counter balance by moving the center of mass to compensate for the force of gravity because the rotation torque of the bikes mass (the force that always work in the opposite direction of the turn) in the combination with the force of movement is not strong enough to counter the force of gravity, to keep the bike from falling, you need to move the center of total mass "to the outside" of the bike. Do a test, stand on the left peg, lean your body to the right and see which direction the bike start moving. Observe also the lean on the bike is near equal to non-existence. Give the bike a little counter steering to the right while your body mass still is on the right side of the bike, and the bike will start leaning to the left and do a left turn, if you manage to "stay" on the left peg and hold your mass on the right side of the bike, the turn is in balance, same as if you "stay" on the right peg, if your body of mass is moved to the left side of the bike, the bike and you will fall if the force of rotation and force of movement don't change to counter for the raised force of gravity. This is the Laws of Physics and it is exactly the same for mountain biking, downhill biking, track race, motocross, gravel riding, street riding etc. and it apply to any vehicle that have the same wheel geometry that is commonly used today.

From physics point of view lots of things are happening around a bike. It's not just pressure and weight and they are not the same. It's about controlling your bike and your self each by them self and both connected. That's where you AND Bret have your portion of "being right". Stay save and have a great life.

If physics was taught like that at school, I'd have taken a lot more notice... Thank you, Professor Pavey. Safe, happy travels 👍

@babar69110

Жыл бұрын

well i hope you learnt sustenttion triangle.. because the base of thos triangle done by footpegs is ridiculously narrow compared to top triangle made by body mass center gravity ;) ;)

The only way you can weight a peg is by shifting your body position, so Brett is correct that body position is what matters. The peg weighting is simply a result of body position relative to bike position. You may think you are weighting a peg without shifting body position and initiating a turn, but all you are actually doing is pushing on the peg and reacting that force with your hands at the bars and thus adding steering input. There is some transient force transfer into the pegs that occurs due to the inertial effects of accelerating and decelerating your body mass when adjusting positions, but that is still reliant on adjusting your body position.

Thanks for this video! I’m a lifetime street rider transitioning to some dirt gravel roads on my AT. It’s a new world for me, but I found peg weighting really helped me ride more confidently in the loose stuff. Some commentators equate it to skiing which hits home for me.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Right on! Pretty similar.

If anyone doubts the wisdom in this try and turn a trials bike without peg weighting. the little bugger will fight against you every inch of the way. Use the pegs and it flops round like a tired puppy. Quite a revelation for me. I was also taught to use peg weighting for evasion maneuvers on a road bike, really helps to speed up the initial turn and helps massively bringing the bike back in the opposite direction. Another revelation.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Exactly Mark. It would seem from the comments that this wisdom is argued to the grave though 😂

I think this is great information. I've been using using this technique a lot and I feel that I've improve on some of the more technical trails in my area.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Hope it helps 👌

I've done a lot of mucking about with this, and I don't agree. "footpeg pressure" seems to be a way of explaining locating you body's centre of gravity in a particular place. If you keep your CoG constant and vary footpeg pressure it doesn't do anything. It can't do anything. If you vary footpeg pressure and use the bars to keep yourself stable, the bike turns. If you vary footpeg pressure without bar input you must compensate by moving your CoG or pressure on the inside of your weighted leg, or you'll fall off. So what you're really doing if you weight pegs without holding yourself still with your knee, is shifting your weight around. Generally if you shift your weight around you'll put input into the bars without realising. So you're really just steering. PS, if footpeg weighting did anything bicycles would be almost impossible to control. The weighting jumps from side to side constantly. Yet I can ride around quite comfortably hands off the bars. Despite the steep steering head angle, short rake, short wheelbase and narrow tyres with the peg weighting jumping around like a mad thing.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

In this video, I ride along and change direction by taking my foot off the peg without moving and the bike turns. You can feel this by riding no hands or with one hand on the handlebar. I also made a video about that if it helps 😊 Also, pedalling a bicycle does affect the direction. That's why they get smoother at speed or with smoother pedal strokes. When you try and ride slowly without hands it's really touch. Gyroscopic effect of the wheels balances out your side to side movement as you speed up. When you ride a mtb, pedal pressure is very important for control for the same reason as it is on am off road motorcycle.

@gasdive

Жыл бұрын

​@@BrakeMagazine if you're talking about 2:07 I can see you clearly shifting your weight swinging your head and rotating your body. That might feel like "weighting the pegs" and certainly the weight on the pegs is changing, but you're also clearly steering. It's not a clear case of holding your hands and body still, and changing the weighting. If you feel like "weighting the pegs" is easier to teach, or works for you as a mental model, that's fine, but it's not what is actually happening.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

It looks like that because when the bikes lean changes, the steering moves in the direction. That's what happens when you countersteer on the road too. You're counter steering to make it lean. The front wheel doesn't keep point right while you're going left. When you lean a bike using the footpegs you create the same effect. Also, weighting the pegs is moving your body weight to apply it to one peg more than the other. My body has to move to do that. It doesn't work at speed because the force isn't as effective at overcoming the momentum and gyroscopic effect in the same way. I would also like to point out this is not my 'theory', this is commonly accepted, commonly taught and understood by almost every experienced off road rider on the planet. 😊

There is lots going on when we ride, we can use peg weighting for turning AND traction. Bret with the high ankle, weight on ball of foot on right peg going around a left turn works too. In sand and when drifting, outside peg weight can be key to traction, Great discussion, thanks for the video. Love your bike too!!

As a motorcycle instructor in Swe, I've been learned to teach this way, 32 years ago. So 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I’ve watched Brett s few times and he is a good rider but my experience of his videos is that he doesn’t know what makes him a good rider and he is teaching something he is not actually doing….. vote for Llel. Vote for: Pedro

In a turn a centrifugal force acts to the outside of the turn through the COMBINED centre of gravity of the bike and your body. Shift your body one way and you have to shift the bike the other way to maintain a constant turn. Physics only cares about your body position with regard to what effect it has on the COMBINED centre of gravity. Stand with your feet apart and try to weight your left foot by just lifting your right foot. You will fall to the right. You have to transfer your weight to your left foot by FIRST pushing with your right foot to transfer weight to your left foot. If you try this with you hands off the handlebars the turn will be pretty sluggish. Combining a little counter steering with the handlebars and weight transfer on the pegs is more effective. Once you are in a stable turn If you weight the inside peg in a turn and fall it will be hard to lift your foot off the peg and step out to prevent it being caught under the bike. If your weight is on the outside peg it is much easier to step away from the bike.

Excellent video very well made, Thank you ❤❤

A Reiman 1 has a great lesson about "relaxing the chassis"

Agree, I see it as counterweight turning and it works well. Also I feel like the center weight is lower on the bike making it more stable than up on the seat.

Recently I've been spend a lot of time practising static balancing on my bike in my garage whilst winter rages outside, I had a real break through concentrating on foot peg pressure instead of side to side upper body movement which is still useful but combined with foot peg pressure I'm now able to balance for extended periods of time, no doubt its every bit as important when the bike is moving

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Boom. Good job Martin! It's super hard to static balance.

@StoltHD

Жыл бұрын

All you do is still moving your body mass out of center of mass to counter gravity. It is just the feeling you have, you move bigger parts of your body, but less, the effect is the same and has nothing to do with the weight on the peg, only the placement of your body mass... When you move a bigger part of your body mass, you will use more energy and you will be tired faster.

@natearchuleta2003

Жыл бұрын

Practicing functional skills is a win. I might do that today if it keeps storming.

@DirtRiderLife

Жыл бұрын

@@StoltHD When moving weight from one peg to another the centre of pressure is changing, for sure there has to be some upper body movement which will also move the centre of mass but moving the centre of pressure has a much greater effect by applying a moment that tends to rotate the bike in the desired direction

@StoltHD

Жыл бұрын

@@DirtRiderLife - Pressure on the pegs has nothing to do with controlling the bike... You can repeat it a thousand times, it doesn't make it anymore the truth. The only thing that controls the bike in this regard is movement of mass, if you twist your body and "push" your knee on the tank, you are still moving or trying to move the center of total mass. the twisted upper body has changed the plasement of that mass, the with the knee you use muscle energy to force replacement of the mass of the bike, and totally you have moved the total mass' center of gravity, how much depends on how much you actually move your body and how much energy you use to force the replacement of the bikes mass. In addition, you will, in most cases when your twist your upper body also affect the contact you have with the handlebars of the motorcycle one way or the other

Same said to us a guy named Francesco Meoni (rip) during a lesson years ago. You don't ride with arms... you ride with feet. You arms can't hold 200kg over bikes... nor 100kg for hours. As a skier.. i can agree. Is like skiing

Recently I got really confused by various tips on footpeg weighting. There are enduro riders that recommend the boot further back on the peg to allow for heel to be able to go up and down. Of course giving the bike throttle does not allow that as you then have to pull hard on the bars to avoid being thrown off the bike. Moreover, tiptoing on the peg does not allow you to change gears or brake. Then there is left-right weighting. When cornering I was advised to keep most of the weight on the outer peg so that when the bike starts sliding you are pushing it down and not allowing it to slide too far. However, to initiate an offroad turn, they tell you to push on the inner peg. Darn confusing when to put pressure where and at which point to switch from one to the other.

The most crucial time that I use peg weighting is for picking lines. Sure, your overall direction and turning ability is more important, but when I'm at speed in technical terrain, I use dramatic peg weighting to "guide" my t7's front wheel to favorable ground, with minimal change to the overall direction of the bike

Absolutely correct I rode ISDE for years and peg pressure is vital. I have found a other things he talks about is incorrect also . When I got my endorsement they teach things incorrectly also . Like putting all four fingers on levers for one.

Some seem to suggest weighting the inside foot, others the outside foot to "put down" traction on the inside of the tire. I'm wondering if this isn't two seperate moments of inertia and force. Do we initiate an inside turn with the inside foot (heel down, as you show) and then, once in the turn, weight the outside to put traction stright down to the inside of the tire, the part now in connection to the track? Like countersteering on the road, the turn is initiated by pushing on the opposite side of the handlabar, but it transitions, and the turn is navigated with the pressure on the bars moving to the inside. Considering the inertia and forces are changing dynamically in both instances, dirt and road, while the traction is negotiated differently in each case as the turn continues. Does this make sense? Am I wrong? What do you think? Perhaps a follow up video?

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

That is exactly correct.

u are right %100 and sometimes while turning counterstrike doesnt enough riding stand up and also u need push inner peg and turn easily so ı learn late but use inner outside peg is necesesarry

Voice of reason!!❤ well done to you son for being a free thinker 👍🏻

The other thing is... you dont have to be standing up to achieve foot peg pressure. In the seated and squat position you can easily put 100lbs pressure on one peg or the other, keep your hips loose and let the bike move. No need to stand for 500kms of gravel road.

A graphics Kit form Brake magazine for that Black Tenere world raid would be nice...

Well, seeing how you and Bret, as well as Motojitsu are a world away from my skills, I'll just have to try and distill it all down to my level. But by all means, keep the content coming.

@heremansmarc

Жыл бұрын

Nothing compared to Tom Barrer in France. Even if you don't understand French, you can see that his technique is exceptionnal. He has many video's off road with a GSA 1250.

@domenik8339

Жыл бұрын

Brett is a clown with incredibly little experience for being an "instructor."

I employ both methods. I weight the peg to induce lean on the bike. If the turn is minimal, I let the bike roll through and normalize at the straight. If the turn requires more lean, I use Bret's technic to lean the bike and open myself (my uppper body, straight arm at the outside bar and weight on the oustide peg). The point is to drive the center of gravity through the knob to ensure traction is maintained through the turn.

Most of my riding is sitting. Most distances covered are over 400klm dirt roads. I move my body weight. When roads get crappy I stand and balance with the foot pegs as discussed.

Well done, I use footpeg weighting all the time

Agreed, I'm a big fan and student of Brett's channel and I've been to one of his clinics as well, but his video about foot peg weighting never made sense to me.

for a long time I was trying to blindly follow Bret´s foot pegs weighing technique and I was still much slower in corners than some other riders. Two weeks ago I had a discussion about the foot pegs weighing and I was told that I am completely wrong. So thank you ! :)

@jonbrandt9141

Жыл бұрын

Bret's advice is focused for beginners, especially those who have not yet developed an effective intuitive sense of balance and manipulation of the bike. A rider who does, should move on from these intentionally exaggerated techniques. Two [mental exercise] perspectives of the same undeniable truth of physics. The more perspectives you try, the better you will see the whole picture. Always a beginner's mind = open to new perspectives.

@andrewstambaugh240

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. It's like telling new street riders to "not use your brakes in a corner". Once you are past the new rider stage, you start learning that trail braking is really helpful for street safety margins.

The idea behind sitting vs standing is When in sitting position, the weight is up higher, the CG is higher. When the rider is in standing position, the CG is lower and the "ground effects" if you will the down force is LOWER on the bike compared to sitting. To turn or change direction off road depending on the "grip" or traction the rider weights the outside foot and the inside leg is out in front not to catch you but as a counter balance... But by weighting the outside foot while turning, It applies down force directly on the contact patch of the tire in contact with the ground in the turn... Best way i can explain it. Now depending on your tire choice will determine how good of traction you will get... now doing that on an 800lbs adv bike is something different but same physics.. Just my 50+ yrs of riding and racing dirtbikes...

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

This is so accurate.

Steering with your feet is a fundamental skill that must be mastered to stay upright when trail riding. To some it comes natural but I’ve had to learn it and am constantly practicing it in the hope that it becomes instinctive.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Me too. It's also more nuanced that I ever appreciated. Recently did a trials demo and it opened my eyes to a whole other way of thinking about it. 😊

Yep , i follow Bret and he's a good fella and a great instructor .. but i thought myself that the weight on the pegs sometimes matters a little just because i'm used to do that while riding on gravel with my motorbike ... Thank you for the video from Italy

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Well said

@Milaventuras1000

Жыл бұрын

Nope, not a little bit, in some cases it's the only way to steer...

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

@@Milaventuras1000 for sure.

Totally! This is so hard to explain, because if you've spent a lot of time on off-road bikes its totally instinctive and very different to fast road/track riding. Which is also quite different from leisurely road riding... If in doubt, get an instructor!

If you want to turn left (on dirt/off road or at slow speeds to tighten a turn) you put weight on the right peg. Turning right is the opposite. This action is complemented by pushing the bars in the opposite direction. This then forces the bike to lean the opposite direction and you are then effectively a counterbalance the centre of the bike’s gravity when it’s leaning. I’m not sure a see-saw is a helpful analogy when it’s a simple matter of counterbalancing the bike laterally.

Bret's technique works better for him because license plates are smaller in the US. Adam Riemann does everything backwards because he's upside down in Australia. 🙂

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Easily the best comment so far 😂 Pinned for sure.

I thought the purpose of weighting the outside peg while there is some lean angle is to help apply a moment force driving the tires into the ground, so that small losses of traction and disconnections from the ground are corrected more quickly, providing better traction and (more importantly) predictability in off-road conditions.

@BrakeMagazine

4 ай бұрын

It absolutely is and makes a big difference. It’s not the only reason but is a big part of it.

Counter balance also prevents the tires from sliding out from under you is loose situations!

I did some driving course and after practice time I knew that they taught me some things wrong. There are always better teachers than others. In Spain the best is CORA Canarias in those wonderful islands. I say this in case someone wants to combine tourism and fun on a motorcycle hehe!

54 years ago I surprised the DMV Inspector by performing a circle in one lane when he offered two😮. Didn't know I had been riding Trials for the previous two years.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Amen

I think his point is that it psychological if I recall. "Pressure" doesn't really change the "weighting." It's where you move your body. That changes the balance or "weighting." It's in your head. But if that helps you change your balance, then it's great.

I didn’t see the Bret video but from reading the comments pushing the bike with you knees works great in slow speeds ir even fast speeds with loose traction but it also forces you to weight the outside peg as you push the tank. I believe it is combination of both if you want to get to a bigger turn angle.

Moto Jitsu mentions counter weighting quite a bit, especially in low speed maneuvers. It makes sense

Lol. You can’t have the correct body position, and not weight the pegs like you’re suggesting. Hence, Bret’s point is correct, the weighting is an output of body positioning and it’s the body positioning that is key. I give you credit for having the balls to say Bret is wrong though.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

It's an interesting point Ryan, but I disagree. Brett isn't weighting the pegs as effectively as he could be here because of his position. I don't make the rules man 🤣 I'm sure he's a great rider, there is tons of footage of him in difficult places but we can also disagree on these things.

@ryanmalone2681

Жыл бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine You’re using one clip to make your point. I’m sure we could find a clip of you not having perfect body positioning. Just because you can find a single example, it doesn’t invalidate his point. You’re just cherry picking to try and substantiate the title of your video. Come on man.

@fushki

Жыл бұрын

@@BrakeMagazine talking about how his positions are bad and drain energy. I agree with you... but maybe he is exaggerating things to show a point.

@MeerkatADV

Жыл бұрын

@@ryanmalone2681 He's not just cherry picking, there are plenty of examples of bad body positioning in basically every one of Brets videos. Bret isn't a bad rider, but there are plenty of times he's getting away with bad positioning through other skills. The main point is that Brets argument about peg weighting and body positioning while standing are wrong.

@ryanmalone2681

Жыл бұрын

@@MeerkatADV The point is that the correct body positioning weights the pegs, not whether the weighting of pegs is important or not.

Whatever input we can manipulate that keeps the wheels rotational mass traveling in the direction we want, at the speed we want, is the key but yes adjust our weight through the pegs or counter steering are fundamental to controlling a bike. Then, I'm the odd guy that doesn't use my knees against the bike, I strictly rely on the pegs, the handlebars and my body's position on the bike.

I think you've dramatically understated the effect of steering input during your demonstrations here. While street and dirt riding are quite different, the No BS bike (look it up if you are unfamiliar) makes it quite clear just how much impact you can have on turning with body weight. In short, not very damn much. Everyone has a strong opinion on this because of perceptions they get while riding, but it takes some sophisticated science to extract steering from body input. If you had done your demonstration with your hands free of the bars I'd be more convinced.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

I'll do it.

Hi! I'm a beginner in off-road. And all the videos I'm watching are quite confusing. So, to my understanding: 1/ Very short turns (not a U-turn), quite slow pace (around 20-30 km/h) : pressure on outside peg (inside leg can be away from peg as a security guard), body weight outside turn, pushing the handlebar inside turn, sitting as much as possible on the front of bike. Position a bit like Supermotard ? 2/ Larger turns, faster pace: pressure on inside peg, standing on the bike. What position for the body ?

Found this really interesting Llewelyn especially being a sportsman level rider, Rich T / Teamsnapper

PS. You are so much calmer than the man with a cap.

How's that Tenere working for you?

Excellent presentation.

Great! Thanx! No doubt on that! Save riding for all of us! 🍀🙏🍀

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Bit extreme but thanks 🤣

Yes you are so right and I can’t understand why someone would say different.

When snow skiing you weight the right ski to turn right, or is it the other way around. Haven't two planked since I learned to ride (board). Same principle, though.

@BrakeMagazine

11 ай бұрын

Otherway around. Weight the outside ski. Left weight turns right.

Bret's a great rider and presenter. However, what you are saying is more in line with what another, ahem, notable ADV rider/instructor (Mr. Birch) teaches. I can't be accountable for all of the physics involved, but it's clear that the tools in the kit include counter steering, leaning and counter-weighting, and good use of the footpegs, with efficiency. I am 100% sure you're correct on that. In my experiences on the street, footpeg pressure takes on a little bit lower importance (at customary street speeds, with good traction). But in the dirt, in my experience, on any bike ranging from a mountain bike to large ADV, footpeg (or pedal, as the case may be) pressure seems to take on a larger (and crucial) importance.

i think weighting the footpegs does have its place. but its definitely not way to turn or to initiate a turn ;

@mannyechaluce3814

Жыл бұрын

yes, it only applies when you are standing :D you can't do this sitting down :D being able to stand while riding a motorcycle is key for very uneven surfaces

@Angry-Lynx

Жыл бұрын

@@mannyechaluce3814 non sequitur

the point being its all about counter weight not peg weight but. the peg is just the attachment point of your weight, you only got three options be natural aka center over the bike or you can be counter weighted aka on outside of bike aka opposite the lean... or you can be on the inside or toward the lean... when it comes down to it, this all depends on the traction available.

When I saw Brett's video, I knew he was not quite correct and I didn't think his body position and movement was proper. I proceeded to watch Sedlak Offroad school videos. Since he is a pro enduro racer, I presumed he knew what was correct. About a minute into your video, I knew that you were correct in your explanation. You were very diplomatic and polite in your correction.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. I'll check their videos out! 😊

But if it is about footpeg weighting, rather than body position "weighting", you would steer the bike by lifting one leg off the footpeg, technically, all your weight would be on the opposite footpeg. The way I understand it is, the bike is affected when I move my body towards the inside/outside of the direction I'm trying to go.

@SileX406coup

Жыл бұрын

That would only be like that +/- of course in case your center of mass would be perfectly alinged with the one foot of the peg. Be putting pressure on the peg one is applying a counter momentum to the center of gravity of the bike that holds against the breakdown torque, so the forces that make your bike to want to fall over to the inside of the curve. Applying more pressure to the peg, or moving your body more to the outside increases that momentum, so you're therefore able to lean the bike even further or to pick the bike up, depending on whether you want to increase the lean angle or not.

Bret was saying it is not important in his video, however showing it is important in a very exaggerated way. You can’t position yourself in that nature without putting a majority of your weight on the outside peg. Maybe Bret was trying to convey its more than just putting weight on the peg. As to why weighting the outside peg feels better and works better. You’re better aligning the slip angles of the front and rear wheels. Which in turn allows the bike to be more planted. Adventure Rider Radio did a segment on the physics of peg weighting. Called A Rocket Scientist Explains Peg Weighting, or something of that nature. Chris Birch explains what he feels and thinks is happening. Mark Nesbit, the physicist, explains what is actually happening and different uses for inside peg and outside peg in a turn. It’s a great listen, everyone should check it out.

Imagine a scenario where a motorcycle is moving at speed and its head stock is locked so the front wheel cannot turn. If a standing rider unweights the left foot peg what would you expect to happen?. The motorcycle will roll to the right. However since the steering is locked in the straight ahead position, there is no mechanism by which the motorcycle can actually track into a right hand corner so it will continue in a straight line, just tipped to the right. To achieve equilibrium, the rider would have to lean to the left in order to shift the centre of mass back directly over the tyre contact patch. Having done so, the bike will maintain a straight path, just tipped over to the right. Now back in the real world, with a bike that does not have its steering locked straight ahead, when the rider unweights the left foot peg, the bike rolls to the right, and as is does so, the front wheel and contact geometry is weighted such that the front wheel flops slightly to the right. This creates the necessary geometry for the bike path to change from a straight line to a curved right hand turn. At this point, the rider can start to unweight the right foot peg, transferring his weight to the left or outside peg. If this was all the rider did, this would have the effect of making the bike roll back in the left direction. To counteract the leftwards roll, the rider has to put pressure on the handle bars to stop the handle bars from rotating left. He is effectively maintaining the slight rightwards turn in the bars which allows the bike to track in a right turn. Consider also counter steering. At higher trail riding speeds, say 20mph plus, turning the bars left makes the bike roll to the right. At some point the rider has to turn the bars to the right (clock wise) to stop the bike continuing to roll too far to the right and achieve the correct geometry for a stable right hand tracking turn at the particular bike speed. However at very low speeds, say trials riding speeds below 10mph, the rules change. At these very slow speeds, turning the bars only (ignoring peg weighting) left will actually make the bike turn left. Counter steering has less effect at very low speeds. To demonstrate this, try riding at around 15mph then try turning the bars very slowly. You should find the bike will turn in the direction the wheel points. Then try the same motion but much quicker and with greater force. You should find this causes the bike to roll away from the turn, the wheel flops to the same direction as the bike is rolling. The rider has to intervene at the handle bars to stop the bike rolling too far and achieve a stable turn. The faster the bike velocity, the more reactive the bike is to counter steering and less reactive to wheel direction change. The human brain has to learn to make these adjustments i.e. that the bike needs different inputs at difference speeds and at some point transition from turning left to go left to turn right to initiate a left turn. So repetitive practice is needed to train the brains subconscious ‘muscle memory’. I could be mistaken, tell me if I’m wrong.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

I mean, kind off. When you use the pegs to move the bike quickly side to side, you get exactly the same thing happen as when you physically counter steering the bars, it's just coming from a different source. The bars slightly going the wrong way always happens, you just don't use the bars to initiate it when riding in a standing position or generally at all off road. It's much more aggresive, require a lot of grip and generally lacks a lot of finesse. You won't see off road bikes change direction or initiate lean rapidly like you do on tarmac. The grip doesn't exist, so you have to do the same thing in a different way.

@capedolphin

Жыл бұрын

Counter steering is not dependant on being over a certain speed it is effective at all speeds. All counter steering does is create an unbalanced force that leans the motorcycle.A motorcycle sits on two points on the ground. In straight line movement the centre of gravity of the motorcycle and rider is inline with these two points. By initiating a counter steer to the right, due to rake angle the front contact patch moves to the right ,causing the centre of gravity to be on the left, therefore the motorcycle will lean to the left and turn left. The same thing happens if you move your centre of mass to the left ,the motorcycle will turn left. The reason the motorcycle reacts faster to a counter steer input at speed is due to inertia, the forward movement of the motorcycle causes the offset front contact patch to rotate the wheel to the opposite side faster,thank"s to the caster angle.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

@@capedolphin exactly. You good sir, get what's going on. Now if you could copy and paste this to the 50% of comments that don't I would greatly appreciate it. 🤣

Hey there, thanks for uploading this video very informative 😊 I wonder if you could help me be better off-road rider, I have Africa twin and I just started standing but it’s hard for me to control the throttle while going up and down!! Is there a technique or anything that I could put into practice… thanks again

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Yes. Take a look at my videos on good standing position 😊

Love this content. They're both right; which is to say we've got 'brake'dance vs ballroom diva. Sometimes incorporating a boa into your disco routine takes some time for the audience to compute all the variables! Good work Lel! 🤸‍♂🕺🤩

From an engineering perspective the total grip available from the tire is equal to the coefficient of static friction multiplied by the normal force. So weight the outside peg helps to increase the normal force.

@BrakeMagazine

10 ай бұрын

Exactly

Downhill MTB and skiing,heels down,soft knees and weight the outside leg

The first tutorial on this subject that I saw was Brett Tkacs'! Then I went out and practiced what I had picked up. It worked for me extremely well! But I always practise doing the opposite to what I have learned. It gives me a great frame of reference. I found this one very interesting. It confirms for me that both of you are correct. Maybe now it's time for the nuances to be explored! Both have merit. Just depends on a whole bunch of small differences!

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

👍

Don't know what the other guy said about weighting, but after spending 1k on high end wknd training and watching tons of instructional vids Ive found little on this subject! Your right on with this technique! Only other vid talking about this is Sedlack off-road school vids. I got a pair of Stegz pegs on my enduro built KX450 and it's like downhill skiing locking in and slaloming turns! Fun, graceful and very solid feeling! Keep up the good work!

@laudydaudy7173

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, Jimmy Lewis teaches the same thing.

If you are older than 40, and your bike weighs more than 400 lbs, you should learn this stuff on a smaller, lighter bike. I think the most important thing when weighting the pegs is to first find the spot on your bike when your standing that lets you feel the bike pivot below you, between your knees in yaw, so you feel and react to tire movement quickly and effectively. Like you were holding the bike in chopsticks from above so were able to twist in around a bit from the center. Knees over toes, ass back. Not sure if this works on a 600 lb bike, but it is how you do it on a dirt bike. In that position ,weight on pegs, rear tires sliding out or front tires tucking or sliding can be felt and corrected instantly and with counterweight pressure or steering/throttle inputs.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

Amen to this whole comment 😊

Interesting. I’d have to go back and watch Brett’s vid again to see/hear what’s different. I do seem to remember his focus was more on body positioning for balance, and less on foot pressure for turning. But, maybe I’m not remembering it right.

@BrakeMagazine

Жыл бұрын

He says you should push your knee into the tank