A Bomber Command clasp was finally struck in 2013. I received this on behalf of my father, who had completed a full tour. As a bomb aimer he flew missions to the Ruhr, Hamburg and Berlin - not Dresden, though he would have done so if ordered. He died in 1991, still hurt by the cowardice of those who had sent them out to do the job then backed off, denying responsibility. It takes little courage to ask young men to die an early death, even less to deny you did so.

John Thaw was so good in the role that I was hooked from the very beginning.

So many young pilots lost their lives defending Britain in those terrifying years,, courage and strength of heart, knowing it could be their last A written letter to love ones in case of a non return. We owe so much to these amazing souls, many suffered survival from their burning planes, plastic surgery was still not advanced as today.l leaving them with horrific scars for life. We must never forget what was. May it never happen again.

Vincde Kerrigan. Appreciate your reply.thanks,I am 94 now good memory good health mustn’t grumble.almost at the end of the road.The world I grew up in no longer exists.I dread the thought of what awaits this country.

My mother was awarded mention in dispatches for her work in Bomber command. My father, who met my mum after the war was with the Dambuster squadron, 617, as bomb engineer. Worked with Barnes Wallis. Superb film, John Thaw was a great actor.

@celiabeverton4514

20 күн бұрын

Nice to know x

@cbrown9555

20 күн бұрын

Can you prove it

@urbanskiboguslabsrecording7531

20 күн бұрын

@@cbrown9555They don’t need to prove it. But you just proved you are a little shit. Leave the nice elderly people alone.

@tudorpottudorpot8423

20 күн бұрын

@@cbrown9555 no need to prove anything

@John-G

19 күн бұрын

Whatever work she did, hopefully she got a '39-'45 star to go with the MiD as she was fully entitled to it. Edit: FWIW, Harris tried to get the Dambusters project binned!

So easy for people to criticise who didnt have to live through all out war they were brave men.

@vincekerrigan8300

20 күн бұрын

yorkshiremen. Yes! I lived through the Blitz, the so-called 'Baby Blitz' (the whole family nearly copped it in that one), and then the V weapons. I have been involved in many spats in comment columns in recent times, because I get sick and tired of all these know alls, who weren't there so haven't the slightest experience of war , telling US what it was like, what we did or didn't do wrong, or what we should or shouldn't have done. Sheer ignorance.

@james-pierre7634

18 күн бұрын

Yes it is very easy to criticize as you and the Americans seem to enjoy wars. Your entire existence has been predicated upon wars. Medieval knights in Scotland, France and Norway. On to colonization in Africa and Asian. The dastardly opium wars with China. The fiasco in the Falklands. The lost generation of young men at Ypres, Somme and Gallipoli. Oh yes, let’s not forget the poets who wrote so grandly about all your dead soldiers. But you can’t stop as the fighting goes on in places the British have no right being or supporting. Yes, war needs to be criticized! Often and loudly.

@Scouser7189

18 күн бұрын

@@james-pierre7634you sound like an expert. Were you there ? I suggest if you don’t like what our forefathers did you could emigrate and spread your bile elsewhere.

@paulhugo2180

17 күн бұрын

@@james-pierre7634 If you believe in the "out of Africa theory" then you can colonize whats yours.

@rogerkearns8094

17 күн бұрын

@@vincekerrigan8300 Yours is a brave generation.

Breaks my heart to see Britain in 2024. 😵‍💫

@jonathanpersson1205

21 күн бұрын

Britain is going to have a civil war over Islam within 30 years

@rtqii

20 күн бұрын

Liz Truss tried to save Britain but the Deep State got her just like they got Trump.

@phillipsugwas

20 күн бұрын

​@@rtqii Voicing the idea that Liz Truss could save anything leads to a short one word response.

@Bruce-1956

20 күн бұрын

I left the country in 1980, since then it's only gone downhill (and not because I left).

@jkerman5113

20 күн бұрын

Amen

Entertaining and John Thaw certainly looks the part; I had forgotten just how good Robert Hardy always was at portraying Churchill.

@dickdastardly5534

18 күн бұрын

Thaw and Hardy both very fine actors which we will unlikely see again.

@Horgi-vv2kh

16 күн бұрын

Yes well Dresden after the war became under russian control load of fuckers those germans but today they are back in business

@throwback19841

9 күн бұрын

The voice, the cadence, the attitude is spot on. Best Churchill ever.

the public want to enjoy all the benefits of freedom. But many want to criticize what it takes to be free. You don’t win over pure evil without pulling out all the stops. Everyone love sausage but know one wants to watch it be made.

This movie was absolutely fantastic, the use of actual war and other footage is so much appreciated…. To those who criticize the actions today have no idea what any of the people who had been brilliant in their duties, hoo-rah to these brave brothers in arms !! I do hope that the small group of elites who are planning to make WW3 happen are able to understand the consequences of the technologies that have been created and the consequences they will face as we know that war is purely a evil action

Wonderful. My Uncle was the rear gunner in Lanc NG308, 189 Sqn, shot down on the night of 7th March 1945. All the crew got out, one was shot later 'whilst trying to escape,'. My uncle was 22 when all that happened, he died in 1999.

@strikerorwell9232

21 күн бұрын

My grandpa was an Army veteran and I could not get him to talk about his experiences. Whenever there was a war movie on the TV he looked very uncomfortable and left the room. I never fully understood how much he was suffering until I heard him having frequent nightmares and occasionally screaming during his sleep.

@markfryer9880

21 күн бұрын

​​@@strikerorwell9232Frequently former service personnel will avoid talking about their War Service with their own families and yet they will open up to another service person who is much younger. I had this happen to me on a number of occasions when I used to install wardrobes and home offices in people's homes around Melbourne back in the 90s and early 2000s. When they found out that I had served in the Australian Army Reserve in Signals, they were happy to let slip some details of just what they had done during the war. I managed to meet a man and a woman, at different times, both Signallers from Z Force, the Australian Coast Watchers and Special Commandos and this was 50 plus years after the end of the War. The woman was a Sgt in Signals based here in Melbourne and handling the Top Secret radio traffic from the Coast Watchers and the Commando units operating in South East Asia. The man was a Signaller (at least a Sgt) in PNG behind Japanese lines deep in the jungle on the Bismarck Sea side of PNG, but situated near their two main bases to be able to intercept their radio traffic and then rebroadcast it in code back to Melbourne for decoding, and interpretation. I can't prove it, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they must have transmitted to each other at some point during the war and I got to meet them separately 50 and 54 plus years after the war. Now for the extra spice, have a think about how many wardrobe companies that there were in Melbourne at that time and then multiply in the number of installers, yet somehow I have managed to get to know two people who served in Z Force? That's when things start to blow your mind. Mark from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺 Former Australian Army Reservist '88 to mid 90s 1:24:52

@dickdastardly5534

18 күн бұрын

@@strikerorwell9232Makes me think of the quote all gave some and some gave all, I pray your grandfather and those other brave souls are at peace and rest 🙏🏻

@jamesfoote8916

18 күн бұрын

Can you imagine if this was today and asking the average 22 year old to do what you uncle and my family did. James

I had a close friend who was a B17 pilot in the U.S. 8th Airforce and was shot down twice over France. One of my uncles was in Patton's 3rd Army, another was captured in the South of France and in a German POW camp for the duration of the war. Another was driving trucks after the beachheads were established on D-Day. They were my greatest heroes in life. Compared to them I haven't accomplished much in my life.

@samsungtap4183

20 күн бұрын

Well you certainly managed to boor me half to death

@AlanMydland-fq2vs

18 күн бұрын

me neither😂

@davidfrazerwray7525

13 күн бұрын

Yes you have. You are living the life they fought for.

@AlanMydland-fq2vs

13 күн бұрын

hard act to follow

@stinkeye460

13 күн бұрын

@@davidfrazerwray7525 They didn't fight for what Britain and the U.S. has become today.

A real leader that had the British people, soldiers foremost in his goals. Tens of thousands were saved both in Britain and all of Europe. Thank God for these leaders. A Veteran.

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

Coastal Command had a very different view of how many lives he saved - or, in their view, cost, as do many who could have done with RAF support in North Africa and across Asia.

@thomaswayneward

19 күн бұрын

Think how forward thinking it would have been for British leaders to not enter the war on the continent. Germany dominates Europe today anyway. Maybe GB could have held on to more of its empire.

@John-G

18 күн бұрын

@@thomaswayneward Bizarre. Just bizarre.

@aeroearth

18 күн бұрын

Thanks Will, for the service that you and your fellows gave to save Great Britain from the tyranny of the Third Reich. Born just after the WWII, I owe my very existance to you. As tyranny rises again We, The People will once again strike back to defeat those that seek to destroy us. Good, strong, honorable Leaders in the Human race are extremely rare.

Such injustice that harris and the aircrews were treated like shit for what the government told them to do in the first place

@dokskwyr4353

16 күн бұрын

Definitely got a raw deal, left to twist in the wind for Dresden. Especially since he wasn't the sole planner or even the first to suggest it. Its just that the rest were better at covering their asses, using the media first.

@richardcline1337

16 күн бұрын

@@dokskwyr4353 That's one of the very reasons why my opinion of the British government and it's leaders of that era is lower than what lies at the bottom of a septic tank and stinks far worse!

@dokskwyr4353

16 күн бұрын

@@richardcline1337 You could be right.

@user-fq8rs7rz3i

15 күн бұрын

This actually makes me feel queasy. The shame I feel is indescribable.

@jimbo-yv5jh

15 күн бұрын

Churchill threw him under the bus.

My Grandfather was General Eisenhower's transportation officer during WWII. I loved hearing his stories. That drove me to learn as much as I could about the so called war to end all wars.

@John-G

14 күн бұрын

The "war to end all wars" was WWI - not WWII.

@chuckgilbert2035

14 күн бұрын

@@John-G yes, He fought in WWI also. Both of my grandfathers did. I am so proud of you for all your knowledge.

@John-G

14 күн бұрын

@@chuckgilbert2035 Sorry, I wasn't trying to be one-up, but if you re-read your original comment I think it'd be fair to say that it sounds very much as if you're referring to WW2 as "the war to end all wars", not WW1.

@MrDonJBerg

14 күн бұрын

Interesting..My Uncle an MP and was Eisenhower's jeep driver, I have a picture of him with Eisenhower, General Clark and two female aids in the jeep..

@chuckgilbert2035

13 күн бұрын

@@MrDonJBerg My Grandfather was badly burn by mustard gas in WWI. They did not take many pictures with him in them. BTW the General had him check out the M1 before it was issued. The third one in production was presented to him with serial # 3 on it.

Remembering the crew of Lancaster ND820 and the other 9000 who were killed in training

@fraseredk7433

22 күн бұрын

Shocking. Where can one read more of these accidents ?

@timwebster8122

21 күн бұрын

@@fraseredk7433 a good start would be books on Lincolnshire & Yorkshire Airfields Patrick Otter wrote a good series. The Lincolnshire Aircraft Recovery Group at East Kirkby museum are also good

@lenwilkinson672

20 күн бұрын

Tim webste…. We all owe these wonderful men who gave their all for us a great debt of gratitude. A breed of men the like of which will never be seen again.

@seanodwyer4322

15 күн бұрын

@@fraseredk7433 ahh read most off new zealand men in airforce fighting japan were killed in accidents and not in action.'''- Have counted 3 O'Dwyer who were kiled in accidents in pacific war

A marvelous production about a marvelous man played impeccably by a marvelous artist.

I was born 13 Feb 45, date of the Dresden raid, always aware that I was given life, as so many died. Around year 2000, I had the chance to see Dresden,as Captain of a private jet. Mostly rebuilt,but racks of stones and pieces all numbered, still awaiting reassembly. Went to a museum dedicated to that night,could hear people talking angrily in German sbout we British, kept my mouth tight closed. And Iremember as a kid playing in old bomb shelters,and being scared of gas masks. Still got my old ration book

@chriswebb1148

18 күн бұрын

dear friend im sure you know stalin wanted dresden destroyed so he could take berlin ahead of the western allies,it was he who pressurised churchill and eisenhower to attack dresden and the britsh of course played a part,so did the americans

@james-pierre7634

16 күн бұрын

Suggest that everyone read, Kurt Vonnegut’s “Slaughterhouse Five.”

@majormanfredrex

15 күн бұрын

Isn't it strange that those angry Germans don't take into account the fact that Germany bombed so many cities during the Blitzkrieg, thereby opening the door to the use of such tactics by the allied forces?

@MrDonJBerg

14 күн бұрын

Same thing with America bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki...There are museums there as well, some Japanese are still not happy with the U.S. But damn it..Start a war, but don't cry when you get your ass handed to ya, and I was born in Japan in 53.

@ChristineRead-ck1uq

13 күн бұрын

@@james-pierre7634 Suggest you look up the facts about Luftwaffe raids on the UK. Over 80,000 civilians were killed in them. By the way, the RAF didn't drop a single bomb on Germany to start with but dropped leaflets advising the German people to stop the war before they started paying the ultimate price. Germans would do well to remember that they and the Russians started WW2 when they invaded Poland. They also should remember that they allowed Hitler to take power, allowed the Nazis to take control and sat back while up to 10 million people were murdered in camps in their name - Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, disabled folk, political opponents, scientists, artists, actors et al. And if you are French, you would do well to remember the ultimate sacrifice made by so many British, Commonwealth and American troops on behalf of your country. Comparing what actually happened in Dresden to a work of Science fiction is hardly appropriate.

Extraordinary film and history.

Where would we have been without these courageous people.

@user-sc3ts6lf8r

21 күн бұрын

Dumping truck loads of ashes and crushed bone in the Severn..... just like they were doing in the Sola.... and the Vistula.

@user-fi2ix7mr6i

19 күн бұрын

Different times, different breed of cat back then.

@jaydewitte2958

19 күн бұрын

Speaking German and most likely not have all the garbage we have now. Germans are responsible for everything we have now. We stole all their technology. I am not stating I agree with anything Hitler did with the Jews. But even today Germans are the smartest most efficient culture.

@nigelbevan8449

19 күн бұрын

The greatest generation. In my opinion.

@thomaswayneward

19 күн бұрын

Not in the war at all?

John Thaw ...The Actors Actor

@billynomates920

23 күн бұрын

dunno what that means but he was a bloody good actor

@ingerlander

23 күн бұрын

@@billynomates920 Let me help you. It means that other actors admired and revered him

@billynomates920

23 күн бұрын

@@ingerlander yeah, he was good

I was great friends with John Nettleton in 1951-4 at school. We were 7 or 8 at the time. He often talked proudly of his father, John Nettleton who was awarded the Victoria Cross for a raid by Lancaster Bombers in 1942. He played Wing Commander Harry Weldon in this Film.

my dad was front line through out the war from africa to Germany never saw home for years after Germany surrendered he was on stand by for Japan then the bomb was dropped and he was stood down, did the bomb save him and ultimatly gave me life big questions on the morals of war in my mind

@autisticdrone.

21 күн бұрын

Interesting story. My Grandad was in the RN , he was a mechanic on an aircraft carrier. He ended up in the Pacific near the end of the war, the two atom bombs got him back home and demobbed. I wouldn’t be here now if the Americans hadn’t used those bombs, as approx nine months after he came home, my dad was born. 👍🇬🇧

@lenwilkinson672

20 күн бұрын

@davidgaSto…In war there are no morals,you fight to kill to win. The strong do not go to the wall like the weak. An unarguable fact.

@lenwilkinson672

20 күн бұрын

@@autisticdrone. The British gave the U.S.much of the atomic research.they wouldnt have ot so far even with the German scientists.

@urbanskiboguslabsrecording7531

20 күн бұрын

@@lenwilkinson672 If morality didn’t exist in war the Geneva convention wouldn’t exist. UK troops in WW1 played football and sung Christmas carols with German troops, in 1914. Then later won that war. Oh course morality exists in war time. Be pointless having wars otherwise, as collectively the human race would be total garbage.

@robertmccardle5113

20 күн бұрын

My dad signed up to go to Japan after VE day. So l to owe my existence to Harry Truman😮

Was in London for the 1970 anniversary of the Battle of Britain, Boy scouts ' international jamboree! Pilots of the Battle talked to us about it! Amazing, and disquietingly haunting!

Speer noted that "in the western theatres of war ten thousand anti-aircraft guns were pointed toward the sky…the anti-aircraft force tied down hundreds of thousands of young soldiers" (381-2).

@markfryer9880

21 күн бұрын

Consider if you will, that many of those Anti-Aircraft guns were the dreaded 88 mm flak gun which could also serve as an Anti-Tank gun. How much harder would it have been for the Western Allies and the Russians to advance towards and into Germany if those flak guns had been available for use as Anti-Tank guns? The casualty figures amongst tank crews, tank mounted infantry and fighter-bomber aircraft would have been far higher. Mark from Melbourne Australia 🇦🇺

@cowdaddy4595

21 күн бұрын

Markfryer: they still wiped out those sorry Sherman's without all those 88s. The Sherman was a sorry tank

@robblack7560

21 күн бұрын

Speer got off lightly however he was probably the most intelligent out of that gang.

@robblack7560

21 күн бұрын

An anti-aircraft gun at that.

@macswad

20 күн бұрын

Speer also stated that losing the submarine factories by RAF Bombing (Earth Quake Bomb) was a strategic blow - losing the Battle for the Atlantic. The BBC drama does not mention this fact.

The acting is superb, what well-spoken men, what gentlemen.

@valeriedavidson2785

21 күн бұрын

In those days most people spoke well. Now, they seem proud to speak with ugly local accents. It makes me sad. I am 86 and I remember it.

Outstanding video. Thank God for men like him & the thousands who flew the missions. Both in Bomber Command & the 8th Air Force. 🙏♥️🙏♥️🙏♥️ 🫡 🇬🇧 🇺🇸

@rudolfkraffzick642

22 күн бұрын

The mission of punishment by reducing the German population as much as possible. Churchill admitted that openly. Cant see much difference between this and the Nazi mission to kill as many jews as possible. Definite subjugation or ethnic/ moral clearances justifie any actions in total war too?

@lenwilkinson672

20 күн бұрын

@billotto602. Many years later when a statue was raised for HARRIIS. The only official who went to unveil it was T5HE QUEEN MOTHER .not a member of the government was present.

@billotto602

20 күн бұрын

@@lenwilkinson672 that's sad.

@robertmonaghan5420

18 күн бұрын

Yes, Well Said

a great movie about a great man. Who helped shorten the war and got betrayed by his political leaders

@colinbryant5598

22 күн бұрын

Sounds like a familiar song I'm afraid. Betrayed by his leaders.

@arslongavitabrevis5136

22 күн бұрын

"A great man"? A bloody war criminal!

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

He was "betrayed" by no-one. Had he done the same thing after 1948 it would have been a war crime.

@williammohan9784

20 күн бұрын

@@John-G yeah whatever. Best you stick to your comics and let the adults speak boy

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

That was actually Bomber Harris' view, as he openly admitted in a presentation he gave to RMAS when I was there nearly fifty years ago, "boy".

Thanks for posting this excellent movie.Bless those brave people who noticed the loss of friends, and kept on flying anyway.

John Thaw’s finest hour! Very moving. Robert Hardy played Winston Churchill four times! A relative of mine who I never knew was a rear gunner in an Avro Lancaster. He didn’t make it through 1942.

If you are at war you will either win or lose. Which will it be ?

@varschnitzschnur8795

22 күн бұрын

excellent point!

@Luke_Sandy_High_Ground

21 күн бұрын

There is white peace right

@YeahThatsTough

20 күн бұрын

@@Luke_Sandy_High_Ground Peace Lite. 🤣

@GilbertdeClare0704

20 күн бұрын

Imagine only "Half winning" against National Socialism ? ? Like Israel's dilemma now, to DEFEAT evil or only "Half win"

@james09995

19 күн бұрын

@@Luke_Sandy_High_Ground Shut up!

An excellent production - it summed it up very well. It was disgrace that it took until 2012 for there to be a Bomber Command War Memorial and the lack of a Campaign Medal was an even worse disgrace. The MoD finally offered a clasp to attach to the Europe Campaign Medal - even worse than nothing at all. For all 56,000 of my Father's comrades in Bomber Command who died in combat - rest in peace, there are still many who remember your sacrifice and how it shortened the war by diverting so much resource away from the Third Reich's front line fighting capacity.

@John-G

14 күн бұрын

There was never a campaign medal for ANY pilots - 3,000 Battle of Britain pilots got a clasp to the '39-'45 medal like anyone else, and they didn't complain. The problem was that Harris wanted a "Bomber Command" clasp for ALL Bomber Command, not just aircrew, including ground crew who never left the ground or the UK and that was never going to be acceptable. It's like the RAF demanding Iraq and Afghanistan medals for RAF drone pilots who never left their office in the UK (as they have done). Totally unacceptable. Edit: and the saddest part of all was that it DIDN'T "shorten the war" - it very nearly lost it, as Harris was nearly responsible for losing the war in the Atlantic until he was over-ruled and ordered to support Coastal Command. That doesn't detract from the crews' bravery and sacrifice in any way, but sadly it was in vain and achieved very little in terms of winning the war when balanced against the cost.

@kernowpolski

14 күн бұрын

@@John-G All the more reason for there to be a Fighter Command medal as well! The Russians gave the Arctic Convoy seamen a medal years before the MoD finally coughed up the Artic Star. Your argument about it being Harris' fault for over-demanding for ground crew is spurious. If they had wanted to give aircrew a medal they would have simply refused the ground crew receiving one. The fact is after all the sacrifice they just threw Bomber Command under a bus because of PR over Dresden which was done to appease Stalin.. Your comment about very nearly losing war is a delusional Anglo-Centric view. Much as I despise Stalin and Communism it was the sacrifice of the Russian people and the Eastern front that won the War in Europe. The Western Front speeded things up, but the defeat of Germany happened on the Eastern Front. Before D-Day the only useful purpose Western resources could used for was to disrupt the Reich from the air and push as much lend-lease kit and raw materials into Russia. Harris was delusional to think he could win the war through bombing alone; but the impact of draining men, equipment and production away from the Eastern Front was a more important factor. Thousands of men, guns, planes and diverted production drawn back to the Reich plus the logistical dislocation caused by infrastructure damage helped reduce the combat capability in the East. I used to think the strategic bomber force would have been better applied in direct assault on German Army units, but actual examples show this is false. Flattening Caen just made it more defensible just as flattening Stalingrad had made it more defensible. When the strategic bombers were launched on Operational Totalise they failed - Tiger tanks may have been knocked onto their sides with very lucky blasts, but they were quickly righted - you have only to read Hans von Luck's account to see how pointless the bomber force's use was because they just didn't have the accuracy. The Germans just picked themselves up and their 88s and tanks just blasted away at the advancing 11th Armoured Division. At least you acknowledge the crews' bravery and sacrifice and at the end of the day that is what medals are for, regardless of the pointlessness of the effort, are they not? My Dad was fortunate - he was Polish and was decorated with Poland's highest honour the Virtute Militari, the Cross of Valour four times and the Polish Air Force medal (the campaign equivalent), he also won the America Soldier's Medal when he flew with the US Ninth Air Force in 44 for rescuing fellow crew members from their crashed B-26 with his one unwounded arm. He even received three Campaign Medals from the L'Armee de l'Air Francaise for the period from late 1939 to mid--1940 when the Polish Air Force was part of the French Air Force. So I am staggered at how lacking in generosity for the bravery and sacrifice of RAF air crew that the MoD was. Other countries showed a better appreciation for their heroes.

@John-G

13 күн бұрын

@@kernowpolski It's difficult to know if you're uninformed, deliberately ignorant, delusional, or winding me up. ALL aircrew who flew over France, Germany or the Atlantic WERE issued either the Atlantic Star with either the Air Crew Europe Clasp or the France and Germany Clasp, or the Air Crew Europe Star with either the France and Germany Clasp or the Atlantic Clasp, or the France and Germany Star with the Atlantic Clasp. The 'Aircrew Europe Star' is the ONLY time any British campaign medal has EVER been issued only to a specific branch of a service. THE ONLY TIME. EVER. Aircrew were also eligible for the '39-'45 Star (with a clasp for 'Battle of Britain' and, considerably later, a clasp fo Bomber Command') and automatically also got the "War Medal'. This continual banging on by you and others that they "should have got a medal" as if they were left out of medals is absurd. All Bomber Command didn't get until much later was a clasp to the '39-'45 Star like that awarded to Battle of Britain crew. Nothing else. THEY GOT THEIR MEDALS, IN 1945, LIKE ANYONE ELSE. Of course my comment about nearly losing the War in the Atlantic is "Anglo-Centric"! How could it be otherwise when victories and surrenders weren't made at one time??? Of course "Harris was delusional to think he could win the war through bombing alone". but what's also delusional is thinking that the resources spent on Bomber Command wouldn't have been better spent elsewhere, in a balance not only within the RAF commands but across the services. While Bomber Command had an effect, the return simply didn't justify the massive effort put in. NO, medals are NOT to "acknowledge ... bravery and sacrifice ... regardless of the pointlessness of the effort", at least in the British military, and they never have been. That's what 'awards and decorations' to individuals, such as the KCBC, KCVS, MiD, MC, CGC, VC and DSO are for. Campaign medals are to recognise participation in a specific campaign, with a clasp if appropriate; Commemorative medals recognize service during specific events, such as a jubilee or coronation; and Service medals such as the LS and GC recognise particular service. The vast majority of medals have nothing to do with "acknowledging bravery and sacrifice" at all - if you don't understand that, which is about as basic as it gets, read the medal criteria published regularly by Gov UK and in the London Gazette which spell it out. That isn't my 'opinion', it's the simple fact of whatv they're for. Different countries simply award medals in different ways so quantity and quality have a radically different meaning, and the way some countries dish out medals is laughable to British military eyes as it simply cheapens the process and makes the medals meaningless. It's not about showing "a better appreciation for heroes", just doing things differently. Without wishing to down play your father's medals in any way, Poland awarded "Poland's highest honour the Virtute Militari, the Cross of Valour" 50,000 times in WW2, including four times to your father, while the VC was awarded 181 times.

First class,Harris was a legend.

One further thing: the on-screen announcement before the final credits (1:25:41) states that Harris was not made a peer. That's true, but not exhaustive. He refused a peerage in 1946, in protest at Bomber Command's crews not receiving a special, separate campaign decoration; but at Churchill's insistence was made baronet in 1953, which is just shy of the peerage, but apparently was the most he would accept.

@paddy.7784

21 күн бұрын

Thanks, didn't know that. The treatment of Bomber Command by the British Government after WW2 was shameful. ANZAC Day tomorrow, down here in NZ . We will remember and pay respect to the many Kiwi's who served and gave their lives in Bomber Command during WW2.

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

That wasn't "the most he would accept" - that was what he was offered.

@macswad

20 күн бұрын

Thanks did not know that

@John-G

19 күн бұрын

His 'protest' and the enduring problem wasn't that he wanted "Bomber Command crews" to have their service recognised with a clasp, like the 3,000 pilots who had a 'Battle of Britain' clasp to the '39-'45 star, but that he wanted to include ground crew as well, even though they never left the ground or the UK. That was never going to be acceptable, nor has it been since. FWIW the RAF are pushing similarly for medals now for 'drone' pilots who sit in a nice air conditioned office in UK, "piloting" drones in Iraq or Afghanistan or over Syria and the Gulf, to get the same medal as troops on the ground. (and 'no', I 'm not joking 😮)

@gordonspicer

17 күн бұрын

grateful for that information. I see some similarities to the unnecessary criticism the Israel Air force is experiencing despite the country being at risk. I often wonder if the West under our present leaders have to fight again if there is the will & capability ?

I saw this drama when it was first shown on the BBC, but listening to Sir Arthur Harris's 1977 interview as I just have, he talked about working together with the army, especially in the lead up to D-Day, and with the navy in so far as fighting the U-boat was best done by destroying lots of them where they were being produced or in harbour (as they were easier to find there) and he said that Albert Speer agreed on the impact on U-boat production from heavy bombing. So I don't think that he would would have said that Bomber Command would win the war alone, but it was a way to take the war to the Germans before D-Day happened for certain.

I remember some of the brave men who were my teachers at high school in Bundaberg Queensland, and who served in bombers over Germany. Some lost their lives while returning over Denmark and are fondly remembered by the Danes.

There's a YT historian who goes by the handle "Lord HardThrasher" who did an excellent series on the WW2 bombing campaign. He especially details the failures of the first half of the war.

look at us now

@davidb2206

23 күн бұрын

The Allies and all Western peoples lost.

@allegra0

23 күн бұрын

Sadly a country in decline. Riddled and corrupted by woke ideology and indiscriminate immigration. The rot started with the disastrous policies of Tony Blair and New Labour.

@patagualianmostly7437

22 күн бұрын

@@davidb2206 Because we lack conviction in all we believe..... it has been been beaten out of our souls by successive Governments pandering to those whose only aim is to see Great Britain fall into chaos: To see us humiliated for simply being damn good at what we once did. What we did in a world in which many others did exactly the same.... Compete. (And yes.... I cannot wait for the red arrows of dissent from those accusing GB of colonialism and abuse of foreign nations: Well, let me remind those small minded people: All nations did exactly the same...and many left a far worse scar on those countries...... far worse than Britain. Those countries are now subject to civil unrest and corruption at the highest levels. They have progressed minutely since their independence; They have been used and abused by their own .....far worse than any colonial power ever did. It's your backyard: Clean it up.)

@robblack7560

21 күн бұрын

We can't even stop a rubber dinghy

@JamesJones-yj8ku

21 күн бұрын

In 20 years most of Europe will be Muslim.

according to Western European historians Hitler had no chance of winning "post late September 1941" - after USSR defeated Nazi Germany. It was over, his targets had no military conscience or effect.

I met John Thaw in a service station in Milton Keynes months before his sad death, his best role was of DI Jack Reagan in 'The Sweeney'.

@Aengus42

17 күн бұрын

Seconded.

The way the world is heading it looks like it was all for nothing. We as a species have learned absolutely nothing from the horror of past wars and sacrifices made on all sides. 😢

"We're the RAF son , and we haven't had our tea!"

@stevehansen3794

19 күн бұрын

Good one!!

I remember this from its first airing. Thanks for posting it here.

You make war as you can, not as you would. The bomber offensive was the only way the western Allies could carry the war to continental Germany until June 1944

@russefrance4869

20 күн бұрын

Unfortunately, many people make that same first statement. In their eyes, they are waging a legal war therefore killing defenseless civilians is a necessary evil. To other eyes, it's murder. It carries on today in many forms. While men (and it is normally men) continue to wage war for power or money, so will the horrors it brings.

@John-G

19 күн бұрын

That's simply not correct on any level.

@guygardiner1920

19 күн бұрын

@@John-G Evidence?

@John-G

19 күн бұрын

@@guygardiner1920 Evidence? What you're saying is that the "western allies" did nothing to "carry the war to continental Germany" from 1940 until June 1944 apart from bomb it, as if "continental Germany" was somehow unaffected by everything going on around it, and as if prioritising resources to Bomber Command at everyone else's expense somehow made no difference as long as we just "let them know" we hadn't forgotten about them. It's simply an absurd construct to make.

@ChristineRead-ck1uq

13 күн бұрын

@@John-G It's absolutely correct on every level Or do you not understand that the allies wanted to end the war as quickly as they could? They knew what was going on in those camps too but were all but powerless to stop it. Did the German people do a single thing to stop it? ~Answer - NO, they did not. The only way to get at Germany was to strike at their homeland - where they thought they were invincible. To strike at their arms production, their maritime production and every other area of production they could access. To do that, only bombing them was effective. You seem not to like the truth, but there it is. By the way, have you bothered to examine the fact that, at the same time, Germany were launching V1s and V2s indiscriminately at the British mainland, killing thousands of civilians? My mother's family narrowly missed being wiped out when one landed at the end of their street with no warning. It killed every member of six families who were probably sitting eating lunch together.

"I haven't got VD" classic !!

I don’t know if anyone here has visited the RAF memorial in Runnymede, thousands of names all around 19-25.

@steveburton9242

20 күн бұрын

I was there in 1979. I saw a letter to a pilot downed in 1939: “To my dear brother, I will never forget you. Your loving sister”. I had to hide my tears.

I was born on the very day in 1942 that this hard headed uncompromising man took control of Bomber Command.

@brianmorris8045

24 күн бұрын

You can't compromise when the lives of your own country are at stake because of a madman intent on taking over Europe in whatever way he could. Namby pampy methods of today like smack the naughty boy on the hand don't work. It only gives rights to ricidivism. And that's what happens today. Back in the real world of back then, in WW2, all Harris wanted to do was nip it in the bud, and "get the bloody war over and done with without losing too many lives"! Like he said when asked by the reverend, about the horror, he said it was horrible. His methods unfortunately, would not work today due to the snowflakes in the top brass more worried about diplomacy in favour of the enemy, than getting rid of a tyrant. Had Bomber Harris been given the support when he needed it, the war might have been over sooner. History told us that.

@JeffreyWilliams-dr7qe

24 күн бұрын

So how did he do?

@buddah_stick

24 күн бұрын

@@JeffreyWilliams-dr7qeAs a human being; terribly. He delighted in pointless death of innocents.

@johnmurray5573

23 күн бұрын

​@@buddah_stickwrong

@Volcano-Man

23 күн бұрын

​@@buddah_stickIn Goebells own words 'We are at war, and we want total war!' Don't forget the Nazi's murdered about 10 million people: Jews, Homosexuals, Anti-War protestors, religious people of various faiths, the mentally ill, insane, deformed, coloured, in fact anyone they decreed to be unworthy of living because the were not Aryan enough. Any who ancestry had Jews in it had to have as a maximum of 1/8th - 12.5% Jewish ancestry to stand a chance of surviving; that figure by the way meant that if your great grandmother was Jewish you were in with a chance of being murdered, great great grandmother being Jewish but not practising you stood a chance. They were evil beyond measure. Hitler and the Nazi's decided that if the German people were declared to be unfit of the evil philosophy, then they must die and Germany destroyed. They did a pretty good job of visiting their version of Wagner's 'Gotterdamerung' on Germany.

RAF Bomber Command lost 55,000 air crew. The highest percentage of deaths of any UK service during WW2

@kimchipig

22 күн бұрын

@@doreekaplan2589 Um, what do Native Americans have to do with the Royal Air Force?

@Coltnz1

22 күн бұрын

@@kimchipigAbsolutely nothing.

@Luke_Sandy_High_Ground

22 күн бұрын

@@doreekaplan2589 irrelevant

@keithlillis7962

22 күн бұрын

@@doreekaplan2589 I have no doubt what you say is true, but I was talking about British RAF bomber crews during WW2

@T-mw4mu

22 күн бұрын

Merchant Navy losses greater percentage wise

When I see movies about WWII air war I think of my friend General Alpha Fowler of the 8th Airforce. Loved hearing his point of view on the war.

He sent his whole command out every night the weather permitted. What other commander ever bore such responsibilty ?

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

All of them, on all sides.

and now we can't even stop a rubber dinghy.

@andrewhoward7200

21 күн бұрын

Sickening isn't it. Sunak is certainly no Churchill, he's not even British in my opinion.

@kindnessfirst9670

21 күн бұрын

@@andrewhoward7200 What is he then- Irish?

@user-sc3ts6lf8r

21 күн бұрын

@@kindnessfirst9670 No..... He's Indian. He has no rights being in 10 Downing. Are you into Suicide ?

@wor53lg50

21 күн бұрын

​@@kindnessfirst9670he's a litte Indian with not one speck of white British/English DNA in him why....

@kindnessfirst9670

20 күн бұрын

There's no such thing as white, British or English DNA.

There's a British guy at 1:03:58 on a landing craft heading fir the beach on D-day. I've been interested in WWII since I was a kid. I'm now 60 so I've seen this guy so many times! I can't be the only one who recognises him, he's shown so many times. I always wonder if he made it to V.E. day & if he did, what became of him. Anyone else recognise him every time?

@stephengrimmer35

16 күн бұрын

Probably him @1:04:23 on the left, so no.

Robert Hardy as Churchill was sublime, and the bar others are judged by. Probably the most authentic I've seen

The Greatest Generation.Men arent made like this anymore.A different time, a different place. Flyers in Bomber Command were extremely brave men,the likes we shall probably never see again..

@janetmacdonald5455

25 күн бұрын

Rubbish. Before the war most young men were like those of today - make some money & have a good time. But, cometh the hour, cometh the man. The same would be true today but let's hope it never comes to that.

@brianmorris8045

24 күн бұрын

@@janetmacdonald5455 Bomber Harris didn't want the war. Sadly didn't get any credit for his efforts, despite his good intentions to minimise the destruction of Britain and its people. The good news, it wasn't all in vain..the Allies won.

@stevedavy2878

24 күн бұрын

@@janetmacdonald5455 if you think the young men and women of today have the same strength of character and spirir as this generation you are delusional. Until i retired 5 years ago. Ive worked with both generations. I knew men who served in WW2 in all services and i proud and humble to have known then. These lot now dont have it in them.

@JeffreyWilliams-dr7qe

24 күн бұрын

You're posts have become more than Tiresome.

@keithrose6931

24 күн бұрын

​@@janetmacdonald5455The world is a totally different place. Most kids have grown up with central heating,full bellies and a disregard for this country. Yes they may have trouble buying or renting a home but that's because millions of people have swept in and destroyed the housing market. Strangely the young seems to be compliant with the situation leaving us oldies to moan about it.

Politicians start war , men like Butcher finish them. My uncle was a bombaimer with 51 Squadron on Halifax's. KIA April 16/17 1943. My Father completed a tour of Ops as a bombaimer 90 Squadron 43/44. He had the upmost respect and admiration for Butch.

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

Then why did he call him "Butcher"?

@robertstallard7836

20 күн бұрын

@@John-G He didn't. "Butcher" is a retospective term used by his detractors. He was known to his aircrews as "Butch".

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

@@robertstallard7836 You evidently need to do a great deal more homework. "Butch" was an abbreviation for "Butcher", which is what he was "known to his aircrew" as. It's so well and widely documented and reported that you're making a bit of a fool of yourself over it, and that's being polite.

@robertmccardle5113

20 күн бұрын

@@John-G lm pretty sure to my dad it was a term of fondness. He had no time for armchair critics. They had a job too do .

@John-G

19 күн бұрын

​@@robertmccardle5113 I've only met three people called "Butcher" while serving, and while it may have become a term of "fondness" for some for Bomber Harris it certainly didn't start out that way. The other two were Martin McGuiness, the Butcher of the Bogside, on my second tour in NI when he was a "don't stop" before he became deputy first minister, and the other was Ta Mok, brother #4, in Cambodia. Hardly good company. Your father wasn't really in a position to judge but it's unlikely that Bomber Harris did anything to hasten the end of the war or even save any allied lives, despite Bomber Command killing well over half a million innocent civilians, most of them women and children. He bullied Churchill and the RAF into making Bomber Command the priority at the expense of anything else, including not only precision bombing such as the Dambusters, but Coastal Command which he trashed regularly, nearly costing the allies the war in the Atlantic until he was overruled. By the end of the war it was becoming clear just how much of a mistake it had been, although Bomber Harris never accepted that it hadn't achieved what he'd constantly said it would. Bombing people into oblivion has simply never worked, then or since. With the priority on Bomber Command, troops elsewhere missed out not only on air support they needed badly, particularly in North Africa and Asia but also in Europe, but also weapons and ammunition. It also cost the RAF an enormous amount of pilots and aircrew killed and injured, with more than twice as many pilots killed as took part in the Battle of Britain.

My mum went into the Land Army at 14 and into a factory making electronic parts for RAF bombers when she was 18. Where she lived was surrounded by airfields from which RAF and US bombers were stationed. My dad volunteered for the Navy as soon as he turned 18 then served on minesweepers in the Med and Adriatic being demobbed in 1947. Oh how their lives different from that I and my siblings have lived.

“Come with me to Berlin, by night.” Really? The Americans weren’t capable of operating by night. No navigational equipment, no operational procedures, no experience, no nothing. To get the USAAF to operate in the dark of night would take more than a year and then only if they adopted RAF navigating equipment, bomb sights (forget about the Norden; it was no better than the RAF’s bomb sight and it wouldn’t work at night anyway), navigators and bomb aimers. Not to mention that with the paltry bomb load a B-17 could carry, you’d have to switch them over to Lancasters first. Not an option.

A great man, a man of extraordinary vision who helped buy us the peace that gave revisionists, years later, the luxury of calling him a war criminal.

@John-G

14 күн бұрын

"extraordinary vision" ? Yes. Correct? No.

@ChristineRead-ck1uq

13 күн бұрын

@@John-G Stop your hate against a man who did far more to save his fellow Brits and others than you could ever do in five life times.

@John-G

13 күн бұрын

@@ChristineRead-ck1uq There's no "hate" involved - sober up.

It's so very sad that nearly ALL THE LOVELY GREAT PEOPLE OF THAT TIME HAVE NOW GONE GOD BLESS THEM look what we got now

Thankyou for these uploads. R.I.P. lads and you did the job as been ask to do.

The wartime footage shows JO-P preparing to take off for the Dresden raid. My good friend flew that raid and was in the rear turret of JO-X 463 RAAF “Press on Regardless”.

At least QE II got Butch's statue up

@davidlauder-qi5zv

22 күн бұрын

Nothing to do with the Queen. She didn't decide it should be put up. It was a political decision.

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

It was paid for by private donations, pushed for by Maggie Thatcher and ex-Bomber Command. Nothing to do with QEII at all. ... and FWIW, the nickname "Butcher" is hardly complimentary.

Wasn't it Sholto and Portal who threw Dowding and Park under the bus. The very people whe helped save this country at the battle of Britain.

@Luke_Sandy_High_Ground

21 күн бұрын

“Save this country” Royal Navy: are we a joke to you?

I grew up with Mr Forester who flew 20 missions over Berlin in a Lacaster named "F for Fred" aka "Fred the Fox".

I was in hospital recently, and the chap in the bed next to me was LOLUIS P WOODRIDGE DFC, a rear gunner in WWII, He had written a very interesting book DAY SQUIRE NIGHT FLIER He talked a lot but not about his DFC and war career but disgusted at how after the war he joined FIFE POLICE and had a big problem with his and their religion denying him promotion, I spoke to him everyday and had the same anti police diatribe, I told him to forget FIFE POLICE and be proud of his DFC and WWII experience

I was born in August 1953...not quite the 'anniversary of the bomb', (or bombs) of Hiroshima (& Nagasaki) ...but perhaps close enough to sadly commemorate the events _and_ _continue_ to hope that no further weapons such as they, will ever be employed again, on our world, or, indeed, any other, especially where any form of sentient life (at least) exists. With respect and thanks to those involved in making this film, to the now deceased actors within it, to Lady & 'Bomber' Harris...and R.I.P. to the lost souls of the services throughout the war(s) and likewise, to the civilians, who suffered injuries, and / or lost their lives to the senseless, yet necessary actions of war brought about through the actions of the evil which (some) men do. ... R.I.P. John Thaw & Robert Hardy, (et al).

Glad to see some of the old film footage

Excellent movie, excellent acting. QUALITY !!

Commeth The Hour Commeth the Man!

@ChristopherHindle

16 күн бұрын

The hour has come for Britain, but where is the man?

I missed this when it was first aired really good thank you😮

Thanks for this .

I knew Canon John Collins personally as he was a Client of mine during the 1060/70's. He and I had many long conversations as he tried to defend Religion and I constantly challenged it's existence other than by FEAR (False Evidence Appearing Real). On one occasion I remember suggesting to him that I found it difficult to believe that someone with his intelligence could belief in Fairy Tales...He took no offense but quietly said "Al Dear Boy" and tried to qualify his theory... BUT you see he was a Theorist and could not actually understand Practicality so when I asked him to Prove to me there was a GOD he would meander verbally. One retaliation Bomber Harris could have stymied Canon Collins with related to his feeling about the morality of Bombing Berlin/Dresden.... Coventry and the Cathedral?. If Canon Collins and other Pacifists had had their way the U.K. would have been speaking GERMAN now.

@davidlauder-qi5zv

22 күн бұрын

The 1060s? A thousand years ago?

@lawLess-fs1qx

21 күн бұрын

German is easier to Learn than Urdu.

@typhoon2827

20 күн бұрын

​@@davidlauder-qi5zvhe's older than he looks.

@aeroearth

18 күн бұрын

In the Bible's Ten commandments it says "thou shalt not kill". which is good advice. But if someone is raising his rifle at you and yours is levelled at him, are you allowed to shoot him before he shoots you? What would Canon Collins have you do?

@toddscallan8781

17 күн бұрын

The sons and daughters of the pacifists made sure England would accept religion: Islam. Why? Because the failed to have a belief structure ingrained in the culture to defeat it. This proves that the absence of good...allows evil to prosper. That in itself should be proof enough that God exists because it has been replaced with evil throughout England.

“I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal. Fortunately, we were on the winning side.” - USAAC Gen. Curtis LeMay RIP Air Marshall Arthur Harris

@davidlauder-qi5zv

22 күн бұрын

Air Chief Marshal Harris. Please don't demote him to Air Marshal.

@soggybadrongle

21 күн бұрын

yeah, of course what curtis and arthur didn't take on board was that they may have escaped justice in this world, but in the next life they know every name of EVERY man, woman and child they killed and injured AND they are experiencing EVERY death and injury they inflicted, neither are resting in peace

@user-sc3ts6lf8r

21 күн бұрын

@@soggybadrongle They bombed a nation ... that was gassing kids....

@sananselmospacescienceodys7308

20 күн бұрын

@@soggybadrongle How would you know this to be true?

Now we're just giving it all away.

Disappointed about that bit where Churchill threw Harris under the bus. Politicians!

@lauriestlyon8773

22 күн бұрын

Churchill was an amazing leader but, not without his flaws. He could turn on a sixpence if required and swear he paid a shilling. But, still one of my heroes. I always understood that Harris never got the recognition he deserved. But, service politics is every bit as savage as the civilian kind! As we used to say; "Please God preserve me from Staff Officers!"

@Baskerville22

22 күн бұрын

It's a movie

@gordonepema722

22 күн бұрын

@@Baskerville22 Are you saying the BBC is traducing Churchill?

@Baskerville22

22 күн бұрын

@@gordonepema722 The BBC "traduces" anyone and anything that tends to add lustre to British history

@patagualianmostly7437

21 күн бұрын

@@Baskerville22 The BBC is anti-British. It has become everything our forefathers tried to defend against. This not simply a "movie" as you so casually state....it is a record of facts and a matter of public record. The only surprising thing is that it is a BBC production....someone there seems to have a backbone. He/she must feel terribly lonely.

He was acting on the best information on what Britain could do to put the most pressure on Hitler's war effort was to target the houses of German workers in night raids. They were quite prepared to kill or injure those who did not get to shelters but they did not expect that would be enough to collapse war production. They calculated that they could make a significant percentage of German workers homeless with would reduce their productivity and morale and put a major strain on government resources to take care of them.

For all that, Thaw played a great part. Great movie.

John Thaw's Finest Performance.

Respect.

Outstanding production!

Good film; Thaw superb as ever.

My parents lived thru this in Kent. I used to play in the bomb shelters in Cliffe. We were told never to go in them!

Great music !

Can't unsee Siegfried Farnon. Top actor. R.I.P. Robert Hardy C.B.E.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧 👍👍👍👍👍👍

Excellent production....

Excellent and Outstanding!!!

Well made movie. Thank you.

If he hadn't been there to carry the brunt of responsibility, a responsibility that should have been carried by the politicians giving the orders, and all the criticism on his shoulders, the seaborne attack of Europe would have cost the allies over 400,000 casualties more, the difference of which was paid by the RAF Bomber Command Boys and the USAF, allowing all those spared, to return to their loved ones. Guernica, Warsaw, Rotterdam, Coventry, London and all the other cities that where ONLY civilian targets and were bombed by the Luftwaffe, were reasons enough to retaliate. It was only a taste of what was to come: what was sown, was reaped, and by God-allmighty it was only a just return. In War, nobody is right, and nobody is wrong, nobody is innocent but all are guilty! Just as white is not white, and black not white! The tone of gray dominates in such dark times, and the victor has the saying: he makes an writes history and bends it to his will. It was so in antique times, and it will be so in future times, VAE VICTIS is the word. Will the fighting forces of Ukrainian, nowadays be declared war criminals for defending theit homeland ...?

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

You need to either re-read your history or re-learn your English. "Retaliation" can only be AFTER an event, not before it. Germany's 'blitz' campaigns came AFTER Britain's bombing campaigns were up and running. It's like blaming Australia for bodyline bowling when we started it.

@vincekerrigan8300

20 күн бұрын

@@John-G Grammatically correct no doubt, but a totally irrelevant comment. War is war, you do what you need to do to win it.

i salute the forces i dont see myself man enough to fight .

A most excellent movie and soundtrack.

This poor man got the blame for a lot of things Churchill wouldn't admit to

my dear old mum was a waaf on the bomber squadrons used to bomb up the aircraft and drive the airmen and officers a young girl of 18 she had no time for war later in life the boys would go and so many wouldnt return she said

The planners were right about knocking the synthetic oil production out. When they did the effects only took weeks to produce results.

@lancelot1953

21 күн бұрын

Except that at the time, all was not known about the extremely fragile oil supplies of Germany - trains were still shipping POW, Jews, Romani, Resistants, etc... to concentration camps - POWs especially from the Eastern side were tortured and killed and oil/fuel production was still enough to launch Bodenplatte and the Battle of the Bulge. Ciao, L (Veteran)

Excellent discussion. Is there a moral way to do the immoral ? My father was bomb aimer in an RCAF Halifax. He didn't talk much about it. Brave to face death, and brave to continue with life after.

Captain Mannering was there 1:21:41. Good film, thank you. UKUK

Dresden was a key transport hub/node as the Soviets advanced towards Saxony

@vincekerrigan8300

20 күн бұрын

guygardiner. Correct. By that stage of the war it had become a legitimate strategic target. The assertion that it was a deliberate attack purely on civilians, was a downright lie. Yes, it was a bad raid - three seperate raids actually - but the death toll reached nothing like the wildly inflated figures first issued by German propaganda, and gleefully jumped on by the bleeding heart war crime proponents, desperate to promote an equivalence of the Allies with the Nazis. In an attempt to finally reach a conclusion as to the actual death toll from the raids, in 2004 an enquiry was set up by the Dresden Authorities, to study the matter. It reported it's findings in 2008, which were that the number of civilians killed was between 22,000 and 25,000. Still a high number, but aeons away from the 'up to 500,000' number touted in the past.

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

No it wasn't. It was a possible route for a counter-attack. Very different.

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

​​@@vincekerrigan8300Actually the accepted number prior to that / "touted in the past" was 35,000 to 50,000. Harris was also consistently clear about his aims in bombing Germany, including Dresden - to kill Germans and destroy their cities and morale. Nothing else. "The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive ... should be unambiguously stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers, and the disruption of civilised life throughout Germany ... the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories."

@robertstallard7836

20 күн бұрын

@@John-G Of course, the first part of the Aims of bombing operations is always left out of these quotes (which, I note, you failed to provide a reference for), namely: "The progressive destruction and dislocation of the German military, industrial and economic system, and the undermining of the morale of the German people to a point where their capacity for armed resistance is fatally weakened" (The Casablanca Directive of 1943, agreed between Roosevelt and Churchill). Your quote is, in fact, Harris's unequivocal re-statement of the Aims he was required to carry out, after the British Press concentrated on mainly reporting the losses to German industry without so much emphasis on the losses to the underlying infrastructure (equally, if not more, important). As Harris rightly pointed out, this was a misrepresentation of the truth and people deserved to know exactly what was required to be done in order to defeat Germany. All perfectly good aims and absolutely vital to winning the war!

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

@@robertstallard7836 It's Harris' best known quote - if you need a "reference" for it you need to do a lot more homework. As for it being "absolutely vital to winning the war" that was Harris' view even forty years later, but by the end of the war all other leaders, even Churchill who wasn't the brightest bulb in the box, had realised they'd been wrong and that far from "winning the war" and saving allied lives it had cost allied lives instead as money, production, effort and lives had been poured into Bomber Command at the expense of everyone else - not just Coastal Command who'd nearly lost the war at sea and in the Atlantic but the troops in North Africa, Asia and even in Europe. Even accepting Harris' unpleasant premise that one British soldier's life was worth more than hundreds of thousands of innocent German civilians' lives (I'm sure you can find the "reference" for that), his insistence that bombing them back to the stone age (to misuse a later expression) would shorten and win the war and so save allied lives simply hadn't worked and that was clear by 1946.

Germany had the option of stopping the war at any time by surrendering.

@John-G

20 күн бұрын

Really? Who'd have guessed ...

@conveyor2

12 күн бұрын

Same could be said for the vaunted Allies.

All heartfelt comments. Why didn't our political leaders finish after the. " war to end all wars " ???

Sir Stafford Cripps went on to wreak havoc on British aircraft manufacturing after the war. 😮

He was originally a Rhodesian.