I still think it's hilarious that RiverClan kept the names Stonekit and Mistykit and somehow NOBODY noticed that they looked identical to two of Bluestar's lost kits.

@5rcane

10 ай бұрын

Same! Most of all Thrushpelt!

@Iloveridinghorses2012

Ай бұрын

And they even looked like blue star! Idk how no one found out! 😅

I would rather go into Kittypet life than be ruled by Thistle”star”. When he was a kit I hated him and when he was a warrior I was terrified of him.

@callisto.s_clawz

10 ай бұрын

okay, I must admit, I see you everywhere. but, one thing I love about seeing you is that it's just like: Oh my god, it's TrickyTalon! you make my day every time :)

@alexismyers6053

10 ай бұрын

I have an OC that’s purposely meant to look a lot like Thistleclaw. A nonbinary cat named is Thistlefire that gray-tabby-and-white with short, spiky fur that makes them look like they were dragged through a bush backwards. They have a “prickly” personality and cats compare them to stories of Thistleclaw all the time. But they’re a good cat deep down, they just have their own sense of what it means to be a loyal warrior. They end up going on an adventure and adopts some orphaned kits, which mellows them out a bit- not a lot, but they’re not as short tempered as they were before. When it comes time for the leader to choose a new deputy, the clan wants Thistlefire to be chosen, but they refuse because they know their attitude and shorter fuse would make them a bad deputy and leader. The position ends up going to Robinsong, Thistlefire’s grandfather. Their mate- a light brown tom named Burrpelt- is the complete opposite of them and until the adventure Burrpelt where tagged along, Thistlefire hated him, being jealous that he was do naturally friendly and well liked by the Clan.

@BotanRice

10 ай бұрын

and BLUESTAR suggested the prefix “thistle” to his mom, and it is a untouched point that we need to talk about more-

@alexismyers6053

10 ай бұрын

@@BotanRice lol I am shocked she didn’t use that against him more. “I should have named you Stinkykit!”

@BotanRice

10 ай бұрын

@@alexismyers6053 “I should have named you dontdatemysisterKit!”

I don’t get why Sunstar HAD to choose between Bluefur and Thistleclaw. There were SO MANY other cats to choose from. THRUSHPELT was an option! Adderfang, Swiftbreeze, Sparrowpelt/Halftail, Robinwing, Fuzzypelt, Poppydawn, heck of it was about them being young PATCHPELT was a young warrior that met all criteria! There other options! And if he suspected Thistleclaw to be a bad choice, WHY WAS HE EVEN ON THE SHORT LIST?! Because he was popular with the Clan? You know who else was popular AND an evil cat? Tigerclaw/star! Why was he allowing the popularity of a cat and the opinions of Clanmates who do not understand the political side of being a leader to dictate his choices? HE is leader, not them! Being leader is like being a parent! A good parent doesn’t let their kits play with a snake because the kits think it isn’t poisonous! Sunstar let the options of his clanmates sway his options and unfortunately, Bluefur and her kits paid the price for it.

@sophietremblay3795

10 ай бұрын

Exactly that’s the only negative thing I have about sunstar for the rest he was amazing

@IJustAnimateThatsTheJist

10 ай бұрын

​@@sophietremblay3795+ They really nuked his character before sentencing him to death via inconsistent and impossible time skips 💀

@sophietremblay3795

10 ай бұрын

@@IJustAnimateThatsTheJist true

@idontknowstilldontknow1980

10 ай бұрын

Or, what if he appointed Bluestar as deputy, but had a temporary deputy well she was still taking care or her kits

@alexismyers6053

10 ай бұрын

@@idontknowstilldontknow1980 I don’t see why a she-cat deputy being in the nursery has to interfere with her duties to begin with. Like, her day to day tasks are sending out patrols. She can ask another queen or an elder to watch her kits while she does that! It doesn’t take long and she can think of who to send on what patrol while nursing or watching her kits play! It just baffles me how that’s an issue.

I think that Sunstar should have made Bluestar his deputy anyways, and appoint a temporary deputy well she was taking care of her kits.

@fuzzybuns296

9 ай бұрын

One thing I wondered too is if he would have made Thrushpelt his deputy instead. I am pretty sure it was stated he had spotted paw has her mentor for a period of time. I could see him choosing him due to how close he was to Bluefur and him having a more peaceful mind compared to Thistleclaw.

Honestly the plot of having sunstar choose between her or thistleclaw pissed me of so much honestly it’s dumb like trushpelt would have been a great option it could have been great to have trushstar

You guys remember that old rumor back then of Bluestar kicking him out of StarClan? Wild times I just remembered that while watching this. Bluestar went though allot of hell and while I don’t like how she acted in her early Warrior stage, she is still one of my favorite characters of the series.

Yeah basically hitting all the points I have said over and over again over people in the fandom who hate Bluestar and use her giving up her kits (and poor Mosskit's death) as a reason to disparage her character. She really made the best decision anyone could and if we are honest, their father being outside of ThunderClan really gave her the best chance of becoming deputy and guaranteeing them a decent life with little Mosskit being collateral sadly. That being said its better to lose one kit then to lose all three in a wave of blood as Goosefeather had warned. As messed up as it is, it could have been for the greater good.

Also you just gave me an AU MAP idea of Thrustpelt being in the nursery while Bluefur got to be deputy

Thistleclaw made me incredibly uncomfortable, and still does. Bluestar is my favorite character, and I love her book, but Thistleclaw just makes me so uncomfortable.

@sophietremblay3795

10 ай бұрын

Uhh thistleclaw is just meh a flat boring villain even maleficent who had a strange motive to be a villain was even more interesting than this arrogant wiredo

@Wolfnado

10 ай бұрын

@@sophietremblay3795He also is uncomfortable for being weird with Spottedpaw in Spottedleaf’s Heart… but you probably know that

@sophietremblay3795

10 ай бұрын

@@Wolfnado absolutely I only loved the parts when spotted paw was alone but with thistleclaw it was dreadful

@5rcane

10 ай бұрын

I honestly was a poor Thistleclaw : ( type of person until SLH came out. I was a denier for a bit, and considered it non canon for a year until I grew up lol

@Wolfnado

10 ай бұрын

@@5rcane Yeah, the Erins really butchered every shred of admiration for Thistleclaw in Spottedleaf’s Heart

On the topic of gender roles too, an interesting pattern I've noticed is that conflicts like this (choosing between taking care of kits and having a necessary position of power) is pretty much only present for she-cat characters, and almost never toms Bluestar had to give up her role as her kits' mother in order to become deputy, but Oakheart was able to be RiverClan's deputy while still being a father to the exact same young kittens. One of the primary conflicts in the SkyClan and the Stranger manga is Leafstar struggling to juggle her duties as both a mother and a leader. Moth Flight literally created the rule that medicine cats aren't allowed to have mates or kits due to her own personal struggles to raise her children and keep up with her duties Meanwhile, Firestar, Bramblestar, Crookedstar, Tigerstar II, and probably more male leaders that I can't recall off the top of my head magically didn't have the same issues as their female counterparts. Every single bit of drama between these cats and their children had pretty much nothing to do with a conflict of time between leadership and fatherhood. Squirrelflight and Leafpool's struggles had nothing to do with Firestar; same with Alderheart and Sparkpelt with Bramblestar. They didn't even seem to have that close of a relationship iirc. Crookedstar's only drama with Silverstream was Crookedstar's fear of losing her and Silverstream becoming a bit spoiled because she's the leader's daughter; once Crookedstar overcame his grief of his mate and his other kits, he seemed to be very present in Silverstream's life. Meanwhile, Tigerstar II (at least in the early parts of TBC and prior, I think he kind of fell off later on) seemed to be quite the doting father, particularly over Shadowsight due to his visions and seizures Why are male leaders so much better at balancing leadership and parenthood than any of their female counterparts? Even fathers who are significantly more involved in their kits' lives despite gender roles (especially Crookedstar, who, unlike a lot of she-cats in power who have children and struggle with it, is a single father after Willowbreeze's death; in fact, not in too different of a position to Moth Flight!) are not depicted having any struggles with the balance. I literally can't even theorize a possible explanation in or out of universe for this phenomenon --- other than straight up sexism (most likely unintended but still pretty present imo) on the writers' part The Warriors KZreadr Sunnyfall has a great video talking about sexism in Warriors that I think goes into much better detail in both this aspect and other aspects of the strict gender roles and misogyny present in the text and I recommend checking it out, but basically what I'm trying to get at is that Bluestar had to give up her kits, yeah, but it wasn't the kits preventing her from becoming deputy, it was the in- and out-of-universe misogyny. If Bluestar were a tom, or if a tom were in her exact situation, I really believe that making a choice between parenthood and deputyship wouldn't be necessary, based on the textual evidence in other books of how toms and she-cats are treated completely differently

@abrahamjean8176

10 ай бұрын

right cause if she was a tom, she could have pulled a Raggedstar and been like het white eye take these kits lmao

@TheUnknownDerg

10 ай бұрын

To be honest that does make sense though. It isn’t like with us humans, where we can do things such as formula feed our babies, they only have the choice to breastfeed. That means, while it’s not impossible to do other things, the she cats have to be near and ready to go to their kits way more, which could definitely affect leadership and since toms don’t produce milk for the kits therefore, they wouldn’t have to do that it makes sense they can still go on with their duties.

@hiraganasakura9074

10 ай бұрын

@@TheUnknownDerg @abrahamjean8176 Honestly both of your responses make me wonder the same thing which is, like, it's not like there wasn't a single other nursing queen in ThunderClan: Whiteeye was right there. It makes sense that she-cat leaders and deputies need to be ready to feed their kits when they're still eating milk, but if there really was a big enough conflict between deputy duties and motherly duties for that to be a problem, and another nursing queen is present, and the whole point of the Clans is to take care of each other, it'd make sense that, if necessary, the other nursing queen would help feed the kittens in that situation For a different situation in Warriors where something like this happened, take as an example what happened with Jayfeather, Lionblaze, and Hollyleaf. Leafpool obviously couldn't nurse them because she couldn't reveal that she was pregnant, while Squirrelflight couldn't produce the milk because she was never pregnant. So Ferncloud nursed the three kits in addition to her own two Afaik Whiteeye and Bluestar didn't exactly have a negative relationship so I don't see why that thought never crossed any of their minds lol. I know it's different because unlike Leafpool and Squirrelflight, Bluestar is actually capable of nursing her kits, just may not have been able to for scheduling reasons, but I can't recall a reason where that solution wouldn't have worked. (Come to think of it, I also just remembered that when Squirrelflight did actually have biological kits, she was nursing them while she was deputy of ThunderClan. So I think it'd be possible for Bluestar to do the same... unless the difference between the situations was just the Erins being extremely inconsistent as usual haha) But yeah, you both bring up great points that made me remember something I should have mentioned lol

I think she made the right choice. Since other cats saw her give birth to them, they knew they were her own kits. She could not deny it. Meanwhile she was not confirming who the father was, leaving her Clanmates to wonder. Whereas in RiverClan, with Oakheart as the father, cats were less likely to wonder who the parents of the kits were. Now, I do think that she maybe could have tried to take them over at a different time rather than DURING A SNOWSTORM, but I guess it makes sense that she couldn't wait because soon they would be old enough to remember the event for the rest of their lives.

@abrahamjean8176

10 ай бұрын

I always put the snowstorm thing as her best way to cover up what she'd done. the bad weather and cold made for unfortunately great excuses and barriers to find out what really happened and like you said they were so small and traumatized that they would have never remembered something like that.

@ThatArtisticBookwormYT

10 ай бұрын

@@abrahamjean8176 Oh yeah, true, that's a good point!

@laloongod4196

10 ай бұрын

This isn’t true bc oakheart would have had to pretend he wasn’t the father

@ThatArtisticBookwormYT

10 ай бұрын

@@laloongod4196 True, but cats wouldn't even ask. With him being a guy, they would easily believe that he just found them. But if Bluefur said she found them, they would be more suspicious of such a claim.

@-primrose-

7 ай бұрын

​​@@someadorablebuffcatWhen they started their journey to RiverClan it wasn't snowing. They got caught up in the snowstorm later

Sunstar would have never let bluefur be deputy while she was still a mother, and he was heavily considering thistleclaw its mention in spottedleafs heart that he is very fond of him. Not to mention I hate to say it but Sunstar really isn't as supportive as people make it seem sure he is better then Stormtail but just like Goosefeather, Tawnyspots, and Stormtail, He dismisses her and her feelings whenever she is grieving, Her mother, sister, kits what have you they always tell her the same thing. "Get back to work" So why would anyone think she would even think to ask him or tell him about the kits? sure Whiteeye would have been an option but I highly doubt that anyone in the clans would be approving of a mother letting another queen nurse their kits while she is still available to do so

@Danmeilover69

9 ай бұрын

Finally! Someone else who agrees Sunstar isn't as great as people say he is. I completely agree with you.

There's also the chance nothing would have changed, BlueStar becomes leader, OakHeart dies, and later on BlueStars mind snaps and she's crazy after TigerClaw. The kits could have been in danger from their Uncle ThisleClaw and later TigerClaw when he tried to take over. Yeah would have been warriors then but could have still been in danger and used to distract BlueStar. Could have been used like Simba to kill Mufasa.

Even if she did want to forfeit them, maybe don’t do it during a snowstorm or do it one at a time or ask Thrushpelt for help. Thrush would more than likely help her if she told him that Thistleclaw was dangerous as long as he knew the three of them were safe and sound.

I love your analysis so much here! I love your painting a lot here too! ❤ Edit: Love your still character pngs! Please use em! ;]

@5rcane

10 ай бұрын

Thank you!! 💜💜✨

I rather disagree. So many queens leave the nursery as soon as the kits are apprenticed. Also she could have raised them. Tawnyspots didn't die until she would have been out of the nursery anyway. He was said to be getting weaker. Though dying, he wasn't on death's door. Sunstar, if he wanted to choose her would habe done so regardless. He could have picked a senior warrior that would retire. And he said he never would have picked thistleclaw. Yes she didn't know this, but she could have taken how many border patrols and battles and just things he trusted him with. She should have paid better attention, especially is she was competing with him. As a bloodthirsty deputy sunstar would release he was the wrong choice and have him step down. She also, if still wanting to give them up, could have waited. That night wasn't the night tawnyspots died. She could have turned back. Maybe waited to see his condition. Or hid the pregnancy by telling goosefeather. And asking for herbs. He knew about it and would judge her but not say anything. She had other options. I wish they were looked inti

I love your videos! but yea, i feel the same, I also don't think she really had to give up her kits & say they died as she couldve told Sunstar about Thistleclaw like you mentioned ^^

Love ur vids

@5rcane

10 ай бұрын

Thanks!! ✨✨

She could have talked to Sunstar to begin with though? I didn't like that she felt like she had to do everything alone :U She never told Sunstar about what Thistleclaw allowed Tigerpaw to do to Tiny, and she's surprised that no one takes her hesitance on him seriously? Not to mention her hypocrisy of letting Longtail attack Rusty, or making Cinderpaw and her siblings apprentices at way too young an age. All in all, I don't like her because (in my opinion) she feels like everything is a woe is me pity party when she HAS A SUPPORT GROUP RIGHT THERE but chooses to alienate herself instead and never act on any of her worries. I don't know how the Erins were trying to write her, but I hate what she is. Even when I first read this book in middle school I never liked Bluestar.

Third! Love the video!

@5rcane

10 ай бұрын

TY!! 💜💜

@Akari_bean

10 ай бұрын

@@5rcane ofc I rlly look up to you and I admire all of your amazing art work and pmv amv ect :)

noOooOoOoo way thistle claw could have been leader- what he did to spotted leaf was unforgivable, and honestly there should have been some code against this, like spotted leaf should have added something to the code against what happened. Thistle claw is disgusting and spotted leaf’s heart should have NEVER existed. I honestly thought thistle claw was a good villain, but then I read spotted leaf’s heart and it was awful. It is disgusting. Disgusting, disgusting, disgusting.

@sophietremblay3795

10 ай бұрын

I hated reading the part where he was with her Urk I just wanted to jump on the part when she is not with him it was dreadful I was shivering from disgust the whole time

If I’m being honest I don’t think she might look desperate or she might look greedy is good reason for her to pick taking her kits away in a snowstorm than giving them to thrushpelt or any other cat along with telling Sunstar about thistleclaw’s actions. Fernsong himself offered to be a nursery queen for ivypool and while we haven’t seen much of him doing it, it’s apparent that no cat reacted poorly or thought it was strange so why would they for thrushpelt. Having kits then also wanting to become deputy shouldn’t be ‘greedy’ since fathers don’t get this kind of label for it, mothers shouldn’t either when there’s others to look after the kittens. I just do not believe these arguments to be valid in any way as these are things that ‘could’ happen as much as her kittens ‘could’ have died on the trip, in which one of them did.

@abrahamjean8176

10 ай бұрын

Well like they said it was a different time. She first of all didnt even give thurspelt that much say over her kits even tho she let the clan believe they were his by lack of saying otherwise and our real world politics cant be applied directly onto feral cats who just happen to live in a community as much as some in the fandom like to think its a direct correlation all the time.

@6ft_turkey_tea913

10 ай бұрын

@@abrahamjean8176 No where in my writing did I apply warriors to real life politics, and saying ‘it was a different time’ doesn’t make much sense either as there is simply no evidence that they thought any different back then, then they do now with Fernsong. Bluefur didn’t give thrushpelt more say in the matter, but he definitely would be more than willing to look after them if ask considering he already treated them as his own children.

@abrahamjean8176

10 ай бұрын

@@6ft_turkey_tea913 we don’t have evidence from the text but we can for sure look to the attitude of the writers for strong enough assumption that a sort of plot like that wouldn’t go through. They have shown us time and time again how slow to change they are when it comes to the progressiveness of clan culture. We don’t need evidence from the text to show us that they though differently because that simply wasn’t a thing that came in their minds as a possiblity so by default we can’t say that Bluestar had that as an option in all good faith. As a matter of fact, we have no other cat who either in Bluestars time or in the time after that has had come to a choice like that so how can we use any examples to say what she did was wrong?

@abrahamjean8176

10 ай бұрын

Plus you said it yourself that we didn’t see much of fernsong even doing his said duties which to me indicates that whatever sense of progression that the writers were attempting wasn’t lasting at all. You can’t take stuff that happens now and apply it to a book written 15 years ago and somehow use it as a way to invalidate some character’s decisions.

@6ft_turkey_tea913

10 ай бұрын

@@abrahamjean8176 didn’t you just say before that you preferred it when real life politics were kept out of warrior cats arguments?? Anyways it doesn’t matter whether the option to do that came up in the writers mind, but what matters is that in the context of warriors, with the idea that Fernsong offered to take Ivys kits and no where in the text was it called out as strange or new that Fernsong would do that, it can be assumed that that said in said warrior cats world, that option would be there for bluestar and so would be the better option then taking the kits out into the snowstorm or better yet, if the idea of a Tom looking after kittens is somehow, without evidence inside of warrior cats, be looked down upon, bluestar could have asked the other queen that was there at the time if they would be willing to help look after them (probably with thrushpelt as well) while she becomes deputy and is busy with those duties. This idea at the very least is more than possible if you take evidence from Squirrelflight being a mother and deputy at the same time, since she didn’t like the nursery, she left spark kit and alderkit mostly to the other queens as she performed the deputy duties. While I can easily see bluefur focused on her ambitions not realising that she could just do this, it doesn’t make her decision to take the kits out into the snowstorm a even slightly good one.

Yah, ngl I don’t think she should’ve given away her kits. Although most events wouldn’t have happened, like Redtail dieing, which is the primary goal of the entire first arc.

I think she should have kept her kits but it would mess up the warriors time line

sunstar would never have chosen thistleclaw anyway

An yes. Emotionally abusing your clan and getting people killed, and neglecting your children and getting one of them killed is ok because you lost 3 people in your life and your 100% in the right

Ah yes neglecting and purposely putting your children is the best decision