Hi, thanks for this video. On high frame rates. Data rates are only one limiting factor, the sensor read out speed also limits frame rates. It's why the fastest frame rates can occur when the sensor is in S16 mode.

@NeverlandProductions

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment! That makes sense 🤔. I interpreted as the two being connected ei it can't read out faster because it's limited by data rate output. But no, what you say makes sense

Dude, this is fascinating. Thank you for explaining it so well - this is an awesome video. I want to see what a quad-bayer video looks like.

If I'm correct, RawLite makes an OLPF for BM cameras (well, the pocket 4K and 6K, and the Ursa Mini G2). Their results are really great too. I wonder if they'll make an OLPF for the Ursa Mini Pro 12K. Ever since I got into filmmaking, my biggest complaint has been how the cameras I've used handled moire and how BM cameras handle IR pollution. Thanks for the upload and conversation pieces. Oh, and super35 is the standard for cinema. Full frame is a photography standard. ARRI (past and present cameras) RED, Canon, Panasonic... they all use super35 except for their large format sensor cameras.

@NeverlandProductions

4 жыл бұрын

Yes RawLite does make OLPFs and they should fit on this model as well without any extra work... but. The characteristics of it might need to be adjusted for the new sensor ans pattern. I guess I also forgot to mention how it doesnt seem that they've addressed their IR pollution issue... I assume it's just as bad on this camera, that probably didn't change, infact the clear photosites are probably more sensitive to IR

@godboy159

3 жыл бұрын

@@NeverlandProductions Why do you think they keep releasing cameras that are heavily affected by IR Pollution?

Clear explanation, thanks.

I agree that the two competing concepts of higher resolution with smaller photosites on the one hand (BMD) and lower resolution with bigger photosites on the other (Arri, Sony A7s) needs to be investigated more. I mean, one of them has got to be superior to the other. I have a feeling that oversampling in the end gives you the cleaner image with more detail. I realized that first with the Sony a6300 which was one of the first cameras to downsample its 4k image from a 6k sensor readout. The image was increadibly detailed and sharp. Good point you are making that no matter how many photosites are on the sensor, the amount of light hitting it is the same. Just being processed by more or less photosites. And it only makes sense that more results in a cleaner image.

@NeverlandProductions

4 жыл бұрын

One of my points is that it's not as black and white, often other factors like the filter pattern or if it's back side or front side illuminated, etc. Play a bigger role in noise performance than pixel pitch. DXO Mark measures these things, and we have data to back up this claim, However, when it comes to video and how it's compressed, encoded, etc more megapixels usually does mean more noise just because of how intensive the processing would be to actually use all the extra date efficiently when downscaling. That's a concern when BM says they're downscaling raw. But overall I'd hope they do a good job with it, and we in fact get the benefits of proper downscale as opposed to.. Say the difference in the R5 between 4K HQ (Downscaled from 8K): a great looking image and regular 4k which is not great (not downscaled, l;ine skipping people say?).

Thank you

Now we know the camera is amazing -and so is Grant Petty, god bless him.

4 x 4 with RGB + White makes perfect sense but I am not sure what to substitute green screens with.

@NeverlandProductions

3 жыл бұрын

It's more or less a level playing field! If this style of sensor becomes standard we might see blue screen make a come back (for the benefits of being the least present on skin tones)

I think it's pronounced 'Mwa-ray'. Originally from the French 'Moiré': en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern

@NeverlandProductions

3 жыл бұрын

Thats what I thought before reocrding but had google read it and went with that.

Downscaling of RAW was realized in Slimraw years ago. And it was working with most of known raw formats like DNG. Without any moire. So at least 2x downscaling of true bayer raw is possible.

@NeverlandProductions

4 жыл бұрын

Interesting, I remember coming across slimraw years ago, and thought they only did compression, not down scaling but you're right they seem to do it. The thing is, they're doing it mathematically and that would increase processing in the camera and would likely not allow for higher frames when down scaled. It also seems to be limited to half res of original, where BM has more flavors available... I wonder if we'll see other companies try to implement this on their Bayer sensored cameras.

@MichaelWeizenfeld

4 жыл бұрын

@@NeverlandProductions i think in camera, sensor has pixel binning options which can be called some sort of downscaling. If you remember old 5D3 ML with full hd raw it was clear and sharp without moire despite sensor was 5K.

@MichaelWeizenfeld

4 жыл бұрын

I more wonder how 12k sensor deals with diffraction.

Are there other examples of layouts that include white filters?

@NeverlandProductions

3 жыл бұрын

Good question! Other than straight up black and white sensors not that I know of.

@Aviyoyopdx

3 жыл бұрын

@@NeverlandProductions interesting thanks for the answer!

Is it possible to read only the W pixels and get real monochrome out of the same sensor? Im waiting for someone to use these tiny pixels so, that they are simply collapsed to one pixel with true RGB values. As sub 2 micron pixels are already too small for lenses to resolve. This i think would be the way to use these tiny pixels, so we could finally stop the upscaling bayer sensors. At 80mp, this sensor could already produce true 4k, with 3x8MP.

The listing on the Black Magic website states that URSA Pro K is oversampled which tells me that the BRAW can't be a raw readout of the sensor when the image is uncropped and not 12K.

@DeanHarringtonimages

3 жыл бұрын

I think Grant Perry said, there is 'some type of debayering' processing in-camera to make the 'braw' output easier to deal with in post...?

@DeanHarringtonimages

3 жыл бұрын

I realize the camera does not use a Bayer pattern in the sensor, so, it's still a bit confusing what was meant by in-camera processing?

Should be a 70mm sensor at this resolution.

Also they're targeting the cinema market and there aren't that many 35 mil cine lenses

@NeverlandProductions

4 жыл бұрын

For sure, though I think we'll see more and more come out

How can i install davinci resolve on my smartphone

Amazing you do great keep going 👑✨🎥 Kader from “Optical Power” youtube channel 🎥

Super35 is normal.... full frame is never used for filmmaking..

@NeverlandProductions

4 жыл бұрын

The alexa LF, XT, 65, Red Monstro, Movo LF, Sony Venice and Fx9 and Canon C700 all left the chat.

@NeverlandProductions

4 жыл бұрын

I get your point but there does seem yo be more of a demand for larger format cinema sensors. I called it the large format craze

@elissitdesign

4 жыл бұрын

Not true. Never say never.