I think the implication is that Cersei HAD mostly forgotten about the Maggy the Frog Prophesy for years, and was slightly reminded of it when Tyrion made his Ashes in the Mouth threat, and then when Joffrey dies in front of her, the full PTSD kicks in and only now after all this has happened can she never stop thinking about it.

@RoastedToasted0

Жыл бұрын

Oh yea I like this take, makes sense to me

@umwha

Жыл бұрын

You know what George should have done? Have it that Cersei always remembered the prophecy but she didn’t know what ‘valinqar’ meant. Have it that in Feast, she meets someone (Qyburn?) who can translate that words, and only then she learns it means ‘little brother ‘ and then all her hatred of Tyrion retraumatises her and she thinks it’s all been a prophecied plot.

@FaV1

Жыл бұрын

@@umwhaI don't think that works. If she always remembered the prophecy and she thinks about it regularly why would she not go find out what it means? it shouldn't be too difficult really

@gustavoferroni2693

Жыл бұрын

Exactly and then Tywin is killed by Tyrion. Even though this was not part of the prophecy, the trauma would just increase her paranoia

@umwha

Жыл бұрын

@@FaV1 Cersei is intellectually incurious, and, as demonstrated in the memory, she states she disbeleives the prophecy in order to cope with it. Alternately, have it that Cersei had a smattering of High Valyrian language training (like Tyrion) and she mistranslates the word. Perhaps she thinks it means 'Little Men' which she takes to mean 'Small Folk' as in peasants, and the prophecy is telling her to 'beware peasants' hence why she is so closed off an snobbish about them, in contrast to Margery. Cerseis ego would make her assured that her own idea of the translation is correct that she never seeks correction of her own accord.

I think a reasonable explanation for the night forts giant mouth door and the nights watch vow needing to be said is to remind the brothers each and every time they have to hand over a sacrifice why they are doing it. To remind them they do this for the realm. It can't be easy psychologically to willingly hand over a baby to what they basically see as ice demons.

@gustavoferroni2693

Жыл бұрын

Wouldn't it be cool if Jon Snow comes back to life and becomes kind of a new night king? Jon declares himself King, takes the Night Fort as his seat and begins using the door. He doesn't sacrifice or comunicate with the Others but everybody thinks he does. That would be a good plot

@SalsaAndChips

Жыл бұрын

@@gustavoferroni2693 this had been explored in a few fanfics. "The north remembers" by qqueenofhades definitely explores this and is one of the better fanfics out there

@SingingSealRiana

Жыл бұрын

very good point!

@ser_ryon_vine6392

Жыл бұрын

Love this

@D0omscream

Жыл бұрын

This. Preston was just projecting his lack of imagination.

I really like the idea that Varys is just playing both sides with Aegon being neither the true heir nor a secret Blackfyre. It fits so well thematically. It also makes the mummer's dragon thing fit better too, because if Aegon was a secret Blackfyre, he'd at least have _some_ claim to the throne, so the idea that he's a complete fake and Varys is playing _both_ sides is fun (and has historical precedence in the Dunc and Egg stories).

@uthorofthehightower3367

Жыл бұрын

"Mummer's dragon" doesn't necessarily mean he's fake. It can be interpreted as "Varys's Targaryen"

@JaCob_101_

11 ай бұрын

​@@uthorofthehightower3367yeah that's how I've always looked at it

> Where would the Conqueror's crown go? Wherever Conqueror's crowns go... I'm really surprised there aren't millions of "genuine Aegon's crowns" sold on every market for 4 stags a piece.

They're going to get word that Stannis died at the Wall (maybe true, maybe not), Selyse and Melisandre will sacrifice Shireen to ressurect him, but Melisandre will resurrect Azor Ahai. Oops John comes back to life and finally Melisandre gets it.

I think that the third Blackfire treasure is Dany's mother's crown. Queen Rhaella crown was very important to Dany and her brother, and giving that crown back to her can be a way to manipulate her. It fits really well also with Dany's overall arc, since the crown that now she has is from a foreign land (Qart) and symbolized her reign in Mereen. Discharging that crown for the crown of her mother could be a way to emphasize how now she is completely focus on reconquering Westeros

@konfluxspelaren

Жыл бұрын

Would that be a treasure of the Blackfyres though? I do like your idea, and it would be nice to have it come back into the story. Especially if (as I remember anyway) it was more important to Viserys than to Dany. Dany could be given it, and end up having to chose between carrying it, and accept following her brothers obsession, or discard it for something represent her actual parents (if we buy into the idea of Dany not being a real Targaryen). Like I said, I like the idea, but I don't know enough to understand why/how Rhealla's crown could be called on of Blackfyres three treasures.

@umwha

Жыл бұрын

Maybe Rhaellas crown was made as a replica of ‘the conquerors crown’ (it could be like aegons crown or rhaenys or Visenya since they were conquerors too). Therefore, the crown that is offered to Daenerys would fool her into thinking it’s her mothers but it’s actually the original. Meanwhile, Faegon gets a crown too but it’s actually Rhaellas. It would make a funny point about symbols of legitimacy.

@jsky2695

Жыл бұрын

@@umwhawell, Rhaella is Rhaegars mother and the only one who was saved from the tragedy at summerhall. So the crown could have two things going for it that would make it interesting to the blackfyres. 1) if Faegon truly is a Blackfyre that they are trying to pass off as a Targaryen.. the crown of Rhaella may bring some legitimacy to that claim. 2) being an item that was present during the great blood sacrifice that is the tragedy of summer hall, it could have some magical properties that we are not aware of

@ashtton_tapiwa

Жыл бұрын

@@konfluxspelaren Viserys and Dany sold Rhaella's crown out of desperation, right? Illyrio and/or Varys could have easily used their connections to get their hands on it. OR even more calculated, Varys/Illyrio could have influenced some of the peopled that housed young Dany & Viserys to abandon them hence creating the desperation. Anyway they have enough time and resources to get their hands on the crown, it's really plausible.

Who ever is loyal to house Lannister at the wall must have powerful friends.

George might do what Miura did in Berserk. Stannis sacrifices Shireen in order to return to glory, after being tortured and flayed by Ramsay. Since George likes taking away the most important aspects to a characters' identity, like Cersei in the walk of shame or Jaime losing his hand. I can see George doing something similar with Stannis; Stripping away his persona of a strong, proud, unbending man. It would put him in a low enough position to where I could see him making the decision to sacrifice his daughter. We also know that George intends the dire wolves and Ramsey's dogs to have a confrontation. Maybe that could happen in a plan to rescue Stannis from the Boltons?

I think that the burning of Shireen will happen. However it is not going to happen in the first battle of ice, against Ramsay, but in the real one, to help against the Others. It makes much more sense, for Stannis. You can fight men with steel, but to fight monsters you need a bigger sacrifice. His daughter for the safety of the kingdom. The fact that Shireen death is going to be useless and senseless will only be more tragic.

The way I see the burning of Shireen going down is after Jon is stabbed & Mel hears the news that Stannis is dead, she'll consult the fires & end up seeing a vision that makes her believe she needs to burn Shireen to bring Stannis back. (Maybe at the Nightfort) Which she easily convincs Selyse of After which, Jon will come back as some kind of wight. And regardless of whether or not it actually had anything to do with Jon's resurrection or if he really is AAR, that's exactly what Mel will think Selyse will probably call it quits & unalive herself, and Stannis will blame himself because I'm pretty sure it's his plan to fake his own death. Which will set all this into motion & trigger the burning of Shireen I think he's going to pull off the Night lamp theory to kill the Frays, and then join forces with Manderly. (Davos & Rickon might be back by then, too) Manderly will send word back to to Winterfell that Stannis is dead, then Stannis will dress up his southern men in Frey cloths & join forces with the Northern lords inside to take back Winterfell So right after he's had the biggest victory of his entire campaign, I think he'll get the news of Shireen & realize that his ploy may have won him Winterfell & the Lords of the North, but it also cost him his only daughter & probably one of the only individuals he actually cared about Another potentially interesting angle to this is what Devan will do during all this. Will he stick up for his classmate & friend? Or will he go full on religious fanatic & help Mel (someone he seems infatuated with) to lure Shireen to her cruel demise 😬 And as far as the pink letter goes, that could still be anyone. It could be Ramsey going off of what Manderly tells him. It could be Mance trying to call in reinforcements. It could be Stannis with the help of Theon & Manderly. (But Idk what they'd need Jon for? They probably have enough forces between the two of them & presumably have a Lord of Winterfell in Rickon) Or it could be someone at the Wall riffing off of the news of Stannis (supposed) defeat

@umwha

Жыл бұрын

Love that! I think it’ll happen like this: with Jon dead the wildlings take over the wal, and Seyse and Mel are made prisoners. The wildling plan to burn shireen because greyscale. Mel is unable to stop this. Because she’s a witch she remains somewhat respected by some wildlings, but is basically powerless. Mel pretends to go along with what the wildlings want. (Perhaps that this point they get word that stannis is dead). Shireen is burned on the same pyre as Jon is burned. Mel uses this oppurtunity to try to use the power of kings blood to bring back stannis. However, it raises Jon instead. All the wildlings see this and fall to their knees, like the Dothraki did to Dany. When stannis returns, he may blame Mel for burning shireen, even though she didn’t have much of a choice.

@jsull81

Жыл бұрын

@@umwha this is a good guess too, and I also think Jon could end up on the pyre (maybe Mel, as well) to mimic what we saw with Dany. Thanks for reminding me : )

@umwha

Жыл бұрын

@@jsull81 Yeah, Maybe they put Mel on the Pyre, and she starts doing a chant of resist-fire or something. That would perfectly mirror Dany. The three elements: a dead royal child (Rhaego/ Shireen), a witch (Mirri / Mel) and a dead king (Drogo/ Jon).

@jsull81

Жыл бұрын

@@umwha exactly! That's definitely a very George thing to do, lol

@gustavovaniterson9474

Жыл бұрын

I think the exact thing, and to make it more emotionally impactful. What if she uses a glimmer to hide her identity as DAVOS😨. In the past she made a weird comment about a bag of fingerbones. What if she has it in her possession and uses this personal item in the ritual. Imagine Shireen seeing herself being burned by a person she considered a friend.

My theory is that not every brother can open the door. Only those who swore an oath in front of a heart tree

@nurdersvw8070

Жыл бұрын

Who did this except from Jon and Sam?

@trevinwolverine1904

Жыл бұрын

​@@nurdersvw8070 The thousands of northern nights watchmen since the erection of the wall?

@JaCob_101_

11 ай бұрын

​@@nurdersvw8070maybe all of the nights watch men thousands of years ago idk

Regarding the Nightfort gate, I would like to believe the only way to get pass would be using the night's watch creed if you swore it before a wierwood tree...as in the the gate is connected to the tree network and can confirm your oath.

@CharlesFreck

Жыл бұрын

I'm almost certain this is true. Because Sam can open it, and I believe Sam swearing his vows with Jon matters to the story and George intends for us to keep this in mind. It's not the Words that are important, it's tradition and your roots. Only Northerners who follow the Old Gods swear oaths in front of a heart tree, and a vow in front of a heart tree can be considered more valuable, as it's said the Old Gods know if you're lying. Sam may have, unintentionally, allowed the Children of the Forest and the Weirwood-net to see that he intends to keep his vows and can be relied upon to help them against the Others. I can't think that their isn't greater significance in the story to Sam swearing his vows in front of the Heart Tree, and that him opening the gate is meant to be a clue to us about that.

@PortCityBalrog

11 ай бұрын

I love this

The wildling princess Val is the one who will push to burn Shireen.

I think the 3rd treasure is probably the crown, but putting on my thickest, most reflective tinfoil I would like to posit that it was actually Dragonbinder.

@TheDelinear

Жыл бұрын

That's what immediately came to my mind, too. I think Preston has even discussed in the past, what if Dragonbinder doesn't actually bind dragons to men, but men to dragons (i.e. Targaryens, and by extension Blackfyres). What is a symbol of a king, if not a means of binding men to kings through pageantry and tradition? However, maybe that was a thread George was pulling at and then dropped. If it were true, I would have expected some mention of it in relation to Aegon the Conqueror, so at this point the crown is the more likely explanation.

Really enjoying these breakdowns of what might have been and all the speculation from it. My appetite for Winds has grown out of control again. Come on George, give us the novel by next year please I beg, it's been almost 9 years since I first read the books, I can't take this anymore.

@PowerfulSkeleton

19 күн бұрын

Hello from a year in the future! I hope you're enduring the wild ride.

One could easily argue it took Joffrey’s death for Cersei to remember the prophecy

@donaldjgumpofficial5754

Жыл бұрын

Especially because Tyrion is the suspect.

@jewsco

Жыл бұрын

@@donaldjgumpofficial5754 yep 👍

@aguglie441

Жыл бұрын

Or to “misremember”

@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. Preston seems to think that everyone in the story has perfect knowledge at all times.

@jewsco

Жыл бұрын

@@aguglie441 that too as humans memories are notoriously bad and over time we fill in the blanks with other things we have experienced

My idea for the third treasure would be a surviving copy of Septon Barth's Unnatural History, because knowledge is power (especially if it is dragon lore).

@lordmelvin9310

Жыл бұрын

That doesn't really make sense. Why would Griff command Tyrion to write down whatever he knew of the dragonlore if he just got the ultimate dragonlore book from Illyrio? Maybe he just couldn't come up with anything worthwhile for Tyrion to do, but then why not give Tyrion the book to read?

@equinoxomega3600

Жыл бұрын

@@lordmelvin9310 Probably because the idea of the three treasures got abandoned later and now Tyrion fills that role. But yes, with the current status of the story, the idea doesn't work well anymore.

@lordmelvin9310

Жыл бұрын

@@equinoxomega3600 Fair enough.

Guys if Stannis decides to burn Shereen is because her Greyscale awakes again (as Val predicts) and some people get infected (maybe Selyse and Patchface too).

@gooby214

15 күн бұрын

There's no such thing as greyscale "awaking again". Val is an uneducated savage expressing irrational fears for a disease she doesn't understand. There's literally not a single case of greyscale "returning" from cured victims. We don't have ANY precedent of a cured victim becoming sick again. Also Stannis would never resort to BURN Shireen just because of disease. He'd just have a humane euthanization. And I'll take the studies from educated scholars over the freak out of some wildling woman any day.

31:15 I know GRRM likes his occasional shocking death but I think a burning for the sake of shock value is more of a D&D things. So if GRRM would have Stannis burn Shireen I think rather than asking if it’s in Stannis’ character we should focus on asking what he’d be trying to say? Thematically why is it important that Stannis does the burning rather than Selyse or Melisandre? As Preston has pointed out numerous times this theme of sacrificing your children seems to be big with GRRM and is probably a commentary on sending young people off to war and perhaps is a biblical parallel as well. On the biblical front, there’s the stories of both God with Jesus and Abraham with Issac. Since he’s obviously using Melisandre and worshipers of the Red God to comment on religious extremism those biblical parallels seem important. I would say the only problem is that he hasn’t set up Stannis as genuinely religious fanatic who would be willing to burn his own daughter for his deeply held religious beliefs. Maybe instead Stannis is supposed to symbolize people who uses religious fanaticism purely for political ends and maybe GRRM is trying to say there’s isn’t an actual difference between the two?Like saying there isn’t a difference between a bigot and someone using bigotry to their advantage because in the end you’ll end up doing the exact same terrible things even if you believe your motivations to be more logical? (I know this comment is SUPER long but just some of my thoughts on the Stannis plot)

@AS-fi7hc

Жыл бұрын

The Mireen story proves that GRRM was influenced by the US’ wars on terror and there was definitely a debate raging back in the 2000s about how much of that was religious vs being purely political using religion as a cover

@AS-fi7hc

Жыл бұрын

It may still be off logically but at least it fits thematically which makes it seem more likely to actually happen

@barbaraludwiczak6798

Жыл бұрын

Stannis burning Shireen in exchange for the snow to melt makes no sense given the fact that Stannis once survived the siege of Storm's End eating boot leather. That's where D&D failed Stannis, probably because they didn't understand this character and didn't like him. I was never Stannis fan though I can understand his popularity. What comes to mind here is mythological reference i.e. Agamemnon sacrificing Iphigenia in order to get a wind so that his fleet could sail to Troy. there is only one problem - Stannis doesn't resemble Agamemnon and Rhllor religion doesn't resemble Greek religion. Agamemnon is greedy, rapacious and dishonest. He is more of a thug than lawful king. So your biblical reference is much more relevant - sacrificing a child for the love of God. And still, just as you had mentioned Stannis is no Abraham as well. Stannis burning Shireen to defeat the others makes more sense yet it is still repugnant. And in the past Stannis and Melisandre burned people they considered "pagans" those who didn't reject the Faith of the Seven. They used burning as a form of punishment - they burned some cannibals, as far as i recall, burned traitors, some Florents, i reconn. Some soldiers wanted to burn Asha Greyjoy to prove the superiority of Rhllor over the Drowned God, I suppose. Burning Shireen might look very weird, especially to the other R'hllor believers. Shireen is young and innocent, she was also raised in Red God religion. Also, thematically, it's stag in flames, not a doe in flames. I think the best possible option would be if it were Stannis who would walk into the flames. The best scenario would be if Stannis agreed to burn Shireen, yet at the last moment decided to sacrifice himself. That would be much more consistent with his character. Yes, sacrificing children is big in ASIOAF, yet if there were one person who could avoid this trope, this could be Stannis. I mean he is dutiful and lawful. It would be nice if his death came as a shock to Melisandre who is kind of a deluded hack.

@alexanderguerrero347

Жыл бұрын

There is a another biblical parallel Saul and David. Saul didn’t listen to god and sacrificed something he shouldn’t have because he wanted to keep the better livestock for himself and in turn lost favor with god and the prophet latched on to another king David. Stannis maybe not being a true believer and maybe sacrificing shireen when he shouldn’t have would lead to a new azor ahai. Jon. Who rises because of shireens death and Melisandre is the prophet in this scenario

@mschell8022

Жыл бұрын

Wow great ideas, you should make your own theory vid about this

I’ve been looking forward to this - Count Dooku

@chadsummerchild1120

Жыл бұрын

Goodbye hands 🙌🏼

GRMM specifically told D&D that Shireen would be burned? Somehow I didn't realize that. Season 5 came out in 2015. I don't know how much work George has done to ASOIAF in the past 8 years, but maybe he changed that plot point. Or Stannis gets his victory over the Boltons but sacrifices Shireen in a later struggle against the White Walkers. But is that the entire Stannis story? I'd like to see more moving pieces before a potential big WW showdown. Personally, I'm okay with Jon not coming back (I like Stannis more), but I'd be okay with a resurrection scene if it makes sense doesn't suck ass like the show (I've seen great theories in the comment section here). Yeah, Book 6 will look nothing like Season 6 of GOT. So many big battles and moments are set up for the book (Stannis v Bolton, Euron v Lannisters, Griff v Storm's End, potential dragon fight over Mereen with Quienten and Victarion, whatever the heck happens to Jaime and Brienne, etc.) that completely contradict the nonsense the show gave us.

I don't think that we would ever really know what happened to Shireen, because there is no POV Character. It would be through Davos eyes and he'd blame Melisandre and defend Stannis.

@trevinwolverine1904

Жыл бұрын

Jon is dead and Sam is in essos that works out My dumbass forgot melisandre had her own chapter

@gooby214

15 күн бұрын

@@trevinwolverine1904 Sam is at the Citadel at Oldtown, not in Essos anymore.

The third treasure of the Blackfyres is obviously friendship!

Nobody but builders occupy the night Fort. Queen selyse delayed inhabiting it. The nights watch mutineers may use it as a defensible position.

With Cersei and the moon tea revelation, why is it that Pycelle knows that information? (or did he lie about the moon tea?) Why wouldn't Margaery trust Ballabar instead of Pycelle (or did Ballabar leave court with Paxter Redwyne to attack Dragonstone?) And why didn't she trust her own maester - "Margaery is still convinced he will not die," she reported, as the queen was dressed for court. "She plans to send her own maester to look after him. The cousins are praying for the Mother's mercy." (Cersei VIII AFfC) - unless she means send the Highgarden maester from Highgarden to Dragonstone to look after Loras?

@aguglie441

Жыл бұрын

Maybe Pycelle knows because he is the one that is managing the inventory of potions, poisons and the such. Edit: that is my only guess as to why

@CharlesFreck

Жыл бұрын

Who knows? Pycelle could be lying, Pycelle could be the only one with access to Moon Tea, Pycelle could've found out some other way. We don't really know.

With that third Blackfyre treasure, is it possible that it was going to be Aegon's crown? like, Aegon the Fourth gave Daemon the crown at the same time as he gave him the sword? But then GRRM changed his mind and lost the crown with Daeron I in Dorne (I think the fate of the crown is only discussed in the world book, never in the main series?).

Vis a vis prior Cercei and mad Maggie the Frog Cercei... having your child brutally murdered right in front of you miiiiiiight alter your sanity/make you reevaluate prior stances on your adversaries a little bit ;) i think it squares up well.

@lordmelvin9310

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, she kind of obsesses over Joff in AffC.

Remember when Theon and Yara met Daenerys and Yara and Daenerys had this weird flirtatious moment, that later went nowhere?

Very minor, but it's that there are two Houses Kenning, one of which has its seat in Kayce, not two houses Kayce.

I think what the history books are setting up is Cannibal, he is made of particular note in Fire and Blood, so much that it seems like he will come back in a big way in Winds.

Back are we and

Preston is the man.

Yeah, one of the things that never made sense in the overall strong "Aegon Blackfyre" theory is that the whole point of the Blackfyre cause was them considering themselves the more legitimate Targaryen line, so they had no need for secrecy, as pretending to be children of the "illegitimate" Daeron's line would go against the whole point of the Blackfyre cause. None of the suggestions given (oh, they will reveal it when Aegon is already king; oh, maybe they will whitewash the Blackfyres in their histories) really resolve that (especially when the Golden Company was apparently ready to work with Viserys if he had an army of the Dothraki). But if "Aegon Blackfyre" is just a story Varys tells the GC leaders, with a wink wink nudge nudge, and a mention of how Maelys failed despite good odds, so maybe they can work with other Targaryen supporters for now by making them hope for Rhaegar's son reborn, I can believe that Strickland and co. would shut up and stay silent about many things, hoping that "the prince who has the blood of Daemon" would lead the victory if only they could get support for "false Targaryen line" supporters, too.

Loved the entire video Preston. The secret door with the magic tree was one of my favorite parts of ASOS, and I'm sad that you're probably right in that George will drop it, and it won't be mentioned again. I also liked how you pointed out at the end of the video that George does major rewriting and isn't afraid to drop or add stuff, he told us this in the July 2022 blog post, but this is just more evidence that Winds will be nothing like Got.

Yo Preston thanks for sticking out so long on these videos man. I know you get on people's asses when they don't read the books but man some of us just dont have time and we need to watch people who know what they are talking about to discuss the books and everything about them so we can enjoy the story too. I think you are a bit underappreciated because even though some of your theories aren't all the most popular necessarily in the theory community, I think you probably give the most well thought out, fleshed out and detailed thoughts on all things ice and fire and I think you are pretty much spot on with most of your shit. I think you were so spot on that Gerorge himself didn't know what to do about it so he had to change it all up and here we are..

On the door I have a thought that it's a voice recognition plus password system. Only those who know the words and have spoken the words in front of some weirwood in the Haunted Forest can pass. Which, by the way, would mean Sam got extremely lucky he could pass. And, well, having people give their Snows to the tree is probably more acceptable for them than giving kids directly to the Others. So, nothing rational here, just some religious imagery, meaning of which is probably lost.

So just because Pycelle said that sellsword ships would attack the shipping of Freys, that means that the Manderlys would attack? That's a huge leap, they are in an alliance at this point.

@trevinwolverine1904

Жыл бұрын

Manderly ships are a backup for the long night when the Redwyne and Greyjoy fleets destroy themselves in the battle of blood

The third treasure could be the bloodline itself. I mean the blackfyres were legitimized and they are of targarean decent so genetically they have what they need to be rulers and have dragons.

Third treasure can be golden company

@orthog42

Жыл бұрын

The third treasure was friendship.

@johkupohkuxd1697

Жыл бұрын

@@orthog42 No, its love.

Stannis scoring a Nightlamp win at the crofters village but then being routed by the main army, still warm and cozy at Winterfell, is an easy answer to how he wins and loses. Stannis' remaining forces, bruised and battered, making for the Nightfort as a semi-defensible refuge after being harried all the way to the wall by some of Bolton's acclimated northmen seems reasonable.

@OfficialRedTeamReview

Жыл бұрын

I can definitely see that. Good call

About the “mouth door” I had just reread asoiaf recently… and had thought to myself that if nights watch only have to say the vow to open it… why wouldn’t Mance just use that for the wildlings to cross the wall?

@madelynmorgan2999

Жыл бұрын

for thousands and thousands of ppl and their animals? when they thought it wouldn’t beThat hard to defeat castle black and break thru the unfrozen wall gates? they totally would have succeeded too, without Stannis ex Machina. it just makes more logistical sense to knock out the crows and go through castle black. plus who knows that mance even knew abt the black gate

@MrSilvUr

Жыл бұрын

How would he know about it?

@umwha

Жыл бұрын

@@MrSilvUr the modern nights watch clearly don’t know about it

4:23 I suppose this also speaks to the Blackwood vs Bracken feud; it doesn’t matter how or why it started, continuing it results in more bloodshed; might as well just end it altogether. But the question is always going to be “Ok, how ?” And neither side is willing to back down, and more bloodshed ensues.

JonCon, Aegon and the crew don't know that he's a Blackfyre but I'm pretty convinced that Aegon is Illyrio's and Saera Blackfyre's son. But yeah I agree that Varys and Illyrio probably won't reveal this publicly, only to certain people who would only support a Blackfyre

On second thought, let's not go to the Night Fort. Tis a silly place

I think the lack of Maggie makes sense - Tyrion and Cersei seem to have a much better relationship in AGOT, to the point that Tyrion believes that Cersei would probably help him get out of the Vale. But their relationship is a lot worse at the start of ACOK.

The only way I can think of Jon returning, besides being a Lady Stoneheart type of wight who is either possessed or just turns evil is by a complete accident bait-and-switch and my idea is honestly really bad but worth thinking about. In the chaos of the coup and the attack on the Wildlings, Ghost and any of Jon's friends left at Castle Black grab him and drag him to the ice cells where his blood loss lessens and they manage to stabilize him enough that he's not "dead" but really fucked up like the victim of a prison shanking. After Mel sacrifices Shireen, Jon and Co. reemerge from the ice cells and everyone thinks he's some god because he survived the stabbing. Or say fuck it and have him just become a monster. Or say double fuck it and have him stay dead. But my idea at least beats the trope of the hero returning from the grave and we all know he was actually alive the whole time. So he's a sort of anti-chosen one who just gets the role thrust on him. Also I love the idea that we've thought Jon Snow has been dead for over 12 years and in reality he's just slowly bleeding out in the snow lol

@notyourproblemnope8582

Жыл бұрын

The problem here is Jon is dead. He was dead before the fourth stab

@chrisjohnstonSolway

Жыл бұрын

I had though Jon should be raised by the Others and become similar to Coldhands. A lot of his story arcs are how he sees things differently and that changes him like with the wildlings. The dreams of him armoured in black ice and him checking if the dead bodies in the ice cells have risen seem like foreshadowing to me. After all, there must always be a Lich King or a Stark in Winterfell.

@aceambling7685

4 ай бұрын

Jon being resurrected doesnt necessitate him becoming a Stoneheart type of wight. Jon's soul can hide out in Ghost, meaning he wont deteriorate like Catelyn. However, he will be changed, more wolflike. Quicker to violence and more concerned with his own desires. Furthermore, by hiding out in Ghost his soul wont be solely beholden to R'hllor(which is probably a Volcryn that the Maesters call the Red Comet), he will remain connected to Bran, Bloodraven, and the Weirwoodnet via Ghost.

If you're leaning into the post high tech society/interregnum scenario, then the Black Gate as a kind of vault door could make sense. The "eyes" would then be perhaps some kind of motion detector system, which is how the gate "knows" someone approaches. The "lips" would just be the door seal (I'm picturing a door which opens vertically, with two panels, one going down and one going up, so that when it opens from the centre, it looks like a mouth opening). The voice and vows stuff would then just be a form of password/phrase access. I'm trying to thing how someone from a pseudo medieval setting would describe such a high tech doorway, and a talking face whose eyes glow and whose mouth opens to swallow those who pass through fits the bill. It's also possible the door was just literally designed to look like a face of course, possibly for reasons of religion or tradition - just look at some of the wacky traditions we uphold in places like Westminster in the UK even today. There's any number of reasons why someone capable of engineering such a thing might go with that weird design choice, and once the technology is lost - well, any sufficiently advanced technology (relative to the observer) starts to look like magic, right?

I think it’s funny that some house in Dorne is holding onto this ancient crown of Targaryen kings that they could make a lot of money if they try to sell but they’re scared of bringing the Targaryen wrath down upon them or something lol and then when the bratheons took over they just thought it didn’t matter anymore

Do you think you get tax returns in the GOT world?

Actually Preston, 'Pretender' isn't a negative term in the context. 'Blackfyre Pretender' refers to the Blackfyre claimant to the throne. For example, the Jacobite Pretender to the throne of the United Kingdom is Franz Herzog von Bayern, a direct descendant of the defunct House of Stuart. That being said, I think this is meant to be ironic, because I do agree that Aegon is being presented to the Golden Company as Aegon Blackfyre. So, he is pretending to be the Blackfyre Pretender. I'm personally of the opinion that Aegon is a lyseni commoner who just happens to have the right look.

@Ahrimanh86

Жыл бұрын

I gotta agree with you now man. Remember what The Eunuch said about who and how men hold power and what gives them that power? I never put 2 and 2 together before until reading your comment.

@Ahrimanh86

Жыл бұрын

Also...mandatory Stannis emoji ❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥

@thedemonhater7748

Жыл бұрын

I’m curious as to what thematic purpose it would serve if Aegon was a literal who instead of a blackfyre or a targaryen.

@umwha

Жыл бұрын

Pretender is negative. The Jacobite’s were the enemies of the British royal family, that wanted to overthrow them because they thought they were the true kings. So from the established royals perspective they were merely ‘pretending’ to be kings. Definitely not a neutral term

With this information now people can see why it takes so long for George to finish the book.

GRRM has referred to Shireen's burning as "Stannis' decision." It will be under different circumstances, but it will happen à la Men of Greywater Station/ASTNKM

The way Preston pronounces Arianne always makes me think he's saying Aerion

This is a great breakdown! Although not liking magic in fantasy series is bizarre😕

@TheDelinear

Жыл бұрын

I don't think it's as simple as "not liking magic" in the setting. It's more that, for many authors, magic is just a way for them to hand-wave away some cool stuff they want to include in their story. George, on the other hand, tends to like to explore the source of such things. Like, if magic was real in our world, what would be the scientific basis (and certain stuff like quantum entanglement definitely starts to feel like "magic" before you have the scientific tools and language to describe it). So, it's not so much that George would/could never have a pure magical setting, it's just that it's distinctly un-George to not at least explore where such magic comes from. Lots of "magical" things in the story could have simple scientific (or future science) explanations, but the Black Gate is such a weird outlier in this regard, assuming you take the reading of the text as literal.

Strange I was just looking up blackfyre content unrelated to these notes. Guess life has a funny way of taking me.

The Alayne chapter was awesome and is something I’m very interested in but doing 5 chapters all located in Dorne is a bit much imo. Like you couldn’t have thrown your audience a bone and done 1 stannis/Jon snow or even Tyrion/Danny chapter between them lol. The answer is yes, yes you could have. But honestly i do love the fan fic you’re writing so I’ll wait as long as I have to lol

@lordmelvin9310

Жыл бұрын

He's only done two chapters in Dorne, what are you talking about?

@TheDelinear

Жыл бұрын

Besides, you don't just rush into a Tyrion/Dany/Jon/Stannis chapter. Those chapters will be huge revelations to the story. I know we all want to read what happens to our favourite characters first, but let the people involved cut their teeth on these less anticipated (though still great!) chapters before diving into something so much bigger. The payoff will be so much better.

Everyone feels like Stanis in the Theon chapter is winning the battle, but all of writing would point to this leading to something bad happening to Stannis forces etc. I think the Frey's will fall into the ice, but I do not trust the manderlys, or even the Bolton's falling soon. With Jon gone and the Nights watch in rebellion there might be a call for Shireen and the Queen to flee to the Nightfort this might force Stanis to turn back to protect the realm as his duty, and this will give the Bolton's an opportunity to destroy his forces from the rear. This backs him into the corner, to burn Shireen to wake dragons, I also feel he will try to take Val as a bride in some way.

I think that 5 year gap would’ve been a good idea sometimes.

Does this mean that Manderly's fleet has no purpose anymore and will never be mentioned again?

@7PlayingWithFire7

11 ай бұрын

It'll probably serve a larger purpose, such as ferry an army over the sea, or clash with the greyjoys, etc

Fire could be the only cure at hand for Greyscvale.

I never imagined the weirwood door to have been constructed or designed. Nor do I think the wall was designed as part of a ‘give babies to the others scheme’. I think it’s more like : before the wall was built, there was an enormous grove of ancient weirwoods covering most of territory where the wall now stands. In the center was the Nightfort. This enormous grove has a organization of Druid guardsmen to protect the weirwoods and stop anyone from using its magic for dark purposes. The 13th commander of this Druid guard became the NK , after rediscovering the power that could be gained through sacrifice. This causes or is synchronised with the Long Night. In or around the Long Night, the groves of Weirwood are all magically frozen all at once, creating a gigantic jagged icy mountain range that is enchanted to never melt. I can imagine reasons that the Others would want to do this (as a fortress/ to enclose humanity in Westeros/ to makr their terriory/ or its a side effect of the Others emerging from or through the ancient weirwood grove) , and also reasons that the anti-Other forces would want this (to protect westeros from the North?). Thus, the weirwood door under ground is just part of the weirwood mycelium that’s always been there. Because it’s so old and well sacrificed to, it has a whisper of human consciousness, and can hear the vows of watch. Alternately, it may be directly controlled by an underground greenseer whose sacred purpose is to use his consciousness to awaken and open the door(s) when the vow is spoken. Remember, theres evidence that the Others emanate FROM the weirwood trees. So in ancient times, the door might not just have literally led through the wall. The Others might have been able to physically take the baby as it crosses the threshold of the door. Others seem to get around by materialising from the shadow of the trees, they dont actually go on long walks up and down the continent. It could have been that originally the CotF posessed ALL the terriory noth of the wall, the boundary marked by this long line of Weirgroves. Therefore, a weirwood door would allow the CotF via greenseers to control who actually can go into their northern territory. After or during the Long Night, humans, of course, colonised north of the wall too, and created the Nights Watch, originally druids, and took over the door.

@CharlesFreck

Жыл бұрын

But in the text the Night's Watch was founded after the Long Night. So the 13th Lord Commander had to be after the Long Night. It's the timeline. However, the Wall isn't explicitly placed before or after the Long Night. The Wall could have predated the Night's Watch. But the Night King needs to come after the Long Night. What do you mean Others materialise? Where's the textual evidence for that? I have never seen someone claim the Others can Weirwood net teleport. And we already know that the Weirdwood net stretches south of the wall, so the implications are huge. The Others wouldn't even need to cross the wall, they could just teleport to Winterfell direct. We know that the Children of the Forest were meant to have all the standing forests, and the First Men were only given the open lands. It's likely most of the North was covered in Weirwood Forests. The Pact was only broken much, much later when the Andals came. The Andals came well after the Long Night. So yes, originally the Children of the Forest didn't just possess land north of the wall, they held lands across much if not most of Westeros. Only when the Andals came long after the Long Night and the birth of the Seven Kingdoms did the Children of the Forest get forced out of the lands south of the wall. So your timeline is a little off. The Children absolutely still held power and land well south of the Wall during the time the Wall stood and during the time the Night's Watch existed. People often think that the people of Westeros and especially the Night's Watch simply forgot about the threat of the Others and the Night's Watches original purpose. But I firmly believe that the Andal invasion simply removed the old customs from people's minds, destroyed the Children of the Forest, and start to take over the Night's Watch with people who had no connection to the Long Night. No one forgot, they were conquered and colonised and the stories faded to myth and legend.

@umwha

Жыл бұрын

@@CharlesFreck Thanks for your reply. Let me respond to some points. The NK was said to be the 13th Lord Commander but that dosent imply that he was post-long night. The orgnaisation now known as the NW could have pre-long night origins. However, I now remember that the NK supposedly glimpsed the pale woman from atopt the wall, so he was definately Post-wall, but since the wall has an unknown time of origin, it dosent get us far. Or, the 'wall' mentioned in the story could be a different wall, as in, not THE ice wall, but maybe the wall of weirwood groves and fortresses that pre-date the wall in my theory? Others materialising - David Lighbriger on youtube covers this. Basically, whenever an other appear, its accompanied by snow falling off strees, and phrases like 'they emerged from the shadow of the wood' 'from the gloom of the wood' etc, and leaving no footprints, having no mounts etc suggest dematerialising. Land owned by Cotf: Yes, I ackonwledge CotF were said to have the forests and alot of territory in Westeros due to the pack (pre-andal). I'm just theorising that, in addition to that, they also had sole claim to all the land north of the place that is now the wall. Could have been that humans had no interest of land that cold, that far north, and it would be very much forested, so the CotF could have owned it all originally.

@jonttopia

Жыл бұрын

Are you implying that weirwoods are fungal or why do you call the root system "mycelium"?

I like the conquerors crown coming back

Who cuts Myrcella in the draft chapter? Is she cut at all?

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

@boatman2099

Жыл бұрын

i appreciate your consistency

@chadsummerchild1120

Жыл бұрын

This guy here this guy here.. Over here, he is committed respect.

@chadsummerchild1120

Жыл бұрын

@@boatman2099 you got in the comments 9 seconds before me respect to you Sir

I'd assume that the third treasure was their Valyrian ancestry, no? That it was the fact that they had "the Blood of Old Valyria" and the looks to prove it. Might also hint to those in the know that they might've inherited the gene of dragon riding.

I know that this is old now, but I think the Shireen burning will be in tandem with the arrival of the Others at the Wall, Stannis wins against the Bolton's and rallies the North but perhaps many things go poorly for Stannis, maybe the Winterfell roof collapse thing happens after Stannis occupies Winterfell and he loses many men and many lords and then has to go to man the Wall against the dead and takes the central position of the Nightfort and is increasingly pressured to pull a win and finally relents to burning Shireen, which will ultimately prove pointless.

I think Stannis could win the Battle of Ice and perhaps even successfully retake Winterfell, bringing his remaining men, Selyse and Shireen there only for the Horn of Winter to blown and the Wall collapsing, letting in the Others who besiege Winterfell where Stannis, in a last ditch effort burns Shireen to defeat the army of the dead only to find out too late that this was all in vain and all of them die fighting the Others.

Stannis beats the Freys, incorrectly assumes he defeated the main force, storms Winterfell, loses, spends 6 months getting back to the Wall through snowstorms and has his head chopped off by Bowen Marsh, the acting Lord-Commander.

@PG19871230

Жыл бұрын

BEWARE MARSH

Is the third treasure Bittersteel's skull in gold?

@lordmelvin9310

Жыл бұрын

The Golden Company already has it. "All the skulls were grinning, even Bittersteel's on the tall pike in the center." - The Lost Lord, ADwD

@DukeDukeGo

Жыл бұрын

@@lordmelvin9310 ​ @mwfp1987 Does it say the treaures are lost?

GRRM PLANNED IT ALL

Can the burning of Shireen be part of Jon's resurrection? Or his ability to warg from Ghost to his body again?

For the record, I'm very interested in the characters that have been covered in the fanfic so far, it's been awesome to spend more time with these less familiar characters!!

I know you don’t follow Sanderson but in previous videos you talk about GRRM making his early draft available which is also something Sanderson does with Way of King Prime and his other unpublished works. I think this is really great to see into the mind of the author and wished more would do that. Of course instances like what happened with Harper Lee is not good but I am kinda glad we got that material.

Preston it would be shocking if resurrected Jon Snow was to burn her. What if Jon would become the new Night King?

I honestly don't think Shireen will burn. My guess is there was a plan to Burn her at one point along with this other random stuff that D&D included. I'm going to assume he gave them a bunch of draft stuff.

Re.: Animated gates I read it as NW property for NW use, and scare anyone else off who happens on it. Or who doesn't have any babbies. (Powered by Storm's End ofc)

GET IN MAH BELAEAH!!! BABY THE OTHER OTHER WHITE MEAT!!!! I WANT MAH BABY BACK BABY BACK BABY BACK... CHILIS BAAAABY BAAACK RIIIIBS!!!

Is it possible that Doran has the crown and sent it with one of his loyal people who go with Arienne in her sample chapters?

Awesome 👏🏽

15:50 for a good picture of why, watch the beginning of “Starchaser: the Legend of Orin”

im wondering if all 3 of these blackfyre treasures are bs? the eggs seem to be elissa farman's, the third treasure is no where in sight, and as for the sword blackfyre - idk, would it work if Aegon got ahold of Widow's Wail (it is targaryen colors, after all), and pretended that it was Blackfyre? Or make it ambiguous whether its the real Blackfyre, or Widow's Wail, or a complete fake?

@set2877

Жыл бұрын

My belief is that FAegon will mirror Aegon II. He will have the crown of the conqueror from Dorne, the sword of the conqueror from The Golden Company, and I think he will take Kings Landing and be crowned there. The setup and foreshadowing is all there for it, and I think this will lead to a second Dance of the Dragons between Dany and FAegon. Maybe that’s what George wants me to think, and he’s gonna have FAegon come out as a blackfyre or not accomplish anything, but I personally think he’ll be crowned and die tragically versus Dany. If he ever writes the books lol

@ZoomReverseFlash

Жыл бұрын

@@set2877 "The Second Dance of the Dragons" means the second case of battles between dragon riders, not another Targaryen civil war (those already happened without dragons). So, the dance will be between Dany and whoever gets a dragon, it could be Aegon, it could be Quentin, Victarion, Tyrion, Jon, it could be the Others for all I care.

Preston might as well have just made this a solo video.

Stannis will win the battle but lose the war

its quite likely that the Targs were not the only ones that forged a bond with some sort of Lovecraftian entity. Thats what the Others potentially represent. The Targs found out they were not the only ones manipulating magic this way and thus did not have a monopoly on controlling whatever cost the blood pact came with. Valyrians controlled an extensive empire but like the Romans drew their power source from a variety of sources. Asshai seems to be a source of magical experimentation as does whatever has happened/is happening North of the Wall or as a result of the Wall. The way I look at it is this: The Nights Watch are the perfect candidates to be sacrificed to the Others because they take a vow and were criminals previously therefore they are likely to break that vow by have sex. And the products of their criminal sexual acts--similar to Craster--have some sort of magical worth. This type of taboo creation is precisely what the Valyrians were up to by mating beasts with humans. And its also probably what the Shadowbinders and Asshai taught the Valyrians. In all three circumstances elemental forces destroy the surrounding. Asshai is inhabitable, Valyria is inhabitable and every settlement North of the Wall is becoming that way. Three cataclysms. Three pacts. Three experiments. Three manipulations. Devastating consequences.....

@tonysled6796

Жыл бұрын

having*

@tonysled6796

Жыл бұрын

surroundings*

Why isn't this on Apple Podcast?

@OfficialRedTeamReview

Жыл бұрын

It will be but it'll always been on our channels first.

Lol imagine Jon coming back to life than being killed again by Cersei’s men

What if Stannis burns shireen not to beat the Boltons but to try to beat the others and that’s how his story ends. Her burning is a failure

Love hearin Preston speak truth ❤

Preston should check out Company of the Cat, she has some pretty good theories.

New video hype

When's the series on the Cersei unconscious master plan?👀

Rereading ADOD and Selyse and Shireen are already on their way to the Night Fort 👀

What if Darkstar brings the crown to Aegon after he steals Dawn?

Preston was on a roll, wish this could go longer. Carmine seemed to zone out and wanted to end the podcast for the last 20 mins.

@OfficialRedTeamReview

Жыл бұрын

Um what? The podcast was over dude, clearly. This is part 2 and there was literally nothing left to cover.

C'mon, guys! Why must be Stannis the one to burn Shireen??? Who said that? Selyse will burn Shireen. She's the religious zealot. She's with Shireen and Melisandre right now. She will believe her Azor Ahai is dead. She will want him to be ressurrected. And she will ressurrect Azor Ahai indeed, bu the way. edit If we believe Stannis wrote the pink letter, then the heartbreaking part of all of this is: he was the one who made Selyse think he was dead, and he lost her daughter, his true love, because of that.

@OfficialRedTeamReview

Жыл бұрын

I think Dave & Dan said that though I may be mistaken on if Stannis does it

The Westermen and the Ironborn are also both portrayed as Da Bad Guyz for the most part, so the alliance feels thematically appropriate.

@jonttopia

Жыл бұрын

Dem Iron 'Umies aint no proper bad guyz, we's gon show 'em how to do a real krumpin'! WAAAGH! Sorry, they way you wrote "guys" with a z just awakened something in me

"Why is Salvador Saan going on for so long about this 'random prophecy', totally random!" Bro, he's talking about the Azor A'hai prophecy because people are calling Stammis Azor A'hai. Could not be more relevant or any less random, it's actually the main topic that matters: the Red Priestess'influence on Standish

I tolerate Preston's dislike of magic in ASOIAF, but man, you gotta be creative when thinking about magic, the door probably only worked in the spell used to build it if it was built that way. I know, headcannon, but if you search real life historical ancient spells, this kind of highly specific requirement for working pops out many times.

@aceambling7685

4 ай бұрын

Copy-pasted from my comment: "Why would they construct it in the shape of a giant talking face" Why did the Pheonicians burn virgin girls alive inside a giant Bronze Bull? Why did the Egyptians build the Sphinx? Why did the Aztecs cover their pyramids in leering feathered serpents? Why, do you Preston, assume that a technologically advanced civilization would be atheist?

@aceambling7685

4 ай бұрын

Preston has used the idiom "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" to explain how ASOIAF is actually ScFi, but he doesnt seem to have actually internalized this concept.

They were obviously discussing the famous Queen Dragonanne Sword

@Fromage10x

Жыл бұрын

First and unsurprisingly last of her name

Talking about legitimacy. If people believe it is the legitimate crown it doesn’t matter if it really is. Same thing can be said about the sword.