That last scene with T'Challa and Erik is still one of the best ever devised for the MCU. The dialogue, the visuals, the music, seriously gets to me. I also really like how much Erik leaves an impression on T'Challa, even prompting him to change things up (albeit in an exponentially less violent and more civil fashion) in regards to Wakanda and how it interacts with the world.

@latonyajefferson9699

5 жыл бұрын

I read an article not too long ago where K.F. said that a lot of the rewrites that we're done for Black Panther were to bring the beginning and middle parts of the movie closer to that ending between Erik and T'Challa. If I remember correctly, that section is one of the few parts that was completely untouched from the original script.

Vincent D'Onofrio's Wilson Fisk from Daredevil is also a great New Order villain, especially in regards to his backstory.

@sahilmasrur8729

5 жыл бұрын

Another villain from Superhero Show who should be recognized as same - Prometheus from Arrow 5

@leannebrown02

5 жыл бұрын

Kilgrave!

@sebastienvondoom8615

4 жыл бұрын

@@leannebrown02 Kilgrave isn't new order.

This was excellent. It's all these deeper layers people tend to overlook when the call the movie 'overrated'.

@chagew8966

5 жыл бұрын

Take a look at green lantern. It's an underrated movie.

@jimslav6973

5 жыл бұрын

Mmm. Green Lantern failed because Hal Jordan is, and always will be, the most boring Green Lantern.

@chagew8966

5 жыл бұрын

I agree it failed. That wierd distortion of that one guy was an epic fail. But there are themes and contrast of characters in green lantern. That, I can appreciate. There are deeper layers to even crap movies. Like the last jedi.

@thebkj

5 жыл бұрын

@@chagew8966 agreed

12:52 ... by betraying the archetypal villain played by Andy Serkis.... Me: Ahhhh!!!!! OMG!!! I never even noticed that before!!!! So freaking weird! I hope very eagerly for a future video on Ben Solo!!!

@braynz2378

5 жыл бұрын

Bro both movies made 1.3 billion

@tuamigajordana

5 жыл бұрын

@@braynz2378 Im a sister

@braynz2378

5 жыл бұрын

@@tuamigajordana 😂 😂 😂 my bad. It's how I usually communicate when I'm in complete awe.

Respect a man who puts respect on Black Panther

@Curseco

4 жыл бұрын

But it's not a good movie

@spiderneil

4 жыл бұрын

@@Curseco Haven't you got better things to do with your time than watching and commenting on a video made about a movie you clearly don't like?

"while we don't have vibranium we have the next best thing... squarespace..." *pause for laughter*

Burr from Hamilton is another perfect example of this kind of villain. Re-listening to that show but choosing to switch your perspective and empathize entirely with Burr rather than Hamilton is equally as compelling and just as devastating when you get to their final showdown. The best thing about the 'New Order' villain (in my opinion) is that because stories with them require both the protagonist and the antagonist to undergo change, the moral that we (the audience) take away from the story is a synthesis of what both of those characters believe. It isn't as black and white as "good vs. evil" (superman wins *because* he's good, green goblin loses *because* he's evil) instead both characters are wrong in their own way. What's "right" is actually somewhere in the grey between the two character's ideals. And that can make for an incredibly compelling story that is much more true to the complex world of real life.

The story builds to the protagonist making a decision. That decision is the climax. Because tchalla had the decision to make, he is the protagonist. Killmonger had the same plan from beginning to end. Had killmonger had a change of mind, maybe it would be a dual protagonist.

Such a breath of fresh air to see a video essay which (partially) focusses on the Last Jedi, but doesn't tear it apart.

@Casey-dy2oo

5 жыл бұрын

Rik vA yep I really enjoyed that movie and I liked what Rian did with Kylo much more than TFA

@Casey-dy2oo

5 жыл бұрын

@KaMau Mau Nah cause it's actually good and people had stupid expectations. who gives a fuck who Snoke is and Rey SHOULDN’T have some grand lineage.

@Birthday888

5 жыл бұрын

@@Casey-dy2oo Well, people were expecting a grand reveal about Snoke, and they were disappointed when the big bad hyped up in the movie's prequel was abruptly killed. A lot of people were making theories as to why Rey was so talented in the force. And while they were disappointed to be proven wrong, a lot of the criticisms for that reveal is that the film treats it like some grand revelation or turning point in the film when Rey hadn't shown a hint of wanting to know if her parents were someone special up til that point in the movie. It also cemented that Rey has no character arc. She ends the film in the exact same spot as she started in; not trusting Kylo Ren. Also, can we talk about how Rey decides that Kylo Ren is redeemable after he stabs her surrogate father figure when he was at his most vulnerable? Didn't she care about Han Solo? Apparently not. Apparently Luke, the person who successful convinced the Emperor's right hand man to pull a Heel-Face turn after a lifetime of wrongdoings, now decides that he should kill a young child who also happens to be his nephew because.... Dreams. Whether Kylo Ren is a good character is another debate, but I will concede the fact that he's one of the more complex characters of the new trilogy. Still, there is so much wrong that out weighs the right in the movie, it's not even funny. Not saying you can't enjoy it, but please don't try to present your opinion as fact. Enjoyable does not equate to good.

@Casey-dy2oo

5 жыл бұрын

H. J. First of all, I do not think The Force Awakens or The Last Jedi are as good of movies as the originals. What I do think is TLJ is leagues better than new hope rehash TFA. Rey’s character arc could have been worked on but it was better than the force awakens. In TLJ she actually had to deal with her hero not being what she thought and starting to trust the villain. While she is very powerful in the force it was very good writing to keep her a nobody. Force sensitives can develop anywhere in the galaxy. It makes for bad lore and unoriginal writing having only the powerful being related. What is even better are the character arcs of Kylo and Luke in the movie. Kylo started being BEATEN by Rey in the first movie of a trilogy. (Huge mistake on JJ’s part.) Rian Johnson was able to fix this by having this mediocre villain kill Snoke. Not to mention the lead up of Rey and Kylo becoming more trusting. This made the throne room scene so epic and impactful on the characters as they realized their paths diverged there. One thing people really hated Luke being sad and feeling like a failure at the beginning of the movie. It made sense in the context of the story though AND in Star Wars characters in general. Yes this is one of the strongest Jedi who through his lightsaber down to prove to the emperor he would never join the dark side. (Love that scene by the way). Though that is true, even the greatest Jedi like Yoda and Obi-wan went into hiding due to their failures. What I love about TLJ is that Rey helps him see the point again. While Rey should have had more training, especially to be as powerful as she was in TFA, this was a great way to use the training with Luke. In reality the training was her helping Luke see the reason to be a Jedi and fight do the good of people again. In the end he changes his mind. Luke faces the first order and tricks Kylo Ren with his own rage. “See ya around kid”

@Casey-dy2oo

5 жыл бұрын

H. J. All in all TLJ is a much better movie than the force awakens and hopefully that goes without saying, the prequels. Some of the other problems like the lightspeed through a force field were ALSO caused by TFA. For some reason JJ decided to make force fields have refresh rates. This way anyone going lightspeed (like Han) can go through 🙄.

Seems like the New Order Villain is the Inverse of the Anti-Hero- rather than glorifying revenge and using their powers to right the wrongs they experienced no matter the personal cost, they show how destructive to the self and world these elements can be

@FilmsStuff

5 жыл бұрын

I actually really like this explanation, I never thought of it that way. There's a great quote from Game of Thrones Season 6, and I'm paraphrasing: 'Violence is a disease, you don't cure it by spreading it'. Characters like Ben and Erik are sort of rage infected zombies.

I think some people take mcu themes too lightly as they are in perception of joke and lighter tone. The apartment ancestoral scene hit me hard and I don't know what is deeper if this is not. BP maybe overhyped or not but that single scene tops both mcu and dceu

@rrajeshkumar670

5 жыл бұрын

agreed

@antona.8659

3 жыл бұрын

No, we don't. We just don't buy into it. Heck, those few of us who have brain cells didn't buy into the self-indulgent themes about lies and truths from the Chernobyl miniseries which purposely lied about many characters and events it depicts. And that one actually has something to offer on a deeper level, unlike the MCU.

@rohanalias9053

3 жыл бұрын

@@antona.8659 this so called "we" is just you.i don't see anyone else here.also nice pfp ehh. P.s. Film gob

I'm glad to see more depth in the discourse around this film. I recently did a piece on Captain Marvel, and how it missed an opportunity to tell a very "female" story in the way Black Panther tells a very "black" story. This video isn't necessarily about Black Panther's blackness, but you are KILLING it re: the layers and complexity of Erik. I love this new era of villians. I'd argue Thanos fits the bill as well. Well done!

"We don't have Vibranium, but we have the next best thing: *Squarespace.*" This made me laugh out loud and like the video, besides the wonderful analysis!

bUt jOnaThAN wHAT abOuT thE bAd CGI

The Killmonger ancestral plane was awesome. Great video. People like to chide others who appreciate and love BP; people are also stupid...

Films&Stuff burning it all down with his quality videos.

This video is phenomenal! Thank you so much for putting this together! Really glad someone shared this with me, and can't wait to see more of your videos.

This is definitely my favorite Marvel film, and I agree that Killmonger is a strong reason why. Thank you for your amazing analysis once again.

@Jay-jb2vr

5 жыл бұрын

Kilmonger was the first MCU villian that made you go *oh shit! He's not playing around!*

That thumbnail is fire🔥

The "New Order Villain" archetype also fits Tomura Shigaraki from My Hero Academia perfectly. -Failed by the system -Related by blood to a respected hero -Lashes out with rage to destroy the system that created him -Manchild

I've had conversations with my brother about this film. And this video, shows that I'm not crazy. Great job, good work.

"The key element to the new order villian is that deep down; they are all of us. They're our deepest fears and insecurities manifested into monsters." Beautifully said.😮😔🙏

This. Was. Excellent. Love killmonger. Also: gonna need that Ben Solo video asap.

It's kinda crazy to think of all the ways one can interpret a film. What you focus on, how you compartmentalize the information, and what you construct with it.

I loved your video on Thor Ragnorok, and am excited to watch this one 👏 P.S. I would be interested on your thoughts concerning Captain Marvel

@firefighter4532

5 жыл бұрын

Snehil Shrey Mmmmm

I really disagree with your thesis that these two guys are the same. Killmonger is a guy who had nothing his whole life, he lost his family, grew up poor in Oakland, watched people that look like him suffer through his entire life. Kylo Ren is guy on the other hand is a guy, is a privileged brat who's out there trying to save the world from who exactly. I think Both are great villains but Kylo Ren feels like he is a savior to a problem that doesn't exist while Killmonger is becoming everything he hates.

@hiimchrisj

5 жыл бұрын

Agreed but being of the same archetype doesn't mean your backstory and specific motivations need to coincide.

Great analysis! Very insightful and the editing is incredible. Looking forward to your Ben Solo video too!

Spectacular video, man!

Fantastic video. Keep up the great work

All your videos are beautifully made. Great work! 🙌

I love your videos and this has to be my newest favorite! Keep up the good work man!

Imagine if the trailers just showed andy serkis. And then in the actuall movie we learn for the first time killmonger is the main villain

Welp, I found another gem of channel on youtube. I'm loving it.

WELL. DONE.

Inventive thesis on the Black Panther role as protagonist, plus several sharp observations on it's visual language.

side note, the music that plays during Erik's dream always makes me cry, it's just so beautiful and sad to me

Squarespace is our Vibranium...That was smart...

Impressive video. You are so incredibly skilled, both as a narrator, as well as an editor. I'm almost done with my Marvel rewatch and I really haven't been looking forward to watching BP again, as I thought it was incredibly bland and boring when I watched it in the theatre, some 13 months ago. Your video made me excited to try and watch it from a new perspective. Amazing job as always. Keep up the great work!

well done, i never noticed the sacred plane outside the windows, or the striking similarities between these two movies

That was beautiful

Incredible video

Great video

Didn’t like TLJ and thought BP was overly hyped but damn, you’ve made some compelling arguments. Great video

Hang on; In that final conversion with Erik that you'll never forget? Killmonger said "Bury me in the oceans, with my ancestors that jumped from the ships" referring to the African slave trade. He was from a secret African country that was never enslaved, and ultimately America. His ancestors were royalty in the most advanced country in the world...

Wow... such an amazing video.

If you haven't noticed both King T'chaka's and Eric Killmonger's Black Panther costume both have gold accents. King T'chaka killed someone close to him who subverted his authority, and Eric Killmonger will kill anyone to gain power and enforce total authority. King T'challa saw the his father's pride created Killmonger's resentment and violent nature which was a catalyst for T'challa growth.

Please please increase your upload frequency and put out more videos like this your channel is primed to grow with this content. Drop some infinity war/endgame stuff this month and you’re golden

Dude, you know your stuff... I like you.

Your videos are cool, please post more

Only problem is that ben doesn't think he is a hero. He actively wants to be like darth vader not to stop slavery or do good like anakin, but to rule the galaxy.

I have to say this is an excellent, excellent video. Kudos to you sir. You give a great synopsis and break down along with New Perspectives on one of my favorite movies in Black Panther. The parallels that you cited between Star Wars The Last Jedi and black panther are eye-opening. And it is funny that Andy Serkis killed off in each movie...didn't even realize that... LOL anyways good stuff sir...

Thank you Squarespace 😂

you provided good commentary for this idea, but the title is black panther -- not black panther "and star wars," which is misleading

Personal opinion. I do not think killmonger changes during the dream. I think when he turn back to an adult it is because he remembers his rage. Eric remembers kilmonger

Hey man, I love your vids and I was hoping you could make a video on how you make these videos. I would like to see how you create and get ideas for videos, as well as the technical stuff, like how you edit and how you make your thumbnails, and if you think that doesn't with your channel, maybe consider making a second channel where you explain how you create videos, thanks.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot. Like Skywalker wants to murder his nephew for no reason. Gotcha! Bet you didn't think the on guy known best for NOT killing his evil relatives would try to kill his relatives! WHAT A TWIST!

hey what happened to your spiderman 2 video? i wanted to revisit it for research bc im writing my own superhero movie. just curious if theres a chance we can ever see it back up on youtube?

@FilmsStuff

5 жыл бұрын

Sadly it was blocked in U.S. and Canada cause of copyright :(, you may be able to use a wayback machine to view it though.

You use the title of black panther where you should be saying king, but aside from one gripe this video is brilliant

It's a felony that you've never talked about Spiderman Into The Spider-Verse

When l see video like this it made me like the movie more and more I hope that the shazam vs black adam is presented just like you discribe the video,it a battle for the champions of earth/magic

6:42 Me to

okay but where’s the long video about Kyle Ren HUH

I'm sorry but I don't think Kylo can be comparable to Kilmonger at all... Kilmonger's father was trying to help the outside world with Waconda tech as he saw the plight of his brothers outside, and was killed as a betrayer which left Kilmonger orphaned from the land of his fathers. Kylo... was corrupted by Snoke and fell in love with Vader... and in an instant when he believed his teacher might kill him, he decided to kill a bunch of innocent kids that he grew up around, join an evil empire that offered nothing to anyone and then killed his dad... he doesn't have a compelling reason to do any of that other than "the dark side corrupted me and my parents weren't around enough boo hoo" -_-

@sunnybear178

9 ай бұрын

Killmonger’s father wasn’t killed because he betrayed them, he was killed because he attempted to kill his own subject in front of the king. T’Chaka had no intentions of killing his brother but as a king he protected his subjects over his own blood

I honestly think that the villain backstory might be one of the only good things about the black panther film. I truly enjoyed the scene where T'Challa confronts his father, as everyone expected a peaceful reunion to instead argue with him that its all a consequence of what they created. But for the most part, I think the film could've focused on new ways of portraying this rivalry instead of mediocre fight scenes and crappy utopic dialogue around the "let's share our knowledge with the world" deal. For me, this film was pretty mediocre. But again, thanks for sharing your thoughts on the villain backstory, truly interesting.

the one fault with new order villains that i can find is that to effectively make them themselves, they have to lack any self awareness, they’re defined by how intensely themselves they are, and any doubt or awareness they have makes them less so, makes for a less round character

Jason Lee in The Incredibles falls into this category, right?

Kylo Ren/Ben Solo was the only part of the Last Jedi that I liked from start to finish.

I hat the last Jedi like a lot, but I do have to admit that Kylo was a great villain in that movie.

An excellent video with maybe the worst ad transition I've ever seen

Ben solo should have been the sole protagonist of the ST

2:52 Coincidence? I think not!

Damn it’s disrespectful to compare that other guy to Killmonger

Wakanda Forever

The film is really good and I like this take with the characters. I still don't think it was oscar worthy, mainly because of the CGI and fight scenes.

i feel like this dude would like the character arch of pain in naruto

Betraying Andy Serkis is tight...

Kylo's a First Order Villain, not a new order villain :P

Vibranium < Squarespace

@FilmsStuff

5 жыл бұрын

Damn right.

That also aply a bit to Darth Vader.

The whole jumping from ships line was too much by that point... and I'm black

@jonathan2282

4 жыл бұрын

But his ancestors weren't slaves. They were in the richest and most advanced civilization in the world. Still an amazing scene though.

Sooo... Sasuke is a new order villain? Hmm

@blacksquirdward3301

5 жыл бұрын

Ya basically

I just watched captain marvel......how did marvel go from black panther to....that?

Squarespace.

The most annoying part of these villains were that they felt like owergrown teenagers. sure some adults might be that edgy but it just felt off to me. then there was Thanos who didn't hate but was/is just delusional but he too thinks he is the good guy and doing the right thing.

@sunnybear178

9 ай бұрын

I know this is 4 years old but Killmonger’s behavior is actually enhanced by the trauma he gained from the loss of his father and the things he had to witness growing up. It was something I saw when he broke from his confident tone and sounded broken and hurt. Even after being defeated he let that tone truly show.

Pretty sure that Thanos is just a better example of a complex and compelling villain that believes he is doing right.

WHY EVEN PUT BLACK PANTHER AND THE LAST JEDI IN THE SAME SENTENCE IS BEYOND ME🤷🏽‍♂️🤦🏽‍♂️I KNOW FOR THE "NEW ORDER VILLAIN" THEORY 🙄

most disney era star wars villians are secret idiots, episode 7 via 8, rogue one, and even the retcon Solo.

Last Jedi had some very cool ideas. But as both a story and a film it is an utter failure. Which is a shame, cause I liked an awful lot of the ideas in there.

Don't compare Ben Solo to Killmonger. Ben failed to meet expectation. Killmonger exceeded his and was the only thing that made Black Panther watchable. PS. Fuck T'Challa

So the real villans are the a**holes who leave them as torn young men after spreading their violence into their lives at a young age creating more violence in a circle of never ending pain after that.

Michael Bay Jordan ;)

Villiens are not the main focus of the mcu

You have been so sharp and insightful in past videos but you sure missed the mark on the Black Panther. Are you attempting to virtue signal? The movie was plagued by plot holes, lies, and fallacious reasoning by the villain and the king.

This is good efap material

Ben is a decent character but I cannot say many good things about Force Awakens or Last Jedi, which disappoints me.

@ManOfStamp38

5 жыл бұрын

His motivation seems to change on a dime. One minute he's a Darth Vader fanboy trying to be like his Grandfather, the next he wants to turn Rey to the dark side, then he wants an alliance with her (to what end I don't know), and then he's back to discount Vader but not intimidating in the slightest because he got his ass kicked by a person who'd never held a lightsaber.

@paristhompson7522

5 жыл бұрын

I can! Both episode 7 and 8 were great

They are Black Panther... "Nice I feel you" ...and The Last Jedi... "Nope"

@MakiPcr

5 жыл бұрын

Right now my problem is that the media decided to ignore the issues with The Last Jedi (like how all the characters of color are loosers and none of the female characters have her own story). The point of Kylo Ren is correct, the problem is that we got a complex interesting villain at the expense of the heroes (the fact that the villain is a white dude and the heroes are men of color and women also makes it a little bit uncomfortable)

@LoganLS0

5 жыл бұрын

@@MakiPcr Rey completely disappears from the 3rd act as soon as she becomes an interesting character, Finn does a beat for beat retread of his arc in the last movie, Poe's story makes no sense and has no payoff. Kylo and Luke had good stories but everything else about the movie is bad.

I loved Last Jedi. Black Panther was okay. It would've done better with a polishing of the script and better direction for line delivery, especially for Jordan. But otherwise, great video, my conclusions as well.

Does it count as "reinventing" if everything you "reinvented" had been done before and better? Because everything claimed to be new in The Last Jedi had been done better before, usually by Dave Filoni 0:54 oh yeah, TLJ has a compelling villain; at the expense of every protagonist. But I guess it's fine, who needs a well-rounded compelling female hero or hero of color when you have a great white neo-nazi villain? I mean, it's not like you came to a action adventure movie for the good guys or anything

@tofu_golem

5 жыл бұрын

Ah, so you're butthurt because the movie criticized neo-Nazis? Got it.

@MakiPcr

5 жыл бұрын

@@tofu_golem No I'm butthurt because the neo-Nazi is the most sympathetic well rounded character, while the heroes of color and white female heroes get shafted. I mean did you notice that Rey's story is more about Luke and Kylo than herself? Or that the heroes of color just happen to serve no purpose to the plot? Or that the most iconic female character in Star Wars spends the whole movie in a coma? Or that the white male character who murdered and entire village of innocent people as well as committed the Star Wars equivalent to a mass shooting just happens to be the most developed character? Basically I'm mad that the movie didn't criticize neo-Nazis _enough_

Agreed. I've been watching Star Wars since the 70's and Kylo Ren is, undoubtedly, the best villain the franchise has ever had. By far.

Can't say I agree. Kylo Was pretty good yeah, but Killmonger was just boring. Dude had no personality.

@rrajeshkumar670

5 жыл бұрын

sure.............

@blacksquirdward3301

5 жыл бұрын

I hope u watched the same movie like everybody else nigga