00:24 - "Well, 'Bach-cle' up"! 🤣

This piece was my introduction to Bach, some thirty years ago. And I still find it endlessly fascinating, because I enjoy imagining the mental and emotional state of composer when listening to his music. Your analysis in this regard is immeasurably helpful. BTW, I have just today received my copy of Bach WTC Clavier 1. Thank you so much!

@JSB2500

3 ай бұрын

> I enjoy imagining the mental and emotional state of the composer. Me too. Getting a first person understanding of the composer. Putting ourselves in their position (and as them, not as us). And I try to do this when learning and performing their music e.g. my Bach 542 and 548ii performances. How did Bach feel as he wrote this and as he performed this? And then take on that feeling. I try to include things like the inevitable competition between him and other musicians and composers, the feeling of knowing that his music was good even if it wasn't well appreciated and hence that wasn't confirmed at the time, conflicts with his church and with listeners, and whether he truly liked Buxtehude's music or whether actually he felt it missed something hugely important and urgently wanted to put that right e.g. with 582. I think doing this is really important, yet so often it's not what's done at all, especially with organ music.

I have so often thought Bach didn’t evoke the range of emotions that the Romantic composers did, but this floors me. He certainly did. Thanks so much.

@MrYuryZ

11 ай бұрын

Agreed. I've never understood why people think that Baroque in general and especially Bach's music considered by many less emotional if at all than Romantic. Have they ever listened Mass in B minor, st. Matthew Passion, Church Cantatas, motets and any other vocal works by Bach? Each piece by J.S. Bach and other Baroque composers such as Handel, Vivaldi, Buxtehude, Corelli, Albioni and many others is full of many different emotions.

@pavaomrazek

11 ай бұрын

@@MrYuryZDon't worry. Those people just don't know how to listen to music

@np7133

10 ай бұрын

Romantic music speaks to the heart, Bach’s music speaks to the brain, that is what my music teacher told me

@pavaomrazek

10 ай бұрын

@@np7133 How can Bach's music speak to the brain when the BASE of all baroque music is affect (a strong emotion). Without this affect there's no baroque music. Also, Bach is full of emotions. It does speak to the brain, but also to the heart

@np7133

10 ай бұрын

@@pavaomrazek I agree with you, but she told it to draw our attention on the fact that Bach’s music must be well studied, to understand each part as Bach intended it, to be able to feel all the emotions !

Off topic but I want to thank you for causing me to look again at 4-hand versions of classical symphonies. I'll never conduct an orchestra (nor do I want to) but engaging with that repertoire directly has refreshed me.

I stumbled on your channel today and I'm so pleasantly surprised that you talk about music not only in terms of pure theory, but also in terms of feelings and heart. Thank you!

OMG what a amazing video! I'll never heard this piece the same way again

I was in grade 9 science class watching a video about sub-atomic particles and this piece came on in the background. I had never realised until then that there was "classical" music written for the organ. I went out and bought a CD with this piece on it. It was my introduction to a vast organ repertoire. Not only did I discover Bach, but I was introduced to Krebs, Burhns, Hanff, and others on this CD. This kindled a love for the music and the instrument. The authorship question is interesting, but, irrespective of who composed it or how it was originally conceived (as an organ piece or a violin piece), it's an awesome work. Thanks for posting this fascinating insight into the piece.

Having heard the music in countless theatrical movies (8 plus that I can think of off hand)...I came across an anonymous Piano transcription in a cheap collections of J S Bachs "In there original form (19th century editions) which I wrote on my copy "He most be joking." Not have access to an organ, I played the work piano, corrected the M trill into a mordant...etc. In 1974 I heard the same transcription when I surveyed a Piano Master Class at the Summer session of the Music Academdy of the West (same trill, J S Bach used D'Angelber's ornament chart, as did his teacher Georg Boehm, who later was the Northern Agent for Clavier Ubung Partita 2 and Partita 3.) In 1972 a Baroque Anthology published with Denis Agay as editor was an introduction to some aspects of 18th century performance practice, and also excellent sight reading material. In the colloection was an manulerien organ fantasia by J. Pachelbel in D minor. About 1 minute 44 seconds into the piece in an episode in F major, to my astonishment there was the first half of the Fugue subject to BWV 565 five measures from the final measure. s9.imslp.org/files/imglnks/usimg/0/01/IMSLP275707-PMLP446740-FantasiaId-Moll.pdf I had played every composer that had any relationship to J S Bach at the time and available in the pre-internet days, libraries didn't have much, you had to purchase, similar to gold, were you could find it. It was that or an early 1900's Anthology (piano edited) by Schirmer. In time I would discover that J S Bach's older brother was a student of Pachelbel, much later that Bach's father was good friends, Bach's older sister's Godfather was Pachelbel who attended his former's student wedding, and in all likelihood met the young future organist. Pachelbel purchased a home from J S Bach's cousin's window, and went to greener pastures elsewhere in due course. C P E wrote of his late father that his most inspired (and greatest) compositions began as a quote from a musician he admired which the C minor Passacaglia is one on the grand scale and the F major invention (from a Concerto in G minor by Vivaldi) was another, interesting that the D minor Fugue was in a major to a minor key the opposite of the the Invention which started out as a Prelude in W F Bach's notebooklet. The controversy of Bach's authorship is so puerile, the ravings of academics attempting to get noticed, especially in the tricentennial celbration of J S Bach's birth. Ringck was the student of both J P Kellner and of Kirnberger (a student of J S Bach) who also lays claim to the oldest copy of one of J S Bach's earlier Cantata. Kellner is source for the Prelude and Fugue in A minor which became the Triple Concerto, and earlier versions of the Solo Violin and Cello Sonatas which have variants not found in the later A M Bach copies, which an 'academic" not using an 18th century dictionary for French mistranslated the word for copy into composed. Felix Mendelssohn was responsible for the work's publication in 1840. His Great Aunt Sarah Levy was a student of W F Bach, and the family including Felix's father were collectors of J S Bach's manuscripts, as was the head of the Sing Academy in Leipzig and Fanny's and Felix's first piano teacher. No one had any qualms about the authorship. As to those who claimed it "wasn't by Bach" it took four copy's from the 18th century to confirm the Gigue Fugue as J S Bach's composition when two didn't suffice and JSB name was stricken from the work as spurious. My opinion, for what it's worth, the student Ringck (who according to handwriting experts may have been as young as 12 when he copied the work in 1730) shows all of the traits of mid 18th century scores, individual notes with stems for chords, the one less b (like the Dorian Toccata), the incorrect time value (a performance practice for improvisation, also found in all 18th century manuscripts of the C minor prelude from the Well Tempered Clavier Pt 1, only Kirnberger's copy which dates from the 1770's was correct to have the correct math), with the from the chord progressions to the dissounances, and other aspects peculiar to J S Bach's composition, what better explanation than authenticity. Other claims, it was a piece for violin are sophist nonesence. If the work was by a young 1730 to 1740 Ringck wouldn't he have claimed authorship. On the flip side J S Bach's fame as the "Prince of Organists" or the greatest organist in German Speaking lands, this work would have been well known to all and sundry admirers of great music. It still is. When I worked as a medical researcher and traveled to Vienna for a client who had an incurable disease, we went to a concert in St. Stephen's were Mozart had been Organist in 2004. The first work which open the program was BWV 565. It was compensation as the Mozart House was closed for renovation. E Power Biggs recorded the Toccata on 4 different organs and released an LP (it's on KZread). When he next recorded the work, he wrote, "Another 565?" on the liner notes. I would say their can never be enough recordings or a work which was recorded by Virgil Fox / Heavy Organ* - Bach Live At Fillmore East (his performances of J S Bach's organ's work are my least favorite, you can't hear Bach for the Fox as anachronistic as you can be, sacrilege), and in the context of a church, with an organ which J S Bach would immediately recognize and understand. Suffice to say, as as many (and I mean countless) times I've heard the piece, Wim Winters made the work new again. And I would say, his choice of registration (stops chosen) I do with no shame envy and covet his great fortune to play. I've only played a tracker organ once, a revelation, all the other pipe organs were electric pneumatic. The difference between a sluggish Steinway and a nimble clavichord. (Playing hookey from work, this video, and the contention J S Bach didn't write this work in his youth, prompted the above).

I have played this piece since I was a teenager more than 50 years ago. It’s the backdrop of my life with Baroque music and organ playing. Thanks, Wyn, for the analysis and possible human emotional responses we may have listening to the Toccata.

Wow, this video is very impressing, i want more of this! It would be fine, if you could also make a video from the fugue. Greetings from Austria

Thank you for the explanation. I’ve never thought the piece could have such a meaning. It sounded just awesome to me and I was quite happy as soon I could play the first bars on a real pipe organ.

If you wait.................. long enough...... between notes........ the music................. fall apart..... That's way...... NO ONE................. plays like that................ And that.... I am grateful for.

THANK YOU! Finally, some one who can play Toccata with Soul! ❤ This piece needs deep emotion and vision to be experienced wholy. Judgement and Doom. Beautiful!

Fantastic! I was waiting for this video. can't wait for the fuga part...

Thank you for this magnificent exploration!

Thank you a lot for this interpretation, the BWV 565 I started to learn to play about a month ago, you surely extended my thoughts on this extraordinary piece. All the best

A really interesting, revealing and delighting analysis. Thank you!

Fantastic!

Perfect! Perfect! Perfect! It is really beyond... This amazing upload reaches the highest pick of musical-explanation. I'm sharing.

There are two pieces of organ music that I am bone-weary of because the initial thrill and novelty has long since worn thin; BWV 565 and Widor's Toccata. From 1962 I just about wore out my copy of Richard Keys Biggs playing 565 (I was 15 years old). Dutch music lover to Piet Kee in the 80s "I'm not coming to your recital if you play 565!" "I don't intend to but it's something the recording companies often ask for when compiling a disc." At the other end of the spectrum is Bach's great Passacaglia which is a work that never to me grows wearisome. Stokowski had the right of that work. So, forgive me when I hit the Go Back tab whenever I hear the opening bars of 565; it's a magnificent piece of music, ingrained in my memory and does not need the Refresh function.

Muchas gracias por tus vídeos y por los subtítulos en español. Nos encanta.

amazing

I love these videos so much ❤

Wim dit is heerlijk - ik ben sinds dit jaar een student van Jeroen Folon en samen met jou en hem leer ik elke dag (nog) meer genieten van muziek en zijn heerlijke complexiteit.

Dear Wim, just today I received my copy of your Bach's Wtc CD, with your dedication. And I already applied for the new Bach's project, both for LP and CD. I hope that it will succeed. This video is really wonderful and describes in a so poetic way what the true mistery of music is. Really appreciate your way to explain the meaning of these superb pieces of art that go beyond space and time. Thank you for your work and please go on. Claudio. Italy.

I can't believe that JS Bach wrote this. It is so unlike all of his other organ works.

@Dwadle

11 ай бұрын

I totally agree. This has nothing to do with the other toccatas and fugas Bach has composed.

@eugenenakamura

11 ай бұрын

it's actually quite disputed in musicological circles whether this is truly a composition by JS Bach.

@Renshen1957

11 ай бұрын

@@eugenenakamura No question as to J S Bach’s authorship. The first half of the Fugue subject is found in a D minor Fantasia for organ by Bach’s older brother’s teacher and older sister’s Godfather, and best friend of Bach’s father, Johann Pachelbel. C P E Bach in his obituary said of his father wrote inspired works with themes of other composers, such as the Passacaglia, or even the motive for the F major invention (from a Vivaldi concerto in G minor). Johannes Ringck is the source. JR studied with J P Kellner source of a great deal of JSB early manuscripts and also a teacher of J S Bach student and manuscript source J P Kirnberger. The claim of errors in note values, you can find examples in JSB’s autograph and the many copies but one (1770’s) of the C minor prelude of WTC part 1 was a stylistic form of writing, to improvise the performance of the notes. The work lacks the Bb in the Key signature, a common practice in the 18th century for minor key, the upper stave is in the Soprano C clef, the chords are written in individual notes for each tone. It took 4 manuscripts copies to finally confirm written by JSB for the Gigue Fugue. The claim that JSB didn’t write the work is another publish or perish BS academics pull, if I recall this all started around the Tricentennial celebration of JSB’s birth. Some goes as far to write it was an arrangement of a violin piece.

@Renshen1957

11 ай бұрын

@@chlorinda4479 A cute attempt of semantic entrapment, the “no question…” is an idiom in the English language, I omitted the understood “There is” . As to my reply, I wrote a cogent argument as to why authorship of BWV 565 by J S Bach is on very solid ground (another figure of speech). Or do you take the position that J S Bach didn’t compose the Toccata and Fugue in D minor? If I had wanted I might have listed the musicologists by name puerile arguments and offered refutation with examples from the Keyboard Toccatas (for your benefit earlier works with similar). Why don’t you take up the position of J S Bach didn’t write the work with examples? That would bring much more more to the table (another idiom) on your part, rather than vain attempts at a put down, another figure of speech. Or how about my much longer commentary I posted not as a reply? It’s much longer, repeats my earlier reply, and surely you can find something else to belittle.

@Renshen1957

11 ай бұрын

Mr Booth, you want to investigate the 7 keyboard Toccatas of J S Bach. The d minor, the c minor, and not the later ones in the collection you might see similarities.

I'm amazed of how your markings in the sheet music reminds me of myself. The arrows, bows, numbers, circles. 🌠🌃🎓🎯💡

you're killing me not talking about the fugue!

This toccata started my very amazing adventure with classical music. I was 12. I heard it on music lesson in basic school. Nothing was the same after that event.

I hit the "like" button at the first chord! Richter's interpretation of this is my absolute FAVORITE...*swoon*

Gracias y esta traducido al español. Genial!!

Magnificent video. This is very enlightening. Is the background Bach? Grief of loss of loved ones??? Thank you.

The Toccata doesn't sound like any other piece by Bach that I'm aware of. The trembling arpeggios are a pure "sound effect." Are there any other pieces by Bach that used sound effects at all, or in such a dramatic way? 🤷 The Fugue sounds like it could be by Bach due to its flowing Baroque modulations, but a good student could have copied that style. The fact that there is no known original/signed manuscript is also suspicious.

@louise_rose

11 ай бұрын

Yes, I just made a coment about this too. It has also been suggested that it was originally written for violin, and transcribed for organ: the sonic devices would fit in well on a violin.

@Oldman808

11 ай бұрын

The piece is not by Bach.

Very wise comments¡

Love this analysis. Win Winters at his best. Thank you, Wim.

Hello Wim! Great video. Are you close on finishing the book? Can’t wait to have my copy. Thank you

suninmoon4601 wrote "I enjoy imagining the mental and emotional state of the composer." Me too. Getting a first person understanding of the composer. Putting ourselves in their position (and as them, not as us). And I try to do this when learning and performing their music e.g. my Bach 542 and 548ii performances. How did Bach feel as he wrote this and as he performed this? And then take on that feeling. I try to include things like the inevitable competition between him and other musicians and composers, the feeling of knowing that his music was good even if it wasn't well appreciated and hence that wasn't confirmed at the time, conflicts with his church and with listeners, and whether he truly liked Buxtehude's music or whether actually he felt it missed something hugely important and urgently wanted to put that right e.g. with 582. I think doing this is really important, yet so often it's not what's done at all, especially with organ music.

Most interesting.

Hehe. Beyond indeed. Grüße aus sonnigem Wien, Scott

Bedankt voor deze uitleg rond de Toccata Wim, zo had ik het nog nooit gehoord, en ook nooit de bedoeling van Bach hierbij begrepen... Het is dus inderdaad zo dat bepaalde notenreeksen een bedoeling hebben... Ik beluister dit stuk dus ook anders in de toekomst... Nogmaals dank, ook voor de CD's!

This was the first piece I ever played. I transcribed it for piano from a piano transcription. I learned the fugue also after my own transcription. I thought it would be nice as a showpiece. But, I see I was quite off in making it solely a piece to impress as it is really made to enjoy the gut feelings however dark they end up. The choice to truly use the fermatas to lengthen the rests feels so much better. (Of course it really does feel not just epic but tragic on the organ.) And this sounds like a nineteen year old Bach to me.

No clear evidense that Bach composed this piece. And any hints at the number "3" representing the Holy Trinity could just as easily support a tritone, or the "Devil's Interval," or "Satan's Chord," makes this mysterious piece one of the most interesting works of music ever composed.

____________I think the song (the full song) is ultimately about the 3rd to last chord. You can always hear angels in it but it's only held for a brief moment. Like a life.

@aldeayeah

Ай бұрын

I like that it ends on a minor chord instead of a picardy third like most WTC minor pieces.

I'm not a Bach scholar nor anything approaching a cursory approximation to musicologist - but viscerally I don't 'feel' this piece is really by Bach. Don't ask me why, because I simply don't know! At best on a good day, after hearing Manze's recording years ago, I quite like the idea it was originally for solo violin.

I’ve always found it interesting just how many ways there are to play the first three bars of this masterpiece. Obviously I prefer the portentous way I play it, but Wim is close, if a little fast 😉

@louise_rose

11 ай бұрын

I agree! The jumps between heavy chords, pauses and rapid up/down runs to create a feeling of wide space, and perhaps a human voice calling out to the Lord, is featured even more powerfully in the G minor Fantasia, BWV 542. Few organ pieces seem to bring the divine and the human, time and eternity, face to face as intensely as that one, especially if it's played in a portentous way with long pauses, long echo and powerful striding rhythm, like in Helmut Walcha's famous recording.

Check the opening of the movie Rollerball. Fits brilliantly

This Toccata sums up the Human Condition™️, especially in the end: very “sentencing”.

@AlbertoSegovia.

11 ай бұрын

After watching, yes, it does sound like God’s Wrath!

Great video. The background track? Not so much. Hard to focus on the topic and your voice with it playing in the background.

@Rollinglenn

11 ай бұрын

I had a similar response, however, I want to explore it further - a separate video hosted and expounded by Wim of all of these recordings would be a great followup!!!

@michaelschwaiger8071

11 ай бұрын

I thought that too, the background music was not necessary and conflicted with the organ music.

I hope this one makes the target as I put my money in this one... I'll let you inow that I don't have good luck with Kickstarter in seeing completed projects... If this makes it...this will be the first of 200 I funded in the past...

Does anyone else think he's playing twice as fast as he should be?

We're gonna make it!! 😉 By the way, what frequency is the lowest D on the organ?

@vidselih

11 ай бұрын

Haha, that depends on the design of the organ, what the pedal disposition is, how it is tuned. At least in baroque times in Europe organs could be tuned to well above A440 Hz (northern Germany, Netherlands) and also well below it (France). But if you insist: providing the organ has 32 ft pedal register, the low D and A440 tuned would be (about) 18 Hz. If the organ has (only) 16 ft, then lowest D would be (about) 37 Hz. And exact frequency you'd hear still depends on the current temperature of the environment (warm - high, cold, low). So no straight-ahead answer possible.

Bach didnt write this piece..he was only a physical being through whom God showed mankind his majesty and brilliance beyond just physical creation..

The answer is in the fugue. ;)

In the opening motif, the g-f form an upbeat to the e, and the c# is a 32nd (not a 16th). Does any recording like that exist?

@BachFlip

11 ай бұрын

You are indeed correct! Considering how famous this opening is, it is astonishing how the vast majority of players still seem to play it incorrectly! I have lost count of the many, many versions that land far too heavily on those C sharps, worst still slurring to the D afterwards. I always play the C sharps distinctly separated from the D's which, if the notes and rests are observed precisely, should receive the accent. Have you heard Ton Koopman perform this?

Thank you. Is there a reason it's a semitone sharp? Or is my piano as flat as my playing? :|

@SirWhiteRabbit-gr5so

10 ай бұрын

Your piano is likely modern concert pitch A=440 hz. While baroque tuning is A=415 hz or even A=390 hz, German baroque organs were sometimes as high as A=465. When played in ensemble performance choiristers, musicians and keyboardist might have to transpose on the fly

It was this piece that started my love affair with D min. :)

I'd crack up if this T&F was an improvisational piece set a bit later... At least that would be my theory...

This is surmised sometimes to have been, originally, a violin piece: the phrasing and the flourishes are very easy to picture played on a violin (there's a very nice violin recording by Andrew Manze, where he played it in a deliberately semi-improvised style). There is no surviving manuscript from Bach's own lifetime, so the question what the original instrument was remains open, and it has even been questioned if J.S. Bach was the composer at all or whether it was written by one of his sons around the middle of the century. This would not take away anything of the power and sophistication of the music, of course.

Bachle up :-)

I tried to make a small donation but the sign-in process didn't work.

Greetings Wim, interesting analysis of this (in)famous toccata. I sincerely hope you will do a similar analysis for the fugue part. It is interesting that you equate the (over)abundance of tritone intervals in this piece with pain. After reflecting on it, I have come up with the following alternative interpretation of the piece. The descending section at start remains the same: the mortal gets crushed, asks for succour, and hopes for a divine intervention. From this point on, I'm thinking that they are getting an answer, but not from the source they were hoping for: the ascending line represents Satan/Lucifer breaking free from their imprisonment in hell (going from Dante Aghlieri's epic Commedia Divina here), the descending chord represent their coming down to earth to answer the mortal asking for succour, and the rest of the phrase is the mortal realising what they've done. The next phrase, with the repeated A's in the left hand, represent the mortal pleading with Satan to leave in peace, and the broken chords right after is the back and forth between the two, with the mortal's pleas becoming more urgent, and Satan's rebuffs more gloating. The prestissimo section, which is full of tritones, can represent the mortal's descent into madness as the true scale of their error sinks in, as well as Satan unleashing their power onto the world. This leads neatly into the final chord, the dramatic, descending pedal, and the minor plagal cadence to indicate that the world is well and truly doomed. Please let me know what you think of this alternative interpretation.

@Smileater

11 ай бұрын

@Herrdoktorjohan I like and love your interpretation. It's true musicians as Bach could create and normally did numerous piece that served as studies and practice pieces, often to put the student's skills at test; but it is also true that a good teacher and virtuoso can do that while also convey a powerful story line with sounds and the symbolism that chords, progression, ascending and descending lines, contrapunctus, harmonies and dissonance can deliver. Let's remember Bach lacked notations for interpretation, so the possibilities of how some of his compositions could have been played different if he'd had a modern piano is just mind-blowing. Toccata in D minor shares feelings of hopelessness, yes, but it can also impoy feelings of horror (Satan invading the Earth) and the need of God and Faithzl, which is something J. S. Bach was very fond of.

You need to get in touch with Robert Edward Grant, you speak the same mystical language

Hi Wim, I love your videos. However, you've made a mistake in this one: at 10:43. This is not a plagal cadence, it's an ordinary authentic cadence (clausula finalis perfectissima). Truly unseen for Bach? Quite the opposite, such cadences are very common in Bach's music. The absence of Picardy third is not at all uncommon in Bach's music. Almost every minor prelude and fugue in the second book of WTK has such a cadence. You have confused the cadence that ends the toccata with the cadence that ends the fugue that follows it. The fugue indeed ends with a minor plagal cadence, which is quite unusual. This is not played in the video, though. It is quite possible that this cadence was not written by Bach, but by the arranger who may have took some earlier piece by Bach (perhaps for a solo string instrument, given the bariolage theme, and echoes) and rewrote it for the organ. In any case, it's an unusual piece, and the autograph is missing, so we can only guess.

It's a masterpiece worthy of Bach, but I don't think it's his. The following fugue sounds much more authentic, though.

@loren8888

10 ай бұрын

Bach was a human after all. And he composed this when he was young. His style wasn't as developed

Master teacher….

PLEASE can you analyze the MASS IN B MINOR !

I thought it's questionable if this piece is really from Bach, isn't it?

I know Bach is from the Baroque era, but this shows he had a Romantic side as well.

Thank you very much for this video... fantastic. I would like to show another point of view about the dialog that is established between two forces, as you commented. First of all, it seems to me to be a Christian work in its deepest meaning... because it deals with the question of Love. Love and Pain... since one cannot exist without the other. And this indicates to us that the dialog is between God and Satan, and not really with Man, who should or must be the redeemer of Lucifer himself, through Love. Hence the sequence of notes in the opening, three times, showing the Fall of the Angel. To the deepest D. All this was very well pointed out in your video... I only try here to show who could be the subject of the downward movement. There can be no greater Pain than that of the Father who is compelled to cause His beloved Son, the one who is closest to Him, to descend in falling to the plane of Non-Love. And through this Love, God Himself is forced to put Himself in the position of allowing His Son Freedom (Freedom = Right to err). In the same way, the Pain of the fallen Son, without the possibility to love, is also immense... or even infinite. This theme has already been much developed by the great Popes, like Origenes for example and more recently by the writer Giovanni Papini... but both men and the church institution seem not to care about the depth of the question; only Man, through Love, can redeem Lucifer. It seems to me that this is what this magnificent work is about, even because, as you very well show, there is no Resolution ... the matter is to be resolved. And it is here that Men participate, or are invited to feel part of the Pain that Father and Son are subjected to, through the encounter of D with C#. Even the number given for the classification of the work, 565 (BWV) could lead us to think about this. Pentagram and Hexagram... but that would not be a subject for this text... only that it goes along with your initial interpretation of the Trinity. Again, many thanks for that fabulous video.

@josephmarewsky938

11 ай бұрын

@@chlorinda4479 so, you didn't ike Wim Winters' video? all these religious ideas are expressed in it: the descending notes and what they evoke in us, the Holy Trinity etc.

@josephmarewsky938

11 ай бұрын

​@@chlorinda4479 It's not a sermon 🙃... It is a reflection on the tensions to which we are subjected with these notes. But I can understand your point of view and respect it. Our comments are always a projection of ourselves as to what affects us (not a imposition, just a point of view). In other words, we tend to visualize our internal contents in the external world. When someone talks about a certain thing, we know more about the person than the external object itself. That's what I understand to be Beyond the Notes... subjectivity becomes very important... as you say: it really is a personal matter. Maybe you could intiiate a new independent comment expressing your feelings about the 565.

@josephmarewsky938

11 ай бұрын

@@chlorinda4479 Thank you for sharing your feelings about 565. Maybe we're all in agreement here. this song brings us the feeling of the Fall of the Angels in its deepest Christian aspect. you can feel it through the use of Dorian mode... excellent. But Milton's work, without a doubt, is about this misunderstood relationship of God, Satan, and Man (Adam-(H)eve). What led me to make the comment is precisely this mystery, visible in Milton, in considering with sympathy the revolt of Satan... BECAUSE His redemption is only possible through Man's Love, also for Him. But, this is certainly not the place for very long presentations on this topic. There are many other Plato/Ptagoric analyses that could be used to understand this magnificent music... But I think we've already reached a very important point of convergence. I really appreciated your interpretation of the 565... thank you.

I believe that this piece wasn't written by Bach and, most important, wasn't written for organ. The original is for violin, I believe (and probably in A minor). However, it's a dramatic piece: more dramatic than most baroque music. In my opinion that's why it's so famous. And it's good! good as transcription and good as music, of course. But no, starting from when I know that it isn't an original work for organ i'm not really interested in playing or studying it again.

I am 99.9% sure he NEVER WROTE IT.

Your explanation of the piece is fantastic. However please forgive me for following this with a small suggestion; to drop the background music during your explanations. I found it very distracting, like someone carrying on a second conversation while you talk, which is a shame as what you say is totally enthralling by itself.

8:13 - Notice it's played with the "sinester" foot ! MUAHAHAHAHA ! 👹

Everyone should read Peter Williams' article on this work and you will be shocked to learn that it is very unlikely that it is by JS

I had high hopes, but you did rush the end of the toccata, at least to my feelings... not really characteristic of you. In my humble view, Bach is much more thoughtful and dramatic (in awe of the divine following the baroque intellectual movement's original outset) than to play it so fast, especially around the resolution cadences.

Are you sure that piece is an authentic Bach work?...I am not sure...

I still say it's a work by Krebs. lol

This piece wasn’t composed by Bach.