The article - www.engadget.com/2010-05-06-icc-dps-analysis-by-spec.html

@pwnulater

2 жыл бұрын

Great video as always lad

@adam.maqavoy

2 жыл бұрын

As someone who have played both ( *From way back* ) & Pserver meta which is *Vastly* Different. From The Original Retail Servers in 2010. ~ I'm impressed..! #scottejaye - Great vid

Finally, a more data based view on class viability. WotLK is actually THE expansion which allows you to try out almost any specc without completely gimping yourself or becoming a meme. Another important aspect of these data sets, which was just briefly mentioned here, is the optimization level required to bring out the best performance. I don't simply call it skill level because optimization also includes the right consumables, the right profession choices, the right group composition etc. So by taking a look at the AVG data sets and the ones of the "top performers" you can identify which specs require more or less optimization to compete. This is an aspect which is usually overlooked in tier lists. Take shammy for example. So many people claim that shamans (except resto) are trash in WotLK. If you take a look at the actual data, the gaps are not nearly as dramatic as people say. So yeah, play whatever you like. I personally like the challange to stay competitive with a class/spec, which is perceived to be "sub-optimal".

@MrWwoww123

2 жыл бұрын

In your opinion, which classes require the least optimization?

@StCreed

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrWwoww123 If you look at average dps versus best player dps, it's rogues that are continuously on top. That means rogues should be easier to play than other classes :)

@Samualwallow

2 жыл бұрын

Actually to get that top parse the rogue needs a enh shammy in group

Fantastic find! Very cool to see just how reductionist tier lists are when compared to actual data. Would love to see how this shapes up in another couple years from now!

Thanks for that, always good to see data from a different angle.

Hey Scotte. Loving your content man. Thorough yet you keep it interesting. You're likable and funny and the postproduction on the videos are clean. Keep up the great work!

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Really appreciate it mate, cheers 🙏❤️

So much better to see a wide data set from the actual expansion rather than skewed numbers from smaller pools over far too long a period on private servers. The min maxing has so little bearing for the average player once you get past the first phase of content

@mikeiscoo2

2 жыл бұрын

this is shit data.. it was common place that rogues tricked each other back then. you can read my longer comment for actual information.

@mortekrieger2291

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikeiscoo2 yes it was common practice (i mained a rogue) and that's literally the point of live real world data instead of repeated sims on patchwerk clones. If the majority are doing something it becomes part of the average in the same way certain boss fights have different classes behaving in different ways giving you more meaningful numbers with a large dataset. Sims only work up until the point the are real world tested then averaged, private server numbers are skewed with bad mechanics, larger health pools effecting execute ranges, gearing changes (rate of collection and stat weighting) and a multitude of other factors not to mention the number of them using ICC 25 bis lists as a baseline for dps ranking which is worthless in a live real time scenario.

@sidh196

2 жыл бұрын

I mean... private server is going to be more accurate. Player skill is so different. I'd say private servers will represent the 90th percentile of players which is like a semi hardcore raiding guild in tbc.

@mikeiscoo2

2 жыл бұрын

@@sidh196 lol that’s the dumbest thing I’ve read.. how are private servers with higher boss health pools and more armor going to any clear representation of actual wrath classic… you literally have worse cd dps average. And you have skewed execute uptime damage… how on earth did you come to the conclusion in your head that private severs would be more accurate..

@doesntmatter5996

2 жыл бұрын

@@mikeiscoo2 never played a private server but if bosses have more armor it would mess with assassination dmg cause they dont stack arp but still do a good chunk of phys

My friend has been talking about DPS tier lists, and you articulated what I tried telling him perfectly.

Super interesting, thanks for the video!

Glad to see this video and a few others that use wider and more normalized data sets. Been seeing a lot of skewed videos/in-game opinions which skew certain ways that only take into account literal bis and the constant melee hype/copium.

This is actually a fantastic look at the data, thank you!

Great vid scotte, refreshing to see this alternative perspective with historical data

Very good insight Scotty! Loved this video.

That frost mage and sub rogue cut got me laughing so hard. Love you and as always, phenomenal video.

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers babe

Brother, I gotta say, this is my favorite wow classic channel. Many, dare I say most, other channels pump out videos constantly for the views. This channel doesn't feel like that at all. There's always an actual reason for the video you post behind hoping for clicks. Never change! 💕

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Appreciate that thank you mate 🙏

Great video, thanks for compiling this data!

Really good video as always. Thank you!

high quality vid and analysis, well done my boy!

Thought the title was clickbait.... turns out it wasn't. Keep up the good work Scott!

Thank you for posting this video. So many private server hardcores putting out crazy stuff.

5:25 is the weirdest UI layout ive every seen lmao. Great vid tho love the content man keep it coming

Thanks for this, every video I have seen show those same ele shaman numbers and I was almost second guessing my self.

Excellent video! So many people sperg out about "this class better than that class and if you bring fury warriors you might as well just stop because you won't clear any boss". These logs clearly show that for people who can do the rotation, DPS class balance in WotLK is extremely good.

What a refreshing video. I tend to shy away from these videos because I find myself watching them and thinking, "Oh god I need to re--roll so I can get a group!" But this left me with some hope for balance druid. I might try and make a new alt that I will enjoy in WOTLK rather than chasing the meters. Maybe something I've never played before!

@Zeph914

Жыл бұрын

I was able to top meters as a frost dk in wrath because a lot of people never focused on rotations or boss mechanics. It’s all about getting good in general and you’ll be fine… mostly lol.

@xDamage69

Жыл бұрын

@@Zeph914 frost dk gets giga cucked on LK and PP, the rest is fine, the thing is capping the stats which is cancer for frost dk but doable

Actual good and informing video!

Great video m8, really enjoyed it!

a video that doesnt just shit all over elemental shamans and shows they arent to different dps wise than some other classes. already makes this the best video on the subject out there!

I really like the message of "play what you want, there will be slots for your class", but these statistics look a lot different near BiS gear.

damn I love how good rogues are looking for Wrath. great video Scotte!

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Gonna be epic mate! I expect lots of funny rogue videos to keep me entertained in WOTLK from you ❤️

@Snxgur

2 жыл бұрын

WOTLIK HYPE WOTLIKA HYPE

Hey Scott what was the avg/peak dps of all classes in Tier 7? I couldnt find any info regarding that

I progressed through wrath as both a firemage and shadow priest, I can tell you one think: Nothing is more satisfying then a firemages hot streaks, it's incredible addicting and I've never had more fun dpsing then during wrath.

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Totally agree mate!! I’ve actually started playing my mage again in TBC just getting it ready for that in WOTLK 😊

@samclark2935

2 жыл бұрын

I played both a arcane(pve)/frost(pvp) on my mage and played shadow(pvp)/disc(pve) on my priest. I had a blast with both toons! At one point I remember shadow being pretty broken and I could beat anyone no matter their gear, with ease... lol

out of curiosity, i only spent a brief stint on a wotlk pserver that was an utter trainwreck- what do wrath pservers usually do that classic wrath wont do (because pservers got it wrong presumably)

This is your best wrath video to date. Gj man

Trying to decide if I should focus my time on my spriest or hunter in prep for Wrath... both are fresh level 70's with no gear as I just started playing TBC. Any thoughts on what will be more fun? Thanks!

@kkjjqrysdgadff7782

2 жыл бұрын

They're both very fun! Both are useful specs with some added responsibilities on certain fights. If you enjoy healing spriest has the added benefit of dual speccing as one of the most desired heal specs.

Most tier lists are just one persons opinion/experiences so it’s nice to see a non-biased list with holistic data. Also the point about having full icc25H gear can’t be stressed enough seeing as now you have to farm a full set of frost emblem gear before upgrading to tier 11, if anyone can get that in under 3 weeks then they’re super lucky and dedicated and doing better than 90% of the player base

subscribed. good content my man

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers mate ❤️

This is a really good video°!

Thanks! I feel better sticking with my enhance shaman.

Thanks Scotty think I'll continue with my ele shaman.

thanks for actual data summarising instead of a video just based on some personal experiences like most of the tier videos.

Can you provide a link to all the graphs? I'm very interested in seeing more of those graphs

Love all the content man! Appreciate your work. The comment is just for support really :)

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Appreciate it thank you mate 🙏

It's crazy how ret starts middle of the pack and slowly goes to top 25% even on meelee unfriendly fights. Interesting, can't wait to see what I can do in classic Wrath.

@Snxgur

2 жыл бұрын

hopium

@MrHydra12

2 жыл бұрын

@@Snxgur I’ll never understand the hate for ret. you guys must really hate physical damage boss murderers. Can parse 3k on twins and still be memed on for being ret.

@Elaksomfan

2 жыл бұрын

Well before 2set ICC they are quite middling in terms of dmg. Still bring alot of utility but most of the people complaining only care about the dps meter

its also worth keeping in mind how classes affect others and how useful some classes are to have in a raid regardless of where they really stand on the charts. Frost DKs for just one example providing a very useful haste buff to the raid. Play what you find is fun/cool, get half assed competent at your role and you will do fine

Ok, now this is more like it, I mained boomkin back in the day, my guild was consistently clearing heroic 25s/hardmodes/etc...and I was always crushing the meters, near the top on every fight....these graphs of top 200 are definitely more in line with my memory of wotlk

another banger scotte !!!

Great hat choice!

Scotte is a pillar of the classic community Thank you for the great content! 👍

@danbill9165

2 жыл бұрын

Love this comment

@helpmeinburning

2 жыл бұрын

He's a noob

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

I do love an intellectually challenged comment 😂 you smashed it mate Had to edit because I felt bad being sarcastic to a kid who has Hugh jackman as their profile picture , sorry mate 😂😂

@helpmeinburning

2 жыл бұрын

@@Scottejaye you've never played the game at a high level. You made a video saying moonkin was S tier cos in your shit guild they did top damage just because 80% of the dps in the run didn't know how to play their class. This video is misleading because it only applies to the last tier of the game. Like I said, you're a noob.

This has me excited about playing a fury warrior in Wrath.

It's nice what shadow priest from just mana battery and warlock buffer will evolve to decent dps =)

Where do you get the data from?

Does anyone have reliable info/data on apm rankings for wotlk? Can really only find stuff for bfa/shadowlands myself.

The title hooked me into the video haha

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Hopefully you didn’t regret clicking! 😁

Nice one 👍👍👍 gj!!!!

Nice to see an accurate representation for assassination rogues that falls in line with what I knew from wrath. Everyone's praising combat rogues and I'm just rolling my eyes.

@TomsWhip

2 жыл бұрын

The difference today is now we know EXACTLY how/why/when combat beats assassination. Asassination will be the best average performing spec in this chart simply due to the fact it doesnt rely as much on armor penetration as combat does (breakpoints and armor pen levels). Its much more casual friendly. But now in 2022-2023 you will see very quickly how in ulduar combat soundly beats assassination, where earlier than that assassination will be more consistently high on the meters.

@Hyujin971

2 жыл бұрын

Actually, the combat / assa icons were misstaken for each other in the video, combat is the one on top with assa closely behind.

@michaelmartinez9687

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I was always top dps as mutilate. When I watched some other videos, I think back and second guess myself. But this confirms what I remember.

@Mammel248

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, combat is better than assassination *once you near ICC BiS *, before that assassination > combat and these logs show it.

@plebiusjonbson823

2 жыл бұрын

People that played Warmane are going to have a MASSIVE advantage over the idiots that have been paying wow subs continuously for years hahaha

O am trying to find good numbers for heroics and dungeon performance on three targets or nore. Can't seem to find any information about it, I know it is because hcs are easy vs raids and so few care about it. But I don't plan to raid in wotlkc!

I've always gravitated towards Orc Arms Warriors, Undead Shadow Priests, and Night Elf Hunters. Those are what I tend to play the most often. I want to try an Enhancement shaman though but being unfamiliar with the class I'm kind of nervous about it.

Is this dataset still available somewhere?

it would be dope for you to do a guide on gear to get if wanting to play spellhance as soon as wotlk drops. like what gear from swp/bt/etc. we can get now to play it right out the gate

Is that an assassination warrior i see on the graph?? As someone who's on the fence about whether I'm gonna play wrath classic and have no idea what I want to play I appreciate the info and not just a bias, nice vid

Nice videos!

your muscle memory is the real dps

This tier list was actually useful.

I remember world of logs a couple my toons made the top 10/20 in ICC back then and even did it with BM spec hunter

Great info

Great vid, only nitpick is the bar graphs not starting at 0 thus giving a misleading picture that the lowest DPS is that much lower than the rest.

Very weird that in top 200 vs average Arcane suddenly becomes better than fire. I think there is something wrong in these stats that shouldn't be happening right?

"you migt not be average" as an average-andy im feeling personally attacked - XD

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Hahahha sorry my man ❤️

Just straight facts rather than a subjective tier list, noice.

Data posted on the web anywhere?

Thank you very much

I've been wondering for ages whether to stick with my boomkin (made Day 1 of Classic, mained since), or change to Ret-a-din and I STILL have no idea what to do lol

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Honest play what you are drawn to most and you’ll smash it!

@i.r6990

2 жыл бұрын

My opinion: moonkin as it is insanely fun and there will be ton of paladins.

I would be curious to see what the impact of fight length was on the ICC normal rankings. I assume that would be helping the rogues here what with their insane adrenaline rush burst

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Well you can assume these fights are average length because for all these logs heroic had only just been World Firsted by paragon so no one will be bis geared etc

@traviswest982

2 жыл бұрын

Partially true, but Assassination doesn't have access to Adrenaline Rush and they were above Combat in each of those fights. They just have really good sustained DPS from their poisons.

Subbed to you quite recently, could you do videos about healers and tanks if you could find any, a lot of tier lists mostly this "rugs and crix" dude talking about how prot pally is like the ONLY choice, for tank and healers to be viable i think you should put those tier lists to reset because you have such a larger channel then they do.

@throwawayxxxxxxxxxx

2 жыл бұрын

I agree there seem's to be a crazy amount of fear mongering about lower spec classes, crix going full on insulting people in his comments insulting people for picking "the worst tank and healer" and this is the top video on youtube when you look up tank and class tier lists this type of actions do not belong in the wow community.

Great points

The top 200 logs are usually being fed PI/Innervate and other externals.

Another MVP video!

Good video, good stats. One should however take into account that we're getting the latest class balance changes from the start. This may slightly change the meta. (unless all the bosses you mentioned was all from late game. I wouldn't know, since i only ever played pvp back in those days)

@ryanbruce3670

2 жыл бұрын

Icc Was the last raid and the balance patch we're getting

@Paamejer

2 жыл бұрын

@@ryanbruce3670 that is what he said, he's referring to whether naxx was 3.3.5 or pre 3.3.5

Yep, it was better than any Wotlk list. Cheers 🍻

Happy to see if I pump I can still compete as ele shaman in pve!

Is that your gameplay on the Warlock? If so, can we get a link to that ElvUI profile? 👀

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

It’s not mine mate just some generic footage from random KZread videos I’ve amassed over the last year unfortunately 😊

@Miller1107

2 жыл бұрын

@@Scottejaye Darn! No worries. Pretty sure I can replicate it easily anyhow! Screencap 📸

one of the best top3 classic creators by far for me

Love the way you say "data".

My guild wants me to play warlock, and it doesn't seem too bad tbh :) gonna be fun to be the support spec demo in the raids, and then be able to smash some PvP as destro! I used to play enha/ele shaman back in retail WotLK and I'm super hyped to get to try out warlock this time!

@anttihakkarainen1520

2 жыл бұрын

@@freedmfe8934 I've always wanted to try out the demo spec - And demo spec gets funneled spelldmg gear which boosts up my Destro pvp gear :) So it's kinda nice when you think about it

I am confused now, this chart says Assassin is tops but every other dps list I have seen states combat is tops and Assassin is mid tier.

the thing is now its going to be very hard to get into raids as certain specs or classes because of all there tier list videos even if you could do equal dps.

Just the right amount of funny

Well in private Server as a ele, when i Focus i could be 4-5 DPS or 10-11 on the same fights.

Affli lock tops almost all fights in naxx, ulduar, togc and icc. When u reach endgame (icc 25hc ilvl), fire mage will be top on most fights.

If it doesn't end with wotlk, when does it end?

Good video really highlighting the glaring flaw within all these ZOMGTIERLISTTIME videos. Easy and quick to digest too.

@Scottejaye

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Is boomkin skill intensive or what? That's the class that changes the most between the average and the best performers

Will wotlk bring target dummys to the citys? Also nice video

@brandondeese8073

2 жыл бұрын

Yes

yooo I haven't heard the name "Elitist Jerks" in a looong time

Love the hat!

Interesting thanks

I was in the top 40 warriors on Mok Nathal US back in the day.

"by the time youre full icc cata will be out" ive never gagged so hard in my life.

I got a big hardon for full arp combat rogues. And furry warriors. And blood dps (yes, it was a viable dps spec back in wotlk).

Mutilate was dummy strong also. Rogues in general are just really good in Wrath.

I think this is an important video, one of the best things about WOTLK is not only is every class viable and desirable but nearly every spec (not all but nearly all of them). Get to finally play what you really want and enjoy it.