I agree that my assessment of combat rogue specifically was a bit harsh, and if I had to re-rank I would put it in B tier especially due to the burst damage they provide. That being said, I still think assassination will be played significantly more and is the better overall spec outside of two target fights. Sub is still D tier - just because you can pull it off for 2-3 fights max doesn't make it a worthy choice when assassination can perform just as well, on top of being an easier spec to play. As far as Marksman goes, it's F tier for the same reason as Fury: Survival is literally always better and Marksman doesn't provide utility to make up for it. Hope that clears things up a bit.

@alexcrow332

2 ай бұрын

Wrong on sub. So wrong. This speaks to just no actual knowledge on the class and just parrot what other creators have said.

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

@@alexcrow332 I'm also basing this on private server logs which very much back up what I'm saying This isn't 2011, people have been playing Cataclysm for a long time on these servers and have figured all of this out sorry

@TheR41N

2 ай бұрын

Personally( I played cata on privs for 12y), i would rank Combat at B, BM and MM at D(I have seen more MM's and with better numbers on raids, than BM's), SUB should stay at D(as it's useful on Valiona hc in portals and nothing more), and moved Feral-cat to A-tier(for skilled players - very hard, but possible good numbers, or it could be B for normal players). PS. I hope to see next video with tank & healer ranking. PS2. AND to see prot war not even making on the list ;].

@joemcginnis1718

2 ай бұрын

I play druid boomie in wrath but was thinking about switching to hunter or fire mage I have hierloom gear for mage though what should I play

@rhzyo

Ай бұрын

​@@alexcrow332 you're wrong Im right, always the argument of someone that has no facts or evidence as to why

I like how you put this tierlist, given the fact that some classes are better than others per tier. Overall, I agree with where the specs are placed tbh. Subbed for future vids

Would love a tank tier list in this style, taking into account performance across phases. Most tier lists just focus on one phase or provide no actual context for the ratings, so it's good to see this.

@ivailomendarov2378

2 ай бұрын

Depends on what do you look for ,Pure tankiness -Dk all day ,good balanced choice for every scenario -Bear , from firelands onward -Prot paladin ,if you want to test yourself -Prot warrior.

@naejimba

2 ай бұрын

Everything works; warrior tanks are behind the other specs.

@TheR41N

2 ай бұрын

@@ivailomendarov2378 "test yourself"? ;] more like: test healers patience

@Ntwolf1220

4 күн бұрын

@@ivailomendarov2378it’s a shame cuz prot warrior is so ridiculously fun in cata

Pretty good tierlist imo. Also the fact that so many of the specs are S or A tier is a sign of a good balance.

@TheR41N

2 ай бұрын

There are only 2 rules in cata regarding specs: -do not go frost mage for pve dps, -do not even try tanking end game as prot warrior. Everything else will more, or less work(unless you try very hard to compile whole raid team of D-tier and below specs and even then it still might work fine).

@andrewnunn7976

Ай бұрын

If you want balance join the FF move I’m still playing cata but can’t deny FF takes balancing pretty seriously

Best class tier video I've seen so far.

The best tier list I’ve seen so far, not just the placing but the information and the delivery. Way better than the other wow content creators smh.

I played back in the day cata in good guild i don't now early on with the last patch, but in dragon soul unholy wasn't that good for most bosses, you needed burst dps for the hardest bosses like the back of deathwing or the boat and have a lot of changing targets. Same reason why furty warriors and sub rogues were used a lot.

balance and cat I think will be similar single target. Edging out the balance with the lego staff. Also, without a bear, cat brings instant sunder. Allowing wars/rogues to spend more casts on damage. With a bear, cat can do this aswell AND dont have to keep up mangle. (Also STAMPEDE!) You definitely wouldnt stack them, but I think cats will surprise people in cata in both cleave and single. Solid tier list bro

If anyone is curious about the Tank and Healing strength of Cata Main Tank: Blood S tier Paladin: A tier Bear: B tier Warrior: C tier Off tank: Bear S tier Warrior: A tier Blood: B+ tier Paladin: B tier Your Blood DK will literally always have a cooldown up, they'll be taking the least amount of damage by far of any tank from bosses and you'll be least worried about them, Bears are the highest damage tanks by far when they aren't tanking the boss and they can absolutely hold what they need to. The other 2 specs are pretty much diet versions of them, Paladins will not be able to have 100% rolling uptime on cooldowns and Battle Stance just isn't comparable to cat in a tank spec. You'll probably be able to do most content with any combination of tanks but these are the best. For the most part consider the ideal tank setup to be Main tank: Blood DK/Paladin Off tank: Bear/Warrior For Healers it's less a tiering rung and more of a role fulfillment King of Tank healing: Holy Paladin Raid Healers: Shaman (25 man) Holy Priest (10 man), Druid The boob: Disc You'll always have a Holy Paladin, in terms of bombing a heal into a tank there is literally nothing comparable to a Holy Paladin, they have more tools but in this matter they are still unmatched. However, health values are high in Cata, mana is tight and bosses love to spam random unavoidable damage and a holy light isn't going to heal your DPS any longer so you need the throughput healers to efficiently heal your raid. Shamans especially will feel the difference between 10 and 25 player because Spirit Link Totem directly scales with the number of players, a vocal Resto Shaman will complain if they heal a 10 man right after a 25 man because their Spirit Link Totem is just objectively worse but they are incredible in 25 mans. Holy Priests aren't as constrained to the number of bodies as Resto Shamans are but a Holy Priest being able to AOE heal the raid without entering the AOE Chakra is going to be so much happier than a Holy Priest that has to enter the AOE Chakra to Raid heal. Druids are literally just constant hots and healing. They're the kings of efficiency and are likely topping the throughput healing charts because overhealing is a much rarer case in Cataclysm. Unfortunately for Resto Druids though they are likely the first healer to get cut if you decide to drop a heals for a fight on farm so if you're going to main a Resto Druid make sure to have a Balance spec ready to go. Disc Priests are the kings of cheesing a fight, Power Word: Barrier or as it will be called out as "The Boob" literally breaks so many encounters. They still have that pesky Power Word Shield can't stack thing that prevents them from being as efficiently stacked as they can and their new hybrid DPS/Healing spec is here but for some specific fights you can expect to see 2 or 3 Disc Priests to ignore a mechanic, you'll never top healing charts with the sole exception of Halfus Wyrmbreaker so savor this fleeting moment of glory.

@TOXINZ2

Ай бұрын

Hey everyone loves boobs though! ;)

This tier list aged well.

@moxlolol

4 күн бұрын

I tried to tell people and they doubted me

Helloooooo, thx for the tier list ! I have few choice of dps to play : dk uh/SP/war/ret Question : what is the best dps in the really early at cata ? Is is Dk uh like it was at wrath ? Thx

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

Death Knight can either be frost or unholy and still be viable, frost is more fun to play and still competitive imo. Out of those options, you're gonna be having a good time no matter what as they're all strong

I don’t have big opinions on tier lists, and I was very very young playing Cataclysm, but I heard Arcane/Fire mages were really great in Firelands & Dragon Soul tier but I could be wrong so…

@Melodeath00

2 ай бұрын

Arcane was OP because of the "reduced mana cost trinket" from Sinestra. This got nerfed some time during Firelands, and will stay nerfed if Cata is based on the state of talents and items from the last patch.

Really accurate tierlist, can’t disagree with any of it. Maybe a bit too harsh on Fury warriors, yeah they will be legitimately F tier in T11 but in later phases probably C. Never sleep on the fury warrior community to overperform expectations in Classic. Cataclysm did a great job of introducing incredibly unique raid fights that underrepresented specs could excel on. One example is Spine of Deathwing, where sub rogues and arcane mages were nearly mandatory because of their burst damage. Another example is Chimaeron, a fight that took advantage of Resto Shaman’s strengths (stacking raid at perma low health). Shaman shined on fights with important frequent kicks, like Maloriak.

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

I was contemplating C tier for Fury a lot and even D tier, but there's just essentially never a reason to be Fury over Arms in virtually any situation throughout the xpack and with zero unique utility it just felt like an F tier. If this list was raw DPS I'd probably put them in C. Appreciate your feedback, 100% agreed on the versatile design of raiding

@DownsyMB

2 ай бұрын

I played a resto shaman during cata. Chimaron we were great for the reasons you mentioned but believe it or not we were still behind Resto druid and Holy priest(statistically, not necessarily just my raid) when stacked up and later in the expac Holy Paladin pulled ahead as well after some of the 4.3 changes.

@stillnotchill2560

Ай бұрын

​@@moxlololI don't think ranking a spec lower just because the class has a better option makes sense. I think you should only factor that individual spec's viability. Otherwise it might as well not be a tier list and more of "which spec is best for each class".

@moxlolol

Ай бұрын

@@stillnotchill2560 if you can travel down one road to get to a destination 80% faster than another road, then realistically you only have one viable road. Arms is so much better than fury in every way that it makes fury irrelevant to the point where it's not worth talking about. If you like the playstyle and rotation, sure, you can get away with it, but nobody serious about raiding will use it, even when it has niche usecases

@brandonkruse6412

Ай бұрын

Arms is noticeably better than Fury until basically the end of Firelands. Just like MoP, Fury comes online with certain stat break points and two high ilvl weapons. Same was true in Throne of Thunder.

A note on innervate: the Cata changes means it hardly does anything when used on another target but is very powerful when used on yourself. So innervate mostly becomes self use only.

@TheR41N

2 ай бұрын

It's more like, it gives mana equal to % of casters mana, to target, so resto and balance give good innervate(and yes, it gives more if target is caster, so resto gives always to himself and bala gives always to healers), but ferals innervate is weak, because they have little mana and need to exit cat/bear form(so they almost never give innervate, cat sometimes to healers).

@afscrew123

2 ай бұрын

@@TheR41N but it gives way less % if used on someone else instead of on urself. Its never worth to use it on anyone else, even with the glyph

@Lazy_Smurf

23 күн бұрын

​@@TheR41N it definitely worse, but if you're a feral and you arnt using innervate on a healer or even your top mage, kind of a waste. Feral innervate is for when shit is hitting the fan and the healers are panicing. (Im a Cat/Rdruid)

I agree that a clean kill and utility works better in the end. Sadly, I think it is just you and me bro 😂 Everyone else seem to be chasing statistics

As a rogue who went pillar to post in vanilla classic combat rogue dominates cata classic because of its mastery bonus and boosted energy regen, they change a lot about rogues and boosted combat a lot because of how dominant assassination was in wotlk. You have access to more glyph boosts and such too, cata combat rogues from start to finish are top 5 raid dps usually up top more only classes that beat it at mages usually, most classes pump 45-60k dps throughout the expansion, mages pushing there legendary end up doing 50-70k and combat rogues push 55-80k assassination rogues even with legendaries run 45-65k they end up being middle of the road. Also feral is super strong melee a lot of dot changes and boosts to mangle so you don’t lose so much dmg if you can’t get behind. A mob they are up there in dps too. I don’t know where you’re basing any of this information off of lol,

I think this is fairly accurate, what I would add though is the fact that some of the specs/classes is more or less in a "bring one, and only one" situation. LIke Balance Druids, Feral Druids, Ret Paladins and you might bring 2 Shadow Priests. Their numerical (throughput) value isn't great enough to stack, but their group support value is massive. So while I agree they're A (or even S) tier if you don't have one the moment you have one, the second one becomes C or D tier.

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

you're right, I think my biggest mistake was not differentiating more between 10 and 25 man

Keep in mind in classic we will be starting in 4.3 patch class balance, not necessarily a shot at your vid but just a general note as class balance will be different first tier. Resto druids for example after Wild Growth nerf will be weaker than originally and holy palys will be slightly stronger. Enhance shamans AoE will be infinitely better. Just some random examples.

Play whatever do good parses people will want you 100%

Theres plenty of fights where Demo warlock is subpar compared to both Affli and Destro (bonus the fact that destro and affli uses same gear while demo is more gimmicky with mastery stacking), Destro has risen a lot in performance/viability on the most recent cata private servers, whitemane/athena. I've played on all Twinstar cata servers and back on Hades / Apollo 1 no one played destro but the representation has only risen. Similar with UHDK (but thats cuz UHDKs scripting is kinda busted on twinstar atm)

@gg025

2 ай бұрын

does demo deserve S tier?

Was planning on continuing as arms warrior , but there will be so many fotm rolling it wo ill prob main shaman and swap my old alt to main

This just want me to go my Sub rogue or make a Frost mage even more :D

i remember blood dk and disc priest was op af in arena

Agreed on most of your placements, although one big thing to mention is you (especially in the DK section) are overvaluing Brez a LOT. Keep in mind in cata (a lot of people aren't aware of this change) a new restriction is added where you can only brez 1 person per attempt in your 10 man raid and 3 people for a 25. That on top of many more specs having brez available and.. brez suddenly isn't a huge deal because many other people will also inevitably be bringing it unless you're running a really weird comp. I actually don't mind your combat rogue placement as much as some people. In a vacuum the spec is solid (could be B instead of C, as you mentioned in your pin) but really why play combat when there are better melee options available. It's kind of the same reasoning for why you don't play fury warrior, except less exaggerated. To really nitpick I think BM and sub take a tough hit here by looking at the expansion through such a wide lens. Almost no one is going to main those specs, sure, but a ton of hunters and rogues will have those as their offspecs. Serious rogues will have sub as off for single-target fights and many hunters (especially in guilds that aren't super sweaty and have spotty attendance) will have BM for any time you are missing a specific buff (swiss army knife.. BM with various pets can bring almost every possible buff, it's insane). Anyway, best cata tier list I've seen so far, good video

Sub is slept on.... yes it is very difficult to play, but the potential it has is insane. Look at how classic sweat gave us bear weaving, flower weaving, etc. Sub is a big one to watch.

@user-sm8tx4jz3g

29 күн бұрын

Sub set recorda in patch 4.3, when he take so much agility)

@Lazy_Smurf

23 күн бұрын

Im super hyped to see subs get the lego daggers tbh

I don't care if it'll be viable or not, I'm 100% going to try Single-Minded Fury spec. Fury has always been my favorite spec, and I've always prefered the playstyle cadence of using 1 handers. Also, the Single-Minded Fury talent giving a flat 20% damage buff, and making Slam hit with both weapons... Am I the only one who thinks that sounds super strong?

@naejimba

2 ай бұрын

It just requires the stats to support it. You might want to look into putting together a mastery set for pre pull cheese; I don't know if this was changed but Death Wish would snapshot your stats at the time it was used.

This is sorta perfect in a weird way. You talk slightly slower than I would, which makes for a perfectly articulate 2x speed playthru. Saved me huge time ty.

Very well detailed list. Cata doesn’t have a big private server playerbase like woltk had. Hard to get a grasp what will be top since we’re basing a lot of the info from years ago. From this list it looks on par for what I was seeing on whitemane

I disagree a lot with how you sorted rogue. Combat has a niche damage profile that pretty much no other class has. They are, without a doubt, the best 2-target cleave dps spec in the game. Combat would excel on a lot of bosses with this kind of damage profile, such as Omnitron when the shield falls off the last targeted robot and allows you to have a phase where you can cleave both of the active robots, Magmaw when you have to kill the skeleton mob that spawns while still being able to hit the boss, Maloriak's black ooze adds, etc. Additionally, Combat has very good burst ST and cleave with Adrenaline Rush and Killing Spree. Using these CDs with Blade Flurry offers some of the best burst cleave in the game. I would put combat at a solid A tier because while their single target damage is decent, their 2 target cleave is unrivaled. I'd put assassination at around A or B tier as well. They do great single target damage but lack any real cleave or AOE (Fan of Knives was severely nerfed in Cataclysm). Subtlety I would also put at A tier, possibly S. While they do have poor damage early game, they scale very well into DS when they get the legendary daggers, becoming some of the top dps. Additionally, they probably have the best survivability of any class in the game, which is pretty important for a lot of the heroic bosses in Cataclysm. They have talents that encourage the usage of Recuperate which is already a ton of survivability, not to mention they have a talent which decreases damage taken from AOE spells by 30% while increasing the duration of Feint. Subtlety even has the ability to snapshot Rupture which would do a ton of damage on a boss like Nefarian. Rogues also offer Tricks of the Trade which is still a great damage utility spell that should still be able to snapshot spells like Corruption and Moonfire come Cataclysm. Rogues can also have very consistent AOE slows/Healing Reduction with Fan of Knives, as FoK scales off of your thrown weapon (which you can put a poison on in Cataclysm).

@racksirl8518

2 ай бұрын

Look for a lot of Assa rogues to build off the chicken BF spec as well in cata. Also an insane amount of burst if you line it up with overkill, and other CDs

@nicoperez9984

2 ай бұрын

sounds like ur a combat rogue🧐

@SIII021

2 ай бұрын

​@racksirl8518 you can't chicken spec in cata.

@racksirl8518

2 ай бұрын

@@SIII021 good to know!

@conorf8091

2 ай бұрын

Hunter is better cleave just by throwing explosive trap down

Is arcane mage really accurate? I thought it had more potential like inside firelands & even in dragon souls but maybe I am wrong. Fire will always be better but I don’t think arcane will be insanely behind other specs

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

It'll shine early on, and it is a viable spec. B tier is also a fine placement for it, but it doesn't have the greatest utility outside of arcane tactics (which ret paladins would bring anyway) on a low movement, single target fight Arcane would definitely keep up, but as the tier list states that's not what I based this on

@naejimba

2 ай бұрын

I mean... Arcane isn't bad at all; it's mostly that fire scales so well and is highly mobile while arcane is not in an expansion where there is a lot more movement. It's the same as with fury; most people wonder why you would play it if another spec is flat out better. Luckily, variation in output base on SKILL matters a lot more in Cata and MoP, and with the more difficult mechanics brining a player who can do mechanics > plays the "right" spec. With exceptions like PvP specs of frost mage and destro (and fury until you get the gear to support it) you can play whatever you'd like and clear content if you are good.

@QPoily

2 ай бұрын

The main thing to note is that Fire got some very sizeable buffs during t13. And since Classic is going to have 4.3.4 balance, whatever advantage Arcane initially held during Cataclysm's earlier tiers will likely not be a thing because of Fire dealing more damage than they did during the original t11 and t12 raids.

SV was always my fav spec, till they destroyed it in retail.

Is cata when they made survival hunter ridiculous with a bunch of dots and instant abilities?

@QPoily

2 ай бұрын

SV hunter in Cata is virtually the same as SV hunter in WotLK. Only difference is that instead of putting a DoT on the floor with Explosive Trap on single target you put a DoT on the boss with Black Arrow. Outside of that the rotation is very similar with the only real difference being that you need to use Arcane Shot to prevent overcapping on your Focus.

@kaas323

Ай бұрын

@@QPoily ALSO multishot puts serpent sting on all it hits

Deathwing hitting a fox nair

gief healer and tank tier list

U forgot dps blood dk's, isnt the most popular spec but there is still people who played it, like me.

@user-sm8tx4jz3g

29 күн бұрын

Tanking in dps gear? It's just 4 fun in normals and lfr

I thought elemental was the highest dmg output spec in cata? edit: oh you said that in the first minute...

@bul1886

2 ай бұрын

@@zachariahcandelaria9005 Ahh cheers mate

What is idea of Blizzard to create Frost DK or Fury Warrior and make them worst then other specs in PvP / PvE. Is it a joke or what?

Shadow is generally S tier in t11 and t12, but get outscaled in t13. Still A tier in Dragon Soul, but you simply can't keep up with the likes of Fire Mages, Arms Warrs and Legendary Rogues on single target fights. Shadow is ALWAYS S+++ on any fight where you can multidot 2-5 targets though, since no other class even comes close to their dmg output in this scenario. If your Shadow Priest is not 1# dmg by a lanslide on fights like Theralion and Valiona, Nefarian, Omnitron Defense System, Shannox, Lord Ryolith, Warmaster Blackhorn and Madness Of Deathwing, it's time to consider rerolling to an easier class. Shadow mass AoE is dogshit though. The comments about Rogues also seem off unless my memory is completely wrong. Combat is generally always much harder to play than Ass. Ass is low effort, good dmg, while Combat is high effort, great dmg. I never played Rogue myself in Cata, but I did play it in the two adjacent expansions WotLK and MoP, and in both cases Ass was pretty much the easiest spec to play in the entire game, and I remember this being the sentiment by actual Rogue players during Cata aswell. I also remember this being the exact case with our Rogues in my guild, and all the top Rogue parses in Dragon Soul being Combat, but since World of Logs is no longer up and running, you can't really go back to check.

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

The rogues in general are very nuanced and very different depending on the fight. Combat is probably A tier and my pinned comments clear things up a bit. Ass is just very consistent in every situation, while combat and sub shine hard in specific fights and situations. Dragon Soul you'll probably see sub rogues pop up a bit more. If I had a re-do on the list I would probably bump combat to A and sub to C/B, but generally I think the order is still the same. I think in most of the xpack, you'll see assassination/combat dual spec rogues for different fights

Sub rogue in Dragon Soul 1000% becomes S tier. It without a doubt pads the meters

@moxlolol

Ай бұрын

90% of people watching this video aren't going to raid dragon soul, the tier list is for every phase, and sub is only relevant for 2-3 fights in dragon soul and that's mostly with legendary daggers which the majority of rogues won't get. Niche situations don't skyrocket a spec as an overall good choice

arms warrior forever

i play enhance and i'm coping ik but im really hoping it turns out people played it so improperly back in the day that modern players will make it look like a brand new a or s tier spec the cope is real

@albeshino8875

2 ай бұрын

Same bro same we’ll make it work 😂

@EternallyGod

2 ай бұрын

So you are saying i was bad at the game? the class sucked.

@Zalorel4112

2 ай бұрын

honestly the biggest thing hold enh back is the lack of utility. there are only so many melee you can bring to a fight and when there is arms with rally, ret with sac/bubble/bop/auras/loh, unh with amz to choose from the spec becomes less and less justifiable to bring. I really love the crazy high lava lash crits in firelands and dragon soul (oh and seeing the fire nova effect hit a bunch of targets on a fight like yor'sahj) but unless I can find a 25m roster to play with idk if I'll make an enh alt like I usually do. edit: oh and quite a few bis pieces are actually from hc firelands so enh will have a little less hp than most other melee

@tribbybueno

2 ай бұрын

@@EternallyGod probably. everybody was bad at the game back then. don't take it personally

@tribbybueno

2 ай бұрын

@@Zalorel4112 enh is classically the squishiest melee so that's nothing new. And sure, it may lack on the utility front but again, if you compare how people played/geared enh in original wotlk to now, it's basically a completely different spec. I'm hoping that extends to cata is my point

Im playing frost mage and bm hunter ❤

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

OOF

@TheR41N

2 ай бұрын

I hope You are not tanking as prot war also ;]

@lorenzousandoval9130

2 ай бұрын

@@TheR41N no thats trolling 🤣🤣

@Grnademaster

2 ай бұрын

BM, enh, spriest, and resto druid will be my mains.

Im playing cata since it’s released till nowadays and i can tell you 10/25 raids tier lists will be different. 25 / Tank DK/Bear ( pala and war total bullshit) Heal (Paladin God / Rsham / Disc) the most important part for healers are CDs most common comp ( 2 hpala 2 rsham 1 disc rotate the cd and you can stay afk as healer) For dps nothing new half raid will be Fmage/Awar 10 raids its all about buffs , so Bdk/Feral , Hpal/Disc , Ret , Awar , Sp, Fmage , Ele , Affli. ( all healers specs are good for 10 ) few specs that cant get slot ( udk, fdk , ench , fury the reason is lack of mobility and didnt provide any exclusive buffs ) Depending on a raid comp may change 1-2 slots like Hunters first 2 patches . Any dps can perform well in 25man . The last important thing 10 man raids is burst , 25 man execute Hardest specs to perform ( Sp Affli Boomy Hpriest - 99% of players on this specs will dps like a tank ) for normal difficulty you can play any comp you want. Dont forget we are running 4.3.4 patch and my opinion is based on it

isnt sub rogue S-Tier for pvp AND pve?

cool vid

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

not cool vid

Affliction is top dps in cata mate. Nuff said. Ur gonna watch it happen.

is there any word on exact release date yet?

@kaas323

Ай бұрын

If you have not seen yet, May 20, 2024

@kaas323

Ай бұрын

And pre patch April 30

Plenty of people, including yourself, have said that combat should be up higher so instead I'll make the case for sub (although I would at least put com in high A tier over sin or low S tier). You're right in saying that sub is too niche to main however the fights that fit it's niche trivialize the encounter for everyone else. HC t&v you just send a sub rogue to spend most of the fight in the other dimension to kill the adds and the healers will thank you. Conclave of wind you just leave a sub rogue on Rohash's platform for the whole fight so you only have to 2 heal rather than 3 heal. HC morchok sub is super useful for taking the stomp mechanic with the tank thanks to feint. Hagara you send a sub rogue to a crystal before anyone else w/o a healer since they can cloak the ice wall or shadowstep a crystal once the wall passes through it. HC spine a sub rogue who knows how to time their dagger stacks for tendon burst will gap every other spec. And those are just the fights where sub specifically can make the encounter easier. If were just talking dps numbers then sub does very well in the latter half of hc firelands (as well as com, more so than sin). Also since sub and com both only need 8% melee hit cap swapping between the two is very simple for the multi target fights. Oh and as much as I enjoy fdk over unh, if the tier list is meant to be consistent with itself then frost should in a similar position to fury (maybe 1 tier above it since the dmg over the xpac is better) because similar to arms why would you ever not just play unh? Unh does way more dmg (esp once they get gurthalak) and have AMZ.

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

this is a silly comment lol

@alexcrow332

2 ай бұрын

​@moxlolol what a response.

Can we get a tank and healer comparison as well

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

Tank and healers are going to be combined into one video as my next video. Appreciate you watching!

@ahetzel9054

2 ай бұрын

Tank list goes as follows : Blood DK is #1 tank whole expansion. Feral tank is second. Prot Pallys and warriors aren't going to be sought after. You might get into a raid, but only as an OT so you'll need a DPS off spec for many fights that a BDK will solo tank. At least this was the case on a private server I've been playing on.

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

@@ahetzel9054 this is pretty accurate

@TheR41N

2 ай бұрын

@@ahetzel9054 If You can solo BDK, you solo with bdk, if you can't: main bdk, off bear, if you don't have bdk+bear: you can do any combo of bdk/bear/ppal(even double of the same spec), if you can't find 2 tanks from the pool of bdk/bear/ppal: look harder, don't try to be brave, by using paper pwar. Ppal is not bad and will work for any encounter as main or off, but... bdk+feral is always a better choice.

We Ganna live that Sub life! Y'all can parse on aoe, we parse fun!

You dropped the ball on Sub Rogue They will be top 4 top 5 DPS in cata.

Innervate is trash for others besides self cast in cata...

Where did you get your data?

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

A mix between logs from private servers and what I remember from playing it live, but the private servers have min-maxed things as far as possible. But that only pertains to when I say "numerically", I factored utility heavily into these rankings which isn't necessarily data

@momentofenlightenment6004

2 ай бұрын

played cata back in the day and many years in private servers, I think this tierlist is pretty accurate. maybe destro a tad bit higher but yea, very accurate

Both specs I wanted to play (fury and MM) are F, that suckssssss

@moxlolol

22 күн бұрын

Play what you want to play, MM and fury are viable they just don't bring any utility and are out DPS'd by other specs. But they're still fine, you can clear all content with any spec.

Cat will be Tier S

I actually don’t understand why content creators seem to think that MM Hunter is F-tier. It’s always the same buzz-words. As someone who cleared HC Sinestra on MM I can fully put to rest the myths about MM being unplayable. The truth is that Survival a noticeably better for fights that require AoE burst to kill adds. But the difference isn’t as big as most think. MM’s single target on most boss fights is on par with Survival if not at times stronger.

How is MM bad in Cata it was the top spec for Cata the first go around i know cuz i was SV and was mocked .. MM will be closer to SV than you think

@DannyD1199

Ай бұрын

That's how I remembered it. MM was a big DPS hose.

@Perry2186

Ай бұрын

@DannyD1199 yeah it more came down to what spec you ither liked or just played better as

@moxlolol

Ай бұрын

Because after 15 years people got smarter, and also we're going to be on patch 4.3. Over a decade of private server data is much more reliable than anecdotal memories of playing 15 years ago on 720p monitors and integrated graphics

@Perry2186

Ай бұрын

@@moxlolol anecdotal? My info came from the Hunters Union from Frostheim himself

@brandonkruse6412

29 күн бұрын

@@Perry2186 MM was overall worse than Survival however it’s not anywhere close to unplayable like creators seem to be saying. Some of the top guilds back in original Firelands stacked MM hunters due to their high mobility and interaction with T12 set bonus. (Private servers for 4.3 are notoriously jank and unreliable due to small community)

Destro has shadow and flame…Its literally in the destruction tree and one of the first few talents they take. Also enhance is A tier IMO but whateves. This is patch 4.3. Enhance has great sustained dps, solid burst with short CDs, tons of versatility, instant cast healing rains, totems, AP buff, blood lust, best interrupt, zero mana issues, nature resistance via healing stream totem which you can only get via hunters losing dps. They have great mobility, some of if not the highest aoe dps in the game, and great survivability due to instant cast heals, mail armor, and two defensive cooldowns that have a very short CD. Also to date of all Classic releases/expansions private servers have literally never been accurate. So basing it off that is next to useless. We’ve all seen this same shit with TBC and WotLK private servers. Every single tier list you look up people have different placements yet no one not one single person actually knows the outcome yet as it’s not yet released. I’ve seen these tier lists for every expansion since Classic launched for enhance always being placed mid tier. Yet I’ve been a realm rank 1-5 enhance shaman on Mankrik (largest pve server) and top 100 world depending on the phase since launch. I’m almost always top 3 dps if not often top. I had to stop playing a week after ICC launch as I got sick and had surgery and just got to start back couple weeks ago. Prior to that tho I was top 5 every phase with almost all 99s parses across the board with an average of 98.7. Nightstorm is my shamans name if curious. Mostly just play what you enjoy regardless of this list or any other as that’s what you will perform the best on. The balance is good enough that if you put the time and effort into your class you will out perform the vast majority regardless of what you are playing. Also 10m raiding is huge in Cata which leaves a lot less room for buffs and strong individual CDs where hybrid classes can really shine and help fulfill a lot of what’s needed.

@moxlolol

24 күн бұрын

I prefaced this video by saying I took utility and burst damage into consideration, and I also said that there's plenty of room for all of these specs to go up or down a tier. You wrote out a thesis about enhancement shamans being in A tier when I put them in B, I don't know why you think I put them in F tier or something. They're incredibly strong and I could 100% see them in A tier throughout cataclysm. I think people take these placements a bit too seriously

Enhance was cracked. I played it the entire expansion and left everyone in the dust every raid fight. It wasn't even close. 🤙🏽🤙🏽

@meteor23meteorit39

Ай бұрын

Hello man, do you have a discord? I would like to talk with skilled enha shaman player, i plán to play it in cata now and i need a bit of advice

When does cata come out?

@jamrocks464

Ай бұрын

21.05.24

Ele might not bring multiple unique things, but one spec bringing so much is crazy strong along with doing good DPS. cope to say it's not best A tier or low S tier

Back in the day we had 3 Paladins - Ret - Prot - Holy 1 Shaman - Resto 1 DK - Blood 1 Priest - Shadow 1 Warlock - Affliction 1 Mage - Fire 1 Hunter - Survival 1 Rogue - Assassination Managed to clear all content on HC What i always remember being the prot paladin was the Shadow priest always being top dps, and Hunter/Warlock second. The others did stuff too i just remember the Priest and Warlock always trying to out DPS each other. Good times.

shadow is easy S, and is 2nd in dps only to rogue on most fights

Ret should be S-tier IMO

Maybe one day Affliction demo will be loved. But i love this spec :D Even if everyone says it's low dps.

Your assessment of rogue is completely wrong. Anyway I played Cata back in the day with legendary daggers and when Dragon soul hits - Sub and Combat are both the highest performing dps specs in that tier. Minus sometimes being beaten by a fire mage or Survival hunter.

Is this for PVP? Cause I played combat rogue during original cata. And it was easily the best DPS class for rogue in raid.

Ret gang

Frost mage depends, for raiding of course not but in dungeons it does good damage and has insane control. IMO frost mage overall is the best spec of any class for dungeons.

When I look up tier lists or guides for WoW I always pick the channel with the lowest sub count. All the other big grifter WoW channels have no idea what they’re talking about and spend like 2 minutes of their 10 minute video on their Underwear sponsor

Can u do a phase dps tier list

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

I might do one for phase 1 and see how that goes

Mm was good if you knew how to play it so you're rank is wrong

As for utility of SV; you neglect to mention that all hunters can cover almost any buff your raid is lacking via the pet. This is HUGE and yet another reason why every group wants one.

shadow priest is s tier

is he kidding ? :D Marksman is #1 DPS in T11 & 12 :D

@moxlolol

4 күн бұрын

I'm not kidding, as you can tell by the fact there's 0 MM hunters to be seen thus far and there won't be going forward. Surv is better in every way

UH as S - tier, while combat rogue benig C , lmao. Strongly disagree. Combat is easily A.

So this is pve tierlists and a lot of asuumptions i feel like

@dominic2196

2 ай бұрын

No assumptions needed. Plenty of resources and videos from cataclysm to take info from.

data please

Haha yeah, arms is better in every and single way because they nerfed the shit out of fury warriors with 0 logic. I hope they are not gonna do same mistake in cata classic and fix that stupid nerf they placed over fury warrior. Why would they keep the spec in game at all tho?

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

Happens in every version of WoW, there's always gonna be meme specs. I mean, I put it in F, but you CAN raid in Fury. All of the content is solved, fury does fine dps especially in dragon soul. it's just not going to blow anyone away and you won't be competitive in terms of the high tier specs.

@SoulHero777

Ай бұрын

It's just ridiculous considering fury is pure dps spec. I'm really hoping they get buffed like ret/feral did in wotlk. I can see blizzard buffing fury just for how much hate they get

ELE is 10000% S.. I dont know what this tierlist is hahaha

bro dead wrong about hunter, i cant believe you put bm above mm😂😂

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

They're both trash compared to survival and BM at least provides buffs MM is about as useless of a spec in Cata as you can get

@kierangraham2724

2 ай бұрын

@@moxlolol not at all, mm is so solid, barely behind survival if not on par

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

@@kierangraham2724 you can barely even find logs for MM hunter on Cata private servers. Not only are you wrong, you're beyond wrong and when Cata comes out and every survival hunter is doing 10-20% more damage than you every single time you can come back and try to convince me again. They provide no utility, mediocre damage, and were only played because it's easy to press 3-4 buttons and pretend like you're doing good damage. This isn't 2011 anymore, you won't compete as MM

My SV Heart is pretty happy about MM still being trash in pve.

@H-D-D

2 ай бұрын

Are you still able to use lesser ranks of spells in cata? If so surv will be even better with the macro found wotlk

@darylsdog9521

2 ай бұрын

@@H-D-Dnah spell ranks are no longer a thing

Combat rogue is completely wrong.

Just another list for pve players.

Sub is simming 31k dps. My mans did no homework.

sub rogue is better than assas in all single target fights.....

“Definitive” 😂😂

Meme tierlist

I'll put this tier list in the F tier, right next to the comment replies, and then the good ole 'private server data' right behind that

No, is not accurate at all. The syncs already display your argument and list as completely wrong regarding, benefits, usefulness and dps meters. A mutilate with Ledaries will be together with mage S klass. Combat and assassin Rogue will be A as well.😂

unholy dk's are pvp only, they rather suck in pve vs frost dk. but in pvp there is nothing that can out preform a unholy dk. sure a unholy has high burst dps, but overall their dps is lower then frost in pve. Oh demon locks should be put in ss/sss tier, only spec/class that and solo most raid boss's that don't require a taunt rotation.

This game is dead

@Ryan-ol3hr

2 ай бұрын

Yet here you are

I remember being top, or second depending on the fight, in Hc FL with MM hunter back in the day. Is the data for this from original or private servers?

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

private servers MM is a waste of a raid spot

@Erati243

2 ай бұрын

@@moxlolol Ahh where did the bad hunter hurt you? Poor thing.

@moxlolol

2 ай бұрын

@@Erati243 survival is one of the best specs in the game, but continue coping

@naejimba

2 ай бұрын

MM was the go to spec for much of Cata, but eventually with nerfs and buffs to SV it landed in a bad spot. Classic and private servers will be going off of the 4.3 patch, so MM is only really used in PvP.

@andrecardoso6941

2 ай бұрын

MM hunters were insane pre nerfs but Cata Classic will run on 4.3.4 patch.

These tier lists are cringe and toxic to the community... well done on ruining the experience for thousands of players.

@moxlolol

Ай бұрын

The irony of this is hilarious

@cadirgemont5900

Ай бұрын

@moxlolol irony ? Better reconsider the word choice there.. you're coming up with some bullshit list that doesn't take into account the skill of the player. Just like these stupid mid content lists did for rogue players in season 2 of SOD.. you're a mid at best creator bringing a toxic element to the community because a tier list is all you have because you lack any interesting content on the game .. so in short you're the equivalent of grey quest item rewards of "content" creator's 😂😂😂