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@SnasDeSnas

Жыл бұрын

good question

@leeum20real

Жыл бұрын

you could put 50 raid ads back to back and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between any of them

@acnhsasha3085

6 ай бұрын

@@leeum20realfact

FUN LARRY FACT: Larry Lurr has defeated the #1 ranked player in tournament play in every single smash game except for smash 64!

@stevepierce227

Жыл бұрын

So we would say Larry's worst iteration is 64, and smash 4 would be his best.

@sheridan5175

Жыл бұрын

#1 ranked player at the time?

@drakejoshofficialyoutubech5569

Жыл бұрын

When did he beat the #1 Melee player and who was it that he beat?

@MeesterTweester

Жыл бұрын

@@sheridan5175 Yup

@sheridan5175

Жыл бұрын

@@MeesterTweester who was it?

Watching the Brawl footage is so weird. It reminds me of trying to fight in dreams but your body is too weak to move.

@ABC-ik9vj

Жыл бұрын

And you're fighting mk being ganon

@Wienerdog5

Жыл бұрын

r/new sentence

@theblackbasketball

Жыл бұрын

The dream part hit me a little too hard.

@titushoward5648

Жыл бұрын

I feel that way when I dream too.

@simanolastname2399

Жыл бұрын

I imagine this is what watching all other smash games will be like once I get better at melee

Kirby was good in 1 game and has been suffering ever since

@The0-2DemonKing

Жыл бұрын

Deserved. Hate him.

@gv82089

Жыл бұрын

Sakurai is a strict father

@h8thegr8

Жыл бұрын

Kirby is a decent mid-tier in Brawl. Make that two games.

@shadownite3378

Жыл бұрын

@@h8thegr8 if you're not top 10 in brawl, you were trash (or at least not solo viable). That's just how brutal that game was

@h8thegr8

Жыл бұрын

@@shadownite3378 Kirby vs. Falco (assuming he got his powerup) is seen by a large majority of the modern Brawl community as an even matchup. And his Of course he gets walled out by MK/ICs/Olimar, but his general matchup spread against the other characters above are a minus 1, or even, which is not as bad as you may think.

Crazy how Brawl is the worst iteration of like half the characters in the Smash series.

@illford6921

Жыл бұрын

yeah but i miss some brawl characters. DDD and Marth my beloved

@emanueltheodorus1056

Жыл бұрын

Best for Meta Knight (obviously), Ice Climbers, King Dedede, Diddy Kong, and Snake tho.

@SeriousStriker

Жыл бұрын

@@emanueltheodorus1056 Pre-patch Smash 4 Diddy > Brawl Diddy. Otherwise you're right about the rest.

@Finnmos

Жыл бұрын

Most likely, because in brawl, you were either viable or completely useless, and there's very little in-between

@monchete9934

Жыл бұрын

And many of them are bad because either they are vulnerable to chaingrabs, are combo characters in a game where everyone is on PMLG state, they have a bad MU against Meta Knight or they are just horrible (Ivy, Ganon)

64 Kiby's up-tilt was the original Brawl Snake up-tilt.

@aesthetic-moon-wave

Жыл бұрын

Or the other way around

@illford6921

Жыл бұрын

@@aesthetic-moon-wave no its the right way

Extremely long hitstun will go a long way to make everyone viable in 64, it’s no wonder it was a 5 stock game

@ABC-ik9vj

Жыл бұрын

Link and luigi are trash

@TheBadBuffalo

Жыл бұрын

And they’ll still kill you on hit

@Mr__Jack

Жыл бұрын

@@ABC-ik9vj Link and Luigi may be the worst, but they still have things they can do. Luigi’s combo game is fantastic in a game where having a good combo game is highly rewarded. Link honestly wouldn’t even be bad if it wasn’t for his dogshit recovery (same with Ness). Considering he’s the only zoner in the game, he can actually get away with camping you out with bombs. Everybody in 64 can put in work, even if some characters are better than others. It’s not like Melee where half the cast is unusable garbage, with most being outright unfinished (Mewtwo, Game and Watch, Ness), and you have to be a literal God to do well with any character below 7th or so.

@tytonwiseman7995

Жыл бұрын

​@@Mr__Jack don't forget Roy, he wasnt finished in melee either, which is sad

@ABC-ik9vj

Жыл бұрын

@@Mr__Jack lmao you're telling me bombs that take 3 seconds to take and slow af movement are a good proyectile?

the fact there is a worse link than 64 link is rough

@btf_flotsam478

Жыл бұрын

He does put Smash 64 on a pedestal, however. I can imagine him diving into it and wondering why he's losing stocks so fast.

@leaffinite3828

3 ай бұрын

Im suspect of brawl link being worse than 64 but idrk. Also 64 dk sucks too, but he has regrabs and brawl dk gets regrabbed so i get that one.

I appreciate the 64 knowledge, as a 64 pro, alot of people who are unfamiliar with the game automatically think the lower tiers are unusable (like other smash games) you perfectly explained that even tho they are lower on the list, they are still a power house. Not many people know or understand that, thanks for such a great video

@thejedisonic67

Жыл бұрын

Aside from perhaps Link and Luigi the other characters do stand some of a chance against the high tiers from experience

@HKip

9 ай бұрын

​@@thejedisonic67Isai convinced me 64 Luigi isnt as bad as i thought.

The thing with Fox, is that at the end of Brawl's life, he was climbing the tiers. If Brawl kept going, maybe he could have still ended up in high tier. Just speculation of course, but hey, it's all we can do with Brawl now.

@illford6921

Жыл бұрын

People very much still play brawl. Its small but its definitely active

@plumebrise4801

Жыл бұрын

@@illford6921 No.

@AirMadeKat

Жыл бұрын

@@plumebrise4801 Wdym

@angrypepe7615

10 ай бұрын

I'd say brawl is still clearly his worst. He's regarded as a top tier in every other smash game.

Idk Larry brawl jigglypuff was the worst thing ever created on a screen. In smash 4 at least she can spam rest out of bayo combos

@SeriousStriker

Жыл бұрын

Smash 4 Puff might've been buffed from Brawl, but she was lower on the tier list then Brawl Puff. So it's a 50/50 tbh. They're both garbage.

@the_bookworm8281

Жыл бұрын

SSB4 Puff is definitely the worst Puff. Brawl Puff at least still possesses great aerial frame data, down air trip -> Rest which has a generous 50% chance of occurring, and is in a game where most characters can be trivially edgeguarded by its wall of pain. SSB4 Puff while it definitely gained more power, is hurt immensely by numerous frame data nerfs (particularly to landing lag), losing out on down air trip -> Rest with its new KO combos being more situational, and being in a game where recoveries are extremely strong and more difficult to edgeguard across the board. SSB4 Puff does have some stuff over Brawl Puff, but in the end, it is choosing which pile of turd is the stinkiest.

@MeesterTweester

Жыл бұрын

Yeah while she was last on the tier list in Smash 4, she's better than her Brawl version, and actually had results

@LordPhilipJFry

Жыл бұрын

The removal of edgehogging REALLY hurt her because it made gimping nearly impossible. Literally the only thing she was good at and it only worked against a few characters with really bad recoveries. That's what makes her worse in Smash 4.

@illford6921

Жыл бұрын

​@@MeesterTweester i mean she did lose all of her excellent ledge play

this is a great idea, I had this conversation lots of times^^ I agree with pretty much all of these, brawl wasn't a nice game for combo heavy characters

@Brahyan.

Жыл бұрын

I’ve always wanted someone to make a video like this glad someone finally did it!!

@illford6921

Жыл бұрын

For grapplers and zoners it was pretty good. DDD, Snake, ICs, ZSS, Marth (Kinda) were all good

@lapplandkun9273

Жыл бұрын

You mean brawl wasn' a competitive game. Imagine trying to make a sequel game that was intended to be casual for competitive

The crazy part about this: You aren’t wrong. Brawl sucked for a lot of these characters.

Fun Jigglypuff fact, in Brawl, if she runs out of jumps, she will spam Pound until she hits the blast zone. Pound’s vertical gain was reduced going into Brawl, so you have to listen to her all the way down.

Keep this series going, maybe combine both Melee and Brawl if you have too

Kirby's best and worst version is so clear-cut lol. Need Smash 6 to revamp Kirby and make him top tier again!

@SillyRyemoment

Жыл бұрын

What’s smash 6??

@GlitchanBlack

Жыл бұрын

Clearly you haven't watched Copperhead.

@SillyRyemoment

Жыл бұрын

@@GlitchanBlack No. I haven’t. What is it?

Man brawl was goofy as hell. I wonder how many character were at their worst in that game.

@emanueltheodorus1056

Жыл бұрын

Mario, DK, Link, Samus, Yoshi, Fox, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff (arguably), Peach, Zelda (arguably), Ganondorf, Pokemon Trainer, Sonic (not bad tho), ROB, and Wolf comes to mind.

@cloudshines812

Жыл бұрын

@@emanueltheodorus1056 Lucas and Pit too

I'd argue Ness' best iteration is his NTSC-J regional variant in Smash 64. He has ridiculously disproportionate KO power with all of his smash attacks dealing 19% minimum, Up Air dealing 17% with huge knockback and PK Thunder 2's hitbox staying out for all 28 frames of the move's animation and making him invincible (not intangible, this makes him tank incoming attacks) for 17 frames. Not to mention the insane presence of his DJC.

This video was sick! Hopefully you make videos on the Melee and Brawl newcomers best iterations!

Very interesting watch! Would love to see you do this for Melee and Brawl characters

Sick video Larry. Looking forward to the next one

I think yoshi is better in ultimate since it took like 20 years to develop the meta for him in melee

Cool idea! Looking forward to melee newcomers

Thank god they made BOTW Link good. From the only Zelda game where you can jump freely, it makes sense that he has good mobility. His broken nair also makes sense, because you can upgrade armor in that game.

Great Video, can't wait for the Melee Characters!

I’m still shocked that they somehow managed to make Jigglypuff worse than she was in Brawl

@the_bookworm8281

Жыл бұрын

They fought to themselves: ok, we fixed the main issue of her moves being unsafe on hit and gave her more overall KO power, so lets give the character largely air-game focused egregious amounts of landing lag on its aerials. What could go wrong? Also doesn't help that recoveries have been heavily buffed across the board in SSB4, so its main draw of being able to gimp opponents is nowhere near as applicable in SSB4 than in previous games. Losing down air 50% chance to trip -> Rest hurts it a lot as well.

@TheTrixster690

Жыл бұрын

and the funny part was that she was BUFFED.

this was a really sick video, great work larry

I think you should include 2nd best or honorable mentions when they are good in 2 games

This is an awesome idea for a series

Bro why did brawl do most of the og characters so dirty?

@SonicTheCutehog

Жыл бұрын

The slower engine and introduction of hitstun cancelling

I like how you used alpharads iconic luigi footage for the luigi segment

Hope you're making one for all the characters.

We need more videos like this Larry!

Might as well guess the melee characters while waiting for that video: 13. Peach Best: Melee Worst: Brawl 14. Bowser Best: Sm4sh Worst: Melee 15. Ice Climbers Best: Brawl Worst: Ultimate 16. Sheik Best: Melee Worst: Brawl 17. Zelda Best: Ultimate Worst: Brawl 18. Dr. Mario Best: Melee Worst: Ultimate 19. Pichu Best: Ultimate Worst: Melee 20. Falco Best: Melee Worst: Sm4sh 21. Marth Best: Melee Worst: Ultimate 22. Young Link Best: Ultimate Worst: Melee 23. Ganondorf Best: Melee Worst: Brawl 24. Mewtwo Best: Sm4sh Worst: Melee 25. Roy Best: Ultimate Worst: Melee 26. Mr. Game and Watch Best: Ultimate Worst: Melee

@spookyboo4074

Жыл бұрын

I think Peach is better in Ultimate than in melee but i agree with you in everything else

@3eve0n

Жыл бұрын

@@spookyboo4074 yeah that was a tough one she's really good in both.

@emanueltheodorus1056

Жыл бұрын

Bowser's best iteration is Ultimate no doubt. He may not have up throw into up air kill cheese like he used to but everything else about him is just straight up better. Fire breath was way better, side special is ridiculous, the frame three jumpsquat tremendously helped the mobility on what is used to be one of the sluggish character in game. Uncontested best superheavy in this game.

@G0blinM0de

9 ай бұрын

@@spookyboo4074it’s close but melee down smash makes it… not so close

Awesome video. LARRY LEGEND!!!

Will you do this for the Melee & Brawl characters too?

This video made me really realize kirby never catches a break in smash

@GlitchanBlack

Жыл бұрын

Let's see... Kirby in Brawl was a mid-tier, and Kirby in Ultimate got buffed in *_7 UPDATES_* (1.1, 2.0, 3.0, 6.0, 7.0, 8.0, and the final update). Also, if you look at Copperhead's Melee content for Kirby... yeah, Kirby can catch a break in Smash.

Everyone sucked in brawl lol

@Superemie401

6 ай бұрын

Well… almost everyone.

1:28 skip ad

It would have been cool to have PM/+ as honorable mentions of certain characters

@666blaziken

Жыл бұрын

most of the characters are the best in their PM state

@erickgranados6522

Жыл бұрын

@@666blaziken yeah, that's why it would have been cool to see what they improved to get them there, like the M2 float

@blocks4857

Жыл бұрын

PM isn't official tho

@erickgranados6522

Жыл бұрын

@@blocks4857 you are 100% correct, that's why I mentioned it as honorable mentions, not as part of the rank itself

@raghavpatel720

Жыл бұрын

Ganondorf is a perfect example of being the best he's ever been in PM, not bad but not top tier

Wehn di you hit so fast 100k followers? But Congrats to it

Banger vid as always

Ain’t no way I’m watching this for the first time and hearing the outro music be the Team Galactic HQ theme and I’m playing Platinum while watching and bring in the Tram Galactic HQ. What a coincidence

good video idea larry

Continue this series!

Pikahu's "worst" iteration is already better than most, which is impressive to say

Me and my friend one day had the same idea and talked amongst ourselves for all characters

This is a very nice idea!

you should continue this series for characters with 3 or more smash appearances

Ain't no way this dude saw 64 link and Samus and went "yeah these guys are playable"

@Migota_

Жыл бұрын

Brawl link was something else bro. I do think that 64 DK is worse than his brawl generation

@mrgameandmusic

Жыл бұрын

@@Migota_ nah, 64 DK actually has grab release cheese that requires a frame perfect roll and has actual combo routes on the top tiers. He does have shit neutral but his Bair is an actual menace, fair being hard to sour spot and dair being a consistent and very active spike makes him a solid and functional character

@blocks4857

4 ай бұрын

At least in 64, link could do stuff unlike in brawl where you had an ass recovery and couldn't do anything

If this series continues, I'm curious what characters would have Ultimate considered their worst iteration? Off the top of my head: Sheik (having her damage hit like that really sucks, combined with her strength in most of her other appearances) Ice Climbers (No practical infinites, and the fact you can screw over their recovery by body blocking Nana should've been patched imo) Meta Knight (Debatable between Ult and 4, but his ladder combos losing consistency is why I put him here) Diddy Kong (arguably not if you include the infinite that got patched out, but even then it's not like he's particularly bad in any of his appearances) Snake (definitely debatable, but the debate is basically Land Mine and bigger Up Tilt vs faster Nikita and universal jumpsquat) [Placeholder Slot for a Brawl vet I'm probably forgetting] Greninja (Insert meme) Duck Hunt (Air dodging out of up-b is nice and all, but Clay Shooting got a bit screwy and hard to get rid of if you miss, which makes Can harder to use) Robin (Again, hella debatable. Arc Thunder got gutted, but Arc Fire does the job now. Jumpsquat helps mobility and setups, but Levin Sword isn't available at the start so it's a lot harder to keep people out initially. I personally like him more in Ult, but it's a fair call if you disagree since Checkmate got reduced). Little Mac (I personally think he's way better in Ultimate due to the engine changes, no side-b freefall, canceling neutral b, and KO Punch poking platforms. But I can see the arguments the other way, like only 1 side b per airtime even after hit and down tilt not being a free 30% delete button with ko online. Faster jumpsquat also makes it easier to escape him) Ryu (RIPyu, Rage Shoryu doesn't delete stocks under 50, and universal jumpsquat makes it a lot easier for the cast to bully him) Cloud, Corrin, Bayonetta (Got their DLC passes revoked. Their moves are now mostly fair, while they had their existing weaknesses expanded due to the expanded roster having tools for them). If you count Small Miis for some reason, then uh, sure? They're here too.

@emanueltheodorus1056

Жыл бұрын

Definitely Ice Climbers, Marth, Meta Knight, Diddy Kong, Villager, Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, and Bayonetta. Sheik is worse in Brawl, with her power significantly worse than Melee and also poor endurance. You generally never go Sheik when you have ZSS or Meta Knight. Little Mac is definitely worse in Smash 4 by far, it's just that Ultimate's aerial favoring engine didn't help him shine at all. He has way better recovery options as a whole. Greninja is overall better in Ultimate IMO.

@researchinbreeder

Жыл бұрын

@@emanueltheodorus1056 fair, for some reason I misremembered Sheik still being good in Brawl bc the idea of sheik being outright bad feels incorrect ig. Mac I 100% agree is actually better in Ultimate, but I wanted to cover ppl with weird opinions. And Greninja just doesn't feel like it got anything in the transition, while losing footstool true combos. Then again I don't play the character so maybe the engine itself is just that much better for it. Also, not sure how Marth slipped through my list. Mans got gutted in Ultimate. Villager feels almost identical to me when I'm fighting them, and since the characters I tend to play (Samus, Lucina, Ganondorf) are all explicitly better than they were in 4, I just chalked it up to Villager being stronger too.

I was surprised to see 64 Falcon as the best version. I always thought the melee one was the best.

Great video

Still can’t believe they took away DK’s pimp slap.

Great video.

Brawl: I am about to end this men's whole career

Anybody else remember trifoce tier in brawl? I miss the game su much.

Can't wait for Melee version! 😊

secure the bag goat

Brawl Link is trash. But I still think 64 Link is worse.

@ABC-ik9vj

Жыл бұрын

That's obvious, worse recover than mac is terrible

@henryreturns1397

Жыл бұрын

Link on 64 you can do tricks with bombs and boomerang and have insane strings and weird recoveries. Brawl on the other hand due to the cast been bigger and boomerang not having a hit box and "one sided MUs" , it cant win. On 64 Link can have a glimpse of hope because eventhough hit stunts are insane , each character can zero to death each other but Link can run away with the lead due to projectiles kzread.info/dash/bejne/X51szqdqo9SwYco.html Here Isai winning a tournament with Link in 64 , super hype to watch While in Brawl .... well you have Toon Link lmao

@ABC-ik9vj

Жыл бұрын

@@henryreturns1397 link on 64 can't recover, on brawl he can. The worst is pretty obvious

@playstationarusu

Жыл бұрын

​@@ABC-ik9vj He may not be able to survive a back throw at ledge but he controls space better than most 64 characters and can use his spacing tools to set up true 0 to death combos, or just nickel and dime you until you die to a strong disjointed sword move. There are other characters who similarly can't recover but Link has better onstage presence than them.

8:06 "He has good kill power..." Now I'm wondering if people aren't playing a hacked version of this game, because people seem to regurgitate how broken he is, when in the version I've played, he literally has zero kill options.

small question is this considering the actual character or the character´s place in the meta of X game?

Larry “Legend” Lurr Back at it again with another BANGER!

actually samus is really good in brawl because it gives you the option to not play samus

super cool video idea. reminds me of falseswipegaming’s smash content

Thanks!

Haven't watched prediction: *Brawl is going to be most of these characters worst game performance.*

3:50 funfact: the probably best brawl dk player, ook beat mikehaze who was one of the best players while mikehaze was using dedede. Mikehaze mained marth, didn't know how to do the infinite, and was on green greens but that doesn't matter

1:46 NAX THE GOAT

64 Pikachu is among the 2 most dominant characters in the entire series

Next time I'd put the ad a little later in the vid since it'll help retention :D

You know that now you have to do all the rest, right? Right??? 👁👁

@emanueltheodorus1056

Жыл бұрын

Meh you only need to do up until Smash 4 anyways

Brawl sounds like a nightmare lol

Bruh the fact that 9/12 worst is brawl shows how bad that game was I still love it and it’s good casual game but competitively it’s trash the only viable characters were the newcombers plus ice climbers

This is the video I've been looking for so long! Please make a part 2 for me to sub!

they have done my boy kirby dirty for longer that it should be

I wanna see more of these with other smash characters

I find it interesting that the two games Yoshi are not competitive in are the ones where the whole community just gave up altogether, Brawl and Smash 4

i would like to make the argument that ness while in theory better in ult had better tournament results in smash4

I would argue that sm4sh pika is worse than melee pikachu because of pikachu struggling to kill in 4 as well as less movement options. In melee, pika has chaingrabs against spacies, a frame 3 nair that can kill early and combi depending on DI, and an upair that spikes.

Yoshi’s best could be Melee. With one player, he’s widely agreed to be top 8, and many pros put him in top 6.

I’d say DK is worse in 64 than in Brawl. Haven’t played a lot of Brawl but I’m fairly experienced with 64. 64 is a combo fest for every character, but you can get free 0 to deaths on DK, he’s slow as hell, and doesn’t even have a good combo game himself. Edit: commented that before watching the whole video, and I have to say fair point. Although I would say DK and Luigi might be exceptions, that’s only because I haven’t really played Brawl much in a competitive sense. Great video overall!

Keep in mind: Fox's Brawl showing still resulted in a C-tier placement. Outside of Brawl, his performance has consistently been A-tier or better. Best competitive Smash fighter of all time.

I kind of disagree on Worst link and Yoshi - because at least all of their moves in Brawl, are actually working and functional, unlike in case of 64 and Melee, where they get moves that do not work at all

I'm writing this before watching the video, but these are my guesses: Bests Mario: Smash 4 DK: Smash 4 Link: Ultimate Samus: Ultimate Yoshi: Smash 64 Kirby: Smash 64 Fox: Melee Pikachu: Smash 64 Luigi: Ultimate Ness: Ultimate Captain Falcon: Melee Jigglypuff: Melee Worsts Mario: Brawl DK: Smash 64 Link: Smash 64 Samus: Brawl Yoshi: Brawl Kirby: Melee Fox: Ultimate Pikachu: Melee Luigi: Smash 64 Ness: Melee Captain Falcon: Brawl Jigglypuff: Smash 4 Edit after watching the video: I got a lot of the predictions correct, with few differences. I'm interested is seeing videos like this for the Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4 characters. This was very interesting to watch.

Great vid. I've thought about exact concept a bunch and agree with a majority of your takes. Pika by far the best overall and imo Link the worst.

9:47 Luigi is often considered to be the worst character in smash 64, it has to suck so much in brawl to be considered the worst iteration of the character, poor Luigi .

@alejoperdo174

Жыл бұрын

Brawl's low and bottom tier characters are the stuff of comedy tbh They look so horrendously bad that you can't help but laugh

@mikelpelaez

Жыл бұрын

@@alejoperdo174 Ganondorf and ivysour specially come to mind

I'm gonna have to disagree with Mario being best in 4, but this is a neat concept, cant wait to see the series.

@emanueltheodorus1056

Жыл бұрын

Smash 4 Mario's Down throw into up tilt is free 40% for many characters, also amazing ladder combos (big thing in Smash 4) that allows him to kill anyone freely.

It's like brawl did to everyone what Tekken 5 did to jin

When is the sequel coming out

Best Luigi in my opinion was Ultimate because 0-death grab combo

@raghavpatel720

Жыл бұрын

Smash 4 pre patch Luigi was waaaaay better

One thing I noticed is that some characters are bad in brawl because of how the game panders to casual audiances. The bros can't hit for anything, and Luigis shield looks like a fair trade for the G-00 grab in ultimate, not brawl. Any character that was decent literally got walled by Dedede. And making a trip mechanic on falcon is so cruel.

I want justice for the good boi Kirby

I sooner expected Brawl Puff to be worse than Sm4sh puff but i guess survivability in a game with Brawl Dodge Versus a game with Sm4sh Rage makes all the difference, huh?

cool list

Melee Ness makes me sad

Really wish you'd stay consistent with the order you go on for this. Sometimes you start with the worst interation, then the next one you switch to starting with the best iteration.. it's fine, but a little annoying

What is everyone's main in Smash 64? Mine is Yoshi

@xenot125

Жыл бұрын

Link

@jameslisterthemarthplayer8322

11 ай бұрын

Literally Link despite his recovery.

@foxshinehiyaa3933

10 ай бұрын

Captain falcon and luigi

do more of those

The only position I'd disagree with is ness, he was terrible in melee sure, but he was straight up bottom 1 in 64. In both of them his only good trait is a pretty good punish game, but everyone has a good punish game in 64 while most melee low tiers just don't