The KZread algorithm is an unbalanced encounter.

@DUNGEONCRAFT1

3 жыл бұрын

It is. I cannot figure it out. Talked to Dave over at Nerdarchy. He can't figure it out either.

I'm so glad there's a D&D KZreadr that understands the spirit of Old School D&D

Frequently the complete opposite is great, too: encounters where the PC's way outclass their enemies. They can feel like James Bond or John Wick casually mowing through a horde of goons like complete badasses. Serves as a great contrast for when they go up against that impossible challenge.

@mandodelorian4668

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, sometimes it's nice to let the heroes feel heroic. And I think it helps to show scale as if the enemies are always as strong as, if not stronger than the PC's then what's the point? You might as well name your character Sisyphus then.

@patrickbuckley7259

3 жыл бұрын

It can be a great palette cleanser after a trying adventure to just mow thru some mooks. I try to give my players a breeze encounter from time to time. Ironically I set one up for the party recently that ended up as a doozy as one of the players split off from the party to deliver a message and ended up running into a rival adventuring party I had set ready to ambush the players on their way back down from the mountain they where on. It was intended to be something the party could mow thru after leveling up on the mountain, it ended up being a close call, but an awesome moment for that player in particular.

@willmendoza8498

3 жыл бұрын

Fully agreed. I want the “oh f***” moments to really stand out when I use a vicious unbalanced encounter. By the same token, if they execute a good plan and work together it’s nice for them to feel that sense of accomplishment when they mop the floor with their enemies once in a while

@havokmusicinc

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. My favorite thing about 4e (and honestly, the only thing I liked from the ruleset) was 1hp "minion" enemies who only served to absorb a single hit and die. They make great mook fodder for characters of any level, and the only thing I have to worry about is action economy.

@johnathanrhoades7751

3 жыл бұрын

@@havokmusicinc 4e gave me the concept of combat roles (artillerist, controller, soldier, brute, lurker, skirmisher) and that has completely transformed the way I build combat encounters. That and minions has been what I took from 4e. And some poison and monster mechanics that were cool looking...

This video really captures a lot of what makes your channel awesome 👏🏻

"I don't think of solutions. That's my players job" Great GM advice!

@celebrim1

3 жыл бұрын

No, it's not. I've seen some published works based on this thinking, and they are terrible. The last thing you want to do is create problems which you don't have a solution for yourself, and then hope the players find one you haven't thought of. There is a good chance that if you the DM, a creative and experienced player with all the information, can't think of several different solutions to the problem while you are creating it, that it doesn't have one. And if you don't think it's your job to create problems that have solutions, you are a terrible DM.

@Zirbip

3 жыл бұрын

@@celebrim1 To each their own.

@celebrim1

3 жыл бұрын

@@Zirbip Some things are subjective and some things are not. Presenting the players with a puzzle even you can't solve is objectively bad game mastery. And when you do this as a gate on a rail road in a linear adventure where story stops until the unopenable gate opens, there is no "to each their own" about it. It's just objectively wrong.

@MemphiStig

Жыл бұрын

I think what PDM means is he doesn't create problems that have only one solution, or that are unsolvable, but open-ended challenges which can be solved in whatever way the pcs choose. And that's the opposite of linear rail-roading. And it frees the DM up as well, to accept and adapt to whatever methods the players try.

Had a totally unbalanced encounter last week. I fully expected the characters to run…but…one remembered they had a potion that could possibly do the trick but it required heroic action to succeed! The rogue flew through the air like Michael Jordan for a dunk for the ages! The table erupts in cheers! Epic! Heroic! Unbalanced!

@paulsavas2394

3 жыл бұрын

@Anne O'Nymous they got pummeled! A few went down. No perma-death…but point taken.

@kevingooley9628

3 жыл бұрын

@@paulsavas2394 I don't know, would the party have most likely died if the rogue had failed with the potion?? If so, then it was unbalanced. If the party would have survived, with minimal to moderate damage, regardless of the rogues amazing action, then it would have been balanced.

@willmendoza8498

3 жыл бұрын

In my experience they never run. Even if I have a powerful NPC shout something like "Run, I'll hold them off!" They're always like, nah let's do this! Sometimes it works, and sometimes the new campaign was secretly a one-shot all along...

@tyree9055

3 жыл бұрын

@@willmendoza8498 I've noticed that too... Even outnumbered 30:1 some players think they'll win (and while they slew a few goblins, they died in the end)! Another time I knew the random encounter was totally impossible for the players (they all needed to roll a 20 to even harm the creature). Rather than rerolling it, I thought about it for awhile and decided the creature was just passing through (the middle of their camp at night). It wasn't a predator, but it turned out to be one of the more memorable encounters as everyone tried to figure out what to do about this giant beast tramping through their campsite (arrows bouncing off its carapace, players riding on it's back... 😅). It was an exciting encounter for all involved! 🤣👍

@oz_jones

2 жыл бұрын

@@willmendoza8498 It's human instinct too, kinda. Put a gun to their head and say "surrender, you cannot possibly win", they will tell them to gargle balls 99 times out of a hundred.

42 years of playing and dm'ing D&D, and I've yet to intentionally design a "balanced" encounter. In all that time, I've had lots of character deaths but only 2 TPK's that I recall... and both of those were mainly attributable to player carelessness or outright foolishness. I'm in complete agreement with Prof DM on this one. Make your encounters interesting and plausible given the campaign setting, and you'll be amazed at what your players will overcome and how they go about it!

@krispalermo8133

3 жыл бұрын

PC's walk down a hallway to a room cover in patches of straw. a.) Under a random die roll a patch of straw is covering a shallow hole in the floor and floor spikes and a bear trap. Did the PC's just use their spears to broom the straw away to reveil the floor traps ? Nope, .. ! Result was TPK ! 9th level fighter with max hp fell face first into a bear trap and it closed onto the side of his neck with his forehead set off the pressure plate. His chain mail coif cut the blood flow going to his brain. Since everyone was dealing with their own problems, he just twitch till he pass out. b.) One fell into a floor trap so fast, the others didn't have time to realize how the traps were set up. Why, cause they were 9th level and none of their DM ever set trap up that simple were only parties under 3rd level would bother looking for.

I even created a campaign where the characters literally could not die. None of the encounters were balanced. Based on the player choices, the encounters ranged wildly. And the inability to die was part of the trap they realized they were in. Yes, they became a lot more bold, when they figured out they couldn't die, but they realized before that there was a ticking clock connected to the BBE. They understood that they could loos any conflict, and did not want to waste that time. They also had plenty of mundane fights, which helped them feel as powerful as they were. It was a blast.

Balanced = s predictability, and generally does not force players to consider options other than " *FIGHT!* " It amazes me the number of players that can not fathom an option other than playing until they drop dead, like they're some kind of programmed battle-robot that has no sense of self preservation. But, IMO this also comes from the widespread habit of many modern players to see their characters as a game piece rather than a virtual person. A game piece has no self preservation instincts, a virtual person would.

@soulfirez4270

3 жыл бұрын

I found that was an easy habit to break among my players . I merely rewarded much higher for acting how you believe your player character would react , so unless your a paladin its unlikely you would charge to your death ,and I punish for not following your character motivations .Had a player give themselves the usual edgy loner anti hero type so when that player charged there character into a massivee fight for people they didnt know and no reason to care for , they were a little mift when they recieved almost no xp for barely surviving a fight there character would never have engaged in . This adjusts there risk reward responses.

@AlbertoRodriguez-zb3iu

3 жыл бұрын

It's a system flaw. Xp leveling is really antiquated, character optimization is antiquated too. Both of these are immensely supported by 5e and to top that monsters are really weak compared to other TTRPGS systems. Unless you run milestone leveling games I'm afraid that's all players will think about because it's in the game.

@Arvaniz

3 жыл бұрын

"But, IMO this also comes from the widespread habit of many modern players to see their characters as a game piece rather than a virtual person. A game piece has no self preservation instincts, a virtual person would." That is quite ironic, considering how modern players put than much emphasis on ROLEplaying, and disdain our old beloved dungeon crawls. In their attempt to create a deep character, they forget the basic (and realistic) instinct to... JUST... F***ING... RUN.

@goncalocarneiro3043

3 жыл бұрын

I do agree some people might be like that, but those are usually murder-hobos and nobody likes them. The only other motivations I can even fathom for "typical players of nowadays" to have for only fighting is either hubris, the thought that they are a main characters and cannot die or wrong expectations, the thought that tabletop rpgs are like some videogames and running away is tabboo on a meta level. Frankly, the idea of "game-piece" is something I imagine is way more prevalent in old-school "my character is going to die to a random crit anyways at low level so might as well yolo" players.

@pn2294

3 жыл бұрын

@@AlbertoRodriguez-zb3iu Doesn’t that make it the players’ fault for limiting themselves?

"Attack their equipment and their 3-18 Ability Scores" Excellent advice!

"I just create the conflicts and it's their job to solve them" YES This also leaves a lot of space for the DM to make crazy ideas viable. Player: "Is there a woden stick?" DM: (why would they w-) "Yes, there is!"

The players play more intelligently when there is the threat of death from an unbalanced encounter. It doesn't break down into simply have the PC stand there while the player rolls the dice. My players have learned to have tactics like a SWAT team and a retreat plan. They are always alert at the game table during combat sequences because many times the tide has turned against them in the past so the danger element keeps them engaged. Also, I remind them that running away (as a group) is always an option. Once or twice a player has run away alone leaving the rest of the party behind which is realistic and upsets the rest of the group (DM smiles).

@thomasdahlgren1985

3 жыл бұрын

Watching the video I could not help but think of all the fun possibilities had the players failed in their goal. Maybe they retreated only to have the building blow up anyway and now they have the both the city watch and the crime syndicate (who had already fronted the money for the moon snow) both looking for the culprits. Suddenly a battered party now has a forced mission of 'get out of town until things calm down.'

6:05 "But the alchemists are smart" - I'm not sure if "there are three different ways our hideout could explode with us in it in the next 30 seconds" is usually associated with "smart."

@shirro6031

3 жыл бұрын

Well, to work with highly volatile substances and be successful, I would imagine they are pretty smart. Being interrupted during that process wasn't apart of their plan.

@Dennis-vh8tz

3 жыл бұрын

@@shirro6031 Sure, but a _smart_ villain would still choose a sturdy barn or warehouse over a rickety tower.

@kosherkingofisrael6381

3 жыл бұрын

Why would alchemists who are basically wizards not be in a rickety tower. Also the threat of jihad is a pretty smart move, those alchemists made off with drugs they would have otherwise probably died defending.

@DecidedlyNinja

3 жыл бұрын

Correction: absolutely WILL explode in 30 seconds (5 rounds = 30 seconds) and _could_ explode in 12 seconds.

The difference between a poor and a great unbalanced encounter is that in the second one the DM actually KNOWS how far the balance is. Balancing is a necessary skill, not a goal.

@celebrim1

3 жыл бұрын

In other words, even good unbalanced encounters are balanced encounters - they just have a different balance point in terms of expected resources expended. Or, they are balanced with respect to some strategies and not to others, so that you have to find the right strategy for approaching the encounter and you the GM should give some hints as to what strategies might be easier than others. Hopefully those hints are rather elegant and not crude, but at least the essay's author partially is aware of what he is actually doing when he claims he's creating "unbalanced encounters"

"Link to that in the doobly-doo" My heart skipped a beat! I'd love to see a matt colville / professor DM cross-over!

You highlighted one of biggest mistakes in prepping an adventure. I always seem to worry about the solution more than the problem. I can't begin to count how many ideas I have tossed because of this. I never was a fan of random scenario generators, but now I have a better idea of how it can work.

Balance?! Balance?! We don’t need no stinkin’ balance!

Great episode! I know you've suggested some of these things before, but I found the example here just put your encounter design so clearly into perspective. I managed to turn my game last night from "players cast Teleport to get to the mountain in the distance" into "a tense escape from the big bad guy" (bonus: I've been needing to start having this big bad guy start appearing, so this helped a ton!). I simply turned what the players wanted to do into a prize (use the teleport spell to save time travelling), set a timer that they could teleport at any time but that teleporting before 3+d3 turns were done would reduce the accuracy on the table ("how do you know where a safe place to teleport to on the mountain is?"), and made it that the big bad guy was attacking (and at this point is so far beyond them that trying to fight is suicide). Worked REALLY well, and the players said it had a much more cinematic feel to it. Will definitely be trying to implement this again for many future encounters!

Excellent content. As a Pathfinder GM, I'm awarding you 1 Prestige Point. This is a very thought-inspiring subject you've presented. Where I am puzzled is the fact that your encounter almost guarantees that if the party chooses melee, the most probable outcome is a TPK. That is a type of 'arbitrary decision' by the GM to force a play style away from an obviously unbalanced strategy (combat) and toward the parley/negotiate aspect of play. Some might argue that's problematic to do as the GM. Where attacking players' abiilty scores is concerned, you had better be certain that your players understand the math of their characters before you do that. Nothing chunks up a game worse than having to walk through how their skill modifiers changed by 1 point per two points of STAT. I'm still having some twitching remembering my player who couldn't do that kind of math...

New favourite RPG channel, love your old school play style and I’ve been introducing the all at once initiative and it’s great

Superb insights as usual. I love these vids where you use the current campaign as a backdrop for your tips. You get the knowledge plus you get it in a way that is instantly relatable. Not to mention the glimpses into your campaigns. So glad you have another one now, I missed the monthly updates.

This has got to be the BEST rpg channel on KZread. I keep for Call of Cthulhu & all the advise applies. This channel has improved my ability to run an RPG! Thanks Professor!

Great insight here -- my goal has been to push my DM to create encounters similarly difficult. When the players at our table are saying "I need a long rest after this to get my spells back" in the middle of a combat encounter, even as a player I'm a bit upset in that I don't want a guaranteed progression to end-game. I'd rather the players be thinking "how are we going to survive this?"

Professor Dungeonmaster could have made his alchemists and guards much higher level, able to flatten the party with little effort. Maybe I'm just arguing semantics here, but I would say he 'balanced' his encounter in the sense that the players has at least some chance of prevailing. Most DMs probably just make things a little too easy, which isn't really balanced at all. Maybe the word 'balance' is the stumbling block and we just need a new way to describe encounters.

@WeShallLoveOn

3 жыл бұрын

There's a (actually fairly spacious) area between easy mode and "rocks fall everyone dies" that DMs can play in to make encounters. But I think what professor is trying to say is most people who talk about "balance" seem to think there's a very tiny space and anything outside it is some sortof mistake. But yeah I agree making an encounter impossible is also not fun and eventually boring.

@godsamongmen8003

3 жыл бұрын

@@WeShallLoveOn I think Professor DM and other DMs want the same thing: to give the players a good challenge. He's just less squeamish about it and doesn't mind if characters get killed here and there.

@WeShallLoveOn

3 жыл бұрын

@@godsamongmen8003 yeah I don't disagree. I'm just saying a great deal of discussion around balance typically leads to the opposite, encounters end up either a slog or way too easy. It might be too late to change the balance discussion in the right direction because so many people have already ascribed a strict meaning to the term.

@elreyabeja4539

3 жыл бұрын

He clearly explains what he means by "not balanced". @6:40

@thetimebinder

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly

I think Questing Beast has done the same video. Great minds think alike!

@WouldbeSage

3 жыл бұрын

So?

@duskworkerdron5901

3 жыл бұрын

The concept of combat as sport vs. combat as war is definitely evident here!

Hi PDM Dan, Once again an interesting and useful video. I wholeheartedly agree. For me the fun is in the drama , and the heart of drama is fear , or at least uncertainty of outcome.

In Dungeon World this encounter would be sumamrized like this: Alchemists Couple, Intelligent HP 8, Armor 1, Damage 1d6+2 melee, mid range, ignore armor Instincts: To complete a chemical process Special Qualities: Magical potions and flasks Moves: To throw dangerous flasks, To generate explosions To make the tower unstable. Only 3 numerical values, then text To clarify motivation, actions, reactions and threats. The rest is left to the creativity and whatever sounds like fun/plausible

I dont know how Prof DM. isn't more popular dude, I always come back here as a study to bring something better back to my players.

Great video, I strongly believe in giving players "mindful challenge" rather doing CR math. I also think that big challenges are a lot more fun for everyone if the consequence for huge failure isn't death. Being captured, creating a new villain, etc. are all great ways to keep the players fearful of failure without losing characters. And telling players what is on the line should they fail is super important!

I did a campaign where players started in a village in a cursed desert, every night the undead came out of the earth and wandered around the edges of the village (but didn't enter it). The main plot was about a demon disguised as a person, attracting a giant (but passive) creature to crush the village (the creature wouldn't necessarily attack the village, but its walk would already be lethal). At the same time there was a tribe of barbarians nearby who demanded resources and women from the village. Players faced it all. They played with characters ages 8 to 12 years old. And they did it, without a fight.

Thanks. I've got a temple of evil druids (I know) who follow a very darwinian view of the universe and have a lab where they are designing/breeding the better frog but also producing potions from frog and other biological essences. I'd already given them quick access to an acid potion and one naptha fire ballish thingy, but I love the poisonous fumes and gas mask idea. I'll have to build in a double layer barrier to prevent the fumes from spreading and some sort of fume hood with a permanent gust of wind spell drawing fumes from the potion table. Also a strength draining or hallucinogenic or stupefying potion. They are also just around the corner from the Giant Horned Toad enclosure and their trainer who could arrive in 1 d 6 rounds with a couple giant horned toads. First round for the acid destroying the armour and some weapons rather than damage is great too. Yes Frog Face Gas Masks, very Cynidecian. And maybe have night vision goggles and a limited one hour air supply in them. (Hmm too much treasure.)

"3 Natural 20's and the tower falls" ... "may all your rolls be 20's" - you are a cruel man!

@celebrim1

3 жыл бұрын

What is the plan if the first 3 rolls are 20's? "And a success.... You are all dead. I hope you enjoyed that. Want to create more characters [for me to abuse]?"

In a game with Ressurection spells. Why is important to balance, to begin with?

@anthonynorman7545

3 жыл бұрын

The first 4 levels 😆

@CowboyX1000

3 жыл бұрын

Not all games allow resurrection spells.

@havokmusicinc

3 жыл бұрын

@@anthonynorman7545 Even at 1st level, Healing Word (the best spell in the whole game) exists

@anthonynorman7545

3 жыл бұрын

@@havokmusicinc healing word isn't a resurrection spell and spell slots are limited.

@johnathanrhoades7751

3 жыл бұрын

All resurrection spells require a ton of gems. You can very much limit access to those components or make it a whole quest to go find a super valuable diamond that will allow a resurrection...yeah. resurrection doesn't have to be a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm confident that my players would befriend the doggos and turn them on the house. Great video as always Professor! You inspired me, Ill give it a go and see what they come up with.

@krispalermo8133

3 жыл бұрын

Village chief lawman looks at a group of adventures and a wrymling red dragon, " You have a permit for that creature ?" Red dragon wrymling, " Creature is one, and since there is more than one, you should have said .. creatures. And why would I need a Permit for my lackeys ?"

@HouseDM

3 жыл бұрын

@@krispalermo8133 sounds about right to me.

I Love ALL Dungeon Craft videos! Especially his back catalog.

In Runequest 6 you have very fine control over combat balance through the fatigue mechanic which I like the idea of. You can quite easily set up what looks to the players like a hopleless situation but it isn't and conversely you can have two or three bandits be an extreme threat if the party is tired and the bandits are fresh.

Were the alchemists called Walt and Jesse, by any chance?

@PRG013

3 жыл бұрын

As long as the moonsnow is crystal clear.

One of the great benefits of an RPG like Champions is that superheroes (and supervillains) rarely die. Instead they are defeated. This allows battles to be a bit lop-sided without making the players feel like their characters are in mortal danger all the time. Instead, their character's reputation as a hero is as stake, along with other in-game things like the safety of dependent NPCs, the integrity of their secret identities, etc. I found that games where death is the primary means of "winning" an encounter drive players to view encounters as a do-or-die situations where "balance" is the only thing keeping them from a miserable evening's play. That's bad.

I roll in the open. Dice usually decide whether the shit hits the fan of not.

Great point about not just going for HP. I always say the more prominent it is on the character sheet...the more players will fear you messing with it. Someone on Reddit asked how to make players care more invested. I tell you players will be obsessed with anything that affects their character sheet, bonus points if it's for multiple sessions.

The only TPK I had was when I designed a “fatal funnel” to help my PCs. A narrow hallway only one person (badguy) could walk through at a time. The PCs all charged in one at a time and got slaughtered... XD

@simontmn

3 жыл бұрын

LOL

Thanks for more helpful insight. I want my games to be better and all I can do is scrabble for more tools in my DM box. The home made dungeon disk you made a DIY video for is a great idea that I made myself! Thanks

Love it!! Again, PDM demonstrates how to combine different rules systems, innovative ideas, and how to think like a DM- there is more to Dungeon Mastering then reading the flavor text and rolling dice....

Awesome! I’ve been rewatching the Room Design videos over again. Thanks for your take!

as Conan said "All that matters is that today, two stood against many"

I'll say it again. I REALLY like those plague doctor minis! - My proposed solution for the encounter: make the tower topple and pick through the debris for the quest item. But that may not work for all randomly generated missions.

I agree with most of this, the major exception being the idea that a DM can go for broke toward the end of a session, and if you TPK that's okay. I feel like that's a really old school way of thinking - not inherently bad, mind - and it can really throw a wrench in the plans of players like me who value their character's narrative. Granted, a worthy death can make for an amazing story, but I would personally not like to measure my characters' lifespans single digit binary. I also feel that unbalanced encounters can sometimes swing the other way, where the PCs demonstrably outmatch whatever they're fighting. You could even make it interesting by having an extremely killable target, but attach some dire consequences if the PCs give in and actually murder them.

Another great video with useful information. Can’t wait for more Veiled Society content

Stopped worrying about balance a long time ago when I realized that it's a myth. Now I just give my players the chance to gather information on their foe and the environment, and let them decide how to handle it. Level 1 adventurers could kill a dragon if they have the time and info to stack the deck in their favor.

@bruced648

3 жыл бұрын

that's funny, my players with lvl 20 characters run in terror at the mention of a dragon! I run dragons as true calamities, they will destroy cities and nations... if it's in their own interest.

@krispalermo8133

3 жыл бұрын

@@bruced648 AD&D2e , 4th level party .. Group of related young adult green dragons drop down infront and around the party as a .. Role .. playing scare tactic. a.) Dumb azz fighter charges the dragon in front of him with his two hand sword in a swinging thrust to the dragon's heart. i.) He rolls a natural 20, and max dmg of 18 on 3d6. ii.) As the book rules stated, consider all PCs & NPCs to be Taking 10 on defense. So I roll d20 for the dragon's defense with a result under 5. iii.) The player took action and Thac0 with dmg ... before rolling Initiative. ... the dragon rolled 2. Cause of cool dice rolls in Pc favor, I told the player to make a strength roll to see if his fighter PC could keep a hold of his sword as the dragon falls dead and a Dex/ tumble roll to look graceful and he get pulled with his sword as the dragon's body weight shifts. That PC killed the dragon like a cartoon action hero. And the rest of the green dragons had no problem with the PC, and wanted to act as their mounts in village raids. Bonus side effect of the game I ran, the players also got to RP the over player's PC dragon.

@bruced648

3 жыл бұрын

it's a good encounter with an awesome out come. glad your players were excited with the results, something they should remember for a long time. it's stories like this, that role-playing is all about!

@krispalermo8133

3 жыл бұрын

@@bruced648 In my early 20's I was always accuse of running a game as DM just so I could RP a giant of dragon to " up stage everyone " else, so I turned it around and had other people RP a monster or dragon of some type to get them out of their murder hoboing. I just had to figure it out .. how .. to RP a dragon or giant and set an acting example for everyone else to see what to play off. Another game a 8th level wizard got off a luck Polymorph Other spell on a female green dragon, turning her into a redhead Irish woman. Where by she was trained to be a .. noble .. lady .., still an insulting bickering " cough" slut. After a given bit of time, the baron's manor and township was .. her's .. prize ownership. Baron's son, " After this winter I look on you like a derange .. sister, yeah that is the work I was looking for, .. sister !" Dragon, " Stop looking at me like I'm your .. Sister ! " B.S. , " But you are a 20 ft long .. dragon ." Dragon, " And right now I'm the hottest redhead in the whole of the land !" Baron's mother, " Speak as such, if you are going to walk around inside the manor or town, you could at lest wear some .. clothes."

@celebrim1

3 жыл бұрын

"Level 1 adventurers could kill a dragon if they have the time and info to stack the deck in their favor." If they could, why haven't some NPC's done that before? I mean if it really is just a matter of time and info to beat a dragon, given the tremendous rewards of doing so, why aren't dragons already dead? The answer is that dragons aren't dead because they themselves have agency and cunning and will not passively sit there waiting to be killed. Which is what it sounds like your dragons are doing in order to create the particular self-delusion you enjoy.

An event occurs, the players set a goal, something complicates that goal. The players achieve their goal to some degree. Repeat and scale.

Losing equipment -- that's devilishly clever! I am going to experiment with timers. I need to find my knitting counter, so I can count rounds. Lost it, and I need it.

100% agree. I have told every group that starts with me DMing, ' It is not my goal to kill off your character, it is your goal to keep your character alive'. I have never had players so upset with me over 'unbalanced combat' until I started playing again using 5th edition. The unbalance to me is not in the playing, it is built into PCs. In 5th you simply level up and aquire power, skills and even new classes. You don't adventure for your power, it's already built in. I loved AD&D and I remember when Class Kits came out and everyone thought they were totally awesome and they were!until DMs realized it robbed their players of the magic of imagination. Its been a slow down hill from here.

Professor, this video is really cool. I invented the idea of get rid of balance, but think of how do I see the villains when I was running my campaign about demon breakthrough. My players were beaten up in a cult hideout and then decided to send druid in a spider form and there they found a key clue - city map with signs. Two sessions ago (in a other campaign) I give my 1-st lvl characters a challenge - their village was attacked by an young black dragon with a goblin army. Then they come up with a great trap for the dragon and make alliance with 3 fractions. Now I get this video describing the idea I've already tried. Thank you for advice! I send my regards from D&D club at MIPT. P.S. My players hated me for a tpk fight, so I think DM should make an announcement that he will make a deadly encounter, there players should think instead of rolling attack rolls, because average (my) player is unprepared.

I once attacked a player’s prof bonus with a custom wraith. Each attack lowered it by one. He had been playing for 30 years and I was able to freak him out.

@krispalermo8133

3 жыл бұрын

Ran a few games where werewolves get in close enough to engage in a wrestling match and out strength/ dex roll the PCs. Slow death without a magic weapon to swing.

@mattpace1026

3 жыл бұрын

That is so incredibly cheap. So, the only way you could provide a challenge to the character was to arbitrarily screw their abilities? Must have been so much fun...for you.

@damienfeymont3433

3 жыл бұрын

@@mattpace1026 It wasn’t at all. Older editions of D&D had monsters that would drain your Ability Scores and some monsters even had level drain. (Which yeah level drain sucks). I wanted something similar to level drain but not as punishing and not permanent (as I stated earlier, level drain sucked). I also wanted to make Wraiths terrifying. A death spiral design was intentional. I reassured him sure he would get his prof back at the end of a long rest. In the end it was just a character without his +3 proficiency bonus to his attacks and some skills. Not too big of a penalty. I landed only one hit with the wraith on him, so he lost -1 prof for the day. My players enjoyed the fight!

@oz_jones

2 жыл бұрын

This is evil. I love it! Bonus points if you worded it like it would be permanent when in actually it wasn't

we all remember what happened to the Republic when Quigon tried to bring balance to the force with Anakin Skywalker!!! all kneel before the emperor...

D&D adventures are supposed to be Fun, Exciting, and Dangerous. Any "Life" that a person leads will never be balanced, ups and downs are a part of any life. With great risk comes great reward, sometimes with great failure. It's all a part of life!!! Great Job Professor DM.

Love the timer aspect. Need to use that more. Similarly, love the volatile surroundings and the constant danger of hallucinations.

So fitting, I just ran my first "unbalanced" encounter last week, and all my players thought it was intense. Also threw initiative out the window for the encounter to help the combat run (another Dungeon Craft suggestion). Thanks for the info, love your stuff!

Really good video! My players are very creative when they are actually afraid of something. I love the advice to attack something other than their HP!

I think it's good to consider what kind of players you have too. New to the game? Veterans with decades under the belt? Strategists? Folks who barely understand the rules? I can see this perspective with a table full of vets, but not with newbs who really are excited to just survive the mundane at this point. Also, I think few players get bored with "winning" any tabletop RPG unless you really are the type of DM who does everything by the book, and each encounter is a perfect CR challenge. That definitely would be boring! Personally, I don't use CR at all, and I try to add a little spice here and there as we go. I don't think every encounter should be "deadly" or a super mix, but I do think those should be in the mix somewhere, especially down the line. They serve as a great crescendo! :)

Please.. I’m begging here. Could you create a playlist of just encounters. Y our encounters are just the best. Thanks for doing what you do prof!

hey professor, how do you handle healing? how potion, spells and long rest works in a low fantasy osr game?

Players remember: Running away is also an option. Unless you can't. Then there's martyrdom

@DecidedlyNinja

3 жыл бұрын

Running is an option unless your enemies have a higher speed than you and have a reason to chase you. #dwarfproblems

@AlVainactual

3 жыл бұрын

@@DecidedlyNinja 50% of dwarves in heavy armors don't survive their first foray into the dungeon. You can help poor dwarves get lighter, mithril armors by calling 1-500-SAVE-BRUENOR

I started my last session (like my fifth with that group, two of my brothers, or like 7th session total,) with them following trails of four spies going into the woods. They were two level 2 characters, so I entered that in D&DBeyond's encounter builder and 2 CR 1/4 drow + 2 CR 1/8 kobolds were going to be an encounter bordering on deadly. Since I wasn't expecting my players to be fighting them to the death, as they needed information and I made it very clear they were outnumbered and the spy they talked to was very confident about having the upper hand, so I allowed it to be up to deadly, even though it's been a while since we last played. My players weren't very tactical about it and ended up attacking, opening with Inflict Wounds... nat 1 (again lol). Then came a whole round of my players missing everything and the spies hitting everything (though I made sure to spread the damage, both being realistic and helping balance what went down). I had the spy the party was familiar with shout out "You can still walk away!", which the less aggressive PC happily did. The encounter ended with me describing the other player as outnumbered 4 to 1, abandoned by his only ally, fighting enemies that seemed to take him down effortlessly, and him deciding to retreat as well. Making balanced encounters (neither too easy, nor too hard,) is impossible. Balancing unbalanced encounters as you go is a fine art worth mastering if you are a DM. Also, do mix up encounter difficulty. Their next encounter was just the 2 1/8 kobolds, which they made short work of. Letting your players decide when to fight and when to avoid fighting is part of a balanced campaign, where applying common sense and players making decisions for themselves are made crucial.

I love the way you put encounters together. This is just the kind of insanity that I need to add to my game.

The doobly doo?! Doesn’t Matt Coleville have a copy write on that?

@CarlHeyl

3 жыл бұрын

Nope. It predates him by like 5 years.

@CarlHeyl

3 жыл бұрын

@@AuntieHauntieGames my understanding is it's use on KZread was coined by WheezyWaiter.

This is the content i watch this chanel for! Profesor you are back in form.

I agree so much with this. My players’ favorite sessions were the first session when I had them fight a number of skeletons and a nerfed Minotaur skeleton. The other one was two displacer beasts. Both of which were hard fought and ultimately consequences. The first one was a pc death the second was a huge beating

Damn, I like the concise way these adventures are laid out! I have a similar approach of setting things up for my players and leaving it up to them to figure something out, but it's so haphazard the way I do it. I have such an awesome group that they can make narrative gold out of any tangle of crap I give them, but this kind of organization might give them something really worth making a mess out of.

Another way to look at this excellent point is the party must recognise their goal isn't always to completely defeat in combat the enemy. When up against a challenging opponent their objective might be to steal the MacGuffin undetected, to sabotage enemy resources or just to escape the scenario alive. Give them varied scenarios and they'll likely start planning this way.

Great take as always. You are an OGM in my book. 👊🏼

You've given me an encounter. I'm thankful.

I totally agree, I plan my encounters based on what the opposition are likely to have rather than what the party can handle, it is then up to the players to plan how to deal with the situation. Likewise I build my worlds as "real" worlds with some locations populated by set persons/monsters from day one. This means that from early on in a campaign the characters may be aware of the location of a dragons cave with the local villagers warning them of how old and mighty the dragon is, now if they go and try to fight that ancient dragon at 1st level it is going to hurt, but if they just keep it in mind until they are much higher level they might have a chance. But likewise they have had situations when they have attacked a goblin stronghold at a reasonable level, and found that most of the goblins are very low level and they have just mowed them down. This approach works with the group that I DM for as most of our campaigns last between 1 and 3 years, with the characters reaching 15th to 20th level.

Dog barking bit on headphones scared the shit out of me. Thanks professor.

I am playing 3.5 and the problem is the crazy fast scaling of CR, in 3.5 if you throw a CR 5 monster to the typical 4 person party they may not be able to run and escape. I love 3.5 for various reasons, but in old school games I can see a first level party dealing with a 5hd critter. So an issue is how fast the leveling system scales.

Great video! Wargames fall prey to this too. There's an obsession with things being 'balanced' and 'fair'. Unlike the vast majority of battles ever in history! Sure, sometimes it was a "close run thing". A lot of times, the conflict was essentially over before the first shot. The real decisions were what led up to that clash. I would say that a good game is one that offers interesting decisions. Sometimes those are during the encounter... and sometimes they were what led up to the encounter.

So I posted this take on reddit in DMAcademy about 4 months ago and it was very controversial. But my belief is that if you are balancing encounters (which in 5e means the encounters can be overcome without permanent negative consequences) then you are railroading the players and invalidating their choices. Good choices and bad choices don't matter because you as the DM have already determined that this encounter must be overcome.

@monkeybarsixx6763

3 жыл бұрын

As someone who used to run a lot of Pathfinder, I totally agree. It pains me that most games can't be ran without a sense of "balance". Throw a manticore at a low level party in PF2e. They have almost zero chance of hurting it, mathematically speaking. The "danger" is only coming from the statistics, rather than the Fiction, which makes for a good boardgame, but a bad RPG. No clever planning or trickery or tactics can save you there. That's why this is a controversial topic. People don't want to move outside of the safe, mathematically sound framework.

Where did you get those character miniatures like that rogue woman or those two plague doctors?

Most memories come from the unbalanced encounters, like the time two party members got squeezed into liquid by a Behir

The best and most memorable encounters were the ones when we had no idea how we were going to get out of them. And sometimes all of us didn’t make it.

When 3e introduced the monster Challenge Rating, they made suggestions for the types of challenges the party should face on average. Some were well beneath party level, most were somewhere in the middle, and some were well above them. While CR hasn't exactly held true to its intended usefulness, the idea is solid. The majority of encounters are minor obstacles and shouldn't be too tough, but the main ones, the ones that really matter in the scenario, should be very challenging, forcing the party to do more than just muscle their way through another slug-fest combat to beat the boss and achieve the mission goals. Balance is for circus performers, not heroes.

I am running 4 - 6th lvl characters thru S4. (ad&d module) its designed for 4 to 8 players lvl 6 thru 10. the players have to use there intelligence and discretion with each encounter. the fact that all the pc's are evil aligned is making many encounters very unique. I also don't use monster stat block directly from the monster manual. needless to say, most encounters are deadly and none of them are balanced. but these are the things that make the adventure fun and exciting! this is why Disney stories end at "happily ever after". without an antagonist, there is no story!

Grognards everywhere approve of this message! PS- To one and all, palace/castle/elite city guards are supposed to be bad-sses, not cannon fodder. Level the baddies up and make em work for it, Think Swiss Guards at the Vatican... and keep the polyhedrons rolling! 8>D

Love your videos man! Keep the great content coming.

Day is always made with a dungeon craft vid

Another good vid prof DM I couldn't agree more, there must be more uneven encounters players need to learn that they cant just charge through every encounter with no fear of death

I'm a fan of the Dungeon Crawl Classics school of balancing encounters (TLDR; don't). And I like Davvy Chappy's assessment of the DM trying to balance encounters and how ridiculous it is, essentially racking your brains to make encounters challenging enough to be fun and defeat boredom, but not challenging enough that someone dies or so challenging someone rage quits. (paraphrase)

Professor you make some of the best D&D videos out there. I've used several of your ideas at my table. I love throwing my players for loops they didn't expect by changing the rules. Ended up killing 4 of my 6 players on the last session because they made stupid choices. Oh well more bones to use as roads. Keep up the awesome work you do.

A lot of great ideas. I make it very clear that some fights are unwinnable and they should know when to fold their cards and walk away or at least use the terrain to their advantage.

I'm DMing and also playing a halfling rogue in Lost mines of Phandelver. I'm still kinda new to D&D so its awesome but me and my niece got knocked out trying to save Sildar Hallwinter from the Cragmaws. We only lived because my nephew used Magic missile to end the fight. My niece and I had already failed twice on our saving throws. The adventures calls for four players but its just us three.

interesting thing about balancing encounters. In the 13th age they have simple chart. in brief the total power of the enemies = total level of the party. You can adjust that level up and down and it is easy to see how much easier or harder you are making it.

I really like Professor DMs relaxed style here.

It's easy to have a seemingly scary encounters that doesn't turn into a TPK, IF you don't use game rules. If the Ringwraiths actually rolled Perception and attack rolls versus the hobbits in a D&D game, the Ring would have been in Morder a lot sooner. Darth Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke on Cloud City. If he wanted to kill Luke, then Luke would have been dead in seconds. When Vader was trying to kill Luke and had a lock on Luke's X-Wing, Vader missed (DM fiat) before Han shot Vader's wingman. Had it come down to dice, Luke would have died.

The first game I ran was Cyberpunk 2020, where there is no expectation of encounter balance, so I had a PC get gunned down session 1 with an assault rifle at point-blank range by a guard in full body armor because he tried to punch the guard in the face. But then when I started running 5e, I tried planning balanced encounters, since that's what you're "supposed" to do, and realized pretty quickly that it just isn't worth the effort. So I don't consider encounter balance anymore, and as far as I can tell, my players enjoy those fights far more than any balanced encounter I've ever run or been a part of.

Why Professor Dungeon Master is the goat - today on… Edit: Was Die Hard balanced? Was Predator balanced? Was Rambo balanced?… Well maybe, the guy is a one man army.

Definitely agree. The most memorable moments in my games have been the ones where the players are outclassed and have to get a little crafty in order to survive.

The encounter described in the video was balanced. It was difficult but _possible_ and the characters had the option to flee. Unbalanced would be an encounter that has no challenge or one that is a virtually guaranteed TPK. Like having a dozen high level assassins ambush a party of low level characters, win initiative, and kill every player character before they have a chance to even act.

I agree with this sentiment whole-heartedly. Without the potential for death success is meaningless.

Unbalanced encounters can make victory, or even survival, all the sweeter. I will never forget when my party fought against a father dragon and his two sons. We were horribly outclassed but my character managed to kill one son before we fled. Alas, our monk was lost that day...

Fantastic video, i 100% agree Also most of the coolest monsters arent balanced mimics vampires ghosts (those arent even the weird ones)etc. If you try to force those types of monsters into "fair" scenarios they lose most of their edge and usually are killed before you even discover their signature traits. Those kinds of enemies require surprise tactics and puzzle solving to defeat/avoid.