This is obviously an extremely sensitive and particularly controversial topic. But it is important to be able to discuss it. So, how do you think we should understand what is happening in Nagorno-Karabakh at the moment? Is it ethnic cleansing, as Yerevan argues? Or should be see it as Armenians choosing to leave after defeat, as Azerbaijan insists? Do let me know your thoughts and comments below.

@paulstephen3257

7 ай бұрын

I don't think you can starve a population for 9 months and then threaten to arrest all male combatants and then say that you are willing to "reintegrate" them. This is clearly coercion and ethnic cleansing in my view. Not that the armenians are innocent either as they drove out 500-600k azeris in the first war. I don't really see a prospect for the two sides to live together unless international pressure and security gurantees are applied.

@Todd.B

7 ай бұрын

I always forget it's friday until I see your video posted. lol Thanks for this one. To me the answer is black and white, one of the definitions of ethnic cleansing is "threat of violence". I would expect both sides to answer exactly as they did, however, neither of these bodies making these statements live in the area. It's like old men regulating abortion, they have no experience in it. The issue of abortion should be guided by the experience of women, likewise, whether this is ethnic cleansing should be guided by the people leaving the area. I'm more than willing to bet they will say they left because of the threat of violence, which is one of the definitions. Have a great weekend Prof.

@abdullahmahmud9403

7 ай бұрын

How is it ethnic cleaning ? Is Azerbaijan forcing them out at gunpoint ? NO they are leaving on their own because they don't want to live in Azerbaijan they are separatists they either want separatism or Armenia since separatism is dead now they are leaving

@pln9999

7 ай бұрын

Where was the European media when the Armenians were terrorizing Karabakh? When Azerbaijan takes revenge Where was this European media when Armenians were killing civilians in French media is hypocritical

@gammac534

7 ай бұрын

The "fleeing" Armenians themselves admit that it is THEIR OWN choice to leave and it is due to their prejudice and nothing else.

I visited Nagorno Karabakh some years ago. Also Armenia and Azerbaijan. I've never seen two different people hating each other so much. It's simply impossible for them to live together. It's completely nonsense for them to live in the same area. Azerbaijan knows armenians are not going to live under Baku's rule, so saying they would let them live there is just a confortable position for them to say, because they know that the armenians won't come back or stay there. This conflict reveals once more the hypocrisy of the US and the EU. Some wars and some people matter. Others don't.

@sunshine8556

7 ай бұрын

Balkans LOL

@JN-wr9he

7 ай бұрын

I suspect you had gone to Azerbaijan first as you could have only travelled to Karabakh illegally. I am curious as to what you think might be the right solution - let them live there on their own after they had cleansed out azerbaijanis, because they want to be a monoethnic entity? Would that satisfy the ‘democratic’ west and your sense of justice? The word hypocrisy is so often abused, but I think it is quite relevant in this case - trying to condemn Azerbaijan when there is no act while letting armenians get away with literal mass murder and ethnic cleansing can’t be described any better.

@deepblue3682

7 ай бұрын

Russia matters for EU

@jeremiahberkshire5788

7 ай бұрын

1 MILLION Azerbaijanis were driven out of their homes during the first war. Including 613 people who were killed by the Armenian army while trying to escape in the middle of the night on February 26, 1992. Even Nagorno Karabakh was only 70% armenian before the 90s and the surrounding regions were almost 100% Azerbaijani but even those regions were occupied by Armenia.

@teodorcuculea4277

7 ай бұрын

Literally Russia made the autonomus Nagorno Karabakh part of Azerbaidjan even though most of it was Armenian. Hate on each other (neigbours) is Russia's divide et impera strategy seen multiple times. What has EU and US to do with it?

Azerbaijan showed they have no intention to negotiate for peace.

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

Why? Do you think they should have waited another 30 years to take back their own lands?

@patrickstar1164

7 ай бұрын

@@demirg they took it back anyways. I am talking about ethnic cleansing

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

@@patrickstar1164 There’s no ethnic cleansing of Armenians. They are simply leaving with the internal assumption that they will be treated as they treated Azerbaijanis in the 90s. UN mission paid a visit to Karabakh today and approved this fact.

@patrickstar1164

7 ай бұрын

@@demirg they are forced to leave. Azerbaijan started a military attack on them and kept in blockade for 11 months, not letting them have water, food, gas. It's ethnic cleansing

@randomhuman5525

7 ай бұрын

@@patrickstar1164Total lie 😅

As an Azerbaijani I feel so disppointed and betrayed by the Western voices in this conflict. In the 1990ies Armenia had used brutality in places like Khojaly (killing hundreds in a single night) in order to intimidate the local Azerbaijanis to flee from the region, which they did, walking, over the snow-covered ridges. This was actual ethnic cleansing per the definition in this very video. Now that the pendulum has swung the other way, we see that the Azerbiajani government is not stooping to such methods, and instead is offering citizenship to the population that actively rebelled, fought, demolished, maimed and killed. But the Western observers are ascribing all the viles in the world to the Azerbaijani side, while neglecting that Armenia had committed actual war crimes in the very same situation. This is so unfair.

@duybear4023

7 ай бұрын

The past is the past. Can there be peace now?

@ZanuDA9711

7 ай бұрын

​@@duybear4023 This isn't past, though. Most of deoccupied territories of Azerbaijan are still scattered with destroyed homes. You can even see them on Google maps. Those are homes of real Azerbaijanis who still can't go back to their homes.

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

The west has always been biased againt Turks even if we’re right. We, in Türkiye, experienced this many times throughout our history. You need to accept this fact and take your steps accordingly.

@AVV_Beats

7 ай бұрын

No. The Azerbaijani government eradicated everything Armenian in Nakhichivan. It has turned almost everything else Armenian into something "Caucasian Albanian". It treats murderers like Ramil Safarov as heroes. It excused videos of Armenians getting executed and their bodies mutilated in 2020, 2021 and 2022. It make the Armenian mannequins in the Baku park look like subhumans. You cannot behave like this then expect Armenians to believe you when you say you will not harm them. The trust is completely gone.

@USofA2023

7 ай бұрын

So Armenians just up and decided one day to go kill Azeries? Makes no sense. What about Sumgait and Baku pogroms? What about Azerbaijan massacring Armenians in Nagorno Karabagh first? If you want people to take your comments seriously, don't start your story from the chapter that suits your narrative. 🇺🇲

I don't think you can starve a population for 9 months and then threaten to arrest all male combatants and then say that you are willing to "reintegrate" them. This is clearly coercion and ethnic cleansing in my view. Not that the armenians are innocent either as they drove out 500-600k azeris in the first war. I don't really see a prospect for the two sides to live together unless international pressure and security gurantees are applied.

@ribrahimov

7 ай бұрын

Can you please provide tangible proof of how Azerbaijani authorities "starved" the population? Also, threatening to arrest male "combatants" does not seem like an unreasonable move, as this is an attempt of demilitarising the territory. Aggree with the last point though, it is going to be challenging unless some sort of multifaceted aggrement and balance is accomplished

@kth6736

7 ай бұрын

This is not "ethnic cleansing" because its western approved. 😂 Only when it goes against western policy objectives it becomes "ethnic cleansing" like in case of rohingyas od Myanmar.

@paulstephen3257

7 ай бұрын

@@ribrahimov It was all over the news. Unless you live under a rock, you would have seen that no Food, medicine, or fuel was allowed through the Lachin corridor despite an ICJ ruling. Even when aid came through aghdam, it came very late with multiple delays and was stopped after a certain point. Also, if you arrest any males that served in the army at one point then most of the males of the territory would be detained and no one would stay under that condition, hence ethnic cleansing.

@seneca983

7 ай бұрын

@@ribrahimov "Also, threatening to arrest male "combatants" does not seem like an unreasonable move, as this is an attempt of demilitarising the territory." A wholesale incarceration of such a large portion of the Armenian population in NK would be rather severe oppression. It would be a rather severe atrocity if Azerbaijan were to actually tyrannize its reintegrated Armenian population in such a brazen manner. (Note, I'm not making claims about whether Azerbaijan would actually tyrannize the Armenians but merely that this particular act would be tyranny if they were to actually do it.)

@morticiaaddams4659

7 ай бұрын

Please review materials on ethnic cleansic 30 years ago by Armenia, 1 million refugee azerbaijanians- why the world was silent then?

People of Nagorno Karabagh have been starved for many months, with no food medicine, electricity, or fuel. What is this called?

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

Armenians’ fault. They were transporting millitary equipment via Lachin Corridor and Azerbaijan had to place a border force to check the trucks because Russian peacekepers didn’t do anything to prevent this, which was against the aggrement signed in 2020. They refused their trucked to be checked by Azerbaijani border force to ensure no military equipment is transported to Karabakh from Armenia. They also refused Azerbaijan’s humanitarian aid to lie to international community that they were under blockade.

@ribrahimov

7 ай бұрын

@@demirg This is interesting take. Can you provide some proof etc. for this issue, specifically for the transporting of military equipment etc.

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

@@ribrahimov Azerbaijani government showed the photos of the military equipment seized from Armenians to media after their counter terror operation ended.

@kth6736

7 ай бұрын

Obviously a genocide. And the west is doing its wink-wink nudge-nudge routine.

@oneway1119

7 ай бұрын

​@@demirg😂😂😂 I guess Agdam road was used for transferring military too? That lasted only one day? And military operation has started very following day. Your lies are catching up with you

That was a very informative video. I am really happy that the question of “Is ethnic cleansing happening or not in Karabagh against Armenians?” is discussed this widely. I would be really happy if the same question is widely discussed for Azerbaijanis have fled Karabagh in 1990s as well. If ethnic Armenians leaving Karabagh despite of Azerbaijan gov assurances is argued if it is ethnic cleansing or not, then Azerbaijanis leaving karabagh, their homes at night in winter by litterally running through forests should be accepted as ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately we are very familiar woth double standards of western media and politics and our side of story will never be as highlighted as Armenians.

@user-jc4wr9im7o

6 ай бұрын

See, your comment doesn't even get a like from Admin bc Westerns are biased, and as like the last 30 years, Azerbaijan should take its own steps. EU or US won't listen to them as they didn't in the last 30 year.

@Maharaaja.

4 ай бұрын

You know, that all started from Sumgait pogrom in 1988.

@lianabertsch8069

4 ай бұрын

Azeri were displaced from Armenia during 1992. Before it even before the war started there was Sumgait massacre committed by Azerbaijan and then in 1990 over 450,000 Armenians were displaced and killed from Baku. That’s when the war started and Azeri were displaced from the territories that Armenian took over. Azerbaijan cannot kill so many innocent people and expect nothing would happen.

@TigranHakobyan-jh8ue

2 ай бұрын

Armenians were also ethnically cleansed from all of Azerbaijan as well. Dont act all innocent. Do you not remember the Baku, Sumgait, and Kirovabad pogroms. My Grandpa and Grandmas fled Kirovabad in 1988 and he can never go back.

@orkhanakbarov5532

2 ай бұрын

@@TigranHakobyan-jh8ueThe video talks only from one perspective. My grandparents had to flee Yerevan in 1948. Way before this all started. I want to visit Yerevan as well. To see my where ancestry has lived. Do I have that right? No one talks about them and our rights as if it is normal to force us from our homes.

There's no doubt Azerbaijan's Nakhichevan exclave is the final goal, but this would cut off already very weak Armenia from Iran. With Turkey to the West, Azerbaijan to East and cold relations with Georgia, Armenia is in tough spot with few cards to play. Perhaps Iran would intervene not wanting to see a strengthened Turkic alliance and emboldened Azeris within their borders. What a mess!

@electrosyzygy

7 ай бұрын

@@purposesquash yeah that's why I said 'cold relations. They'd basically be landlocked by hostile neighbors. They need to make amends and strategize and definitively move away from betting on Russia--they've been on the wrong side of history way too long!

@notamoonraker

7 ай бұрын

​@@purposesquash Wrong decision by Armenia in the past.. but even back then Armenia didn't have choice because they too were forced to obey Russia.. being geographically close with Russia is such a nightmare.. no wonder Poland, Finland, Baltic states, Georgia, etc want to decouple from Moscow.

@whitewhite4462

7 ай бұрын

Saw some Pakistanis enjoying and supporting Azerbaijan like some kind of soccer match.

@sk.43821

7 ай бұрын

EU and USA would be good allies, as always. Unfortunately the Soviets/Russians allowed this unnecessary tragedy to happen. Only massive US and European diplomatic effort could offer a minimal chance for an Armenian Karabakh autonomous region. But Turks are usually not interested in peacefully shared neighbourhood.

@alexandru5369

7 ай бұрын

Yeah I could see Azerbijan binding their time for it due too Iran's objections and war tactics in general

For the laymen this is very simple, if West did not condemn the millions of Azeris fleeting as Ethnic Cleansing, then it should not call this one ethnic cleansing unless there is concrete evidence of forceful removing. For ordinary people, the genocide also means large scale killing, removing or eliminating its culture (not merely educate them the national culture) of an ethnic group. The UN definition is simply too broad and will water down the seriousness of the Word Genocide.

@bilic8094

7 ай бұрын

In every single conflict one side will blame the other for prior events but that doesn't take away from the fact that this is massive ethnic cleansing.

@imbashiir1825

7 ай бұрын

I couldn’t say more sir.

@mabaker

7 ай бұрын

It is not that simple at all. it is simple if you are part of the Azeri propaganda machine, yes, but if you look at the entire situation objectively it does amount to ethnic cleansing.

@paulstephen3257

7 ай бұрын

I think the numbers in the first war were around 700k azeris displaced from armenia and the 7 districts surronding nagorno karabakh, and 350k armenians displaced from azerbaijan. Both these events were considered ethnic cleansing in the west. Denying food to a population in order to coerce them into leaving is ethnic cleansing, not just removal at the point of a gun.

@Dr.Sometimes

7 ай бұрын

@@mabakerThis is BS, there are no evidence of systematic threats, executions or explosions happening right now… If the Armenians are fleeing because of an internal assumption that there will be some kind of revenge then it is not consider Genocide nor Ethnic-Cleansing. A genocide will be something like Yugoslavia, Cambodia with the CamarRouge, Myanmar right now, the Turk genocides, Etc… where there was either active acts of genocide like mass executions or rapes or Passively like threats or degraded to second class citizenship. And you have no evidence of that happening. I hate Turkey and the Turkes there and not much of a fan of other Turkek countries but this case is glass clear that right now there are no evidence of systemic genocide actively or passively, all of what happening are that the Armenians there either they are too proud to live under Azeris or/and afraid of some kind of retaliation for the las 30 years without any evidence.

The separatist government of Nagorno-Karabakh said Thursday it will dissolve itself and the unrecognised republic will cease to exist by year's end after a three-decade bid for independence, while Armenian officials said more than half of the region's population has already fled.

@pln9999

7 ай бұрын

Where was the European media when the Armenians were terrorizing Karabakh? When Azerbaijan takes revenge Where was this European media when Armenians were killing civilians in French media is hypocritical

@karimmaasri1723

7 ай бұрын

​@@adamblackwell524Totally not.

@the0ne809

7 ай бұрын

it also seems that Azerbaijan is thinking about invading the southern providence in Armenia, so it can connect the country with its exclave and Turkey.

@Asfandyar_

7 ай бұрын

​@@adamblackwell524Majority in the occupied 7 regions, yes. Not in Karabakh itself.

@darthinsanitus8510

7 ай бұрын

This doesn’t sound like Ethnic cleansing

Thank you for the video. I would have loved to hear your thoughts, that there were 4 UN resolutions requiring Armenia to withdraw from Azerbaijans territory and they never did. Also what do you think about almost 1 million Azerbaijanis (as you mentioned in the video) being refugees for 30 years ? Is this not considered ethnic cleansing by armenians ? Not considered genocide ? What about 7 districts of Azerbaijan that were not part of Nagorniy Karabakh but were still occupied by Armenian forces ?

@KavkAzeri

7 ай бұрын

Serious questions which Armenians refuse to answer in honesty.

@AnaitVoskanyan

7 ай бұрын

​@@KavkAzeriIf you want honestly : in 1988 Karabakh left AzSSR legally, by referendum. In 1991 Karabakh left USSR, legally , in accordance of Soviet laws. Azer-an left USSR without Karabakh and 30 years Karabakh was armenian. So Azer-an with help of Putin occupied independent Karabakh.

@KavkAzeri

7 ай бұрын

@@AnaitVoskanyan not at all. You are absolutely wrong. Absolutely. Karabakh, according to international law in all means is part of Azerbaijan it is a legitimate territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan recognized by all countries in the world - including Armenia. Got it?!

@AnaitVoskanyan

7 ай бұрын

@@KavkAzeri If to accept dirty deals of Moscow wirh Aliev-father..we can say...

@fridmuradov1049

7 ай бұрын

@@AnaitVoskanyan Karabakh never has such as right. Local governing was depended on Baku, not Yerevan. When parliament of Karabakh decided to leave, got rejected by Baku and Moscow. Azerbaijanis never accept to give up this lands. The best suggestion was living together and juridically equal with the higher level autonomy. Armenia always denied it and demanded other disputed lands except Karabakh. We can see it in the official map of de facto Republic

Guys, especially the ones who have no clue, Erdogan and Aliev said it clearly and publicly, they will complete what their ancestors from the Ottoman Empire, Jamal Pasha and Abdul Hamid Pasha, and others started but did not finish, "The ethnic cleansing of mainly the Armenians and all other Christian minorities in general who live in Turkish ruled territories". Isn't it the time for the free world to re-think and reconsider the impunity that the Turks have been enjoying for the last 107 years?

Alyiev said in 2020 if they didn’t leave willingly he would drive the Armenians out like dogs

@ribrahimov

7 ай бұрын

That was about the soldiers & the army, not civilians

Professor, you failed to mention one crucial matter. According to a trilateral statement signed by leaders of Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Russia ending the war in 2020, the remaining Armenian armed forces had to leave the territory of Azerbaijan while Russian peacekeepers were moving into Karabakh. Not only did the Armenian armed forces fail to leave, but they continued to engage in diversions, planting mines and getting more weaponry through the Lachin corridor, which was opened for humanitarian reasons. The last stroke for Azerbaijan’s patience was the planting of mines on a newly built road that killed 2 civilians and 6 police officers. So the intention of the one day operation was to disarm the remaining Armenian forces! No Azerbaijani soldier entered towns or forced anyone to leave. Most of the Armenians admit that they were not forced to leave, but decided to do so. Unlike in early 90’s Azerbaijanis had to run or get killed by the advancing Armenian military. In this case Armenians had a choice to stay and become Azerbaijani citizen or to leave. They decided to leave and that's their choice!

@ozzyozboy6471

7 ай бұрын

Very well said

@armenavetisian7599

6 ай бұрын

Before you wrote this long opinion regarding this conflict. I highly suggest to read the facts about the pogroms of Armenians in Sumgait that took place in Baku in 1988. Please be educated as history might be manipulated but not erased!!!🇦🇲

@roughdiamond7491

6 ай бұрын

@@armenavetisian7599 ok tell me more about it. While you talk about it, I suggest you also read about Azerbaijanis being kicked out of Armenia in masses way before Sumgayit happened. Read also about Khodjaly, and other massacres committed by your kinsmen in occupied territories of Azerbaijan. Trust me you got nothing to explain the reason for 28 years of occupation, destruction of cities and towns and ethnic cleansing of Azerbaijanis from their homes, other than delusional idea of creating a greater Armenia.

I am an azeri, born outside of Karabakh to a family that was expelled during the first Karabakh war in the 90’s, I have never been to Karabakh due to occupation. I am planning on moving back and studying armenian, and hope there will be many social projects and programs that bring our peoples together, so hopefully a lot of ethnic armenians will also come back and we can finally live together in peace. I don’t think Im voicing a controversial opinion to what most azeris want. both sides lost thousands to war, we’re tired, and it’s time for peace. Slowly, but surely it will take place. There is no other way

@sevinjabbasova3751

7 ай бұрын

Agreed. As an Azeri it breaks my heart to see images of Armenians fleeing Karabakh today. History shouldn’t be repeated. I hope that integration of Armenians won’t be problematic or difficult. A lot of my friends from Azerbaijan are ready to welcome Armenians and help them out.

@upsoclpozitif

7 ай бұрын

yanlış yapıyorsunuz türkiyenin düştüğü hataya düşmeyin@@sevinjabbasova3751

@suleymantagiyev6175

5 ай бұрын

@@sevinjabbasova3751 sevinc xanım çox maraqlıdır ki sizdə burda soyadlarını dəyişib qalan ermənilərdənsiz? Kaş bu tutumunuzu 90 cı illərdə çıxan Azərbaycanlılarada göstərərdiz

Long anticipated video!

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Certainly not an easy topic to discuss, especially as events are still unfolding.

@VladTevez

7 ай бұрын

@@JamesKerLindsay Vae Victis...

Thank you Prof. James. I just subscribed. I think this analysis is in fact one of rare balanced assessments of Karabakh events that I see in the media. Western media, almost all of them are one-sided: primarily not saying facts that can anyhow give a hint that Armenians weren't angels all the way along until the events of today. You did cover the narrative from both sides pretty well, I wish you were a bit more affirmative that actions of Azerbaijan does not account to ethnic cleansing. I also think there is room to have a separate analysis looking deeper into the history of this conflict, e.g., why the ethnic Armenians are fleeing today even though Azerbaijani government is giving them amnesty and the option to become equal citizens? The reason is: there has been a history there, what Armenians did in 1990s, which Western people do not want to talk about, was horrendous. Even if Western people do not want to talk about those events, Armenians themselves know it well. In spite of that, if you ask me: was it fair or even logical to have Karabakh rejoin as part of Azerbaijan with or without it's ethnic-Armenian population? I would say it was neither fair nor logical. Those ethnic Armenians living there have always been the majority: even when they cruelly expelled Azerbaijanis in 1990, according to records, the people living there were ~75% ethnic Armenians. Logically, a land belongs to people who live there and have lived there for a long time. Now I know international laws are framed differently, but I believe any other approach will not bring peace. On the other hand, I also hear worries of Azerbaijani side. Azerbaijan was open to an alternative settlement since 1994 ceasefire. This would have given at least some form of autonomy to ethnic Armenians or even annexation to Armenia. Azerbaijan back then was fundamentally interested to free the 7 districts surrounding Karabakh which were purely (or nearly 100%) Azeri-populated before 1990s conflict. These are the districts from where nearly 1m Azerbaijanis were expelled from, then Armenians (of Armenia or Karabakh) demolished houses of those cities just to create so called a buffer zone for Karabakh. You can see photos of those ruin cities if you search in the internet, which are heartbreaking to any human who has a heart. However, Armenians dragged those negotiations and systematically rejected any notion of giving back land to Azerbaijan that they had captured by force. Eventually Azerbaijan was left with no choice but to resort to military option in 2020. That war cost the lives of ~3000 Azerbaijani soldiers, a heavy price to pay of course. Also, something that western people might not be fully aware, there was a huge nervousness amongst Azerbaijani officials to opt for military option as they were worried Russia could be pulled to the conflict. So they were genuine to revolve the issue through negotiations up to that point. Meanwhile, Armenians continued border provocations more often, and did some serious damage in July 2020. Therefore, what we see today is in fact the result of Armenians dragging their feet for 30 years not choosing peace but preferring to keep the land that they had occupied. Armenians still did not come to their senses after Fall 2020 war. They kept ignoring calls for a peace deal from Azerbaijan and Turkey and kept blocking prospects of a transportation corridor between Azerbaijan's mainland and Naxcivan exclave through Armenian territory. This frustrated Azerbaijanis, to say the least. Hence, Azerbaijan once again was left with no choice but to use it's military, but this time of course Azerbaijani officials were not nervous at all, the myth of Armenians being invincible and Russia's shadow was no longer there. Now if you ask me again at this point, I will still say that a land belongs to the people who live there, any group of people if they choose should have the right for self-determination, territorial integrity of countries should not supersede the desires of groups of people for self-rule. Hence I still wish that ethnic Armenians could have stayed in Karabakh and there could be a settlement of corridors to connect them to Armenia and Azerbaijan to it's Naxcivan exclave, but who am I to say? People in Azerbaijan were really worried if these ethnic Armenians get their hands on some weapons they will start another war and resume their buffer-making project, i.e., kill off or expel entire population of more cities (like Ganja) to create security buffers while all Western people look other way as they did in 1990s. That was why they put check point on Lachin corridor, to stop inflow of weapons. Iran was very keen with sending arms to them, Azerbaijani intelligence had numerous evidence. If you doubt they were using Lachin corridor for weapons transport just look up in the internet, BBC just recently reported of the amount of weapons that they handed over to Azerbaijani army after they surrendered in September 2023 (I specifically recall BBC mentioned half the size of a football field full of surrendered weapons and that was still not all of the weapons). Some specifics of those arms showed they were made as recently as November 2021 in Russia and Iran. Where they had got them from if not through Lachin corridor? Why no one mentions this when they talk about stories of people being malnourished as a result of Lachin check point? Where else on earth 120,000 people (although that turns out it was actually ~100,000 people) needs that many weapons? If we look at the whole picture with critical thinking, we'd be able to make sense why Armenians now are leaving, not because of ethnic cleansing by anyone, but it is something that they brought onto themselves, and they know it better than anyone. I am still optimistic there could be some future talks for some form of solution: perhaps a land swap deal between Azerbaijan and Armenia, to bring back people of Karabakh to their home, but this requires real concessions from all parties particularly from Armenians. Perhaps Armenians need to learn it is not always heroic to be stubborn, sometimes a seemingly big concession from one party can bring more precious peace that can last in the long term.

@AlPaci

7 ай бұрын

Great analysis! 👍

@rufatiwe

7 ай бұрын

Wow. First time I see such informed opinion in english speaking community. I dont agree with the part that every ethnic group has the right tp create self rule, but I might be biased as I am Azerbaijaini. The problem with thay logic is that no country is ethnically pure, perhaps apart from Armenia, so all borders are potentially subject to endless change. For instance, there are Azerbaijanis in Georgia, in Iran and there were in Armenia. There are Georgians, Armenians, dagestani lezgi and many other ethnic groups in Azerbaijan. Apart from that part, everything you said are mere facts that people just consciulously ignore. Well done.

@salamov963

7 ай бұрын

Well said brother well said its all 2 faced western media doesnt cover those real things in the past

@turanturk3234

4 ай бұрын

Ogulsan❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Thank you, prof Ker-Lindsay. Your knowledge and analysis of the situation is convincing. People leave their houses and go to nowhere if they feel unsafe. Armenians will never feel and be safe in Azerbaijan. History is repeating itself

@turan8

7 ай бұрын

This yes history has repeated itself. Armenia allied itself against Turkiye with Russia and attacked Turkiye which caused their massacres during WW1. In 1990s they did the same thing but had severe Russian assistance so they were successful. However they miscalculated and assumed Russians would always protect them. History repeated itself in WW1 and 1993 but luckily 2023 is a new age and Karabakh question is finally solved.

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you. This is why it is absolutely vital to see what happens now. Any talk of keeping Armenians in Azerbaijan means nothing without firm policies to that end.

@Kalimdor199Menegroth

7 ай бұрын

@@turan8 There was no Armenian state back in WW1. Some Armenians mostly those living in Russia were conscripted into the Russian army. There was no massacre of the Armenians, but a genocide. Over 50% of the global Armenian population died thanks to the Ottoman Empire. Also, most of those killed had no connection with Russia, neither with the Armenian resistance. They were Armenians living far away from the front line. Justifying your barbarous act of genocide against innocent people because some joined Russia in the war is abhorrent.

@turan8

7 ай бұрын

@@Kalimdor199Menegroth BS. That’s all that you just said. Grandiose verbiage. By a hypocrite people and nation.

@Kalimdor199Menegroth

7 ай бұрын

@@turan8 In the absence of arguments, your statement is bullshit. But this is all you can. Hypocrites are those who pretend to hold the moral high ground while their modern statehood is built on genocide.

We shouldn't drop our eyes of Azerbaijan. They're still eyeing the idea of seizing armenian lands such as the Zangezur corridor. Azerbaijan even started applying their own variant of the russian Z swastika - an upside down letter A. A huge red flag on where the Aliyev regime is drifting towards to.

@phaedon3408

7 ай бұрын

Correct. But remember: behind Azerbaijan there is a bigger beast. You have to watch its moves too. Its flag is waving all over Azerbaijan.

@stonebeetle006

7 ай бұрын

@@phaedon3408 Sultan Erdogan? 🙄

@professorquarter

7 ай бұрын

They profit greatly from remaining on at least amenable-enough terms with Russia, Israel, the West, Turkey, and Iran. With Armenia turning away from Russia due to the failure of Russian peacekeeping, they surely want to score some points with Putin where possible while still profiting off of the changed LNG dynamics from the Ukraine war.

@ribrahimov

7 ай бұрын

What in the conspiracy theory is this comment 😂. Aliyev regime is not some sort of n**i fascist regime. You are talking like we are in WW2 or something. The reverse A stands for victory and Azerbaijan, that's all. "Red flag", you westerners are way too goofy tbh.

@phaedon3408

7 ай бұрын

​@stonebeetle006 Right

I haven’t seen anyone make a distinction yet between what seems to me the obvious possible divergence in official policy of the Azerbaijani state versus the individuals that will now have authority over the area. Armenians had every reason to fear for their lives since they’re now unarmed and defenceless and there is no international presence to keep Azeri authorities in check to ensure their safety.

@ih-p7914

7 ай бұрын

Russian " peace keepers" there. Russia was one who established country-project armenia. Armenians angry on russians that, this time, they did not help them to fight with Azerbaijan , as normally russia did. Russia is busy now in Ukraine. So armenians got offended and turned their face to europe and usa

@calinative5302

7 ай бұрын

Aliev will end up losing it all l like Saddam watch.

@firebird4491

7 ай бұрын

@@ih-p7914 You're just straight up denying that Armenia's statehood is legitimate? Not even just Nagorno-Karabakh?

@zaynosman5162

7 ай бұрын

I mean Armenians didn't show mercy when they had the upper hand so it is understandable if they fear revenge right now

@ih-p7914

7 ай бұрын

​​@@firebird4491right now armenian state is legitimate by international law. If u can read , then read again what i wrote. Armenia was established by russians on territories of Azerbaijan. First was given Irevan khanate , during Russian tsar, then was given Zangezur, by USSR-Moscow-russian rulers. Documentation was done according to law, but no one asked Azerbaijanians if they do agree to pass piece of their Motherland to new appeared neighbors. So by international law armenia now has legitimate country. And Azerbaijan do not putting claim on their territory. It's armenia who claim territories from Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkiye and even russia. And by the way, USA every year gives your tax money to armenia, which armenia spending to plant mines on Azeri lands. There 1 million mines planted on Azerbaijany lands by armenians, which every day killing Azeries. AZERBAIJANIAN LIVES MATTER ALSO

Very informative video, Professor Ker-Lindsay. A small correction if I may. The conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh was THE first ethnic conflict that flared up in 1988 when the USSR still existed in its full form. Karabakh was a truly remarkable historical episode because of the shock it caused. alngside with Sumgait massacre, it was very intense. The sense of disbelief was truly immense. For many, it was the very first realisation of the fact that "a happy family of soviet nations" was very far from reality. Karabakh and Abkhasia (1989) were two very important factors that triggered the collapse of the USSR. A little boy, I was running with my siblings up the hill, trying to escape from bullets... no soviet propaganda would make us loyal to the regime...

@roughdiamond7491

7 ай бұрын

Sumqayit massacre? How about you also mention Kafan, and other towns in Armenia where predominantly Azerbaijani population faced murder and ethnic cleansing! How about Khodjlay! That was a massacre!

@Laura7233

7 ай бұрын

Это ты спасибо скажи своим соплеменникам, и не пришлось бы бежать.

The history of Zangezur (Syunik province) is marked by a tragic episode in 1987 when the predominantly Azerbaijani population was forcibly displaced by Armenians, resulting in the grim occurrence of ethnic cleansing. Over 200,000 people were tragically turned into refugees during this period. Subsequently, in the early 1990s, Armenian forces occupied not only Karabakh but also seized control of 7 regions within Azerbaijan. This occupation led to the forced displacement of a large Azerbaijani population, with a staggering number of over a million people becoming Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) and refugees. Armenia, which is now 99% inhabited by Armenians, has never offered the Azerbaijani population the opportunity to return, compensation, or reintegration. This stands in stark contrast to Azerbaijan, a nation with a rich history of diverse ethnic groups living together for centuries, including Talysh, Lezgins, Jews, Avars, and many others. Azerbaijan now seeks reintegration efforts, emphasizing the importance of reconciliation and coexistence in the region.

@vendetta-9867

7 ай бұрын

👍

@morticiaaddams4659

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for mentioning this. For some reason the world keeps silence about 1 million azerbaijanian refugees, who ran in winter bear footed, with children. Many died en route. The world kept silent. They were literally running away, not in the manner armenians quitely leave at their own will with all hep, in cars, busses, etc. Where is objectiveness?

@vendetta-9867

7 ай бұрын

@@morticiaaddams4659 ❤🙏

@heavent883

6 ай бұрын

so the historical buildings that are 1000 years old that were built by Armenians, are occupied by Armenians? we are talking about Nagorno-Karabakh here not other places. you can't really say that since those buildings are older than your country and your ethnic groups everybody knows that Armenians lived for more than 1,000 years there like when the Babylonian empire exited they were mentioned by them, they are one of the earls indo-European while you are a Turk from the east of Asian that migrated, so you can't call them occupier because that like me migrated to European countries then they kick me out and I started calling them occupiers.

Realistically, whether you like the regime or not, Azerbaijan played this extremely well. They knew Russia was weak and wouldn't do anything, they know the West is preoccupied with Ukraine and won't do anything, so they besieged Artsakh until their men were weak, hungry, and lacking even basic supplies, let alone weapons. It's easy to see in hindsight the blockade was the pretext for war, just like an old fashioned siege, and badda boom badda bing, they took it back. And, for good measure, the world essentially sees this as Azerbaijan taking back their own land. It's a cold brilliant strategic move.

Welcome back, great video as always!

Azerbaijan: I am not committing Genocide... They are leaving themselves"

@hertersarel

7 ай бұрын

Speechless, euphemism to the max

James never disappoints! As for the ethnic cleansing intimidation often does not require direct actions or very vocal threats For example when the Greek army retreated from eastern Thrace ( the modern day European part of Turkey) the local Greek population literally fled the area in panic without a single shot being fired They just couldn't trust the Turkish authorities.. An other question is, do we decide if it's an genocide or an ethnic cleansing or something else by the means that was used or the outcome?

@joqqeman

7 ай бұрын

Objective, methods AND outcome.

@pln9999

7 ай бұрын

Where was the European media when the Armenians were terrorizing Karabakh? When Azerbaijan takes revenge Where was this European media when Armenians were killing civilians in French media is hypocritical Qarabağ is Azerbaijan

@skyblader

7 ай бұрын

Probably Greeks were afraid of what they did to the Turks when they had the army with them.

@giorgismaximos8662

7 ай бұрын

The Greek army was ordered by allies to withdraw from Eastern Thrace , not a single shot was fired and the place was given to the turks ! The population left because Greeks had experienced geno cide by the turks like Armenians It is at least ethnic cleansing , Azeris forced them to leave by blockade , hunger and finally military attack

@samuellanghus1455

7 ай бұрын

See, that’s what I don’t get: I wouldn’t call it “cleansing” if there is no initiation by the alleged offending party: “Ethnic Cleansing” implies active steps taken to remove a select population solely by virtue of immutable qualities. I very strongly dislike that there are allegations of “ethnic cleansing” without putting forth specifics of said allegations. Why is there nothing provided about Armenia’s specific grievances alleged against the Azerbaijani armed forces or police? Then _perhaps_ one could potentially discover particular details of any such incident(s) and attempt to either put to bed any questions of wrongdoing, or uncover them in full to the world?

@JamesKerLindsay the Yugoslav War, the Iraq War, and the Afghanistan War. Millions of innocent people were killed and many times more displaced by the USA and EU, and none blamed them for an ethnic cleansing. All these are great examples of how international law works. The USA and NATO taught us how to settle conflicts over territories, resources, etc. " Might makes right". Armenia used it during the First War when they were better equipped and by blindness (or hypocrisy) of the international community, and Azerbaijan had internal political turmoil. They took not only NKAO territory but also occupied the surrounding 7 districts by displacing under the gunpoint around 600k ethnic Azerbaijani. No sanctions were applied. Azerbaijan's government got notes and liberated its own land without killing thousands of civilians, and the decision to leave was made by Armenians themselves. Even the UN admitted that by now. This show by the Western media and by European politics is for gas prices, they will use "ethnic cleansing " accusations to get better deals over Azerbaijani natural resources like gas and oil and to pull Azerbaijan from its neutrality to a more pro-west. It's not about the Azerbaijani-Armenian conflict, it is more about the West vs. East. No one cares about Armenians, if they cared they would recognize separatists long ago, like they did with Kosovo. They are tools, the lowest figures in a big chess game to rule the world. divide et impera.

I think that Azerbaijan has committed ethnic cleansing but not a direct one but when it put the armenian population to starve by forbidding the arrive of food and supplies and then releasing an attack, I think that those two actions triggered the minds of armenians that there was no possible agreement in which they could live with safety in Nagorno-Karabaj. Thank you for the analysis!

@elitemangudai1016

7 ай бұрын

Ethnic cleansing was carried out in 1992…. by Armenia…..

@The123somerandomguy

7 ай бұрын

@@elitemangudai1016 And it's being done right now.... by Azerbaijan.....

@murmurha2084

7 ай бұрын

they smuggled in arms nd ammunition, so azerbacan rightfully wanted to control it, no food forbidden..

@lrctg2361

7 ай бұрын

Right. So it seems the international community likely acting on a narrow interpretation of the "law" then followed the path of least resistance on the matter. In other words, it *was* a quick and dirty decision with no regard for Self Determination for Nagorno Karabakh.

@scorpiogirl0784

7 ай бұрын

This is exactly what is happening to my people by the hands of the Azerbaijanian government. Thank you for taking the time to learn and understand what happened instead of listening to the fake lies the Azerbaijani people and government are spreading online.

In 2020 during the war, an Armenian civilian chose to stay and put his trust that Azerbaijani troops would not harm him. He was tortured, decapitated, and his head was put on a carcass while Azeri soldiers laughed about it. There is a video of the whole thing, it's quite gruesome. There are countless events like this. Also, in 2012, the Azerbaijan government bribed the Hungarian government into giving them into custody an Azerbaijani, Ramil Safarov, who had been convicted to life in prison for killing an Armenian in his sleep for the simple fact of being Armenian. After arriving in Azerbaijan he was immediately pardoned, given a hero's welcome, and financially compensated for his actions. This is why Armenians fear staying under Azerbaijani rule. Insinuating they had any real choice in staying or not is quite frankly insulting to these people

@KonigGustavAdolph

7 ай бұрын

You can't think of any other reasons, huh? Maybe Khojali or any of the hundreds of thousands of Azerbaijanis whom were forced to flee?

@markdowding5737

7 ай бұрын

@@KonigGustavAdolph I have had this conversation online countless times and my response is always the same. BOTH Armenians and Azerbaijanis committed atrocities during the first war (and in the second also). One case does not justify the other nor vice-versa. Khojaly was terrible in the same way Maraga was also terrible. We need to stop doing whataboustism and be willing to criticize each side when they commit something wrong

@KonigGustavAdolph

7 ай бұрын

@markdowding5737 You are absolutely correct. But you didn't mention any of the atrocities coming from Armenia. The reason that bothers me is that your comment read too close to so many other "Poor Armenians/Evil Azeris" comments I have read over the years. Armenians leaving NK are making the safe bet. But WHY they think they should leave sure as Hell involves them not wanting the Azeris to do to them what they did to the Azeris.

@markdowding5737

7 ай бұрын

​@@KonigGustavAdolph "But you didn't mention any of the atrocities coming from Armenia" Because it was not relevant to the point I was making. Just because I don't talk about them it does not mean I do not acknowledge them. "sure as Hell involves them not wanting the Azeris to do to them what they did to the Azeris" ethnic cleansing is wrong and should be prevented regardless of who does it or what happened 30 years ago. If you go by "this father's dude did something to my father so I am gonna do the same to him in revenge" then we are doomed to perpetual war and ethnic hatred.

@gokhanakay8446

7 ай бұрын

@@iranianfrenchpride8552 we dont want to be tooled by america-israel to get in fight with Iran. We wil win surely but we know it will be Pyrrhic victory. ''Le gangneur sera a la fois le perdant'' Iran and irani people (persian) has great place in our history both in positive and pegorative way. Turks adopted iranian bureaucracy, islamic perceptions¬ions imported from irani version. Iran and Turkey could only exist (survive) together. One day if there is no Iran in the map next day there will be no Turkey and the opposite is valid. So don't feed america-israeli inspirations to tool Turkey for an operation on Iran. Persian diplomacy is old and one the best in the world history.

Armenians winning a war=justice Armenians losing a war=genocide Wherever armenians are=armenia😂 A neighbor 🇦🇿 taking control of its INTERNATIONALLY recognized borders=genocidal blockade and mass starvation???? Cmon!!!

@samirzemmache

7 ай бұрын

Thats the hypocrisy of the west unfortunately… the Brits and the Russians and the french had always since centuries supported Armenia against the Turks and they will continue to do so …

In 1974, Turkish forces occupied Northern part of Cyprus and forced all non-Turks to leave the North of that tiny island and to this day no one in the international community has dared challenge that action simply because they are part of NATO (so called good guys). In the case of Nagorno-Karabakh, if the Russians were the ones attacking Armenians, the whole Western Hemisphere would be yelling and screaming and Arming the Armenians to the teeth. Given that Azeris have oil and Armenians don’t, it’s not difficult to see which side will be supported the most!

@Rhodesian-Ridgeback.

7 ай бұрын

You mean the massacres of Turks in Maratha, Santalaris and Aloda perpetrated by the Greeks? When the Greek terrorist group "EOKA-B" killed 80 Turks in Tochni? The Bloody Christmas event where hundreds of Turks were killed and thousands of other Turks were displaced? The assassination of US Ambassador Rodger Paul Davies? The coup d'état against Makarios III where that same Neo fascist group, EOKA-B, also participated with the help of the Greek military junta?

@Gemini-yi1kc

7 ай бұрын

It is very biased to leave out the ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots via marking houses, violence and forced migration out of the island.

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

Turkiye had to intervene according to guarantee agreement to prevent Turkish Cypriots from being massacred by the Greek Cypriots. It was totally legal intervention according to international laws.

No one covers the case of Palestines leaving their homeland but will someday when it's the other way around.

Ukraine and especially Azerbaijan have normalized reestablishing sovereignty over their internationally-recognized borders by force. I have to wonder what this might mean for Kosovo. It would be a bit hypocritical to bomb Serbia if it invades Kosovo, but not to bomb Azerbaijan for invading Nagorno-Karabakh.

@karrole88

7 ай бұрын

Nagorno karabakh is internationally recognised territory of azerbaijan.

@carla_del_ponte

7 ай бұрын

@@karrole88 So was kosovo, yet Serbia still got bombed for trying to impose its sovereignty.

@AVV_Beats

7 ай бұрын

So North Cyprus does not exist.

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

@@AVV_Beats It does exist because Greek Cypriot refused unification referandum in 2004 while Turkish Cypriot voted in favour of unification.

@bilic8094

7 ай бұрын

If Azerbaijan and Ukraine have the right to take back their sovereignty by force nobody should complain if Serbia lines up it's tanks and artillery ready to take back kosovo.

So much has happened in the mere week since you posted this video, that it would be fruitful to hear your updated analysis of this situation.

Next you'll say that what happened to the Sudeten Germans wasn't ethnic cleansing because the Czech Republic was reasserting its internationally recognized borders. Not saying that one side or the other is right, or that both sides haven't shed unnecessary blood, just that it's pretty obvious what's going on here.

@skp8748

7 ай бұрын

That's exactly what Azerbaijan is doing... reasserting control of it recognised borders

@toi_techno

7 ай бұрын

The Sudetan Germans were a planted population like the Armenias living in Azerbaijan I moved to Ireland as a 7 year old English kid. I'm now a 43 year old Irishman with no particular interest in English history or culture #Armenians like Russians and the Scots Protestanst in the occupied north of Ireland (and the SYdetan Germans) don't do what I did. If you emigrate you assimilate or go home. You certainly don't take over.

@LuisMesa1

7 ай бұрын

@@toi_techno The region of Artsakh has been ethnically Armenian for over a thousand years, with both ethnicities coexisting there for around five hundred years... That is to say, Armenians were not "planted" here. In the last century, this region was arbitrarily incorporated into the Azerbaijan SSR by the Soviet Union, yet granted autonomous region status within Azerbaijan. This is the source of the conflict, the region has long been overly ethnically Armenian and relatively independent. The root of the issue is not "emigration" without assimilation, as you suggest, but shifting geopolitical borders and circumstances that have at one time or another left both Azeris and Armenians who claim it as their homeland displaced.

Couldn't wait for this opinion...James great to see you back in action..

It is definitely ethnic cleansing, as the use of force or even threat of it against the ethnic Armenian population of Nagorno-Karabakh, coupled with the effective blockade of Nagorno-Karabakh for months, causing food and pharmaceutical shortages, the Armenians have been essentially forced to leave. Azerbaijan is simply hiding behind its finger at this point. Just because they have sovereignty over an area, doesn't mean they have the right to genocide the population, or to annul its autonomy. Autonomy for Nagorno-Karabakh was guaranteed during the Soviet times, and the abolition of said autonomy was the cause of the entire conflict, on top of being an aggressive stance that understandably terrified the Armenians

@user-px4kw2hn7d

7 ай бұрын

Yes, as well as over 1 million azerbaijani refuges. The armenian can leave Karabakh by the bus and their own cars, compared to azerbaijani refuges, which were forced to flee barefoot in the snow under the armenian shelling. Type Khojally massacre and see what did this "poor" armenian to azerbaijani refuges

@Ukit50

7 ай бұрын

UN declare no sign of ethnic cleansing and force deportation. It their freedom of choice, to stay or move out

thanks for this James!! much appreciated!!!!

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you.

Great video!

Prof James, please do Sabah and Sarawak next, there has been rising sentiments of secession from Malaysia as a result of historical grievances. The formation of Malaysia was supposed to be about prosperity within the federation. But after 60 years of the formation of Malaysia, Sabah and Sarawak became underdeveloped and marginalised instead in which we were supposed to have our own autonomy over our own affairs and our natural resources under the Malaysian Agreement 1963 but unfortunately, it seems that our rights have slowly been eroded because of a constitutional amendment in 1976 which downgraded us to mere states same status as the West Malaysian states which violated the Malaysian Agreement 1963 and also the West Malaysian government for years have been siphoning off our resources just to develop the western part of Malaysia and left Sabah and Sarawak to the gutters. And these factors why there have been rising nationalist movements like Aspiration Party, Sarawak for Sarawakian, Parti Bumi Kenyalang and more calling the formation of Malaysia as a failure and want to declare it as “null and void” since there have been too many violations of the MA63 agreement.

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you much. I really would love to do this. (My late father grew up in Brunei and spoke fluent Malay.) Let me look into it.

@Ahmad_Suhairi

7 ай бұрын

Hey allied brothers, greetings from Indonesia. The history of our country (Sabah, Sarawak and Indonesia) has a few black spots in the past, but that is the past, I hope that in the future the relationship between the two countries will be better.,And the welfare of each people

@lazydude8066

7 ай бұрын

I hope you will resolve all issues and problems in Malaysia in a way that satisfies all parties, and then you can live in peace and friendship. My family vacationed in Malaysia, and they liked this country, the hospitality of the people and the nature of Malaysia. Greetings from Uzbekistan

@saint-miscreant

7 ай бұрын

​@@JamesKerLindsayI hope you'll touch on the process of Merger to form Malaysia. There was a not-insignificant amount of British meddling in the process, mostly about Singaporean independence but Sabah and Sarawak were also not considered strong enough to become independent countries hence the Federation. plus the whole communism thing. Very typical decolonisation problems! Also, I'm not too knowledgeable about Sabah and Sarawak, and I don't think racial tensions have played as much of a role in their relations with Malaya/peninsular Malaysia as was the case in Singapore. But I know that many of Malaysia's minority ethnic and/or religious groups are located in Sabah and Sarawak - there might be an ethnic dimension to the politics there worth exploring?

It's appalling to think that Azerbaijan built a new corridor freeway just to facilitate the exodus of Armenians.

@sukmapradana7812

7 ай бұрын

If they don't built, and traffic accident happened, i am pretty sure they will blame on azerbaijan again as part of Ethnic Cleansing. 😁

@AdamSahr-cj4kf

7 ай бұрын

@@sukmapradana7812 What was really appalling is what took place in NK in 1991. Are you suffering from amnesia?

@AlexP-mi2bc

7 ай бұрын

If you are appalled by it propose a solution. If the western people quite often agree among themselves during divorce when the relationships get sour, then how can you judge the entire nation as to what is right and what is wrong?

In Bosnia, 'ethnic cleansing' involved brutal war crimes, mass executions, death camps and rape camps. Is any of this happening in Azerbaijan?

@neophilosophy1764

7 ай бұрын

Not at all. They were allowed to leave peacefully, in their cars, and with millions of dollars in aid. They were allowed to come back. Definitely not the same as.anything in the 90s.

@mkiller1001

7 ай бұрын

ummm yes, recorded and verified beheadings, raping dead bodies and food blockade for almost a year.

@luongo7886

7 ай бұрын

100 years ago, the Turkic peoples MURDERED OVER ONE MILLION ARMENIANS and thousands of Greeks. So of course Armenians are scared of another repeat. After all, who in their right mind can trust muslims?

@milostomic8539

7 ай бұрын

There were no death camps in Bosnia from 1992 to 1995. There were, however, during the Second World War.

Thank you Professor Ker Lindsay for taking an early look at a still-developing but seemingly consequential event. Given your experience, I wonder how you think this compares to something like Operation Storm? Also, with Russia’s weakening power, it seems possible this may happen again in Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Transnistria, and even Crimea or the Donbas republics, so I’m wondering how you believe situations like this should be handled moving forward? Thanks as always for an informed look at the situation!

@sk.43821

7 ай бұрын

There is no solution. Either groups get along with each other or not. International court could punish severe incitation of intimidation. Else there is only the tool of diplomacy, peace troops and promotion of love among people.

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thanks. I think the comparisons with Operation Storm are striking! And I see that some have also raised parallels with Kosovo and asked why Serbia was attacked for trying to retake territory, but Azerbaijan wasn’t. To be honest, it is a very fair question. Again the parallels are striking. As for other cases, I wonder if thoughts are going through their minds. Transnistria would be a good possibility. But I think this is complicated by Moldova’s weak armed forces and divided society. Many are still pro-Russian. It could cause some strange shockwaves.

The bigger question is will Turkey and Azerbaijan advance their pan-Turkist agenda, which is unclear. But if they do so, it could have a significant risk to China. While the West has been very frightened by what's going on in South Caucasus, China is deeply worried because of these countries' support for Uyghur separatism in Xinjiang, or as well know it, East Turkestan movement. Despite China being a significant investor to both countries as part of BRI, their undying support for Uyghurs and East Turkestan have always been a source of friction and the fact that Turkey and Azerbaijan have refused to hand Uyghur nationalist leaders to China is enough for Beijing to view both with distrust. This is extremely important because Turkey and Azerbaijan have a significant weight in Central Asia, where four out of five are Turkic-speaking countries. If Armenia is defeated in Karabakh, it won't be China's matter. But if Armenia is conquered and an Ottoman Empire rebuilding project begins, it will be a very different story. This could threaten to destabilise Xinjiang, and, from what I learnt, China has doubled down troops and police presence in Xinjiang, while limiting any information that celebrate Azerbaijani victory over Armenia in social media since it could stir Turkic nationalism in the region. It's possible that China's role in brokering Saudi Arabia-Iran normalisation may also directly target Turkey, since both Saudi Arabia and Iran view Turkey as an adversary. Tough time ahead here for Armenians, but it could be a game changer moment.

@vusalgs8484

7 ай бұрын

I am curious how a small country like Azerbaijan can create danger to stability in China. It is ridiculous

@huwenkai440

7 ай бұрын

@@vusalgs8484 Not about Azerbaijan’s win. It is rather butterfly effect. Uyghurs share similar kinship with Azerbaijan and Turkey. Plus in Central Asia, Uyghurs are present. Chinese citizens are largely sympathetic to Armenia. But its Turkic minority population is pro-Turkish and sees China as an occupant. Turkic-Chinese feud has dated back for centuries. So China is keen to know what’s next. If Azerbaijan stops in Karabakh, nothing more. But if Turkey and Azerbaijan believe they should restore their Ottoman state, the stake will be a possibility of a Chinese reaction. Overall, the Uyghur question is still vivid.

@carla_del_ponte

7 ай бұрын

Smartest comment on this video. This guys understands geopolitics on a deeper level.

@gokhanakay8446

7 ай бұрын

@huwenkai440 omg, you have large imaginary i appreciate that. I was thinking one day chineese navy would practice joint manoeuvres with turkish navy in Med Sea. Your foe is in Pacifics. Centuries before you built up the Great Wall and stopped the 'turkics'. Did you forget? China is in safe in continental borders Azerbaijan, Turkey or others all together have less than your economy. You have baseless fear. ' Sincan ' is east turkistan and maternal-paternal lands of turkics, is true. As long as China stop assimilation and cultural annihilation and fablous torture, turkics will have less interest on 'Sincan'. Saudi Arabia's finance- since americans ordered them to support ouighurs - and unhumain treatments of Beijing regime radicalised ouighurs as you know already. Turkey and turkic countries are strongly tied to one China policy in matters of Taiwan and they have distant relations with India. You are radaring wrong mine fields my dear friend. Watch out the oceans! ;)

@bilic8094

7 ай бұрын

It all depends Iran and Russia will smoke em both if they have interest.

Thanks Prof 👍🏻👍🏻. Excellent as always!

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you so much Peter. A difficult topic to cover, in all sorts of ways. But important to discuss.

@pln9999

7 ай бұрын

Where was the European media when the Armenians were terrorizing Karabakh? When Azerbaijan takes revenge Where was this European media when Armenians were killing civilians in French media is hypocritical

@gokhanakay8446

7 ай бұрын

And you covered masterfully in quarter hour. Thank you.

The term genocide was coined by Rafał Lemkin. A Polish lawyer.

@sunshine8556

7 ай бұрын

A Polish Jewish lawyer in 1943.

@BeautySavesWorld

7 ай бұрын

Yes, it was coined to define what happened to Armenians by Azeri Turkish Ottoman ancestors. And we can see they are still at it..

@jezalb2710

7 ай бұрын

@@BeautySavesWorld Kurds were at it too

Great video as always, very balanced and thorough

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you very much indeed.

You forgot to mention that Azerbaijan provided humanitrian aid to the Armenians of Karabakh but the separaist regime blockaded that aid and insitsed on opening the Lachin road direvtly to Armenia in order to be able to continue receiving weapons and soldiers from Armenia. You also forgot to mention that during the 28 years of peace talks, Azerbajjan was offering an autonomy to Karabakh Armenians but they refused time after time because they wanted to keep all the regions they occupied around Karabakh as well. Azerbaijan resorted to military action in 2020, after Armenian Prime Minister visited occupied Karabakh and stated that Karabakh is Armenia, and period! By doing so, he showed that this cannot be solved by talks any longer And Azerbaijan reaorted to the latest military action, after 3 years of trying to negotiate peace with the separatists. Again, the separatists refused all 3 years and demanded independence only even though no one in the world (even Armenia) recognized their regime and independence as legitimate. And lastly, during the 24 hours, Azerbaijan only hit military targets and no civilians were targetted. There is aboslutley zero evidence that any armenian civilians got hurt. Zero. These are just rumors dossiminated by the separatists with absolutely zero proof.

@naltun4702

7 ай бұрын

The amount of verifiable, refutable evidence to go against so much of you said is laughable. The propaganda wing of the Aliyev dictatorship sure is strong. Try proxying your web search out of Az*rbaijan and you will see a wealth of non-state sponsored media, and you'll gain new perspectives.

When listening to you in 2020. I remember noticeably hearing you say that the independence of Artsakh was over. I refused to believe it as i knew people from there and this analysis was too big for me to realise. But at the end you were sadly correct. Can you help me with one question? How possible is peace now when the Karabakh issue is solved and what is the likleyhoof for Azerbaijan to demand the zangezur corridor? What is the likleyhood of Azerbaijan now attacking Armenian territory of syunik and trying to get a corridor by force? How will the international community and especially iran react. Is it probably according to you? Anyways thanks allot been waiting for this video literally the whole week.

@MAZESUSA

7 ай бұрын

Если хотите вместо него я отвечу))

@Max-nt5zs

7 ай бұрын

I’ve wondered about that corridor as well. I don’t think the Azeri’s will be able to make an attempt on it since that kind of provocation would be on the same level as the invasion of Ukraine or Iraq. Azerbaijan doesn’t have any claims to it either. I wouldn’t say it’s impossible given the global mood but it’s unlikely, since it would probably turn Azerbaijan into a pariah state.

@centaurkt047

7 ай бұрын

Azerbaijan will Wait for a while before a very slow attempt to control those lands are made. No international community are going to support them with weapons . Armenia has less significance in the global stage than Azerbaijan sadly . Support from Russia and turkey are the real forces that dictate this power dynamics. Armenia is a land locked nation with very few resources. They will be at the receiving end for a long time to come .

@user-pl3wi8cb6w

7 ай бұрын

During these 30 years, Armenia was the one who occupied Azerbaijan’s int’l recognized territories with rejecting to obey any int’l rules, UN resolutions. Now you worry about if Azerbaijan attacks Zangezur (aka Syunik) ? Armenia should’ve though about it before, not when the balance of power already changed. According to 2020 agreement, Armenia should provide corrdidor between Nakhchivan and rest of Azerbaijan. Either they will do it voluntarily or Azerbaijan will get it by using power of army

@ozzyozboy6471

7 ай бұрын

In the ceasefire treaty signed in 2020 by Armenia and Azerbaijan there was also a agreemant about the corridor through Armenia

Armenia should have thought about consequences when they started to attack another country’s int’l recognized territories. They had another chance during these 30 years to make an agreement with Azerbaijan but they refused. Armenia could benefit a lot economically if they establish good relationship with their neighbours Azerbaijan and Turkey like Georgia did. All those pipelines, trade routes could’ve passed through Armenia but it’s too late. Balance of power changed in the region. Armenia should either accept or accept what Azerbaijan offers. Moreover, one fact. Azerbaijan is multicultural country. While 93% of population are turkic, the rest are lezgins, talish, jews, russians, avars and many minor ethnic groups. But Armenian population consist of 99% of armenians which is enough to explain the situation. Azerbaijani government offers armenians to befome Azerbaijani citizen and continue living in NK as they lived under Azerbaijan SSR before. But it will be hard after all those wars happened lately. Time will show us. Peace to the region!

This is all you need to know to understand why Armenians are leaving: during a NATO English language course in Hungary, azeri officer ramil safarov entered a fellow Armenian participant's room at 5am and hacked him to death with an axe, in his sleep. He was convicted in Hungary, extradited to azerbaijan, where he was acquitted and given the title of a national hero by the president himself. This is how deep the hatred goes for Armenians. This is why the Armenians are leaving "voluntarily".

@morticiaaddams4659

7 ай бұрын

No, they are leaving because many of them orcrelatives were involved in killing their azerbaijanian neighbours 30 years ago, taking their homes and properies, supporting separatists and terrorists on that territory. One azerbaijanian rdfugee from Hojali was telling how many of her former neighbours in Karabakh participated in violences. They run away because of their past deeds. Stiries like Ramin is one off, Armenia has similar even worth- Sarksyan who boasted of Hojali killing and is by fact military criminal, became prime minister/ president of Armenia. And saying nothing about Ndge , naci, who is armenian national hero

@grigorharutyunyan9508

7 ай бұрын

@@morticiaaddams4659 I brought one concrete, verifiable and easy-to-check example. You speak generally, which I could also do - for example the Sumgayit killings of Armenians. Sarkisian is not a good guy in my eyes, but I promise you, you will never be able to find any proof that he has ever boasted about Hojali. He may have denied that anything terrible happened there, just like Aliyev has denied anything terrible happening in Sumgayit. But I urge you - just google "azeri soldier beheads..." there are so many pictures of war atrocities with Azeris posing with mutilated Armenian bodies (civilian bodies by the way). I have had Azeri colleagues turn and walk away from me as soon as they found out I am Armenian. At least have the decency of accepting that leaving was the safe choice for the people of Nagorno Karabagh. They just do not want to be killed, simple as that. What comes around goes around, but I would not wish the same thing happen to you, whoever you are.

Prof. Ker-Lindsay, thank you so much for this very informative, accurate and objective explanation! Small clarification, I believe you meant NK fought and won a 6 year war, not 3 years (the war was from 1988-1994). Very lovely to see you post such important information for us all over the globe to learn and reflect upon. Thank you 🙏🏻 - Much appreciation from an Armenian living in NY

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you so much. It is an extremely difficult subject. Emotions naturally run high. It will be a difficult time ahead for Armenia and Armenians. Very good point about the war. NK really began the push for independence in 1988. But the start date of the actual war is usually placed as 1991, as the USSR collapsed and Armenia and Azerbaijan became independent. But you can certainly also argue that it was a six year conflict.

@JN-wr9he

7 ай бұрын

A useful correction, except the war had startes in 1987 when the first azerbaijani refugeea were forcefully expelled from Kafan in Armenia

@qaraqarga5316

7 ай бұрын

​@@JamesKerLindsay100 il boyunca Ermənistandan qovulmuş 2 milyon azərbaycanlı haqqında da görüntü hazırlasanız, yaxşı olar. Əgər sizdə bu hünər varsa, əgər ari irqçisi deyilsinizsə. 1948-53-cü illlərdə Ermənistandan azərbaycanlıların qovulması ilə bağlı görüntü hazırlaya bilərsənmi?

@qaraqarga5316

7 ай бұрын

​​​@@JamesKerLindsay100 il boyunca Ermənistan qovulmuş, etnik təmizləmə aparılmış azərbaycanlılarla bağlı BMT, Avropa şurası hansı qərarlar qəbul etmişdir? 😂😂😂

@azmhyr

7 ай бұрын

@@qaraqarga5316 Niye hazırlasın, garb dünyasında Ermeniler her daim sempati görmüşlerdir. Türk'ün zafer elde etmesi onlar için bir yas günüdür.

You handled this situation with extreme delicacy, so I applauded you for that. Many journalists fail and overstep onto one side creating a biased narrative so well done once again James 😊

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you very much. I realise that many in both sides will not be happy with how I tackled it. But it is important to try to step back from these types of tragic and emotionally charged situations and try to make sense of them from a broader legal and political perspective.

@raffidimoian6961

7 ай бұрын

@@JamesKerLindsay When dealing with two extremely uneven sides (militarily, culturally and otherwise) often the main dilemma is - do I resort to the safety of vanilla bothsideism only in order to cover a very important issue (and minimize risk of accusation in bias by anyone) or do I responsibly and competently speak the truth which is hardly ever in a 50-50 ratio, especially in an uneven conflict such as this - between an ancient culture and democracy and a hereditary dictatorship with zero human rights for its own subjects. During the First Armenian Genocide of 1915, most chose to remain silent about the truth. 100 years later, many still do. Then there are the academicians for whom the process of debate is often the sole goal vastly overshadowing the actual and practical conclusion/verdict. Now during the Second Armenian Genocide of 2020-2023, when the massive propaganda machine of the aggressor is churning as much information war/blackout as much as it has been doing on the ground with nationally glorified beheadings, rape, body mutilations of living and dead people…in THAT reality, I’d argue that academic debates serve no more serious purpose than a cerebral entertainment: how long can I keep my integrity while neither committing a crime nor share the video of the actual criminal committing the crime with the rest of the people. When things are factually obvious - we can debate them or name them as they are and move on to some issues that May actually be hard to judge immediately. Remember RAMIL SAFAROV, the axe beheader of Armenians and national hero of the azerbaijani dictatorship?

I have lost all hope for humanity. 😢

Dear Professor Ker-Lindsay, as much as I respect your great work on this channel, the "both sides" approach to a question such as ethnic cleansing seems mistaken. It would be rare for any state engaged in ethnic cleansing to proudly admit to it. There is hence no surprise about Azerbaijan's denial of the term. Equally, there is no surprise as to why Armenians would leave Nagorno-Karabakh (or Artsakh). They have been subjected to a brutal blockade for over 9 months, as well as longstanding genocidal rhetoric from Baku (as you also mention in your video). I think a more objective view of the situation, which is not to be confused with a "both-sides" account, makes clear that we are seeing here is, in fact, ethnic cleansing. Happening in Europe, in 2023, without any repercussions for those responsible.

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thanks. But this isn’t about ‘both-sidism’. I have always taken the view of calling out parties when they are wrong. But it is important to understand how international law and politics work. Things aren’t always as clear as the sides to a conflict will present them as being. And international law doesn’t always offer us much clarity. That was precisely my point here. Ethnic cleansing is widely used as a term, but is not a formal formal crime. And while some will insist that ethnic cleansing can only happen at one stage and with particular intent, others will argue that it can be the product of a longer period of policies. This channel is about trying to explore the international system. That is precisely why I preface each video with a discussion about an international legal or political issue. It is about using current developments to think about the wider system. This is an important case in point in terms of our understanding of just what exactly constitutes ethnic cleansing, and why there is such a fierce debate over this. But this is just one case amongst many others.

@danielmarwecki3264

7 ай бұрын

Thank you, and I think your channel does a great job at explaining how international law & int. relations work. However, following the 1992 definition of the term by the UN Commission (also adopted by the European Commission), I simply find it hard to describe what we are seeing right now as anything other than ethnic cleansing. It is not only Armenians or their supporters saying this, but many international journalists and experts. That Azerbaijani soldiers are offering water bottles to Armenians leaving is not relevant to this. This is publicity. The relative silence around what is happening by Europe or the US is mostly geopolitical, as you will know better than I do. This is not to deny that we are dealing with a complex conflict that historically involves atrocities on all sides. But what is happening right now is actually not very complex. Hence why I think the question of your video is a bit misleading, or would have necessitated a clearer answer. To be taken as respectful disagreement. I will continue to learn from your videos. @@JamesKerLindsay

Very important topic mr prof

The silence of the European Union regarding the crisis does not explain itself only through indifference to what is happening in the region. No, they actually wanted this exact situation to take place. As long as Armenians stayed in the region there would always be reports of human rights violations and instability which could jeopardize their gas dealings with Azerbaijan. You will never see them admitting this but if you have access to conversations taking place in closed rooms and know how to read between the lines you will see this is quite a prevalent mentality amongst many EU politicians. Basically, no Armenians, no problem. They also hope this situation will lead the Russians to leave the region. They now only expect Azerbaijan to conduct this whole operation in an organized manner, so as not to be too humiliating for them. The current situation is not great but they hope within a couple of weeks everything will be forgotten and they can go back to calling Azerbaijan "a reliable and trustworthy partner" Professor James is a well-informed man and I am sure he is aware of all of this and I feel he has even hinted at it a couple of times. The problem is that authoritarian regimes tend to never quite be satisfied, especially when they smell weakness from the other side. I wonder what excuse will they make once Azerbaijan launches a new attack on Armenia proper and Serbia gets ideas with Kosovo and China with Taiwan. Let's just say I don't think we will get a lack of interesting videos in the near future.

@bilic8094

7 ай бұрын

Your right absolute silence from the eu not a word I'm sure they would of preferred the Russian population leaving Crimea instead of this.

@firestoneproduction5105

7 ай бұрын

So true!

@JN-wr9he

7 ай бұрын

They had kept silent when armenians were exterminating azerbaijanis in those territories and creating a monoethnic state - fitting precisely the ethnic cleansing definition mention by Prof here - so why is it such a big deal now when nothing of the sort has happened, not even close? Had Azerbaijan blocked them from leaving they would have cried murder, they are given the free passage yet they still cry murder (very prefictably). So what was the ‘acceptable’ path in the west’s view - continuation of status quo, which was nothing else but creeping legitimisation of the results of ethnic cleansing already committed by armenians and continues micro-aggression leading to azerbaijanis’ death? Anything else?

@randomhuman5525

7 ай бұрын

If the Westerners continue to meddle in Armenia, Russia will quickly annex Armenia by establishing its own puppet government. What can the West do in this situation? Nothing.

28 years ago, my grandmother and I fled from Karabakh to Aghdam to protect ourselves from the Armenian air attack. 28 years ago there was neither social network nor KZread. Dozens of people died next to me. Mothers even thought of killing their children to avoid capture. We didn't have a car like the people who got out of Khankendin safely now. They disfigured the bodies of children killed in Khochali. Too bad there were no social networks then. We have seen a lot of prejudice in 30 years. we were also human being.

UNinvolved, as usual.

Thanks professor for your details informations.

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Let the European Union and US officials know that the Azerbaijani people have more than one million unarmed innocent citizens who were displaced from their homelands from Karabakh and Haystan, they were subjected to genocide and torture by the Hays. The European Union and the United States ignored the genocide committed by the Hays against the Azerbaijani people in the Khojaly region of Azerbaijan on February 26, 1992. This is unfair and unjust.

@USofA2023

7 ай бұрын

Sumgait and Baku pogroms happened before 1992. Armenians were massacred in their homes. And so much more has happened before and after that. So what now we have to take every bit of history into consideration to know that what we are witnessing here is ethnic cleansing? It is ethnic cleansing by definition, regardless of what happened before this. 🇺🇲

@user-jg3ob6sc6r

7 ай бұрын

The events of Sumgait were a terrible crime prepared by the Armenian employees of the KGB during the USSR. If necessary, they will prove it to you with facts.@@USofA2023

Thank you for a very balanced and thorough-going treatment of a difficult subject. I would, however like to know why the international community decided to recognize the boundaries of the two as they were under the Soviet Union? Those Soviet era boundaries were apparently established very early in the history of the Soviet Union, by someone with no capacity to imagine a time when the USSR would collapse and the boundaries could or would become international boundaries. Was it just a matter of taking a quick and dirty decision? Why wasn't the principle of Self Determination used to allocate sovereignty over Nagorno Karabakh?

@alexgray2482

7 ай бұрын

Each of the Soviet republics succeeded in accordance with the law and so the newly sovereign states inherited the same boundaries as their legal predecessors. That's how Ukraine ended up with Crimea, Azerbaijan with Nagorno Karabakh, Georgia with Abkhazia etc

@lrctg2361

7 ай бұрын

@@alexgray2482 Right. So it seems the international community likely acting on a narrow interpretation of the "law" then followed the path of least resistance on the matter. In other words, it *was* a quick and dirty decision with no regard for Self Determination for Nagorno-Karabakh

@alexgray2482

7 ай бұрын

@@lrctg2361 the issue was and is that if self determination for Nagorno Karabakh was accepted, then the international community would have to accept self determination for every other post soviet region who's ethnic composition did not match with the corresponding republic. So, there would have to be self determination for Crimea, Abkhazia, Transnistria and who knows else It was just easier and simpler for the international community to accept the succession of Soviet republics within their Soviet boundries (which were often quite badly drawn) in accordance with the right of succession in the Soviet Constitution Other than oversees colonies there is no absolute right of self determination in international law, which Prof Ker Lindsey has covered before It's an unfortionate situation, as it leaves minorities like the Karabakh Armenians effectively stranded and at the mercy of states like Azerbaijan, but it is what it is

@hilaryhongkong

7 ай бұрын

Because first of all that's the territories they had upon independence. Secondly, Armenia has never recognized Artsakh as a part of actual Republic of Armenia. So why would the rest of the world recognize it as such?

This is one of the most objective views I've seen, thank you professor. As a Turkish I must say that there is a widespread hatred and distrust among the Azerbaijanis and Armenians. If I were an Armenian living in Karabagh, I wouldn't want to live under Azerbaijani authority. Azerbaijani officials are trying to calm the situation and that's assuring but the problem isn't the government, it is the people. Also, I wouldn't want to live under Armenian authority if I were an Azerbaijani. I congratulate my Azerbaijani brothers and sisters for regaining their territories. I also wish to Armenians and Azerbaijanis peace. The problem is solved and I hope there will be no atrocities between those people.

@kingjayapala

7 ай бұрын

The problem is not solved. Aliyev is now attacking Armenia and threatening to annex Yerevan. Turks are cheering that Azerbaijan will finish their genocide.

Great analysis. Regretfully, there are so many examples around the World where political frontiers are different than ethnic ones. If people can't agree to coexist peacefully (ie Quebec) these conflicts are, and will continue to be, inevitable. In this case the differences were not only ethnical/cultural, but also religious (like Bosnia or Kashmir) which makes the situation much more complicated.

@ShivamSingh-yu5tt

7 ай бұрын

Ohh yes. Kashmir is even worse coz the 2 parties involved there are nuclear powered states and are densely populated. But the good thing is situation in Kashmir is much much better now. Domestic tourists are flowing even some areas of Indo Pak border have been opened for tourists in Kashmir

@BeautySavesWorld

7 ай бұрын

Turkish journalist Uzay Bulut is not playing with words and openly states that her country with its little ethnic brother of Azerbaijan are committing Genocide on Armenians who are indigenous in Artsakh (Nagorno Karabakh). From September 27 to November 10, the Armenian Republic of Artsakh (Nagorno-Karabakh) in the South Caucasus was exposed to a genocidal assault at the hands of Azerbaijan and Turkey. The entire world watched while the aggressors committed many crimes and indiscriminately shelled the indigenous lands of Armenians. Turkey also sent Azerbaijan mercenaries from Syria with known affiliations to Islamic radical groups. This was confirmed by a recent United Nations report, as well as by the testimonies of many Syrian mercenaries and reports by international media outlets. Together with Azerbaijani military forces, they perpetrated war crimes against Armenians. They murdered civilians, injured journalists and targeted homes, forests, hospitals, churches and cultural centers, among other non-military targets. They used white phosphorus and cluster munitions in violation of international law. At least 90,000 Armenians were forced to abandon their ancestral lands in Artsakh as a result. moderndiplomacy.eu/2020/12/16/37624/

@randomhuman5525

7 ай бұрын

@@BeautySavesWorldBla bla.

@BeautySavesWorld

7 ай бұрын

@@randomhuman5525 Your Turkish opinion is the last thing on my mind.

@randomhuman5525

7 ай бұрын

@@BeautySavesWorld Bla bla.

So, NK is an Azerbaijani territory, recognized as such by the international community. It was took by force by Armenia when Armenia was stronger and as I understood from the video, 1 million Azeri people left their homes. Was this ethnic cleansing? Now, it appears Azerbaijan took back its own territory. I understand personal tragedies of Armenian people who live in NK, but, it seems to me, the origin is in the Armenian aggresion when USSR disintegrated.

@abdullahaliabbasi

7 ай бұрын

100% correct and much love and support from Pakistan!

@mehdisgrov7597

7 ай бұрын

Absolutely true. You should also watch the videos about the Khojaly genocide.

@michaelscott5653

7 ай бұрын

Yep, those are the facts of the situation

@strpet27

Ай бұрын

500 thousand Armenians were also forced from Azerbaijan. The 90s were a terrible time and both sides committed atrocities. Armenian aggression was a response to Azeri aggression when they didn’t recognize the referendum of the local population to join Armenia and started attacking them. 1 wrong does not justify another. This was ethnic cleansing just like the events from the 90s were ethnic cleansing.

No doubt! Congrats Prof for yet another unique discussion & presentation of the said matter!!

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you very much.

Armenia itself recently recognised Nagorno-Karabakh as a part of Azerbeijan. Since then it was over for that region.

@marinadadayan8534

7 ай бұрын

Yes , Armenia recognized Karabakh as a part of Azerbaijan under the the gun point. Shame on international community allowing the second Genocide.

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

@@marinadadayan8534 genocide??? really???

@thecoin5394

7 ай бұрын

​@@purposesquashKosovo? 😂

@patrickpatrick-tx8up

7 ай бұрын

@@thecoin5394 This is classical ethnic cleansing such Albanians did to Serbians 1999 when Nato helped them to deport 200k Serbians

@blutube_1234

7 ай бұрын

they didn't really have a choice, armenia can't defend the region and would need to give it up anyways to realign itself with the west as russia has proven to be completely unreliable, it's extremely sad considering what's happening to the armenians who lived there but armenia itself has no better option

This situation reminds of the final days of the war between Croatia and Serbia, with the serbian populated areas to flee, resulting in anywhere from 250k-300k people leaving Croatia

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thanks. A few others have also raised this. The parallels are striking.

@ginjordom6065

6 ай бұрын

That was justice waving them it's peaceful hand goodbye. Something Croats didn't get four years prior to that when Serbs kicked them out first,but no one talks about that. They can thank the likes of their president Vucic for what happened to them. But choosing a warmonger directly responsible for their woe is as ironic as it gets. Now the big difference is that Armenians in Karabakh are older than the Azerbajani themselves by a millenia or so,so the historical context is not the same at all while Serbs in Croatia are as indigenous as Arabs in Judea.

30 years of peaceful efforts from 1992 to 2020 proved to be futile. even after 2020 war nagorno-karabakh issue was not settled peaceful. So it would have been foolish not to intervene militarily.. Azerbaijan has learnt the lesson and took perfect action to protect their territorial integrity.

@USofA2023

7 ай бұрын

"Perfect action" being ethnic cleansing

@montinyek6554

7 ай бұрын

@@USofA2023yes

@Artsakh758

7 ай бұрын

Azerbaijan is 🇮🇷

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

@@Artsakh758 It is not Artsakh anymore, it’s Karabakh and Karabakh is Azerbaijan.

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

@@USofA2023 UN mission visited Karabakh today and confirmed that there is no ethnic cleansing.

Thank you for the truthful overview of the conflict.

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you very much. Hopefully, it will have helped make sense of the strange and uncertain legal and political situation surrounding the recent tragic events, and partly explain why most countries haven’t taken a firm position on what happened (alongside their wider geopolitical interests, of course).

@Laura7233

7 ай бұрын

Сплошная ложь? 😏🤦‍♀️

@Laura7233

7 ай бұрын

@@JamesKerLindsay Автору канала, тебе ненравится правда? 🤦‍♂️

What Armenia did in 1990 is literally called genocide and ethnic cleansing. Azarbaijan did not think of Revenge...and they should be applauded for it.

@markdowding5737

7 ай бұрын

And what do you call the 400 thousand Armenians who were forced to leave Azerbaijan as a result of the 90's war? Mandatory permanent holidays abroad? "Azarbaijan did not think of Revenge" than what do you call killing Armenian civilians and POWs and posting the video online?

Never thought I'd watch a JKL video with a chapter called 'Arguments for and against Ethnic Cleansing'

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thanks. Yes, perhaps that can be misconstrued. The content makes it very clear that this refers to the debate over whether what happened can be considered ethnic cleansing, rather than whether it should have happened!

The exodus is akin to a “positive dismissal”

Armenia should reinvite Russians as the Russians are the only reliable protector of Armenia. Pashiniyan made a serious mistake by going for the Americans who have never helped Armenians. Now perhaps he has learned the lesson.

@Mourad1m

7 ай бұрын

Russia has betrayed Armenia many times before and did it again now! Russia is not a reliable protector at all!

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

Reinvite Russians to where?

@DipakBose-bq1vv

7 ай бұрын

@@demirg To Armenia, as Azerbaijan now want to connect two parts of itself by creating a road through Armenia.

If so many people feel like they must flee their homes that should be a warning,

Wasn't its place as an autonomous region set up before it attempted to break away? It would have remained during the transition into the territory of Azerbaijan then. Was there anything that sparked the independence movement there or was it just that they wanted to be with other ethnic Armenians without leaving their home/territory? Just curious how that situation all started - in a sense which side should be largely to blame.

Heartbreaking

Nagorno-Karabakh, or as it is called in Armenian: Artsakh, has had a continuous resident Armenian population for over 2000 years! Armenian churches and monasteries have stood there since the 4th century. The Turkic peoples, to which the Azeris belong, came from Central Asia only a few centuries ago Armenians have been living in these areas for thousands of years. Armenians lived there before Islam had even been invented. At a time when there was no Azerbaijan and no Türkiye!!! Are you aware that little Asia was taken over by the Turks? There is not a single city or village in the whole of Turkey that they founded themselves

@zulfuqaroa

7 ай бұрын

What the hell are you talking about? Azerbaijan isn't only a turkic state. Azerbaijan's history in caucasus started with Manna state, then Caucasian Albania and atropotena. You cannot ignore thousands of native caucasian people living in Azerbaijan whom are a part of our culture. Many would argue that those "armenian churches" are mostly caucasian Albanian churches. Armenians like to call us just Turks but Azerbaijan isn't a purely turkic nation, nor it claims to be. Most of those Armenians who now live in karabakh(not anymore) were brought by Russian empire to those lands in 19th century. We have legitimate claims over karabakh. And it is in fact AZERBAIJAN.

@lolo-jx8qd

7 ай бұрын

Turks have been in Azerbaijan for over a thousand years. Armenians have been there even longer but at this point, one thousand years or two thousand years are both a really long time ago. Armenia can't use two thousand year old history to justify land grabs today. Armenia is rightfully expelled from Azerbaijani land.

@user-xo3qv5ly6f

7 ай бұрын

Создавать они не умеют, только хватать чужое.

Genocide vs ethic cleaning

I think Russian peace keepers should be considered as well. As they are going to stay there till 2025 , less likely to see any ethnic cleansing , at least till 2025. Armenians leaving , some of them because of fear (they know what they have done in 90s) . some others fought agains Aze, they know they they will be brought to the court.

@USofA2023

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, the little girls and boys and their grandmothers were fighting Azeris so they fled because they were afraid of being brought "to court."

@tomipiriyev

7 ай бұрын

@@USofA2023 thousands of people flee the region, but there is no any evidence that azerbaijanies forcing them . Their son, their fathers will be brought to the court, who fought against the azerbaijan. In 90s azerbaijanies fleed the region by force . They know what they have done, they are afraid because they are afraid of revenge

First of all, thanks for the unbiased and neutral approach to the issue. Although how we call what happened, de-facto, separatist regime was destroyed by Azerbaijan. From the point of view of international law, the countries have nothing to object to. Azerbaijan has restored its sovereignty in its territories recognized by the international community, including UN. As for the exodus of Armenians, yes, it is not pleasant for civilians to be forced to do so. But let's take into account that there was almost no damage to the civilian population and infrastructure. They simply don't want to live under the jurisdiction of Azerbaijan, and this is understandable. It will take years to recover wounds of two nations. But I wish it will happen. 🙏 In conclusion, Azerbaijan will not compromise its sovereignty, and this is its right. I hope that we will not witness such bloody conflicts again between the sides. As for the fleeing Armenians, I hope that the international community, especially the European Union, will provide the necessary support for the Armenians, regardless of the fact that they didn't help our nearly 1 million displaced people for 30 years. I don't want them to live the miserable life like the people of Azerbaijan. Even if we are enemies, my conscience doesn't allow it. Finally, I want to believe that the day when peace and tranquility will be restored in the South Caucasus isn't far away 🕊

Thank you for the coverage, Professor Ker-Lindsay. I would greatly appreciate hearing your insights and evaluations regarding the situation, given your expertise in subjects such as secession, self-determination, state formation, and considering your extensive specialization in related matters. How would you describe the situation, and what terminology would you use to characterize it? I hold the view that Azerbaijan implemented a premeditated policy to achieve the current outcome. They systematically compelled Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh to have no choice but to leave. If one succumbs to Azerbaijan's narrative that the exodus is voluntary due to defeat, one must also address specific questions, such as why Azerbaijan orchestrated protests by 'ecoactivists,' set up a checkpoint in the corridor in defiance of the International Court of Justice's order to ensure unimpeded movement, amassed forces and weaponry along the Nagorno-Karabakh borders, forcibly invaded NK, and launched attacks, bombings, shelling, and killings of Nagorno-Karabakh residents until they surrendered. Consider the emotional toll on those who have lost their loved ones to violence. Who would want to live alongside those who have just killed their children, spouses, or relatives? Who would want to coexist with those who share photos of lost Armenian girls on social media, using them as trophies for rape or other atrocities? If one looks beyond official statements and declarations and examines the harsh realities on the ground, Azerbaijani intentions of complete ethnic cleansing of Armenians from Nagorno-Karabakh becomes evident. Azerbaijan excels at constructing false narratives, manipulating facts, spreading falsified versions of the facts, and consistently deceiving the world. Regrettably, the world appears either unable or unwilling to confront actual reality, fearing potential criticism for failing to fulfill its obligations in preventing international crimes, protecting universal human rights, or punishing those responsible for grave transgressions.

@IK-wx4mn

7 ай бұрын

First Armenia displayed more than a mil Azerbaijanis Wtf you are talking about? What comes around goes around isnt't it? Everything you comment is bullshit, things do not seem as they are if you dont watch the past.

@salamov963

7 ай бұрын

Where were you in 1990s SJW :)

30 years ago, Armenians occupied Azerbaijani lands and committed ethnic cleansing. Azerbaijan should demand compensation for this.

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

I am sure Azerbaijan is currently building a draft to list the damages, deaths and injuries caused by 30 year illegal Armenian occupation and this list will be put on the table during peace negotiations.

"I said that if they do not leave our lands of their own free will, we will chase them away like dogs and we are doing that." Ilham Aliev, October 17, 2020 How should this be interpreted, if not ethnic cleansing? What is so debatable about it? Fascism par excellence! Ne oldu Aliev? All of a sudden, you want the Armenians to stay, because you guarantee their safety? Ne oldu Aliev?

That definition of ethnic cleansing describes perfectly the situation in the West Bank

@annakarazyan1566

7 ай бұрын

And some azerbaijanis always saying that they have Israel as an example, but there are some historical differences.

A common misunderstanding that needs to be addressed is “Stalin gave Karabakh to Azerbaijan” The fact is Stalin didn’t give Karabakh to Azerbaijan. He created a region called Nagorno-Karabakh which was already in Azerbaijan and declared it autonomous within Azerbaijan.

@markdowding5737

7 ай бұрын

Incorrect. Nagorno-Karabakh already existed before the Soviets took over and the Armenians of the region tried to secede from Azerbaijan during the country's short period of independence after WW1. They then asked to be incorporated into Soviet Armenia but Stalin refused for reasons that have long been theorized and discussed.

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

@@markdowding5737 “Armenians of the region tried to secede from Azerbaijan” Above sentence explains all.

@oneway1119

7 ай бұрын

😂😂😂 this dictatorship propaganda is insane ! Let's see how long you will get away with twisting the truth.

@markdowding5737

7 ай бұрын

@@demirg Nakhchivan was taken from Armenia and given to Azerbaijan, partly because it had a slight Azeri majority, partly due to pressure from Turkey. Nargono-Karabakh should have been given to Armenia in return

@demirg

7 ай бұрын

@@markdowding5737 Nope, you’re wrong. Nahchivan, Syunik and Karabakh belonged to Azerbaijan. You can easily see this if you take a look at Azerbaijan’s 1918 borders. Nahchivan and Karabakh were decided to stay in Azerbaijan whereas Syunik was given to Armenia. So, Azerbaijan actually has historical and legitimate rights to claim Syunik as well but they don’t want to if a corridor is given to connect Nahchivan with Azerbaijan proper as agreed in 2020. “The Republic of Armenia shall guarantee the security of transport connections between the western regions of the Republic of Azerbaijan and the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic in order to arrange unobstructed movement of persons, vehicles and cargo in both directions.”

You cant see any civil killing in karabag which was the case İn 1992, thousands of azarbaijan turks were massacred by armenians. Today azerbaijan is entrenching its authority in its legal territories . Question is why any channel did not once asked how armenia kept karabag under invasion for 30 years without any international protest reproach or reprimand

Thank you , professor. You have touched important points but russia is forgotten in this commentary.

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thanks. This is a really large topic. There are all sorts of factors involved that I couldn’t cover. I just wanted to look at the ethnic cleansing debate. As I mentioned at the end, I want to return to the wider political and geopolitical dimensions in another video. I’m hoping to do this fairly soon.

As a content creator on another platform, I sincerely appreciate you putting this together. Thank You!

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thank you! I really appreciate it. I don’t think people realise how much time and effort go into making videos like this - until they try it themselves. 😀

@salamov963

7 ай бұрын

​@@JamesKerLindsayyeah effort to make totally wrong things, why dont you talk about what happened in 1994 you are prof afterall 😂

The original video you covered on this topic really introduced me to this conflict. So thank you although it’s a sad ending for what really is an ancient community in NK

@ararat4943

7 ай бұрын

Not an ending by any means. This is the start of the next war. We defeated them in 1994 wiping out their army and liberating 12,000 SQK territory despite their massive oil wealth and three time the population. We gave them a break accepting a ceasefire. The biggest of our mistakes. We won't make that mistake again. We won't have mercy on them next time.

@lalas2214

7 ай бұрын

It is unfortunately not the end, not even closer! Until the voice and choice of the local armenian population are not respected it is usually not over . Ethnic Armenians living on their ancestoral land for thousands of years, christian religion, culture, freedom and democratic values, will never accept any foreign control not by soviet, nor by muslim azeris or any other dictatorships. It is obvious that both sides have different opinion about their life and things, which is fine. But forceful solutions of one for the other one will eventually backfire. Have you seen road ques of escaping people that leave their homes and things behind they escape on trucks with their kids, elderly, families after surviving starvation and deaths due to the blockade from azeri side , enduring some inhuman and evil life conditions for about a year? forceful escape of up to 100.000 armenian population in just days ! Well does this sounds as an end to anyone? It is obvious that they have left their homes only for now as they’re forced. But the case is far from being resolved! unfortunately the next war is just a matter of time.

@Laura7233

7 ай бұрын

​​@@ararat4943 Привет диванным героям, хорошо воевать лёжа на диване? 🤦‍♂️ Больная нация.

@tjamalzade

7 ай бұрын

you did what you did due to the consistent support from Russia so you should not overlook the political situation of Azerbaijan back then. The country was on the verge of collapse and civil war. No proper (i.e., regular) army participated in the first NK was since the corrupted some military men and a few important political figures were settled to hand over NK. these are the core reasons why Armenia achieved occupying NK in 6 years. If you are so willing to see "next time" instead of seeking for peaceful resolution of this endless conflict, go ahead and establish your partisan military group. @@ararat4943

Thank you for this video. One of the best KZreadrs

After 1915/17 no wonder Armenians rather flee than wait. I would flee.

@KartaL-Turk

7 ай бұрын

Armenians invaded Azerbaijan and expelled 1 million Azerbaijanis from their homes. They did the same in 1915. They tried to invade Turkey, failed and called it genocide. Now they say this about Karabakh :)

Great video! I feel very conflicted about this question. I don't blame Azerbaijan for retaking a breakaway territory, but at the same time I do understand why Armenians would feel pressured to leave Nagorno-Karabakh. I can also understand why they would not want to trust their fate to a dictator. I can understand why it seems like ethnic cleansing to the people caught up in it. I'm glad there's one less frozen conflict in the world, but it's a shame it had to be resolved through force of arms.

@crose7412

7 ай бұрын

@FredoRockwell Yes, when people get caught in the act of stealing, they often "feel pressured to leave". What makes you say Ilham Aliyev is a dictator?

@AVV_Beats

7 ай бұрын

It's not resolved. Aliyev has entangled himself with Turkish, Russian and Israeli interests, and now he will be under pressure to invade and annex parts of Armenia proper.

@crose7412

7 ай бұрын

@@AVV_Beats I used to be under pressure to eat the broad beans on my dinner plate but I didn't do it - pressure can be withstood.

@theotherohlourdespadua1131

7 ай бұрын

It's a "Frozen Conflict", not "Territorial dispute". The former can only be ended through war, the latter can be ended through diplomacy. You can't use diplomacy to end a "Frozen Conflict" due to the nature of the conflict (which is an unfinished war)...

@UserUnkown-do1ji

7 ай бұрын

@FredoRockwell - How come, you call Aliyev dictator, he was elected democratically after his father, with his wife as vice-president. it reminds me of Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceaușescu and his wife Elena Ceaușescu.

In his book “For the sake of cross” Armenian writer and journalist David Kherdiyan who currently lives in Libya proudly recalls crimes committed against Azerbaijani Turks in Khojali. In the 19th and 76th chapters he says; “Sometimes we were obliged to walk on the dead bodies of Azerbaijanis. I remember well, we made a bridge from the dead bodies in order to cross the bog near the place called the Dashbulaq. When I refused to walk on these lifeless men bodies, the major named Seyran Ohanyan ordered me not to be afraid. I obeyed him because caring out the order of the Commander of the higher military rank is one of the military rules. I was compelled to step on the 9-10 aged wounded girl’s chest and crossed the bog. My shoes and trousers were in the blood completely”.

@BeorEviols

7 ай бұрын

Ok, so what point are you trying to make? That a military incursion into civilian areas is justified because if atrocities commited centuries ago? To remind you, armenians also suffered atrocities. What's relevant to this specific conflict is that Nagorno-Karabakh, or Artsakh, has been inhabited by Armenians continually for the last 2000 years in the very least, whoch to remind you is prior to the turkic expansion into the Caucasus and Anatolia. Innocent civilians are not responsible for the actions of soldiers a hundred years ago

@edomin1148

7 ай бұрын

You are playing the same game as azeries used to 10 years ago . Posting Russian quotes and others to diminoze Armenians. But yet, the last 3 years has been nothing but proof who Azeri rulling dictator family and Azerbaijan's allies have been up to. It's time to upgrade your comments rather than put quotes out of context to convince others to take them at face value. I wouldn't do this against Turks.

@goharkhanumian8928

7 ай бұрын

So, where and when the book was published, maybe the author is a fiction?

@notamoonraker

7 ай бұрын

And the point which you are trying to make? Even the Turks in that region itself conquered many tribes and killed many.. Azerbaijani Turks themselves were result of that Turkic raid & conquests. So do that make current event justifiable?

@edomin1148

7 ай бұрын

Akram Aylisli The outspoken Azerbaijani writer exiled in his own country Open democracy 2021

Just like the British with India and Pakistan in August 1947, the two countries were set up for failure with these abysmal borders. Armenia and Azerbaijan have inherited terrible boundaries from the Soviet period.

Will you do a video on the recent spat between India and my country Canada.

@JamesKerLindsay

7 ай бұрын

Thanks. Probably not. I did a video on India and the Khalistan movement fairly recently. Hopefully, this provides a context for what we saw. But I will certainly keep an eye on things.

@RoboticDragon

7 ай бұрын

@@JamesKerLindsay I mustve missed that, I will take a look for it thanks!

THIS IS GENOCIDE!!!

@engelsengels6334

7 ай бұрын

Before you say something learn what’s the genocide .

Thank you Professor for informative video, I learn from you a lot. My Question, Are Kosovo and Karabakh: parallel or different ? I know that Kosovo is recognized by many countries and Karabakh wasn't, but what made Kosovo different from Karabakh.

@milostomic8539

7 ай бұрын

NATO involvement made Kosovo different because even if they (NATO) know they are wrong they won't admit that. You'll never see NATO admitting its mistakes. What they did was a horrible mistake that created a precedent.

There were also many Kurds living in Karabakh (especially in places like Lachin, Gubadli, Kelbajar, Zangilan). Most of them spoke their native language during the Soviet period, as they lived there compactly. It is clear that Armenians call us Azerbaijani Turks and feel deep hatred towards us (especially nationalists), but they also deported Kurds (in the 90s they deported Kurds to Azerbaijan together with Azerbaijanis from Karabakh, and in the late 80s - from Armenia to Azerbaijan). As a child I wondered why they were not left in Karabakh or at least in Armenia. Only Yezidis could have stayed in Armenia. Now I think that maybe they did it because of religion and the integration of Azeris and Kurds with each other over the years.

Thanks for your input too people that are not knowledgeable about this topic of this too country