Some of the older more traditional horse 'breaking' techniques are the result of learned helplessness. It may look like a 'calm' horse but may also just be a shutdown horse, thank you for bringing these subjects to the present-day horse training, (not 'breaking') world.

Once again you bring out the wisdom of thoughtful, relationship training. Useful in all walks of life. Thanks

I love that you mention The Body Keeps Score, it's one of the books I came across when healing my own trauma. Everything that I've learned about my own mental health can be applied to horses and I've become a much kinder trainer for it. I hate that treating animals as feeling creatures is seen as "anthropomorphising", as if humans are some magical being that the creator endowed with emotions. We are animals, with the same nervous system and emotions as other mammals. But then most humans aren't very good at being kind to other humans so it's a long road ahead. I'm glad there are people like you out there spreading knowledge, for all the horses sakes'.

@janinawaz4596

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. It's not anthropomorphizing, it's recognizing that both humans and other animals have a lot of overlapping abilities, senses, responses, proclivities, urges, emotions, thoughts, and experiences. While our anatomy and physiology differs from other animals, they are variations on central themes. We're not space aliens in a strange biosphere transplanted from another.planet. We share an evolutionary tree.

@CnBlu

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed! When we talk about trauma in humans it's the limbic brain we're talking about. That part of the brain is similar in other mammals as it evolved earlier than when species like humans and horses came to be. The prefrontal cortex is the analyzing part of the human brain that completes complex tasks, it has evolved later specifically in humans and it doesn't have much to do with trauma. Therefore trauma is very similar in different mammals and doesn't have anything to do with anthropomorphising.

@klarakubler9763

11 ай бұрын

You are writing what i have been thinking for years. It is just ridiculous that humans think that they are so special when in fact every species is special in their own way. Humans just tend to be exeptionally arrogant.

@perriknize2118

7 ай бұрын

I'm reading that book right now. It's powerful.

Yes yes this makes so much sense. I can even feel it in me. The more I learn about horses the better I begin to understand myself.

I have been seeing a lot of parallels between horses that have been shut down, as myself. Working with horses has also caused me to be more empathic towards myself

Would never think of it that way. But it does teach them to not give up, to try again, which is actually a good thing, as we want them looking for answers when teaching them new things.

@epona9166

2 жыл бұрын

I agree that in a broad sense you want horses not to give up. But don't you want them to try different things when they're looking for answers? Continuing to struggle isn't trying new things, so is it really looking for an answer? Or is it essentially looking for an escape?

@300tdavis

Жыл бұрын

You want the horse to learn to use their thinking side instead of their reactive side what they are used to using such as flight, fight, or freeze, and you do that by building trust, adding the marbles to the jar so to speak, by taking the scary thing away when its scary. So once the trust is built up, and you think you can get a yes answer from your partner, try working through the scary thing, and see what happens....the horse got rewarded for it because he got the right answer and it felt good. The horse will be more willing to do it again. For example, I have farriers who want to know why they have horses that fight them and tell the owners to teach them to stand still. I see where they are coming from but, if they are not making the horse feel better when they put that foot back down on the ground....duh, that horse is not going to be willing to pick up his feet and be willing to just stand there still the next time. Makes sense.

Thank you for sharing this.

Humans and horses are BOTH mammals, yes! So many humans forget that we are, in fact, part of the animal kingdom

Horses ARE emotion...

Fantastic! What a sweet little horse Chance is! It makes you realise just how forgiving so many horses are, to absorb their trauma and work with what humans are demanding of them, even in harsh, even cruel training systems. Thank you for teaching us!

Thanks Warwick, I am learning about connection and understanding trauma in horsemanship. I have been trying out my new skills with some horses at work. I am seeing great changes in these horses. So much personalities are coming from them. They are thinking through things and are learning new skills faster. They are silly and playful and very expressive. I am not a talented trainer but a beginner horse person. All these changes are because the horses are making the choices due to feeling connected. When someone uses the old “do it my way”,I see the horses shut down and disassociate.. It is very sad because both horse and person are loosing out on a beautiful experience. Thanks for sharing and the reading ideas. Your experience and horse ways have greatly influenced me in my ways of partnering with horses. That has allowed me to have some amazing experiences in my horsemanship journey.

@dianesamp9102

2 жыл бұрын

I LOST MY SISTER TO ESOPHAGEAL CANCER IN JULY & NO WAY COULD GOING TO SIT IN A COUNSELORS OFFICE FOR AN HOUR BE OF ANY HELP TO ME. THEY COULDN'T TELL ME ANYTHING I DIDN'T ALREADY KNOW ABOUT GRIEF WITH ALL THE LOSS I EXPERIENCED. MY SISTER KNEW MY LOVE OF HORSES SINCE I WAS A CHILD & THE OPPORTUNITY CAME TO SPEND TIME WITH SOME. SINCE ABOUT SEPTEMBER THE RELATIONSHIP BOND WAS INSTANT AS WAS NO FEAR AND TRUST. THE THINGS THEY DO FOR ME JUST BY ASKING VERBALLY IS INCREDIBLE & I'M NOT A TRAINER EITHER JUST A HUMAN THAT WOULD WANT TO ALSO BE TREATED KINDLY & WITH RESPECT. ONE WILL STICK OUT HIS TOUNGE, ONE TALKS WITH HIS LIL NICKERS WHEN HE GREETS ME AT THE GATE. I GET SUCH GENTLE KISSES & NUZZLES THAT WARMS MY HEART IN NO WAY THAT ANY OTHER THERAPY WOULD. THERE ARE GOATS, SHEEP, DONKEYS, ALPACAS & A MINI BULL ALL OF WHICH ARE RECEPTIVE TO THE TIME I SPEND WITH THEM. EVERY DOG I'VE HAD HAS ALSO BEEN WELL BALANCED & BEHAVED, CALM WHERE THEY DON'T EVEN BARK OR PHASE AT THUNDERSTORMS. I THINK IT'S MY GIFT AS THEY ARE SUCH A BLESSING. HEART FULL 🐴

@ginacarney5189

2 жыл бұрын

I my heart felt empathy for the grief you are experiencing. I am so happy that you can find peace and connections with the animals. They are such blessings in our lives. They teach us how to treat and relate to each other as humans. Take care.

@dianesamp9102

2 жыл бұрын

@@ginacarney5189 THANK YOU THOSE HORSES ABSOLUTELY CONNECTED WITH ME AS I HAVE CONNECTED WITH THEM.IT'S A WAY OF HEALING THAT NEEDS NO WORDS YET CREATES A SAFE FEELING BOND SO INCREDIBLE. 🐴🙏❣️

@ginacarney5189

2 жыл бұрын

@@dianesamp9102 sending you my best in your adventure with connection and horses.🐴🙂

@dianesamp9102

2 жыл бұрын

@@ginacarney5189 I'M GUESSING BY SUMMER THEY WILL BE THINKING THEIR DOGS & TRY TO SIT ON MY LAP 🤣 BUT I WILL CONTINUE BEING GRATEFUL FOR EVERY MOMENT. 🐴❣️

Thanks for another video!

Thanks for the information. It's nice to see Chance again. I've been wondering how Rupert is coming along. I remember the video you did on not imprinting him and all of the horrified viewers. I would hazard a guess that his inquisitiveness and connection are blossoming.

Amazing to see you mention things like The Body Keeps the Score. I've done a lot of work on myself using the concepts of that book. Love that you're talking about the trauma that gets stored in the body.

Are you aware of a technique called Rolfing? This is a human massage technique which works on releasing muscles from their surrounding tissue. It is supposed to release traumas. I have heard from several friends who completed treatment and they each reported floods of memories rushing through their thoughts when certain areas are worked on. During a deep tissue massage, I experienced deep calm and happiness when my masseuse was working on my forearms. It wasn't until much later that I remembered that my beloved grandmother used to sit with me during an activity and massaged and stroked my lower arm. I adored this grandmother; she always made me feel safe and unconditionally loved. The crux of this story being that 25+ years later my body remembered. So, it makes complete sense that humans and horses have muscle memory of both trauma and love. I adore the path you are on now. It takes a highly intelligent person to be brave enough to grow and change. TFS P.S. Are you aware of Graeme Bull and the work he is doing?

@StableHorseTraining

2 жыл бұрын

Aww shucks, thanks Penny. Warwick and I have chatted briefly in the past but I don't think he knows much about me other than that time 😊

@pennywebb867

2 жыл бұрын

@@StableHorseTraining he will.

That was so interesting 🐴😊👍🏼

HE IS SOOO SWEET! NOTHING WRONG WITH A HORSE THAT'S SO CALM WITH AFFECTION & BEING STILL IN THE MOMENT. THAT'S AWESOME!!!

@patrickhawkins5566

2 жыл бұрын

Hey Diane

Great video! Exercising the freedom to change my mind and behavior as I grow is most humbling, fulfilling and liberating. Thank you for sharing! I started to be mindful of the school horse’s concerns at the riding school after watching your KZread videos and listening to your podcasts. What a world of difference in response I could get from the reluctant school horse!

Thank you so much for your free videos 🙏❤️🐴 you are making horselives better all over the world!

You make a great point. The Body keeps the score is an excellent and insight book.(also available to listen to on KZread). It is also important that those of us handling horses (especially those of us who have been through our own personal trauma), need to understand the steps to and engage in taking the time to be self aware and self regulated prior to commencing handling horses. If we are not coming to the horse in a calm and regulated state (exhibiting dis-regulation ourselves) we can hardly expect our horses (a prey/flight animal) to remain in a calm state as we attempt to work with them.

What a wonderful ♥ in his forehead 🐴

Thank you for those book titles, Warwick. I will check them out. Regards...

Love the real world application of the ideas in those books. It is so wonderful to be able to relate those principles into our real world experience. Thank you for all you share!

I have done something similar especially with newborn foals in their first 3 days of life. I cradle them for a few minutes with my arms around chest and rump. They are allowed to struggle and are held until they relax, then allowed to go. I’ve always felt this was a critical training and handling of the young foal at a time when they do not have the size and strength to get away. Of course, while cradling, the foals are also petted gently and talked to so they get used to human touch. If one waits a couple weeks to work with a foal, they can be like a strong, wild deer. Now I have to look for the books Warwick suggested reading. My reading list has taken a different turn since watching these videos. Warwick is a well-rounded person by his own design. I admire that so much.

I totally agree. Raised my kids that way and they turned out well, but there are things that we can’t control that happen. So how do we release trauma in horses? Just allowing them to relax in our presence?

Warwick, I recently took the animal kinesiology course. We have 6 donkeys and the eldest are in their 20's. I've known the eldest 3 for 21 years - there have been may events and changes during that time. I began with the leader, and at the end for the next séance it was for the herd, and since then I am working with each donkey for the herd and equilibrating the stresses I find and collecting themes that later when I work individually with each one may come up again - or not. Soe of te stresses are inherited, or still resonant from may generations before

I really wanted to say thank you for all of your knowledge and video's. I am currently working with a rescue mustang that has trauma. Not sure what happened (3rd or 4th owner now) but literally everything you post is adding to her recovery. She almost a different horse now. Thank you. Because truly, everything you talk about is kind and sensible for training.

Great thought. We all hold onto childhood traumas so this makes sense to me. It would be interesting to try this theology personally with a foal. What is presented in these pod casts resonates with me

Yes! We do need to be careful about what experiences we give our horses. And thank you for role modelling a closer to natural weaning age too

Also my dad had PTSD from world war II and he would be standing in the living room just sweating and shaking and just looking for an answer. I was 16 years old and the only thing I can think of or could think of was just told him and tell him it was going to be okay. And it seemed to have a good effect but not necessarily resolved. Any replies would be appreciated.

@randomvielleuse527

2 жыл бұрын

My very favorite thing to use for myself is Emotional Freeing Technique, aka "tapping." EMDR is also really good, as is Tapas Acupressure Technique. With something as complex as heavy trauma from abuse or war I would highly recommend a very experienced therapist because even though these techniques can be very gentle it's easy for a person to get re-traumatized- and no one needs that! But, all three of these deceptively easy techniques have helped me tremendously, EFT especially. EFT and TAT are free to learn off the net but EMDR is usually done with a therapist. I do it myself now but I'm weird that way. :)

@petercastles5978

2 жыл бұрын

Your poor dad, and all your family. My father was in WW2 as well, and though he didn't exhibit those symptoms, he certainly carried the stress of war, and so did we, his family. I tell people our family fought the war every day of our young lives. My mother had nearly fifty years of living with dad. At least we kids got out. I am just taking the first tentative steps to seek help, and I am not far off seventy. Crazy stuff, but there it goes. Regards....

Another great video! Thank you so much, Warwick!

Always excellent

So interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you! 👍🏼💛 Just from seeing and hearing you in this first visit, as recommended from a commenter in another, but very great horse trainer video, I am impressed and subscribing. So far my favorite people to learn from regarding horses and their owners have been Klaus Hempfling and Steve Young, both of whom further the awesomeness of pioneers Monty Roberts and Buck Branneman.

Best video ever 👌

@aza9195

2 жыл бұрын

Can give testimony got so many trauma to unwind. Thank you.

I often had these moments when I thought to myself - I did this by accident and it seems to help my horse but what if I teach the wrong thing…the thoughts about conditioning in training are always making me doubt my gutfeeling…

I am flashed by the sequence of matching steps, this Must be the visualization of attunement'

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with this information. It's interesting but most of us don't foal our own horses. How do you address a horse with trauma that you may or may not know about?

@WarwickSchiller

2 жыл бұрын

All if the connection work, does that

@blainedecker1

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I'm a big fan. You are by far the best trainer I've seen posting on the internet and I've learned deeper insights from you then anybody. When this subject comes up with other horsepeople I meet, invariably the people who are familiar with you, enthusiastically agree. Don't let it go to your head but based on my unscientific sampling, you've achieved cult status with more horsepeople than you'll ever know. Thank you again!

How about showing us how you are going to start that horse. I would think it would be easy, but for some reason I think it would be interesting.

This is a great video and makes a good point, but I do wish you'd gone a little deeper into what you mean by stored trauma. What I'm reading it as (and I may be wrong) is that by holding onto that foal until it stopped struggling, you'd be starting to teach it learned helplessness from a very young age, but by letting it go, you're teaching it that it can get away if it wants and it would probably therefore feel safer being touched in the future, since it has more of a sense of agency. I had a similar thing a few years back with a pet rat that didn't like being handled. She'd squeak and struggle and try and get away if I picked her up. So the way I addressed it was by regularly picking her up and holding her in an open hand just above the ground where she could easily hop off if she wanted, while giving her her favorite snack. She learned that hands were a place that could easily be escaped if she felt threatened, but that if she stayed she might get a treat and she became a lot less squirmy. She never loved being handled, but she tolerated it a lot better once she knew she could get away if she felt it was unsafe.

@WarwickSchiller

2 жыл бұрын

If you read those 2 books you will understand

Wonderful! But how do you undo trauma once it's there?

@WarwickSchiller

4 ай бұрын

Thats what all the attunement work does.

What I meant to say was I held him when he was very stiff. So as he calm down a little bit he just naturally let go and start to deal with it somewhat on his own.

@pttroe8142

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, I had to go back and watch it again! :) My thoughts are that he didn't release when Chance was in freeze mode, ( to not "reward" the freeze ) but then released when he had a change in focus, (start moving again) to show that he saw that change.

So what to do when the horse comes into your stable, already with trauma? How do you react not knowing where the trauma comes from?

@bethanndavis115

2 жыл бұрын

Good question?!? I need to know that answer as well.

@ginacarney5189

2 жыл бұрын

I believe Connection is the answer. No matter the trauma. The sense of having support, empowered to make choices and have those choices respected will help.

@Kathiemin

2 жыл бұрын

@@ginacarney5189 in theory I think you are right. But in real life I believe its much more complex. What you are saying can translate to a substance abuser, where a good connection and support will make them stop drinking or taking drugs. Yes, that works on some, but others still fall through?! Depending on the trauma, personality and more, I believe the reaction o what you are suggesting is very different form case to case

@ginacarney5189

2 жыл бұрын

@@Kathiemin I agree that a person who has looked to substance abuse most likely needs medical help to overcome their physical dependency. It is my opinion that they are going to be more successful with their recovery if they have connection with supportive, non controlling or dominating support people. I also believe having a connection with community, family, and friends creates resilient people who are more able to deal with bad situations. Trauma is not due to the event, as bad things happen to every person. Trauma is due to the feeling of being alone, controlled or out of control and dominated during the event. In terms of horses, I have seen horses who are disassociated or shut down turn to playful and full of personality just because they are able to connect in healthy relationships. These horses would do anything to please and protect the people they connected with. Just look at any one who does good liberty work. I have seen spooky horses who have learned to connect become confident and solid simply because they have connection with their people and herd. Of course there are no one answer fits all. But I still believe connection is the best place to start and is a good principle for learning to work through trauma for horse and human. I whole heartily believe this because I work in a field where I see this happen with both in real life situations. I do, however, respect that you experience it differently.

I don’t understand why you held on to the foal until he struggled again. I’m assuming you let him go while he was struggling?Was that so he completed an escape that would complete an urge? I hope you put out another video to explain this better. How do you think it could be applied to adult horses?

@kearl45

2 жыл бұрын

From what I understand, letting the foal go when it's struggling prevents 'learned helplessness' that other things (patience poles and other training methods) can instill in a horse which can in a way change that horse's personality/confidence/willingness to try and be okay with making mistakes long term. Hopefully that makes sense 🙂

@StableHorseTraining

2 жыл бұрын

he was fixing the mistake he was forced to make by holding on to the horse. Allowing it one more time to struggle can reaffirm the desire to escape, get the desired result and "let go" of the previous helpless feeling. That's the theory behind what he's communicating here :)

I would like to see this done on more then one foal. Maybe just his personality is just easy.

@WarwickSchiller

2 жыл бұрын

But I said Ive done it with the last 2, and both are easy

I think foals can overcome bad starts. I've had foals that were handled a lot, and foals that weren't touched at all until they were 8 months old, and both types learned at about the same rate. I do believe in a genetic proponent, from mares who are nervy and reactive, mares who are more chill, mares who are dominant... often the foal is similar to the mares. Some horses will always naturally be more laidback while some will always be more reactive or "difficult", and these traits will persist but you just manage them. All types of horses respond to good training, and if you or someone previous to you makes a mistake with the horse it can be overcome

@kristinastoltzfus6032

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with you! Needs to be done with more then one as some of mine it seems it would teach them to fight harder to get loose when tied etc.

Well I must have missed something cuz I don't understand when the horse started to struggle again and did he let him go or did he try to calm the horse.

@StableHorseTraining

2 жыл бұрын

the idea is that he let the horse go. Essentially fixing the "mistake" he was forced to make for the medical procedure. By holding on and waiting for the next response, he allowed the horse to try again, get release and come out of the trauma "successful". It's a good theory for sure.

What is your take on a buddy sour horse who can't be alone in the stable? The horse refuses to enter the stable building altogether if no other horse is already inside, if the horse is left alone in the stall it will run in circles in the stall and becomes dangerous to handle as it will run you over if you try to lead it out of the stall at that stage. A groom was hurt pretty bad when he went to open the stall door to attach the lead rope and the horse pushed through the door the moment the lock was turned. As soon as you start walking the horse in the direction away from its buddies it will freeze to the ground and refuse to move, if you try to move it with the flag or the rope the horse will turn its butt and try to kick you or bite you.

How do we help our horse release the trauma that has been stored?

@rockjockchick

2 жыл бұрын

As a massage therapist I can tell you trauma can come out just by massaging. I’ve had people crying, shaking, guaffing… it’s pretty amazing. You have to create a safe space for them to process it as it comes up -some realize they need therapy because it goes really deep. But maybe you could do some sort of body work on your horses. I imagine it could have similar effects. Of course be safe.

My horse was sent away to be broke to ride and he seemed to be the kind of horse that goes into himself a lot. I lose him consciously when working liberty. If he had been tramatised while being trained can he come back from that?

The proof is in the horse.

Nice video about trauma. However, please do not ride a horse of 3 years old. If you do the research, you will see that the skeleton is not developed enough to be stressed until a horse is 5 years old or more. The starting of horse at a young age leads to many physical problems later in life such as sway back, arthritis, and other bone and joint problems.

@infamousElle

10 күн бұрын

@lindawaybright2480 Let the man do his work. He knows more than you do. Sitting on a 3 yr old will not hurt them.