You must be going off of what a rep told you. My husqvarna dealer said the same thing. “Everything has to be line of sight.” If you bothered to read the manuals and/or do a little bit of research on how real time kinematic (RTK) technology actually works you would realize that what you explained in the video is wrong. The EPOS automower (rover) needs gps signals from a minimum of 4 satellites to know where it’s located (for the most part). Due to things in the air like clouds, pollen, rain, etc these signals arrive at the gps receiver with timing errors, hence the reason why your phone gps can be off by as much as a couple of meters. The EPOS system uses RTK to correct for these errors. It’s hard to calculate timing errors for the rover because its constantly in motion. That is why RTK uses a stationary reference station (base station) with a known location, to collect the same gps signals, calculate the error, and send the error corrections to the rover using radio frequency (RF). This correction gives the automower 2-3 centimeter precision. In the reference station manual it states that the RF signal has a range of up to 500m which is more than 5 football fields. With that said unless your house is built out of lead the RF signal should be able to make it through a typical house. In fact my reference station is mounted on one side of my house and my EPOS automower has no problems mowing on the opposite side of the house (no line of sight). My 550H also mows up to the tree line without any gps signal issues. I even took it one step further and setup my 550H to mow my neighbor’s lawn and mows it just fine (RF signal through two houses). This system is more forgiving than the dealers make it out to be. I get birds perched on top of the reference station (blocking the line of sight of the gps) and it dosen’t mess up the EPOS system. The 550H even managed to mow under my neighbor’s camper (without line of sight to the satellites). If you are interested in getting an EPOS automower I would recommend first downloading the GNSS View app (it’s free) and see if: 1. You have enough satellites over your property (during a 24 hr period). This app will show you all of the gps satellites that the EPOS system accepts. Note: Don’t forget to set your location in the settings otherwise the app won’t show you the correct satellites over your location. 2. The satellites are far enough apart for proper triangulation (HDOP and VDOP should be 2 or less). 3. The reference station and automower can see the satellites (the reference station needs 160 degrees of open sky (set the mask angle to 10 degrees in the app settings) and the automower needs minimum 110 degrees of open sky (steep hills could affect the amount of open sky the mower can see)). 4. There are any obstacles that could potentially block the satellite signal to the reference station and automower (use the augmented reality (AR) feature in the app to see the satellites in the sky using your smart phone camera). As for the charging station location, the charging station also does not need to be line of sight to the reference station. According to the installation manual, you will need to pick a spot for the charging station where the automower can acquire gps when it backs away up to 3m from the charging station (aka the docking point). My charging station is located below my deck and my 550H has no problem finding its way back. EPOS will probably work well in newer developments, where most of the vegetation has been leveled/cleared. FYI: If you have a 550H EPOS and you want to keep the wildlife off your property turn the amber headlights to strobe. EPOS is not for every property, but for those who’s property meet these criteria the EPOS automower is worth it.

@sircoynie

Жыл бұрын

Amazing how a comment is more informative than the video it is commenting on. Thank you!

@Firewired1

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this reply. So much conflicting info about these. Thanks for the app recommendation

@skyta4728

Жыл бұрын

Excellent info , thanks!

@wmflyboy

Жыл бұрын

You must be an airline pilot too! 😂. Excellent comment. 100% spot on. Geo-polar, Geo-equatorial, RAIM, etc.., so much info.

@MarioSesana

11 ай бұрын

So does this mean that an EPOS mower should work anywhere in the world if your conditions are met? For example, I’m in South America, I used your app and I’m getting over 30 satellites over 24 hour period at all times.

Good job Dwight!! Love my automower!! Just about time to put Moe Mow to bed for the winter. He ran great for the last 2 years. Thanks for all your videos.

This person thinks there is only 1 satellite in orbit

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

No, not quite! But this is a basic version of what happens in the real world with these mowers. If the mower and the reference station do not have signal from the same satellite then the system does not work. And the further north you go away from the equator the more connectivity issues occur. That is why they are still testing them to see if they will work in Canada.

@jennamoonchild

Ай бұрын

Exactly what I think when watching this. Just pick your phone and see how many satellites it is seeing. Usually 10 to 30. So there is no problem as you see with new Husqvarna epos RESIDENTIAL mowers.

This video is a few years old. Has any updates to the Husqvarna epos solved these signal issues? How about using multiple reference stations?

@RoboticMowerServices

2 ай бұрын

Multiple reference stations can help. You would need a primary reference station and then have a dealer convert any additional reference stations to repeat the signal of the first reference station. It's a solution, but currently at $900 a reference station, it's not a cheap solution

What is the process to update the firmware on the GPS reference station?

I believe Husqvarna will be launching an EPOS unit specifically for residential adoption which will be accurate to 2cm. No line of sight required to reference station per Husqvarna. Launch date 2023.

Surely commercial installs will have trees and outbuildings too. How does it cope with those situations? Or is it just for playing fields or golf courses? Do you know where I can find the installation guidance for the 550 epos

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

These mowers were greatly improved by a software update about a month ago. Here's an example: kzread.info/dash/bejne/lqVqspiso7eTcbg.html

Based on the feed back here, sounds like it is absolutely key to follow the guidance that the reference station has the full view of the sky. If the reference station can see all the sat's, then the limiting factor is the rover, aka the mower. Which then leads to the need for line of sight or near line of sight between the between and GPS to transmit that correction data. The real question in mind is the RF profile of the data stream to the mowers.

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU!!!

@khs2424

2 жыл бұрын

That does not mean it needs line of sight to transmit the correction data to the mower. I work with high precision GPS equipment everyday. Our reference stations and rover units can be hundreds of feet away from each other and line of sight is never an issue. I'm no expert on these mowers but, I would assume the reference station is sending its corrections over an RF signal. RF transmissions do not need line of sight to be successfully sent. Also, in order to get 3cm accuracy, you would only need to get a signal from 4-5 satellites. If it's using GPS (31), GLONASS (24), BeiDou (35) and Galileo (30), as their website says, you're talking about around 120 satellites in the skies at one time. At most times, 30-40 of them are within view. The odds of the rover and the the reference station being able to see 4-5 them is pretty much 100%.

@Dennis47403

2 жыл бұрын

@@khs2424 I installed my EPOS system with 2 mowers this past weekend on my 3.5 acre property. I put the reference gps at gutter height on the back of the house. This was a compromise of easy to get to and height. We get perfect reception on the back of the house. We get good reception in the front yard. The only issue we have is the steep slope next to the road for a drainage swale. The combination of steep slope and pass through the house results in a dead or "shadow" on the swale. Past the swale (in the road), the reception is strong again. For now, I stop the mowers from going into the swale. The fix would be adding a base station to the front of the house. I will take these limitations over buried wires every day of the week, tbh. There is a lot of flexability the EPOS system with virtual boundaries provides. If we moved the base station to the apex of the roof, they might give us strong reception next to the road.

@khs2424

2 жыл бұрын

​@@Dennis47403 That sounds about right. RF signals passing through trees and such is no big deal at all. Passing through houses will certainly lower the strength of the signal, but it should still make it through. Earth, hills, and the like will also effect them. Sounds like your RF signal is being weakened as it passes through the home, then finally killed once it reaches the swale. I'm not sure how strong the RF is for the unit but, it's certainly strong enough to pass through trees and one typical house. Think about your standard Wi-Fi signal. It's basically another kind of RF signal. Depending on how strong the output signal is, you can normally still pick up your home Wi-Fi from outside of your house.

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

I have 2 different Samsung cell phones. Both through the same carrier and both less than a year old. One gets great signal everywhere. The other loses it in a lot of places. My point is that just like with these 2 cell phones using the same towers, carrier, etc. they do not work the same. And it doesn't matter how good a signal is or what one type of equipment that uses a GPS signal or cell phone signal or radio signal can do because the other piece of equipment using the signal does not have the same components or technology inside it to make it capable of working exactly like every other piece of equipment that uses these signals. Every brand and model of 4K flat screen tv does not have the same picture quality, but they're all 4K flat screens. Every Chevy car that came with a 350 didn't have the same horse power, but they all have the same displacement. The EPOS mower is still in the early stages. Yes, it is gradually getting better with every software update and every tweak after an issue a rises, but just because it uses GPS satellite signal and a reference station doesn't mean that it is going to work as well as everything else out there that uses GPS satellite signal and a reference station........at least not yet.

When you have deployed EPOS with the antenna on the roof, how close could the mower get to a building before losing signal?

@jmnero4447

Жыл бұрын

From what I understand it uses radio frequencies to communicate with the mower. So it should go through the roof/wall no problem. Just don't expect it to go through a hill if the mower goes out of line of sight.

How sensitive is need for line of sight from the reference point to the automower? From the docs, it seems to say that that communication is via 900 mhz, and remembering the days of 900 mhz cordless phones the range through walls seemed to be decent. I was just curious from a real world perspective. I also saw that a single reference point can support multiple mowers. Are EPOS mowers limited to a single reference point or can there be multiple reference points to cover the property.

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

A reference point can work with several mowers. But the mowers can only work with one reference station. This is where the issues arise because the mower has to have continuous line of site from both the GPS satellite and the reference station it is paired to. It's not like a cell hone where as soon as it's out of range of the tower it's connected to it latches on to another one.

@drtran9

2 жыл бұрын

The gps corrections are sent from the reference station to the automower via radio frequency (RF) and therefore does not need line of sight. The RF range for the reference station is 500m or more than 5 football fields.

??? According to Husqvarna's own docs it uses the GNSS positioning ecosystem which is made up of four different positioning systems, GPS, GLONASS, BeiDou and Galileo. that's a lot of satellites buzzing around, and it only needs signal from a few. The reference station has to see the sky, so put it on a gable end on a mount not under an overhang. or low in the yard. The RF signal from the reference station does refract around corners like all RF/EM does. It also penetrates objects to some degree - e.g., you can use your wifi outside from an AP inside. The docs give specific setbacks from areas that would present problems, like a u-shaped house. If you have a lot of trees or live in a zero lot line neighborhood, you will probably have problems - but making a blanket statement you can't use it in residential areas isn't correct.

There are around 29 GPS satellites orbiting the earth so this explaination does not hold up.

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

Having 29 GOS satellites in orbit is only 1/3 of the equation. If the mower and reference station do not have signal from the same satellite AND the mower does not have signal from the reference station the mower stops. And that clear signal the mower needs from the reference station can not be blocked by trees, buildings, etc. The mower will not accept signal from more than one reference station and will not switch from reference station to reference station. So if it were ONLY a matter of having signal from a GPS satellite then sure, it wouldn't hold up. But being a triangulated signal, it has to have all 3 legs of the signal working without interference.

@khs2424

2 жыл бұрын

the US GPS system has 31 satellites orbiting earth. Husqvarna says the EPOS system uses GPS (31 satellites), GLONASS (24), BeiDou (35) and Galileo (30). That's well over 100 satellites currently in orbit. The odds of the mower being able to see 4 of the 100+ satellites (Husqvarna says that's what it needs to get 3cm accuracy) is basically 100%.

@arvydasbudvytis1080

Жыл бұрын

​@Collin Lutz 7

what about the new 2023 Automower 450x EPOS for residential use?

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

There have been improvements made to the EPOS system this year. We'll have more info on it as we get time

@christophermckinney9388

Жыл бұрын

@@RoboticMowerServices Thank you. I was going to wait a year to give them time to address any bugs that may pop up.

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

It's definitely not a bad idea. We see a lot of people showing and talking about the positives, but there are more things than just what we talk about in this video that can cause an EPOS mower not to work. We will be going over more of these items in a future video.

One would think that just like we use multiple access points in large homes and office buildings to keep a strong signal everywhere, Husqvarna would modify their system to have multiple access points for the reference stations so the user could cover all sides of their building. . Between that and the 30+ SATs that can be viewed at anytime in pretty much any location, these things should have the potential for completely flawless operation!

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

There are plenty of apps out there now that let you see how many satellites are in your area. There are times here in our area where there are 20 or less.

I see Husqvarna now is selling the residential unit in the US. have you had the chance to try one. Would be extremely interested. right now, I run 2 450x mowers and my largest problem is boundary wire breaks. A wireless system would be ideal.

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

The residential version is basically the same as the commercial version. They have launched that model in a high cut and low cut. But give it a month or 2 and I think there will be some improvements coming that will solve the issues mentioned in this video.

@tten2787

Жыл бұрын

@@RoboticMowerServices Are you saying we should wait a few months to buy the residential EPOS, or that we’ll find out what changes they made to the residential version of EPOS in a few months after videos start coming out about it? I was thinking I should order now, because it may take awhile to arrive and I want to start the mowing season with an auto mower right away

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

Send us an email with your info and we talk about EPOS and what you will need to make it work for your mowing area

There are way more than just one satellite up there orbiting so if you are unable to connect to the one satellite, it will connect to a different one that is in its line of sight. You only need a minimum of three satellites to triangulate position. From what I understand the reference station is only beaming back satellite information to the mower and should be able to go through walls and other things just like any other wireless signal. From what I’ve heard, the new residential version has solved all these problems and my auto mower dealer even said his will work across the street at his neighbors house using the reference station on his house. I am looking into getting one of these because I am fed up with wires being cut and trying to have to find where the brakes are, splice it back together

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

It's not the new residential version that solved these issues, it was a new software version that was made available for all EPOS Automowers. Including the 550 & 550H versions already in use. And YES, NOW they are able to work much better around buildings. There are still limitations and certain criteria that has to be met in order for an EPOS Automower to work properly in a lawn, but it is now MUCH better. Here is a video of a work area that we have set up where the mower goes around the back of the building and the mower has no issues keeping signal in places where it would've dropped a year ago. kzread.info/dash/bejne/lqVqspiso7eTcbg.html

@TiltedTripodMedia

Жыл бұрын

@@RoboticMowerServices yes it is software. I’m right now working out all the kinks of the new one I got yesterday learning how to divide up my yard where to place the transport path etc.

maybe TWO referencepoints?

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

The mowers will only work with ONE reference point. When they advance to being able to do that then it will solve nearly all of these issues we mentioned in this video.

Appreciate the video. People need to give you a break on the GPS satellites. He's not going to hang 29 GPS satellites for this demo people...come on... What it really seems like is in a couple of years once these mowers are updated to receive additional inputs from multiple reference points and a handoff is capable (think current cell phone technology and the handoff from one tower to the next) then these will be able to be utilized in residential settings, yes?

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

That is exactly what we keep trying to explain to people. They can go on and on and on about GPS technology all day long, but at the end of the day all of that GPS technology will ALWAYS only be as good as the equipment using it.

Would EPOS work anywhere in the world? Or is this a USA only machine? I’m in South America, I see over 30 satellites over my location. Thanks!

Have you really tried this in real life? Radio signals from satellites works almost indoors at some times. The reference signal has been used i many years in other areas with no problem. This seems more like a theory based upon the HVA manual stating it "might" not work behind buildings. They are of course not promising anything because they dont want unhappy customers. But it will most likely work. I would rather like you to make a real life test. This just prevent people to try it.

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

We are an Automower dealer, so where would we gain anything by preventing people from trying it? There's not many people that would be happy with a $7K+ investment that only works part of the time and we are providing information for anyone to consider and to look into before trying to purchase an EPOS mower just because they think it will be more reliable than a wired system. With this system what works in one part of the world of country could very well not work at all in others. We are just making people aware of why it might not work in their area.

@magloman

2 жыл бұрын

@@RoboticMowerServices If you are a dealer, why not set it up and make a real life test? It would be more appreciated than telling a theory I would guess.

Oh my.....yeah I would 10/10 recommend getting a general understanding of the hardware in question before doing one of these reviews lol. The amount of misinformation was actually staggering.

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

There is no misinformation. There is a bog difference between GPS capability in these Automowers right now here in North America and other devices that use GPS. We are talking specifically about the current EPOS Automowers.

@orbitalprime3329

Жыл бұрын

@@RoboticMowerServices There is massive misinformation. I didn't say it because I didn't know. I actually own the unit in question. I have this exact unit handling over 2 acres and that is with ditches and all kinds of things. Reference station is mounted on my roof. Myself and 3 other friends made the jump over the summer so I am speaking on the experience of 4 individuals. The software when these first came out was a touch wonky but it is awesome now. The problem with Husq was their 4g boards that they used when everything switched to 5G. If you made that argument then you would have a leg to stand on but everything you mentioned is a non issue. Every new unit has an updated board so the previous issue now doesn't exist. These are also getting better month after month with software updates. Next year they will be able to stripe believe it or not. Actually buy the unit and set it up this next season and do a legit review. This was regurgitated misinformation. Husq was playing it really close to the chest when these released but that was due to software development. That is worked out now and these units are the way without question. They can handle WAY more then 1.25 acres. Again this is from actual experience and not just speculation.

@Scott-dn1bk

Жыл бұрын

SO where's your review? Id love to see it stripe. I am really considering the Husq but they for some reason insist on using their clunky old chassis with a tiny set of front wheels. There are cheaper chinese versions coming out 'soon' and that would completely dismount Husq from the industry if those play out with any level of success at less than half the price of the Husq. I would PREFER to get the Husq though, but man if they would do the EPOS in the AWD version, and lawn stripe - no brainer for me having the backing of an internationally recognized brand with dealers a stones throw away.

So OK, that's all what i taught too, but, what about other brands, they work almost perfect, besides some software updated issues... Look for mammotion luba, segway automower.... They do it, under trees, up to more than than an acre....and by the way, they cost half the overpriced husq.

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

Those others that you mentioned are robotic mowers, but they are not Automowers. Everybody wants to comment about how GPS works with cell phones and other devices but this video is specifically about Automowers and the issues that we have had with them.

How do autocars work than? They do not receive signals all the time when I follow this story.

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

Different technology in the cars than in the mowers. Yes, they are using GPS, but the machines using the GPS are different.

So you have demonstrated you don’t understand GPS. Perhaps an actual demo would be a good idea.

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

Understanding GPS and understanding the equipment that uses GPS are 2 completely different things.

@RoboticMowerServices

2 жыл бұрын

If it were ONLY a matter of having signal from a GPS satellite then sure, it wouldn't hold up. But being a triangulated signal, it has to have all 3 legs of the signal working without interference. If it does not have that the mower will stop. So even if someone wrote the book on GPS, that is only 1/3 of the equation and would not include the limitations of the other 2 components in the system.

@JezzaG1969

2 жыл бұрын

Yawn. Do you understand RTK?

He literally thinks the satellites stay stationary. 😅😂😂😂 um no they rotate around the world. Also its based on a multi sat syst3m meaning it connects t9 more then one satellite for postion like GPS. With your think a GPS in a car or phone should never work because it's blocked by building. You sir are CAP NOT FACTS. CONGRATS ON THAT🎉🎉

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

Is this a car? Is this a phone? NO! It's an Automower! But please tell us how many different properties that you have tested an EPOS Automower on and in how many different states since we "are CAP NOT FACTS" as you claim.

@scott.baierscott2198

Жыл бұрын

@RoboticMowerServices we use it at almost every casino and I live in upper NY state. So you claiming it won't work in Canada or north of PA is a joke as well. We get it you don't like them. But it doesn't mean it doesn't work when it does. I don't even have phone service or internet service where we use it. So .. but hey you're in PA you know everything. 🤣 🤣 🤣

@RoboticMowerServices

Жыл бұрын

You use EPOS Automowers everyday? Because this is about EPOS Automowers. You are basically saying a Chevette runs as good as a Corvette because they both have engines. And your comment about me not liking them is great considering I'm a dealer and have actually sold and installed quite a few of these EPOS Automowers in MULTIPLE states. How much hands on experience do you have with EPOS Automowers? And if what I am saying we have experienced and other dealers aren't saying the same thing, then why would Husqvarna make a signal repeater to help solve these issues that you claim do not exist? We also noticed that you didn't reply to our response where you mentioned the video of one of these working through the walls of a church and we pointed out to you that we are the ones that installed that mower and its OUR video!

@scott.baierscott2198

11 ай бұрын

@RoboticMowerServices yrs auto mowers daily in upper New York you act like Husqvarna has thier own satellite system. They're not star link they're not on Globalstar or irduim go satellite. They're based on the same satalote as all other GPS which is owned by the us goverment. I have used satellite phones for over 20 years now both in the miliatry and civilians settings all over the globe. The fact you try to say there's no coverage north of PA is laughable. Even if you were based on another satellite system they all work north of PA. Ukraine sits higher and we all know starlink satellite are used there. We fet it. You selling only a 5k lawn mower doesn't make you as much commission as a 10k ztr.. but your so called knowledge of satellite and satellite coverage is basic at best. But here's a couple cents for a comment since you seem to be hurting for money.

My God... So much misleading information in this video. You want to take it off if you want to keep your credibility?