For more direct drive opinions that don't really matter check out @randomcallsign IG and T

Simple answer: my wallet says no. 😂

TL;DW: RCs production value is still top notch. Also diminishing returns is the name of my autobiography.

can't really argue on the immersion factor tho..that is what I am looking for, don't really care about the performance.

@crkvend

3 жыл бұрын

This! As someone wanting to get some gear and get started with a wheel (and initially, mostly arcadey games), all I can ever find is “will it make you faster”. I don’t care about what’s faster, I just want to know what’s more FUN :)

I went from G29 on a wheelstand pro, to CSL elite with load cell brake kit on GT omega stand and finally to the DD2 on a K2 cockpit. The DD2 plus VR equals the ultimate in immersion, which is what I’m looking for and I would recommend to any sim racing enthusiast to get a DD wheel. My lap times are quicker and more consistent with the DD2 and every time downforce or going over a kerb is conveyed by the wheel, it brings so much joy. The smoothness, detail and power that comes from the DD2 is worth every penny over the elite! This video is as ridiculous as saying that a Ferrari is a rip off in price and value compared to a Ford Fiesta!

@SilverPanos

3 жыл бұрын

Totally agree with you, if you have the budget for it, it's totally worth it

So to sum this up, If your a "gamer" who likes to sim race then it's not worth it. If your a serious sim racer who is looking to get the most realistic experience possible and takes it very serious then yes it is worth it.

Great video man! You are a great inspiration to my sim racing start, T300 and a few reviewed games that you said are good. Keep up the great work man 🏎🏆👍👏

Short answer: no Long answer: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

@SagnolTheGangster

3 жыл бұрын

True answer: Yes Immersion is the important thing

@Donesyboy

3 жыл бұрын

Definitely coerced a chuckle 😂

I had a CSL Elite and upgraded to a DD1 when it came out. I totally agree with your point.

It's kinda funny, the CSL Elite is the only wheel I've had buyers remorse over. G27 was amazing, T300 was quite the upgrade from that, CSL I should've just saved my money for the DD1 I eventually got. My personal favorite thing about the DD1 is how quiet it is, speed and torque are bonuses.

@MikoOhneHose

3 жыл бұрын

Is the DD1 way more quiet than the ClubSport 2.5?

@randomcallsign

3 жыл бұрын

Yes

If you can DIY, you can easily build your own DD wheel for a lot less than a pre-built solution (besides that's how DD became a staple in sim racing anyway). A company called Granite sells components used by SimuCube in their last gen wheelbases (just don't buy a motor from them). Aliexpress sells MIGE motors which are the industry standard. Just ignore the cult of high torque motors and get the more reasonable 13nM one. If you DIY the rim and the pedals, you can get an amazing value rig. Otherwise, go for belt-drive.

For a decent plug and play solution, the T300 or TX belt drive wheels can’t be beaten for price / performance, it’s the sweet spot. You have to also take into account how good the drivers are and how the game developers have programmed FFB. Some wheels feel crap on some games but very good on others, is that the wheel or the interaction between drivers and software? It’s more complicated than just saying wheel x is better than wheel y. I speak as a pc user and I have tried a Fanatec CSW 2.5 owned by my brother, I ran a Logitech G27 for over 12 years with mixed results depending on the games. I now have a Thrustmaster TX (T300) and can honestly say it gives you about 75% of a CSW (I found CSW too strong for my liking), for me that’s good value for money and it’s more than good enough to relay the feedback required. You can pick one up on eBay for around £200 these days, a bargain!... Spend the rest on either CSL Elite or Clubsport load cell pedals. I do feel Logitech wheels are now surpassed in just about every way by the TX / T300 in terms of performance to price.

@naj114

3 жыл бұрын

Similarly upgraded from there original Logitech G25 to Thrustmaster TX with 599xx Evo wheel and T3PA Pro pedals. For me it is the sweet spot on terms of price Vs performance. Looking to buy the open wheel add-on next.

@levs.7325

2 жыл бұрын

T300rs is awesome. It feels 10 times better than my old g25, plus it was easy to change wheel for the aftermarket one. I'm going to buy new pedals soon, because original t300rs are too "weak"

@NavD1

2 жыл бұрын

​I paired my t300rs with the clubsport v3 pedals. Good pedals make a huge difference!

I think it is subjective. Will a DD wheel make you faster? No. But, if budget allows, and you are looking for more immersion, then it is. For me, it was well worth it, because it gives me more joy. I DID NOT buy one thinking it will make me faster. But, I do really love how it feels.

@Duuk_the_Dog

3 жыл бұрын

did it make you catch slides better?

@vatch07075

3 жыл бұрын

@@Duuk_the_Dog Not sure.... it gives better feeling of what's happening with the car. the rest is skill based, in my opinion

@leclercmotorsports

3 жыл бұрын

@@vatch07075 So if it give you better feeling of the car, doesn't that mean you can tune the car to the limit? That will make you faster.

I just got a TS-PC and its awesome in comparison to the G29. So much better and it made me faster/more consistent just because i can feel so much more and its easier to make big saves when the car is about to spin. Still wanna try a DD one day. I like when i can really feel the force in the wheel. But if its worth it? Idk. But im looking for the best immersion, so, maybe one day...

Thank you very much for your honest opinion, i have the last two years upgraded my rig, and I have now A Thrustmaster TGT, which I am generally happy with, but I am contemplating a Fanatec DD1, but the price difference as the market stands now with COVID & all is pretty huge. But I will definitely go DD with my next wheel, regardless of when ;)

@allthegoodonesweregone

3 жыл бұрын

Fanatec have a 20 percent sale every Black Friday along with a lot of sim racing sites that sell racing gear. Look around during that time period this year.

And how about the hours needed (or is it?) to fine tweak the ffb on the DD wheel? What I love about my TS-PC is that it didn't throw me in to the deep hole of making setup "the best"...

@liyushuai4456

3 жыл бұрын

Totally agree. I had a tgt and t300before. And I spent around 10 hours play time on my new DD wheel just to make It somewhat comparable with my old tgt. Don’t need to mention that my DD wheel felt like a garbage at the beginning.

I agree with you RC. I use a Thrustmaster TMX and a Logitech G29 and i am perfectly happy with the force feedback and the overall driveabilty. Keep up the great work RC.

@random callsign You know, this is what I really like about you! You're a true Rogue Squadron salmon swimming unafraid against the popular current! :D Keep doing you, man! Love it! (And I'm a DD owner/user!)

@randomcallsign

3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate that!

Just build an average dual screen rig for my G25 and now I start to notice, that either the settings or the wheel itself cant offer me enough feedback on certain corners for example in F1 (Baku - T18/T19, Monza - Ascari). The backend seems to kind of float around without providing me with enough info to counter that, or if I do I tend to exceed the necesarry counter movement, resulting in a spin of course. Was looking at the CSLs, bit then also discovered these pricey DDs. Do you reckon the CSL would solve my problem compared to my ancient G25? Dont have any high ambitions, just want to have good quality experience when I find time for simracing - couple of times per week, 2h avgm

I think for drifting, and maybe rallying there is a performance benefit to a direct drive wheel, but I ordered mine for the fun factor.

I got a DD1 for myself last Xmas.. I can say if you've got a big enough wallet it's a definite cop, dont go broke for a DD wheel though. (Like my dumbass did?!)

For myself the CSW is sold for 700-900 dollars in my country for the base alone. And I’ll have to buy the podium hub since i drift a lot and I’d like to have a real rim on it. And that’s another $300 before tax in my country. And at that price a cheaper dd wheel is just more worth it. But I agree, I can’t find myself to justify buying a simcube or a podium dd since they’re $2000+ in my country

@mc483

3 жыл бұрын

Australia or New Zealand?

It’s about immersion not performance. I think I’m even a bit slower with strong FFB on SC 2 Pro , but difference in feel and immersion is huge between my previous T300. If you’re really into sim racing it’s worth it.

Thank you for this vid RC. Ive been looking at the DD1 and the Clubsport V2.5 and after seeing this i'll be going for the clubsport. It seems like the better wheel for my situation (deskracer)

@gjdriessen1

3 жыл бұрын

Let us know how the wheel is and in particular the desk mount. I am also considering that wheel or the TS PC racer.

@simond5583

3 жыл бұрын

@@gjdriessen1 I recently bought a csw and use a desk mount because I pack it away and use the desk for work too. I decided not to get the fanatec mount and instead have bolted the wheelbase to a piece of thick particle board and then attach to the desk with two g-clamps. It is rock solid and am glad I went for this option as it avoids the central fastener that the fanatec mount has and is easy to install/remove. Just be aware of the clearance at the back if you want to remove the cables. I leave the plugged into the wheelbase so it's not an issue.

@gjdriessen1

3 жыл бұрын

@@simond5583 thanks good idea if I go with this wheel. Why do you prefer your self made clamp solution compared to fanatec’s? Ie what is wrong with that one?

@simond5583

3 жыл бұрын

@@gjdriessen1 I don't think there's anything wrong with it, reviews actually say its very good. For me I was not sure whether I could get my monitor right up against the wheelbase (I like it as close as possible) so I left it out knowing I could always order it if my diy solution didn't work. I also liked avoiding the central clamp that it has and also save $100 (in Aus) which I can spend on other things.

@gjdriessen1

3 жыл бұрын

@@simond5583 Thanks for the quick response. That's not cheap indeed. Does the DIY solution allow you to get the monitor closer than you would with the fanatec one? I would love to see a picture or something.

verdict: only get direct if you are really serious about sim racing or training for real life

Absolutely worth it for me.......l love the quick response.

Enjoy it

I couldn't get on with either of Fanatec's belt drive wheels, felt very odd around the hand wheels central position, and I couldn't ever tune it out (fine wheelbases everywhere else, I thought) I was much more comfortable with a TS-PC & a set of prototype TP3A pedals (which I think give Clubsport pedals a run for their money in feel if not construction altho'they're still going strong) I've now switched to the CSL DD 8Nm and the most noticeable thing I noticed initially was it's immediacy, you really feel like there's zero latency between input and and action. Not that I ever felt that any belt drive was slow. I think that I would go for a CSL DD if it's in your budget, but if you look up torque figures for real cars with & without power steering I doubt that you'd need more than 8Nm, so personally I wouldn't bother with anything much more than 10Nm. Interesting vid thanks. Also I'd like to add that if you can't accommodate a full rig, Next Level Racing's Wheel Stand DD is a great buy, completely solid with no visible movement of the wheel or pedal decks, can also become a full cockpit, it is quite expensive £250-£300 for the wheel stand (which doesn't fold) and another £600 for the rear frame and seat.

I'm happy with my G29, bought the complete set (new) on a sale in 2019 for 210 euros in the country with the highest vat on the world. However I'm thinking about replacing the pedals to load cell (probably TM T-LCM) and buying a wheel stand.

@electro5175

Жыл бұрын

Exactly the g29 is still amazing for its price

@-fatal-

Жыл бұрын

@@electro5175 It's not bad, but the best price/value now is the T300 imo. Although since that comment I've had a T300 and now a CSL DD with a T-LCM and a NLR 2.0. My wallet cries. :D

My G25 was free And I love it 😂

@ReaLzEdits

3 жыл бұрын

I've had my G25 since I was about 11 or 12. It's survived being out in direct rain somehow, and has been given some new life with mods. Still a really great wheel that has lasted 10x longer than I expected.

As I am just getting into sim racing, the CSL will do me just fine. The DD1 is no doubt great, but I am not willing to drop that kind of money on a DD wheel. I have no doubt they will begin dropping in the future.

bros got the e621 wheel

I went DD for the reasons you mention but instead of going all out Fanatec or Simucube I decided to get an Accuforce v2. Is priced the same as the Fanatec Clubsport v2.5 with more than enough power and software that can personalize that to my needs! To be honest you dont need more than that if you were to go DD.

@AndreMiguelLopes69

3 жыл бұрын

That is true outside Europe with a price of $1000. In Europe the price is €1365 + shipping (we pay VAT, IVA, whatever). In Europe Fanatec is a better value and with better support.

You are the guy that read all comments!

To go back and reanswer this question with the CSL DD coming out: probably worth it

heard by other of people its the closest feeling you get to a real car but its so damn expensive

Im soon getting a Thrustmaster t300 RS GT as my first Wheel after some research i think it will be the right wheel for me to get into Sim Racing.

Is motion worth it? Is VR worth it? Is DD worth it? Not if it is about lap times, irating etcetera. But for immersion, oh boy. But at a cost!

@randomcallsign

3 жыл бұрын

That's exactly the truth

@iamrocketray

3 жыл бұрын

You want Emersion: nothing beats VR, so real I tried to adjust the rear view mirror Lol.

Hi, does your opinion still stands, when today I can get CSL DD (5Nm) base for 199€ if I buy wheel and pedals? I'm looking for upgrade from TMX Pro with Fanatec CSL DD + McLaren GT3 v2 + CSL elite v2 pedals. Thanks

@randomcallsign

10 ай бұрын

Hi, this video is essentially outdated. My opinion doesnt stand due to the rise of small form direct drives.

I’d say if you just drive GT3 cars in ACC all the time just use a Logitech. However, if you like to drive beasts with massive wide slicks, no power steering, tons of horsepower and no diver aids. A dd wheel will give you a more authentic experience then any belt driven wheel.

Which would you recommend most for drifting? Csl, clubsport v2.5 or dd?

@randomcallsign

3 жыл бұрын

What your wallet let's you

Direct drive wheels don't have to be that expensive - I just got the AccuForce V2 ("your way") base, and bolted on a $40 ebay rim using a homemade sequential instead of buying a button plate. Total cost was less than $800, which is pretty close to the CSW 2.5 really.

Makes me rethink my future upgrade plan....tmx pro goes to ts-pc instead of cheapest DD (simagic m10k)? ..not much different cost wise.. opting for reliability

I would not recommend a DD for their first wheel either.

Nice to get that covered! Would you say the CSL is worth it over the T300?

@randomcallsign

3 жыл бұрын

depends if you are interested in one ecossystem over the other. the csl is better, but what makes or breaks it is the ecossystem. kzread.info/dash/bejne/jKGCysSEl7W8pqQ.html

@Mountain_Manu

3 жыл бұрын

@@randomcallsign ok thanks for the answer, just watched your video. However I don't really care about the ecosystem tbh, I already have Clubsport V2 pedals and just contemplating, if a change of the wheel makes sense for me. Only thing in that regard I care about is the feeling and immersion of the wheel. Still undecided if the upgrade is worth the price or if it makes more sense to upgrade to the CSW already

Nice Aliens reference.

Lol that comment at the end

I definitly wouldn't get into a setup that costs more than current automobile. For the sake of immersion experience my TS-PC , HTC vive and my custom made pvc rig is more than enough without braking the bank. As my dad used to tell me "Son whatever makes you happy"

couldn't agree more. if price to value concerns are priority 1, you've already eliminated this off your consideration set. on it's face there's nothing pragmatic about a DD wheel. but then again, someone searching for tenths isn't concerned with pragmatism so much.

How large is you screen? I'm looking for and upgrade from my 32" TV atm.

@randomcallsign

3 жыл бұрын

32 inch. Benw 3203r

@danibot3000

3 жыл бұрын

Hmmm, strange, i never see the left car window on my 32" (27° in AC/C). Do you use a larger FOV than the fov-calculators recommend?

@itchie

3 жыл бұрын

I would be upset with fanatec also . Simucube on the other hand

I keep hearing this opinion. I'm going to take it, and step down from a Direct drive wheel, and get a CSL and upgrade the pedals to at least the CSPs.

@randomcallsign

3 жыл бұрын

If you have the money go for dd. If you are in between, there's no point.

@wwjnz9263

3 жыл бұрын

@@randomcallsign My thinking was, if I am going to spend about $900 USD on a Fanatec CSW with a BMW wheel, I might as well pay the extra $100-$150 for the Accuforce. Mounting and accessories became the biggest fly in the ointment though. If I stick with Fanatec, I can wait on the pedals seeing that I have a working set of CSR pedals. But now that I can buy the CSL WRC wheel and keep on with my setup has me debating not to switch.

I think the CSL DD really changes your opinion due to the cheap price.

Let me sell my kidney

Personally, my next wheel would be a direct-drive. That would be coming from a Driving force GT, so I feel this would be a massive upgrade.

@nebulaton1137

Жыл бұрын

Did you ever upgrade? I just upgraded from DFGT to Moza R5. It's insane difference. Pedals are more of an adjustment but the wheel feels incredible comparatively.

@djmustang000

Жыл бұрын

@@nebulaton1137 Work in progress, I ordered a Simagic Alpha Mini and some of the Moza Pedals. Gonna get h'em soon, can't wait.

Im looking to get one but this seals the deal

😎👍

What would be your TL;DW for a DD priced at around 500€?

@randomcallsign

3 жыл бұрын

The simagic is more expensive than that.

@momorious

3 жыл бұрын

@@randomcallsign I didn't talked about the Simagic, just a general question what would be your opinion on a DD for around that price?

@randomcallsign

3 жыл бұрын

Is that an hypothetical? If a dd did exist at that price point it would be great

@renelammers813

3 жыл бұрын

well i don’t think DD wheels are that cheap, you’d have to spend a bit more

@momorious

3 жыл бұрын

@@designamk1160 oh Yeah and it's you with your dumb comments again, hihi.

Yap, from belt drive force feedback is way lower, and also the experience is not so great

is a new wheel worth it? i have the g29

@randomcallsign

3 жыл бұрын

only you will know

@hexa8700

3 жыл бұрын

@@randomcallsignbut. Will it be a difference? Is it more realistic.

Yes they are worth it but they aren't what people make them out to be they sre the best but you can be just as good and enjoy it just as much with the best belt wheels hell half of the people coming from the cswv2.5 said it felt the ssme and they expected more of course it'd more peorrful but the feeling was pretty much the same which is huge to say yes dd is the best but don't be In a rush if you enjoy your setup already lol hell I still enjoy thrusmaster wheels something about how they feel in games its almost like all Sim games are made with thrustmaster or something like acc thrusmaster wheels feel the best as crazy as it sounds lol something to think about how these games are made still with certain wheels in mind lol

People move up to through the ecosystems anyways so why not jump straight to dd? It ideally would cost less in the long run no?

don't use a dd wheel but a g25

DD simdad owners seething.

Ok I've watched the first Seconds of your video and I agree with you of course they're not worth it just like paying ridiculous amount of money for a supercar or a 4-wheel drive or big giant house but they still nice to have if you can't afford it really not anyone else's problem but yours thank you goodbye

Imo the csw2.5 is so good there's no point in dd having tried them back to back

@djdel002

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Skint14A, I am stuck on this exact decision. I am having problems with my 2nd T300 and has always felt notchy anyways and I've been going crazy trying to research and find out if I should go 2.5 or DD1 and if the DD1was worth it. Some say yes and others say no .So hard without being able to try these wheels. I'm wondering from your comment if I should just save myself a big chunk of money and stick with the CSW. Just want something that is smooth. I can't stand the notchy belt feel on the T300 anymore. Thanks!

@Will_M600

3 жыл бұрын

@@djdel002 I'd say you won't be disappointed with the csw2.5, yes technically the dd is slightly better but the csw2.5 is already so good you won't ever want more imo

@djdel002

3 жыл бұрын

@@Will_M600 Thanks so much for the reply!

Well yes but actually no

DD-wheels should last at least 3 if not 10 times longer than a Fanatec Elite and just ask Abgefahren! about the problems the Elite can have like failing several times during a 24h race. Not sure if a DD1 or 2 survive lots of years, but my Accuforce runs like on day one after 5 years of heavy usage on strong setting. This reliability is impossible with a belt-driven wheel and even if it's still working, the belt can't be like new just by design. So in the long run a DD-wheel should provide more hours of usage per buck and more bang. You buy cheap, you buy twice at least. And talking about strength: Sim-Racing is a sport for me, actually the only one I practice atm and I like to muscle the cars a bit, even it doesn't help with lap times. Now with my SC2 Pro there is plenty of overhead to go very strong and great workout.

I think for the money I would get some real life experience like karting or track day. It's more enjoyable and valuable than any sim racing.

@ekzotic1

3 жыл бұрын

@TheSavvyNinja yes I agree. I just have been simracing more than 10 years and got quite bored if it. And I thought that with amounts of money like this I would rather drive irl myself. It's different emotions unlike staring at artificial graphics with abstract physical engines netcode and other computer stuff. But if you enjoy it or use it as training tool I can understand that. So for everyone it will be a different situation.

Could it be that telling ppl the facts + collecting all the data is not as rewarding than presenting opinions in a fancy way on this platform? No offense.

I stick with a G920

First :D