Think the most infuriating thing about emulation collections like these is it misconstrues people's value of what matters. Instead of focusing how well crafted the emulation is they only look at how many games are thrown in and some gimmicky crap like 3D menus. Lost count of how many times I see people complain an M2 release with one or two games was not worth the $30 or $40 price tag despite the fact they're some of the best game preservationists in the business right now.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Oh that s a great point! Yes it does throw off people s perception of value. Like they buy garegga 2016 (one of the greatest ports ever) and they're like wow where are the 3d menus and cartoon screenshots, how bare bones.

@lunaria_stg

Жыл бұрын

People don't recognise the value of proper porting and emulation AKA quality, unfortunately. They only measure value in terms of the number of new features, or quantity. So they end up surprised when they find out quality doesn't come cheap. Speaking of M2 though, their Toaplan Garage releases starts to feel a little more quantity over quality. Of course they still have the accurate emulation and gadgets, but they aren't doing special things like arrange modes anymore. Instead, they're throwing in a bunch of console ports. Well, it is certainly in the name of game preservation, but it does feel a little cheap compared to their first ShotTriggers releases, I feel.

@brandonkruse6412

Жыл бұрын

This is unfortunately true and why we see so many sub-par retro ports onto modern consoles. The franchise sells itself and the average gamer who has fond memories of burning quarters looks at a $40 price-tag and thinks he’s getting a steal on a cheap folder of ROMs with fancy packaging. You can take that $40, put it towards any cheap emulation machine like a Vita or Raspberry Pi and get a better experience than this.

@thomasffrench3639

6 ай бұрын

And when games like the Castlevania Anniversary Collection gets released people complain about it not having rewind

Yeah, I was waiting for someone to lag test these games before I dropped ANY cash on them. I saw all the positive reviews, but the mainstream media lost my trust a long time ago. The fact none of these outlets who review games for profit even thought to lag test the games is just shameful.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

It's a weird attitude that modern devs have about input lag, it's just a thing baby, so unless it's insanely high, to bring it up in a review is kind of dirty or something ha.

@RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS77

Жыл бұрын

They probably honestly did not notice. I myself have sometimes not noticed how bad input lag was until I figured out ti was there and fixed it and suddenly found myself playing much better. The guys reviewing this I doubt are even really big action gamers.

Thanks for uploading this man. I kept seeing people talk about how this is "the best retro collection ever!" and I thought to myself how I've been burned too many times by those claims to buy it day 1. I was hoping that you'd end up making it video since you and Shmup Junkie are the only people I know who give these emulated collections the attention they need...and lo and behold, you did! I just wish you came bearing better news, lol.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I know right, I saw some of those claims and I just didn't see how that was possible ha. Having an assortment of games is cool and all, but the TMNT library isn't exactly bursting with heavy hitters, I like turtles in time SNES but the rest of the games are average at best. The capcom beat em up collection has a stronger line up I would say. But yeah, I think if you see a smaller port or collection, you might get better performance. But it always seems to be the more stuff they start piling in, the more input lag seems to pile up. Probably because they are trying a bunch of different games that require different types of emulation.

Thank you for this brutally honest take. I remember buying the Metal Slug Anthology for PS2 and the lag made these games unplayable. We should know better but it's always about pursuing that nostalgia acid trip down memory lane when we got all those awesome games in the first time and could waste entire days in front of the tv in our pajamas. We don't have that free time anymore so clicking on that buy now button is like taking the blue pill. No excuse for the mainstream gaming press though. Cheers!

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

No problem! Yes, Metal Slug Anthology broke my black gamer heart. I was never the same XD I got it so excited (being a massive metal slug fan) thinking, wow this is too good to be true, and it literally was. The lag on that thing is a wickedness.

I feel like at this point, this kind of info has to be displayed at least on the online shop, like it should display the framerate the game will run, the resolutions, and ESPECIALLY the input lag, i'm getting so tired of people having to fiddle with annoying metrics and equipment just to give people the chance to make a more informed purchasing decision, when the devs have to be the ones informing people of this kind of make or break stuff.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I agree! Yeah it absolutely sucks because other than my own channel, I rarely can know how a game performs because reviews are not going to bring this information to the consumer. And the only times reviews will mention input lag as an issue is when it is out of control high ha.

@Barnewallian

Жыл бұрын

Yeah it's a great idea, and in an ideal world where people bought these things in order to actually play them more than 5mins it might happen. Problem is, again, that nobody besides a bunch of geeks like us really cares :(

I actually think MLIG and the like are counterproductive at getting most regular players to care about input lag. Like what they get out of their vids is how people who care about lag have to buy 500$ worth of equipment (or a giant CRT) to play a game, so they stop caring, not realizing they can have almost the same experience on whatever computer they're watching that video on.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

That is true, it does seem like the input lag issue was more of a fringe benefit rather than a primary focus. I personally love emulation (I talk about it all the time on the channel), but the emulation needs to be quality, especially with input lag. Corporate emulation, for whatever reason, gets held to this really light standard though where it can be unresponsive and awful, and yet excuse after excuse is made.

Respect for being brutally honest and not contributing to the obvious astroturfing with half-assed collections like these. It's clear that they only pander to nostalgia-heads and impulse-buyers, even though everyone who knows a thing or two about emulation on PC/Pi/MiSTer has been able to enjoy these games for years. I've always been wary of Digital Eclipse and I see that nothing much has changed lmfao

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yeah something is up with Digital Eclipse, in that I think they have some very generous industry connections. For example they had a guest appearance on an ign talk show, it's odd. I don't see IGN inviting M2 onto their talk show. kzread.info/dash/bejne/g5-t2surdMnMedo.html

I'm getting tired of the gaming industry these days. They not only plan on re-selling the same games over and over again, but they plan on doing that with the laziest tactics, resulting in lazy compilations/remakes/reissues. They can't see a new gaming system coming out that it's time to refuel the cycle of re-releases. And gaming journalism is pretty much dead, they're basically marketing sectors nowadays.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yes agree completely. You wanna job kid, go sling some warmed over roms from 20 years ago, that s how you move up in the industry ha

@BoozeAholic

Жыл бұрын

I can't believe they're still selling PS2 ports for $60. In some cases such as with Nintendo, they'll release lazy 16bit sprite crap like Triangle Strategy for $60 & it'll still sell over a million copies. It's not a good tactics game either, it's fairly brainless & doesn't have permadeath but it's what modern "strategy" fans love. Strat games with zero strategy.

"Everyone has a SNES." Uh, not sure about that. This stuff is for people who've no access for it otherwise. Sure, they might be overpriced or run poorly but saying everyone could just get and play the console versions is a stretch imo.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I suppose I should amend that to, "everyone has a *way* to play snes" if you know what I am getting at.

@HighLanderPonyYT

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground Ah yes, I can get behind that. I do get you. lol

There is one more thing that the arcade version of Turtles in Time does that is incredibly cruel - if you're in a level for more than 5 minutes and haven't died, the game drops a bomb with no warning right on top of you that kills you instantly. The reason they put it in is probably to reset the machine if a player goes AFK, but it also shows that they clearly did not intend for people to 1CC the game in the first place. You can technically dodge the bomb, but you'd need to know exactly when it drops and jump out of the way. It makes a 1CC of an extremely difficult game damn near impossible. Part of me thinks that the jank combat that punishes players who spam the attack button was an intentional decision to suck up as many quarters as possible.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yeah ha I ran into that trying to lag test ha, kept getting bombs dropped on me

I'd be worried if I couldn't notice 8 frames of input lag hahahahaha.

For comparison, I found through a google search that the recently released Capcom Fighting Collection has about 4 frames of lag at worst on Sony consoles, and 3 frames of lag on Xbox/PC. The FGC has done a good job educating players about the importance of responsive gameplay, hopefully the same can be done for the audience of these single player retro action games.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

That is a great point! Because the FGC mafia (and I say that with fondness) will hunt you down if you make their ports laggy, devs are more careful with the fighting game ports in terms of input lag. If only shmups and general arcade games had the same influence, then I'm sure we'd start seeing better ports.

@Mingodough

Жыл бұрын

3 frames is okay, 4 is getting there. I’m surprised the fgc didn’t flame that as hard.

@CKarasu13

Жыл бұрын

The fighting game collection is actually lower than 3 frames on PC, from what I've read. Only one game has 3 frames. The rest is like 1-2 frames at most. It's actually insane how close they are to original hardware accurate.

@Mingodough

Жыл бұрын

@@CKarasu13 ohhh on pc. Okay that’s cool. I’m a switch player so I got lag (though I’m the one who chose the switch version so partly my fault) rip :(

Oh boy! Now I’m curious. I honestly didn’t pick this up as I’ve got the original games for most and endless ways to play them. But this can’t possibly be Cotton Tribute levels of delay can it? 😮 Let’s find out.

@TheReki007

Жыл бұрын

nope. cotton saturn is unplayable

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Junkie this is a vid you won't want to miss XD

@dangunheadachron1603

Жыл бұрын

@@TheReki007 that's bs. City Connection updated it with a patch

@GeoffreySinkeler1973

Жыл бұрын

@@dangunheadachron1603 yes, with about 1-1,5 frames. This is still too much.

@ScottX68000

Жыл бұрын

@@dangunheadachron1603 They only lowered the lag by 1 or 2 frames, it was still horrendously bad. I sold my physical Switch copy after the patched dropped.

I bought the collection just for the original TMNT and I’m satisfied. I never played TMNT 2: The Arcade Game on NES and it was nice to have. I’m also glad to have Turtles in Time as well as all the other games in a convenient package.

It's so ridiculous that we need to get THIS FAR after a game's release and so many glowing reviews to actually find out if the emulation is worth a damn. It's like reading endless positive reviews for an awesome new car, buying it and then finding out it actually has square wheels. I had this on my wishlist because I'd read the reviews and (stupidly) assumed that input lag was good because even though they didn't specifically call it out, they did cite the quality emulation numerous times (you know what they say about ASSuming). I read that Digital Eclipse were asked about the lag and their response was something along the lines of "We didn't notice any". My dudes, just measure it if you're really that oblivious FFS!! I actually really like these retro re-releases so this really pisses me off. I play a bunch of them on PC with a low lag VRR display, bust out the Hori RAP and slap on a Reshade CRT filter and honestly have a great time. If a collection is laggy or has poor emulation, I'll pick it up on a big discount and actually pull the ROMs out to use in Retroarch (yes, I understand to a lot of people this is a pretty odd stance to take but it is what it is). Just out of interest, I like to take some basic lag measurements myself. Nice review, Mark, thanks.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

That is actually what inspired me to do the review. I wasn't too interested in the collection since these games have been around forever, but when I saw how high the review scores were I was curious, and oh boy it's like turning over a rock and finding a bunch of roaches underneath.

I don't understand the frustration people have at mentioning frame delay, it's info I want to know to make an informed decision. Just glad someone mentions it. It's info I can use that isn't declared, that helps me make my own purchase decision. So keep going strong!! Someone's gotta do it

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Exactly my brother!

This is the first time I bought a collection. I’m satisfied with it. Contra collection went on sale so I’m buying that next.

Konami adding more frames than an art museum.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

3x the amount of frames! That's a lot of extra content if you think about it XD

@iraplikeyoubreathe

Жыл бұрын

Ha, good one.

Lifehack: The solution to input lag, is to surgically augment your brain to reduce reaction time by a 12 frame equivalent. you'll need to relearn how to catch a baseball, and deathbomb but it'll pay off eventually. They keep making turtles TV shows, they're probably hoping to bank on curious new fans popping up who can get their parents to buy it, rather than people who actually care. Which would explain the aggressive ads that I'm certain KZread is pushing out to any KZread video related to the show Also funny thing, I literally got an ad for it from starting this video.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yes gotta get that Elon Musk brain chip and set it to turbo XD And yes on the cartoon point, this does feel very strategic marketing type of stuff. Like when the nickolodeon logo popped up on the title screen I was like "oh boy, here we go." They can launch as many cartoon as they like, just don't rip off players with laggy ports in the process.

@agent42q

Жыл бұрын

smoke weed everyday.

@MrMartellSincere

Жыл бұрын

Glad I got KZread Premium. Ads drive me crazy

Honestly I wish there was some kind of database that compares the performance and differences between every release of every game, so people could easily make informed decisions on how to play them their preferred way

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

yes me too, the best I know of is my own database theelectricundergr.wixsite.com/the-electric-undergr/blank-2

Sweet, I was wondering where I was going to find the $40 for Sol Cresta! Thanks! Seriously though, while 6 frames is on the upper end of what I can comfortably play, it's frustrating that it wasn't even a point of discussion for the average review. If a small operation like Evercade can produce better emulation than you with collections going for half the price and running on grossly inferior hardware, you're probably doing something wrong. I'm down with all the extras because celebrating the history and legacy of these games is something an official collection should do, but not at the cost of core game quality.

I wish I could try these collections out before I buy them. Because I think lag is something that effects some games and some people more than others. But I never know how much lag will effect me in a certain game until I try it myself. However we I agree that it’s really irritating that these companies can’t seem to get it right. It really incentivizes just emulating these hsmes

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

That s a lot of what I say in the review, they just slap together whatever add a bunch of random crap and 9/10

Thank you for calling this stuff out! More "reviewers" need to do this. Input lag is a plague and more often than not I see people including friends of mine saying they don't notice it. I try the same game and I'm like Eeeeuughh! This is horrible! I'm glad M2 exists because they actually have standards when it comes to input lag and try their best to eliminate it. (Mini consoles aside) A couple of crits though: > Please list what system you're testing on because input lag varies between consoles at times. > Also part of why I buy these collections is for the extras instead of the game ROMs. It's overly cynical to say people don't want the production material scans or manuals etc. I find it interesting/entertaining to have that stuff included especially if I don't own CIB copies of those games, which even as someone who collects games are hard to come by without paying out a lot of money.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

No problem my dude!!!

Even IF the collection ran flawlessly (no audio, visual or input problems) the $40 price-tag is insulting. Everyone had so much hype for this collection, ignoring any possible concerns and pre-ordering their money away. I do not give a crap about digital “goodies” that artificially inflate the price. I just want to play the games and have a good experience that’s as close to the original as possible. That shouldn’t be too much to ask for seeing as we have *free* and working emulation software on everything from consoles to Androids. There should be no complaints about a $40 emulation package for SNES/NES/GB. These platforms had have near-perfect emulation on multiple platforms for many years. Heck, I can play all but the arcade ROMs on my Vita, Series S and PC with near perfect emulation and low lag. Glad I saved my money on this one and didn’t buy into the hype. On the bright side, I’m very pleased with the new Turtles game. It runs so good on the Series S/Switch and is exactly like what I’d expect from a TiT successor.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yeah the price is pretty damn brutal for essentially 3 quality games that have been easy to get forever ha.

This is the kind of content I live for. This kind of critical review of games journalism really harkens back to the fall of gaming blogs like Kotaku and Destructoid. Gaming journalism at the time had become so complacent it didn't take much to disrupt the entire industry. I don't need an over-enthusiastic fanboy regurgitating PR for the games industry; I just want to know if the games are *actually* good.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yeah that era of gaming journalism has been crushed. I think the reason why is because there is much more money in the industry now so a wild gun reviewer is more of an liability than an asset. Because if you start pissing off publishers, the contributions (direct or indirect) dry up

@error4159

Жыл бұрын

But this level of "critiquing" can and will go over the heads of most gamers. The masses don't know or care about frame lag or frame rate. Sorry to break it to you but these are niche topics and to expect them to care about these things is just ridiculous. That's why blogs don't talk about these subjects but it makes us feel superior to say they're all in the publishers pocket.

I think at this point we understand that mainstream reviewers rarely test for input lag unless it is egregious enough for them to sense the delay in normal gameplay, and many of them do not regularly play the originals to have a benchmark sense in mind. It's good people like you point it out, but I also don't think it's surprising why the collection was rated highly. The collection does include a lot of smaller features that do not often get included in others. Perhaps that's more of a problem with the other collections, but it still does stand out with the feature set. This is also in the context where the average collection is lucky to include a gallery and two or three screen filters at best. standards are admittedly low. And I dont know if you've checked retro prices recently but many of these games are very expensive lol. Older turtles games have had some lackluster ports included as secret inclusions within other TMNT games (like how the gamecube tmnt titles included the old Arcade game), but aside from that most of these games have been in licensing purgatory since Konami just sat on them. I own several of the originals but I picked them up around 10 years ago. Even just a cart of Hyperstone Heist can be tough to get for under $100 now, and then you have to have either a crt or some upscaler/linedoubler to actually make your genesis look halfway decent. So the only realistic options for newcomers in 2022 is either emulate on a pc, or buy a collection. I definitely agree lag could have been lessened. I just very much disagree about this being an "unnecessary collection." Several of these games have largely been only available on their original hardware, and i would sound like a crazy gatekeeper if I told someone to spend triple digits to get turtles in time, or a few hundred on a MiSTer setup. Retro has sadly priced a lot of people out nowadays.

Digital Eclipse? No man, thanks. I remember Street Fighter Aniversary Collection and Samurai Shodown Collection, that has not just a lot of imput lag, but fu** up resolution problems, audio glitches and amature UI. Everything just feels so lazy and cheap. But hey, the menus are beautiful, lots of concept arts, 9 out of 10.

@shinbakihanma2749

Жыл бұрын

I admit that I purchased the SamSho collection (on sale). I was hesitant, because it was Digital Eclipse who developed it, but it was a drastic price reduction, and it was a Samurai Shodown collection, which is very rare.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

That really is what it comes down to. Just make sure the car's paint is fresh and polished ... nevermind the busted engine inside.

You’re a real one Mark. We need this kind of discussion in the review space. I honestly don’t think most people even understand that the reason these ports feel bad are because of the lag introduced by these low effort porting companies. I think most people assume it must be the way its always been or just straight up don’t understand the concept of lag at all. I almost feel like we need some more super egregious ports to come out of something beloved so people will pay attention and put two and two together. We need a port of super mario bros with 15 frames of input lag so people can’t ignore it and this discussion becomes main stream!

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

That is my FEAR 100% that new players pick up the collection, read reviews that say it s just like the good ole days of pizza hut and cartoons, and then the new players play the games with this awful input lag and think "old games suck, back to Minecraft." This is why I go on and on about the psikyo collection, because the arcade versions of the games need to be represented as not a pile of lag

@lunaria_stg

Жыл бұрын

That actually sounds like OoT on the Switch online service. I know it kicked up quite a fuss in the more hardcore spaces (like speedrunners), but I wonder how the mainstream actually reacted to it. My guess is they didn't care or notice.

@infernogott

Жыл бұрын

"Sonic the Hedgehog Genesis" already did this for the GBA. There have been horrible ports before. They only make the mediocre ones look better.

I own a lot of these originals. I find the hype of lag to be hype. I recommend the collection…

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Reverse hype I think would be a better description, disappointment

Not everyone can afford the arcade cabinet and the 360 port of TMNT Arcade was delisted years and years ago. So no, not all these games are accessible to the public.

I would love to know what these games are DOING for all those frames of lag. I mean, the most basic game loop has you checking controller input, running the game logic, drawing to a back buffer and then waiting for vsync to swap them. This means worst case you press a button IMMEDIATELY after the input was polled and so you have to wait for the current frame to draw, wait for vsync then wait for the next frame to draw and vsync/buffer swap again. That is literally the least amount of effort you can expend on a video game logic loop and it gives you maximum 2 frames. I understand that modern consoles seem to take the output of the game and hold it for another frame, probably for integration into their own interfaces, recording... whatever. So 3 frames. So what are they doing for the extra 3-5? Maybe the game decides it's going to buffer an extra frame so it can blend frames for some temporal filter? Maybe it is trying to do controller input smoothing? Are they maybe doing all this then sending the result into Unity for lazy cross platform support adding Unity's lag on top? I don't know. So yes, I understand that getting lag down really low is non-trivial in an emulation scenario. RetroArch didn't get where it got overnight and quite frankly many emulator coders had to be taught they were doing it wrong before low lag became a reasonable expectation. But 6? That's a "take it back and try again" level of "you failed."

Tribvtes from Germany. I just love this channel man. Keep continuing.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Cello! Thanks so much my friend!

Haha, I got the Switch version as well and I was seriously doubting myself as to me some of the games felt really laggy, but no review (even from some writers that often seem to know what they're talking about) mentioned anything about it and went on about how it's the new standard for compilations. Luckily I still have my Turtles in Time and Tournament Fighters carts and those are my favs anyway.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I think writers are generally giving up on discussing input lag, even the well intentioned ones. For the most part people are blase about the subject so it doesn't reward you with much industry goodwill or even goodwill among new viewers. People not only like to be told what they want to hear, but the environment of youtube is that they don't even respect an alternate opinion ha. If you have a different take than the 100 other people in the alg, something is WRONG WITH YOU.

@michielkroder4031

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground Yeah, that could very well be it.

yooo That intro was too funny lol

I kind of wish I had seen this video back within my return window.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I m sorry my friend, returns are so tough to pull off these days too

I think these collections are great for people thats already into emulation but still want a physical copy of their games, for regular consumers on the other hand...

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I can see where you are coming from here, but as a reviewer that's too niche of a use of the product to evaluate if that makes sense ha.

Dude. That intro was perfect. Also->"Reviews, they're just advertising at this point." 👍

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

That intro is my fav i've done on the channel so far ha. The damn thing took about 2 hours to edit by the end (jeez). Also yes the sublimation of the reviewer into an unofficial (sometimes official) marketer has been a nasty one. These days I'm not even sure if most reviewers can bring themselves to do a negative review of a mainstream product.

I do admit that casually I enjoyed the arcade game collections back in the day like Taito, Tecmo, and Midway due to the game selection. Extra bonuses seem to be the cream of the crops like interviews to shine light on the creation process. With M2 games being the shining example of having “definitive improved” editions from original release, some would think to take the plunge like them, but more preservation types go towards a game and extras boutique since it’s more cost effective for volume. Unless more developers take the route similar to M2 with definitive improved editions that impact all audiences, including casuals and more dedicated players, the presentation fluff boutique will still be the way to go until then. Your review rant is very funny, and wished that you did more in depth comparison on the menu navigation to find out what you mean by unnecessary fluff.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yes i love the M2 model of putting together ports, you can tell they are true passion projects, rather than mandated by publishers or whatever ha.

@JohnshiBRPG

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground Ah... Now that I searched a video that showcases non playable extras called the "Turtles' Lair", I wonder if meddling through search system seems fun? kzread.info/dash/bejne/dot_09SlkcvNYbg.html You missed using the search navigation system to make proof of a "bloated collection fluff"

Leonardo, Michaelangelo, Donatello, and Ralph This made me chuckle.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Leo, Donny, Mikey, and Ralph ha That's what I called them growing up :-)

@killaken2000

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground classic kid stuff. when I was a little kid I thought a sequel was a "seek wolf" and wondered where the wolves were.

I don't get who those collections are even made for - 6 frames of input lag? One savestate slot? Laggy 3D menus that look like they're made in Unity? There's just so much collections like his lately - we've seen times where to fix issues and make rereleases worthwhile, entire games were remade from ground up, like some of those 3D NES games (Kirby's Adventures having all of it's infamous lag removed). Sure, those weren't perfect and still quite pricey, but at least they had *something* to offer. But this? Hilarious intro, by the way, brilliant job.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

yeah I think there is some kind of memo going around where devs think, "ok, no need for any additional gameplay content, all we need to do is through in random bonus fluff and cute menus." Meanwhile in the old days nintendo would have to re draw their entire games to justify super mario all stars ha.

Thank God someone said it! love the videos and honesty. A shining beacon of light in the gaming community.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much nano! Yeah I know the feeling of staring at this horrible mess and then everyone around you is declaring it a masterpiece. That's why I chose pleasentville for the little intro, reminds me of that movie so much.

4:12 is when I subbed to this channel. Holy shit, THANK YOU! For those of us that experienced original hardware on CRT, we know firsthand how awful input lag is (as well as shit motion on flatscreens). And no one except a few niche folks cover it anymore.

Full disclosure I was playing Gunbird2 on Switch while watching this, haha. Oh well, such is the fate if you only have one console

I'll never understand why people always hype the hell out of digital eclipse when M2 has been able to do everything that these guys can do and do it 1m times better I still hate how little credit M2 gets in thw industry, but no it's always digital eclipse that gets big projects

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely 100% digital eclipse have the marketing M2 have the talent :-)

@rijjhb9467

Жыл бұрын

That's not true: I'm a semi-casual and I knew about M2, they're renowned in the retro gaming scene. Most gaming channels and even mainstream sites talk about them. I had never heard of digital eclipse instead.

@LittleBigKid707b

Жыл бұрын

Well, Sega did give M2 the keys to do the Genesis Mini. If that's not huge , I don't know what is. Also, Konami contracted them to do a bunch of their game ports, like the Castlevania, Gradius and Contra collections and much more.. The point is, M2 gets a lot of big projects. You probably just aren't aware of them.

Please keep the warfare going! Having seen how bad Shredder's Revenge came out I was hoping the old school Turtles games might be worth diving in to, but I guess not on modern hardware. I feel so guilty for actually enjoying Gunbird 2 on the Psikyo collection even though I can play it anywhere else, it's just fun to practice it handheld in bed (it is a pretty bad collection for some great games though).

Matthew Deragisch here. So I agree with the performance side and extra content side of what you're saying. However as for the appeal of the other games I disagree. TMNT II the arcade game has not only extra levels but many of the BEST levels in the franchise's history. Absolutely love that, but without online play it's not as exciting and forces me to look at emulators anyways. The first NES TMNT game is something that a lot of people are going to check this collection out for, it's notorious and people want a cheap way to check it out (remember most casual audiences won't or can't emulate it) I think the first GB game is better than the second honestly though I like both, those are nostalgic in a way very few games are to me so I'm not objective. I also know most consider the third game boy game to be the real hidden gem in here. It's what I've seen most people talking about in regard to this collection. I know tournament fighters has a small online scene but NONE of them are giving up the TMNTxJL game that came out over this port. I do also think adding every version of these games and COUNTING them as separate games is a dirty trick 22 games my arse. Having limited online butchers the potential for even more casual players as well. If they were just going to wrap roms in emulators I feel they should have had more. Where are the GBA games? The PS2 games? Just get them all out there!

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Hey matt! Thanks for supporting the channel :-) Yeah I'm probably more dismissive of the NES games than most, but that style of NES game has never appealed to me and I'm honestly not much of a NES fan other than a few stand outs (like Ninja Gaiden) So my patience for these games, even as a kid, has always been thin ha. Also that would be funny if konami kept going and had a bunch of later console games included as well.

Thank you for saying every single thing you said.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

No problem my friend, I thought I'd try a new approach this time around and hammer the message home with a battering ram.

Thank you for this information. Keeping it real! I hope someone will make a website with lists of all lag tested games. The intro cracked me up! For those that do not understand the problem with lag. A simple description: The more lag a game has, the shorter you will play the game. You perhaps do not understand why you gave up so soon

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I do have my lag database, but an entire website dedicated to the gathering of this info would be amazing. theelectricundergr.wixsite.com/the-electric-undergr/blank-2

You forgot that all the people who already have the original hardware and the games don't care to play them again and ironically those people are the ones who bought the 150$ pack. If you look at the youtube channels some have the unboxing but most of them don't even open the game case because it's just a collection item not meant to be played.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Ha I think that actually proves my point completely XD

I posted a video about the online lag and input lag and most people seem to just not care and make fun of me lol. Good video man. You are spot on with a lot of points.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I feel your pain my brother, yeah there's this really strange attitude toward lag for a lot of people where they'd rather not know ha XD Even if they are suffering gameplay wise.

@Gamingwithgleez

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground for sure. It is really odd haha. Keep up the good work man.

I’m goin to get some crystal and I’m telling em electric underground sent me!

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Tell them you better get a discount, or the underground will come collect.

Showering Konami with praise allows them to get away with delivering sub standard Digital Eclipse collections. It doesn't bode well for the future.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Don't feed the Konami, it will bite you the second you turn your back on it ha.

Thanks for this review. I've been surprised by how many reviewers that I generally watch completely ignore the input lag. They rave about the extras way too much.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

It's a real slight of hand. Wave the cartoon screenshots with the right, slip in the input lag with the left ha. I do think there is a blind spot where performance is under-valued (honestly an after thought) and bonuses are way over valued. Like are we all really going to be scrolling through box art scans more than once ha.

I love these rants! Keep em coming!

Collectors do silly things with their money and it is funny from a gaming perspective but these products aren't for playing they are for shelving. I was pissed off around 2015 when I noticed collectors taking over the scene. But I'm okay with it now. Some of the products are pretty cool. You mentioned the MiSTer. The MiSTer might not exist if it wasn't for all the collectors out there burning money and keeping retro games in pop culture. Enjoy your destopian hellscape. Go to Game stop and buy a Zelda shirt. I did a video myself about collectors and retro gaming.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

It is a double eded sword for sure. Where collectors make certain projects much more possible than they have any right to be in a more casual market (like the mister) but on the other hand they also fall into some really nasty traps that favor nostalgia marketing and all that sort of thing. Also I hunted that vid you mentioned down and will have to give it a watch! I'll link it here for anyone curiously reading through this comment kzread.info/dash/bejne/aXaOx6Vpiqmod84.html

@riggel8804

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground yeah that's the video. I played through curse of the moon last night and I was really impressed. It's not the best game ever or anything but it is very good. I'm sure that game wouldn't have been made if it wasn't for all the nostalgia consumers. They do drag the hobby down to the lowest common denominator. For example I beat Curse of the Moon on the hardest difficulty settings and it still only took one night to clear.

Lmao people are gonna be so mad with you, I know some people have been saying that there is lag in these collection but still give it 8-10/10s. Which is fine ig since these people are just old boomers who want to be nostalgic but god damn, they’re really blind. I’ve also been hearing a lot of people go “digital eclipse should do more collections like this with other great games” and I’m just here like noooo there are better people for that. Digital eclipse is very mid sometimes bad in terms of lag and some annoying things like in the Sam sho collection you can’t view the move list until the match starts. Or in their capcom fighting collection with the darkstalkers games the move list is kinda confusing compared to the one they had in their street fighter collection

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yeah the quality of their porting in terms of actual performance is slipping hard. Also yes this is gonna make people upset ha, no punches pulled this time around

@ActionJaxonH

Жыл бұрын

"Old boomers... blind" . I'm noticing a trend of people making insulting and elitist comments toward anyone who isn't hyper sensitive to things like they are. Look, I understand some people are hyper focused on this stuff. But most aren't. That doesn't make them "boomers" or "blind" it makes them normal. If ppl want to care about this stuff that's fine. But the minute you start insulting anyone who isn't part of your cult, that's where you've crossed the line.

@Mingodough

Жыл бұрын

@@ActionJaxonH fair enough, I meant it in a tongue and cheek way. To be honest the lag doesn’t bother me much either, sorry if it offended you

Even though I fully sympathize with our point in regards to input lag but I don't see how this sort of criticism can really make an impact on a larger scale. In essence, input lag is already a highly specific and technical niche which is a genre that is itself that is already far more niche, then it becomes even more niche because only a small part of the Shmup community is also heavily into scores. I do sincerely believe that someone who isn't accustomed to having no input lag may truly not see the difference. I experience this issue often when it comes to framerate, I want games to run smooth because it overall enhances the game experience and feel. Some are just not used to it. Unfortunately, Shmups itself as a genre can be incredibly casual and hardcore at the same time. In many games, you already touched upon the fact that Shmup games are at times sold as popcorn, easy fastfood gaming that baits with nostalgia.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

A niche within a niche is where this channel lives though :-) I have no interest in analysis from the view of the greatest common denominator :-)

Would love to see a full Gradius collection. But if your talking 6-8 frames of input lag then it’s an absolute no way. !!!

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

You know, there is actually a really good gradius collection out there on the PSP, it's just stuck on a handheld sadly.

I also remembered these peps did the mega man collections. While very cool looking collections with UI and some special features, those collection have lag too for NES games! I can still bear it but there is always a bit of a learning curve again to get use to the lag. Also yes mark I do boot up the psikyo switch collection every month or two but that’s only because I haven’t learned mame yet :(

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Oh my yes I got burned so hard on the megaman x collection. I was so excited for that release (since I didn't have a ps1 at the time, I do now) and dear got the lag was out of control.

@TheSamuraiGoomba

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground The lag in mega man x is some of the worst I have ever felt. It's so bad certain moves, like instant dash jumps, are nearly impossible. At least for me. But DE did the porting work on the nes games. Capcom did the porting for X collection IIRC. Both ports are garbage though. I haven't tested instant slide jumps in the nes mega man games DE ported but the legacy collection has confirmed shitloads of lag.

@hngdman

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground I usually don't care that much about lag but Jesus Christ, the SNES games on the collection felt awful. I remember failing simple jumps over and over again in X1 because the timing for dash jump was all messed up and you couldn't just hold down dash to trigger it in that game.

I love how you focus on actual gameplay instead of nonsense. Breathe of fresh air!

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely my brother

Lol the polygon crypto logo

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

yep whoops ha! Meant to get the "journalism" site but apparently they are too lazy to make a logo that looks good.

I think I'm out. It's one thing to voice your opinions. I take no issue with that. But it's another to start ranting about those who don't share your opinions and hyper sensitive focus on things they don't notice or care about. "How can you not notice 8 frames lag?" I imagine that person is asking the same thing about you in reverse. Point being, most ppl don't notice or care. I know that's hard for ppl around here to accept, as more and more I see the, "I'm the elite gamer and I'm right, it's a problem, and if it doesn't bother you like it does me, or if you don't notice it like I do, there's something wrong with you" slander, followed by hostile remarks, jabs and insults toward those who don't share your particular niche perspective. I just want no part of it. Keep preaching to the choir, ranting about how you don't understand why the rest of the world doesn't share your views, mocking and belittling the 95% who don't see things the way you do. Voice opinion = good. Belittle those who don't share your voiced opinion = childish. Had this channel just kept it to voicing opinions rather than insulting those who disagree, I'd stick around. But I'm not into the whole, "take underhanded jabs at anyone who feels otherwise" thing. That's when you cross the line from just sharing how you personally feel about the matter, to mocking anyone who doesn't fall in line.

@atomicsamurai9742

Жыл бұрын

Im guessing you came for the enthusiasts take on this, so I have no idea why your offended. Other than a few jibes out of frustration and to be honest I agree with the man it's frustrating, everyones free to there opinion and while no one expects everyone to agree Im glad there's actually someone calling out these low effort ports, no offence but there's plenty of channels out there willing to tell you what you want to hear, beyond the opinions the game has 6-8 frames of input lag and that's a fact, basically sub par, I think most here would've been around in the arcade era and actually played these games back then, reffering to turtles in time of course , there's people that want the authentic arcade experience and when the asking price is placed where it is for something like this you would expect a certain level of quality, if you like it play it, no ones being elitist here no ones stopping you, me personally I want to make an informed decision when jumping in to somthing like this and that is becoming harder to do when games are more and more becoming above any actual valid critism

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

The same could be said about you though. So I'm not allowed to express my views and opinions because they offend you in some way? Of the two of us I'd say you're the hyper sensitive one my friend. Don't be hypocritical. You love to hear passionate takes on the stuff you agree with, and the second you have a video that is challenging you, you peace out in a self righteous manner. Also don't be lame, it's fun to battle with each other in the comments section, don't act like you don't enjoy it ha.

First off, Mark - that intro was comedic gold🤣 Also, IRON GALAXY STUDIOS (not Digital Eclipse) developed 3rd Strike Online. Digital Eclipse (those losers) developed the mediocre SF 30th Anniversary Collection a few years ago. Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Now, I've never understood the appeal of a collection of mediocre 30+ year old TMNT games. I find these games to be largely unremarkable, but far be it from me to deny any genuine fan of these games, their fun. But c'mon, 6 frames of lag on top of $40?! Unacceptable. You're probably the only person out here being honest about the mediocrity of this collection, while everyone else is just as delusional as they were with Shredder's Revenge. PS: where did you find that pic of April on the thumbnail. She is racktastic🤤

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yes that s right I got them mixed up, it was iron galaxy that did 3rd strike online (baller port), and eclipse did anniversary collection. Night and day releases. Fun fact the PS3 3rd strike port is like PCB level input lag if I remember correctly. Also Boghog recommended the artist who did the April o Neal pic, david liu, dude is amazing

@shinbakihanma2749

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground Yeah, you're right. I have both, PS3 and 360 versions of 3rd Strike Online, and the PS3 had lag issues on all of their Capcom fighters to some degree. I remember the PS3 version of Super Street Fighter IV and all the lag issues that entailed.

LOL I watched this and couldn't help looking over my Castlevania and Contra collections sitting on my shelf. Good point.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Hey I've been there myself many times, it's something we all struggle with ha.

@JogosMofados

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground the most bizarre for me is that I own most of those games in their original form already. 😅 Maybe I'm missing the Gameboy games, or the Japanese release of Hard Corps, but still this requires some deep analysis on what tick is retro gamers.

Speaking from a European perspective, getting the good versions of these old games on import can be very difficult or expensive. For us at least the collections are a godsend for convenience and accessibility when it comes to official releases. Also MLIG spoke a big game about using OG hardware but that’s super expensive to do with the upscalers. Budget retro gaming is dying, after moving out it took me 2 years to source a new CRT that was suitable for gaming in a small apartment. People aren’t noticing it but retro gaming on OG hardware is becoming a struggle now. That all said, we are still getting burned. A lot of these newer collections are sub-par and it has gotten to the point where I personally am just ignoring the classics for newer releases. There are what, 6 Cotton games for me to pick from on switch? I’ve been given no good reason to buy anything other than reboot and rock n roll because the classic ports suck bad. Capcom arcade stadium isn’t perfect but it’s good enough to buy at 50% off due to the big game list and first-time home ports. It could have been better still though. I have only used rewind for one thing and that is the RPGs on the mega drive collection. Die to a random encounter in Phantasy Star II or Shining in the Darkness? You better believe I’m taking back those 30-60 seconds. Wouldn’t use it for anything else however, no one wants to take back progress in an action oriented game; it’s better to checkpoint, save state or reset. The retro port market is clearly getting hot and as a result the bar has either been lowered or the priorities have been misunderstood. Thank you as always for putting a spotlight on this problem.

I would preferer to play those turtle games on TV since many of them were designed for console play, but the PC emulation community did em justice some years ago. In defense of the patchy bonus art: many old bit games were designed through sketching of ideas on paper/posted notes: that was the best way to tile a level before committing it to code. Some devs would tile a level out of Legos first. So it's more like a time capsule of lost design logic. Could lag be produced by refresh rates of digital display/monitors? Or maybe display scaling? Baffling...

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Oh input lag wise I actually measure everything on a crt, so no display lag is captured in my tests. Sadly this means that most players will actually suffer from more lag than in my tests, since most displays add at least add a frame of lag. Where the lag comes from in the release is how they handle the emulation, where they are not tuning it for performance and instead probably just want to tune it for easy compatibility, even if that means adding more lag.

Keep posting these reviews, it saves me money from buying crappy ports.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

That s the goal! So that when people go to buy the game, they at least have some warning what the game actually performs like. Rather then me spending a review talking about what pizza I liked as a kid (thin crust, btw)

Thanks for this heads-up about the intolerable amount of input lag. I appreciate that, cause I was about to splurge the cash for the TMNT collection.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Happy to help!!

I bought this on release.. First thing I noticed was the input lag. Don't waste your money people, listen to this review and heed its advice!

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I'm sorry to hear that my dude, I got burned like that on the megaman x collection :-( The lag on that is crazy high too.

We are happy that they came out👍

This is why MiSTer is the future. Play most of these games right now, with no added lag. These collections are pretty much unnecessary.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yep my mister gets a lot of use these days. It's also hella useful tool to lag check against the various ports that come out, because firing up all these different consoles for lag checks is a pain in the ass (since I need special input hook ups for them).

Grade A Crystal lmao got me

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad you appreciated it ha! I thought it might be kind of a shocking shit in tone XD

Lessons in life: 1. Dont eat the yellow snow 2. Dont date your best friends sister 3. Listen to Mark before you spend £30 on laggy retro collections! 🤦‍♂️

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Words to live by ... except what if your best friend's sister is really hot ha?

I passed on this purchase based on this review. Thanks for always telling it like it is and making great content.

Too late I bought the Switch Collection. I like buying collections of past games. I just wish input lag was important to the developers of these game collections. I just wonder what kind of lag the Steam version has? I did notice that at least on Steam people review these collections and will call developers out all the time for the input lag in some of these emulated collections. Especially companies like City Connection and Digital Eclipse.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I can see the steam version having better lag, at least by a frame (maybe 2). But here's the funny thing, if your going to play it on PC, now you are on hardware that can run RetroArch (on steam btw) and play the game at 1 frame of lag. So now even if you have the collection at 4 frames, it s still getting owned by arch on the same hardware

Epic. I went with the crystal. Also, emulation is king

The ONLY reason I bought the cowabunga collection was to play online with my friends secondary was to have these games legally. I could've just kept playing them emulated

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

yes and I can only imagine the online lag + the local 6 frame lag is a nightmare. I would have tested it but I did not want to subject any of my friends to having to spend 40 bucks for such a shoddy release. Also ... have you ever tried parsec? That's a way to do online play for local only games and it runs a lot better than most commercial games netcode (like this collection I am sure). So you could play these games on retroarch + parsec, that's what I would do.

@Mill-on-da-track

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground unfortunately for me I've been trying to get my friends to setup retroarch but none of them want to do it I even offered to set it all up for them. They had a chance to do something special here with this collection and it's not like it would be hard for them to do either. Emulation is still king! Lol

Hey Mark? Gunbird 1 and 2 recently released on consoles. You ever gonna review those ports?

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

oh I sort of did with strikers 2. It's 4 frames of lag, so better than the switch but nothing to write home about. The features are all the same as the switch version (so hardly any)

THANK YOU. I thought this as well when I first started playing. It feels horrible. Edit: AND I didn't see any other coverage of the collection mentioning it, which is one reason why I went ahead and bought it. Screw me, I guess. Edit 2: Why are you Tom Cruise?

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

1. No problem my friend! I'm sad to hear you got screwed though, it's happened to me with one of these collections, like mega man x, so I feel your pain. 2. I am flattered and honored that you have compared me to our holy leader, Tom Cruise, may you walk in peace my brother.

Cheers mate for making the video, I preordered this since I have good memories of the arcade and the rest were just extras. I'm extremely sad to hear about the input lag however so I'll have to keep an eye out on who handles the release. Keep up the good work, truth hurts but hey I'd rather know the truth than be in the dark.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Excellent attitude my friend :-)

I heard from a friend, that this collection is pretty accurate reguarding input lag to the original NES/SNES games, so it's interesting to hear the opposite here.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Hate to bring the bad news but no, the SNES versions are 2 frames and this collection is 6 frames, so that's 3x the amount of input lag.

I completely agree with your opinions on poor emulation/input lag. It is completely unacceptable given how long SNES emulation has essentially been perfect on PC. The idea that one should pay for a premium product that is worse than what you can get for free is crazy. On the other hand, I disagree with the dismissal of collections. Sure, you do not need this and I do not need this, but for people who maybe didn't grow up playing these games the exposure is big. Nintendo and Sega have fans of their 16bit games who weren't born yet when the consoles were released, because they keep their classics in circulation. Side note; the appeal of those Konami arcade beat em ups is that they were basically party games. 4-6 players just hit stuff. Shallow games, and basically a waste of time to play alone, but they supported way more players than other games did.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yeah snes, nes, gb, and genesis emulation is BREAD and Butter, you can get solid quality on a psp practically ha. There's really no excuse for such a long standing form of emulation. As for the collections point, I would agree but since collections are generally ported poorly, i think they do more harm than good. Because a young player without context of the original releases will just think that games are funky and have bad controls or something.

Lol, the beginning of your video was awesome. There will always be people who love the lag. Off point - would you consider sharing with us your all-time favorite non-shmup games?

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad you liked it!! That intro took forever to put together cuz I don't have fancy software, so i manually placed the images frame by frame. Favorite non shmup games, I'll just fire off some that pop into mind: Ninja Gaiden 2 (xbox 360), Resident evil 4, metal gear solid 3, hitman blood money, fight n rage, metal slug, starcraft brood war, golden eye, pokemon red, harvest moon 64, super metroid, that seems like a fun selection :-)

Lmao the Tournament fighters community are pretty happy with this release overall they put a fair amount of care into its implementation. so you’re super off base here. I do agree with the lag being an issue, nostalgia for the brand over the gameplay is the point and I kinda accepted that since I own most of the games. But online for tournament fighters is nice. To say the non turtles in time games is padding isn’t gonna resonate to most Tmnt fans. Still glad you’re being critical of the objective faults here. Glad you mentioned the gameboy colors thing. That one drives me nuts not being there. But yea I can acknowledge different strokes. When they made the Castlevania collection I told myself I hope they do a Tmnt collection and it has tournament fighters on it. Lol.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Why on earth would the tournament fighters community play this hellish port? I m sorry my dude but you all are the ones slipping up here, not me. Why would you compete in a fighting game with 6 frames of built in lag when you could emulate it on fightcade or something and have a much better experience. There no reason to play this port as your standard ha

@andagean

Жыл бұрын

@@TheElectricUnderground Some folks just like to support games they like its that simple. That is how you grow a community, dunking on the most accessible port is rarely good if you want more people to play the game, that's common sense. OFC Fightcade is superior. But the Collection existing isn't a net negative for fans of these game.

@misterkeebler

Жыл бұрын

​@@andagean I'm glad to hear that is how the community sees the collection port...just an opportunity to get more people to play it. I definitely agree with Mark that it isnt the most ideal way to play it, but if it gets the game exposure then that still helps. Console and PC retail releases get people interested, then fightcade can come when the passion is there. And both options can coexist.

@andagean

Жыл бұрын

@@misterkeebler that is more or less how it's being taken its not ideal, but can be good for anyone wanting to pass the games on or make it more accessible. ofc it does suck a retail product ships like this but that's partially the business, I don't think it deserves 10/9 reviews for that reason. Just figured I'd point out WHY some older fans genuinely found stuff to like here.

Great take on this collection. i hate those things ended up this way on this collection release.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

I know right, especially since emulation of these games has been so rock solid for so long, it makes the difference in lag look silly

Thanks so much for trying to highlight just how bad/negligent the review process is for these emulated re-release collections - I was pretty much turned off from them forever by the Mega Man Legacy Collection, not a single review for the game brought up the horrible lag in all of the NES/SNES games in the collection, in fact some went as far as to say there wasn't any "perceptible" lag. When I went online to post about it everyone was just like, "are you sure it's not just your TV?", "have you tried game mode?, etc, it wasn't until some random people on youtube with high speed cameras and LEDs in their controllers that you could get any kind of remotely objective take that people would actually believe...

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

EXACTLY Shig, I got burned super hard by that collection too (i'm a big megaman x fan) and I could not believe just how crazy laggy it was and yet, no warnings from anywhere. And then there's the whole picket line of reviewers where if you go against everyone else (like I did when I was doing reviews for Nintendo Life), your ass is getting the boot ha.

@syltendo

Жыл бұрын

It's a shame, but it just looks like despite of the current retrogaming hype, most people just aren't used to playing on old equipment (original consoles, CRTs) or using high-end, low-lag solutions like OSSCs or FPGA devices. And since they can't compare, they are naturally less sensitive to input lag than us, thus often claiming games just either don't have perceptible input lag, or just no input lag at all.

To be honest the reason I got the cowabunga collection is because of three games TMNT the arcade game(arcade version) TMNT turtles in the arcade version and the hyperstone heist that's pretty much it

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I think a lot of people did the same thing ha. A lot of padding going on here I d say

Thank you for the honest review!

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for tuning in my friend! Hopefully I helped keep some money in your wallet :-)

Where was this intervention before I bought the collection? Now I have to live with it. Besides the Game Boy games I have never played the originals before. And while I have fun with the collection so far I felt smth was off and now I know what. I really wish I had know about the input lag beforehand, then I would probably tried to hunt down PCBs for the two arcade games, b/c besides the nostalgia for the three GB games I like those two the most and was mostly hyped about them.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Oh ballz I was too late :-( that sucks my friend. I d say sell it used but you can t even do that much anymore with digital copies ugh

Also, I have to wonder if the lag is just your experience, because no, I am not noticing lag.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

It s objectively there, it can be measured :-)

Thank you very much for your honest thoughts on the matter! I don't understand or I don't trust all positive reviews for one game, it seems the majority of site is fearing to express something that goes against the mass... That's why by the way I don't trust anymore "those" sites in the video intro...

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

that is exactly right, their loyalties do not lie with the players, they lie with the industry.

I still have to understand what's the deal with these Turtles, especially with people that were well in their teenage years at the time. I mean I was there like everyone else and thought the show was of no interest to me as a teenager who was into sci-fi and things like that, still I see all those 40+ and 50+ guys always hyped for everything TMNT to this day. Is their nostalgia driven by the earlier B&W independent comics? No idea. Anyways you're the first reviewer I see pointing out the obvious sloppiness of the Arcade TMNT games compared to the home counterparts, something that is always omitted when it comes to talking about them. Most might say they prefer the SNES game, but they can't tell why. That's why.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Yes I'm glad to finally set the record straight on the arcade versions of the games. I remember when I first started to emulate them I was all excited (cuz arcade versions are generally the best version) but oh boy what a rude discovery ha. Also I like the turtles IP a lot, but not enough to get caught up in the nostalgia train.

I use to be one of those guys that never really noticed lag and delay in games, I just play them and if they're good enough to play, they're good enough period. But it wasn't until I played Garou MofW on Steam where I was like 'oh damn, this ish is precise as f***!' and it just felt amazing to play, pulling off moves with absolute ease and not complaining a move not coming out like I did with the Dreamcast. Now I'm a lag purist 😂 had this collection on my Steam wishlist, but I don't think it's worth the money after watching your review.

I enjoy your rants :D

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Good times!

I get your problems with this game collection. But within the group of people I know, certainly not "everyone" still has their Super Nintendo or Mega Drive, and certainly not RGB modded, with OSSC or Retrotink :-D Most start buying a Switch, and by far the easiest way to play these games for them, is just buying them for Switch.

Glad you made the review. While I’m not too sensitive to input lag I think this would have been an issue for me. It is annoying that reviewers are ignoring actual issues in games more and more. It’s like toxic positivity or something With that said I’m pretty sure the average Joe isn’t going to notice. They definitely aren’t going to spend extra money on original hardware plus the games.

Late to the party replying here but thank you for the review. Amazingly I'm one of the people most excited about the fighting games (SNES of course, but I also owned the NES one and never played the Genesis one). Unfortunately my Switch is the only console I have access to and now I'm torn. Input lag is frustrating particularly when it's not a technical limitation of some kind but I'm agreeing with you a lot on all the "dev extras." Very tired of 12 JPEGs and some box art scans being used to justify a price tag. I love artwork and it's cool to have but a handful of images without context can be found on a forum. A deep dive into the process of making the game with the technology and atmosphere/expectations of the era could be enjoyable. Design choices. Marketing deals and decisions. Etc. My main reasons for wanting this are portability and a "legal" way to play (when are we changing emulation copyright rules already) but I'm hesitant to reward a lackluster job. Is this worth it if I can get a physical copy on sale or just forget it altogether?

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the awesome comment!!

I honestly don't understand how this keeps happening, because all these consoles like the Switch, PS4 and especially PC have unofficial emulators of older consoles, and they run just fine, how tf do these goddamn collections have input lag then???

I thought I was the only one who thought it was laggy. I see video after video of people gushing over this collection, but I just can’t play it in its current state.

@TheElectricUnderground

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, such a bummer and concerning no one really talks about it

I was going to pick this up at release but never did, too many other games about and I have most of the originals except the arcade ones. I recently came across your channel and really appreciate the in-depth reviews and lag tests, which should be mandatory for any emulation collection. I’ll definitely take this off my wish list now and won’t bother.