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@christdiedandroseagainfory2133

5 жыл бұрын

Jeff durban fails to rightly divide the word of God as commanded in 2nd timothy 2:15 He fails to make a distiction between Gods program for the jews, ie the gospel of the kingdom (Jesus's earthly ministry to the jews under the law before the cross) and the gospel of grace (Jesus's heavenly ministry via Paul to the body of Christ after the cross) Paul is the apostle to the gentiles, the 12 disciples were written to the 12 tribes (jews) Paul said we will be judged according to his gospel which is found in 1st corinthians 15:1-4! Jeff durban preaches a false gospel! the gospel of the kingdom and not Pauls gospel of grace! Paul says if anyone preaches any other gospel than his let him be accursed! Jesus constantly told the 12 to go not into the gentile nations, he came unto his own and they recoeved him not, Jesus said ive come only to the lost house of israel! Jesus's earthly ministry was to the jew under the law not the body of Christ! Paul says we no longer know Christ after the flesh, we know him seated at the right hand of the father, who gave Paul 6 mysteries and most of the new testament! The blood bought church doctrine today is Romans through Philemon! ! Thats it, hevrews to revelation is for the tribulation, all works to jews! Dispensationalism is key to understanding the bible or else it contradicts big time!

@jeremycollins9258

5 жыл бұрын

@@christdiedandroseagainfory2133 Is it necessary to propagate dispensationalism in a reply to the page which posted the video?

@christdiedandroseagainfory2133

5 жыл бұрын

@@jeremycollins9258 2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV) 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

@jeremycollins9258

5 жыл бұрын

@@christdiedandroseagainfory2133 Yes, it does say that. How does that support dispensationalism?

@christdiedandroseagainfory2133

5 жыл бұрын

@@jeremycollins9258 @Jeremy Collins Non dispensationalists Preach Jesus's earthly ministry and apply it to the blood baught church! Thats like bringing law into grace, why do you think Paul rebuked Peter, Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom, (TO JEWS UNDER THE LAW) which was repent be baptiZed and believe Jesus is messiah! COMPARED TO PAULS GOSPEL OF GRACE WHICH IS BELIEVE IN THE DEATH BURIAL AND RESURECTION 1ST COR 15:1-4! 2 DIFFERENT GOSPELS THATS STEALING THE JEWS MAIL Ephesians 3:2-13 King James Version (KJV) 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

The New Testament doesn’t make sense without the Old Testament..

@angieh4534

4 жыл бұрын

Nok Ko or, hear me out, you’re using eisegesis .. 🤔 yeah, that’s it.. and the fact you insult rather than dealing with the preconceived theological issues just confirms the fruit of the Spirit is void in you..

@angieh4534

4 жыл бұрын

Nok Ko no, eisegesis is an actual thing.

@nathanmckenzie904

3 жыл бұрын

@Nok Ko no it really doesn't for a number of reasons but 2 come to the top of mind. According to Christians you need a savior because we are all born sinful because it was passed down from Adam, if there in no OT then there is no Adam. The OT is also where the 10 commandments are located

@volkspanzer8444

3 жыл бұрын

@Nok Ko It gives a fellow follower of Christ the true depth and context as to how we came to the covenant of the Gospel. While I don't ascribe to the idea that a perfect understanding of Scripture in its entirety is needed in salvation (as Christ is the perfecter of our faith), all of the events depicted in the Bible prior to the death, burial, and resurrection of the Son of God happened for a reason. Brother/Sister, don't be so dismissive, and God bless!

@volkspanzer8444

3 жыл бұрын

@Nok Ko If you don't mind me asking, why was it a hindrance to your faith?

Luke 16: 31“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

@samstan4462

7 ай бұрын

A CYNIC would not believe if they saw someone rise from the dead. A SKEPTIC may very well believe.

What Andy is missing is that it’s not our methods that bring people to Christ, but rather the Holy Spirit.

@chalmapatterson544

8 ай бұрын

🎯

@southerngirl1408

7 ай бұрын

Amen

@terrigallagher5998

6 ай бұрын

AMEN!!!!!

@Harbinger290

6 ай бұрын

Andy’s point is, regardless of that obvious fact, we all have a method. And that method always requires us to find out what the person most needs to hear, realizing ever witnessing encounter is different.

@JCIL51

5 ай бұрын

AMEN!! Sin separates us from God.

When someone like Jesus used to continually quote, and teach based on the OT. In my book that makes it important and relevant.

@bible1st

Жыл бұрын

Yea, right? I mean God was literally teaching from this.

@magdalenem4949

Жыл бұрын

exactly, he quoted Deuteronomy (he was quoting himself since they are his words written by Moses) to the devil when he was trying to tempt the Lord.

@aljuric5887

Жыл бұрын

Amen ❤️

@rdaleyj1

Жыл бұрын

Jesus and the apostles after him preached and quoted from the law and the prophets (old testament) That's all they had.

@twarrior17

Жыл бұрын

Yes, Jesus uses the Old Testament Scriptures many times when he is teaching!

Andy's argument seemed confused. Jeff's devotion to the text encouraged me to read the word even more.

@anarchorepublican5954

Жыл бұрын

📖⇠🐼⁉Andy Panderly, a postmodernist parsing Parson person...

@timothydaugaard6457

Жыл бұрын

The mark of a good undershepherd is leading the flock to the green pastures and still waters.

@martinhoy1

Жыл бұрын

People are confused as to what to say when they get out into the world like uni. College etc. I think he’s correct. You can’t easily argues with science. His view is a way we have show our faith to others out there, still holding on to all our faith, but also getting on with science

@MysticalDyl

Жыл бұрын

@@martinhoy1 Check out the channel, InspiringPhilosophy, he’s a Christian but he has a bunch of videos that go very very in depth on how evolution can still prove the Bible is accurate and Jesus as well. He’s very knowledgeable

@jdthnt

Жыл бұрын

Because Jesus told us that a kingdom divided within itself cannot stand. Modern pastors love to appeal to the people, and since that’s wrong, it doesn’t fully make sense.

“The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.”” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:8‬

@LOreveals2U

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

@howardmanley3388

3 жыл бұрын

Moises Michel heaven and earth will pass away , but my words will never pass away..🙏

@dennis9423

3 жыл бұрын

Did you listen to the whole discussion? Your scripture quotation makes no sense. If you had listened to it, you would know that both men believe this. Without context, you cite a good scripture that sides with neither. Listen to the whole discussion with just the scripture you referred to and tell me how it applies to one or the other.

@moisesmichel7009

3 жыл бұрын

dennis perhaps it’s you that didn’t listen to the whole discussion. This scripture quotation makes perfect sense. And applies to the fact that Andy is basically saying that the scripture no longer applies. He states that we should focus on the events instead of scripture. He also states that the only reason scripture is relevant is because Jesus referred to it. Instead of acknowledging that ALL scripture is the inspired Word of God. “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” ‭‭II Timothy‬ ‭3:16-17

@dennis9423

3 жыл бұрын

@@moisesmichel7009 In regards to the O.T. not applying, you would agree, wouldn't you that the shed blood of Christ removes the need for Yom Kippur? I think you would agree that is removes circumcision. I also think the dietary laws are not binding, right? Peter got that message for us. This is what Andy was referring to citing that there are Levitical laws, ceremonial laws, ethnic and national laws that no longer apply. But, moral law, natural law still does apply as is contained in the New Covenant. In regards to the authority/relevance of scripture, Andy is right. One cannot, cannot, cannot interpret the O.T. accurately without the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Try Isaiah 53, for example. Because Jesus is the Son of God, because he proved it with his resurrection, he is the Authority on the veracity of the O.T. If Jesus says it is true, then it is true. Yes, it is in the Tanach, but that does not make it ultimately true. It is ultimately true because Christ's resurrection validates it. Don't confuse Jesus's stamp of approval as being anything lower than tradition, history, or archeology. Jesus says it is true, then it is true.

I came to Christ ironically through the Old Testament more so than hearing the gospel. The Grace of God came over me through reading Isaiah which helped me to see the credibility of the Gospel. Then after exploring some of the OT for a couple of months I reached for the gospel.

@GinaBelt

8 ай бұрын

That's really cool, thanks for sharing!

@daveonezero6258

Күн бұрын

Yeah I sort of had a similar thing. Someone told me before I waws a crhistian tha tthe OT is all about Jesus.

It is always a pleasure to hear Pastor Jeff speak and preach. This man loves and lives the word of God.

@KevinBullard

Жыл бұрын

What's Calvin wrote in Europe is not what the Lord had written in the Middle East. Please don't confuse the zoo. One follows Christ one follows the reformed angle

@bigdeal6852

Жыл бұрын

@@KevinBullard Who follows Christ ?

@KevinBullard

Жыл бұрын

@@bigdeal6852 Great question. Those who do His will...kno his voice.... Follow him. That said, I'm no judge, so good luck!

@bigdeal6852

Жыл бұрын

@@KevinBullard Okay... that's not the answer I was expecting. I was wondering who you were talking about....but hey I can except the answer you gave...since I do agree with it ! 😊

@reneemaricheau4150

Жыл бұрын

& Andy totally bypassing all! all! his scriptural references....seeing Andy on here from on preaching & knowing his dad for soooo long!!! I see Andy now on a different Light real talk it he hit differently NOW!

Ben Shapiro: I find the historical evidence for Jesus's resurrection uninteresting. William Lane Craig: That may very well be true, but I think you'll find that, when you look at the historical data surrounding the resurrection of Jesus Christ as the Jewish Messiah, the facts just don't care about your interests.

@mr3817

2 жыл бұрын

It's "uninteresting" because perhaps William Lane Craig shared a FALSE GOSPEL. You say His punch line was he was attempting to convince a sinful rebellious mind convinced of their own self righteousness, of "Facts". I have MANY Evangelical Christian, even pastor friends who are COMPLETELY UNSAVED because they think that because they are in 100% agreement with WLC that they're saved. You can agree with EVERYTHING William Lane Craig teaches and still go to Hell. Even Demons have "Perfect Theology". The Gospel is that we are sinners in need of a Savior, under the wrath of God. But Jesus Christ, came and shed his Blood so that by believing and never stop believing in his death we might be saved. Unless you are trusting in Jesus' Blood and righteousness you are not saved. Most even Evangelical Christians are trusting in the prayer they prayed or the Right Theology they ascented to for salvation. I am a Hospice Nurse and I can count on ONE HAND out of well over a thousand deaths that I have seen even CHRISTIANS appeal to the Blood of Jesus and His Work on the Cross as their Hope. The gate is small and the way is narrow.

@YourFriendDevin

2 жыл бұрын

@@mr3817 What was the “false Gospel” that WLC preached?

@YourFriendDevin

2 жыл бұрын

@Sam Palm I’m sorry but there are practically zero New Testament scholars who agree with you, secular or Christian. You’d get completely laughed at saying something like that. The evidence for Jesus’ mere existence is overwhelming.

@lindsaybarlow7946

2 жыл бұрын

I love Ben, I hope one day he sees that the facts don’t care about his feelings (i.e. interest in the resurrection) and he worships his Messiah!

@lindsaybarlow7946

2 жыл бұрын

I’m learning more about presuppositional apologetics, and honestly, it appears to be the best way to start!

I would love to see Jeff Durbin go on the Joe Rogan Experience just so Joe can have someone in there that actually knows the gospel and how to express it fluently

@Zaloomination

2 жыл бұрын

And who knows martial arts too!

@taramckinley7585

Жыл бұрын

THAT would be epic! I bet Jeff would go, to- Good idea😊.

@gavinfortin1584

Жыл бұрын

He’s said he would gladly go but Joe don’t want the smoke

@gavinfortin1584

Жыл бұрын

Let me rephrase. Durbin said he would gladly go. I asserted that Joe don’t want the smoke cuz he couldn’t straw man the Bible anymore

@OkieAllDay

Жыл бұрын

Except he teaches Calvinism - which is heretical

I’m not a new Christian but I’ve struggled ALOT in trying to read the Bible. It’s only when I came to my lowest of lows and asked the Lord to come into me and show me all my sins so I could repent of them and prayerfully asked that he give me understanding as I read that the Holy Spirit touched my heart. So that, I’m on my second reading of Genisis in 5 weeks…. It’s a most amazing book!

@AllforOne_OneforAll1689

Жыл бұрын

That's awesome! May I suggest reading the book of Galatians, it will help you see the connection between the old and new testament. God bless!

@andrewunthank3521

Жыл бұрын

In what ways are they heretical?

@ebonymusiclegends1

Жыл бұрын

Amen! Go!!!

@bethprather9241

Жыл бұрын

Amen so true because the Holy Spirit in you or as a believer is why the Bible is alive AND ACTIVE as a 2 edge sword Literal reading vs Holy Spirt helping you understand it is a Huge truth that isn't stated enough

@lissaharre

Жыл бұрын

Genesis is my favorite book. I’ve read it countless times but it’s always new.

I grew up in Alpharetta, Georgia and was a member of North Point, which is Andy Stanley’s main church. I was a Sunday Christian. It felt good and moral to dedicate my Sunday mornings to church but the other 6 1/2 days I lived in the world and nothing that Andy Stanley preached challenged that life. Then when I was 16 my mom tricked me into going to an apologetics camp. I didn’t even know what that world meant. And in 4 days I learned who Christ actually was. My stagnated sanctification started growing once I left his church and I became who God created me to be. Andy Stanley’s methodologies attract people because he doesn’t challenge them to change or grow. So his church is huge but his members don’t know the Bible, they have no rock to stand on when tragedy hits, and they are weak in their faith.

@w4tv286

Жыл бұрын

we have had the exact same experience. Once we left NP and started attending a Church that teaches the FULL council of God's Word, I saw tremendous growth in both my husband and myself.

@lissaharre

Жыл бұрын

@@w4tv286 Praise the Lord that he called you into a church where you could grow in Him. ❤️

@andreacarter38

Жыл бұрын

Very well said!!

@KevinBullard

Жыл бұрын

I love judging others! And their ministry

@lissaharre

Жыл бұрын

@@KevinBullard what did I say that was judgmental? I gave a first hand account of being in his church and the outcome in my life. As a Christian we are called to exhort fellow Christians, especially those in leadership.

When Andy says he has been working hard to make church "attractive" to those who would otherwise not have anything to do with church, my mind immediately goes straight to Emergent Church ideology/theology. Here's the deal: if your church is attracting people who are not hungry for God; who have no concept of their own nakedness and depravity, then you're not employing the full council of scripture. Churches who are being careful to stay solid doctrinally and theologically are the ones that generally will not be attractive to those who are perishing. It's not that we intentionally keep people away from church by being jerks. It's just that people who are truly hungry for the Lord are the only ones who will hear and receive the truth. Jesus said in Matthew 10:34 that he came not to bring peace, but a sword.

@jakebull2571

2 жыл бұрын

Great thoughts here, Scott. Very well said.

@williamnathanael412

2 жыл бұрын

1 John 4:5

@MansterBear

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Seeker sensitivity leads to having a bunch of non believers in your church, which eventually turns your church into a sunday social club. You spend 10 years trying to attract non believers, then on the off chance you actually do preach something against our sinful culture, and they leave. So what actually ends up happening is you know that beforehand, so you just make sure to never preach an offensive sermon. Which makes your church irrelevant.

@VoyageMediaGroup

2 жыл бұрын

Not to mention John 6 - where Jesus make it clear that his goal is not to collect followers. as he sends 5,000 men away by saying something (intentionally) that sounds crazy to them.

@johnmcdonald4553

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent. The Church is to evangelize the lost, but the Church (the local assembly of believers) is for the saved. Period.

I have only just recently come upon Jeff, I have know about Andy for a long time. I am so done with "experiential" Christianity, give me the scriptures!

@hermannpuntigam8582

3 жыл бұрын

Amen!

@ramoth777

3 жыл бұрын

Preach!

@hannijazz3276

3 жыл бұрын

But Jesus told us to experience god ourselves and not blindly following rules. I’m sorry but that’s what scripture says...

@Motivatedmindz314

3 жыл бұрын

My own journey of recovery started with an experience - grace when someone just listened to me and helped me experience the unconditional love of Jesus. This was the onramp I needed to make a deeper commitment to Christ. I'm so grateful that that person didn't try and onramp me with only knowledge, but respected where I was at. Grace is "experiential", and is reflected through the Word and people.

@uncasunga1800

3 жыл бұрын

@Y Ddraig Goch you are clueless clearly calvinists are the only ones who stick to scriptures this heretic wanting to get rid of ot only arminians would ever be ignorant enough to accept anything so ludicrous

Jeff demonstrated some profound patience in this conversation.

@Rick-the-Swift

Жыл бұрын

I agree and will also add that Andy seemed a bit butthurt by the way Jeff was eviscerating his flawed points. I can't remember the exact time frame, but when Andy asked Jeff, hoping to checkmate him, "what is the foundation of your faith?" at which Jeff replied "The word of the living God", Andy's shrug and smirk said it all. His head was cut off at that point, but I do still give him some credit for putting on a brave face and continuing in the fight, no matter how outmatched he was.

@joshuaturney7242

Жыл бұрын

I know, haha. When Andy asked of there would be a Bible without the resurrection I am like first off. Yes, but the rest wouldn't be written yet. Ultimately though, the question is completely irrelevant, because there indeed was a resurrection. That did fulfill old testament prophecy.

@lucasmotasanantoniorealtor7197

Жыл бұрын

I’ve been watching a lot of Apologia recently and his patience in every conversation is phenomenal. I think it’s because He sees people made in the image of God. Been teaching me a lot. 🙏

@Chesterchurch

Жыл бұрын

Yes he sure did. Andy did NOT like letting him talk. Because Jeff was refuting Andy, and he didn't like that. I honestly now look at Andy with some disgust.

@lynnmcintosh

Жыл бұрын

Andy laughing at Jeff's testimony

It amazes me how people miss the fact that every time Jesus and his disciples mentioned "the Scriptures", they referred to what today is called "the Old Testament".

@Learnerofthings

11 ай бұрын

Amen!

@MansterBear

10 ай бұрын

Who misses that? I mean what else would they be referring to? I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone who thinks they meant the OT and NT together

@CarlosPerdomo

10 ай бұрын

@@MansterBear, you'd be surprised!

@MansterBear

10 ай бұрын

@@CarlosPerdomo reminds me of the meme with the little hillbilly kid and says "If the KJV was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me" lol

The moderator is PHENOMENAL. Summarizing each other's point without interjection and putting the focus on the two's responses. Such a great moderator.

@antsly

2 жыл бұрын

You're American no doubt, so not used to this. He's good, but as a Brit, it's not that remarkable to me.

@richardearnshaw2719

2 жыл бұрын

Only two?

@jsharp3165

Жыл бұрын

@@antsly Such a British response.

@STAIND12300

Жыл бұрын

@@antsly lol, it's simply a response to a moderator. Not where they're from. Many moderators, especially in the political realm, have a bias for one of the debators and make that known based on how they respond and ask their questions.

@chalmapatterson544

8 ай бұрын

@antsly. ,🙄

I’m not a Calvinist but I love Jeff Durbin and his work. God bless, Jesus is Lord!!

@romandaigle455

Жыл бұрын

Ditto

@AllforOne_OneforAll1689

Жыл бұрын

@@romandaigle455 2 Timothy 1:9 "who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,"

@latenitehvac868

Жыл бұрын

Calvinist are Christian’s that read their bible

@samuelrosenbalm

Жыл бұрын

​@@latenitehvac868 Correct! And Christians who know their own inability.

@KJBTRUTH

Жыл бұрын

@@latenitehvac868 no they take their philosophy and try to make the scriptures fit their preconceived philosophy. The TULIP of Calvinism infects the gospel of grace preached by Paul who received it from the Lord Jesus Christ. Calvinists tend to use and defend perversions, counterfeit bibles. But they are not God's Holy word. They contain some truth and some lies. They diminish the deity of Jesus Christ and His work. They use corrupt manuscripts. Psalm 12:6‭-‬7 KJB The words of the LORD are pure words: As silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, Thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Jeff Durbin rocked the socks off of Andy. Thanks for standing firmly on the Word of God!

@midnightexpress726

11 ай бұрын

LOL….you wish.

@88BuckMeister

10 ай бұрын

​@@midnightexpress726 I don't think wishing for a fact is a thing...

@midnightexpress726

10 ай бұрын

@@88BuckMeister Nice try buddy. Jeff lost.

@88BuckMeister

10 ай бұрын

@@midnightexpress726 if you say so

@midnightexpress726

10 ай бұрын

@@88BuckMeister I do and I did. ;)

Andy Andy is using circular reasoning the other brother is using the word I love it

Thank you Jeff for defending God's revelation and the importance of not tampering or messing with the Bible.

@Alex_Barbosa

3 жыл бұрын

Too bad it's been tampered with hundreds of times over the past 2000 years

@Immorticus

3 жыл бұрын

@@Alex_Barbosa Hey Alex. The Bible is one of the most historically verified books in existence. I am not sure if I am understanding your comment correctly but there is a lot of information on how accurate the Bible is when compared to ancient discovered documents. Let me know if you want clarification. Peace.

@mattr.1887

Жыл бұрын

Immorticus: Prove it.

@daverich2534

Жыл бұрын

Amen

@justin10292000

Жыл бұрын

​@@mattr.1887 YOU prove it's NOT.

Andy seemed kind of disrespectful towards Jeff in the debate. At many times it is obvious that he stopped paying attention to what Jeff was saying. He keeps accusing Jeff of talking in circles while never really making his own point clearly.

@benniesuewest8483

Жыл бұрын

I didn’t hear the debate. It seemed to me that he moved away from his dad somewhat. I don’t think it’s a good idea to have a public debate. It should be to work out differences with the Bible being the Judge.

@Davehatessocialists

Жыл бұрын

Jeff was amazingly patient. I agree with you, Andy didn't make his points clearly, he behaved like someone who knew he was losing.

@valiantvasquez

Жыл бұрын

Jeff was talking in circles. He goes into the old testaments to question prophets. Andy cuts past the old testament because the teaching of Jesus was new with brilliance rather than the old wisdom. I listen and comment as an independent outsider as a practicing Catholic.

@valiantvasquez

Жыл бұрын

Andy does not discount the old testament, but he is emphasizing the new covenant. Many of the old Jewish laws have been thrown out, because they were made by men, with exception of the 10 commandments which came directly from God. Jesus is the word made flesh. Andy clearly won the debate. Although I understand the fulfillment of the old testament, the beauty of Pslams and stories various stories, prophecies, and advice on self regulation of behavior, Andy has a point that the focused attention on the New Covenant can help stream line and appeal to those not wanting to focus so deep into the past. Understanding the new is a great place to start preaching to appeal to the new. Review of the old books can be addressed down the line in a personal and private or specialized study. You do not need to appreciate the prequels in order to enjoy and deeply understand the New Testament for the most part. Jeff kept backtracking into the old in a very boring way which only made Andy's point.

@romandaigle455

Жыл бұрын

@@valiantvasquezI was Catholic for over 40 years. I had to leave after reading and studying scripture as 95% of the RCC is NOT Biblical.

Thank you Jeff. Great job here defending the truth and maintaining a graciousness in the process.

@sharonmitchell8887

11 ай бұрын

Well said, Paul King.

Love how Jeff is answering with Scripture.. Andy can not deny this.

@JohnnyBeeDawg

Жыл бұрын

@@Udontknome112 Andy has to deny it to preserve his illogical argument. But he cannot

@JohnnyBeeDawg

Жыл бұрын

​@@JLane-pj4lr Thanks for sharing all of those. The NRSV, of course, is a fake bible, put together by a committee of unsaved "world religion" people from the national council of churches using corrupt manuscripts which were rejected by early christians when they were produced.. The NRSV changes the words of God and changes God's doctrines from the real bible. These changes destroy the amazing cross-references throughout the entire Bible, (Old and New Testaments) that the modern translators dont want you to see or understand. They want you to scoff...just like them. You wont fully understand Paul's gospel of Grace for our church age, unless you understand the Old Testament bible, and its amazing scriptural meanings and amazing cross-references. Paul and Jesus certainly constantly taught from the OT scriptures,, and thought they were of utmost importance. ALL of it is "written" by Jesus Christ in the first place, and is for our edification. Andy Stanley doesnt want you to STUDY the Bible, as 2 Timothy 2:15 commands the believer. Why would that be? The modern bibles all remove this direct command from their versions. Who else doesn't want you to study God's words? Who wants to see you DAMNED? To go thru the verses you provided....Read about Leviathan in the correct translation of Job in the AV1611, and see the match to Rev 20:10, where he will end up in a lake of fire. Job says Leviathan's hope is in vain. (Nothing about gods overwhelmed!) It means YOUR hope in him in in vain, too. Leviathan would rather see you DAMNED than dead or alive (Ezek 32:2, 31-32) The smoking nostrils...people who worship him (1 Cor 10:20) like to handle a "peace pipe". It was called a "peace pipe" because that is how Leviathan will bring in his kingdom (Dan 8:24-25, 11:21). "Peace". Notice in Job 41:25 you quoted, the reference to Roman Catholic flagellation & doing penance to pay for one's sins (1 Kings 18:28). All the new "unholy scriptures" cover up for the RCC. Andy Stanley and the modern translators dont want you studying any of this, either. "Behemoth" you referenced is a plural word, meaning "animals". It is a prophetic reference to the Son of Perdition, and likened to 3 animals in Rev 13:2. Also an "ox" connected to Satan who as a cherub (Ezek 28:14) has an ox's "split foot" (Ezek 1:7). Nebuchadnezzar (another type of antichrist) ate grass like an ox in Daniel 4:33. But you think it is just a fable. Zeus was a later invention as a counterfeit of God. The "gods" in Psalms 81 you reference arent just statues! There are plenty of them around (1 Cor 8:5), and God has told 'em what he is gonna do with them (Jer 10:11). There is a whole lesson on the gods of Psalms 81 you mentioned going back to Gen 6:2. They were "children of the Most High"...spirits directly created by God (Hebrews 1:7) but not "begotten" as Christ was (Hebrews 1:5). They did not die as gods, but drown like men (Gen 6:13). Their spirits are chained in hell right now (2 Peter 2:4) and will come up in the White Throne judgement (Jude 6) where the new sons of God (John 1:12) will judge them (1 Cor 6:3). The Bible never says there were onocentaur donkey-people. The verse from Isiah you reference refers to a monkey or baboon, and is talking about a desolate place.. Centuries later a half-man, half goat creature was invented in Greek and Babylonian mythology. The Bible never speaks about the planet Earth being flat. Jesus points out in Luke 17: 30-31,34 that on the Day of the Lord it will be daytime on one part of the planet, and night on another part at the same time. Isiah refers to a circle, not a flat earth. Nothing about a "cast metal mirror" in the sky. The sky is like glass. There were genetically corrupt Nephilim on the earth which God destroyed with the flood. We should respect what is literal in the Bible, and also what is poetry and idiom and typology. There is no reason to scoff at the Bible or say it is archaic. The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. (Psalms 12:6-8). The holy spirit helps the reader understand the deeper things of the Bible. God calls us to have Faith...that is...to take him at his word. Andy Stanley's problem is he wont believe all the words of God, so he wants to the throw out the doctrines he doesnt like. The Bible warns us of people like him. It's incredible that a pastor guides his church away from the words of God. You will never grow spiritually with a pastor like that. One's faith will never develop in fullness, as one turns away from the truth of the Bible, and learns false doctrine from corrupt translations and false teachings that omit, alter and destroy. The Bible warns us of all kinds of heresies that will be taught to the body of believers at the end of the church age...the worst of which is corrupting the words of God, and not believing him. Jesus said be not deceived. Jesus lived by every word from the mouth of God. We please the Lord by taking him at his word, and keeping his commandments from the Bible. Pray for faith. "Jesus said unto him if thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe. Help thou mine unbelief". --Mark 9:23-24.

@matthewalston1226

8 ай бұрын

​@@JohnnyBeeDawgexactly! Andy is a heretic and preaches another gospel. He's unregenerated.

@clinttullous5233

8 ай бұрын

How about we unhitch you from Christianity! That would make more sense! Andy Stanley)

@davidmoore7680

7 ай бұрын

I think maybe Andy is unhitching from Christianity but a lot of people will follow him which is the sad part. @@clinttullous5233

My bottom line is which one of these men would I want to witness to my lost family. Jeff Durbin has my vote.

@RecoveryHighlightswithDr-wx5yy

3 жыл бұрын

Don’t care who witness to my friend but after my friend is saved Jeff is the one

@nathanhunt6208

3 жыл бұрын

idk both of them are pretty sketchy

@MrWishihadagibson

3 жыл бұрын

I’d rather it be Justin Brierley

@duncescotus2342

3 жыл бұрын

Very funny, Yeah, Jeff would get the job done. But Andy is coming from the place of the preacher's kid. If your family were a bunch of 10th generation pew-sitting Protestants, all dripping with baptism and godliness, you might want Andy to set them straight. If you do have lost family, I pray for them now, that the fire of repentance would light in their hearts, and that all of them, from the oldest to the youngest would not leave this earth without knowing the intimate love of Christ Jesus. And I pray that the infilling of the Holy Spirit would come upon them with all ability and understanding in the Word of God. In accordance with his word, in this case, Acts 16:31: "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, you AND your house."

@kennethcadwell2124

2 жыл бұрын

Durbin is a false Calvinist that has no support in scripture, and as Stanley said we under the New Covenant are not required to keep the Old Covenant law of Moses......

Great conversation between Andy and Jeff. Jeff sealed it for me with Mentioning apostle Paul’s own conversion, Paul went and reasoned from the scriptures not from evidence. The scriptures are our foundation for the truth, Gods word.

@duustincrawford2945

5 жыл бұрын

Um...no sorry, but if you want to actually try and find out what's true, you can't simply use the bible to prove the bible correct. That's called circular reasoning. Of course you have the right to believe what ever you want, without evidence, but please dont act like your actually doing anything rooted in logic ok....thanks -your friendly internet blasphemer.

@eagleclaw1179

5 жыл бұрын

duustin crawford ummm doesn’t Paul say 1 Corinthians 15 that Christ rose “according to the Scriptures” circular reasoning seems to be what he did... the problem is as Christians we do not “argue” as the world does, Gods Word is our authority

@llrmiller

5 жыл бұрын

Preston Smith Paul was a Pharisee. The OT WAS evidence for him. But if you were a Celt in the 4th Century then the OT is irrelevant until you understand the resurrection of Christ. Plus Jeff Durbin’s argument is self defeating given his Calvinist presuppositions.

@Matthew24.4

5 жыл бұрын

duustin crawford - by any respected and acknowledged metric of ancient historical research there is more credible evidence for the resurrection than practically any other ancient historical event. . Watch - “The Resurrection Argument that Changed a Generation of Scholars” by Gary Hamberas

@duustincrawford2945

5 жыл бұрын

@@eagleclaw1179 well the ONLY way we have learned anything about the world, is through empirical evidence....not the bible is true because the bible says its true. Like I said to the OP, you can believe what every you want, but if it's not based on evidence, it doesn't mean anything.

Andy Stanley is teaching people to be weak in faith and leading them the wrong way and it’s very sad! His father was a great teacher of the living word and great man of faith, thank you pastor Jeff for confronting this and teaching us how to correctly talk with non believers and men and woman who are living in sin and desire

@Rakscha-Sun

6 ай бұрын

Andy is teaching people to have a heart.

@ashleywallace3651

23 күн бұрын

​@Rakscha-Sun, what does God say about our hearts?

Spoiler alert- Andy doesn't believe the New Testament either 😂

@Chesterchurch

Жыл бұрын

He sure seems to think that he can change the will of God. He seems to believe in pragmatism over the sovereignty of God almighty

@zach.shepard

4 ай бұрын

So true! 😂

@Jeff-ci7wq

17 күн бұрын

Lol 😂 that’s good stuff.

That's like saying let's unhitch the Father from the Son.

@suzannelesser5468

Жыл бұрын

That is coming, give Andy enough time. It will be couched more cleverly, but something along the lines of, “God doesn’t really demand we believe in Jesus; isn’t that a bit bigoted of us to say He does?”

@dashulamite

Жыл бұрын

The law flows from the heart and character of God Almighty: Father, Son & Holy Spirit. If you do it, He will bless you and you will stay on the straight and narrow path (Jeremiah 6:16-17). If you don't do it, the natural consequence is curses. Jesus taught the law and rebuked the Pharisees for making the law void by their traditions of men. Jesus would not be a hypocrite and make void the law. The Pharisees were actually on the lookout for any time that He might teach contrary to the law because they knew that they were LEGALLY obligated to try Him and stone Him to death (according to God's law). To the law and to the testimony, if they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them (Isaiah 8:20). How many Christians are going to follow the anti-christ because they themselves are lawless? All the NT writers and the early church were torah keepers and it would have stayed that way if it wasn't for the Gentile church leaders that were anti-jewish and sought to scrub any whiff of the torah from their doctrine. "He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, TO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION. Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the ERROR OF THE LAWLESS and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen (2 Peter 3:16-18). Take care!

@renealeman4566

Жыл бұрын

That's an awesome summary point; thank you!

@sofiadaly2992

Жыл бұрын

Hallelujah 🤗😇

So I guess we’re just gonna dump Isiah 53. Unbelievable.

@kddd8234

3 жыл бұрын

My daughter came to belief because of that very scripture. 🙏 I thank God for that.

@DiscipleDog

3 жыл бұрын

Amen

@patriciahooper9445

3 жыл бұрын

no never , no word of God should be done away with. Judgment on ones who do this is the judgment of Hell.

What an awesome way to confront what even the novice Christian would call a heretical take on Scripture. Jeff does what all Christians should do, stick to the inerrancy of Scripture and use it to point out where a supposed biblical teacher is incorrect, and NOT let their attempts at flattery lessen your forcefulness in pointing out their error and Scriptural contradictions. Jeff did a fantastic job of not letting Stanley's constant praises or convoluted answers sidetrack him. He stayed focused. Praise God!!!! This was a pleasure to watch.

@WorldravenNevar

Жыл бұрын

What are you talking about? You're not smart enough to understand Stanley's point. Keep trying.

@JohnnyBeeDawg

Жыл бұрын

@@WorldravenNevar Andy’s point is illogical. You don’t have to be very smart to see that.

@woofmeow4273

Жыл бұрын

Wrong. John 8:44. YHWH is Satan. Listen to Christ first, always. YHWH never mentions his Son and Jesus NEVER calls His Father Yahweh. The OT is partly demonic (slavery, child murder, genocide etc) and partly divinely inspired. Read Ptolemy's letter to Flora for a decent summary. MOSES is killed by god, does not deliver his people and in the last verse of the Torah said to have spread TERROR. (KJV) Christ is the standard, not prophets or elders or priests, CHRIST alone. He says YHWH is the Devil, and He is always right. The New covenant, thank God, is what we live under.

@JohnnyBeeDawg

Жыл бұрын

@@woofmeow4273 Good lord

@Ben-wh4ci

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnnyBeeDawg what? please try and recount Andy’s argument for me. this isn’t heresy this is a slight difference in methodology. i feel like you didn’t listen?

Justin, you did a fantastic job as moderator. I loved how you fairly and skillfully handled the exchanges. Thank you and kudos to you!

Thank you Jeff for your patience and humility as you corrected Andy. Well done. You are a great teacher of the Word.

@bodylinc

2 жыл бұрын

Pastor Waxer is so great at sharing Gods word and message, that assures me that God is listening and He loves His children.

@kimberlyo2037

2 жыл бұрын

@@bodylinc Waxer? do you mean Durbin or Stanley?

"The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed and the Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed. - Chuck Missler

@devinreed5725

3 жыл бұрын

Nope it's a book of idolatry glued on to a book of creation. Much like the mormons did to your book. A book in hebrew let's just slap some greek mythology on the back of this and call it of God. That's what we like to call blasphemy.

@tyc4587

3 жыл бұрын

@@devinreed5725 sorry my friend, no.

@devinreed5725

3 жыл бұрын

@@tyc4587 um...yes? Prove to me that the old and the new link. Any prophecy you think is about jesus in the old testament, most certainly is not. Read the old testament then the new and see how badly they contradict each other. The whole old testament is about following the true creator the right way. Then this bogus second part is about the opposite. Understand the Jewish comprehension of these scriptures and parables, and you will understand the worship of man is idolatry. It's a way to impose greek sun god worship on a people who were praising and following the essence, the one true god without form or face. Sorry but you are wrong and misinformed. You can't just steal some dudes quote and think it true because bits in quotations.

@devinreed5725

3 жыл бұрын

@@tyc4587 Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall not add to it or take from it. “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him Deuteronomy 12:33

@richardkloosman733

3 жыл бұрын

@Alec Karry it was actually a quotation from saint Augustine of Hippo. :-) I did not know this myself and only found out about two years ago...

Not sure if I understand Andy Stanley's refutation of Jeff Durbin's position. His comes off as impotent in his exposition of our Faith. Speaking personally, it wasn't until I finally saw Jesus consistently reflected in the OT, and the holy war persisting thru the OT, kicked off with the enmity between the two seeds, that the power of the Resurrection exerted its full weight on my heart. Thank you, Pastor Jeff!

It is so refreshing to hear people be able to have a discussion/debate with such respect and civility. Very rare these days.

Redefining Christianity without the old testament its like - grabbing the fruit by cutting the tree.

@dennis9423

3 жыл бұрын

Did you even listen to the whole discussion to know what it is about? It is not about separating the O.T. from the N.T. Listen to it to see what "unhitching" is referring to.

@samanthacanales3183

3 жыл бұрын

I was reacting to the provocative title of the video, I'm a fan of UN-believable I know that Andy Stanley is sober and knowledgeable of the bible. but there ll be some people that will read the tile and react to it . So I did.

@dennis9423

3 жыл бұрын

@@samanthacanales3183 Got it! Thanks.

@uncasunga1800

3 жыл бұрын

@@dennis9423 stanleys both are heretics andy is not even a christian except in pretense only without OT no one can believe the ACTUAL God of the bible

@dennis9423

3 жыл бұрын

@@uncasunga1800 So, the woman at the well could not be saved either. She did not have the complete Old Testament. You do not have a clear understanding of the Bible, sir.

I’m grateful that I was raised in a family of believers; I’ve always known what I believe today, but there was most certainly a time when I questioned that belief. It was my study of the scriptures that the apostles and followers of Jesus read, our Old Testament, that answered the questions I had. The history of those scriptures and the realization of who wrote them, when and why they were recorded, that convinced me that Jesus is indeed the promised Messiah, and without those scriptures, the story of the resurrection would not hold up. So I agree with Jeff, the foundation of my belief is founded in the Old Testament and held up in the New. You cannot prove anything to anyone, (including yourself), with out both, but it begins in the Old.

@darkeen42

2 жыл бұрын

What are you talking about who wrote that they were written anonymously attributed to four authors centuries later. You haven't studied anything

@ArmyScoutMom

Жыл бұрын

Tina Wantland Amen! A little over a year ago I rededicated myself to the Lord (after being lured away by new age/progressive Christianity) I then felt called to host a ladies Bible study and prayer group. I wasn't sure whether to start in the old or new testament. Since we were also breaking into prayer groups after the study I thought let's start our study with How to Pray, so we studied the Lord's Prayer. Then the Lord made it very clear to me, there is NO New testament without the Old testament. My eyes were opened and the Old Testament turned from an antiquated writing that spoke of an angry GOD to divinely inspired Scripture revealing the unchanging Holy GOD almighty who loves us so much to give his only begotten Son. I now can say I truly love the old testament. Though starting with Jesus's resurrection can be the ramp as Andy says, we have to show not only the validity but the necessity of studying our beautiful Old testament. I think even calling it Old testament denigrates it to something of the past and antiquated. The fact is it's the Hebrew BIBLE (albeit laid out differently)

@brucedavenport285

Жыл бұрын

Andy was raised by a bible believing pastor and one who loves God!!

@sharonmitchell8887

11 ай бұрын

@@brucedavenport285 Yes, Dr. Charles Stanley loved God, was an outstanding, solid Bible teacher of the old and new testaments. He handled the Bible with great reverence and respect as God's Word. We need more church leaders and Bible teachers like Dr. Charles Stanley and Jeff Durbin.

I think Andy has not been taking his role seriously to understand the scriptures rightly so he can teach rightly. If he has been taking it seriously, he would not be confused by Jeff's points.

I’m watching this 3 years later, after a clip of Andy Stanley has recently gone viral of him taking a similar stance, “the Bible says” shouldn’t be in our reasoning for faith. Quite concerning to hear this is his long term beliefs towards the word of the Lord. I love pastor Jeff’s tactful and biblical response through this video.

Just wanted to point out that I have never seen a comment section so packed with thinking Christians. I am happy!

@EtherealOrbAbastractArt

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. Very encouraging!

@dennis9423

3 жыл бұрын

@@EtherealOrbAbastractArt And, non-thinking Xians, as well.

@EtherealOrbAbastractArt

3 жыл бұрын

@@dennis9423 David Wood, Ravi Zacharias, Abdu Murray, Lee Strobel. If you haven't met a thinking Christian, you should start with one of the people I've listed. :)

@dennis9423

3 жыл бұрын

​@@EtherealOrbAbastractArt You misunderstood my comment. Many of the comments on this discussion show a lack of theological thinking. Many are commenting on the title of the discussion without listening to it. Indeed, both Durbin and Stanley are first class thinkers having a discussion regarding evangelism, not theology. Most listeners commenting don''t even know that. I was referring to them, not the intellectual giants like Ravi, Tim Keller, R.C. Sproul, John Lennox, et. al. I know good XIan theological thinkers and I know the ones who aren't.

@dennis9423

3 жыл бұрын

And, I have never seen a comment section so packed with non-thinking Xians as well.

Jeff's very last statement about ephesians 2 was absolute beast mode. Praise God, a beautiful defense for the totality and supremacy of scripture.

@danbailey2964

Жыл бұрын

Its a real Dungeons and Dragons clash of theistic b.s.

1:08:25 is a horrifying moment to be honest. Andy shrugging his shoulders at the idea that God's Word is the ultimate authority. Andy is a prime example of today's progressive movement not having the courage to allow God's word to stand on it's own. He strips God's Word of it's authority and I think he should be afraid as a teacher. There will be eternal consequences for doing that.

@lencastro07

10 ай бұрын

antichrist

@Natural-Causes

10 ай бұрын

Well said

@elaineeike5363

8 ай бұрын

I agree. Andy does the same thing @ minute 43:31 when he shrugs and smirks when Jeff states that the Living Word of God was the foundation of his Faith. It was stomach curdling.

@baileycash6196

8 ай бұрын

I took his shrug as an acceptance / concession of Jeff’s argument, not a dismissal.

@gtf5392

8 ай бұрын

This is a good reminder for Christians to look for a church where the pastor has a high view of scriptures and low view of themselves (and not the other way around).

Go Jeff! So articulate. God’s Word will not come back void. We don’t have to be clever and re package the Gospel and all of Scripture to make it stick or seem more appealing…it’s the breath of God for goodness sake!

ALL scripture is God breathed. If you are in love with God, you will be in love with everything he has breathed.

@JesusismyGOD

3 жыл бұрын

Wise soul

@carlamangiacotti7063

3 жыл бұрын

I really wish someone would mention “sin” that is why we need a savior ! Genesis is a must to preach Jesus the whole Bible must be preached.. Not to mention the purpose God created man I believe your both complicating things..so frustrating

@carlamangiacotti7063

3 жыл бұрын

The issue is why we need Jesus

@SolidRock008

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, I especially love Exodus 21: 20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are NOT to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." 😍😍😍 WOW so beautiful how god is cool with me owning and beating another person nearly to death

@zachtrisler9464

3 жыл бұрын

Do I have to love the god breathed passages where god does genocide?

Very impressed that Durbin defended God's Law from a New Testament perspective!

@googlewantstoknowyourlocat1115

5 жыл бұрын

What is "God's Law"? The Mosaic Law was for Israel only. Jesus' spiritual death rendered it inoperative. The Law of Christ is operative now (Gal 6:2; Heb 7:12). I don't know if one of those is what you mean.

@uncasunga1800

3 жыл бұрын

@@googlewantstoknowyourlocat1115 Christ fulfilled the Law and took the punishment Yet he said anyone who fails to keep it will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven

@uncasunga1800

3 жыл бұрын

@@anthony.waggoner none of you internet hipster mullennial dufus messiahs has a clue what the bible says yet are so desperate to twist obscure passages to claim crazy things

@Chirhopher

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, YESHUA, and HIS Apostles all did, and HE Commands Us to. All Glory to YHWH GOD.

Next up: Andy Stanley defends his book 'Freedom From Walking: How Cutting Off Your Legs Improves Your Life'

@davescott8880

Жыл бұрын

LOL I for real laughed at this thanks for that.

@helen9412

Жыл бұрын

😂😂

@johnnycapo

Жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣

@derekblaak8192

Жыл бұрын

Lol and if you listen to him it will seem to make sense😂

@danbailey2964

Жыл бұрын

If your all powerful god reattached them, that would be convincing. So far fixing amputees aren't in your gods wheelhouse. Wonder why....

I gotta say: This is why it's always more beneficial to be a student of The Word as opposed to a student of The World. I noticed that Jeff overwhelming used scripture to validate each one of his points and Andy just kinda used scripture haphazardly to make a point (even when it didn't make sense). It seems to me that Andy was more concerned with people liking Jesus + Andy and Jeff was more concerned with people liking Jesus.

@thetruthseekerswithrandymc5850

Жыл бұрын

Great point

I’m with Jeff. We Need Both Old and New Testaments.

@inTruthbyGrace

3 жыл бұрын

he NEVER even suggested we do not need the Old or New Testament... did you even bother watching this? @31:05 @50:45

@inTruthbyGrace

3 жыл бұрын

@Dewy Wannamaker how to treat people under your employ (the master/servant relationship) is clearly laid out in the new testament too! You ought to read the Bible and then go to Africa, preach the GREAT news to the more than 47 countries and 9.2 million who are currently NOT following those laws!

@inTruthbyGrace

3 жыл бұрын

@Dewy Wannamaker Slaves were akin to contracted employees in the bible and that's why I said you should read it. The relationship between servant and master was ALWAYS governed by "do to others as you would have done to yourself" and it was a 7y contract renewable every 7 years whereby the servant was able to leave and the master was responsible for housing clothing and feeding their servants... totally NOT what is taught about "slavery" in the indoctrination camps we call public school and the fact that you children do not read the bible but run around comment sections of youtube videos parroting your idiotic indoctrination INSTEAD of really taking issue with VERY REAL human trafficking,...the brutal mistreatment of African slaves at this very moment in time, just shows you guys can't think, you are ill-informed and deceived. Modern slavery is a travesty, it is human trafficking and it is legal in well over 47 countries on the continent of Africa... so again, I suggest you read the Bible for yourself and IF human trafficking (aka modern slavery) is really troubling to you... learn what you are talking about and instruct others as I have instructed you.

@inTruthbyGrace

3 жыл бұрын

@Dewy Wannamaker are you not even a little embarrassed of the low IQ you reveal to be criticizing a book you have *_CLEARLY never read?_*

@inTruthbyGrace

3 жыл бұрын

@Dewy Wannamaker you make an excellent modern day, indoctrinated slave... you bought your brainwashing so fully you do not even have the intellectual curiosity or integrity to question if you have misled... of course to those who know what the Bible says, you come across as truly pathetic.

The fact this is actually a discussion shows how far we have strayed from the truth. The Gospel of Jesus Christ begins with Genesis 1:1. Rather than unhitching the Old Testament from the new, which is as non biblical as ignorant as anything I've heard in a long time, why don't you study and learn those scriptures and their true meaning. It is ALL ABOUT CHRIST. Glad Pastor Durbin defends the truth.

@davidpallmann8046

5 жыл бұрын

*eye roll* The fact that this comment is here shows how how far Christians have strayed from being educated on the relevant data regarding their faith.

@BradGirard

5 жыл бұрын

It is fully understandable why you should unhitch yourself from the Old Testament. The approved, sometimes commanded murder, genocide, slavery, infanticide, animal abuse, homophobic and misogynistic messages of rape and women as objects are all deplorable in a developed society. Christians don't want to think of the bad or evil or indefensible parts of the Bible, just the nice ones. Let alone the tremendous amount of contradictions that lie in what is supposed to be the inspired and inerrant 'Word of God'. Add that to the complete contradictions to discoveries of science, of which there are many, not just the stories of creation in Genesis 1, which contradicts the story given in Genesis 2 with the theory of evolution. Your world religion would be easier to defend and accept without many parts of the Old Testament. I spent most of my life as a Christian, a foreign missionary and Bible College student preparing to work in the ministry as a pastor. I spent much time studying Greek and the Pentateuch and vigorously defended Christianity to many other religious believers as well as atheists. My path out of theism and to atheism began with my commitment to better understand and defend my belief as a Christian. As I started reading the Bible cover to cover again, I began to question the legitimacy of the entire document in the first few books. Thank goodness for the internet, as now anyone can really do their research. The path to atheism for most believers begins with a serious study of their beliefs and their Holy book. If the Bible is real, it should be infallible, without error, and it is not. If God is real, it should be obvious. But it is not. It is indoctrinated in us. We generally believe the beliefs of our parents, or at least the predominant beliefs of our society. If you are born in North America you will most likely be Christian, if you are in Utah though, you are most likely Mormon, If you were born in Saudi Arabia - Muslim, Philippines - Catholic, Thailand - Buddhist, South India - Hindu, Punjab - Sikh and so on and so on. With all the study that I did of apologetics though, the one truth that I held when any kind of doubt started in my mind was always answered with one statement, "I know in my heart that my belief in God and Christianity is true", "I have spoken to God and he speaks to me, I have seen prayers answered, I have a personal relationship with Jesus." But, as I travel the world I find that that is the deepest foundation of everyone's religious faith and belief in their god or gods. They also know in their hearts that their god is the one true god, they speak with their god and their god speaks with them, their prayers are answered. Some of them sacrifice their lives for their belief. The one thing we all know for sure, they can't all be right, but they can all be wrong. Listening to Christians' debate should be enough to raise doubt as to how something that is apparently this important to mankind can be so confusing considering that God could easily have made it clear. Why so many denominations with various beliefs all coming from their understanding of what God said. Listening to Christians debate other religions now, to me, is like listening to two kids arguing about who is more real, Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. If Christianity is the one and only true path to God, it will stand up to the scrutiny of revelation. Do your own deep research, read the Bible cover to cover, including Leviticus and Deuteronomy and really ask yourself if it makes sense, all the killing and rape and torture and slavery and non-science. Odds are if you start asking the questions, your path will lead you exactly where mine has lead me, yet not without significant cost to some relationships, I must warn.

@rwd0418

5 жыл бұрын

@@BradGirard Okay Brad. What is the purpose of life without a Logos? Should we just seek pleasure and die in our sin? Sam Harris tries to state the same thing you do but the end result is eternal darkness and no basis for a moral law. So we evolved in to a higher being that has no purpose? There are many scriptures that directly speak to unbelief as the unpardonable sin. Salvation is possible until your dying breath. As blaspheme of the Holy Spirit is the only unpardonable sin, it is something that you can always repent of to your dying breath. I pray that you will respond to the still small voice of reason that doesn't buy the greatest lie of the enemy. That God does not exist.

@rwd0418

5 жыл бұрын

@@BradGirard I also find it kind of ironic that no one seemed to have responded to your post. I love you man, I have a son who doesn't believe right now. His name is Brad. Now I can pray for two people, with tears in my eyes.

@BradGirard

5 жыл бұрын

Rick DeLorme hey Rick. I hear what you are saying and would have said the same thing 8 or 10 years ago. Because it is tough to imagine that maybe the purpose of life is nothing. Like the purpose of every other living creature on earth. Living is the purpose of life maybe. That’s it. Why does there have to be a purpose. Maybe it’s whatever you make it. And since I don’t believe in sin i don’t believe you die in your sin. I guess you didn’t read my statement fully. I understand where you are coming from. I was there. But I can’t get my morals from the Bible when it is full of such horrible moral rules. The Bible is the very last place we should be getting our moral code from. Read it fully. Not just the psalms and sermon on the mount. I spent 2 weeks traveling to 9 concentration camps to do a photo expose a few years ago. And after 2 days of walking the grounds of aushwitz burkinau I can’t imagine that all these innocent people went to the gas chambers and are now in hell as they didn’t believe Jesus was Christ. But the people who sent them to their deaths are in heaven if they asked Jesus to forgive them the moment before they died. That is one screwed up moral code. No need to respond because your response would have been the same as my response would have been 10 years ago. The greatest thing about becoming an atheist for me is that I have lost my fear of death and gained a love for this one life I have. I am the same moral person I was before. Just free from the burden of following some archaic set of imaginary rules. Read the Bible from the beginning and I am sure you will get free too. Because if it doesn’t make sense then it doesn’t make sense. Thanks for your good thoughts. I know you are a good person and worry about the eternity your son faces. My mother does the same for me. But don’t worry there is no hell, they made that up in the New Testament. Cheers. Ps. I don’t care no one responded. I wasn’t looking for a response. Just maybe to help people who are really struggling with what I struggled with for years to know it is ok to move down this path of freedom from the indoctrination and fear. Imagine the only unforgivable sin is the sin of not believing in a god who apparently made fossils and dinosaurs and all this evidence against the Bible so he could see if we would believe anyways. Naw.

Pastor Jeff! Thanks for speaking so clearly and Biblically on this topic...

I attended North Point for most of my life up to this point. I always got the distinct impression something was missing. Looking back it seems like it does an incredible job of introducing Christ, but doesn’t encourage growing closer to him. It really isn’t a church for pastoring Christians, it’s a place where someone can be introduced to ask the right questions. It’s like a door into Christianity, but it definitely isn’t a room people should stay in for too long. It’s just not the whole story.

@rhymeister

Жыл бұрын

Why do you think most people stay?

@willthesinnohstan0549

11 ай бұрын

That’s the thing: they’re not encouraged to leave once they make those basic connections of faith (for obvious reasons), which just reveals that North Point’s model is unstable IMO. By making itself a “church for the unchurched”, it leaves disciples who look to have their faith enriched without anywhere to go really. I understand wanting it to be a starting point to introduce the basics, but that comes as a result of the church losing influence in the culture. As such, pastors like Andy focus more on attracting people by “flipping the script” and adapting modern methods and compromising much of the message (ie. discrediting the Old Testament, omitting God’s wrath when talking about Salvation, etc). By doing that we run the risk of losing ALL of the message because we’re conforming to the world’s ideals, even if just by a little bit at a time.

@rickybefree

7 ай бұрын

@@willthesinnohstan0549 @NoahWetz I agree with you that you should definitely pursue Christ more and speaking from experience you need to get one or multiple brothers in Christ that you know and trust to get all up in your business and hold you accountable for your sin. As men we need this discipleship and to strong godly relationships & to build ourselves as confident and firm leaders. Praying for you, Noah that you find a church home if not already, as I am 7 months behind lol & that God blasts you with His spirit and you grow into what He needs to use to bring more souls to Him. As for Andy & North Point, at that point they're just teaching "another gospel" like Apos. Paul talked about. You need to find fellowship somewhere else quick. God's wrath ain't no joke, nobody without Jesus blood covering them will escape it, but they need to understand that's a reason why we need Jesus. I'm afraid Andy Stanley is only in it for the money.

@lynnejimenez1260

5 ай бұрын

@@rhymeister Good question....I guess I did learn some things...I learned forgiveness...the whole thing is very professionally done...tons of entertainment...made me laugh at time...NOT BORING...huge reason, and I wanted it for my son who was in the children's programs

Even Jesus when tempted by Satan in the desert He always responds to Satan by saying “it’s is written”. So even Jesus Christ starts by referring to the Word of God and not his own opinion. Furthermore the Bible clearly warns us of adding or taking away of the word of God and that’s exactly what this Andy is attempting to do by self proclaiming what he thinks is important/required and what’s not in the Bible.

@trevorr5524

3 жыл бұрын

Amen

@SamuelJLupica

3 жыл бұрын

Amen I would look into some of the books that have been thrown out of the Bible in recent years (last 1500) the historical rise of “Christianity” in Europe and here in the West...

@krustysurfer

3 жыл бұрын

There was no bible at that time btw, there was the Tanakh and almost all of it was Orally taught by Rabbis to Yahudi's, if you were a Gentile you were not privy to the Tanakh. Jesus earthly ministry was to the Hebrews firstly and then to the Gentiles as well after the ressurection. The Tribal leaders rejected The Messiah. The old covenant was fulfilled With Jesus the Messiah. He is the new covenant the third temple and Christian believers are Spiritual Israel. The old was done away with on the cross and the resurrection. We don't need the bible to spread the good news. Jesus was the good news. His death was the good news. Most people were illiterate at the time of Jesus there was no bible at that time. It was only the good news.

@SamuelJLupica

3 жыл бұрын

T D and yet most “Christians” would agree and yet at the same time tell you that even though we were grafted in that somehow we are separate and don’t have to obey the law

@Jketernity

3 жыл бұрын

T D well I guess at the end of the day it comes down to wether you receive and believe the Bible to be the actual true inspired Word of God. If so then there is no arguing Jesus’s words as I mentioned and have to survey the gospel from an Exegesis standpoint and not importing ones own option

The new testement is filled with quotes and references from the old testament.......

@TheWayoftheMostHigh

5 жыл бұрын

Daniel Vincent inaccurately and out of context, yes. Lol

@Daniel-oy4gu

5 жыл бұрын

Are you saying that Jesus and the divinely inspired apostles took OT scripture out of context?

@TheWayoftheMostHigh

5 жыл бұрын

Daniel Vincent Absolutely.

@Daniel-oy4gu

5 жыл бұрын

Oh are you a Muslim or Jewish?

@TheWayoftheMostHigh

5 жыл бұрын

Daniel Vincent I only follow Genesis to Deuteronomy.

I hope and pray that Andy listens to this podcast later and humbly prays and seeks God's forgiveness and guidance. The more I read the Old Testament, the more connectivity and validation I receive with the New Testament. Dig in....people are hungry for the Word of God and my experience is that a heart desire and hunger to know God will experience a supernatural revelation. Try it! Don't unhitch.

Andy is about trying to bring more and more people into Christianity, and more types of people: young and old, right and left, all ethnicities and religions and no religion. I'm a new Christian, converted from a lifetime of atheism, and I tried in-person churches as well as online ministers before I settled on North Point with Andy Stanley. I love his direct and inspiring messages to follow Christ. I respect and appreciate his refusal to drag politics onto the pulpit (a practice which immediately turned me off wherever I came across it). As far as this discussion here, I find the New Testament much more approachable and comprehensible than the Old Testament. Andy does indeed preach from the Old Testament as well as the New Testament, I can attest to that. But right now my focus is on my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and his life, death and Resurrection. I will learn more about the Bible including the Old Testament as I go along. But I totally understand and agree with Andy's approach of starting out newbies to the faith by centering them directly on Jesus Christ. Jeff Durbin is a good speaker and debater, and most likely correct as far as his biblical points, but I don't believe Andy is incorrect by using his approach. Jesus *is* kinda irresistible once you get to know much about him, so why not introduce new believers and potential believers by focusing directly on him and the New Testament, while bringing more and more of the Old Testament to them as they learn and grow in the faith? What if that catches more fish?

@TimothySmith-by1sc

Ай бұрын

Excellent comment. Neither Jeff or Andy is wrong. It’s just a different approach to how to bring people to Jesus. Andy has a way of simplifying things , to as Jesmff said, ‘meet people where they are at’. Somplify. Crawl before we walk. As Andy teaches- if there was no resurrection, there would be no ‘the Bible’. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John basically wrote biographies. Of Jesus life. If Jesus didn’t ride from the read, Christianity itself woukd not be here, it eoukd have died with Christ, on the cross. And the ‘Bible’ as we know it came along 380 ad ish-350 years after Jesus. Different teaching. God will judge all. As a follower of. Grist I’m trying to introduce people to Jesus, and whatever gets them tgere( as long as it’s truth ) is the goal. For me A Christian is a follower of Christ- so I suggest to newbies start with the 4 gospels, and read and learn with Jesus DID, SAID, TAUGHT, and THOHGHT, and try to follow and do them. As this commenter said, learn Christ first then the more they desire to learn we can get the whole story with the rest of the New Testament, and how the Old Testamebt sets the table for Jesus. Jesus quotes a ton of old testamebt scrioture, but let’s learn Jesus first. What ever works. All followers of Christ are on the same team. Let’s act like it and teach the best we can and leave the judging to God and Christ. Many of these comments seem so Anto- Andy and so judgment -ish Respect both and let’s go share the Good News as best we can..

Praying for you Andy.

@dennis9423

3 жыл бұрын

Why? I am not sure if you are praying for his repentance or for his resilience against all these false, ignorant accusations.

@6.0hhh

3 жыл бұрын

@@dennis9423 So what's the satisfaction you get out of trolling peoples comments who disagree with Andy? Do you follow him or Christ? Durbin without a doubt is correct in this discussion. Andy was impatient, rude, and quite frankly not very good at responding to Jeff. Anytime Andy didn't know how to respond, he would accuse him of going in circles, but never actually demonstrated it. I saw a comment where you asked the gentleman if he even watched the video. I think the question is, did you watch it? You said they agreed in Theology and that they both agreed that they did. Well that isn't true at all. Andy claimed that in his opening, but Jeff came out and said no, that this IS a difference in theology. And it clearly is. Theology leads to how we approach people, so clearly the methodology is going to be different since the theology is different. With much respect to Andy, he didn't counter what Jeff was saying, at all. Jeff went to the text that Andy would bring up, whereas Andy didn't. It was "well you can't be right because i have a particular understanding of what this verse means." Jeff was very thorough whereas Andy was very surface level. Jeff is right, Andy is wrong.

@dennis9423

3 жыл бұрын

@@6.0hhh Let me start by saying that I don't appreciate your tone towards me. I do not get satisfaction at all from responding to people's comments who are disparaging Andy's reputation. It actually grieves me to do it. I wish responders would listen to the content carefully rather than to have some sort of knee jerk response from the title. I disagree with you that they differ in theology. There might be some minor points, but General theology or Biblical theology is common between them. If fact, if you read Andy's latest book, "Irresistible" you will see he is rooted in O.T. theology. They both believe in the Authority of scripture in both Testaments. They both believe in inerrancy and the infallible truth of God in the original autographs. They both believe salvation is by grace alone, through the grace of God, by the shedding of Christ's blood. Tell me, please, where they disagree theologically? Now, I know that later in the discussion Durbin tries to make Andy's approach to evangelism as a theological issue, which it is not. Theology is about the nature and character of God. This was never a discussion in that. The above doctrines I mentioned were never discussed. It was strictly over methodology. But, if you disagree with me, I would really appreciate you pointing out where. If I am in error, I want to correct it and apologize. But, so far, no one has pointed out anything that Andy has said that is heretical. Thanks for your comment.

@sprint429

2 жыл бұрын

Because Andy is not teaching biblically sound doctrine. Teaching your congregation that Scripture does not command the assembling of the church together for worship and fellowship is heretical and contradictory to Scripture’s instructions for the church in Hebrews 10:25.

Increased respect for Jeff after this!!

Jeff you have such great Biblical arguments! Love it!

All I got out of this is pretty simple, one wants to be a friend of the world, bring in the numbers, whatever works, I’m all for it, Lord have mercy. The other is the ALL sufficiency of the word of God, the mercy of the Lord. 🙌🏻

@donna3675

Жыл бұрын

YES👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I love that Jeff Durbin used the scriptures for all his replies!

@pghmoore

Жыл бұрын

Because he actually believes in scripture. Andy wants to morph God into what he likes.

@calmnrelaxed

7 ай бұрын

And because when he evangelizes he encounters a similar position from non believers (whether they be: Jews, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, etc), it just makes it easier to drive points home with some who should have the same presuppositions.

Exactly Jeff , the resurrection of Jesus is backed by the prophecies.

I have never witnessed someone proven so wrong and yet so arrogant and unable to learn. Jeff's closing argument was impeccable and Andy's responses were unintelligi-babel.

''But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed'' its all one story

My initial entrance into the kingdom of heaven was directly tied to my engagement with the whole bible. Prior to my introduction to the scriptures I was investigating other religious and spiritual systems to discover what the truth was. Upon coming to the scriptures and finding a complete and comprehensive worldview I was convinced and drawn to God. Simply put, due to the fact that I could contend with an unchanging text I could come to a correct conclusion about the truthfulness and validity of the scriptures. No need to rely on a spiritual teachers interpretation of obscure texts or purely oral traditions. Just fixed information. And THAT has always been my anchor. The scripture reveals the things we can't see (either because we are removed by time from the historical events, or because we aren't privvy to the goings on in the spiritual realm). Remember, blessed are those who believe without having seen. The scriptures are all we have for the complete worldview...

“The New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New” - Saint Augustine.

@carmelitovista14

3 жыл бұрын

What the New revealed, the Old concealed. -RC Sproul.

@DaveGme

3 жыл бұрын

And Andy knows, believes, and says the same thing.

@JLeppert

3 жыл бұрын

Augustine also preached that the catholic church was the main authority of God on the earth and the Bible was supplementary to it. In fact, he denied all 5 Solas. Not directly as that nonsense took another 1000 years to show up, but you're quoting a hard core catholic that held on to a crap ton of manechean gnostic heresy

@JLeppert

3 жыл бұрын

St Augustine said the catholic church was the arbiter of truth, not the Bible. Stop picking that guy for what you like. It's embarrassing

@srourfamily

3 жыл бұрын

Reading Saint Augustine work as giving me a stronger faith and traveling around the world i have encounter many people who read his work and follow his essentials Americans should read his work and Thomas Aquinas, many will find that their views vital today. great job

Wow did I lose a lot of respect for Andy. His pride is swelling and blinding him from seeing and hearing truth. The fact that the truth is coming from the word is even more troubling when you see how he responds to the verses Jeff is quoting. He isn't trying to learn or listen, he's trying to make sure his pride isn't hurt.

The prophecy of the Old Testament coming to fruition brings us so much hope as believers! The work of God through the lives of those under the old covenant brings us so much hope and encouragement! The law in the Old Testament makes me love God even more because He reconciled us to Him through the death and resurrection of Jesus when the law showed us our absolute depravity and need for a Savior! Seeing Gods love and faithfulness and judgement in the Old Testament brings me to my knees before our CreatorGod! The whole Word of God is alive and working in our lives as we read it.

@susanwilson1230

Жыл бұрын

Couldn’t have said it better!

I just want to humbly point out that Jeff used A LOT more Scripture than Andy did. It also seemed that sometimes Andy took short snippets of Bible verses without considering their context.

Im so glad this came up in my feed! And i still feel the same as i did when i first heard Andy Stanley say what he did. He just doesnt seem to "get it"... the old testament can be understood more clearly with study and searching out the scriptures! There are answers and they connect and work together beautifully! Jesus was ALL THROUGH the old testament.... you cant have the new without. Jesus is the word!

@Wretched2JZ

2 жыл бұрын

Agree Andy is blind to it. I don’t think he’s willfully rejecting it because he doesn’t want to obey God and by that doesn’t have a true love for God. God has to be the one to open peoples eyes spiritually and most times it’s in steps! Pray Andy lets whatever pride is holding him back go!

@deborahpreston6673

2 жыл бұрын

Plus the New Testament quotes the Old Testament a lot

@cmaried87

Жыл бұрын

Amen! 👏🏻

Jeff destroyed the heretics false preaching. Praise God for His children that stand on the authority of His word. Wow that was so insightful and edifying thank you dearest Lord. Please protect and guide all three these men. In Jesus name. Amen 🙏🏻✝️🤍

Thank you for doing this! Really good debate. I can understand both Jeff and Andy. I am glad the debate was so well done and respectful.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

@brenosantana1458

3 жыл бұрын

Psalm 33 6, gen 1 3.

@brenosantana1458

3 жыл бұрын

If you understand that the word means Jesus in that context, it's not. See Isaiah 44 24, only the father is the criator.

@nailsbymissymari3463

3 жыл бұрын

@@brenosantana1458 as you can see for your self Jesus is God and God is Jesus

@brenosantana1458

3 жыл бұрын

See Jesus s opinion on who is God.

@brenosantana1458

3 жыл бұрын

@Noah Wells In left field?

When this conversation started, I was optimistic that Andy was going to explain his position in a way that reconciled away the controversy. Unfortunately, the more Andy talked, the more confounded his position appears to be. The "event" (resurrection) that Andy wants to be the only thing that matters is nothing without the "book" which is the Old Testament that predicts it and the New Testament that records it's fulfillment, the "event." I cannot understand Andy's position. Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.

@johnraymond1861

5 жыл бұрын

Till heaven and earth pass away not one jot or title will pass from the law! If you love God keep his 10commandments

@mr.c2485

5 жыл бұрын

Kevin Morris Jesus became subject to the law by becoming sin. His “no condemnation “ message stems from the fact that he too had to die not only physically, but also spiritually. The law is not about compliance, but rather judgement exposed through weakness. That is our justification and the only means to the claim that we love our neighbor as ourselves. We too must become sin.

@mr.c2485

5 жыл бұрын

john raymond That’s the definition of legalism. Compliance to the law is not only impossible, but scripture makes it clear that anyone would tries to justify themselves through compliance to the law is under a curse. Why do you think scripture says that if anyone breaks a single law they violate the whole of it? The writer was trying to make compliance obsolete. No one can comply nor ever even know if they are in compliance . It’s a fools game!

@johnraymond1861

5 жыл бұрын

Mr.C Call it what you like but it's truth God shows old and new testament God says you love him IF you obey his commandments Multiple times! Let me ask you a question what dose man say love is? I lied to you because I love you? I've heard Christians say this and believe it! man's claim of love is all over the place) But God will say if you lie you don't love. You can take every commandment put it in to that statement! the only debatable one in that statement by modern Christianity is the 4th Sabbath?

@johnraymond1861

5 жыл бұрын

Mr.C God and Jesus say law leads to life scripture says this many times Paul says the law is a course only once So who's right? God and Jesus throughout multiple books even revelation the last book that can't be changed or Paul in only one book?

It is absolutely amazing how hard Andy works to deny the authority of God's Word.

@kevinmaginity6420

3 ай бұрын

There was a guy working hard but it wasn’t Andy.

Jesus IS the Word of God! He is the Testament of and the fulfillment of the entire Word. Really enjoyed Jeff’s heart for and honor for the Word. Also enjoyed his humility and response when being interrupted.

Maybe most of you know the saying, "The new is in the old concealed, the old is in the new revealed. It is one book, one story. God's love, God's remedy for our fall.

@captainmarvelmsc7692

2 жыл бұрын

Thats a Catholic Bishop your quoting btw.

@jameshinton429

2 жыл бұрын

Well the Catholic nailed it then.

@captainmarvelmsc7692

2 жыл бұрын

@@jameshinton429 its interesting because if u go down the church history lane more and more u find some very revealing information that has a fundamental impact on Jeff Durbin's position.

@jameshinton429

2 жыл бұрын

@@captainmarvelmsc7692 I’m a Lutheran, and agree with Jeff on almost everything. Calvinists and Lutherans (LCMS) are a lot closer than one might think.

@captainmarvelmsc7692

2 жыл бұрын

@@jameshinton429 thats very interesting, and we are very familiar with the dichotomy between the two. It was Zwinglie that Luther did not care for. Perhaps over a beer robust positions would be debated, particularly on matters of faith and morals, but we do encourage u to review the first three centuries in depth of Church history. That plus reading the actual words and writing of John Calvin and Martin Luther, is one of the reasons why we dont hold their positions valid. Peace be too u though.

When our church got a new pastor who had been one of the campus pastors at Andy's North Point church, we were excited to be connected to such a thriving ministry. It soon became clear that this was a huge mistake. Topical preaching replaced expository. Pretty much teaching from the latest Christian self help book, with a verse of two added because we were in church. Bible studies lead by qualified teachers were replaced by small group meetings which were lead by those unqualified to teach and that only discussed the sermon anyway. The church theme went from Micah 6:8, "Do Justice, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly," to "For Everyone." The lack of respect for the Word of God runs deep with Andy Stanley and his church. We've been searching for a new church for a while. We're going to check out Apologia church this Sunday.

@vicrider2124

2 жыл бұрын

I have been experiencing some similar issues lately in my church

@JohnMackeyIII

2 жыл бұрын

It is called the seeker friendly movement..

@gospeljoy5713

Жыл бұрын

You know things are screwy when the worship band starts with led zeppelin just to get it out of their system.

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 This is all that needs to be said

Andy: Well you've just made my Point! Jeff : Achtually I HAVENT!!....Ive made the OPPOSITE POINT!! This is Jeff giving Andy a Lesson on the Bible

@cheryla596

7 ай бұрын

This happened twice!! Plus a couple other times when Andy was very obviously confused and said Jeff talked in circles, when he didn’t!

Andy says "here's my opinion". Jeff says, "here's what the Bible says".

@20july1944

5 жыл бұрын

What makes any epistle "scripture"? Do you have any criteria?

@20july1944

5 жыл бұрын

@Pusalieth So is it anything an apostle wrote?

@Levi-rl3fu

5 жыл бұрын

The primary example we have of preaching to unbelieving gentiles is Paul preaching in Acts 17. He doesn't use much scripture when taking to them: in fact, in verse 18 the only thing he is said to have mentioned that piqued their attention is that Jesus Rose from the dead.

@tsines3

5 жыл бұрын

@Levi Currently preaching through Acts. Paul’s speech at the Areopagus is filled with OT theology. It is a summary of the Tanach’s doctrine of God.

@Levi-rl3fu

5 жыл бұрын

Taylor Sines That is true! However, I doubt the Athenians knew the OT theological background of what he was saying. He didn't start out by stating "the only source of Truth is the Tanakh" and require they accept that presupposition before continuing the argument-but he did quote their own writers to point out a contrast with the truth he was presenting. We can use wisdom toward the world without quoting them chapter and verse is all I'm saying. But I would be interested to know more about the OT background you speak of!

Whew, you could tell Andy was getting a little agitated midway through…… because Jeff was really mopping the floor with him in this debate.

You did an amazing job in your explanation, Jeff. Thank u

Jeff seems to have his Bible memorized

Andy: "What's the foundation of your faith...why do you believe what you believe?" Jeff: "The Word of the Living God!" BOOM [silence]

@fandude7

5 жыл бұрын

BIG BOOM!!!

@TheNikolinho

5 жыл бұрын

indeed is the Bible our foundation of the faith. but for the apostles it wasn't just the OT, but the witnessing of Jesus' life and resurrection. let's not forget that! they saw the events with their own eyes and started to believe. they wrote it down so that we can believe too. so, of course, our foundation has to be solely the Bible since we couldn't witness those events.

@jwrsob

5 жыл бұрын

@@TheNikolinho I didn't just say the OT. I said The Word of Living God. But I dont understand your point. The OT was the only scripture the Apostles could reference. Any scripture quoted by Jesus or an Apostle was the Old Testament.

@shleyayanelay

5 жыл бұрын

The Bible is not the foundation of our faith! The Bible wasn’t around when Christianity started. The only reason Christianity exists is because of the death and resurrection of Christ.

@michaeldukes4108

4 жыл бұрын

Ashley Castleberry ... Um, the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) was around when Christianity started. 🤔

When the radio host stated that Andy believes we should do away with the old testament, I already knew that Jeff won this debate before it even started.

@DaveGme

3 жыл бұрын

And the radio host was wrong about what Andy said, so it was a lynching from the start.

@jimkuhn3500

3 жыл бұрын

@@DaveGme no it's what andy thinks,

@gerardjayetileke4373

2 жыл бұрын

@@DaveGme exactly. Andy's initial and incorrect portrayal seems to have dominated the responses despite everything he had said to the contrary.

@NPC985

2 жыл бұрын

When the opening is a defense of "unhitching"

@gareth2736

2 жыл бұрын

@@gerardjayetileke4373 most folk finding listening a difficult skill.

The Old Testament is when I first got the fear of the Lord! Which is the beginning of all wisdom and knowledge! When I read about how God first appeared on that mountain to moses, he spoke to the people and the men were so afraid that they did not want God to speak to them anymore. Whatever those men saw and heard scared those men to the core.

@juliemorton2681

7 ай бұрын

Totally agree! Me too, I was saved reading the OT

I absolutely believe we need to make sure we use the whole bible and not just the event of the crucifixion. The back story of the crucifixion, revelation of Jesus was pre- determined in the Old Testament. Thanks Pastor Jeff for you’re stand on this. It’s vital and imperative because it helps us equip ourselves in order to share the holy bible with non- believers, in fullness of all scripture. How would we share Jesus to Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses? They believe in the basis of the resurrection but the Jesus they believe in is not the same Jesus I believe in. They don’t believe Jesus is God… The Old Testament explains Jesus is God… Once again we need both, the Old Testament and New Testament in order to to bring the Fullness of God to fruition.

Based on these comments I expected to be totally opposed to what Andy is saying, but I ended up mostly just being annoyed that he constantly interrupted Jeff lol. He makes some good points about how we evangelize and that we start with Jesus. But at the end of day I think Jeff's view of scripture is better overall. it's important to not de-emphasize the totality of scripture and that the Gospel is not just in the new testament. it's in the whole bible.

@faenriel

Жыл бұрын

I get the feeling that even Stanley knows that his argument is not a winning one. His thesis is not well thought out - I haven't listened to him enough to discern if it's due to intellectual laziness or because he's not very deep to begin with.

@Rick-the-Swift

Жыл бұрын

@@faenriel I think Andy Stanley is quite deep, although it's not in spirituality. What I get mostly from him is a still angry teenager, who wants badly to be more popular than his dad, at the same time wanting to destroy much of what his dad had built. He, like many other arrogant types, simply can't admit to being wrong about anything, and will routinely double down on his flawed logic whenever it's confronted. It's the same with people like, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, Lawrence Kraus, etc. They are mere debaters, who care little about the truth, and are entirely focused on appearing to sound correct, resorting to slippery analogies and confusing doubletalk whenever they feel they may be losing ground on a particular argument.

@lovesilk1

Жыл бұрын

@@Rick-the-Swift I totally discern this same thing, Rick. There seems to be an issue with pastors who's father's were also ministers. Many of them seem to go in weird directions.

@donna3675

Жыл бұрын

@@faenriel my feelings as well. I think Andy is dumbing down Christianity to accommodate the modern culture of shallowness, entitled-ness, and short attention span. The present generation probably thinks that they are entitled to go to heaven, and they are not accountable for their sins. The dumbing down of Christianity as presented by Andy AKA salvation by the path of least resistance.

Well done, Jeff! Thanks for standing on God’s Word!

@reformedtubers1028

5 жыл бұрын

Christ’sCrownandCovenant ABSOLUTELY good on Him for being remain Faithful to GODS INFALLIBLE WORD🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🔥🔥

@robb7855

5 жыл бұрын

Jesus is God's word. His resurrection affirms His Authority.

Andy Stanley gives long winded answers but expects short one word answers.

Thank you for taking your precious time to make sure we reach eternal salvation. Means a lot to many of us.

@ 37:12 Andy's reply to Jeff's extremely sound rebuttal is, "I think you went in a circle" (he didn't) then @ 37:19 after being essentially dismantled and at a loss for words Andy says, "here's my OPINION" Right there I knew we were about to enter the twilight zone

@briangeiger9307

2 жыл бұрын

To say you are going in a circle is an insult. I notice Atheist like to use insults as well. Insults appeals to the flesh. Is like watching a punch out. It makes your side feel strong. If you say someone is going in a circle, you better follow that up carefully lengthy explanation of why. Is not to be used as a one liner and dismiss the other person. Jesus said you know a false prophet by his fruit. They come in sheep's clothing, but inward are ferocious wolves. Does the person have the fruit of the Spirit? What is their conduct in a discussion?

@AC-yq2fx

Жыл бұрын

Andy knew he had to say that because he got owned.

@jordantheriverman6143

Жыл бұрын

There’s also the scary possibility that Stanley was genuinely confused and unable to hear what Jeff was saying.

His death, burial, and resurrection were according to the Scriptures. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

@Manuel-dn8hn

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you! That should end this whole debate... Andy needs some recalibration!

@BK-yz7px

5 жыл бұрын

Doc E! So how do you explain the testimony of someone like Lee Strobel who came to the conclusion about Jesus being who He was and the resurrection through historical documents? He was an atheist who went out to actually prove the Bible wrong by using non-Biblical sources, and he eventually came to the conclusion that Jesus was who he claimed to be - the Messiah. It was only after he got to that point without the Bible that he recognized the value of the Bible. There are historical documents not in the Bible that point to the resurrection of Christ, as Strobel would affirm.

@joshtrusts

5 жыл бұрын

Amen! It amazes me how many people miss this when talking about the resurrection. It also deserves underlining that Paul says that is what he originally preached to the Corinthians who were not a Jewish audience. The proclamation of Christ crucified according to the scriptures is given to all whether Jew or Gentile, and they will find it to be a stumbling block or foolishness unless they are called.

@joshtrusts

5 жыл бұрын

@@BK-yz7px It is wonderful that Lee Strobel got saved and the Holy Spirit is the cause of his conversion. That doesn't mean we should use an unbiblical apologetic approach. People can get saved after hearing a poor presentation. And that is wonderful. We should still strive to reason in a way that conforms to Scripture.

@GuitarDog_atx

5 жыл бұрын

@@BK-yz7px How do you explain the testimony of people who were xtians, and left the religion after reading the bible? I can quote them too. The only evidence you have for the most important event, ordained by the most powerful being is what some other mortal human thinks about the supernatural. There is no historical evidence for the resurrection, and most of the evidence appoints that this event certainly didn't happen. Of course, if you don't have a problem with human sacrifice.....

Man this debate didn’t age well for Andy considering where his theology is taking him now

This was an EXCELLENT debate thank you for sharing. These 2 do much to spread the Good News and we all should follow suit and do the same! We are not each others enemies but brothers and sisters and we should do as Our Father and Lord says ❤ TELL THE WORLD ABOUT HIM! 🙏

Stanley: We don't need all those ugly bricks; they're hard and rough and ugly. I would rather look at the house itself with its beautiful wood. Durbin: But Andy the house rests upon those bricks without them we would have no structural integrity. Stanley: I couldn't agree more Jeff- but I still say remove those bricks.

@MrMiahollins

5 жыл бұрын

Lmbo!

@merriweather3030

4 жыл бұрын

If Jesus is God then , he brought us to a new understanding of Himself and our relationship with Him. He is the Word. It doesn’t sound like Andy is saying ignore the incredible word of God. He seems to be saying, God has brought us here. We should want to know the whole incredible story, but start with where He showed up and proved He was God and the story is true. ???

@stamatissavvanis5862

3 жыл бұрын

@@merriweather3030 Everybody comes to genuine faith through one word. If he continues in genuine faith however, depends on what he does with the rest of Gods word. Stanley s standpoint, without admitting it of course, is "Christians can live without it". No they can't.

@4seasonsranch246

3 жыл бұрын

Joe Momma, you nailed it. Andy Stanley's argument may seem reasonable for a new believer, who come to faith by a simple presentation of the good news that Messiah died for all. However, given that Andy Stanley is a teacher of the word, his position is bordering on, if not being full out heresy. This is also evident by his unwillingness to honestly address any of Jeff's arguments. Such unwillingness tells me multiple things: 1) Andy demonstrates that he is and is willing to be irresponsible in his handling of the word of God, 2) Andy's continuous deflection of the specific points of the argument shows that he is being dishonest in arguing and that he, a) knows that he is being dishonest and thus runs from the light of the argument, and b) cares more about maintaining his own perspective and building his own kingdom than he is about teaching the truth and building the King's Kingdom, and finally, 3) Andy Stanley does not rejoice in the true foundation of God's covenant and the true faith. Instead, Andy Stanley is potentially creating his own form of faith, and His own Jesus (2Cor 11:4) of a different foundation than that which YHVH laid. If Andy Stanley does not mean his gospel to be a different religion of his own creation-and I am not convinced that he does not-he is regardless laying the foundation for a different religion, which provides a gospel that has no power and that cannot save.

@trevorr5524

3 жыл бұрын

Loool

Of course not! The whole Bible is just one complete message system from God. It enriches the understanding of the whole relationship between God and man.

@josephrohland5604

3 жыл бұрын

No. The Bible is the story of Yahweh's fulfilled plan of redemption given exclusively to and for Israelites under the curse of the Old Covenant Law of sin and death.The Bible's theme of redemption/salvation does not pertain to anyone beyond AD 70 first century. No one beyond AD 70 is in need of Biblical redemption/salvation nor is in danger of any biblical judgement. Live well. Do no harm.

@jonathanglukhoman5285

3 жыл бұрын

@@josephrohland5604 That is a VERY interesting interpretation that makes me question whether you've ever even read the Bible. Starting with the very beginning of Genesis the entire Bible is the story of all mankind sinning against God, condemning themselves to eternal hell in the process, and of Jesus Christ dying on the cross and rising again to offer salvation to EVERYONE who receives it.

@josephrohland5604

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonathanglukhoman5285 No. Genesis is the story of the beginnings of the tribes of Israel only under the Old Covenant Law, the very first law being given to Adam and Eve warning them not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Only Israelites were given the Old covenant Law so only Israelites needed redemption from that Law. Pagan, non-Israelites were never subjected to the Old Covenant Law which means they never needed salvation. See Matthew 5:18, Hebrews 9:15, Galatians 4:5 and Romans 9:1-4. That is why in Matthew 15:24 Jesus says he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

@nyambsdeborah8954

3 жыл бұрын

@@josephrohland5604 Jesus came to die and save us from our sins Each and every human sins. And the new testament talks about how Jesus died not just for Israel but all men and how Gentiles are grafted into the stock of Abraham

@josephrohland5604

3 жыл бұрын

@@nyambsdeborah8954 No. the Bible is clear: Matthew 15:24- "I only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel". ~Jesus Christ Hebrews 9:15- "Redemption was only for those who sinned under the first covenant". ~Apostle Paul Galatians 4:5- "Jesus came only to redeem those under the (Old Covenant) Law".~ Apostle Paul Romans 9:1-4- "The ADOPTION into Sonship, the GLORY, the COVENANTS, the giving of the LAW, the WORSHIP and the PROMISES only BELONGED to ancient ISRAELITES". ~Apostle Paul

Jeff Durbin - Biblical thinking, God dependent > authoritative word of God methodology. Andy Stanley - Opinion and Feeling > Man-centered attraction methodology.