This is really stellar work, and it's nice to see a comprehensive piece on Cartmell's list, which was so instrumental in kickstarting the roller coaster enthusiast community. Thanks to Cartmell, the article brought to light many parks and coasters that enthusiasts hadn't even heard of. It most certainly was part of the inspiration that eventually led to the founding of ACE, just 4 years later. Thank you for your work!

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

It really is amazing how much Cartmell did for the community - it’s crazy to think of a time when many of these coasters were relatively unknown. Thanks so much for the kind words, really glad you enjoyed the video

Some weird comparisons given that the modern polls don't exclude modern coasters. And using a term like "ranks in the bottom" of a top 10 when compared to a "high" placing of 41st in another poll is really unsound. I was happy to see that all coasters mentioned in that original top ten are still around today (err, at least were as of two years ago). I don't like that CoasterBot's poll doesn't do separate wood/steel categories (since wood coasters can *really* vary over time with offseason retracking and Mitch Hawker's poll did an OK job of capturing that - like with Coney Island Cyclone's retracking as you mentioned). ElloCoaster's poll does keep wood and steel separate, but it doesn't have the pull of CoasterBot's following. Out of curiosity, I grabbed ElloCoaster's 2019 wood rankings and took out coasters built after 1974 (and re-numbered accordingly) and found Cartmell's top ten in these positions: 4th Coney Island Cyclone (45th overall 2019 wood) 5th Crystal Beach Comet (60th overall 2019 wood) 6th Santa Cruz Giant Dipper (63rd overall 2019 wood) 7th Lakeside Cyclone (64th overall 2019 wood) 9th Kennywood Thunderbolt (69th overall (nice) wood) 13th Giant Coaster/Wild One (77th overall 2019 wood) 14th Montaña Rusa (79th overall 2019 wood) 30th Kings Island Racer (120th (Blue) and 122nd (Red)) 33rd Great American Scream Machine (132nd overall) 34th Dorney's Thunderhawk (133rd overall 2019 wood) And for good measure, here's some other high ranking coasters from that analysis 1st PNE Playland's Coaster (7th overall 2019 wood) 2nd Knoebel's Phoenix (11th overall 2019 wood) 3rd Tivoli Garden's Rutschebanen (38th overall) 8th Washington State Fair's Classic Coaster (68th) 10th Linnanmäki's Vuoristorata (70th overall) 11th Blackpool's Grand National (72nd overall) 12th Kennywood's Jack Rabbit (74th overall) It does make me wonder what *other* great coasters that didn't make Cartmell's top ten no longer exist today. Hell, there's loads of famous coasters that were born and died between 1974 and today (like Hercules at Dorney Park and Texas Cyclone - not to mention steel coasters). Always good to watch your videos and listen to some Peter McConnell Sly Cooper music.

@JNattyBoi

2 жыл бұрын

Totally fair point. I struggled to find a way to present the poll results without it being too confusing; I figured that since I was ranking each coaster relative to one another, their placement on each individual poll would be inconsequential, but I still wasn't 100% happy with how it looked in the end. It's a much better comparison when you remove the coasters built after the poll's release, as you did above. Also, I too was unhappy to see that CoasterBot's poll failed to separate wood and steel coasters; I'll have to check out ElloCoaster's poll if I ever make another video like this one. Robert Cartmell actually updated his list in 1978 (with the Texas Cyclone as the new king of coasters). I cannot find the original source, but here's the list on a old forum thread: www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/forums/roller-coasters-theme-parks/39377. Apparently, even as late as 1987, the Texas Cyclone was still his #1. Thanks for taking the time to write all this up! And glad to have another Sly fan come by

@JeffreyPiatt

Жыл бұрын

Hercules didn't make the list because it was always rough. Thundhawk has been renovated since the 70's when it was coaster it still had a station with bumper cars attached and the train leaving the station would go under it. The building was also next to the original entrance gate so a large dorney park sign with Alfundo the clown juggling his balls was atopt the station then. When Ceder Fair replaced the station with the modern one and removed the old bumper cars the tunnel became a ditch before the lift hill.

Wow, Robert Cartmell was a printmaker/artist who also taught at SUNY Albany in the 1970s. Quiet and meek in real like though when he spoke in drawing class it was always a gem. One day he was missing from class and we found out he had gone to NYC to be guest they were trying to ferret out on "What's My Line". He was also briefly a consultant to the movie "Rollercoaster" with George Segal, but quit when he found out the film was going to be a diaster movie. Roller coasters were on the way out and he couldn't stand to see them disparged in a movie. His historical knowledge and getting like minded coaster lovers together, with advent of newer technology saved rollercoasters. When he heard Palisades Amusement Park was closing he rushed down on the last day and took slide photos and treated the drawing class to them while playing Chuck Barris' "Pallisades Park". While a rollercoaster thrill seeker I believe he also suffered from depression. Great guy. .

Fun fact: the Giant Dipper's first drop and pullout are identical to that of the prototype Arrow Corkscrew!

This video was fantastic - what an unique and interesting comparison! Thanks for using our poll as one of your metrics :)

@JNattyBoi

2 жыл бұрын

Hey thanks so much! Really appreciate you coming by :) and thank YOU for taking the time to put that poll together, I can’t even imagine all the work that goes into making that happen. Congrats on the big turnout for this year’s version!

@coasterbot

2 жыл бұрын

@@JNattyBoi thank you! I'm happy with the 2021 poll, it's an improvement on last year. Though as you mentioned in the video, rides with low ridership underperform consistently. I'm working on ways to mitigate that and drastically improve the accuracy of these rides. :)

@drdewott9154

2 жыл бұрын

@@coasterbot Yeah. Maybe take the rankings and divide it by the number of riders conducted in the poll, so we get something closer to a "Per capita" basis for polls.

I'm a simple man, I hear sly Cooper music I like

I live in Albany and go to the Great Escape every once in awhile solely for the Comet, it's an absolutely amazing wooden coaster and one of my favorites

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

I’ve been meaning to go for a while but have never been. Heard only amazing things about the Comet, hopefully I can get there someday!

Thunderhawk is now a ACE landmark coaster. It's the oldest operating PTC coaster even with it's renovation giving it two serial numbers.

7:16 "Just south of San Francisco" Ahahaha more like an hour and a half south, plus traffic through SF and on 17. Maybe beach traffic didn't exist back then but man is it annoying today.

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

Hahaha another prime example of just how ancient this list is

Sic Flags Over Georgia actually re tracked the beginning and end of Great American Scream Machine over the off season and I now find the ride tolerable, the valleys in the middle are still brutal though.

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

Oh cool! Nice to hear they’re giving the ride some much-needed love.

@alaeriia01

2 жыл бұрын

It's called the Great American Oof Machine for a reason...

I love the shade throwing at Six Flags. They neglect everything they touch.

Surprised that only one of the coasters on the list is defunct.

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

Right? I was surprised too.

Yo the Sly OST absolutely amazing taste

You know what’s funny, there are actually 2 giant dipper coasters in CA. The other one being in San Diego at Belmont park. I’ve ridden it at least 20 times and at the bottom of the first drop, in the back row, it feels like gravity tripled itself as your back is getting hurt no matter how much you brace. In the “magic seat” as I like to call it, it gives some decent airtime for a 100 year old ride

Great video! I remember meeting Robert Cartmell in 1978 and I've also ridden the Rocket in San Antonio before it closed. My dad remembers riding the Rocket when it opened in 1946!

This is exceptionally well done. I wish you the best of luck on the growth of your KZread channel, sir. I never pay attention to coaster channels this early in the game, but you very evidently know what you're talking about. I'm excited to subscribe to ya!

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! Appreciate the support, thanks for the sub :)

I was glad and proud to see 4 Pennsylvania parks referenced in this report. Even if they all were not part of the actual list. It's my childhood all over...lol Thanx! Good work.

I am kind of surprised that Leap the Dips didn't make Cartmel's list. it's so old and also a classic. I can agree surprised that Hersheypark's Comet didn't make the list, I love riding Comet. It was my 3rd ever roller coaster. Also shocked me about Jack Rabbit, but pretty awesome that Thunderbolt was in the top 3! It's a pretty awesome ride.

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

Comet was one of my first coasters too! I wonder if Cartmell didn’t include Jack Rabbit since he already had a ride from Kennywood (Thunderbolt) on the list and wanted to spread the love.

@sportsygirl8

3 жыл бұрын

@@JNattyBoi That is awesome!!! It's a great one to start out on that is for sure. That is what I'm thinking is that since he picked Thunderbolt that he just leave it at that and spread the love and not hog at one park. He could have because Kennywood has some nice old woodies.

@owenstockwood5040

2 жыл бұрын

@@sportsygirl8 To be fair, if you are including it due to age, Leap the Dips was not the oldest roller coaster at the time of the list. That was instead, as far as I know, Scenic, at the defunct Six Gun Territory, formerly Willow Grove Park, in Willow Grove Pennsylvania. That was, as far as I know, the last 19th century roller coaster to close, having opened in 1896 and closed with the park in 1975.

@sportsygirl8

2 жыл бұрын

@@owenstockwood5040 That is true, I wasn't thinking about that.

@owenstockwood5040

2 жыл бұрын

@@sportsygirl8 Fair enough. It's probably not even that well known among enthusiasts. I only found the ride on a random deep dive on RCDB. Six Gun Territory seems like it would have been a generally quite interesting park in terms of classic rides at this point, also having an L.A. Thompson Scenic railway and an Edward A. Vettel designed wooden coaster, plus a wild mouse and a kiddie coaster. Shame it didn't quite make it when the coaster boom kicked off.

Absolutely top notch videos from such a young channel, please keep them coming. Get a patreon going and I’ll be your first sub.

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

Oh wow, thanks so much! I'll be sure to let you know if I ever start one someday :)

I went on the Cyclone at Lakeside and it certainly hasn't aged gracefully, compared to more modern coasters. The first half was alright, not anything special, but the second half the coaster practically crawled, with none of the hills providing even an ounce of airtime. At least it's cheap to ride

@JNattyBoi

2 жыл бұрын

Looking at offride videos, that definitely make sense. It’s great to hear someone’s perspective on this very under-ridden coaster - I’ve never really heard anyone talk about it. Thanks for the comment!

this was really interesting! i loved the comparison and its cool thunderbolt was the top spot. i think a lot of what makes it unique was carrier over to phantom's revenge (it even intersects the thunderbolt) which is ranked highly going on 20 years now. it makes sense to me thunderbolt would be the top spot.

Playland in Vancouver is my home park, and Coaster is the first roller coaster I ever went on! Glad to see it get a honorable mention here! Coaster is also Playland's only coaster, after our Vekoma Corkscrew (with Bayerncurve) was dismantled in 2018.

@dustmybroom288

2 жыл бұрын

PlayLand is also my home park. My first roller coaster was the wild mouse that used to be at the park. It was the best ride in the whole park. PlayLand has 2 roller coasters. It also has a kiddie coaster that I think was more fun than Corkscrew.

@JerzeyJimmy

Жыл бұрын

another Cool Playland Fact: their Corkscrew was the ride Devil's Flight from Final Destination 3 was built from (despite it looking a _whole_ lot more like an Arrow mega-looper in the film)

I cant belive the editing in these videos definitely deserves more subs i think you will get 50k soon tbh

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

Hey thanks so much!

I actually rode Montaña Rusa circa about 1998 and I remember it being a lot of fun and pretty fast with a lot of airtime. However, watching some of the most recent on ride videos, it became clear that maintenance had really dropped off and probably explains its poorer reputation in recent years,

@JNattyBoi

2 жыл бұрын

Very interesting to hear - it's amazing how much maintenance can effect a wooden coaster's ride experience. Thanks for the comment!

What an interesting video idea! I really enjoyed this one!

@JNattyBoi

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much!

High quality video, and fun to see how people ranked coasters back in the 70s.

Great coaster HISTORY lessons! Something I feel today's coaster enthusiasts definitely need especially after seeing & reading lame and critical reviews on Knoebel's Flying Turns . I think those critics just don't understand the HISTORIC significance of that classic ride brought back to life by Knoebel's 70+ years after the last one was built . It's like criticizing Leap The Dips for not being exciting enough and not having enough airtime 🙄. So criticizing Bob Cartmell's list would be just as ignorant especially since all but one of those classics are still around today .

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! Definitely think it’s important to be appreciative of the classics :)

In Thunderhawks defense of its original ranking compared to modern rankings, it is not all that rough, Te problem with Thunderhawk, is Cedar Fair. They replaced the Buzz bars with ratcheting individual bars, replaced the seats with divided seats (that make the ride uncomfortable for larger riders, and they removed the tunnel out of the station, and trimmed the first hill, as well as the first ejector moment. That ride used to launch you mercilessly against those buzz bars making it an airtime machine that rivaled almost anything. Now its a neutered mess.

This channel is amazing. I really love the videos I'm watching.

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Glad you’re enjoying them :)

Another great video. Keep up the good work.

BTW great escape is actually in Queensbury NY not the nearby Lake George

@JNattyBoi

2 жыл бұрын

Ay you’re right. It’s proximity to the Lake George Outlets threw me off. I feel like most people assume it’s in Lake George but youre 100% right

Very unique and interesting content. You have earned a subscribe good sir.

Great now I wanna play Sly Cooper

If this list was made a little bit later I wonder what steel coasters he woulda put on... I bet revolution would have been his number one

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

Robert Cartmell actually released an updated list in 1978, but they were still all wooden coasters. Would've been interesting to know what he thought of Revolution though

@bjtgaming

3 жыл бұрын

@@JNattyBoi Must have had his mind blown by the vertical loop

Great video! You forgot to add a segment on the placement of Giant Dipper on the various lists at #6, but I'll forgive you if you keep making more videos :P

What about Giant Dipper at Belmont Park on Mission Beach in San Diego?

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

That was actually my first thought for the honorable mentions list, but it placed pretty low on both of the modern day polls, way lower than the other Prior and Church coaster on the list, so I didn’t mention it. If I had to add another omitted coaster though, it’d probably be this one! I personally think it’s a lot of fun

@themuaddib

3 жыл бұрын

@@JNattyBoi Thanks for the additional context. I always liked Giant Dipper. It has some pretty powerful vertical and lateral forces for a coaster of its size and age. You should do a similar video for the Top 10 wooden and Top 10 steel coasters from the 1998 Golden Ticket awards (the first year of its existence)... goldenticketawards.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/AT_Golden_Ticket_1998.pdf ...just to go over how much things have changed even in the past 20-25 years. For example, the top wooden coaster in 1998 was Texas Giant, which is now the New Texas Giant RMC, and the top steel was Magnum XL-200, which is now #14 on the list with Fury and Mille as #1 and #2. Thanks again!

@JNattyBoi

3 жыл бұрын

@@themuaddib That would be an awesome video - I was thinking of doing one about the Golden Ticket Awards but wasn't sure which year/list to pick. Makes sense to do the first one though! Thanks for the comments and the link

speaking of aging well, the great american scream machine is being retracked.

hey dude your content is sick

RIP Montaña Rusa

Comet the first rmc ha

lets just say drip drip