Thank you for the 3 seconds of fomoria mentions! Lets hope some more is on the horizon as we get into this episode as I was was told by yall it was S tier even though i never hear anyone mention it or see it in high level competitive games on you tube. Im generalizing a little but still. Its my fav nation and you guys are awesome to listen to so i hope there will be some discussion about them in anyway!(specific troops, tiers, builds, strats or just general chit chat.) Also thanks again for more wonderful content I love our premier podcast!

@Mewobiba

7 ай бұрын

I will say a contributing factor to not many competitive Fomoria being shown on youtube is that most of the famous youtube games have been MA or LA games.

Great! Thank you all for this marvel

Tier definitions are just likelihood to win in a tournament setting. Most nations are probably in the A/B tier range, and then definitely some in the C/D tier that usually get eaten early on.

Good content

S tier nation criteria: Can summon cubes Stat bless is most optional Work horse mages good at point buffing cubes and debuffing enemies in a way that makes them vulnerable to cubes No nautical nonsense

thank you Munchcraft for saying Tír na nÓg rather than whatever "tir en nin" is. I keep hearing that and don't get the pronunciation

@lambdalandis

7 ай бұрын

I think most people say “TNN” to avoid having to learn the real pronunciation

@TilmanEnke

7 ай бұрын

@@lambdalandis Thank you! in hindsight, that should have occurred to me but my inability to process abbreviations is strong

@lambdalandis

7 ай бұрын

Took me a while to figure out too. I had the same question

@hpmunchcraft8032

7 ай бұрын

Beer in a bog

This is all very interesting. I would very much like to get better at dominions, particularly the new dominions 6. Any idea where to get a mentor or something, haha? I want to enjoy the game at a greater depth, but all too often it feels like the only way to really learn is to play a game and get stomped on and now know one more thing than you did before. Any more mid to upper teir ways of learning?

So what is the entirety of the s-tier nations in EA if they'll be moving on to MA and LA next?

@rovsea-3761

7 ай бұрын

We couldn't agree entirely.

@jamesbeus598

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for replying and I understand the need to kind of try to figure it out. Also because I'm still learning things about this game too that I wanted to know more about possible S-tier thinking in the dominions community.@@rovsea-3761

My eyelids twitch when someone calls EA Vanheim S-tier. The fact is that while it is EXTREMELY DISRUPTIVE to the meta of your pre-game planning as an EA nation, "The Build" should not be winning tournament games filled with experienced players, and distinctively belongs in the high A-tier. It is a NOOB-STOMPER build which can then be a functioning nation in a skilled lobby. In an Early Age environment where most S/A-tier nation builds are incentivized to play around sacreds, Vanheim is one of many nations which front-loads its power curve and tries to conquer a neighbor or two and win the game in the mid-game. EA is actually remarkably balanced (you can fill a lobby with S, A, and a few B nations) and chances are that Vanheim will have neighbors which have the tools and INCENTIVES to deal with and work with others to bring Vanheim down. "The Build" - let's call it a dormant Monolith with high Dominion, MW, F&S, Barkskin, BB - obviously has extreme strengths it can roll over some nations with. But thankfully it seems impossible to cover all possible weaknesses on any sacred at any point in the game. Even in direct combat, which is the strong point of The Build, Vanhere's 26 slashing damage cannot deal with a surprise teleporting immobile with 39 protection (the optimal way to play, for example, EA Caelum, or maybe EA Ubar which was mentioned here). They trade only slightly positively with a handful of EA sacreds, namely various iterations of Helheim blesses which get 1/10th of the attention of Vanheim. And on a unit with 13 HP and not a lot of other units to support it, taking 10 shock resistance vs Thunderstrike is about the same as 0 shock resistance. By the time you kill one or two nations and want to throne rush, has someone else researched Enchantment fatigue plays/skeleton spam? If everything doesn't go perfectly for you as EA Vanheim, what is your game plan? Where is the siege strength, the gem income, the research, the defense for the capital which is the only place that produces your sacreds? In my humble opinion as someone who has dedicated 1000 hours, mostly to EA games and strategy , I think S-tier for EA is Helheim, Caelum, and possibly Hinnom. Helheim is 10x more flexible than Vanheim and can front-end its power curve just as extreme as Vanheim, is much more effective in the meta-game (who wants to conquer an insanely powerful nation with death turmoil sloth cold drain dominion?) , plus have insane gem income and research with a death air crosspath and siege strength. It is countered by by Scales Caelum, which can cover its weaknesses and win its first war with an "I win" nuke button Golden Idol and out-research everyone alongside infinity troops. Scales Hinnom is more theoretical to me because I haven't played it, but is one of those nations which requires your enemies to overcome good scales troops plus a dormant immobile pretender to put you down, or you will outscale. I think that an S-tier nation should not only be able to defeat MOST other nations in an early 1v1, but that they should be able to hold their own in a 1vX situation once they have exploited an early/mid-game advantage and other players are scared. That, to me, is Helheim and Caelum, for different reasons.

@hpmunchcraft8032

7 ай бұрын

Is this copypasta?

@intptree5188

7 ай бұрын

@@hpmunchcraft8032 No, I wrote it while drunk and stand by it! Blitz me sometime and I'll show you :)

@SoronMuuch

7 ай бұрын

I wont lie this was almost a valid post then it mentions thunder strike, and all credibility goes out the windows. Thunder Strike, the meme spell from air. Ah yes, Hinnom is S tier, but also I have not played the nation????????????

@intptree5188

7 ай бұрын

@@SoronMuuch >mentioning thunder strike it's an example of ONE of the options you can use to kill the rush, and why specifically something like EA Caelum stomps EA Vanheim into the dirt. Because I don't think a vanhere rush is going to include evocation bait. I know it's not amazing, but I want to love thunder strike because I want air evocations to be good (pls Dom6). If you don't see it at a threat, then by all means just take 5/6 fire on your pretender and take +10 fire +attack . But obviously I am a Monolith enjoyer so I agree with earth path. Reminder that EA Caelum is never banned, is played in every EA game, and has multiple wins in Lucid tournaments. >but also I have not played the nation? I said "POSSIBLY", and the entire premise of some of the episodes is you guys 'pog' or 'dog' units or nations that you have never used in a multiplayer game. What I am trying to say here is that Other nations I believe in and have plenty of MP wins with (Helheim, Caelum) are scared of Hinnom and can't roll them over like many other EA nations. It fits my definition of a nation that should beat most nations in a 1v1 and if large could potentially survive a 1vX. It's obvious that Hinnom has good troops, good sacreds, excellent magical diversity/site searching, good heroes, good starting giant castle, can take a strong dormant/imprisoned pretender.... extremely flexible nation in all phases of the game. I'd love to play Hinnom when someone wants to play EA, I have 3 builds each emphasizing a strength. Anyways, I like a lot of your input on the podcast! Don't discount everything in my drunken rant.

@SoronMuuch

7 ай бұрын

​@@intptree5188 A few points here. So, to put this out here. I know some of my co-hosts have not played with some of the units/commanders we talk about, however, generally I have some experience. Granted not to as much dept equally, but I have used the stuff we talk about. I play a lot of dominions, a lot more than most. I help out people learning all the time and test for other people. Immersion is a great dominions resource I encourage people to use (it’s a discord server) where you can get one on one input from other players. I personally am not a Caelum enjoyer; I don't share your experience or sentiment vs. the nation. Concerning ThunderStrike: Thunderstrike is one of the dom communities most over hyped spells and it is very easy to play around. The strength of the spell is in larger fights and vs. box formation. However, the spell has a lot of downfalls. The most major of which is being Air 3 and costing a shit load of fatigue per cast. It’s 50 fatigue per one strike. The spell also is inaccurate (Precision 2), this means this spell misses a lot. Being highly easy to bait as you mentioned, missing, and costing a lot makes this spell not that good. Also, simply tacking on solutions like line formation goes a long way in making this spell even more ineffective. Unlike Lightning bolt, it’s much better predecessor (although shut down vs. shock res10). This is one of the reasons EA VA and other nations even run Fire/Shock, certainly not for thunderstrike. Let’s comment on the Caelum part. As EA caelum defending a rush, that player would need to use Eagle kings to cast thunderstrike in your example. That is a 395 gold mage that is StR (Slow to recruit). I really doubt you're going to have a lot in this scenario. I also think EA caelum is more scales centric, and there is absolutely no gold in EA ( I always say EA is worst age). I really doubt the viability of caelum to win this match up, especially consistently. It’s for sure easier to play as Van in this scenario. If you remember my comments from the podcast, this is why I think Van is stronger. Easier to pilot, and straight stronger. Hinnom has solid options, but it falls short. It exists in ea where you lack gold. Ea is a rushy landscape where being more efficient with your resources translates better generally. I think it’s a solid nation, but just how the gold is given in this age, I don't think it’s as strong with less resources then other nations. I certainly would put it 'higher' in the pack of all EA nations, but I've never found this nation dominant in any of the lobbies I've personally experienced unlike other EA nations. Helheim, I think, is solid nation. I am kind of coming around to your argument. I certainly don't rate it stronger than TNN, but it’s good. Has strong sacreds, nice magic, and is good all around. Do think Vanherse are better than Hellhirdings in a 1v1, but that's kind of a silly comparison. It does matter though if Van is fighting Helheim, as I think Helheim will struggle to kill Van/Abysia (especially the sacreds with the talked about bless). Helheim lacking water magic really hurts with this consideration (cubes). Hellhirdings have better mobility though. I think if you can design a method of killing the problem sacreds, then it’s a really strong pick. But that's the big IF, you lack an answer for these problem sacreds. I think that is what makes or breaks the nation, especially early game in these match ups.

I killed a Thero with EA Rlyeh, so Thero is obviously not S tier. My god was even slumbering, and his an awake monster. Obviously, it is EA Rlyeh who is S tier.

Having the nation name of "Panagea" causes illwinter to shower you with buffs and incredible cost-effective mages and awesome free tags sprinkled over all your recruitables. Automatic S tier for the most thematically boring nation in the game

banning for scrub reasons is not allowed, ban water nations, ban cubes.

Have they been played by Kyuumann? S-tier. If not, D-tier

What is flexibility of Sceleria builds that makes this S tier? Every strategy is make h1 reanimators to make millions longdead. No one hell blesses the sacred vestal since Dom 4

@yugonostalgia8961

7 ай бұрын

The mages are really solid, plus the troops and gladiators are quite decent. Soul slay & drain life kill most things that can survive 1k+ skeletons. Plus having a whole army of longdead in every province is a kind of flexibility on its own.

@kelva1304

7 ай бұрын

Their holy spell counters elite sacreds. they have glads and decent troops. They don't have a bunch of different strats, but the one they have works against pretty much everything pretty well from start to finish, I think ultralategame they kinda fall off since undead can't take a lot of the really great buffs, but you'll still have bajillions of them to just attack every province every turn.

@lowlife4103

7 ай бұрын

Their powerful mages. I used to think ermor was better, but mid and late game scelaria is much more powerful.

@Something_Clever

7 ай бұрын

Lictors are also a fantastic counter sacred which can take lots of blesses and perform to what they need to

Most jarring thing for me in this episode is ranking Therodos as S while it's literally worst nation of the age (imo). Even if you hate UW as much as you do, why Therodos? it loses not only to all and any landscrubs, but also to all UW nations not dumb enough to fail counter Foul Vapors. Raiding with ghosts is just a joke because any S2, D1, F2 mage could kill entire month freespawn qouta without breaking a sweat. Therodos is also very much relies on coastal forts, so you always have some leverage in diplo with him, while other EA UW nations don't give a flying fuck.

@BrandonTerepka-Applebaum

7 ай бұрын

I think it's literally just how hard it can cockblock a land nation from winning/expanding. I'm not really interested in what the optimal Therodos build is, but imagine dumping all your scales and taking a Kraken with insane magic paths to cast globals like Burden of Time and just be a complete menace to the lobby.

@Sturmratte23

7 ай бұрын

You should probably look into what melias can do, they're honestly rather disgusting.

@SoronMuuch

7 ай бұрын

Melias are a really strong mage if used correctly. If you think the mage is dog, you've probably never played against a player making these dudes hell to play against. Thero being, popkill, and uw is really frustrating. If thero wins the water 1v1, this nation is the worst water nation to have in your game. Ghosts are honestly better raiders than longdead, you don't need a lot per party to attack low pd, making these freespawn a little more cancer than normal skeletons. This is why I don't agree with your comments on effectively killing their ghosts, as they don't need to commit a lot. If the thero player is using large ghost numbers to raid then L O L. Thero also has solid magic, I for sure consider the nation insane if it wins the water fight. Whereas I care less if another water nation wins. However, playing with water nations allowed is always dog and I don't recommend it unless you got some sort of mods to make it bearable.

Ban tournaments.