My problem with these stats is that they all equal to more DPS but with varying amounts of effectiveness, so much that tenacity is mostly obsolete and skill speed is becoming more and more niche depending on the job because of the 2 min burst meta

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Indeed! I think a huge player in why stats all just boil down to "this gives most damage" is partly because none of the stats capable of doing something interesting are allowed to reach a point where that can happen! 🙁

@jordonlegge448

8 ай бұрын

Crit + crit + crit + crit

I wish squenix changed speed somehow. Conceptually it's a very fun stat, it shouldn't be detrimental to stack it

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I agree! I'm not sure how they can change it to be fun and effective without significantly changing how some other aspects of the game works potentially 😥

I think this is why WoW created the Mastery stat, Mastery does something different for every class and spec. Many of them are just damage increases, but some of them are interesting in how they do it, usually applying those increased damage to certain types of damage, like frost death knights deal increased frost damage for each point of mastery, while beast master hunters deal more pet damage. But then you have stuff like outlaw rogues have a chance to trigger an offhand attack that scales damage with mastery, or arms warriors dealing additional damage to targets suffering from their bleeds, so these things do incentivise how you use your abilities. In FF's case perhaps this could be reflected in, say, ninja's trick attack applies a more powerful or longer vuln debuff the more of this stat they have or they deal more damage to enemies affected by their mudras. A paladin's defensive cooldowns are lowered. A bard's repertoires are more likely to proc or maybe even song cooldown is reduced by successful crits. A machinist generates more heat/battery or makes overcharge last longer. These are just ideas off the top of my head, I'm sure someone else could think of better options.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Indeed, I thought a mastery like stat could also be interesting! But I also realized that figuring out a unique effect for it for every job was not easy either! 😅

@ShadowSongg

9 ай бұрын

Enjoy this flow of consciousness from me on this idea I've had the thought of giving each job two different mastery paths. These don't do much in the burst phase, cause any changes in there can lead to run off effects. One I've been playing with in my head is duplicity and venom ninja. Duplicity changes bunshin into a 15 second ogcd (meaning one use per burst) with potencies reduced. And venom ninja giving shadowbite back and each tick of shadowbite gives additional ninki (offsetting difference of ninki generation with PK) make this a very long Dot that can explode like drk salted earth where you can snapshot under buffs to make up for bunshin's interaction during the burst. In this case stacking speed on duplicity nin has more effect making more bunshin affected skills over the course of an encounter (as well as any relevant rotational changes/burst window setup) leaving venom bite being a slow and potent killer. This comes with a LOT of problems like materia setups, encounter balance making job balance exponentially harder and the like, but it lets jobs have more customizability and identity to them. Heck bring some pvp options to the table. One idea I've had for the rdm debate is whether they should be taxed even when prog is over. Give them a light aspect and dark aspect mastery. On dark aspect their verraise gets a CD of 1 minute or so but their dps is marginally higher, enough to at least be on par with smn (give rdm some verlove) TLDR give mastery paths that can interact with stats give materia loadouts add / remove tax on specialisations that give or remove utility k bye~

@cattysplat

9 ай бұрын

Kind of liked WoW's Holy Paladin mastery increasing healing based on how close you are to your target, encouraging paladins to be a melee healer, to go with their short range abilities and large range of melee weapons.

Nice take. Considering the game does not have a talent tree or something similar, I think it would be amazing if they revamped the substats to make at least this aspect of the game be about each player customizing its gameplay and creating different builds with real impact. Right now, unless you're a raider worried about squizing 1 small digit to a dps counter to prevent enrage, sub stats are almost irrelevant and with no real impact, which is something really sad for an MMO/RPG.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Thank you! And yeah that is a good point. And even if you are a raider, it's not like you care that much about the stats, or they affect you in a meaningful way (I mean, aside from make damage number bigger!) ☺️

What if they give the substats additional affects based on role? Like determination gives a slight modifier to tank defense buffs, direct hit gives physical ranged a chance to reduce their cooldowns.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That would be interesting! I suppose this would also allow the removal of role specific stats like tenacity and piety, since they could be merged into other stats 🤔😊 interesting idea!

One of the wisest things I've ever heard that proves to be true over and over again is "Nirvana is not for this world. There are no solutions; only tradeoffs." The tradeoff of boring gearing, substats, and job homogenization is you can play any job you want and win, and you can join any group without being asked to leave or kicked for picking a nonviable job. Not to say we can't complain about it, but I think it's easy to focus too much on what we don't like about the current situation in FFXIV and not realize what the situation COULD be right now AND IS for other MMO's. You can jump ship to another MMO that does gearing/substats/job uniqueness better then FFXIV but be prepared to deal with the problems of that in those games when you do. It's up to the Devs to hear these complaints and rise to the challenge of being creative in addressing these complaints WHILE holding on to their vision of "every job is viable/you can play whatever you want and win". I can't imagine that it's easy but who said balancing an MMO is easy right?

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

A very nice way to put it! Indeed, getting whacky stats would come with it's own issues, and what we have is also not the worst! 😊 In some capacity, admittedly, this video is more about wishful thinking than anything else! I appreciate this perspective! ☺️

@mobius4247

9 ай бұрын

Big and real and true. After being steeped in WoW retail culture for so long, the grass ain't greener over there with it's more "interesting" customization options. While not necessarily gear-related, talents and whatnot are just headaches and you end up in the exact same place as we are here in FF. The only exception being you play X build for X boss and Y build for Y boss.

@jordonlegge448

8 ай бұрын

No the stats are just stupid. No begginer in their right mind is going to think I should just stack crit! If you wanted the game to be begginer friendly you would just have 3 stats health damage and mana. The way stats work is an illusion fake depth meant to trap noobs

Not sure if you left it out for simplicity but in bozja with the bonus gear you can effectively increase skillspeed by a LOT more, it does indeed cap at 1.5s which is a fun way to play mnk. However, if the base is higher than 2.5 you can keep reducing it further. I managed to reduce Six Sided Star to 1.89s recast.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Oh wow, I was aware that it was possible to reduce it significantly in bozja, but I didn't think it was by this much! The reason I left it out was for a combination of simplicity and safety: I wasn't certain if the speed stat versus other speed increases would interact differently so I chose to not consider that option. But thank you for adding the correction! 😊

@f1reman237

9 ай бұрын

Both in bozja and eureka you can get down to 1.5 on monk with the haste stat@@CaetsuChaijiCh . IIRC, haste reduces your gcd by a flat 0.02s per stat. In Bozja you can get 15 haste, and in eureka you can get 12 (Though BIS is 9). thats a reduction of 0.30s and 0.24s respectively.

With a greater focus on damage buffs both personal and in groups, I think some stats that increased the effectiveness or duration of those buffs would be interesting. So you might have a different gear goal with a Bard in the group versus a Machinist. I don't know if that's BETTER, but it's more interesting.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I think it is an interesting idea, I don't know how well it would work, but it does sound interesting! I believe guild wars 2 actually has a stat that affects buff duration 😊

@MrCarlWax

9 ай бұрын

​@@CaetsuChaijiChYup! Concentration that increases boon duration. However gw2 is built to have 100% uptime on their buffs throughout the entire fight

man this makes me miss cleric stance and the old int/mind stat systems, its something II endlessly praised the game for back in the day. There were so many actions that made each class feel unique like esuna on sch being called leeches and the fairies actually being being different depending on which one you had out. now everything is starting to blend together and that makes me endlessly sad. maybe this means less coming from a non savage player but I kinda wish my fun mattered a lil more ig. Great video! I've been having fun learning more ins and outs of the game I've been playing for so long

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Wanting more complexity is a reasonable ask whether you are a savage raider or not 😊 Ultimately savage boss design tends to be built around the complexity of jobs, so as jobs have gotten simpler, allegedly boss fights have become more complex to compensate! Personally I prefer having the job itself have a lot to learn, rather than each fight, so I agree with you on that!

My main issue with speed is that if it were suddenly made good, it'd be reduced to a stat that you accumulate to a very specific number for the sake of hitting a specific target. For example, as someone who primarily plays tank with gunbreaker being my comfort job for difficult content, I find myself exclusively using just enough speed to guarantee I have enough cartages to use double down within every no mercy. When leveling the job, I USED to think "Why wouldn't I want to stack as much speed as I can, more cartages = more burst strikes." now actually HAVING the job at 90 and doing extreme trials as of last week, the job is very different now that I have 3 cartages and Bloodfest gives 3 cartages every 2 minutes. Naturally, if I already have no issue using Gnashing fang every 30 seconds and gnashing fang + double down every minute, it leads to unbuffed burst strikes floating with typically a no mercy burst strike depending on where in my 1-2-3 I stopped to actually use Gnashing Fang. Now the chore of USING these cartages to insure I don't waste any becomes more difficult and then every 2 minutes I have 3 additional cartages for additional burst strikes. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to dump my cartages before the burst window just to keep bloodfest aligned but it wouldn't make a lot of sense to deny three free cartages. Yet, electing to use bloodfest after Gnashing Fang + Double Down results in an inconsistent number of buffed burst strikes anyways due to variance in fights and how tight of a window you have to use a GCD to spend each cartage. Bosses also don't exactly let you stand there and hit them, for one reason or another ALL of those cartages can manage to fall outside of raid buffs that aren't Searing Light or a bard song. If you could manage to use all your cartages in that very tight window there is then a tighter time to produce a cartage to keep Gnashing Fang from drifting from no mercy. If I elect to save a cartage instead of dumping them all to use Gnashing fang, but I could already produce more than enough to use Double Down and gnashing fang each minute, the issue is now that I make too many cartages to comfortably feel consistent in what I'm doing and so far, this is all ignoring whether its worth having all these bonus burst strikes floating about vs simply building the "do more damage" stats This then leads to the thought "If I had more speed, I could use my cartages faster" but you also make cartages faster.. The problem feels somewhat cyclical. If you change how Burst strike specifically scales with speed, then there would be a target value that just lets you use a specific number of burst strikes guaranteed within buff windows. Even If you could give Gunbreaker the choice to use multiple cartages on a single burst strike then bloodfest effectively becomes a refuel after you use a No Mercy "multistrike" to use double down and the rest of your burst effectively making something of a Triple down skill that unintentionally leads to more stockpiling so you could use blood fest during two minute buffs to have a bigger burst rather than rewarding you for the bonus cartages you already made. It's not a very fun way to reward speed. It's a very cyclical issue because having more speed feels very similar to having more than one stack of a skill, although speed can have a value that makes a job comfortable or consistent which is the current personal target value you decide upon. If speed is better or jobs are changed to compensate for players who want a speed build without being mandator then that speed build will simply have a target speed value giving every job two ways to play. It sounds very enticing but then the issue of balance comes into play. If a speed build is worse than the typical more damage build we currently have, skill speed is a more interesting stat that will still be broadly neglected. If speed is better than the current damage stat stacking then every class will just gain an ideal speed value to make room for the "more damage" substats mean hyrbid builds wouldn't really work either in this framework since you either build speed or you don't outside of very specific targets that may just fall short of the classes speed variant potential or just do less meaningful damage than the no speed variant.. but if this hybrid speed/damage build is better than a pure speed build or better than a pure damage build it now becomes the target speed minimum or maximum for that specific job depending on which build it's better than. effectively turning an interesting option into a rather boring requirement and even a draw back since now every bit of speed must be thought about as either a wasted stat or a part of a general target value NEEDED to have a viable amount of speed. Ideally speed and raw damage builds would be equal in value (which still doesn't leave room for hybrid speed/damage builds).. but this doesn't alleviate the fact a speed build would have a target speed which is rather boring, it would still double the current way to play each job but speed then becomes an all or nothing investment. Don't get me wrong, speed is my favorite stat and I wish I could play every job at an incredibly fast pace, I like knowing my number of burst strikes may differ from another gunbreakers but that's a very simple resource. Some jobs with a larger meter can unintentionally treat speed a little like how black mage treated piety depending on how you change resource generation/usage to compensate for speed increasing the number of resource generating skills you could use (Ideally speed would have to lead to every job being able to store more meter to avoid over capping OR meter generating/expending skills would have to change how they interact with your meter depending on your speed to allow you to use a different number of enhanced actions during buffs). Even Dragoon, who's gauge is tied to two oGCD's may end up using more Nastrods and Star Divers than another Dragoon despite taking the same number of oGCD's for those skills to become available. You wouldn't reasonably be able to expect random players in duty finder to have any level of consistency at all despite being the same class. Speed is a very difficult stat to balance but it feels far too neglected for such a unique stat. I'm no game dev so surely there is another way to make speed work.. I also like the feeling of burst and downtime in classes so I also enjoy the two minute buff window and how it gives a base expectation of coordination that is not a specific job to job synergy which would be difficult to keep all jobs viable in all content, however these two things don't exist well together because the only way for speed to be a stat that affects burst windows is if it fundamentally changes how a job interacts with the resources used during their burst since speed as it is only effects how a job preforms overtime for the most part.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Indeed, speed is very difficult to balance 😊 I believe astrologian and black mage are the only jobs in the game that appear to benefit from almost limitless amounts of speed. They do so for slightly different reasons, but the point is that if speed was better (through how jobs benefit from it), then jobs might not necessarily focus on reaching a specific amount of it. But who knows for sure! I still think it is interesting to think about! 😊

@Dragonburn71

9 ай бұрын

You are absolutely correct. I was looking at speed being "better" in a reductive sense as an alternative to crit/direct hit/determination which is the least creative way to think about such a unique stat since it's just making speed "good" without considering what makes it interesting in the first place. I think stats are far more interesting together so it's not the best frame of reference either and more of my nightmare scenario of what could happen if jobs just "did more" the more speed they had rather than interact with the stat in a different way. as I said, speed is my favorite stat, no doubt because it has the potential to make the way you play a class a personal experience and for that reason alone it deserves more love. I'm holding out hope that one day I'll get to play a speedy and graceful red mage

@Noah-gn2gu

9 ай бұрын

I get the principle you’re putting up but you forget that speed is a truly exponential scaling stat. While some jobs may want to hit certain values in a crit build, a true speed build pumps 100% into speed because each increment of speed is exponentially better than the last, *regardless* of alignment. If you go high speed GNB build even this expac, you *have* to press your gnashing fang off CD, even if it reverse drifts outside of raid buffs. The problem is that the return is very bad at the moment. We don’t reach the point where the exponential nature takes off. Crit on the other hand scales ridiculously. You just get so much from crit right now. If crit gave a little less of a buff and speed a little more, there would be a raw crit build, a raw speed build, and multiple threshold builds. And because subs are minor differences in FFXIV, each will be viable. So it becomes a comfort thing, something already accepted by meta. Further, each *job* will have different speed break points and will play vastly different based on their respective mechanics. And that *diversity* would drastically change how interesting stats are, rather than “max crit.” Especially when you add in the fact that each raid tier may make different builds more or less viable due to gear being restricted to what’s available.

I think if Stats tied into each other we good find an interesting solution. Like why can't the Class Specific Stats actual Boost everything as well fulfill a niche or benefit from the other Stats being boosted. What if when you go to a Certain Piety Number you also get more Crits? At the moment my initial reaction is that Stats are just too simple

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That is an interesting idea, to have certain bonuses or pay offs when you have certain amounts of stats! 😊

My first thought is to massively buff the scaling of the stats and massively nerf the potency of abilities. Lots of play testing would be needed to calibrate the values so as to maintain balanced gameplay, but that would be a very easy and simple solution. These substats are not hard to understand, so teaching new players about them shouldn't pose much of an issue. Also, maybe make crit just affect crit chance and direct hit be crit damage.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That is a very interesting solution certainly! Separating crit chance and crit damage might put it more in line as well yeah 🤔☺️

Good analysis. One thing I think they should do, which is already coded into the game, is to combine spell speed and skill speed into one stat and call it haste. We’ve seen it in stuff like bozja gear. Why can’t they just put it in the game? Do you think it would help jobs like drk and pld? Or would it throw off balance issues? Interested to hear what you think

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I absolutely agree they should just combine them, and I am not entirely sure why it has not been done yet 😅 For drk, I think it will be a mild convenience if nothing else, since it only really affects their sustained aoe damage. For paladin, it might lead to a similar relationship with speed that gunbreaker has, where you can go slightly faster and get an extra gcd in your burst. I don't think it would break much, but it would make paladins be less annoyed by speed on their equipment 😊 that's what I think at least!

Since we're finally talking about all the Substats at once, I can finally post my idea about how I'd like to see substats work. I'll be honest, it's more fanfiction then anything concreate but it was fun to think about: Critical Hit Rate: Increases the chance of a critical hit, Critical Damage is set 150%. Some abilities have a higher critical damage value, while some buffs increase Critical hit rate Direct Hit: Direct Hits now trigger after X amounts of Weapon skills or Spells (I'd have it vary per job or by job category), Direct Hits deal 120% damage. And the Direct Hit Stat increases Direct Hit Damage. Direct Hits could also trigger special effects that grant buffs or resources. Or some jobs could have skills in their rotations that cause their next Attack(s) (Sidenote, I'd have it that attacks either Critical Hit or Direct Hit but not both.) Determination: Damage and Healing bonus to Spells and Abilities (Mainly to oGCDs) (Was thinking of Determination also increasing Critical Damage as well but decided to keep it simple for now) Haste: Reduces GCD and Ability Cooldowns. Could reduce shorter cooldowns ( 30s or less) by half, While longer cooldowns could be reduced by 15-30s. How do you program that? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Tenacity: Increases damage of Weapon skills and Abilities (Only stat that does both other then crit), Provides damage reduction to all classes, but a greater reduction to tanks and gives each tank a unique defensive benefit. Here are just some ideas. -Paladin: Increased Block Rate and/or Block Damage Reduction -Warrior: Bonus Health Regeneration from Abilities -Dark Knight: Grants HP Siphon to Attacks or damage reduction based on Blood Gauge -Gunbreaker: Damage reduction when using a cartridge. Piety: MP Cost Reduction & Increases the effectiveness of MP restoring abilities. (This would be paired with an increase in MP costs for most spells and it would be open to all classes), Piety could also have special benefits for healers. But since most of my experience is with scholars, I couldn't come up with good ideas for the other three. This is leaving out what I would do to primary stats.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

A lot of interesting ideas! 😊 One that sticks out to me especially is direct hit being essentially a guaranteed bonus every few strikes. Depending on how predictable it is, that could lead to very awkward rotations, since you'd want a stronger attack to get this benefit!.. Or would you, since maybe it's better to leave the opportunity to crit available 🤔 Very interesting!

How to make the stats interesting? Determination- Chance of not using the cooldown of an attack ability Tenacity- Chance of not using the cooldown of a mitigation ability Piety- Add chance of casting spells for free on top of the MP regen Speed- Reduces cooldowns of abilities as well Direct Hit- Applies a job-specific debuff on proc in addition to the bonus damage Crit can stay as it is, as the pure 'big numbers go BRRR' option, but I think these alterations could make all the stats alter playstyles in different ways, and allow for multiple viable build focuses for a lot more jobs than the current design.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Those are certainly some interesting adjustments! I can already envision the insanity when a big cooldown procs determination back to back, but that's beside the point! We are talking what would be interesting here disregarding balance for a second 😅

@Nazuiko

9 ай бұрын

I love the concept, but introducing more RNG is always worse than removing it. Though, if theres no knock-on effects regarding changes to things like that, casting Rampart for free and then having it back up at the end of its duration does sound super nice! Or perhaps your ability that normally uses a resource is "refunded". But to do something like that without the RNG attached so players can trust their buttons better, what if instead of a cooldown reset chance it just gave a reduction to it, or in the case of tenacity, increased duration. e.g., a certain level of tenacity meant you could get Rampart's duration increased from 20s to 28, potentially mitigating 3 extra autos, and Determination reducing its cooldown from 90s to 72s; Together you go from 22.2% uptime to 38.9%!

It's not that stacking speed tends to be detrimental, per se. Even jobs that drift from it will tend to do more damage with more speed in a vaccuum. The issue just comes back around to other stats scaling harder for most jobs. When all stats boil down to "do more damage", the only question becomes "okay, but which one does the most damage?" Speed would scale for most jobs more competitively if it also affected oGCDs. The inherent problem here, however, is that reducing the cast time of oGCDs would cause job buffs to drift, which could result in an actual rDPS decrease unless every raid member were synced to the same speed. Not good. However, a little known fact is that SpS already increases DoT damage. While I'm no dev, I do wonder if updating the skill to also scale oGCD damage would be a welcome change.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Indeed. I think the detrimental part is moreso a personal thing: if your rotation doesn't benefit that much from speed, but it messes you up because it makes your rotation feel wrong, then it becomes more detrimental than helpful. If speed boosted damage of abilities, that might actually be an interesting way to go about it! 🤔😊

My honest opinion is that you can never avoid crit/crit dmg in games and for games like FF its ok that they are nothing too crazy. But DH and DET are just over the top needless. I would rather have base stats back to being also in materia slots, bring up power of speed, tenacity and piety and let people go ham. (balance it after you see how player base abuse what after a while)

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

You are probably right yeah 😊 It would certainly be nice if we perhaps had fewer different stats but they were more meaningful!

I would really love it if they incorporated a more class-oriented stat into the game, something like the mastery stat from wow. For those who don't know, it's basically like each class has a unique effect tied to it and increasing the mastery stat increases those effects. For example: Holy Priests apply a heal-over-time with their direct heals (think Cure 1 or 2), this healing starts at a base percentage of the healing amount and increases per mastery point, something like this could be very easily tied into White Mage while still fitting the class design of being the "pure-healer". Or for another example, Outlaw Rogues have a static 30% chance to strike the target an additional time when they attack, this damage of this additional attack is based on your mastery. Imagine what a mastery/speed focused monk or maybe even samurai build would look like! I dunno maybe I'm just rambling at this point, but I really love this game and I currently hate the design direction that theyre choosing by constantly wanting to lower the skill floor to make it more accessible to everyone when they've got a dedicated pool of players who've been playing for well over 2-3 years and feel lile the game gets a bit stale once youre at that point. For those who are curious I've currently got 182 days and 10 hours or 4,378 hours according to /playtime

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Indeed, I've also thought mastery would be an interesting way to make stats more interesting! I also realized coming up with unique and interesting, while still actually helpful, effects for the stat for every job was really difficult! For example, because of how attack focused healers are in ffxiv, a healer mastery that only benefits your healing would be considered unhelpful, so an effect like the one holy priest has would either need to come along with a damage bonus, or also add damage over time to attacks in a way 🤔

To make the stats more interesting will require un-homogenizing the jobs, and making rotations have a priority element instead of being static.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I don't think this is true necessarily, but if we went away from these really set in stone rotations that are prevalent on some jobs, it would certainly open the door for more interesting stats potentially 😊

@RicardoSantos-oz3uj

9 ай бұрын

The reason homogenization is a thing is that it lowers the time needed to check for balance. Is a developer friendly thing. Not a player fun thing. It benefits Square. but it doesn't benefit the player base.

@dylansim9365

9 ай бұрын

@@RicardoSantos-oz3uj Yup. Designing to homogenize make balance easy on them and not taking any design risks that could be interesting for the player base has been the go-to method for Square. From stats to class design to the gearing system. Having more stat interactions in the rotations goes a huge way to making them interesting. Some ideas: Make the amount of meter that any job with a meter gets scale with a substat. Make some combo actions only available after a crit or dh. Make some cooldowns shorter or even reset if the ability crits or dhs. Of course all of this undermines the strict control that Square wants over job performance. Edit: looking back. Some of the jobs actually do have these mechanics, they're just not tied to crit/dh but a static percentage

@Nazuiko

9 ай бұрын

@@RicardoSantos-oz3uj It does benefit the player base, by making it easier to play multiple jobs. Every job wants crit, so If I want to play a job im unfamiliar with, I know to prioritize gear with crit on it. most jobs use a 1-2-3 combo Tanks have a personal mit on top of Rampart (role action), an AoE mit that grants magic defense specifically for two of them (gunbreaker/DRK), a way to heal themselves typically as part of said 1-2-3 combo, and then 2 filler mitigation tools, and a burst combo/finisher move, often connected to your gauges. This style of tank design means that not only can I gear one tank and play all 4 rather intuitively, even a DPS player can pick up a tank and figure out how to do a rotation. This idea of "getting DPS players to try tanks" is exactly why both tanks released since ARR are DPS jobs in a blue cape; Dark knight and Gunbreaker are built from the ground up to feel like a DPS job on purpose, Sage is a laser shooting DPS in a green robe on purpose.

@imperiallarch7610

8 ай бұрын

@@Nazuiko I'm not sure what the point is of encouraging players to play multiple jobs if all the jobs in a given role are fairly similar. Wouldn't I be more likely to try new jobs if I thought they would offer different capabilities to expand my repertoire? (That's a hypothetical; I'm the kind of player who eventually levels everything for completion's sake anyway, so I don't need an incentive, but I imagine some people do.)

One thing I wish was possible, but don't even know if it ever could be, is that optimization doesn't always come down to do more damage. It's always damage. Higher damage means more optimized. I hate it. But I don't think you can even make a game like this without that always being the best option all the time. I'm not a developer, nor am I smart enough to think of a solution, but I really really would like to live in a world where things other than damage could be considered optimal I wonder what would happen if there was absolutely no way to increase damage output in this game other than your level and skill. Any substat would be utility and nothing contributing to damage. That also means skill/spell speed

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I agree. I feel like at some point, we just discovered that optimizing damage is always optimal somehow. It's in ffxiv, and in most other games. It's quite dull once you realize it 😕

I think there are 2 options to make stats more interesting. 1. Crit and direct hit procs in job design. I'd lean towards mostly direct hit procs just cause crit is already so much better than everything else but both would be an improvement. 2. Abilities that scale with specific stats. A healer ability that scales with piety, a tank cooldown that works off tenacity, something for determination, any of these would do a lot to make stats more interesting though I doubt SE would add these as they've very careful scaling going on. But like, even just a defensive CD that came back faster with your tenacity or maybe on hit with better scaling tenacity would do a lot

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

The second one I think is very interesting because at the very least, it could make different stat builds emphasize different parts of your toolkit! 😊

I really love your sub-stat videos. The game does such a bad job of communicating what my stats actually do, so I appreciate how you lay it out. I pretty much agree - none of the sub-stats are terribly exciting though. I want tenacity to feel good on my tanks. I want piety to not feel like an empty slot when it's on half of my healing gear. I want speed to not feel weird and awkward. But that being said, I'm still pretty okay with simple sub-stats. While I wouldn't mind them being more fun, I wouldn't want to swing so far the other way that I couldn't play SMN until I'd collected a full SPS set or something.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Thank you so much! 😄 Yeah that is a very good point. Others also mentioned that having super boring stats that don't do much makes it a lot easier to balance, leading to jobs being more viable and closer to each other, which would be another risk if stats were made more impactful I suppose!😅

One small addition on Piety; The single biggest reason it's absolutely worthless is that every healer has at LEAST one, and often two or more, MP recovering utilities in their kit. Lucid Dreaming alone recovers like 3-4kmp on a 60 second timer, per second on average that's 50-66mp/s, a third or so of a max piety build. Sage has Addersgall expenditure, Astrologian gets MP back by using cards, Iirc WHM has something too- Not sure about scholar. And the encounters are built such that just by using lucid and your class mechanics, you never NEED piety- So it's just completely superfluous.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Very true. Optimally, you rarely ever need to cast the big healing spells that cost mp. And with that as mentioned, the weakest mp recovery healer has tools that amount to the equivalent of over 6000 piety worth of on demand extra mp 😅 Piety absolutely was set up to fail in some ways 😣

@cattysplat

9 ай бұрын

WHM has assize which restores %mana on use and thin air with 2 charges allowing a free spell cast. They also have the lowest mana cost on attacking spells.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

@cattysplat glare, Dia and holy have the same cost as the equivalent attacking spells for the other healers 🤔 at lower level with stone and aero that is of course a different story 😊

I probably commented the same thing on the Tenacity video, but if thats correct then here we go again: Tenacity is a fanastic stat, and every tank should build it .... if it actually scaled at ALL. It, and speed, are so abysmally slow and expensive to scale to decent levels they feel - or are - completely useless. I have to struggle and dedicate entire builds for 6% (0.15 seconds lmao) cooldown reduction? And half of my skills dont even BENEFIT? Ive played so many games where things like 20% cast/CD reduction was normal on a *SINGLE* piece of equipment. If I could get even say, 24% Haste, reducing Geirskogul's cd to 22.8s, thats not suddenly super broken but it is drastically different from someone who prioritized det over speed. And it means I get 45.6s charge times on Spineshatter dive, or 2 casts ever 91.2seconds - and Dragonfire Dive would have the same duration for a cooldown. Not only does Speed have negligible output in terms of % reduction, but it affects very few actions, and I dont understand *why*. "Well, because its SKILL speed, it effects weaponSKILLS, not spells or abilities!" Yes but *WHY* is it so specific, it doesnt have to be. Know what I learned from playing a game that could reach NINETY FIVE percent? That 5% is still a lot. 360 second cooldown reduced by 95%? You could use it over and over, its a -- Still 18 second cooldown actually. Im really hoping that Dawntrail shakes up substats a little bit. I dont expect major changes, but if they reworked Accuracy into Direct Hit and removed elemental resistances and Slashing/Blunt/etc. affinity, they can adjust the stats again. CBU3 doesnt have to - and shouldnt - keep the stat system the same as it was for the last 5 years by the time 7.0 comes out.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Indeed, and honestly the stats might not need to be adjusted that much to lead to some more interesting results! 😊

The only changes I want is to make Direct Hit DPS only, make Piety do what it does now AND what Direct Hit does but only for healers, and Tenacity treated the same way but only Tanks. I don't want whacky melds that are niche for one job since jobs share gear, I already despise SPS Black Mage for that reason. (Which is why I think the new caster is gonna be spell speed and they are either going to move BLM to share gear with it, or at least give you a reason to have 2 sets of Casting Gear.) Also, the reason why melds are only really ever gonna be about damage...is because that's all that is needed. No fight is going to ever require you to have X materia to do a fight, whether it's about being more survivable (it sucked putting in VIT stats/melds in ARR), not to mention Accuracy just to HIT the boss consistently.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I should underline that while melds matter for damage gains, a much greater part of your substats come from the gear itself, so I can see how stats being highly impactful could be really annoying if you get a gear upgrade with an effect you find annoying (like how some jobs hate finding speed on their gear for instance!)

Meaningful choices are the backbone of RPGs. Traditionally speaking, western studios have focused more on putting said choices in their narratives, whereas eastern ones have focused more on putting the choices in their character/mechanical systems (owing to their roots in Wizardry). As far as FXIV goes, BLU is probably the only job with any meaningful choices to make, and only because of its spellbook... As long you keep up with level and item level (excepting minute differences from materia) , you're basically an identical replaceable cog: none of your decisions mean anything. You end up at the exact same spot in the narrative, with near identical stats, with identical skills, with identical strategies in combat, with NPCs that at most include a throwaway line to something you did ages ago if their scripts deviate to acknowledge it at all. Not that I really expect different from square, but it's like they forgot to put the RPG in their MMOJRPG.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I suppose the combination of simplification and optimization has led to a situation where the player character is either precisely as strong as everyone else in the army, or weaker. Which is a bit strange in a game that visually allows you to be so unique 🤔

They need to find a way to make different jobs interact differently with the substats, one could simply not be able to crit and instead converts the stat into more determination or speed. Or to make things more fun, get rid of the current stats aside from speed and make new more interesting ones like leech so people that like to try soloing old raids of doing Deep Dungeons solo could get extra self-healing as a DPS.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That would be a very interesting way to go about it yeah! Honestly, if certain jobs just have some sort of synergy with specific stats, that would be interesting for me at least! The leech Stat does sound like fun! 😊

Maybe they could package the dps stats together into one stat, like tenacity and piety are role locked. and perhaps combine the speed stats for an action speed stat or something. This way the specific roles could have a stat that interacts with what they are doing more effectively. The hard part would be Blue Mage's mimicry, currently it is always a dps as a base, perhaps let mimicry allow it to forgo or ignore this theoretical "dps stat" to tap into the mimicked role stat (perhaps to a lesser degree) for something interesting to play into grouping with multiple jobs. Either that or revive the old primary stat materia or assignable stat points again. Unless they were to overhaul it all completely which I think they wouldn't do.

I've mentioned it on another video comment before, but I personally think that the best thing they could do is just remove gear stats and use automatic scaling. Focus on alternative reward structures. But as I think that is extremely unlikely, I think the next best option would be to be considerably less conservative with the stats. The problem being that their encounter and job design is extremely tight. So it really comes up to a decision point between fine-tuned balance - the upsides of which are allowing, for the most part, all jobs to be valid for progression at the cost of feeling stale and underwhelming - and looser balance with more impactful secondary stats - which would allow for potentially more player agency as new build types open up, but would upset that balance, which can have many downstream negative effects. At the end of the day I just don't think that FFXIV is a game that holds that much stock in allowing players mechanically interesting "build" choices. It would take basically an entire restructuring of the game from top to bottom to change that. And honestly I don't think that it needs to be that, because it seeks to do a specific thing, and it does that thing well. The developers recognize that MMO players will, at the end of the day, seek to optimize their characters. This goes from the boring simplicity of the secondary stat design, to the 2 minut meta - something I think might be doing more harm than good, sure, but even if we went back to the old ways people would still seek to create those burst windows. And by that logic, even if they raised the impact of secondary stats, I don't believe that they are interesting enough on their own to really believe that things would not just lead to people trending toward the meta. I think my problem is less with the stats on equipment than the reward structure in general, if I'm being completely honest. The game has remarkable freedom in comparison to others to play multiple jobs on one character (as opposed to the usual structure of one character, one class), but they have an archaic weekly reward cap that makes gearing multiple jobs in a timely manner unfeasible, and by the time those limitations are raised the current expansion is basically already over and the new one is on the horizon. I've felt the game has needed a shakeup for several expansions, but it doesn't happen. Which is a bit disappointing, but not a deal breaker for me.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I agree that many of the weird limitations in gearing now are really silly, like the weekly amount. And given how unimpactful it feels to get new gear, at least to some, it feels almost pointless to farm item levels essentially. But I think part of this delicate balance is that we have seen the community toss aside content immediately if it doesn't grant a meaningful reward. Yes, they could add more cosmetics and the like, but I am guessing the weekly gear grind is intended to keep the players occupied until they have cooked up some more stuff 😅 it's a weird conundrum!

Having come from WoW, where the substats are busted as hell and balance is a goddamn nightmare that results in dead classes, I'll take substats that are boring and could use adjustments to make them more usable, than running simulations as to what the highest DPS would be with a given set up. I can't go back to the days of comparing two pieces of gear and asking whether haste or crit would result in higher damage, when both stats also determine how fun the classes is to play when haste makes you able to fight at any reasonable pace and crit activates abilities. (Monk being the only one to get an ability trigger off a crit is more than fine by me, especially when they can guarantee a crit) You don't want skill speed to be capable of lowering the GCD to 1.5, or crit to go to 85%, or tenacity to block 30% damage... Because then the devs adjust to those levels, as do the players, and everything gets significantly worse if you *aren't* at those levels. The start of every Warcraft expansion has the player blowing through the first level, and gradually getting weaker and weaker as the stats start leaving the scaling range, until suddenly you are max level and starving for haste so you can play the game. You do not want these eggs. The only stat I could accept that would be more relatively fun would be like, a stat that increases ability RNG proc chance by a certain percentage every time the chance is rolled to guarantee a proc eventually/proc more often, which'd be like the Monk's ability but not leave people lacking it feel like the game is so based around it that it is unplayable without it.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That's a fair argument 😊 As I also came from wow, I typically focused on the feeling of how awesome it feels when your build does something silly and ridiculous, which oftentimes I felt could be done very early in the gearing process. However, I do agree that it sucks to go back to "meh" mode with a new expansion because all the effects from your gear starts over in that sense. Ultimately, I don't know what works best, I just wish substats were a bit more impactful of course 😊

As a Tank I should have a lot of Tenacity to reduce the damage I tak- nope, crit > det. Ok then as a Healer I should have a decent amount of Piety so I can have more mana to- no, crit > det, maybe direct crit too. What if I want to have a quicker GCD- not good, specially on bad ping, try crit > det instead. Everything is Crit, Det and Direct hit once both of the previous ones hit the cap on gear.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Yeah pretty much, it is quite predictable 😕

I stopped playing the game a while ago but since I started back in Gordias, I always detested how I couldn't take Sks as drg without feeling bad. My dream solution has always been for sks to affect autoattack speed and the cooldown for all abilities, and having a slider in your character screen that let's you trade sks effects. That way if you are more comfortable with or a fight plays better to a certain speed you can just change your gcd to be slower or faster and in return you get the opposite autoattack speed+dot damage. As for det and dhit in comparison to Crit, I don't know how to fix dhit because it really is just crit 2 electricless boogaloon't. But for det you could also add the effect of changing damage variance. Rn it is 5% i think, maybe increase it a bit and make it so det also transfers variance percentage from the lower to the higher side so at the end of the tier you could end up with 1% down 9% up for example. Or just remove stats all together, just make jobs more fun to play at high level while keeping the floor low as all hell *shrug*

the old AST card Arrow used to increase the targets speed, quite significantly too. you could very easily push a MNK to the 1.5s limit and it was FUN AS FUCK.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I heard that monks hated it because it would also run their tp completely dry back in heavensward! 🤣

@manbearpigsereal

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh I was MNK main and I loved it, you'd have to find places to use Purification (300 TP restore) and NIN needed to goad on cd.

While I agree that the current substats are boring and barely worth paying attention to, more interesting stats come with a bunch of risks. The most obvious one is of course balance: If stats are different enough to create different playstyles within a job, the playerbase is going to want their preferred playstyle to be comparable to other playstyles of the same job, effectively creating several sub-jobs. When all stats feel the same this isn't an issue. Balance wise there might also be some odd build that manages to outperform expected metrics, which solving might fuck over other builds or jobs. There's also the gearing issue: either all jobs that share gear need to require the same substats or you need to create even more gear to accomodate them. It probably means they'll add more more chance based effects (when you crit/when you land a hit) which while I would enjoy as I liked and kinda miss the whack-a-mole playstyle of some wow builds does make the game slightly less accomodating for some players, and meshes poorly with current encounter design as it adds even more things you need to pay attention to. And it creates a system which invites players to "solve it", and makes it possible to build "wrong" more than you can today, which may bring with it an increase in elitism and expectation to stay up to date with forum discussions for your build and job. I played WoW for years and it struggled a lot with these pitfalls, and while I really liked it's gameplay (before it started going downhill) I don't think it's the right direction for FFXIV.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Fair point! I just want to highlight the part where you said that if there were builds that lead to different play styles, people would want their play style to be comparable to others: we already have this. We already have certain jobs where some players go full blast on speed because they like it like that. We have dragon kick monks. We have iceman samurai. In fact, while a dying breed, we almost certainly still have atonement dropping paladins. And some of them are complaining their style isn't as viable as the "norm" 😅 so limiting creativity because it might lead to this, seems pointless since players will find creativity even in the silliest ways, if there is nothing else! 😅 Anyway, you are probably right that adding synergistic effects to chance based effects, in greater amount, might just lead to really random rotations, that deviate too far from what ffxiv wants to be 🤔😊

I feel like a lot games have very boring stats. Even in GW2, where 100% crit chance on power builds is almost mandatory and cooldown reduction on all classes is assumed in all party comps, stats generally are just "get more of the thing your class does to be as good at it as you can be". Most interesting stuff comes from party wide buffa, but with those being assumed be up 100% of the time I don't think it's even that interesting in that regard. I think that if you want stats to be interesting then you need temporary spikes that adjust your stats, like doing a skill combo to ramp up your crit chance so your biggest hit can be a crit. Keeping stats at flat values throughout a fight doesn't seem like it will ever make them matter that much.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That is an interesting point! Personally I think what could make stats more interesting also would be if, for example, some jobs had an interaction with direct hits or crits. Like how monks do, but maybe in a slightly more impactful way! But you are right that even though gw2 has significantly more impactful stats, it all just becomes spread sheets in the end. In my experience in gw2, which admittedly didn't include the highest difficulty content, you could absolutely feel the difference in the gear you had though! 😊

@TFalconwing

9 ай бұрын

You're right, gear matters a lot in GW2. But in general your options are "power DPS gear that gets you 100% crit chance", "condi dps gear that gets you 100% condition uptime on your primary condition", "support dps that gives you 100% uptime on quickness/alacrity", and "support healer that gives 100% boon duration". Your tank may swap on some minstrel or givers pieces for toughness. Other options, like celestial stats, have niche application. Most other stats are essentially unused and have no active or engaging interactions in pve. The interesting interactions come from your skill trees, which ff14 doesn't have.

Spell and Skill speed are fun stats! After all, Samurai, Monk, and Ninja are fun classes because they can go fast. The issue being is speed isn't strong enough right now and yeah, it takes far too much sacrifice past a certain point. As for the rest.. they seem like routine stats to do with performance. Tenacity and Piety need buffs; but maybe xiv could benefit from making them part of "secondary substats" - optional stats that won't impact damage but have other benefits more in line with personal preferences and comfort (wow has this system i think it was lifesteal,aoe reduction,move speed and something else). That way any fun the stats have don't absorbed into meta optimization, which square inevitably will keep reinforcing with content tuning.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Indeed! In wow they have tertiary stats that typically randomly are added to gear at times when they drop. And its usually stats that are entirely defensive! 😊 It might help, but I wonder what would be a good way to distribute such stats in ffxiv!

the only time jobs had a different build was the 1st tier of Stormblood when dh first came out, the stat was stronger than crit on many job, if i remember correctly sam and blm played full speed and dh ; bard and monk played full crit to proc the spell and all other job hab different repartition of the stat, ninja played with all 3 stat equal, drg focul a little monre on crit ect, but it was the only time where you have such a disparity for the build

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I do remember this! Because of the amount of stats early in the expansion, crit couldn't quite reach the break point where it overtook direct hit in value. Except for the jobs that had synergy with it!

Im a scholar and ignore det completely as i can just recitation for shields and det is on most crit gear anyways. Wish there was more reason for me as a healer to go over the det softcap but there is really none. Doing some calculations with etro. Im currently running crit gear with the tome wep, and then only melding DH on every piece. But I wanted to see what i could do to up the healing since dh doesnt affect healing. Det still sucks but it seems i can stil squeeze a whopping 4% extra healing with max det and also beef up shields with crit a little if i avoid piety and sps melds 🧐 Difs between max DH meld en max Det meld (inc. appropriate foodbuffs of dragonfruit vs eggplant): Crit multiplier: 161.2 vs 163.2 Crit rate: 26.2% vs 28.2% Det multiplier: 111.1 vs 115.3 DH rate: 25.9% vs 0%

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I'm assuming when you say det soft cap that you mean enough to get max value out of a food buff 😊 Outside of some super specific niche situation, you can generally ignore the healing benefit of det, as it will not change the amount of healing abilities or spells you need to cast 😊 I would recommend going with direct hit

@lostaname64

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh yeah, the dh does more damage overall according to etro, and that is despite the randomness of getting crits/direct hits/direct crits. It would have been more interesting imo, if there was a reason for any role to invest in that stat. Because now people only invest it for stable numbers on a speed build like blm and ast. As a healer it could have been nice to actually have more control over your stats rather than having to choose between damage and damage, and have a stat have more impact on healing done as stats do for damage. But I realise that the game is not designed for something indepth/min-maxing like that.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

@lostaname64 i talk about this more in this video on determination and direct hit: kzread.info/dash/bejne/o5Z-xpiIms28oJs.html Determination actually scales very very slightly better than direct hit, so in a vacuum it would be better. The reason you see tanks and healers stack direct hit instead is because stats boost the effectiveness of each other because of how numbers add together mathematically, so the fact that direct hit and determination are almost equal in effectiveness means that optimally you want to have only slightly more determination than direct hit if everything were to be perfect. The problem is that direct hit is never found on tank and healer gear naturally, so direct hit tends to have massive problems reaching determination even with a lot of investment for this reason 😊 How they affect each other is that, since determination increases all of your damage, it makes the damage of your direct hits bigger by increasing the base number. Direct hits in turn improve the value of determination by giving the direct hit chance, which gives a chance to get more value out of your determination. Obviously crit beats both of them because of scaling though 😅

@lostaname64

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh I never connected det with dh in that way, even if it should be obvious that det increases the baseline damage of dh and crit because of what it is. I will check that vid later as I do like theorycrafting. 👍🏻

Direct hit being better than accuracy is kinda not true IMO. It's expected on every DPS and they balance stuff around substats so it BASICALLY functions as "you didn't get a direct hit, so your expected damage output is less". You could think the same of critical hit too, really. Every hit that's not a crit or direct is contextually as bad as a miss. They've made it FEEL less like a slap in the face because a number pops up, but if you don't get any you're probably not gonna hit a tight DPS check on new content (we found that out in P8S).

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I suppose it's comparable to how things like "rested exp" used to be marketed as your character being tired and getting half exp when the effect ran out. Rested exp is the same idea, just twisted as a bonus instead 🤔 I guess it relates in the way that, if you don't get enough direct hits, it could be just as bad as missing a few too many times. Overall I feel for the average player direct hit feels less bad though 😅

@Scerttle

9 ай бұрын

Honestly I think having hard hitting attacks that smash the tank make a lot of sense. Think of Dun Scaith and how much healers have to work on Diabolos Hollow. Every second or third hit is basically a tank buster. Imagine if there was a raid encounter that was like that. Healers would potentially need piety to keep up and tanks would need tenacity to soften the blow.

@Scerttle

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh You're probably right, and it IS mentally an improvement. But in practice it kinda sucks and isn't a bonus anymore... but you've talked about that in another video lol

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

@Scerttle the dun scaith example is very good! I've thought about the same thing! My concern in that regard is that we might risk swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction, and suddenly you need extremely high amounts of tenacity and / or piety to make things work. But that is of course also a bit of a doomsayer perspective, surely there is a middle ground! 😊

@Scerttle

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh You're right, but even if it swung wildly in that direction for one raid tier at least it would change things up a bit and make things less braindead IMO

I have never seen any FF struggle so much with stats, although XIV is an MMO, and since I haven't played XI, I can't speak for that game. Stats to manipulate have generally been max hp, max mp, physical damage, magic damage, physical defense, magic defense, luck/crit, agility (skill/spell speed), accuracy (hit chance), and evasion. And increasing any of these have never been detrimental in other FF games (unlike with XIV's sks/sps). Hit chance shouldn't come back, of course, but we could stick with mp regen and maybe consider manipulating hp regen as well. We could keep direct hit, but determination is redundant and should just be the strength/magic damage stat. Speaking of which, I think dexterity and mind should be removed and just replaced with strength and intelligence (I think the only jobs that make it wonky are MCH and BRD because you don't really muscle your way into shooting harder, but most RPGs do this for simplicity, anyway). For jobs dealing both physical and magic damage, their gear could simply boost both (i.e. PLD, NIN). And scaling should be completely fixed: i.e. +15 sks at level 1 should function identically as +15 sks at level 90; then, gear can be rebalanced accordingly. When leveling up, we can continue to omit increasing sks/sps, but all the other stats should incrementally improve imo, that way a lvl 90 wearing lvl 60 gear still hits harder than a lvl 60 wearing lvl 60 gear (without level sync)... although of course a player shouldn't be wearing lower level gear in the first place.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That is an interesting point! I want to add that the reason why stats scale in requirements as you level up is naturally so that gear can have meaningful amounts of stats even at low level, so that as item level improves throughout an expansion, you see improvements. But I imagine that we could find a way to make this interesting in a different way 😊

A couple of things Sch/Sage both benefit off of crit for their bigger shields Sch/smn used to benefit off of crit more in heavenward cause if the pet crit it lowers their cast and recasting time. AST also has spellspeed builds thats actually does more damage then crit builds it also makes their hots stronger while not taking the negative effects of high spell speed cause the job doesnt have much of a burst.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Astrologians optimal builds with heavy amounts of speed still prioritize crit higher😅 but you're right that there is at least one job left that likes speed quite a bit! You're right that I forgot the crit synergy that sch and sge have. However, both of these jobs would still prioritize crit for the damage benefit in the same way monk does, even if this synergy didn't exist 🤔

@tonyike8451

9 ай бұрын

@CaetsuChaijiCh now yes crit is favored cause crit is strongest in the last tier. But the first tier some ast had more spell speed than crit

The problem is the more interesting you make stats, the more variables you add that take away balance, or at least ease for the dev team to keep that balance. But unfortunately this makes stats very boring, there's no interesting interactions. In wow I would stack haste, which many times was the best stat, but even when it ceased to be I preferred playing faster so I would favour it where I could. I mained Monk this tier in FF14 so I did need sks but its not the more the better, its start your gearset with this amount and trade out pieces while keeping that amount.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That is true 😅 i suppose i have a hope that the dev team can make the stats a bit more interesting or impactful while still keeping things somewhat balanced 😊

this is a very clear example as to why i wish we *could* just slot whatever hell stats we wanted but, even more annoying and boring, even though all these starts are kinda really boring, outside of make number go big, all the endgame content is *built* around maxing stats like Crit, DH, and Det, at least in Release Windows. Which is so sad. Ultimately, while I love the way that classes do not necessarily have variety like other mmos (like talent trees or etc), the ability to be just as functional if I wanted to slot all speed materia to be slightly different would be cool, but just.... isnt really possible.

@QueerSupervillain

9 ай бұрын

that being said, i think it would be nice if the scaling would allow for just, even, slightly more benefit. like, even 5% more as a cap would be fantastic. 5% more speed vs what we can get now at max slot would mean tanks could go nyoom, not just Monk or SAM. 5% more damage reduction out of Tenacity means the Tank Privilege joke could really be stretched and extended in silly ways. Stuff like that. Not crazy, but enough

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Yeah I agree. I gave a slightly over exaggerated example to underline a point, but if stats just stretched slightly further, that might just be enough to make it interesting!

Imo, in RPGS (table-top and crpgs), you have systems that are called "crunch-heavy". Think Path of Exile and the enormous skill tree system they have. Or Pathfinder ("Mathfinder") if you want a TTRPG example. Players who like crunch gravitate towards this because it offers huge customization for their character. FF14 isn't this type of game. It's designed to be simple for players to understand gearing up their character, BUT, maybe more importantly, it let's the DEVS balance the jobs and game encounters QUICKER and EASIER. FF14 is more interested in telling its STORY then anything else. If you want an RPG where you can actually BUILD your character, this isn't it. You would need to change the fundamental game to do that. But, off the top of my head, a solution I would add is "Talent Trees", rather then change the fundamental stats. This way, you could still keep balance relatively straightforward and quick, as you only really need to tweak the talents. The trees could also only open up once you get to "Level-whatever-xpac-this-comes-in". This way you don't need to retroactively "fix" encounters from earlier in the game. The trees could "switch off" when you level/gear sync for older content (i.e. roulettes).

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Personally, I aimed away from talent trees because I feel that can make it far more difficult to balance, whereas we already have stats to balance in the game ☺️ But I get what you mean, that ffxiv isn't trying to be hyper build oriented 😊

frankly, for a long time now i've felt the stat system as a whole is nothing more than legacy cruft, and could be discarded entirely in lieu of just basing everything off of item level like, sure, materia is a thing ... but also, is it really? it doesn't exactly enable anything past making certain gear take more effort to fully activate, and it does so in the least interesting way possible. beyond that, all the varying options for gear sets that let you pick from whatever stat spread most appeals to you are ... basically entirely job locked, so your stat spread is picked for you. not that it really matters beyond giving different categories of jobs the teeny tiniest bits of flavor, specifically in what flavor of damage multiplier they aesthetically prefer, but that just further illustrates how the stat system is just there because it's always been there and it's not just character substats, either. armor all has its prominent physical defense and magic defense numbers at the very top of the tooltip, and they sure are numbers alright. like i'm sure the fact that heavy armor tends to have more physical defense than magical and clothes tend to have more magical defense than physical is something that has let a player survive a fight at least once within the entirety of the game's lifespan, but also: when the hell do you even know what damage type you're taking in the first place. the feint and addle reworks clearly demonstrate that squeenix still perceive damage type to be something that matters, as if dark knight still dedicating a mitigation button to mitigate _specifically_ magic damage wasn't evidence enough, but not once in the entire time i played did i have any idea what damage any incoming attack did. presumably, the mobs that slung spells as autoattacks did magical damage ... probably, but beyond that? entirely beyond me oh, and there's attack delay. i mean, sure, autoattacks are effectively just a very minor dot graciously granted to all jobs that aren't nerds, so it's not exactly anything worth paying attention to. but, hey, it's free damage, so if you have the chance to choose between a really slow weapon and a really fast weapon that are practically identical otherwise, the fast weapon is gonna eke out a bit more dps from all those extra attacks, right? right? yeah see the funny thing is, weapons don't actually have an autoattack damage stat. sure, they _say_ they do, but it's not _really_ its own stat. it's the product of the weapon damage and ... the ratio between its attack delay and a universal base attack delay ( which, iirc, is 3 seconds, just like all other dots ). so your attack delay has absolutely no impact on your autoattack dps. now, you might think that means it has _literally no function_ whatsoever, unless you really want to argue the difference between fishing for crits more often vs. having harder hitting crits on ... your autoattack, but i'm happy to point out that, indeed, there is _one_ point where attack delay has a tangible difference. one obscure, almost secret interaction where picking a faster weapon _will_ result in a mechanical benefit: paladin generates oath from its autoattacks. so a sword that swings faster lets you use sheltron slightly more often. _y-yaaaay?_ ... there's a reason why i describe it as "legacy cruft." at one point, ffxiv ... _tried_ to be an mmorpg, and while i can't say i personally know if it succeeded at that, i can definitely say current ffxiv absolutely does not even try. at the rpg point, anyway. it's inarguably great at the mmo part, it's just ... the gameplay part is something wearing a lot of rpg conventions, but only because they're hand-me-downs inherited from its older versions and they absolutely _do not_ fit. and i have to say, it bothers me a _lot_ more that all those stats are pretending to be anything that matters than it does that ffxiv isn't much of an rpg. i can't really say it loses much at all from being streamlined to the point where stats are mostly a historical curiosity ... i just wish they didn't give the impression of complexity that isn't really there

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Indeed, auto attack delay matters very very little if at all 😅 If I recall correctly, ninja also used to generate it's ninki gauge from auto attacks a long time ago. However, the delay is somewhat irrelevant when all the weapons of a specific job has the same delay, and ultimately "faster = better" so if there ever was a choice, it would be obvious what is better. This is also what caused shields to just have fixed stats across the board. Because of how sheltron worked, guaranteeing a block, it was more helpful if the shield blocked more damage when it blocked, so shields with more block strength was always preferred 😅 Regarding the damage types: a few patches ago, a damage type icon was added next to all damage. A blue sword for physics, a purple wand or stave for magical, and a green pow for "unique" (mostly unblockable damage). Naturally, this still means you can't know for sure what damage type something is the first time they strike you, you'd have to guess. 😅

Been recently thinking about Stats in RPGs lately. This came at a good time for me 👍

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Oh interesting! I hope my video added something to your thought process! ☺️

@tylercafe1260

9 ай бұрын

​@@CaetsuChaijiCh Even games across the same series have vastly different Stat Calculations. If you want some RPGs to look at for what I mean compare FF7 stats and how they effect the game to FF9 or if you want to have more modern example FF16s Stats for comparison. I just find it fascinating how vastly different they can be and how many stats can actually tie into each other. Like how in FF9 the Spirit Stat effects Attack, Defense, Crit Rate, Crit Damage, Spell Duration, Etc. all from one Stat that's supposed to be primarily used for Magic Defense and Healing. Some games even have Calculations based off your actual Level Number which is why some games you get exponentially stronger with each little level up.

The problem with substats being too strong is you get a situation like retail WoW where "substandard" stats that don't fit the raiding meta are deemed worthless and thus, any gear with that stat on it compared to the meta stat is deemed worthless. This is then further compounded by having to farm BIS substat gear, made even worse with a super rare third stat drop like leach and no way to change stats on gear. It is often the vocal minority hardcore raiding playerbase that demands the developer remove RPG mechanics to replace them with meta friendly damage stats, as that famous quote goes the playerbase will optimise the fun out of a game given the chance.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

But Indeed, as it stands, in ffxiv we also do this thing with throwing aside a gear piece with suboptimal stats 🤔 it is just less noticeable because there typically is two and only two options I think 😊 But you are right that if the stats get too wild, we might land in a retail wow situation 😊

The substats are definitely "boring" by design, along with not really changing how your job plays. If they did more, then there would be much more massive discrepancies in power between players that don't want to get in the weeds with that stuff and those that do. Gear in general offers such tiny boosts in power in general. Getting a single new piece of gear, you really won't notice your damage being any higher. It takes a lot to actually matter, and I think that's just a healthy spot for a game like this. I don't feel the need at all to get best in slot on jobs I don't play "seriously". If I miss a week or two of tomestones, it's not gonna feel like I'm massively behind everyone else. Being like this makes it a lot easier to just hop into content on a job outside of my main, even high end content. Personally, I feel like it would be awful if job rotations only felt "correct" once you got just the right gear. I'd feel locked into one job at all times. Plus, even if these stats were more impactful, people will math out what is best, and then the community will have the stance that you either play this way or you're wrong. Then you might get "gear police" even in normal content. The ability to just not care about what gear someone has, within certain margins, is a massive benefit to the game. That said if they could find some way to make stats alter how your job feels without actually impacting how much overall damage it can do, I'd be all for it.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Yeah you are probably right that even if all the stats were impactful and wild, we would discover the most effective approach, and people would police it a bit like how we already have things 😢 But Indeed, I just wish the options were more interesting without it necessarily disturbing the balance 😅

I just have one question for the devs: why can't I be a heavy machinist gun? gimme usefull skill/spell spees plz T-T

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

It is really awkward with how heat blast doesn't benefit from speed 😣

Honestly, this is the price of balance. If stats were interesting, it would take exponentially more time and effort to balance a raid tier. To avoid that, you need to have the spectrum of raw stats, at a given ilvl, within a very narrow range to ensure a) players can't screw up their build (with current gear) to the point that it can't be overcome with skill and b) truly min/max builds don't exist.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I suppose that is true. The way I viewed it was more that because most things about jobs are set in stone, except the stats you choose, that is the one moving part. And it would be more interesting if we could move it more! But I suppose you are right that moving it more would specifically cause more balance issues 😅

It almost feels like FFXIV could just hide stats entirely behind the scenes and just label gear purely by item level.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Given how many jobs dislike speed, it would certainly not surprise me if there is a future where the stat is removed. And if it is, then you might just be right on this 😕

A bit late to the Party, but here are my two cents: First, before you can make Substats more interesting, you need to give us the option of changing our melds for a specific gear piece depending on my Job/Gear Set. Meaning: If my SAM and my MNK want the same chest piece, but want different meld, I can seamlessly swap between two "meld sets" just by changing my Job/Gear Set. Now for the Substats itself: - Leave Crit as is. This will be the default option - Give Determination an extra Bonus on DoT-Dmg, so it becomes preferable to Jobs like BRD or the Healers - Direkt Hit can stay mostly the same HOWEVER I would change the Jobs so that MNK gets Progs off of DH instead of Crit (and he has guaranteed DHs instead of a guaranteed Crit). Additionally, They should give a lot more Jobs these kinds of Progs. - Lastly, Give Skill/Spell Speed some sort of effect so it slightly enhances the dmg of abilities. Just in order to make it not suck as much on Jobs with a lot of dmg abilities. And maybe also increase the Dmg of Spells/Weaponskills that hit the min Recast Time of 1.5s The Idea is that while not every Job will have different Sets, at least different Jobs will want diffent Substats. From threre SE can be a bit more creative in the Job-Design itself. Like for example having MNK scale better with SkS, so he can reach 1.5s Speed everything more will just increase his dmg further to the point where he can choose between a DH-Crit set and a DH-SkS Set. Tbf. it will be somewhat inevitable that every Job will have THE ONE set. That is just the nature of a game where dmg is the be all and end all. And that is fine with me as long as not every job has the same substat priority and we have a few Jobs with actual choice like BLM I would be satisfied.

Well... I am ok with it because l am playing another game that has a complex stats system. It took me a lot of gold to make sure my stats don't cap out.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That's fair ☺️ get the complexity nature from a different game! 😁

That FF14 has essentially no buildcraft is a disappointment on a personal level, but it's also fascinating to me on a macro level, especially in light of the *excellent* buildcraft in another of my favorite games, Guild Wars 2. Incidentally, the fact that skill speed is actually relevant in Samurai rotations does play a role in why I like the job so much, yet the difference in *feel* between fast and regular Black Mage isn't anywhere near as compelling to me.

10:52 blue mage? I have .95ish on some spells

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Recast time is not the same as cast time 😅

It would take a revamp of the game, and jobs, never gonna see it, but would be interesting to have substats which affected proc rates. Say, something which improved dnc rate of feather and the random 3/4 parts of the combo. Or stats which changed guage generation. Stuff which would drastically alter play more than just "hit same buttons faster" In general it would be terrible, and I'm sure people would hate jobs being like that. But it's fun to think about

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I suppose that might be. On the other hand, given how unpopular speed is, and is getting, and how unimpactful the other stats are, it is just as possible that with dawn trail, we would just not have substats at all 😅 but that might be doomsaying a bit. I don't know what would make things better necessarily, but I do think what we have is very boring and offers an idea of choice and options that aren't really there 🤔

@post-mastersodium3136

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh oh yeah 100% agree. In many ways, materia melding is pointless and uninspired. You're gonna do it the one way, so why even have it? Wouldn't be any different if we had zero materia slots, and the substat bonuses were just there. It would be nice if you could actually alter your gameplay. I'd love to see an ability to make your job play how you like it to feel, rather than just make number bigger. I'm sure it would be a nightmare to balance, but jobs having less strict rotations, and substats which could truly alter your rotation seems fun. But I already like dnc, so maybe I'm just a sucker for random procs, lol

The only substat that impacts gameplay is skill/spell speed. And even then, nobody wants those stats

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Indeed, I imagine this is partly because many jobs just aren't built with any synergy with it. And then those that are, benefit too little for it to compete with make damage number bigger 🙁

man even IF tenacity reduced dmg by 30 we'd still be seeing tanks avoid it cause it does less damage. unfortunately in any game with a dps leaderboard, thats all thats ever gonna be on anyones mind

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

You are probably right. As stated, we have so many defensive cooldowns anyway, that the game would need some changes to make damage reduction more significant, but I imagined that if tenacity had a bigger cap, there would be a better chance we could find a middle ground where tenacity is relevant and significant, without the game being completely broken elsewhere as a result 😅

@garitobee7541

9 ай бұрын

That, as well as DPS checks and enrages. A boss dying faster is mitigation too after all. I'm not sure of any video game that has come up with a clever tactic, mechanic or design that doesn't make "everyone gear towards maximum DPS always" the optimal and objectively better choice.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

@garitobee7541 indeed. From my perspective it feels like one day, we just realized the "the boss dying faster is also mitigation" thing and since then, things have just been different 😅 but I can't point to when this happened!

@torakku

9 ай бұрын

​@@CaetsuChaijiChthat's a possibility, but i also kind of think imcreasing damage to compensate for a higher expected TEN is...just gonna end up the healers' problems 😂 i once had a tank in p8 pf who claimed he couldnt weave his defensives for a buster so he'd need gcd shields at max ilvl. as long as its someone else's problem, eh?

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

@torakku bruh 🤣 yeah you are probably right that as it stands, as long as we can just stack more defensives, not much is gonna change in that aspect 😅

I have to agree. The substats in FFXIV suck. They suck real bad. That being said, there are some very notable design and balance benefits to boring substats. They simplify design (debatably a good thing) since you don't have to worry about a player's build making drastic changes to their rotation and that in turn simplifies balance since those stats also have an easily adjustable purely numerical impact on a job's performance. This is in part why the relative difference in job performance in FFXIV is so much lower than other MMOS with the highest rDPS class in FFXIV doing only 8% more damage on average than the lowest, whereas in WoW the highest DPS does a much more significant 35% more than the lowest. HOWEVER. This comes with the consequence that for most substats, and all main stat, you could turn off your floating combat text and suddenly you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between ANY of them. Even Piety is largely extraneous with the amount of built-in mechanics for Healers to recover MP. Speed is most interesting, but as you said it comes with its own downsides while having minimal impact. The stats add complexity to the math behind build crafting, but for vast majority of players they will look up the mathematically correct answer, watch the number grow a miniscule amount bigger, and have no depth added to the gameplay. I'm sure plenty of people are satisfied by number get bigger, but I find it incredibly disappointing and it really takes away an opportunity to include playstyle expression in the game.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That is a very good way to put it yes! Boring and simple stats make for a very predictable game with a very predictable gameplay. We can't pull something absurd out of a hat somehow. WoW as a comparison is very good, since they are almost the polar opposite in moving parts: extremely impactful stats, entire talent trees allowing customization (making specializations unpredictable), plus, all of the random gear bonuses, trinkets and so on that means you can never be sure what someone can do! Ultimately, I suppose you are right that the majority of the player base is better off with the stats being very boring and simple, since it means you can safely ignore it for the most part, and that no job is suddenly bad or suddenly broken 😊 Thank you for that perspective! I appreciate it!

@Lenvoran

9 ай бұрын

It's definitely more approachable as a result and that's better for the general playerbase, though I feel it really does suffer from a lack of creativity. There's not really a chance for someone to come out and really shake up the meta from some quirky setup using and a Rube Goldberg machine of mechanical interactions and that's kinda disappointing. Thank you for the interesting discussion topics! They do an excellent job prompting me to think and consider different topics more specifically and really solidify my thoughts on them.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

@Lenvoran I'm glad to hear that! Ultimately, the purpose of these kinds of videos is more to discuss or think about it, so I'm glad you enjoy them in this way! 😄

I always like these videos because they often come from...a point of ignorance. Not in a bad way, but more of...not understanding the history of the game. In the ye old days...ARR and Heavensward you had Crit/det/accuracy in red, piety/parry in yellow, spell speed/skill speed in purple, elemental in white, strength/vitality in baby blue. You needed a certain % for hit. Then you adjusted your stats accordingly to the class. With Crit always beint the top focus. Parry was always unwanted as the only class that it was useful with was Paladin that had a built in 23% block chance and had a skill to increase block rate by 50% giving you a 73% block rate for 10 seconds. You were also not allowed to meld strength but you could meld vitality, it was useful in Alexander as you would trade damage for survivability. Then....they changed how that work due to tank changes in 3.2 because strength was king for tanks (it also pissed of melee because they had to compete with tanks on striking gear). Then that became OP so they adjusted it to strength again...and come 3.4 it was a 1:1 strength + vit ratio. Then stormblood came in and ditched accuracy for DH. That was fun for theorycrafting but it was underhwelming and up til ShB it continued to be that way due to no class giving a Direct Hit buff. Honestly the game would be 100% fine if they ditch the materia system becaue the team is too afraid of actually tinkering with the system to be of any value. Tenacity would be great if they didnt keep it so nefed that its unwanted (to the point tanks go out of their way to avoid those pieces). Piety would be great for healers and if it was, maybe White Mage wouldnt have been kneecapped by Astros complaining that Thin Air was OP (i remember those official forum threads). Spell speed would be great as well, maybe people would play black mage more frquently. Skill speed would also be good as well if the GCD system wasnt wonky. With No TP. I Should be allowed to run a 2.4 or lower Machinist build and still hit a 2 minute window. Honestly if they are too afraid to tinker with a system, its best to remove it as it serves no purpose other than being a point of complaint.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I'm mildly confused by the start of your comment, because I feel like I address some of those things in the video that you then go on to list 😅 I do know the history of the game in regards to stats. But just as you listed, it's not like the stats were any more impactful back in the day, with hit only being significant because it has to be. Parry was less significant than tenacity is today since it didn't increase your damage (but crit did of course!) I don't know if removing materia would help, but if allowed equipment to be a little wilder because the developers have more strict control over what amount of stats you could get, I might be all for that 😊

@grygaming5519

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Its just useless at the point. At most every gear you're only able to get between a total of +72/+68 per stat if we're even lucky. They could just add the missing stats to the gear. It really doesnt serve any purpose other than being a point of contention. Also to the earlier point, might of helped to talk about the history of Materia just a tad, then go into why the state of materia is bland.

This is why I just stack crit on everything. Because physically bigger numbers is more fun.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Fair enough! Make sure to bring just enough direct hit that you have the chance, and then supplement with determination alongside the crit to make the numbers even bigger!

@RicardoSantos-oz3uj

9 ай бұрын

Will depend if you are at the threshold of change of not. As it increases on steps. Adding 20 critical when you need 21 for the next step, will do nothing but waste a slot.

@Nazuiko

9 ай бұрын

​@@CaetsuChaijiCh Especially keeping in mind that Crit Direct hits arent just larger numbers, theyre also *physically* larger. Bigger font = More fun!

Make abilities scale with speed >:3

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That might help! 😊

To be honest it would be really easy to make them more interesting. Like adding procs based on crit (like the fire 3 proc or getting a double dualcast proc on jolt crit), raising speed value so people can use it to get more stuff under buffs, adding 60% dh on some spells so you can hit the soft cap ( eliminating determination because a stat that is just like primary but worse is kind of awful), making rampart and 30% mits mitigate 3-5x your tenacity value instead, and cutting base mana regen so people need to use piety. The issue is that in the end people would just look up the best build online and copy it anyway, and it would add more problems since you probably need different builds based on team composition. For as much as I would like to feel better by gaining some stats, I don't know if giving up the ease of logging in, getting in any group and be optimal whatever the team comp is worth it.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I suppose that is a good point 😕 I wonder if it would make a significant impact on how gearing works, if stats were more impactful. The main benefit i wanted to see was perhaps more that a newly levelled 90 for example, doesn't feel exactly the same as full best in slot, aside from the damage numbers 😅 I imagine that might be possible without the gearing changing very much 🤔😕

This is hardly different than other Final Fantasy games though. FF9 is super fun and famous yet the speed stat is literally useless. No matter how much speed stat you have characters turn order was the same.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

That may be so! I believe ff10 on the other hand made speed very overpowered in a way. And given how it stacks with haste and the like, it can be very overwhelming depending on how the game is designed I suppose! 😅

@coreywhitaker883

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh Yeah it could go either way. I think SE never really looks at stats so much is my main point. I think they just kinda set it up with some broad idea/goal in mind and the stats wind up being silly numbers. At least in other games, again, this is an mmo and I didn’t play 11.

I like your videos, mate. But FFXIV's job design as a whole ain't that deep in the first place. There isn't even any sort of customization or buildcraft. I think you might quickly run out of video options for that category... This game's combat frankly only shines through the encounter design, and unfortunately not through its playable jobs. Jobs lack customization options to spice them up. Each job has a single very obvious rotation intended by the devs (minus odd cases like PLD pre-rework). They are very slow by design (you're never pressing more than 3 buttons every 2.5 seconds). And to top it off, the game isn't exactly the most responsive due to technical limitations (you can never execute more than one action at a time, hence queueing up to half a second in advance, which can feel a bit weird at first if you're used to super responsive or action combat). I love raiding in FFXIV. The encounters can be incredibly fun. But the jobs themselves are frankly pretty mid compared to other MMORPGs. They just look cool visually. Just my opinion though.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

You may have noticed that some jobs are directly impacted in how they perform their rotation, depending on how much speed the job has. Very few jobs work this way, and the effect is very mild, specifically because only speed can impact the rotation, and even so, you can't actually get much of it 😅 that is kind of my point! Compared to other mmos, ffxiv only has stats as a "tuning knob" to customize your game play with, and ultimately, it's speed and only speed because all the other stats only make damage number bigger 😊 I'm not saying the jobs have huge customization capability, but if we had more impactful stats, we might at least be able to influence it slightly. And it is just a thought I put forward in this video 😊 I understand that having very boring stats that hardly change anything makes it very easy to make sure all jobs are balanced!

ff14 was changed to be this way. there used to be fast playstyles, slow playstyles and more importantly a hit cap. all of these were removed because they were annoying to manage when upgrading gear, caused you to need multiple sets of gear depending on the job you were playing and most importantly caused you to have to pull things out of sockets and move them around depending on the content you are doing. it was tedious and expensive, not fun. the game is balanced around substats being this way. if you want flavor change your job. that's the philosophy ff14 follows and i think it is MUCH better than the way wow throws it's "interesting" sub stats that just become theorycrafted then required to play a certain way

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

You might be right on that. Still, I think we could have a game where stats both are interesting without it being tedious or annoying like you suggest 🤔 and I also played in the times where you had to have multiple gear sets. In fact, even if you play slow black mage, you would still prefer to have separate gear for your summoner and red mage 😅

@strattaravar

9 ай бұрын

I don't disagree with things like hit chance. It's annoying to constantly have to retool your gear every time you get loot so you can even do damage in the first place, but it would at least be nice if they made jobs synergize with stats properly so that there was a tangible feeling to getting better gear that doesn't require you to run a parser to notice. Like, BRD used to have its procs based on DoT crits so BRD wanted crit to increasingly scale its procs. Also, MNK still basically plays like this at a high level when doing Savage raiding. You want a very specific GCD and given how the stat tiers work out, you can end up with situations where you replace a necklace and then have to replace half the melds in your gear because you lost so much SkS (this happened this last raid tier when upgrading from the crafted set). I don't dislike it per se, but it definitely throws a spotlight on some of the jankiness of XIV's stat and job design.

A lot of videos complaining about homogenization of jobs lately. For me, I appreciate the homogenization because I want to be able to seamlessly switch between jobs and feel like I’m making making an impact on all of them. Considering the amount of job changes the WoL goes through in trailers, I think SE wants to adopt this mindset too and now they’re just leaning into it.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I dunno, I like being able to learn and play a lot of different jobs. If ultimately they are all just slightly different flavors of the same thing, then it feels like we might as well just have generic melee dps, generic ranged dps, generic tank and so on 😅 But I suppose I can see the benefit if you just want to be the strongest 😊

@littywitty5867

9 ай бұрын

I also think it’s important to remember how intimidating FFXIV can be for new (to MMO) players as well. Keeping jobs beginner friendly is arguably more important than their complexity.

I am ok with the stats the way they currently are. It allows for "pick up and play" style of gaming, making mastery of your job and the gameplay mechanics the goal. Were the stats more complicated you risk alienating casual players who might want to start raiding, and overwhelm them with information. Stats having different effects would also not result in diversity of play, because what always ends up happening in MMOs which have more customization options is that only a handful of sets are considered meta, and so you either don't get to customize at all or you open the game up for a toxic mentality where you either know what you are doing or you're not a true player.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

It is very true that making the stats more diverse ultimately will just lead to people going for the best in slot setup anyway. The thing I find a bit sad is mostly that aside from damage numbers being bigger, there is hardly any impactful change to how it feels to play as you progress in item level :/ But I get that having very boring and simple stats make things easier to manage, and puts more emphasis on mastery of the jobs. I just wish there was a bit of change as you got better gear, like how jobs that like large amounts of speed will be able to gradually move into higher and higher speed tiers as the expansion progresses :-)

They changed these stats to be so simple because they don’t want to confuse new player 🤷🏽‍♂️

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I don't know if they specifically did it for the new players, but I guess it is possible they made the stats simple intentionally certainly 😅

Yeah, the Materia system was an complete faiilure.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I don't know why materia gets the blame here 🤔 the majority of the substats you get are on your gear itself 😅

fail proof ayyy

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I don't think I understand 😅

@tyty8484

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh If the choices you make have minimal, if any, impact, then it's easy to avoid the failure state. That's what has happened here.

nah i still see healers and tanks with DH and whenever you try to advise them , as gentle as you can, " you don't pay their sub"

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I think you missed the point completely here. Direct hit IS GOOD for tanks and healers, but it isn't FOUND on their gear naturally 😅 i have a separate video on that subject actually 😅

@ZelosSama

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh oh sorry yeah i completely misheard then . Still ,i'd think DH would be slightly less important here since it doesn't affect healing numbers , unlike crit , right ?

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

@ZelosSama naturally crit is considered better, but that is because it is ALSO better at boosting damage for healers and tanks 😅 The reason tanks and healers prefer direct hit is while determination boosts your healing too, doing, say, 5% more healing isn't going to change how many healing spells or abilities you have to cast. It's just going to land in over healing. And direct hit is ever so slightly better at increasing your damage because of how stats interact with each other, so ultimately it is recommended to go for direct hit as your second priority for most healers, and all tanks usually. I say usually because sometimes speed also matters! 😊 I hope this makes sense!

@ZelosSama

9 ай бұрын

@@CaetsuChaijiCh ahh ok yeah. i just didnt think DH on healers that strong since it would only be affecting only a part of you abilities, but it seems to be so good for damage that it is still worth it .... good to know ! thanks !

In other words, don't use Materia at all since they only increase sub-stats, just get the best in slot gear. XD

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Well, you also put materia in your best in slot gear 😅

I mean who can get excited about stats anyway.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

I'm a mathematician 😉 Just because you find stats boring doesn't mean everyone else feels the same!

The only stat that matters in ffxiv is ilvl.

@CaetsuChaijiCh

9 ай бұрын

Not exactly, but it certainly matters a lot 😊