such an insightful talk. kudos man, love your channel!

Dude, this is so interesting and inspirational. Great video!

That was brilliant! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on that topic. I feel much better now since the process of creating new music and sounds and experimenting with new tools is giving me the most joy

Was a really interesting talk on stream. Liked the idea of royalties % paid to the artist

I agree fully, Daniel. Thanks for putting this on yt. I also really miss your library reviews. Wtf man, lol. Come back.

I've been playing with AI song creation. It's fun but no substitute for actual musicianship, and most of what it generates sounds "retro" or aged. And even with my work, there's a human touch in that I'm creating primers to guide the audio, writing lyrics, assembling audio clips into coherent songs, and choosing what audio stays in and what to throw away.

I’d say neither tool or threat, we connect emotionally to humanity in art, so the best shot i give to AI is to make life a bit easier for composers making purely functional music like branding or advert, which nobody cares about in the first place.

Daniel love your videos! Do you ever think on making a patreon?

Awesome philosophication. WEll done

The depth of neural networks is being slightly underestimated here I think. It just hasn't been implemented yet. Once we get a music focussed network that is even a fraction as strong as GPT3 for instance, we will be able to describe exactly what we want and it will be generated on cue, sounding mixed and mastered. The NNs for music are still really shallow, wait until somebody drags the entire Spotify library though a NN and things will get really crazy.

@ViRiXDreamcore

Жыл бұрын

I agree with this as well. There are human element, but I think AI will be able to generate very impressive things. And we can twist it to make crazy things.

@GingerDrums

Жыл бұрын

@@ViRiXDreamcore Yeah. like "compose mix and master 20 innovative sounding 2min trailer pieces in the style of mark petrie and tom player incorporating maroccan percussion based on south indian classical music with mass appeal in a minor key with haunting vocalisations and a strong oboe lead melody".

I don't think AI is ever going to really compete on finished mastered songs. At least not without an operator to guide things strongly. What am I will be able to produce incredibly well small parts of songs, if you need rocking drum beat or a melodic loop, or even lyrics or vocals, the individual part will be able to produce well from the generate learning data. The problem is that modern music is so many layers and so many filters that it's hard to reverse engineer in a way that's going to feel fresh and hot. I also think mistakes in music arts so much more jarring and then mistakes in images, it's like going from Chess to Starcraft and we see how that goes when it plays people who actually good.

Really interesting !

The tether of emotion is a vital point. It is a connection to another human being ..often reverent ..often meaningful ..very often just a vibe…but it is magical ,these are qualities which I think Ai music has not yet captured .

Great points. After experimenting with Midjourney I think there might be another interesting piece to this convo. It is possible to 'break' the MJ algo, where it produces unexpected imagery that can be quite disconnected (in a literal sense) to the prompts. These images can be quite aesthetically interesting, and to me feel like a collab with the algo.

Sucks to not be the optimist in this conversation, but I really believe that most, if not all, of the arts are going to be not only made but also performed by AI in the not so distant future. Everything Daniel says in his video is correct, but I believe the elephant in the room is the crowd/consumers. Yes things like synaesthesia is very difficult to be replicated by AI and yes humans are needed when it comes to novelty, but is really any of the above what the crowd/consumers are looking for? So even if we are the only capable of finding the new and think out of the box, 90% of people that consume art products are not educated or they just don't care about it until they hear it. The market now is based on what the consumers want and a system is created that in most cases if someone creates something novel the work most likely is going to disappear in the vast ocean of standardised formulated garbage that is made every day and is "trendy". And AI will be better than humans when it comes to that garbage, which means that either directly or indirectly music is going to suffer as much as anything AI gets its hand on and does successfully. I just hope I am wrong about it.

I asked ChatGPT if AI could replace humans. It said AI is not capable of replacing human creativity that creative jobs are safe for the foreseeable future.

Thankfully (or not), the music copyright is more protected than arts. A new emerging music AI called 'Dance Diffusion' which only uses copyright free music as their data to train the AI. if even a slightly similar melody to a copyrighted song is outputted from an AI, you know UMG is gonna be on their asses. But then again, due to how AI can easily trained with a powerful enough computer, someone in their basement (and someone from another country where the copyright law is more relaxed * cough * china * cough * they're gonna train a version of that AI using copyrighted music.

Hey DJ! Mike Fox here. You make some excellent and valid points. I, however am a little concerned about AI for a few reasons. For one, I’ve personally witnessed lot of independent artists not being hired due to the convenience, speed, and inexpensive cost of AI generators. These AI generators may not be coming up with anything necessarily new (neither are most composers/musicians), but they are literally replacing artists, because the quality that it can produce is good enough for commercial purposes. This is mainly happening on an independent level, but unfortunately, that’s also the level that a lot of us working composers are at. Once AI can produce music on the same level that it can currently produce artwork, I think composers are going to have to really think outside the box and work even harder to convince project managers as to why they should hire us when they can just use an AI generator that produces the same quality of work at a fraction of the cost, and at speeds that easily surpass the human ability. It’s only a matter of time before AI gets there, and as we all know, technology evolves exponentially. Either way, great video. I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on the situation. Cheers, and Happy Holidays!

TLDR - Embrace the language of creativity

@AndreyRubtsovRU

Жыл бұрын

what? are you an AI? :-)

Skynet bro... Skynet! 🤣😳😞

I just feel like most working composers are very much sticking to a formula that isn't particularly hard to decode. 99.9% of composition jobs don't require something that is particularly unique or innovative as it wouldn't sit right with viewers, regardless of budget or "level" within the industry.

@ViRiXDreamcore

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. This litterally happened with the music on the first Avatar movie.

@emanuel_soundtrack

Жыл бұрын

here lays the difference between authentic vs original

@mededmoon6265

Жыл бұрын

Genshin Impact had very unique music in my opinion. that game is highly regarded specifically for its music.

@ViRiXDreamcore

Жыл бұрын

@@mededmoon6265 True. The melodies and progressions are very strong. Stuff like that will bd more difficult to replicate.

@mededmoon6265

Жыл бұрын

@ViRiXDreamcore I asked chatgpt if it could replace human creativity and it Said it couldn't. It said music producers and mix engineers jobs were safe for the foreseeable future. Lol. I'll take its word I guess.

No AI will be able to do what Björk does and artists as talented and hard to pin down to one specific style. You can train an AI (in the near future) with what she's done before and it will spit something out that sounds like that or a mashup of her works. But imagine Björk releasing a new album at the same time: I bet it would be something no AI could have calculated before - because she's constantly moving as an artist and the AI can't be trained with something that doesn't exist yet. Björk is just an example here. There are (and were) more musicians who are able to constantly redefine their "style". Queen is another example. It's always risky to say that an AI won't be able to do something, because the future is infinite - and with it the possibilities change. But I dare to claim if an AI would have been trained with the first three Queen albums, it would have created something - but never a Bohemian Rhapsody.

@hardelectrolove

Жыл бұрын

I'm not against AI, not at all. I don't like the copyright problems it already causes. I think this needs to be fixed and I like the royalties idea mentioned in this video. But I fear every artist will be ripped off until it goes to court and hopefully we as artists are lucky enough to win there. If that problem gets fixed, I will be happily using AI like every other tool. That's it: It's just a tool (with a lot of potential). If you can't hold a hammer right, you can still try to be a carpenter. But your work won't be as good as the work the people do who know how to use their tools.

I would’ve enjoyed putting you in a room with Jónsi and Stephen Fry to talk about this topic for both music and literature. I did a study at the university on the subject on how we perceive music when altered either by past experiences or conflicting images - I’m very much onboard with the notion that any AI as we know it today wouldn’t be able to input something as irrational as human emotions into a captive piece of music.

The thing with AI is that you need to give it something to think about / work with and that's not to say the information it's trained with, AI works only when you tell it to, and until it becomes conscious that's when we can be worried. Otherwise it's a really useful tool.

AI could do what we can, but it has to be able to know everything about the humans ( at least the things we humans know ) and it has to be able to know what music is. For example you cant take a Computer and tell it everything you know about music, but the PC actually dont even knows in what mood the world is. BUT if it also would know all the other factors, like the mood for example, it might be able to reproduce similar things, espesially for the Industrys. For example like Film- or Trailer Music. But the Music we like the most is hard to reproduce by a machine, because everyone has a different history and so everyone sees the Music in a slightly different way and likes other styles, so the machine would have to design Music for every person and than it might work but to do that we would need much bether Hardware than we have now :) ( it is way easyer to raise the humans in a way everyone likes the same Music xD but that idea is spooky ! ).... But first we would have to fully understand our Brain, and than we can replicate it in, for example a computer, and after that prozess we can create things with that software, and use ( or abuse ) it for Music and similar stuff !

@hastikalt

Жыл бұрын

wops I should have watched the whole Video before I wrote that Comment xD

Hmmm… I’m not sure. I get what you’re saying, but saying “AI will never XYZ because humans” feels a little short sited. I mean no disrespect, just disagree, at least partially. Humans will always be the ones making the prompts (for now), so yes, i do feel we will be the ones to shift the rules, but AI will pickup quick.

There is NO copyright on style. And it will never be, because let say I copyright the anime style, what will happens ? Same for music, it's a crazy BAD idea to do that. Like you said, Hans Zimmer style is Gustav Holst. Imagine he can copyright that style, then we cannot be inspired by The planets anymore ?

@micheleduritto

Жыл бұрын

He obviously meant only for AI, not for other people/musicians/composers, AIs don't take "styles" like we do, they take the data from the compositions to then process them into new music. To be able to funcion the AI have to take the data from somewhere, so you copyright your own data being fed to the AI.

@christophemortier5878

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@@SetyaPriatna That's the problem with the US. Facebook, Google, Twitter etc are selling user data like crazy because there is no law again collecting and sharing/selling user data in the US. In Europe there is GDPR to prevent that. An image, painting, etc posted publicly on internet is just data. So it can be used freely in the US, but it probably needs the user acceptance in Europe. Except if it's posted on a US website like deviantart or artstation. For music soundcloud is in Germany so it may be protected with GDPR. But it's public so. even if you say no, China doesn't care.

@micheleduritto

Жыл бұрын

@@SetyaPriatna so? laws can be rewritten...also, US laws are not the only laws on the planet, not to mention that that law was probably written without knowing what AI would become in the future. Unions and companies (and of course also the public in general) can push to regulate what material/data can be used by AIs or not. This is how laws are made, there is an issue that it was not there before and then a laws is written to deal with that issue, nothing new.

@christophemortier5878

Жыл бұрын

@@micheleduritto the problem with lobbies (Unions and companies...) is that it will protect them, not us AI artists, and not digital artists. We will all loose, so instead of having this current WAR between Digital artists and AI artists, we should group against these lobbies.

@micheleduritto

Жыл бұрын

@@christophemortier5878 can unions be lobbies? yes they can.. and i know in the US unions are a joke...but unions were, and in many part of the world still are, the "lobbies" of the workers, so they do represent all of them (in this case the artists). Also, even if companies (in this particular case music companies) were to make their own interest only....that could still be benficial for the artists, because, to be able to still make money, they would need to help to find a way (and pressure the various goverments to make laws) to not allow AI to be used instead of their artists. This is not a AI aritsts vs regular artists thing at all, i am all for not being on the same side of the powerful, however, in this world, money is necessary to live, and there are a lot of people that depends on their art to have food on their plate everyday, and AI threaten to take that away, this is not a matter of "what is art", it is a matter of, do we still want the artist to make a living out of their art or not?.

Yeah, what you’re explaining is called cognitive imagination, Philosophy talks about it all the time. IE-if God had a language, it would be music.

Anyone that thinks AI music will be limited, derivative and a copy and paste job, really haven't seen much of what MidJourney, Dall-E 2 and Stable diffusion can do. Especially when you consider that these tools have not even been around for a whole year yet. We're doomed - it's just a matter of time.

@WillyJunior

Жыл бұрын

Agree. People say "it can only get ideas from what's already been done" but that's exactly how humans work too. There's still going to be a human curating the results of AI, so while an AI left to its own devices isn't going to change the world with its music, once anyone with a good ear can "create" music, the whole music composition/production industy takes a huge hit. I don't see how it can be any other way.

I understand where you're coming from, but I have to say, I wholeheartedly disagree. The potential of AI in the creative field is something that should not be underestimated. AI as a technology has only been around for a fraction of the time that humans have existed and roamed the earth and yet, in just a matter of weeks, with the launch of Chat GPT, AI technology has already surpassed our abilities in certain areas. The capacity for AI to learn from every piece of music and art that has ever existed, and make decisions at lightning speed, is something that us humans simply can't compete with. Up until now, we as humans have only had to compete with other human beings. We want to feel special as creatives, and we are, because we know we have the ability to innovate and evoke emotions in others, something that is one of the most powerful tools in existence. It's hard to accept that AI will take over, but personally, I see this as an exciting time to be alive and an opportunity for us to learn from AI and grow as creators. By embracing AI as a tool, we'll be able to push the boundaries of what's possible and explore emotions we didn't even know existed! AI will continue to evolve and improve at a rapid pace, allowing it to surpass human capabilities in creative pursuits like music composition. While it may be difficult for us humans to accept this idea, it is something to look forward to as it has the potential to take us to new emotional heights in the art and music we experience. It might not be something we can fully understand yet, but we should be excited about the possibilities it holds and not afraid of it. To be honest, we don't have much choice!

James is a very smart person. But on this occasion I want to bet he will be proven wrong. And it will be interesting to retrospectively watch this video.

I tried the musical AI. ,,AIVA'' but it's no competition for musician at ALL. Can be used to inspire yourself after some writing blockage, but it sounds most of the time the same... Or so crazy , it really can't be used for nothing...

@HumanTouchArt

Жыл бұрын

AVIA is kind of shit for now lucky ... but in a few iteretions you know how fast this algorithm evolve it's probably get there ... jukebox for example is way scarie it's more like a dalle e version of audio ... 😓😓