there's going to be more historians with history degree that began their love of history from video games in the future

@MarinaInChains

3 ай бұрын

we're already there actually, a decent part of my class began with videogames, me included

@Hell_O7

Ай бұрын

I think Roel Konijnendijk (an Ancient Greek historian that show his face pretty often in Historian Reacts) said his interest starts with Rome Total War

An interesting essay on the video game that started my lifelong fascination and love for medieval history. Well done!

@historyinbits

3 ай бұрын

As it so often starts, with a truly addictive pc game

The thing about many campaigns in Aok/AoC is that many were based on movies and pop-culture rather than actual history. This includes El-Cid, which apparently was based on a movie about him, the obvious Braveheart inspirations of the Tutorial, or the overall "Kingdom of Heaven" vibe of the Saracen campaign. As the game grew, the new factions that emerged were more interesting, and their campaigns begun drawing from more interesting and obscure parts of history. The Quality of the campaigns in Dawn of the Dukes, Depicting in Essence one giant Mega campaign focused on the battles in Eastern/Central Europe between the Lithuanians, Poles, Bohemians, Hungarians and Teutonic Order in terms of both Narrative and historical accuracy is leagues ahead of most campaigns in the vanilla age of empires 2 and it's expansion packs. I think however is more interesting is looking at the overall theme and narrative of the game, that perhaps has since been lost. As you mentioned, Age of Empires 2: The Age of Kings, was a direct sequel to "Age of Empires 1: Rise of Rome" expansion pack. It's tag line was "Rome has fallen, now it's your turn to rise up." We Start in the dark age of Europe, the inclusion of which is already a rather big statement by itself, and we go on to develop feudalism, castles, and then Imperialism in a notion that would be alien at this time period to anything perhaps save the Japanese. The Byzantines didn't have a dark age, neither did the Persians or the Chinese. Why do they start as a random village? The Choice of civilization by itself is a weird mix, if we look at the Original 13. Many European civilizations that represent (according to their campaigns, manual and in-game history section) Medieval Kingdoms such as Scotland, England and France are actually called by the names of tribes and ethnicities from antiquity, sometimes with hilarious results. The Progenitors of the HRE and the Kingdom of France (and parts of Italy) the Franks, are here depicted solely as French, which is why they have Norman Castles, High Medieval French Knightly Cavalry, and... Migration period throwing axemen? The same weirdness applies to Goths famous for their cavalry becoming infantry spam civilization with Huskarls, the Celtic Bretons being used to represent the English, and every single Gaelic ethnicity and polity such as the Irish, Welsh, Cornish, Scots and *actual* Bretons being thrown into the catch all term "Celts." The notion was clear for many civs that you are meant to start as a tribe, that is the progenitor of the states we'd know today. Bretons for Britain, Franks for France, Goths and Teutons for Germany, etc. However over time these more tribal and generic civs ("goths", "Slavs", "Teutons"), also begun existing side by side with... well defined kingdoms and nations. Slavs and Poles, Bohemians and Bulgarians. Franks and Burgundians. Italians and Sicilians and ... Romans,? That said, in the expansions done in the Definitive edition, it seems that Age of Empires 2 has achieved, perhaps by accident, yet another them:it's various Campaigns might be the best example I've seen in mass media of showcasing the domino effects of the Mongols and their Invasions. We see the long lasting effect of the initial Mongol invasion in so many campaigns, creating a narrative that you can only get by actually playing the campaigns. The Mongol invasion of Russia depicted in part 4 of the Genghis Khan campaign shows us demolishing a Kipchak tribe - Which we then play as in the Kotyak Khan Campaign. That Campaign ends with us choosing either to join the Cumans who went on to become Mamelukes in the middle east, or as those who settled in Hungary. We later see both in different campaigns - in Barbarossa's campaign, where we get a chance to enlist Cuman mercenaries, or when we see one of those Cuman Mamelukes in Edward Longshanks Campaign where he goes on a crusade, which also depicts the Ilkhanate as a force we can get on our side with some tribute. The campaign dedicated to Tamerlane has us destroying our way across Persia, Anatolia and Northern India, and we later play and the Mughals who claimed their heritage from the Timurids. We get the Mongols and the people they chased away always popping up. The Amounts of Campaigns where they, their successor states, or a people they displace show up and shape history is perhaps one of the best ways to realize just how impactful the Mongols invasions truly were, centuries after Temujin emerged on the world stage. And that's neat, imho.

@misteral9045

3 ай бұрын

Yeah please explain to me the Dravidians getting the Therisidae.

@EresirThe1st

3 ай бұрын

The civ choice makes more sense when you realise it's going for cultural/ethnic connections over states.

@misteral9045

3 ай бұрын

@@EresirThe1st But they're not going for that, they've directly stated that they go for what's popular. For example there are many significant historical inaccuracies with the Indian campaigns, that happen to support a particular narrative that the Indian government loved.

@wildfire9280

2 ай бұрын

⁠@@EresirThe1st I don’t think that works either with these examples.

My favorite campaign in all of Age of Empires is the Carthage campaign from the DEMO of Age of Empires: Rise of Rome, and you played it as Carthage during the Punic Wars. This alone triggered my interest in history.

@historyinbits

3 ай бұрын

Wow yes, gotta love the Punic Wars!

I think it would be interesting if you also looked at the narrative points of view the game tries to implement in its campaigns. Rather than a documentary, it makes the stories seem as if they come from first person accounts. Like with the Attila campaign, you are being told a story by a retired Franko-Gothic warrior, now a priest, regaling his life riding with the Huns. Also, campaigns that have come out since the release of definitive edition have increased their focus on historical accuracy and they tend to include sieges and conquests similar to Crusader Kings as part of the gameplay, which is unique from playing a simple match against other players or AI. The newest DLC just added a bunch of very interesting campaign levels that highlight some of the lesser known stories too, and in cool detail.

Since this is a game that has been continuously added to from 1999 to the current day, how about a comparison between older and newer additions to the game? (In terms of the depictions of civilizations and campaign storytelling) It might be good to compare it with AoE4 in that regard as well, since it is a more recently released game. Also, I think a comparison between gameplay mechanics/strategies and actual historical warfare might be interesting too. (e.g. how more complex aspects of warfare have been translated to simpler game mechanics)

Hope to see more ck3 videos soon, they’re always great!

This channel satisfies that part of me that enjoyed Bret Devereaux's blog series on various games. Glad to see there is a wider academic interest on the impact of games on culture's perception of history.

Can wait for then to see the american civs with full plate armor armor

Granted the first 5 Age of Empires III campaigns (Blood, Ice, Steel, Fire and Shadow) do seem to be more stories where history from 1565 - the late 19th Century is more a backdrop with a fictional cast rather than depicting historical events and the Chinese campaign is more of a "what if" story with at least some inspiration from the '1421 Hypothesis' and so it might be fair to say that only the Japanese and Indian campaigns are historical stories in the same way as the El Cid campaign, but still there may be something interesting to work with. Still this sounds like it will be fun and I'm looking forward to episodes following this one, glad to have found your channel.

@GarkKahn

3 ай бұрын

Yeah right when you start go from the Siege of malta to Tenochtitlan aiding you, it doesn't make sense

@edspace.

3 ай бұрын

@@GarkKahn It does seem strange, I remember thinks at that point when I saw the Aztecs I was thinking, but the Aztec Empire was destroyed decades earlier, granted there was an Aztec rebellion in 1571-2 but they'd be rather different at least with more muskets (either looted from Spanish Arsenals or supplied by France and England). Not to mention in Steel how you begin during the Mexican-American war and later go and assist Simon Bolivar overthrow the Spanish vice-royalties despite how he died 6 before even the Texan War of Independence. Its quite the mess.

How about all the campains from AOE 1 to AOE 4 in addition to the expansions for aoe 1-4

@historyinbits

3 ай бұрын

We’ll look into it 🤓

Great channel, not enough views on this but don't worry. We appreciate you.

So I'm not alone?!:) This video touches on what my entire channel is about: Checking on the historical accuracy of AoE2. For example this one rates the historical accuracy of unique units: kzread.info/dash/bejne/pGWIx6aAZpyTYqg.htmlsi=9M-Ms3FBNFnvCB1S Generally I'd say that the game designers have to compromise historical accuracy for game balance and interesting mechanics. At least most of the history-blunders come from that tradeoff

Did you check the ingame historical encyclopedia ?

I think a good game you could do a video on with this same type of topic is The Great War: Western Front. From watching and playing that game I understand the point of trench warfare more than any movie or other media. The end of the game can be a slog but that is sorta the point, you feel the fatigue of WW1.

When will the channel come back😢

@historyinbits

Ай бұрын

Working on some new concepts! Sorry to keep you waiting!

As a fan of archelogy dig / excavation shows ~ AoE shows that campaigns & sites & towns are spread out over wide areas ,, & Plus i reasearched the displacement of my family tree during The Hun wars into anchient Ukraine & found relatives ,, also,, they were also addicted to AoE ,,, also i watch gamers play 3 hours of AoE ,, or i play the theme music to go to sleep.. very ASMR ..

I would love to see AOE IV videos

Not sure it's the right niche but if anyone's interested in hardcore Medieval warfare from a PhD in Medieval history & TW modder I strongly recommend Schwerpunkt's videos series

@historyinbits

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for the tip, will check it out!

I would love more Aoe2 campaigns

I think the new campaigns are meant to be more historically accurate

You say/repeat the trope that AOE 2 is most popular because of the settings. AOE 4 has the same setting and it is not as popular. I think that AOE 2 just has better mechanics and that people wouldn't mind any historical setting as long as the gameplay is good.

oh I used to love playing aoe!

@historyinbits

3 ай бұрын

Us too!

wololo

Wait a second, so then the Koreans vs Mayans battle for Texas never actually happened?

Do aoe4. It's a wonderful game that had a terrible launch They made more of an effort to make things historically accurate. The campaigns are presented documentary style

You are aware that the campaigns you are nitpicking are old enough to drink? The standards were a lot lower back then.

@GarkKahn

3 ай бұрын

The campaigns are almost as ancient as those wars being narrated lol

I see what you're going for with this channel, but having watched the video I didn't actually learn anything other than a bit of real Scottish history, which would be much more palatable not wrapped in bland academic discourse, and this video mostly feels like oral fellatio of the verbose variety.

I want a more historically based game. Otherwise, most people will learn, memorize, and tell a history that is wrong that they played through. And we end up with more falsehoods that will take generations to correct.

@GarkKahn

3 ай бұрын

While i like that too, in the end these are games/movies, not a documentary In the end they are not at fault if people heard a story based on real events and never bother to learn what really happened

@EresirThe1st

3 ай бұрын

Everyone knows these games are about flavour more than pure facts. However that flavour gives a better taste for the period than any textbook does.

95% of historians fail to relay accurate ww2 history so idgaf