Invicta filed for bankruptcy last year and are dumping their inventory. The owner kept ser# 001 of every limited edition model and now he's unloading them. I bought a bunch of watch winders for under $30. Steeldive is a brand I've been buying this year. Excellent value and quality. Seiko movements, sapphire crystals, micro adjust watch bands, and the best lume you'll find.

Excellent video, and I would like to see more of these if you are up for it. Like one for micro brands, complications , historic models, etc.

Seiko underestimated micro brands and the enthusiasts. For me personally Citizen has taken their place. I love Tissot and still is a brand that puts out great watches at reasonable prices.

Can't talk about Citizen and not talk about their eco-drive and radio controlled watches. Bought my first Citizen AT perpetual calendar in 2011 and changed the game. A true smart watch and most accurate watch ever since it synchronizes every night with the atomic signal. I own 4 of them now.

@garybliss5673

2 ай бұрын

Southpaw -- i got my first AT -- in 2006? -- which i replaced with a titanium model (my main dislike was the weight) maybe six years later. Great watches and i loved the easy time zone changes. But i'm all AliX mechanical now (in retirement): they are not tools . . . but pets . . . -- gary ray

@shootsouthpaw7771

2 ай бұрын

@garybliss5673 oh I am 100% with you on Ali watches. Wearing a Steeldive SD1970 Capt Willard with a nato strap right now in fact. I think I picked up 6 this year. You get a lot more than what you pay for.

@garybliss5673

2 ай бұрын

@@shootsouthpaw7771 Southpaw -- In my dotage i take my joys in life where i can find them, and one of them is being able to see a truly well-crafted, classically designed, piece of art on my wrist. I now have five San Martins and two Cronos models that, by turns, i use as appropriate or the spirit moves: today i'm working on some international tasks so i have an SN005 v4 "GMT Master" on-wrist, which is a joy to glance at. It is 5:23PM in Kyiv as i type these words btw . . . -- gary ray

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

You are absolutely right! There's so much to talk about Citizen and the video is already long so I had to cut out a lot of parts, but thank you for setting the record straight 👍

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

That's totally true, the Steeldive Willard is one of the best values around! Keep on enjoying it 👍

For a business perspective, Seiko did the right move by increasing their prices and introducing new lineups into their catalog. When I wasn't into the watch (or at the beginning), I always thought that Seiko was a cheap brand (I used to own one in the 90s that I bought at walmart for like 20$).It is similar what Hyundai did with their Genesis models.

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

From the business in the short term they did, but they alienated their loyal fanbase by doing so, that's dangerous

Great video, love your reasoning - Id like to see San Martin, Pagani, and Seagul added to represent the Chinese brands added. Maybe you can have a small update to the list every few videos if your mind gets changed, or a new brand gets added? Thanks for putting this together - I can only imagine how much work this was!

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Hello my friend and thank you so much for your comment and regards 👍. Yes that would be a good idea to make it evolve! Actually on my French channel I have done 2 already 😁.

I agree with you on Citizen!

I don't understand the question. My favourite brand ranks first. That's the meaning of favourite.

So, you ding Orient for a QC issue they fixed promptly, but put Tissot, Citizen, and Timex above Orient? Timex has major QC foibles on their lower end line. Citizen, outside of Promaster and some of their recent autos, is mostly a department store fashion brand complete with elapsed time dive bezels that don't actually move. Tissot is fine where it's at. Bad takes abound.

@replix0r

2 ай бұрын

I kinda agree with Timex. They are very bad. My last Timex purchase was so bad I was schocked and returned them after 14 days. It looked like it was finished in the middle of a tank battle.... On the other hand, Citizen and Tissot are way better than Orient right now.

Fantastic videos👍🏾

@Horologique

Ай бұрын

Thank you so much 👍

Thanks Olivier, again a very interesting review and your honest comments. i agree for most of choices...😊

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Thanks my friend!

Seiko in Decent and Tissot in Master?? No wayyyyyy brooooooooooo

@daviddiehl8523

2 ай бұрын

I'm curious as to why you believe Seiko brand wristwatches are better than the Tissot brand wristwatches?!

Nice work.

Very helpful!

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Thank you!

I agree with your judgment for the most part. Cool video bro 👍

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Thank you!

An informative video and sensible ranking, Olivier. One point. You lump Vincero in the "trash" category with DW, MVMT, etc. However, when I look at Vincero's website, they seem to have a number of watches that offer quality specs (at least on paper). In particular, they have automatic watches made of 316L SS and featuring sapphire crystal and a Myota 9000-series movement. Is it fair to separate Vincero from the DWs and MVMTs at this point or are you still skeptical?

Great ranking and very informative thoughts. Just my thoughts here on brands I would place differently or things I would add: - Seiko to master or even top dog. Well they don't make the cheapest automatic watches anymore, nor they fixed their QC issues. Still though now the meta is different- Chinese watches dominate the affordable segment and even I as enthusiast would prefer other watch copy with better case, sapphire and hacking for around the same price as an older seiko 5 with useless bracelet, small and simple case and on the most part- older design. Also the new Seiko models are like 30-40% better and 100% more expensive. Still though their prices are now going down and this 30-40% better watch are what makes the new seiko 5 models perfect for everyday watch(their price is now sufficient to produce probably the best designs for the money) or one watch to rule them all, while the older models were just a drug to enter automatic watches but didn't offer anything to make you keep them, except the skx, which is now equipped with better design, hacking and still absolutely sufficient 100m for 99.9% of people(the new 5kx that is). - Orient is decent yes, but I think they are overrated. Older and very simple/rough finishing, very fuggy crystals, not great looking dials as opposed to Seiko or Citizen. I think they are like a little cheaper beater watch and nothing more. Honestly I would prefer a chinese watch for their money or save up and get Seiko or Citizen. - Citizen is top dog yes. They have plenty of bad models, but the good ones are top. Probably the best implemented and value for money solar movements. The swiss quartz have amazing technology for thermo regulation, but what is the purpose when after 3 years the battery is dead. I love their divers both automatic and solar. - Timex to decent. Not a good value for money, they don't use stainless steel in their cheaper models and are very noisy. - Casio is master yes. They make the best cheap watches, but honestly I think many of their watches are just too cheap to work/feel/look great and would have preferred to be a little more expensive, but better made. Not a top dog, but master because it occupies and dominates the most budget segment. - Certina for us in Eastern Europe is another great proposition, a little bit more expensive than Tissot, but with better dressy or sporty designs.

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for sharing your excellent argued take with us! Very, very valid points, especially your take on Seiko which is spot on. I'm still a bit angry and not totally objective, although I really believe that for the price asked they could add sapphire and improve QC. Cheers!

@emperor4677

2 ай бұрын

@@Horologique Thanks :) A little bonus from me. There is one swiss brand, cheaper than Tissot, offering sapphire crystals, great packaging and amazing dials. The minus for some and plus for others is that they look a little bit like a modern minimalist watch, but still. The brand is Candino. Seems like they save almost everything from marketing and just puts it into creating good watches. I would say only the cheapest models would be of interest. Great gifts, look terrific and have plenty of X-factor. The only minus is for some reason they loose the X factor when you wear them on wrist. Candino Timeless is the model I think.

Wow.I agreed with everything he said. And I just bought a Citizen Tsuyosa glowing blue. Ordered from Hong Kong.😉

Olivier Another great review👍. I don’t have an Hamilton so I can’t on this. I think Orient should be in the master category by virtue of the Kamasu and the bambino. Casio is a tough call. In a lot of ways it should be a Top Dog because of the price point for the majority of their watches. However it appears the majority of their Edifice line has case sizes over 43mm which makes a challenge for those of us with 7.25” wrists to wear these watches

Excellent video,,, Right now Citizen is offering value for money watches.

@Horologique

29 күн бұрын

Thank you so much 👍

Wince a bit looking at hamilton seiko and Orient on same tier. Most of Orients watches are so dated in design, authentic 70's Hong Kong, I think another level was required to alleviate my neurotic ocd! Great vid thanks. Perhaps you can revisit with more watch brands.

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Thank you very much. Yes, Orient have dated architecture in their movements (basically Seikos from the 70s) but my experience they are fairly good, cheap and reliable movements, and the designs are great, as is the value

Thanks for you video! 🤝 I would certainly put Seiko in master because they’re still a dream watch brand for a lot of people but I agree their prices are too high now (think the diver and all Seiko 5 with mineral cristal). Invicta deserves trash, and Hamilton is so dissapointing… So there’s mine: S: Citizen 🏆 A: Seiko, Timex, Casio 🫶 B: Orient, Tissot, Hamilton 🤝 C: Swatch 👍 D: Invicta, DW 🤮

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for sharing 👍👍. Great choices as well 👌

@hircine92h

3 күн бұрын

Casio best.

There’s a reason why they are king of affordable (ish) 4:17. This one is no exception. I’m just not sophisticated enough to tell if this camera is better. Your camera work has always been great though. Thanks!

I haven't bought an Invicta in years. They don't support their products so I don't support them.

@Getouttahere78

2 ай бұрын

Totally agree with you. Timex watches have the same problem.

@KalElinabox

2 ай бұрын

​@Getouttahere78 One of Timex's problems is using brass cases when other brands at the same price would use stainless steel. They also use press on case backs too often.

Please include also tornado, quantum, and ralph christian. If this brand good or not. Please

I really like the 5 year warranty that Citizen gives their watches. The orient has only a one year warranty, and most of the crystals are mineral.

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Yep, that Citizen warranty is killer, but it changes by market and by vendor, that's why I cannot talk about it as a positive

Cannot get over Invicta having that much actual history .

Why aren't Bulova, Baltic, Luminox and Steinhart included here? Pointtec Group also makes affordable, interesting and good quality watches but I guess they are not much collected outside Germany.

Nice video Olivier. I'm glad to see this type of video on the affordable end. I do disagree with the rankings except for Orient and Tissot. Yes, Orient made a mistake with that dial, though I believe it has been fixed since and people could return them for an exchange, so I'd put them in the master section when we look at the 99.99% of the watches they get right. In fact I'd put Casio in the Top Dog section easily, their watches are far too good to be relegated for a couple of lesser ones, and in fact the 36mm Duro will suit some as a dress watch and the Casiotron is quite successful though it's not for me. Tissot, I would relegate to don't buy, as their watches aren't very affordable at the lower end, their quartz watches can't hit the markers, my PRX went out of its way not to hit ANY whatsoever, it's difficult to get the movements repaired and the Powermatic 80 has a lot of issues. Taking one of their dive watches, the Seastar, it has below average lume, they also had big problems with bezel lume washing off in water, even taking a shower, a number of years ago. Tissot is not really looking after quality control and doesn't deserve a reputation for Swiss quality, though admittedly it doesn't really have a reputation for attention to quality anyway.

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Thank you very much for your feedback my friend! I'm glad you gave your own! That's the beauty of this exercise, it's pretty subjective even though we try the most to base it in fact. I'm really glad you enjoyed it anyway and I'll try and do this list next year

When I spoke to the North American rep for Casio he said that they consider themselves a technology company not a watch company that just might explain some of their decisions Thanks for sharing as always Big Daddy Be well and God Bless 👍

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Thank you my friend. Yes that's very true, they are an Electronics company. I will soon6be reviewing a very promising new model of theirs 😁

Oliver -- A good video, and i know that you have to make judgments of what brands to include. My problem with this ranking is that in the $200-350 tier -- very much overlapping these brands' products -- you have AliX alternatives like San Martin or Cronos. The case, dial, bracelet build quality of them far exceeds any of these options. Sigh. -- gary ray

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Yes I agree with you! I really thought about including them, but there's enough differences as not to make AE brands comparable, such as brand recognition, warranty coverage and the fact most of them make homages. Nothing wrong with AE brands I own many many of them, but I believe the direct comparison cannot be made even though they have better specs and quiet often are better quality

@garybliss5673

2 ай бұрын

@@Horologique Oliver -- The Faustian Bargain with AliX brands is that you trade the buying experience (no local availability to "try on") and, particularly, local-in-country support for much better case, bracelet and dial finishing. In effect the customer is on-their-own for life cycle support . . . which is fine for hobbyists, but not consumers. So "yes" they are quite separate audiences and should not be cross compared. -- gary ray

Bonjour Olivier! I'll tell you that I would put the Tissot on "Top Dog" categorie, and Invicta is trash for me. I say that Invicta is trash consiring what we can buy on Aliexpress for the same money! Is realy that simple. Nice video, and Greetings from Brazil!

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Muito Obrigado my friend!! That's the beauty of these Tier Lists, we all have our own and many of them are very defendable. Everything from Invicta is Trash but for the 8922 below $70 and the 1953

@ricardonercolini6053

2 ай бұрын

@@Horologique If Invicta sell this two watches for about 50 American Dolars, maybe...

I don't have problems with Seiko's MRSP since it's easy to find sales, discounts and used watches on ebay at great prices.

@Ghosy01

2 ай бұрын

yeah seriously in australia seiko page watches go like 20 % extra a quick google and i find the watch 200 or more dollars less exact same thing .

I wonder why you have left out all the better Chinese brands? There are several watches by brands such as San Martin, Sea Gull and Proxima that are at least the equal of Tissot and the Japanese brands at an equivalent price.

@mrxman581

2 ай бұрын

No home grown Chinese Communist brands!

12:00 Not sure I would buy another swatch at this point in my life (I've owned a ton since the late 1980s), but, as you pointed out, you really can't overstate their importance to the whole watch-world. I do like their latest endeavors with the MoonSwatch and, to a lesser extent, the Fifty Fathoms (although there are price/build quality issues, IMO), but I wonder just how relevant or "cool" they still are. Used to be that when I wanted a GADA watch (or one for a beach holiday), I would simply get a swatch. But these days with pretty high quality Chinese watches and more affordable Swiss Made entry-level alternatives than Hamilton or Tissot, I'm not so sure. Inability to service/repair them should probably be taken into consideration, but I will say that their pieces seem to last way longer than one might expect - or at least all the ones I owned did.

Agree with seiko right away before I even finish the video..

Interesting take, thank you. Rankings are always problematic because they are so subjective. Brands/models that 'speak' to one person mean nothing to another no matter how sound a proposition they may be. My take is as follows: Timex, Orient, Invicta, Swatch, DW = not on my radar and not interested in owning one. Hamilton, Casio = OK but for me there are better options out there. Hamilton is overpriced now and military-style watches do not really appeal to me. Casio I quite like and have owned in the past but nothing they are offering at the moment tempts me to buy. Citizen = I own several of their watches and no doubt will buy more. Quite desirable, affordable prices, nicely made, reliable, Eco-Drive is great. However, Tissot and Seiko offer many more watches that appeal to my tastes and possess an 'X-Factor' that Citizen can't quite match somehow . . . again my personal opinion, others will see things differently. I wouldn't pay RRP for either Tissot or Seiko though. Bide your time and look out for special offers and sales which are all over the place at the moment. So my top brands would be Tissot and Seiko jointly with Citizen as honourable runner-up. Certina deserves to squeeze on to the podium too. Smaller range, slightly higher prices, not as widely available but a great option nonetheless . . . as long as you don't pay RRP of course.

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Thank you very much for your take! It's very well argued and as you say, this is subjective stuff, everyone's Tier List will be different, but that's why we love them 😁

@paulc9588

2 ай бұрын

@@Horologique Always a pleasure, your channel is great.

Thank you to talk about AFFORDABLE watches in a tier-list

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

My pleasure 👍

Just wondering about Bulova

“Friends don’t let friends buy invicta “ .

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

😂

@daviddiehl8523

2 ай бұрын

I've heard that 🧐😅

True story. Late 1970's my brother visited Japan and bought a Seiko. The first with the red digital display. It was waterproof, dustproof, anti magnetic, worked at 20,000 meters and 100 metres under water, accurate to 1 second a year and would stand +/- 50G accelerario or deceleration. Great, until a short circuit in the battery compartment. The watch caught fire !!!

@Horologique

Ай бұрын

Incredible! Sometimes the ambition is there but not the technology. What happened for it to catch fire, do you know? Or was it just spontaneous?

@akisjohn9280

Ай бұрын

@@Horologiqueit was thrown in fire

Would love to see Wise and Henry Archer in this competition...they are just ridiculous value for money

I agree with you for most of your choices. I would have put Hamilton in Don't Buy, Seiko in Master (even if I understand your point), and Timex in decent. Invicta is Trash and Swatch is decent.

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Thank you! Yes, your choices are understandable, that's the beauty of this very subjective exercice 😁

Qué te parece el precio de $276 por un Citizen Arezzo de 40mm Eco-drive? Excelente video por cierto

@lecoiffeurdelem2017

2 ай бұрын

Ví una saliendo ~$100 en eBay

@edulopez2140

2 ай бұрын

@@lecoiffeurdelem2017 gracias, gracias, lo buscaré

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

No conocía ésta gama pero se ve muy bien! Muy elegante

Casio and Seiko best.

I thinck you forgot Glycine , an incredible brand with quality product , history and swiss made

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Totally, next year I'll include them, I believe they're great actually

I don't get how Tissot is even on thisl list without offering a mechanical watch ( I don't care for quartz ) under 600 €. But my perspective of what is "affordable" differs from a lot of youtubers, obviously. My Top Dog would still be Orient with their Maestro series. Good looking, ok sized (a little too big), absurdly accurate and with a 100m water resistance. For under 200 €.

Casio above the "decent" brands? Marketing geniuses...

Sur la majeure partie des marques (et cela concerne tous les youtubeurs montres), on parle souvent de marques qui ont beaucoup trop augmenté leurs prix. Mais vous avez tendance à oublier que sur ces dernières années, l'inflation a été très très forte et donc les marques ont ajusté les prix en conséquence pour conserver les marges. Aussi, on compare aussi souvent des montres qui ont évolué. Les Seiko alpinist d'aujourd'hui, sont techniquement meilleures que celle d'avant. Meilleur mouvement, meilleure réserve de marché etc. Les Hamilton khaki field aussi c'est pareil. 80h de réserve de marche à présent. Il ne s'agit donc pas tout à fait des mêmes montres. Difficile de fait de comparer.

Seiko need to stop using hardlex

Salut Olivier, tu viens de quelle région ?

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Hello! Je viens d'Equateur, mais je vis en France depuis plus de 20 ans

@gabelov

2 ай бұрын

@@Horologique Ah wow ! J’avais détecté un très léger accent mais impossible de savoir lequel. :)

Invictas are horrid watches im embarrassed to say I bought one back in the day in Cancun way overpaid I just didnt know any better then. Some of there recent watches are just horrendous I dont know how they are still in businesses.

Perso aucune de ces marques ne mérite le "top dog". Orient, Citizen, Seiko et Hamilton en "Master" - Tissot et Casio en Decent, Invicta en "don't buy" et DW en "Trash". Après, chacun son "viewpoint". Bonne continuation !

@Horologique

2 ай бұрын

Merci pour ton commentaire, tout à fait, à chacun son point de vue, c'est la beauté de cet exercise :)

you missed Mido

Okay I'm 16 minutes in and just put Timex into the Masters. Timex makes a bunch of garbage and it's overpriced. Now if it was the same watches but price that they're actually worth and it would be decent. On top of that you look at Invicta with a bias they make thousands of watches and you just talk about two models that non watch people know. I seriously question your taste and your expertise. This is your favorite brands based on your bias not based on actual data.

The Invicta 1953 under 50 $?? I never seen it under 100 $ Timex Master? They overprice their watches givin you less than Orient

@Musashi413

Ай бұрын

I've bought various versions of the Invicta Pro Diver (even automatics) for around $60 - $70. Don't buy from their TV shopping channel, but from their manufacturer website. They employ the same "eternal sale" tactics on their manufacturer website, but prices there are generally less than from any other outlet, and they have short-lived flash sales and discount codes that offer great value, if you're quick enough.

How is Daniel wellington even good enough for the trash? 😂

Hamilton is top dog, you are so wrong about this brand😁

Definitely disagree with Casio...they make some of the best value and some of the worst value watches of any brand

Sorry, but, Hamilton must be in top category, between these brands... Hamilton movements are really excellent & accurate, most of automatic movts of Hamilton, better than Rolex in timekeeping...

Orient better be at the top.. thinking to myself as I start the video.. Unfortunately after watching the video I must unsubscribe, not recommend and ban this channel. Orient and Orient Star make dozens of Top Dog watches at exceptional value. Their designs stand alone in many cases and they have a rich history with super awesome retro designs. One error on one batch on one model is meaningless. Re-do the video whole thing and put Orient at the Top Dog status immediately.

@akisjohn9280

Ай бұрын

Because you own the brand or what….get lost

@avenueb

Ай бұрын

@@akisjohn9280 Because I have analyzed the entire market over many years and reached informed decisions, dips..

@JonysiguelVEVO

27 күн бұрын

Geez man you can disagree no need to ban a channel lol

@avenueb

26 күн бұрын

@@JonysiguelVEVO whatever it takes to set the record straight

@rf_v6

26 күн бұрын

⁠@@avenueb 👈🏼👈🏼👈🏼 what a clown🤡 no one buying orient these days.. but you😂 get a life🤣😂😭

There are Chinese brands with far superior watches and none on the list (San Martin, Baltany, Cronos, Proxima, Seagull, Seestern.......)

@blake70505

Ай бұрын

I think it's because those companies are just making borderline counterfeits. If they actually had original designs instead of intellectual property crimes, maybe he would have listed them.

@Horologique

Ай бұрын

Totally, and if you check the channel videos you can see 8 cover them extensively. However I didn't include them on this list because they are not the same kind of companies, they don't sell through the same channels and they are different enough to maybe try and make a dedicated Tier List

Video is too long, should be 10-12 min in my opinion.