Plant geneticist here. This looks more like an F2 segregating population, or an accidental cross pollination between Delicata and a F1 hybrid variety. In a straight cross between delicata and a non hybrid variety like a zucchini or an acorn squash you should get a very uniform population, since these non-hybrid varieties should be largely homozygous. The fact that you got so much variation in 4 plants leads me to believe that at least one of the parents was a F1 variety. I think your work is great! keep it up!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is very interesting! I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Had to look up 'homozygous' - so much to learn!

@ahabthecrab

Жыл бұрын

I agree with you on these being an F2 generation but I think that most likely two F1 hybrids are the parents. There seems to be too much diversity with this harvest for a Delicata parent and an F1 hybrid.

@theressomelovelyfilthdownh4329

Жыл бұрын

I'm not disagreeing with what you have to say on crossing/genetics. In fact, I may be picking your brain soon on tomato genetics. Have you seen anything about the dwarf tomato project? They did some very interesting work, producing a wide range of new dwarf plants from gardeners all over the world. Anyway, my point is more from a "how did the seeds get to the packet?" kind of view. Wouldn't any seeds you get in a packet come from a wide range of plants? Surely they process a fair few fruits at a time, even for small commercial providers? So the odds are against you getting any seeds from the same plant, never mind fruit. What I'd say happened here It is that the seed provider did not allow adequate space between the fields growing the seed crop. Neither of the two types of squash mentioned are known for their warty skin. To my eye, I see the signs of three different squash here. In which case, that seed provider is going to regret trying to maximise their growing area. It would be very easy to think that the large number of flowering plants other than squash would make it unlikely for an insect to go from one field to the other. But squash throws out a lot of large, showy flowers, the largest you'll see in most vegetable gardens or fields. And it's the same for flying insects. Their ability to pick up on tiny scent traces carried on the wind is outstanding. Like the tiny carrot fly, the bane of many gardeners. In the same way, you can most likely get away with only one apple tree in a town or city. Somebody near enough will most likely have an apple tree for it to work. It's also why people say things like "That apple tree took eight years to give any decent fruit". It was most likely somebody else a mile or two away, planting another tree you have no idea even exists. Insects work incredibly hard, alongside having these seemingly super human powers. Squash are also the hussies of the vegetable world, and will cross with anything nearby. I don't save seed from any squash I grow on my allotment plot for that reason. It's either an F1, or will have crossed with my others. Still, if you want a fun project. Squash may not be a bad way to go, if you can limit/control the crossing later.

@opcn18

Жыл бұрын

Since n=4 it's also possible that this was seed from 4 different father varieties all together. If squash were just left to develop in the field without taking precautions any number of varieties could have been involved in the crossing.

@nefraial

Жыл бұрын

As a seed grower for the last 40 years my view is this case is a lot worse than an accidental cross or an F2 segregating population. There's just too much diversity here. Having that much diversity in such a small sample tells me the seed saver is no better than the average inexperienced home gardener. It seems someone decided, just because a fruit "looks like" something then it is that something and made money selling the seeds. I would not call any of them Delicata squash as paid for. Warts and no warts, varying skin texture, odd colours, odd shapes, different flavour, different texture, varying disease resistance in plants. Even different seed quality within the fruit. There would have been plenty of diversity in the parent crop. I see bad seed saving more and more often. While there has always been bad seed saving, particularly by the novice and small growers as well, over the last 25 years I've noticed ever-increasing amounts of seed from large and supposedly reliable seed companies not being true to type. Being "true to type" is important for seed saving a variety. A person must know the traits bred into the variety for it to be known as that variety and follow the practice to keep those traits. Even OP varieties should maintain variety traits, or at least the main qualities desired from what is grown. Good seed saving maintains very minimal differences between individual plants while keeping the variety traits at the fore and not bottle necking genetics to the point where crops become weak. There needs to be some differences, with every crop having some outliers which maintains genetic strength, but never anything obvious to the inexperienced. There is a lot more to variety seed saving than simply growing plants and collecting seeds. Sadly, the growing and seed saving skills, knowledge of species and details required to maintain varieties over the long term is extremely rare these days.

In a family garden cross pollinating squash is interesting . Saving seeds year after year I get to grow new stains each time. Some are worth saving. Some end up in the compost. My goal is to find a disease resistant variety that tastes good. It's been hit and miss but fun just the same. I found that spraying a dilute solution of baking soda in water can mitigate powdery mildew .

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like fun, and a lot of space.

@MrBazz420

Жыл бұрын

you

This is how I got into breeding squash lol. Discovered a pumpkin/zucchini hybrid and thought maybe I could create more.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I'm thinking of trying to do something with the dark skinned type, to try to work it into a stable new variety. Will probably take years though!

@lizxu322

Жыл бұрын

Good luck! I wish you the best and who knows maybe your creation will be sold in grocery stores all over!

I've had so many cross pollination incidents with squash and pumpkin, that I've come to believe it's impossible to prevent entirely. Those varieties are foreign to me, but going to check it out. Thanks for another good episode Bruce.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is interesting and unfortunate, to have so many cross pollination issues. I was wondering where you got most of your seeds?

@SimpleEarthSelfReliance

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens unfortunately most of them came from a fairly large (but not dominant) seed company here, but I would rather take blame for my own misfortunes. My seed saving saving hygiene may have been a little poor. As you mentioned, these events are reminders to apply hygiene in the seed saving process.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

@@SimpleEarthSelfReliance Yeah, it is definitely something to think about. Before I noticed this cross pollination issue, I was thinking of saving the seeds of some of the first squash that formed on these 'Delicata' plants, as they flowered earlier than any of the variety trial squash that I sowed later. I figured it was good enough 'hygiene' because the Crown Prince in the same bed was a different species. It was only while making this video I realised that the courgette plants would have cross pollinated with them, so they would have been suspect anyway!

@David_Bell_growing

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens When saving squash (mainly Marrow) seeds, I tie the tips of both male and female flowers the day before they open. You get to recognise just the right time for this, when some yellow shows through. I mark the flower locations with a couple of vertical tagged canes as I find it all too easy to forget where they were by the following morning. Then cut the tiedmale early the following morning, watching out for bees as they will go for it in your hand or or lying on the ground as soon as you open it, whilst you untie the female, manually pollinate and re-tie the female flower. Often the female flower petals get damaged in the un-tying, so I have some small pieces of fleece ready to completely cover the flower and tie with string around the flower stem. Then I tie a plant label on the vine marked with details of the pollination. Remove any covering after a few days and always pollinate a backup as sometimes they abort for no apparent reason. Seeds removed from the front end of a long squash are supposed to be better than those behind, also seeds from females pollinated using males from another plant, but exactly same variety/genetics, are also supposed to be superior.

@theressomelovelyfilthdownh4329

Жыл бұрын

@@David_Bell_growing People forget that insects work really hard, and that squash will cross at the drop of a hat if there's another squash plant anywhere nearby. You need to grow them miles apart for commercial seed. You're also not going to get two seeds from the same plant in a packet of seeds. You should look up the dwarf tomato project, if you haven't already. It's pretty crazy that gardeners around the world can produce so many new dwarf tomatoes. But then, you marrow growers have been at the same craic for years as well.

Thanks so much Bruce! I got an interesting squash cross once where the one half (front or back) was green and the other yellow with a very clear contrast and demarcation.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is an interesting cross.

Honestly, these weirdo hybrids can be a lot of fun to grow. We sometimes get a squash plant or two pop up in the compost pile, and it’s usually not any sort of straight variety, but often make excellent fall display pieces if nothing else.

@REDGardens

4 ай бұрын

They are cool, but I find disappointing in the kitchen!

creating a land race variety. by selecting seed from the plants that do best each year,and taste best ,store best produce a strain best adapted to your location, some cross pollination can produce more vigorous plants and if selected over time can combine the best of the different characteristics

@julienhennequart33

Жыл бұрын

It's interesting, but a very hard thing to do It means that you can't allow any cross polination if you want to obtain consistant fruits So no squash growing of the same species Cross polination can give you better but also many worse squash, so once you found one that you like, you should prevent any crosses Or you can give up the consistency but you have to be prepared with throwing away some, as in the video

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I think that may be a hard thing to do with squash, especially as there are so few seeds used in each generation/year. I suspect working towards a landrace would be easier with something like carrots that I woful grow many of.

I would recommend Uchiki Kuri as a second variety. It's early maturing so perfect for the British climate and I've had consistently good results. The squash have a sweet nutty flavour 💚

Something very similar happened to me several years ago when I bought seeds of a variety called Lunga di Napoli. From the four plants I grew that year, each one produced different shape of fruits. Apart from the shape, I didn't notice any difference, they all grew the same way, produced the same and tasted the same. Buying hybrid seeds will probably always be the safe bet as the seed growers have to manually pollinate each flower and isolate it, whereas when growing for seeds of a stable variety, I doubt the same level of isolation is done. They probably just grow the same variety in one space apart from the others, but with no guarantee a bee won't randomly fly between them.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I think you are right about the hybrid seeds. They have a very different process and care for the pollinating, and are much more expansive.

There is a kind of seed you get in the US where the vine grows all different kinds of squash on the same vine. I was going to try it next year but seeing thick skinned and different textures on yours made me rethink committing the space to random stuff I don't know already. Thanks man.

@Pixieworksstudio

Жыл бұрын

that is fascinating. I would be really interested in that and how they produced it etc

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I have the same feelings, both intrigued by the possibility, but not wanting to give over space to a possible failure. The really hard skinned squash that grew really surprised me!

@Pixieworksstudio

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens Yes, the space is a problem for me too

I can't wait for the video about the squash variety test:-)

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

🙂

Thank you for this informative video. Very thought provoking.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

🙂

Thanks for sharing!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

🙂

thank you!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

🙂

Excellent

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Thanks

Interesting episode! Hopefully you get a chance to grow some actual delicata squash next year. We grow in a similar context (PNW, Washington) to yours and they are absolutely one of our favorites.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I am looking forward to it!

Excellent much appreciated!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

🙂

i think next spring im gonna try to experiment more with different squashes. i already crossed some acorn squash and zucchini and im hoping to add even more types to the roster. this was my first year properly growing stuff from seed. before it was buying plants from the store. its fun seeing how the genes on plants express themselves. some of them had white edges and spots on them and i thought it was a disease or something but it turns out its a natural coloration.

Thank goodness this came out today I was literally just thinking about this topic with this specific variety of squash!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

🙂

I created a new cucubita pepo variety accidentally from what I believe was a blaze pumpkin and a white acorn squash.

@billyd7628

9 ай бұрын

yeah the round stereotypical pumpkins, acorn squash and zucchini are the same species. stuff like butter nut and cushaw sqaush meanwhile are different species of squash. so you gotta be careful and not plant those 3 together but you can plant butternut with zucchini, cushaw and hubbard and they wont cross. C. pepo , C moscthata, c. mixta , c.maxima the 4 species of domesticated squashes.

This is an awesome video. Thank you. I grow lots of squash and have lots of weirdness. It's fun to watch how you think it through.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

🙂

Awesome.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

🙂

Very informative! As always! And thank YOU for sharing your experience!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

🙂

Brown Envelope Seeds have an open pollinated vine Delicata Candy Stick seed (comes originally from Carol Deppe - Oregon I think) which I have grown quite successfully in a tunnel for the past four or five years in north county Cork. I have given up growing any squash outside - wind and rain make it very hit and miss for the space they take up. I first tasted Delicata in PNW and my ones taste much the same. I have just bought a bush variety - Honey Boat -also from Oregon. I'm going to try that next year. Happy to share some of the 50 seeds with you if you're interested in trying it again. Don't write delicata off - it is delicious 0 both in sweet and savoury dishes and stores really well!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I'll have to check out the Brown Envelope Seeds supply. Looking forward to a proper taste of the variety.

As someone who is a home gardener, I am at the point of saving seed from year to year on varieties I like. It's interesting to see what might happen when I have a cross-pollination of varieties I like. Or even just from a neighborhood garden.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

It was a really useful thing for me to see, or at least to see when the cross pollination was so obvious, as I suspect a lot of times it isn't when saving seeds, at least at first.

@pavlovssheep5548

Жыл бұрын

if you decide to keep your on squash seed , hand pollination would be the best way to stop cross pollination , and protecting flower during receptive period in a mesh or cloth bag . . it handy that squash are one of the easiest plants to hand pollinate

Delicata can be harvested in two ways. One is to eat it mid-season when it has gained sufficient growth but is still tender. The latter is to let it mature to a hard shell and then it is treated like most winter squash.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Both sound good.

I had this problem with Franchi's carrots this year. I planted several hundred square feet of beds for early market and had to compost all of them, looked even worse than the carrots you showed. I've had good luck with their other veg but will be avoiding them for carrots in the future, saving a few bucks on seeds cost me $1000 in sales. These days I only have 3-4 seed companies I buy from, not the cheapest but the quality is what matters when you consider the time and effort put into growing them, and the opportunity cost of not growing something else.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is tough to lose so much because of bad seed!

It looks like "Delicata" crosed with "Early Prolific". A summer squash like zucchini. Both are C. pepo. They have thin skin when they are 6 inches long and 6 days old. When they get big and age, they get those bumps and turn a deep yellow and hard skin. I have some old ones upstairs for decoration. I dont think acorns are pepo.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is interesting, I’d does have some of the characteristics.

This summer I had green onions, yellow onions and elephant garlic growing and I left the ones that bolted for the bees. They all pollinated and made seeds, and the seeds are viable. I went ahead and planted them all. Maybe I'll get something weird, maybe they'll grow true to type. I've been using the young shoots as chives and they all taste 'oniony'. The only thing that matters right now is I know for a fact they'll grow in my area with little input from me.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Will be interesting to see how well they produce.

I have this issue with peppers fairly often... I often hear that they don't readily cross-pollinate but they most definitely do.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is interesting.

Hi Bruce I grew Hungarian Blue and Butternut this year. I have similar climate to you, but struggle to get Butternut to ripen. The Hungarian blue germinates in low temperature which is a benefit to get large fruit. Thanks for the video 👍

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I have not been able to get a butternut squash to ripen!

@kayreynolds3801

8 ай бұрын

We have too short a season in the UK for growing butternut as they take a long time to mature...so many other lovely squash to grow. I had great success this year with crown prince, Hungarian Blue and Uchiki Kuri.

Oh goodness, I can't wait to see the results of the squash (looks like maxima?) trial. I did one this year and had some overlapping varieties.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

It wasn't a great trial, started late and in not great soil conditions, but very interesting to see.

Awesome! I hope I get some freaky tiki squashes from my non-segregated seeds this year!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

👍

Dark green with orange spot…looks like NE Long Pie Pumpkin. Let them sit for a few weeks and will turn into all orange.

Your experience with Accidental Cross-Pollination very closely resembles what happened to my Delicata plants this year! I had a wide variation in size, shape and color. I also live in a cool climate, in Northern Michigan, USA. There were other varieties of squash planted not too far away, including acorn.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is interesting, and worrying. The cross pollination would have happened with whoever saved the seed you grew, and I wonder if the same supplier is sending seeds to USA and Europe.

Delicotta squash is very good, very good flavor.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I'm looking forward to trying it.

fried delicata slices are pretty spectacular

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I'll have to try them!

This year I've had a variety of winter squash produce different shaped/coloured fruits on each plant, plus their growth habit was more like bush than the trailing/climbing they should've been. Some of my F1 Red Alert tomatoes produced orange fruits in lieu of red. All the the F1 Suncherry Premium tomato seeds I bought produced the exactly the same vastly inferior F2 plants that I previously got when checking how true saved seed plants were. And in 2019/2020? there were numerous packets of courgette seeds sold that had crossed with poisonous ornamental gourds and eating these courgettes made people I'll. I checked my seeds and found 2 of the affected packets, but hadn't sown them. Plus I've read of numerous people getting wrong varieties in the packets. I have lost a lot of trust in seed producers/suppliers, and if you complain most offer to send you another packet! (too late to sow and probably just the same). One seed company prints the use by date/batch on the end of their packets that you tear off to open them, then request that information if they fail.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I hadn't heard about the poisonous courgette cross! Wow!

@gabriellakadar

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens The article was in The Guardian UK. Tim Dowling July 17, 2021. Followed up on July 24, 2021.

I grew acorn squash this year and thought I had 2 squash plants but one was pumpkin. Thais why I had some orange in them and one was long and orange. I will see how it tastes.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Seems to be a lot of that mixup around.

Very interesting project! I live in Florida and this summer planted two winter squash varieties, kabocha and butternut. Timing of male and female flowers was an issue in that I often did not have male flowers on the butternut vines but lots of female flowers. I also have unusual bees that take the pollen from male flowers and do not visit female flowers most likely because they have no pollen. With these two situations, I tried hand pollinating the butternut female flowers with the kabocha male flowers and it worked. The resulting fruits are green striped until mature where they turn the characteristic butternut color with faint remnants of stripes and deep orange flesh with a flavor somewhere between a kabocha and a butternut. Kabocha squash do not do as well as butternut in Florida heat so I did not get many fruits but they have an amazing flavor somewhat similar to a sweet potato.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That sounds really interesting. Did you sow a number of different plants of the cross, and if so did you notice much variation between them?

@ahabthecrab

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens I will try planting the cross in early spring when it warms up here in NE Florida. Kabocha is not very popular in the US but I think they are trying to open the market on it. They are also called Butter cup squash.

I had the same problem this year with Delecata and with Spaghetti squash. I have no idea what I ended up with, but hopefully all edible.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is worrying!

I’ve grown uchiki kuri for three years now but I’m saving seed for the first time to use next year. It’s the only squash I grow so hoping it’s ok. I might just use bought seed for a couple of plants as an insurance policy as I would fate to be without them.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I think a lot depends on if any of your neighbours also grow squash.

I've had SO much trouble the last 3 years with squash seed purchased even from reputable companies being cross pollinated. It's very very frustrating.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is frustrating. Now I wonder how much of the variety trial I am doing is actually the actual variety!

@Tinaejs

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens such a waste of time and space. And what can you do? Try to get a refund on your seeds? It wouldn't even come close to making up for what was put into it. I'm on the hunt for a company with a bulletproof guarantee. 2 companies I know I purchased cross pollinated seeds from are MI Gardener and Johnny's.

@helendennis7662

Жыл бұрын

There will be smaller scale seed producers that pay real attention to cross pollination when they sell multiple varieties, they keep them far enough apart to avoid the issue. I think my goal is to find a really good variety that grows well with me, and only grow that one, then save its seed. But I know myself and I like so many different ones 😂 so the solution is probably to have several “pumpkin patches” of heritage varieties far enough apart to avoid cross pollination as I’ll want to save seed from them.

@ramz1455

Жыл бұрын

@@Tinaejs Interesting, may I know which type of squash did you buy in order for me to avoid purchasing them?

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

@@Tinaejs I image a lot of the seed companies are getting their seeds from the same producer. I can't imagine there are many seed producers for many of the varieties out there, and if there is a problem with the seed, it could be the same issue from many different resellers.

Fascinating! That's not an issue I've ever had, so it's very interesting to see your results. With regard to the original trial, I can definitely recommend delicata, which I have grown for several years. As the fruit continue to ripen (in storage mostly in my case), the characteristic green stripes will gradually turn orange. In addition to the qualities you mention, I find it a very flexible squash to grow in the garden, because the relatively small size of the fruit means it can be trellised quite imaginatively without issue. I have found "sweet dumpling" to be a variety that is quite similar. I've sourced my seeds from Kokopelli in France, if you're looking for a reliable EU producer. Did I see some black futsus there in your variety trial montage? I tried some of them this year quite successfully but haven't eaten any of it yet, so jury's out.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Interesting, thanks for the details. Producing smaller squash definitely makes letting them climb a lot more viable. I'll check out Kokopelli, thanks.

I find this subject so interesting, and growing squash is just my favourite bit of gardening. They are just so fascinating. Are you going to have a bit of fun with one or two seeds from them? I did grow Delicata, but from one plant I got 3 mediocre fruits. I haven't eaten them yet though. I saw a video once, and I just can't remember where but it was about a small company that seed saves. She said she buys fishing maggots to hatch for pollination of low plants. I had problems with pollination this year especially in the tunnel, even though I had loads of attractive flowers like nasturtiums and calendula. I read that plants produce less pollen when it is very hot. It must be so frustrating for the growers that keep the same variety going just to sell the seeds, and along come seeds from less reputable growers. Something we maybe need to keep an eye on. Are you growing a lot of winter stuff?

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking of exploring some more, growing the seeds from the dark green type of squash. I think hand pollination is the way to go when seed saving. I haven't had much time to get in a lot of winter stuff, but hoping to sow more this week.

@Pixieworksstudio

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens Yes, they look good. Hand pollination is the way to go I think too, and here I don't think I would have had half as many squashes if I didn't. The small summer squash I found prolific and very tasty is Baby boo. A month later and I still have some stored. It'll be great to see what you plant over winter there as our climates are similar, mind you I'm sure you deserve some time off :)

This was an incredibly interesting accident

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

🙂

if you decide to keep your on squash seed , hand pollination would be the best way to stop cross pollination , and protecting flower during receptive period in a mesh or cloth bag . . it handy that squash are one of the easiest plants to hand pollinate

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I agree, hand pollination is the way to go, with taped or bagged flowers. I just don't think it is worth the effort otherwise.

As much as I love the idea and the practice of seed saving, I only have so much time and attention to oversee it. I stick to easy ones: potatoes, multiplier onions, garlic, peanuts, black beans.There's a small farm just half a mile up the road, so keeping any open pollinated varieties true to form is difficult. Squash/pumpkins are one of those that I have given up on, not because of the "poison squash" fears, (I'm pretty sure the taste will be obvious is it became a problem) but because of the unpredictable and sometimes dissatisfying results, even if there is only one variety directly here in my garden. I am working on a few multiplier onion variations, though, letting them overwinter and bolt, but once I have something I'm happy with, I'll just grow those via normal clone propagation. If that works well, I may give it a shot with garlic, too. As always, thank you for sharing your careful observations, analysis, and experience with the world, Bruce!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I agree! The time and attention is one of the things that put me off seed saving for quite a few years. I'm doing a lot more now, but not sure how I will manage some types, especially the brassicas, as so many people in the area let them go to flower. Though I am thinking of trying to see if I can work the darker green type into a viable and stable new variety. It will likely take years, but I was impressed with its taste and that it matured quickly.

@Emeraldwitch30

Жыл бұрын

Squash are actually quite easy to keep pure as you are not saving seed for an entire country lol. I just go out in the evening and use blue painters tape to tape all the female and male blooms closed that I want to keep. Usually only a couple fruits off 2 or 3 vines. Well I kinda do more but I worry that the deer will eat them so I try to cover all my bases. Then next morning before my coffee andc quite early I go out and u tape the female and pick the male to pollinate then once they are done I right away tape the female back up tight. Usually in a day or 2 you will know if it worked or not. Once the fruit is set and swelling I don't worry anymore. I just tag the fruit with a red ribbon and later as it hardens and ripens with a sharpie marker. Everyone in my family knows not to touch the red ribbon fruits in the garden. I save from at least 2 to 3 squash each year I'm saving. I bag my pole bean blooms with those organza bags that are made for wedding favors. Same with peppers and tomatoes. Looks goofy out in the garden but I'm saving mainly for me and enough for 2 maybe 3 seasons (in case of rogue deer attacks or crop failure)so I am not saving the entire row. Just the best plants bloom bracts. Once I see fruit has set I tag with red ribbon and pull off the organza bag. There are quite a few things I don't grow enough of to try tho like carrots or parsnips. I should think of it tho. Who knows how hard things may get. Also with other things I try to stage planting where they are not blooming same time. My overwintered turnips bloomed before the broccoli and I didn't let any radishes bloom so they should be pure. No one but me gardens much other than flowers so my garden is quite isolated for at least 4 miles. But I live in the countryside too. I find seed saving quite relaxing and fun and I have dabbled in crossing things. My best cross was purple podded pole beans and blue lake pole beans. I saved seed from the blue lakes as the mother. I ended up with a lovely long skinny round bean that the most lovely lavender color. But it was too much to try and keep back breeding it to stabilize it. And my favorite yellow pole bean didn't grow well this year so im going to start with fresh stock and hope territorial seed company vets their seed supplier to replace it. Sorry. I ramble as a gardener. I get carried away lol

@fxm5715

Жыл бұрын

@@Emeraldwitch30 Excellent idea! I'll have to try that myself next season.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

@@Emeraldwitch30 Thanks for all the (rambling 🙂) details! So interesting to hear about the details of what other growers do. I plan to do some hand pollination like that of squash next year.

Ive tried Delicata twice and will not again, failed both times, not sure why. Acorns are my go to, but will try crown prince next season, it looks to be a good one from your pics.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Interesting that you had bad experience with the Delicata. The plants I grew were great, and very productive, but just not true 'Delicata'.

Sounds a bit worrying actually - there was a National Geographic article on facebook a couple of days ago saying how vegetables are losing their nutritional value - it was a locked article but I might chase it down (your carrot segment reminded me of it). Let's hope it's not sinister.. Very interesting. I was going to grow 2 varieties of pumpkins this year but will now just grow one - butternut.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I don't know if that owed be linked. I suspect someone didn't give enough distance between seed saving varieties.

If the taste of the replanted saved seed produces a bitter squash, throw it and the seeds in the trash. Although rare, toxic squash syndrome from crossed varieties is real

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the warning!

🎃🎃🎃 very good!!!!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

I grew Cornell’s Delicata this season which had dark orange flesh and incredible flavour and not the washed out yellow flesh of your most likely Delicata sample. Perhaps in your context it would fare better in the poly tunnel and encouraged to climb rather than sprawl. I found the fruits to be fairly small by squash standards. Worth the premium growing space on flavour in my opinion, but looks like it might be hard to beat crown prince in your context.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the description. I think you are right about the polytunnel space. How many squash do you normally get from one plant?

yep cross pollisation indeed.... I'm still a huge fan of the delicata, but not sure why i had really good results this year in productivity about 2times better i usually have. ( belgium) About the seeds company their is a real problem to me for squash and co, and as a collector for tomatoes. ( Too many time disapointed ) When i was working for a seed company, the field was far about 800m form the nearest house, and so we were giving free seeds of the same variety we were multiply in about 1500m form the field....

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I do wonder what kind of setup that seed company that produced these seeds had, where it was located, and how far from other potential gardens. This is all important stuff.

I had similar issues in 2018 and 2019, also with packets of Delicata. One plant produced fruit indistinguishable from Sweet Dumpling. One plant produced hard-skinned fruit that were very dark green and much larger than Delicata and I wonder whether the pollen parent was something more of the marrow persuasion. These were not good eating.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Very interesting that you also had problems with the Delicata, and very different results.

I've had the same problem with one older hard to find variety of tomato. After getting a couple weird off types the first year, I bought seeds of the same variety from a different source. Again, this new seed produced a couple weird off types. I am not sure if the issue is that both these suppliers sourced their seed from the same producer, or if it's a greater problem that effects all plants of this variety. As if the variety had been poorly maintained in a bottleneck at some point, and all the descendants of that strain are a bit squirrely. I plan on trying to stabilize a strain of it, but as I don't know what the original was exactly like, I wouldn't be able to say it's the same tomato. It will be an interesting if time consuming project.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I think in a lot of cases there is one main producer for the variety, and all of the seeds you can get are the same. Or at least I suspect that within a region like Europe. And once there is a mess-up with the variety/strain, then it seems to take a long time to get back to the original, whatever that is.

6:25: that looks very much like a cross with the so called "yellow crookneck squash" which is one of my favourite but has nothing to do with the characteristics of delicata. Im in Co Cavan and never had success with delicata in the open ground, crown prince grows best and that yellow crookneck is also a really good one roasted and mixed with other with veg and meat.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

It is possible there were several different crosses.

You could stabilize out Crown Prince and adapt it to your area

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

It would be tough to stabilise a hybrid!

My acorn squash crossed with my pumpkin this year and I ended up with green/orange pumpkins lol. Still good tho

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Cool.

@billyd7628

9 ай бұрын

i crossed my yellow zucchini with acorn squash i wonder what they gonna look like this spring.

Try Delicata again. I think you will be happy with the result if it grows true to type.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I plan to.

Love Crown Price. Yet to find any comparable winter squash worth growing In uk. Never save seed as hybridisation is far too easy. True seed must always be f1 or not worth the garden space.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

It is a good one!

Hi last year I bought seeds from several sources including internet suppliers. Some of the wildflower seed I sent for though for a specific wild flower arrived as a mixed pack of about six different varieties of plants some of which I recognised and some not. These seeds came from China which I only discovered on their delivery. Needless to say I did not plant any of them. I do wonder how many people got these seeds and being unwary have planted seeds that will give us problems for years to come.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, that is a potentially problematic thing to be sowing!

I tried Delicata this year and out of my two plants got two differnet fruit results, so it might not be just your seed supplier.

@REDGardens

11 ай бұрын

I suspect that it happens quite a bit. And it is also possible that both suppliers are getting their seed stock from the same source. I doubt there are many mainstream professional seed savers that are saving seed for Delicata.

im thinking of using crown prince.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I like it, but also want to find other types of squash that grow well here.

@ThatBritishHomestead

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens they you have consicef me to try that one in the video tho

@ThatBritishHomestead

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens potato squash is so nice

could be they kept seed from a F1 plant thinking it was a fixed variety and F2 generation seeds tend to have wide variation (looks like at least one parent plant was an F1 producing F2 seed, as if two fixed varies crossed they would produce there own uniform F1 instead of the wide variety shown in the fruit )

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is interesting!

Where did you buy the carrot seed from.

@REDGardens

7 ай бұрын

Moles Seeds in the UK

so the crown prince is the (F1) variety? and it cannot reproduce ? looking at the (delicata) looks like it took the path of zucchini )or that's what mine did! the bumps remind me of our( warty wart )pumpkin very strange.. I wish I could blame the( F1) but ? who knows... I still don't understand this f1 hybrid so it doesn't need pollination? weird . any thoughts on( grapes) without seeds have you ever eaten any (taste great) but are they as nutritional? watermelons similar..? no seed wtf it seems odd great content as always..

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

As I understand it, the F1 hybrids have two very controlled parents, and the fist generation of the cross between them can produce very robust and uniform plants. But if you save seeds from this frost generation, then the second generation F2 will be very diverse, and not produce similar to the original cross. So the F1 plants can pollinate as normal, and produce viable seeds, but the seeds just won't grow what you want them to. Don't know enough about genetics, but that I is how I understand it at least.

Acorn and spaghetti squash taste nothing like delicata. Delicata are very sweet, dense, and dry with yellow flesh.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, didn't get that, apart from the dark green ones that ripened earlier.

I did not know about this issue involving cross pollination until this season. We moved to a new location last year and so I made a greater commitment to gardening. I planted pumpkin both pie and jack-o-lantern, acorn, zucchini, butternut, and yellow crookneck next to each other along a fence line. I saved some of the two varieties of pumpkin seeds along with some of the butternut. I planted those saved seeds along with new package seeds of yellow crookneck and zucchini. Other than the yellow crookneck which looks fine, I have no clue what is growing. What is coming is yellow, fat, oblong and hard on the outside - edible but not particularly desirable. There is just enough season left to start from scratch if I rip it all out. Should I do that or wait until next year and start anew now that I have learned a hard lesson?

@REDGardens

11 күн бұрын

Yeah, that is a hard lesson! In my climate there would not be enough time to start again, the season is too cool and short. If I could start again I would be tempted to, as I doubt you will be satisfied with the squash you end up with, beyond it being an ‘interesting’ experiment.

@lee1PA

11 күн бұрын

@@REDGardens Thanks. Time to re-plant.

Maybe the seeds of the hard-skin one are edible? These seeds could be good on salads and/or bread

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I will try them.

I've never grown hybrids but this makes me think stick with what I'm doing. I'm not sure why but hybrids to be feel risky from a food security point of view 😬

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I have a few hybrids that I really like, and I just buy in a load of seeds, enough for a few years, and store them in the freezer.

Maybe all of the squash seeds you grew there have genes from the green delicata

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is possible, but not sure where the really hard shell came from.

@TJtheHuman

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens I mean if you saved seeds from all four plants, as well as from the blue ones you grew next to them

That is frustrating. I can understand if you were growing from saved seed or something like that but getting seed from a supplier really shouldn't cause this. I know that a lot of seed suppliers in the US have started cutting corners to try and meet the demand over the last couple of years but that's no excuse. I grow a variety of squash called Seminole pumpkin and it is pretty stable but I have to be careful to avoid cross pollination because it takes on other traits like water and makes them very stable going forward. One year I had to basically throw out an entire batch of save seed because one of my test plants came back with a seminole pumpkin/ zucchini cross.... I don't even grow zucchini. I'm the only Gardener within a quarter mile. That was annoying

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, getting it from a mainstream supplier was really frustrating, and now I don't know who to trust! That is really interesting about the cross that you experienced, especially at those distances!

whether the price of chemical fertilizers in your place is also expensive....???

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

The price has gone up recently, but don't use any of the stuff on my gardens, relying on organic concentrates and compost.

@traditionalfarmer6299

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens your thinking is very good, how to apply compost to perennials or fruit plants that live long...

So the characterization of there being four species of squash that don't cross pollinate is a bit iffy. Not on the cross pollination part--that's mostly the case. But you're probably leaving out C. ficifolia, which is pretty rare, and including C. argyrosperma (syn. C. mixta, "cushaw") which is also not all that commonly grown. I have grown C. argyrosperma, but I don't know that I would suggest it for your area, as its greatest virtue seems to be resistance to the squash vine borer, comparable to butternut types (C. mochata). Given that you don't have that devastating insect, there's no reason to plant a rather bland squash with pale yellow flesh to avoid it.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I didn't know that. I had always read that there are 4 types/species.

Hey Bruce, I have access to multiple seed companies that sell these seeds. If you have trouble getting delicata or other seeds, let me know. I can send them to you (I live in the EU as well).

@Qopzeep

Жыл бұрын

Also looking forward to more variety trials!!! 🙂

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! I'll get back to you if needed.

Very non productive summer squash season for me.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

That is a shame.

Landrace! Embrace the diversity...

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Rather get something I can rely on with all the space they take up!

@CMiltonDixon

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens Fair enough. I'm personally interested in the genetic diversity and adaption to place...

Hmm, I thought that cross pollination only affected the seed the squash grows and not the fruit itself (in first generation). Then the fruit that those first generation, cross pollinated seeds grow in the second year would be of an unknown variety (the second generation fruit). I'm sure that is an oversimplification of it. Are you thinking your Delicata squash were cross pollinated with the acorn in your garden growing at the same time? Or are you thinking the seed company accidentally cross pollinated? Just trying to understand as I'm planning on growing a whole lot of squash this upcoming season. :-)

@REDGardens

5 ай бұрын

Yes, you have it right. I think the plants cross pollinated the previous generation. Whoever produced the seeds that I used messed up in the roguing or variety separation. As far as I know, cross pollination doesn't affect the squash of this season, only the seeds inside for the next generation.

its f2 tho. f1 are all the same

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

definitely not F1

Nope. Thats not how it happens. Cross pollination results in the seeds of the fruit becomming hybrid, not the fruit. If you took the seeds from the cross-pollinated fruit and planted them, you would get a hybrid, but cross pollinated fruits don't change.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I think the cross pollination happened with whoever grew the seeds that I planted.

Crosse pollination doesn't affect fruit ,just the next generation

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Yes, and this is the next generation that I planted. The cross pollination happened with whoever produced the seeds that I bought.

.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

.

It's unlikely that any of the seeds you get in a packet come from the same plant or fruit. They will have processed god only knows how many at a time, before they are packaged. You also seem to have a cross with more than one type of squash. If they two types of squash, they most likely grow three or four. Like crop rotation, you actually need a lot of space between both crops. You need another field well away from any other types of squash. They most likely tried to fit too many types for the given space between fields. I have never seen a thick warty skin on any I grew this past two years. Mind you, they were the small Honey-boat version. So I can't speak for all the others.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Good point about the seeds being from more than one fruit. If it is pollination from multiple different varieties, then I really would question the isolation procedures of the seed grower!

@theressomelovelyfilthdownh4329

Жыл бұрын

@@REDGardens The words "Sure it'll be grand" were prob spoken at some stage, man. I don't know what the recommended distance would be for a commercial grower. But you're talking miles between fields. And even then, a rural backyard vegetable plot can affect you. Insects also work really hard. Saving squash seed on an allotment may be a fun project. If you could somehow limit random crossing later. But not worth the bother outside of that. Tomatoes are a total 180. Most don't need insect's help, 90% of the time. So if you want to cross them, It's on you to step in and do it personally before the flower opens. By the time the flower has opened, they will have already been pollinated by that process. Nature isn't always perfect, and that's where the other 10% comes in. It may even be less than 5% chance of a random cross. That's why tomatoes are generally so reliable to save seed from. I'm not making excuses for the seed provider. But it is pretty hard to grow squash on mass for seed. On the other hand. If some ejjit like me with an allotment in Tyrone can figure out that it's hard to do properly. Why are they trying to play the odds, and fit more crops in a given area?

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

@@theressomelovelyfilthdownh4329 Good points, especially your last one about how people doing this professionally can't figure out how to do it properly!

If a farmer planting a large crop gets bad seeds, is that insurable? Is the seed company liable? Or is this just an act of god and a risk of farming? For a gardener this is probably just an annoyance but if a farmer had a large field much of this probably couldn't be sold, or sold at a deep discount.

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

I don't know, but bad seeds can be a disaster for a crop.

First!

@REDGardens

Жыл бұрын

Ummm …. Not!