I just fired my own therapist and I’m about to fire my son’s. We’re going old school-focusing more on social interaction, physical activity and time spent outside.

@MaryC-co8fm

Ай бұрын

Great. And faith. The family that prays together, stays together.

@lobsterbisque7567

Ай бұрын

@@MaryC-co8fm Agreed! In '22 decided to give a therapist a try for a short while after breaking up with my GF, and under going a career change. And it was a complete waste of time & money. The local church body/faith family that I had been a part of for the last 20yrs was going through massive changes due to a church merger happening at the time. So, instead of isolating and overthinking what went wrong in the relationship, I decided to trust the Lord, and put myself out there instead, and become more involved, and make myself more available to others. Not only with church events, but fellowship & social interactions with other church members from the other church body whom, up until that point, I had never met before. Being more closely involved in ppl's lives, and taking advantage of opportunites to serve/help others is what really helped me heal and gave me a healthy perspective. It was the counsel of others believers that helped me understand what happened during all stages of the relationship with their practical experiences & Biblical wisdom. They opened my eyes to what I needed to change in my outlook & mentality helped me let go of my anger & bitterness, and challenged me to grow in maturity. They showed me how to better regulate & deal with the emotions I was experiencing from the breakup so I wouldn't be trapped in regret & self pity. They reminded me what was truly important. Those precious interactions also proved my old way of thinking wrong. And helped me understand how I was sabotaging myself long before I entered into that relationship. I used to isolate myself, and not speak with anyone at church even though I considered them very close friends. on the rare occasions that I did interact with them, it was always very shallow. I had always struggled with my emotions for decades, and intentionally hid them from everyone at church. I knew they were trustworthy, they had proven that to me countless time in the past. I knew that if I ever asked any of them for any help or counsel, they would not hesitate. it was sincere b/c I knew that they cared. But for some reason, I chose to keep myself closed off from them. I had no reason to, I just felt miserable, and I didn't want to burden others. Which is contrary to what scripture says. It encourages us not only to fellowship, but to bear each other's burdens, and build into each other's lives. Looking back, I'm glad I took that risk, and opened up to a new group of friends and loved ones. I can say with complete honesty that I have never felt more content, and fulfilled than I do now. I'm so grateful to have such a large support network. My relationships with them mean more to me than any form of material wealth.

@baarons93

Ай бұрын

There was a report somewhere (sorry, too lazy to look it up but easy to be found, I promise) of an African tribe that asked missionaries to leave bc they were hurting more than they were helping by doing one-on-one therapy sessions. The tribe prioritized using traditional, prosocial, collaborative group healing to help the tribe heal from trauma. The individual therapy forced tribal members to relive the trauma over and over again. Doing more damage than the original trauma itself.

@iw9338

Ай бұрын

Good for you 😅❤

@ForedeckYoda

Ай бұрын

Stoic philosophy and action cures lots.

I worked in Corrections for 25 years. Earlier in my life, I also coached football, softball, and volleyball when I was a middle school teacher. I won't comment on young women--even though I raised 4 daughters--but I will tell you that the most important person in a young man's life is a morally responsible adult male, preferably, his father. Young men have such a desire to be like other solid men it isn't even funny. The failure of Men to be solid, responsible, disciplined and caring to their sons is the fastest was to create havoc in all areas of a society. We, unfortunately are seeing it now. Thanks for reading.

@sheerluckholmes7720

2 ай бұрын

👌 ...🏋‍♂

@cherylmockotr

2 ай бұрын

I will comment on young women for you... "the most important person in a young woman's life is a morally responsible adult male, - preferably her father."

2 ай бұрын

And how is it that we have this 'failure' on our hands?

@VaughanMcCue

2 ай бұрын

Rhetoric, or do you have some ideas?

@goodtalker

2 ай бұрын

@@cherylmockotr Thank you. Have a nice day.

I'm a doctor in psychology and surprised people staying in therapy for years. I believe clients are over pathologized.

@user-wg2vw3mz1v

2 ай бұрын

The known harms of _bad_ psychotherapy.

@markpostgate2551

2 ай бұрын

Do you think the profit motive may have something to do with it? Clearly a chronic patient would be more profitable than an acute one, so profit incentivises failure of the therapy! Make someone feel better and there is a potential stream of income gone, but give them just enough sense of improvement to keep them coming back but never get them to a position where they feel self-reliant and they could be milked for cash for years. What would be preferable, I guess, would be a model where the patient was not the customer but that the therapist was hired by the institution just to be there regardless of what the number of patients might be.

@edifiedreader

2 ай бұрын

Perhaps we should establish limits on therapy sessions? I’ve known people that stay in therapy for years and they just do it to have someone to talk to about general life problems. It’s not just a waste of their time and money, but it’s also a waste of time for the therapists who could be working with people that need more direct and immediate care. The point of any healthcare, mental or physical, is to make the patient well, i.e. no longer needing the treatment. So if you’re going to a therapist for years and years, then you should ask yourself: a) am I really getting better? b) is my therapist actually treating me? and c) do I want to get better? Its like if you took your car to a repair shop nonstop to get fixed, but it never gets fully repaired. At some point, you’d be highly suspicious of the mechanics and think they’re purposefully not fixing your car (maybe even damaging it) just to scam you out of money. And a car is a lot less important than your mental well-being!

@dharmaqueen7877

2 ай бұрын

I went to therapy briefly after a divorce twenty years ago and stopped when I imagined myself as the therapist listening to my "problems". It woke me up to how petty I was being.

@redleader7988

2 ай бұрын

We all deserve our meager profits, but what we're talking about here is profiting from fraudulent treatment of an obvious social contagion, which should be prosecuted fully.@@markpostgate2551

It is the result of the victim society we have created. As a teacher, I saw parents rush to blame everyone but their child for the slightest problem. They are given everything and held responsible for nothing. Shrier's explanation of the role schools play in these problems is spot on. Teachers are not social workers; they are not psychologists; they are not police; they are not the students' parent; they are not nurses. They are teachers and they need to teach. The schools are not responsible for correcting all of society's problems but they act like they are.

@whitedragondojo

2 ай бұрын

Agree, and don't forget that the medical industry is predatory in it's definition of 'disease' followed by a product that has a patent. There are no ethical barriers in modern Medicine.

@user-wg2vw3mz1v

2 ай бұрын

The known harms of _bad_ psychotherapy.

@philipholding

2 ай бұрын

Has anyone ever wondered how children arrive in therapy in the first place. Who initiates this, and why? I'm sure the children don't go to therapy on their own volition.

@haridasi4269

2 ай бұрын

I completely agree. Society gradually transferred to schools the onus of bringing up children, and too many schools and teachers either happily complied or did not push back. I used to be a teacher and I loved my students, but I was always aware of boundaries. Many of my colleagues, especially the younger ones, weren't, though. I once told one of them that we were NOT family to students and that the school could never replace their family, therapists, social workers, etc.. She was shocked and pushed back. She couldn't face reality.

@mcroot87

2 ай бұрын

As a fellow teacher (high school, 5 years now) I 100% agree we are underpreparing today's youth through a combination of family forces and society leaning on educators for everything

My former girlfriend is testament to this argument. When she was a child she was "overactive", or whatever bullshit terminology was used to justify why her teachers couldn't keep her interested in the class (while the actual reason was that she was simply too bright and learning too fast, and got bored while waiting for the rest of the class). So of course she was put on psych drugs to calm her down. By the time I met her at 21, she was on anti-psychotics and constantly trying to find the holy grail of drugs that would cure her litany of "bi-polar" diagnoses. Less than a year later, she had done the thing to herself that we're not allowed to say on social media any more without getting our accounts deactivated. She's gone. And I'm convinced that her biggest problems were caused by the ocean of chemicals pumped into her body by snake-oil salesmen, I mean psychiatrists.

@stop.juststop

2 ай бұрын

There is a documentary about how psych meds can cause suicide and are more trouble than help. Wish I remembered the name, but this story sounds like most in that doc.

@Noelciaaa

2 ай бұрын

I can't begin to comprehend how devastating all this must feel... Yes, I think you're right, I've seen way too many cases like these myself. I hope things can change for the better with interventions and more testimonies like these coming up. I wish peace to the both of you.

@slampersand3145

2 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/qn6nm86EaLOvn84.htmlsi=yasvApzQZ8N8CBPA

@vanessac1965

2 ай бұрын

Tragic. Way too many stories like this. I'm so sorry.

@cherylmockotr

2 ай бұрын

I'm sure you're right... so sorry for your loss! That must have been very rough on you, since you were powerless to do anything to help her.

during teh pandemic, my daughter (in college) developed eating disorder, so we agreed to pay for therapy. After a year, I noticed that she is incresingly emotional and unhappy, so I asked for a ‘family session’. My only question to the therapist was: what the goal that we want to achieve? She couldn’t answer it, so I convinced my daughter to stop it and instead going to social events and start doing sport. That seemed to do the trick. i never trusted therapists and never will.

@missp498

2 ай бұрын

They should ONLY go to someone who has proven credentials in treating eating disorders. The good ones can cure you. I think some therapist go outside their area of expertise all the time.

@vanessac1965

2 ай бұрын

Remove wheat and dairy from the diet if she's starving then binging, they create addictive binging cycles in vulnerable individuals

@Treblaine

2 ай бұрын

"what's the goal?" "You mean the point where you stop paying me? I don't understand, why would I want that?"

@ConstructiveMinds100

2 ай бұрын

I never trusted therapist so I send my daughter for a one year. George Carlin 😂

@dani-elle-au9935

2 ай бұрын

Wow, where I come from you go through the therapeutic plan (goal and estimated time) within the first 1-3 sessions and re-evaluate toward the end of those sessions. Perhaps they were reluctant to share the goal with you as they are not at liberty to share what they had agreed with your daughter, or hadn't gotten to know you all enough to suggest one?

I'm glad to know my therapist saw me for a year and then basically released me. Told me to only go back if I wanted to discuss something particular. He's one of the good ones.

@karlynfinnegan2333

2 ай бұрын

Open dialogue therapy in Finland for forty years is healing psychosis with communication reflective practices. The reality is that we have dominants who spar with troll salad. Including cognitive distortions, logical fallacies, and other mind games. And missatuned people who tell the bullying child he is scared and lavish with praise and affection and no one notices the cycle of abuse and lying stories. Also children can easily be alienated from parents by cult like people and belief systems. Also people can talk about scientific studies but there is much uncertainty, these are not truly scientific proofs.

@nicandromartinezsotelo3300

Ай бұрын

@@nerychristian well it took a few months to establish done trust and background, and the rest of the time was my inability to move on from an abandonment issue I had as a child. We went over and over with this several times, and it was on me. He wanted me to move on faster

@nicandromartinezsotelo3300

Ай бұрын

And therapy worked for me because it helped me feel responsible for how I feel. It depends on the therapy approach I think

My therapist told me to not move in with my new boyfriend (now my husband), according to her, I should keep living with my mom because we had issues to be solved and that I shouldn’t dive into a new relationship having such “traumas”. She said I was skipping processes. I look at our beautiful kids now a days with their beautiful eyes and kind souls and think “if it was for that therapist I wouldn’t have the opportunity to meet you.”

@springwood1331

25 күн бұрын

Glad its turned out well for you, however no therapist should be telling you what to do!

Arts crafts music dance sports cooking singing gardening etc Creative activities done at home or outside in nature Nourishing food All can be therapeutic

@cathylucas3653

Ай бұрын

I agree. I’m old, and my elementary school had many of these classes. We sang every morning, had music, played hard at recess. That has all changed

@mirandazannos336

Ай бұрын

Exactly !!! 🤩

Having ben to more than one therapist myself, I have largely lost my trust in therapists. My conclusion was that most of them seemed to have more issues than I did. The cherry on the cake was when i was visiting a therapist to talk to him after my divorce. He then revealed that he was in the process of getting divorced for the third time. I started to imagine getting driving lessons from an instructor who had been in multiple major car accidents.........

@tonywong8134

2 ай бұрын

This made me laugh so hard

@pabloguzman8472

2 ай бұрын

doing therapy today is actually normalizing reactions and encouraging people to socialize and do exercize. But the victim narrative is so strong that they become addicted to it. Its meta-therapy in a way

@Principessa1046

2 ай бұрын

Oof, I feel this. Mine tried to convert me to veganism (I was already pescatarian), pressured me to keep trying ketamine therapy when the one and only time gave me my first and only-so-far panic attack, insisted there's no way I could be experiencing any ethnic (Jewish) bigotry at work (she was also a Jew), and then said that it's good I named my newborn daughter a name that could be shortened in case she turns out to be trans.

@dominiknewfolder2196

2 ай бұрын

I remember one time during my marriage counseling "therapist" flirted with my wife. It helped me 😂 I was done with both of them.

@sheerluckholmes7720

2 ай бұрын

@@dominiknewfolder2196Two down...none to go. Well done. 🤣

I've had one good therapist until she retired. I would see her from time to time when I had issues to resolve. I've also seen a bunch of bad ones. This is because I deal with all kinds of personal issues, just like the rest of humanity. My perspective is, if therapy culture creates victims, it is because our current society idolizes happiness above all, and if you are not happy, you need to be fixed. Of course, in some cases, therapy is great. I firmly believe that treating mental health should be as common as treating physical health. However, it seems like society has forgotten that life is hard. Suffering is part of being human. There are things we SHOULD be depressed about. And the world is unbearably tragic if that is what you are focusing on. All that said, I do wonder if there is an evolutionary path we are on that is truly making us less able to psychologically cope with life in general. Are we, in fact, "crazier," as a species? And what does our loss of faith, our abandonment of the church as the primary glue of our communities, have to do with all this? Fascinating.

@MaryC-co8fm

Ай бұрын

Excellent and astute comment. Agree.

Diagnoses of despair, i.e. not clinical depression is a great set of studies that explains this issue. Basically, a lot of people are diagnosed as depressed (clinically, by licensed professional) yet they are merely suffering from despair. As Abigail said, true depression is being unable to get out of bed; not able to communicate with other people; lack of care over something essential like bathing, eating, paying bills. Yet most diagnosed with depression just suffer from negative feelings, hopelessness, despair, pain... which is why the study on despair is so important.

I'm a teacher, and I have been told that I cannot say the word "test" because it causes anxiety, but I must use the word assessment, which, in my experience, the same thing, because the kids know they are the same.

@pabloguzman8472

2 ай бұрын

and so what if it causes anxiety, thats a good thing, it helps you keep on the move and start studying

@Lionforaday

2 ай бұрын

I would lie down in traffic before I'd be a teacher today. Where I live? There are bar codes on the walls that kids can scan with their smartphones to make a human rights complaint. Seriously.

@cherylmockotr

2 ай бұрын

Not only do they know the words synonyms, they now know you're trying to manipulate them. Fabulous way to make the test even more scary!

@cherylmockotr

2 ай бұрын

​@@LionforadayPLEASE tell me you're joking!! 😮😮😮

@Lionforaday

2 ай бұрын

@@cherylmockotr Cheryl I'm not. I wish I were joking - though even as jokes go, it's not very funny. Honestly? This generation of kids, they're lost.

My daughter is in Kindergarten and so far they’ve filled out 2 emotional surveys!! It’s supposed to tell the school how kids are coping. But these are 5/6 year olds! I don’t think it’s healthy to train them to focus on how they feel all the time. I opted my daughter out!

@42Pandas

2 ай бұрын

Homeschool.

@Medina-bk2fo

2 ай бұрын

Most people have to go to work all day, but it's a good idea for the few.@@42Pandas

@rejectionisprotection4448

2 ай бұрын

Oh Lord.

@MadisonEatsYellow

2 ай бұрын

Social Emotional Learning is pushed on teachers. It is often required to be taught on a daily basis according to a district approved program. I feel like it's primarily a money making scheme at this point because "educational companies" market these programs to districts. If teachers were smart, they'd quit the classroom and double their salaries by joining the sales teams of these educational companies... it's where all the government funding for education ends up going.

@cherylmockotr

2 ай бұрын

Good for you! A friend of mine just had to "forbid" her 10 year old from engaging in her school's "peace walk" exercise. The girl is highly empathetic naturally, and was taking on all the angsts of her classmates. She's become highly anxious and immature in her own emotional self-regulation because of it. Her school's format attracts the special needs kids from the district, so half of her class has poor emotional self-regulation skills, and this poor girl has taken on an adult role of being responsible for soothing them.

The most difficult people I’ve ever shared my home with have been therapists or people in never ending therapy who talk about “my mental Health” all the time. It’s all about them and their feelings, and they really know how to weaponise words.

@enricoabrahams5061

2 ай бұрын

Sounds like therapy-permitted/induced narcissism

@roseskyschmolesky

2 ай бұрын

@@enricoabrahams5061it certainly feels It certainly feels like that

@Bingewatchingmediacontent

2 ай бұрын

I had a roommate that had been in therapy since she was a teenager. She was very manipulative and would use “therapy speak” as a weapon. So let’s say you approach her with “Hey could you please put your plates in the dishwasher?” And she’d come back with “I hear that you’re saying you’d like me to put my plates in the dishwasher.” And so instead of just putting her plates in the dishwasher, suddenly we’re discussing my feelings about the plates that didn’t get put into the dishwasher, and why it’s my problem that I don’t enjoy that, like it’s a weird problem that someone might not like a bunch of dirty dishes sitting in the sink. Every single conversation was like that.

@enricoabrahams5061

2 ай бұрын

@@Bingewatchingmediacontent Wow, so basically she learned in therapy how to make you the problem so that she doesn't have to change any bad behavior patterns....good luck to whoever's marrying that. I can actually see her spouse in therapy or them in couple's therapy, which will make the talk therapy industry more money out of them

@owlboy_9995

2 ай бұрын

This would be a hilarious Key & Peele sketch.

I‘m a physician and I‘ve seen many clients over the years who have been to endless talk therapy. They indulge in their story and keep on talking. No actionable skills to resolve a crisis. A lot of psychotherapy is just a business model. People are overtreated.

@julisplett2748

25 күн бұрын

Agree! I noticed this with myself recently after 6 months of therapy and we were getting nowhere. I really dreaded our sessions held mostly over zoom. Taking action is key to break cycles.

When you were talking about the reasons that kids are so miserable now. I don’t think we can just blame it on the Internet, it’s also the emphasis on keeping kids in sports and keeping them so busy that they never have time to be with extended family or even their siblings.

@MaryC-co8fm

Ай бұрын

Great points. Part of the problem is that there isn't grandma and auntie anymore because people move so far from extended family.

@claudinecapel1394

27 күн бұрын

Yes I agree. Lack of community. Single parents complain that there is no village to raise the child, and perhaps this is the effect of that lack of village on children… they need more loving people around them

Keeping people mentally unwell could be as profitable as keeping them physically unwell. In the sitcom Frasier Niles points out that lawyers make great patients because "they have great insurance and they never get better." Do therapists sometimes attempt to create such goldmine patients of people that may not be that bad off in the first place?

@melanieenmats

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely. Many do this, but most do this unconsciously. It is very easy to convince one-self that you are doing something for the other when benefitting yourself. In theory psychologists learn about this and that should help them not do that. In reality therapists are just humans and very often fail on this point. Id say less than 10% would be able to avoid this. The more evidence based approach they use, the more they will be prone to thinking they are objective thus failing to keep an eye on their own motivations. This is why 99% of therapy ends when the patient quits. It is not uncommon for a rich patient to have bought their top-level therapist a nice house over the course of decades of therapy.

@davidpaz9389

2 ай бұрын

@@melanieenmats True. Brian Wilson comes to mind.

@liamanderson4992

2 ай бұрын

Sure! The therapist gets paid for each session. the more sessions they get, the more money they make! I pulled the plug on my last therapist because i came to the conclyusion that we had nothing to talk about and that we weren't making any obvious progress. He wasn't going to tell me that I didn't need therapy, that would be killed the goose that laid the golden egg.

@CosmicRay111

2 ай бұрын

"Could" be ...?

@user-lh5re8jh7u

2 ай бұрын

Pretty much what psychiatry does: creates perpetual patients out of otherwise normal people with regular struggles all people experience at some point.

Good therapy should encourage and develop resilience and independence.

I want to add: I’m a therapist and know school counselors and those individuals are not the best in the field. Schools don’t pay well, so you get young, inexperienced, often poorly trained counselors (many times still under supervision under a provincial license). This does NOT include the school psychologists who play a very different role. Only those who are counselors. So we are also letting our children be influenced by someone who we would never personally choose to treat our children.

@VaughanMcCue

2 ай бұрын

School counsellors are subsidised by church groups as part of their marketing endeavours.

@Runwithme418

2 ай бұрын

To prove their point about the culture seeing mental illness everywhere, I literally read your comment as, "I want to A.D.D..." 😂

@rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr1

Ай бұрын

In California, at least, they're also trained by education schools instead of psych schools. They get sub-par psych training with a heavy dose of the worst ideologies on offer in higher ed.

@baarons93

Ай бұрын

I feel so embarrassed... This may be pretty telling. I read your first four words as I want to "A.D.D."- and spent so much time trying to figure out what that may have meant. We really are that Steve into a mental health labeling society. I've become My own worst enemy 😩

as a therapist, patients with 'victim mentality' are easy to cure, victimhood is the most common cognitive distortion. the solution is to help my patients empower themselves. self-efficacy is key!

My mother was a narcissistic therapist who force counseled me for years, and I'm still dealing with it. Being forced to talk about very personal subjects with an authority figure can really screw you up, because part of learning your own wellbeing is about learning how to build trust and with whom. We've become a society of experts where just having a counseling degree makes you "trustable". I wish there was more awareness of a very different modality of therapy: open dialogue from Finland. It is all about empowering the clients and never talking down to people in a clinical way. The UK is running studies on peer supported Open Dialogue. I'd love it if this gets more air.

@johnnyecoman9121

2 ай бұрын

Ah yes, therapising your children, an old habit that nearly always causes harm. Melanie Klien started this tradition, her son killed himself.

@SilviaHartmann

2 ай бұрын

I would recommend taking a trauma holiday for a change and doing a bit of #starmatrix .

@betsyc6055

2 ай бұрын

Trauma recovery coaching is also peer to peer 😊

This is so refreshing! We need to start suing therapists and the gender dysphoria industry ghouls.

@Medina-bk2fo

2 ай бұрын

Well said - and recall it was first called "Gender Identity Disorder" - and was only changed to get insurance funding. "Gender identity industry ghouls" is more revealing. THANKS for that!

@pabloguzman8472

2 ай бұрын

dont just blame therapists. Patients dont accept when a therapist tells them they are normal and demand to receive diagnosis and help

@VaughanMcCue

2 ай бұрын

It is the parent's fault, not the incompetent th'st. Decide what benchmarks need to be achieved initially and inspect what you expect.

@meme6335

Ай бұрын

Sue them for what lol

The more "mental health awareness" you introduce into a school, the more mental health issues you create. It's putting ideas into their heads.

@celiacresswell6909

2 ай бұрын

Well that’s what school is for!

@gg_rider

2 ай бұрын

​@@celiacresswell6909 😂

@regi4834

2 ай бұрын

or giving words to their experiences... maybe? It kills me how people can look at the sensitivity of the younger generation and attribute it to therapy talk in schools or TikTok or whatever - this is the very definition of correlation vs causation error How about these kids have to navigate a a digital reality their parents often have no clue about? A world with the highest information load, connectivity and rate of change that ANY generation in known history has faced? Maybe in order to navigate this increasingly complex and rapidly changing social reality they need a higher emotional self-awareness than their parents ever developed. How about the older generations step up and check themselves before ascribing blame so freely

@roobookaroo

2 ай бұрын

It's called "suggestion".

@be.A.b

Ай бұрын

Pretty sure it’s just labeling things that already existed. 2/3 of people who get a platform to tell their life story, look back at HS as a dark pit of misery. Mental health awareness isn’t the problem. The problem is that school is structured in a way that’s inherently difficult for human children. It’s all about breaking them into the real world. Not like we got anything better at the moment.. so oh well I guess.

Sadly, everything Abigail spoke about I agree with. The overzealous amplification of quickly affirming and putting labels on children is alarming. Where I live, they recently announced that 70% of children in middle and high school suffer from some sort of anxiety/depression. Teachers are becoming inappropriate counsellors and are quickly affirming their feelings. Kudos to the interviewer ,Flo. She made excellent points and allowed Abigail to answer timely. I will share this interview with my family.

I imagine mental illness diagnoses are welcomed by parents as absolution for bad parenting or denial that their child is just lousy

@offshoretomorrow3346

2 ай бұрын

Wow, another profession corrupted to destruction by Neo-M**xism. What a surprise.

@wintermatherne2524

2 ай бұрын

It is. My lousy mom tries to gaslight me that I’m bipolar. Unstable people don’t keep stable jobs over years , a stable marriage over years and a credit score above 800 over years.🤣🤣🤣 When I explained that to her, she STFU.

@42Pandas

2 ай бұрын

As an estranged parent I do not like that my daughter has been diagnosed with Bipolar and borderline. I don’t, for a minute, stop blaming myself for my daughter’s estrangement and even diagnosed conditions. It is not a relief. The entire situation is heartbreaking.

@tammyhavlik1015

2 ай бұрын

Nope. They blame everything on the parent, including the diagnosis, especially if they are the parent with less money.

@cherylmockotr

2 ай бұрын

Spot on!!

37:00 any experienced teacher will tell you if they introduce the concept of bullying, all of a sudden every child is being bullied, and its a nightmare to deal with. It's much better to focus on what makes a good friend vs. bullying

@rebeccaprewett5014

2 ай бұрын

I was bullied in school back in the day when, if a boy physically assaulted a girl on the elementary school playground (e.g., had his friend hold her so he could repeatedly punch her in the stomach until she couldn’t breathe, and then kicked her when she collapsed to the ground) the girl was told, “Stop crying! Boys will be boys! It just means he likes you!!” That was utterly daft and wrong. But, if there had been some of today’s “anti-bullying” silliness (as reported to me by school children) it would not have turned these hooligans into kind-hearted gentlemen but only made them more sneaky. Back in that day, there was also a form of playground justice, where some older boy would give the bully a “taste of his own medicine”. The protector of little girls would usually get punished but would bear that injustice, convinced he’d done the right thing. Yes, I wish I’d received more sympathy, rather than the dangerous message that I should view abuse as a sign of a boy’s affection. I wish bullies had been held accountable. But I am so thankful that I was not treated like some fragile victim. I learned to dust myself off, dry my tears, pull myself together, and try to focus on the next task at hand - and that has helped me survive and even thrive after some crises and genuinely traumatic events in adulthood.

Me 15 years ago, internship for psychology studies in a 'center for care for students' ( in my country they work with schools for anything psychological that goes beyond school capabilities.) I'm in the meeting on a school with all the teachers. 95% of the children are said to have a disorder. I'm puzzled, this doesn't track at all with normal prevalence... Turns out they gave the parents a form where they asked if the child had a disorder or any difficulty it might need assistance for. Either by our culture or by the way of asking the questions, apparently parents felt forced to enter something on the line. When the child had no actual problem, almost all of the parents had added "Fear of Failure" ~ test anxiety. It has only gotten worse since then I think. It is certainly a problem and I'll tell you who is in big part to blame: My fellow psychologists. -The diagnostic system DSM is built on sand, and perverted by influence from pharmaceutical companies. The whole system is worthless and devoid of practical therapeutic indications. -There is a damning reproducibility crisis in all social sciences that proves current accepted practices aren't scientific. -There is corruption and nepotism in research where students are almost forced to continue the work of professors in an ever narrowing field, instead of exploring fundamental issues. -... The field of psychology has become intellectually lazy and based on statistics that aren't worth their weight in paper. Most people are better off by eating well, exercising, and meeting people/friends than they would be by therapy or medication. If you read this far :) recommend that to your acquaintances before seeing a therapist.

@irinaz9034

2 ай бұрын

Most importantly, its seems - therapy is an easy enough & lucrative enough profession for people to try (very unethically) to expand the "field of application" for their services by claiming everyone is their potential client. And in the US they almost achieved this goal. I don't see any self-correction by the field itself - but society building it's future generations so wrongly will not be able to compete in the real world and will lose eventually ...

@melanieenmats

2 ай бұрын

I enjoyed reading your reply and agree wholeheartedly.@@irinaz9034 I don't see any self-correction either. What I see is the job of a psychologist become more an administrator. Therapy is now often delegated to lower degrees since it is viewed as just the application of step-programs +medication. But I'm in Europe, the rich-ppl therapy is less fashionable here. Here it is more the kids of poor people that get medicalized and treated into oblivion. The big institution I work in... I often wonder is it trying to help kids, or is it a giant machine that feeds itself on children, and poops them out in adolescence as refuse. I'm afraid we aren't much better off than psychiatry 100 years ago. But it is dressed up ever so nicely. We needs some rebels to stoke a fire.

@directinprint

2 ай бұрын

Thank you very much!

I'm worried sick that I may be a hyperchondriac

@LandYacht

2 ай бұрын

🤣🤣

@Remy4489

2 ай бұрын

Lol 😆

@Simon_Kidd

2 ай бұрын

❤

@markpostgate2551

2 ай бұрын

I'm pretending to have Munchausens Syndrome just for the attention.

@melanieenmats

2 ай бұрын

Funnily enough that is the last thing someone with Munchausen would ever say.@@markpostgate2551

I was diagnosed for ADHD and put on stims at 13. It messed me up good. Not because I didn't need it but because I wasn't mature enough to understand what it was doing to me and it only made me more confused and frustrated. I stopped taking them throughout my teen years. I was happier but struggled. Now that I understand stims I can handle it much better.

@tabiripetrovich517

2 ай бұрын

I have a brother with ADHD and my family suffered a lot from him. Last summer we had a holiday in romania and the romanian environment for children totally didnt tolerate his discrepancies. They looked at him with "the look". And he knew his place. Adhd is largely created by culture. Sorry if it hurts you.

I love how Shrier sidestepped the question of a therapist leeching off of a parent with knowledge that the kid doesn't need therapy: I was in that _exact_ situation when I was 8. I had _less than zero_ buy-in on a therapist, and it appears my therapist shared that skepticism. When I told him I didn't believe in therapy, and would NOT participate, he "made a deal": if I would come in every week as ordered by my crazypants "mother" [I was adopted, and never ever not reminded of it. Maybe "Mom" should have sought out therapy, instead of trying to get it by proxy], he would feed me the dinner of my choice [steak, since we were told that it was far too expensive for us to eat at home, even though she had enough money for the 50 minute hour at least once a week!]. I "saw the therapist" for around three years. We never discussed _anything_ of consequence (mostly weather and current events in the daily newspaper). He made a killing, and I ate well once or twice a week. Therapy is 100% BS in my opinion, and that opinion is coming from a graduate of an Ivy medical school. I have NEVER, not even once, met a therapist )regardless of their credentials) that believed they were useful either - these people aren't just frauds, they _know that they are frauds!_

@LuckaMc-xc3uc

2 ай бұрын

I beg to disagree. I went to a therapy because I had marriage issues, found out my mother is a narcissist, which explains lots of things in my life. Through therapy I realised our issues are OUR and my husband finally agreed to couples therapy. Have been going for a few months and we learn how our patterns from childhood affect our relationship as we keep replaying them. It’s not easy to change, but it’s possible. We are in a much better place now. I agree that Therapy is not for everyone. And maybe your therapist gave you exactly what you needed - a safe space to decide for yourself what you are going to do and talk (or not talk) about. And have a nice meal 😉

@directinprint

2 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@mikeottersole

2 ай бұрын

You sound like one angry squirrel.

@mikeottersole

2 ай бұрын

You sound like one angry squirrel.

There's good therapists and bad ones. Bad ones pathologize, good ones work on growth and progress.

@jeffheller642

2 ай бұрын

This imo is the idealized version; yet any self respecting therapist would attribute growth and progress to the patient being 'ready' and their ability to form a positive transference with her/him. And anyway what means growth and progress? and why do we need therapy or therapists for this worthiest of goals.

@Bob_Adkins

2 ай бұрын

The best ones teach you how to deal with your own problems and that you are not weird or special. And to get on with your life. All in 2 or 3 sessions.

@dendenm1

2 ай бұрын

I am so happy that this is getting more attention. I always get into trouble with colleagues when i talk about the bad side of therapy.

@machinethesun9243

2 ай бұрын

Therapists are human. I've had a few over they years, none were perfect, but the best ones I've had, had their own therapists to keep their own baggage in check. You have to vet them and see how experienced they are in what you are getting help for. The best one I had, got extra training specifically to help me. She learned EMDR to help with my PTSD symptoms. @@dendenm1

@machinethesun9243

2 ай бұрын

Not really. I've fired 2 therapists. You have to be specific for what you want help with and really try to find a very good one with a lot of experience and training and interview them to see if they are right for you. It's like any other relationship - whether you are looking for a job, a spouse, etc. You also have to go in there realizing they are human and will make mistakes, they are not gods or higher beings. And that means you have to take what you like and leave the rest. Personally, I wouldn't see anyone with under 10 years of experience or got their degree from a less than mediocre program. By the way, one of the ones I fired was a Jungian with a Phd, and he really helped me on a very deep level, was life changing for the best. In some ways he was the best one I've ever had. But on one issue, he was dead wrong and we couldn't reconcile it, so I left. I think he would have been better though if I had started seeing him after he had more experience as I was one of his first patients. @@chach-ec1gn

The medicalization of the normal emotions and experiences of life.

@williammurtha929

2 ай бұрын

Spot on in one sentence Steve 👌

@user-fs3hs4xb6c

2 ай бұрын

God bless you Steve

@scottsherman5262

Ай бұрын

Damnit Steve, what if someone gets momentarily sad though???!!?? Surely you're not suggesting we don't toss them into a vat of medications immediately, so what precisely are you suggesting?

this is a book I'll have to get - it's so refreshing to hear something you've been suspecting for a long time. many thanks

My wife and I were licensed foster parents from 2017 to 2020, from 2018 into 2019 we had a 16 month foster placement. A significant part of our training was what was called ‘trauma informed parenting’ and we were expected to use this parenting style with our foster children. The idea was that all the child’s behavior was understood through their trauma. Anecdotally I can tell you from my experience, that the application of this parenting style usually takes the form of forgoing discipline for even the most basic behaviors, and I believe this approach is a mistake. It was only after trying many things from the ‘trauma’ playbook that we resorted to good ol’ fashion consequence based parenting for dealing with behavior, that was when we had success altering unacceptable behavior with our foster placement. Not every deployed soldier with combat experience has PTSD, and the same goes for children in foster care. Starting from the assumption that a child is traumatized is not an effective way to parent a child. Kids as well as adults are very resilient, and we should treat everyone as such until show evidence to the contrary.

I'm a teacher and have long felt that there is a ghoulish industry out there that can't wait to tell kids that they're victims.

"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you..." Kurt Cobain

The woman is one of the best interviewers I have come across.

It's the pathologization of the mind.

@jeffheller642

2 ай бұрын

Exactly -- ditto the emotions!

I'm a teacher, a mother and now a grandmother. It was so satisfying to listen to this conversation and to be saying to myself- my thoughts exactly. Recently my grandauther fell and got a little scratch on her head while playing in the playground and the whole school- the doctor, the nurse, kindergarten teachers were writing emails apologising etc and my daughter ( and a colleague in primary school) just told them: if there is no blood, no guts spilled, let her stand up and continue to play. Of course she is also careful not to miss any signs of something serious happening with our little treasure but the litter treasure is not being made aware of her mother's watchful eyes:)

Helping people, helping others, getting out of yourself, having faith is the solution

@nohalfstep4435

2 ай бұрын

Faith?

Therapy helped me process trauma and helped me to become a stronger, smarter person. Everyone will be victimized by assholes in this life. Therapy helps you identify your boundaries and the limits of what you are responsible for and what others are responsible for. Therapy helps you identify narcissistic and bullying behaviors, gaslighting, manipulation tactics. It helps to prevent you becoming a victim, by standing up for yourself and knowing your rights.

@dominiknewfolder2196

2 ай бұрын

Yep, this is part of the problem. Accusing other people about "making you feel". It works only for women 😂

@HerWanderlust

2 ай бұрын

Agreed that all the things you learned in therapy are necessary skills for a healthy emotional life. I personally was harmed by narcissistic abuse, never had any therapy, yet learned all the things you learned in therapy. I learned by self study on KZread. Therapy is not a necessity and it is not the only way to heal and become less susceptible to harm by dangerous people. ((Saying this as someone who earned a degree in psychology)

@stealthwarrior5768

Ай бұрын

@@HerWanderlust youtube hasn't always been available and therapy has been there before the internet and social media was a 'thing'.

Finally a discussion on the harms of therapy but not the harms are massively underresearched and largely ignored by the profession.

So good to hear this conversation...Finally!

Don't get me started on how suddenly everyone has adhd and autism...

@mrlawilliamsukwarmachine4904

27 күн бұрын

Ptsd….mpd, dpd.

@kingmaafa120

22 күн бұрын

$$$

Research shows that if you are born poor you will likely remain so. We're living in skyrocketing inequality. People need resources not therapy

@dominiknewfolder2196

2 ай бұрын

I never heard about someone dying from starvation. The problem with "wealth" is all about high status in society. What an irony 😂 People hungry for higher status usually starve their investments. Adding to this jealousy with resentment, uff. As a wealthy man I would keep distance from "poor" people.

I have 2 teenagers who I’ve homeschooled over the last 4yrs with a co-op and as we talk about them going to public school next year, this was so helpful!! Great insightful interview.

I'm in my thirties and seeked out a therapist. I had 2-3 specific issues I just could not resolve myself for years. First therapist did not do much. The second one I liked. She not just agreed and validated. She asked frustrating questions to help me reevaluate my beliefs that keep me in this miserable state, and gave real life guidence. I know I learned some tools to use in life. I wanted to share because I see others do that too, but they did not have a good experience.

When I moved to America from Holland and left all my friendships behind, I had to make new friends in order to have any. Even though I made new friends, they were not yet the kind of friends that would simply tell me the truth, they were not yet the kind of friends that would say it to me as they saw it, they were friends who were polite and kind. I appreciate(d) my new friends and they have now become long-time friends but to this day, bouncing thoughts and feelings off of them was not part of our friendships. Only after many years did one or two of these friendships become that kind of intimate and honest connection that I now can rely on. Mostly I was advised to see a therapist, which I simply could never afford. Later my own family and I attended many, many family counseling sessions when raising teenagers was hard and painful. These session only helped slightly because I was able to get to the end of a sentence before being interrupted and dismissed by the teen. They never ever (non of the 4 or 5 counselor we sought help from) ever responded in a way that actually helped us the parents, they were all geared to hearing the child and accommodating him/her.

@Hoogee4

2 ай бұрын

Interesting, I have noticed, anecdotaly, that Europeans develop deeper relationships, and swedes such as me, takes time to become a friend, but will give real friendship, not just shallow politeness.

@1kenneth1985

2 ай бұрын

Spot on . very well described. Thank you. [ had the same experience (minus the family therapy bit) . Have moved back after 3 decades 'over there' and once again enjoying the depth of the connections forming w/ new friends here. Best wishes - C

@1kenneth1985

2 ай бұрын

@@Hoogee4 🌷 yes indeed !

33:58- AS mentions kids who have indeed been traumatized by “…horrible abuse…”. But there’s a ratio between the degree of the abuse and the sensitivity of the specific kid. It takes a lot of abuse to traumatize a resilient kid. It’s takes less for a sensitive kid, but the wound may be just as deep, if not deeper.

An adult conversation. Thank you two.

Listen and listen good. Take responsibility for the situation of your life. If you don't no one else will.

26:28- “…emotional snowsuit…”. Brilliant shorthand description, esp. for a child in that predicament.

@gg_rider

2 ай бұрын

I wanted an emotional snowsuit. Became teenage drug user. I thought that was cool. I did NOT want to speak to any therapist.

@jwf2125

2 ай бұрын

@@gg_rider I get it. Look up a famous poem by Rumi called The Guesthouse. It speaks to the benefits of welcoming all the feelings, good or bad. That’s not easy, for anyone, but it’s worth it. Just my opinion…

Oh dear! So glad this is being said! Thank you.

@jeffheller642

2 ай бұрын

Its been said many many times before. Id be happy to supply you with references.

@serenasztein5065

2 ай бұрын

please do@@jeffheller642

I had depression on and off since the age of eight. I also something wrong happen during a medical procedure and endured medical torture at the age of eleven. As I look back at my childhood, I got more good out of medical torture than I did with therapy. I looked at that incident as an accomplishment, that I knew I could overcome hardships. Therapy just made me live in my head 24/7, and the medications I was prescribed made me feel like a zombie.

never been a better time to be a shrink.......................it's the gold mine that just keeps giving.

@nunyabidness3075

2 ай бұрын

Not even close. Late 70’s was better. Insurance paid for anything.

To some extent there is truth in this argument, but some important factors seem to be left out is the context of the western culture: 1. The sense of meaninglessness that prevails in our ever more disconnected and therefore discontented lives, 2. The betrayal many young people feel toward state institutions that purport to have their wellbeing and livelihood at heart when in fact these have become perverse profit models to milk the human of any sense of value, power or purpose 3. The ever increasing virtual lives and correlative decreased social lives, skills and capacity which increases psychoneuraoendoimmunological (PNEI) unrest, imbalance and dis-ease. To leave these out is to point fingers at those who want to remove the needle in the haystack created by the shamer/blamer: gaslighting.

@berthagigglesworth6244

2 ай бұрын

Thank you for saying this! Although I agree to some degree that the crisis is 'homemade', she seems to be completely blind to the fact that growing up in these days comes with so many troublesome aspects. I wouldn't want to change with my children. Many adults struggle with what the world has become, it must be so difficult for teenagers, so confusing, feelings of helplessness, lost meaning... There are plenty of reasons why young people might feel low and rising numbers of self harm and suicide are showing that dispair is real.

@shiracohenyoga3492

2 ай бұрын

@@berthagigglesworth6244 Exatly, there are days when I feel sorry for teenagers in this psychological war on humans, it's very tough to comprehend, understand, let alone be okay with, and blessed that I grew up in the 80's and 90's as a teen. Much easier times and that basis gives us more trust in the goodness of most and that truth and meaning are more essential to human life than all the fake glory the virtual world drowns us in.

@rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr1

2 ай бұрын

Well...yes. First, she didn't cast blame on the kids caught in this system (or their parents). She's pretty clearly saying the system is broken and doesn't address the actual social breakdown that you're describing pretty well yourself. It's, in fact, one of those institutions, "that purport to have their well-being at heart but have become perverse profit models to milk the human of any sense of value, power, or purpose."

@candycolriv

2 ай бұрын

Even if you think her diagnosis is missing some points, her prescription is still solid. Hyperfocusing on every bad feeling, only magnifies them. Surely, people still have problems, no matter how “good” we have it. The problems are just different. I have friends in Africa who've visited me before. They always tell me, they pray for me, as I do them. I pray they get some relief in the way of consistent access to fresh water & their lives to be less burdensome. & they pray for me, for help with keeping my life sjmple & to not be consumed with being a consumer & making more & more money- to the detriment of my relationships & pursuing my purpose. Having all the choices & freedoms we have is difficult. Its obviously diff then not being able to eat. Nonetheless it's a problem. & my friends don't wish to trade places with me, but I do with them sometimes… they're always so joyful… they have no idea what depression even is! Ik, I've always been happier when I had less. Making more money has created anxiety I've never had.

@iesouschristosnika777

2 ай бұрын

So true. And kids who take buses or transit to or from school where bullying violence is increasingly happening, along with at school, or the financial collapse of their families that impacts the children's lives, or the increasing fear of public violence and destruction of life for everyone. It's only the very privileged she is referring to, actually. Most regular kids and their families can't afford therapy. Self harm, drug use, dissociation and addiction (starting with dopamine hits of gaming), peer pressure...it's much more complicated now than ever before

I work with kids and one of my biggest pet peeves is the anxious mother who chastises the child to "Be careful!" every time the child stumbles, or attempts a physically challenging action. It's no coincidence that these are the mothers who bring their children to me for therapy.

There's bad therapy and there's bad journalism. Where are the facts? Where are the probing questions? Abigail's case seems to rest on "Well, I've seen kids come out of therapy and... here's the thing!" The problems she alludes to are real but her reasoning as to why these problems occur amount to a hotch-potch of random accusations leveled at therapists, teachers, parents... and Florence just nods along. When Abigail blamed "treatment" the question in my mind was "What treatment are you referring to? Drugs? Talking therapy? CBT?" Nothing. When the discussion touched on parental consent, neither party had a clue what this might involve. I am a therapist, but I don't work with under-18s. The idea that I might work with a teenager to "line my pocket book" is quite offensive. I have colleagues who do work with children and teens, and they are highly specialised in that field. That's not to say there are not issues to be addressed, but a self-promoter rattling off half-baked accusations doesn't seem the best way to do it.

@ewaoconnor7013

2 ай бұрын

I assume you are a skilled therapist who helps people. Therapists like you are essential. I had a very traumatic childhood, so I believed I needed therapy to "fix" myself and become "healthy." I tried various forms of therapy, but CBT is the only approach that works for me, specifically applying David Burns' "Feeling Great" methods. I felt that the my therapy attempts were a waste of my time and money because I couldn't see any benefit. In two instances, the "root cause" of my issues was diagnosed within about 15 minutes of starting a session with a new therapist. I educated the last one that their job is to ask questions rather than jump to conclusions. One therapist was helpful because she listened when I needed to be heard, but a good friend can provide similar support. I do believe that many therapists are unable to help, some are helpful but others are dangerous and cause harm with their arrogance and incompetence.

@natalieminnis

2 ай бұрын

@@ewaoconnor7013 I think you make a very good point - there are undoubtedly some not so good therapists out there. And you’ve made your points coherently with examples - substance rather than gloss. I know someone else who benefited enormously from David Burns’ excellent book. It didn’t work quite so well for me, but I was lucky enough to find an amazing therapist!

@SlickSimulacrum

2 ай бұрын

Shrier wrote an anti-trans book and has no expertise on any of this. She is a darling for hate mongers looking to attack trans people. And is a darling of terfs. She doesn't care about what the experts have to say, and just uses upset parents as a jumping off platform to attack all the real professionals, "She" a non-expert, disagrees with. And says so in her book. Stating that all the professionals have an "agenda." Offensive doesn't even come close to how bad she is. She is a hate monger who is doing real damage, and harming a lot of people. Just imagine parents who read her book and then abuse the hell out of their kids as a result.

@annamcwatters9458

2 ай бұрын

I would agree. There’s no differentiation between any therapies at all. Even therapeutic parenting, a highly structured parenting style for children who become easily disregulated(eg violent), is lumped in with talk therapy. I agree that talk therapy can be utterly useless if not done with a goal in mind, and that it can in the short term make symptoms worse. Which is why the treatment framework is important ( eg CBT, DBT)when looking at efficacy. Oh and 1) there are no blood tests for mental illness, even ‘genuine’ disorders like Schizophrenia. All of these diagnoses are based on symptom clusters. 2) the biggest thing missing from the current discourse around mental health is a recognition that anxiety and depression are part of the normal range of human experience, not an aberration at all, and learning to manage this better rather than either medicalising them or telling them to buck up, can make all the difference.

Such a brilliant and much needed conversation. I’m a family coach and work with parents whose teenagers self-harm and I’ve seen a worrying increase in the number of teens self diagnosing themselves as having a mental illness when, perhaps, they are just feeling low, out of sorts or naturally worried about the upcoming exams

She’s great.

Ive said this for years. The sun doesnt rise and set on our emotions, we have more control over them then we like to pretend we dont. At some point every person needs to be told this.

My Daughter stopped talking to me 3.5 years ago after a Therapy Session..Seems her Therapist convinced her the “Root” of All her Problems was me, her Father…From You’re the Best Father Ever and I Love You to I never want to see you or speak to you ever again…I missed her Prom, High School Graduation, Christmas’s, 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th Birthday…We were Inseparable and spent so many Wonderful and Happy Days together…Beyond Heartbroken with “No” end in Sight!…

@DeliveringSolutions

11 сағат бұрын

My exact experience. :-(

Top-notch convo, thank you!

Good piece. Well done.

Completely agree . One of my concerns is I hear parents speaking therapeutic interventions to this small children out of context and children being dis regulated rather than contained . Parents need to be able to be parents and listen to the intuition, I’m being tuned with the children 🙏

My daughther in her early 50s has been in therapy for 6 years and is undergoing her inner child work . As the mother, I am being blamed for ??? She is depressed, cold towards me with massive walls and boundries, and also is attacking her grandmas and aunt. The memories she is having do not match anything the rest of us remember. My daughter is extremely cold to me. She is easily "triggered" by just about everything and runs to her therapist for soothing. She is not healing, but getting more unhappy and she is so angry at just about everyone. It is all about her own ego and protecting herself from life . She is building walls that are imprisoning her. Again, I have no idea what I have done to cause her trauna and both her parents love her and tried to be loving, caring parents She is also a bit aloof from her dad, but more so to me, Maybe the therapist likes making money on my daughter and her issues So sad. This is an interesting talk

As a child/adolescent and general psychiatrist, I agree with Abigail and many of the comments about over-pathologizing, therapy/counseling causing harm affirming and alienating parents, parents asking for surveillance, and way too much uncertainty and variability that at least inadvertently breaches ethics by child psychiatrists and therapists understanding proper confidentiality and the limits thereof for kiddos and teens in psychiatry or therapy. Every therapist would benefit from proper supervision.

I 💯% agree with you! Thank you. I don’t have time to watch the rest but I hope you’ve included a correlation between rise of smartphones… social media to increase in teens going to therapy. I also agree that the label of ‘mental health’ is a catch all encouraging a victim mindset. A victim mindset enables teens (people) to overdramatize, blame others and seek negative attention. Teens/kids aren’t being empowered to fight their own battles and seek their own solutions. That’s how we grow. I agree with a comment here that parents should be more in charge of the well being of their struggling kids. However if parents tend to seek therapy, they will likely push their kids to do the same.

Framing a problem is fundamental to dealing with it.Most ‘anxieties’ evolve from the context of peoples’ lives-simplistic diagnoses and equally simplistic solutions are sold to a gullible population.Parents want to think that their teenager is broken ,hence fixable ,not that their family/society/nation is broken.

I co-teach a 4th grade class and the other teacher has brought in some practices that drive me crazy. She has studies that get handed out each morning and has provided every student with sensory putty and sensory strips (which have simply turned into play things during instructional time). Only one student has a diagnosis of ADHD, and all but one student live with intact families. Even that one student lives in a stable home with dad/stepmom. They're treated like they need these crutches of dolls to hug and putty to play with to get through their language arts class. None of them have experienced any trauma or stress to the degree that these items are necessary. They are all put away when I teach, and student performance is fine.

ADHD: I take care two children who are 6 and 8 and who have been helped immensely by medication. It was like a lightbulb going off for these children. They were not the ones who asked what’s wrong? The author seems to swing from one side to another and isn’t clear about her claims.

Really excellent interview and questions.

Thank you so much for talking about this. I needed to hear this to move forward in my life without meds.

As a therapist there is so much here that is so true… poor therapy can actually have very detrimental consequences. It’s not, as often portrayed, a trade off between either beneficial or at least benign. So many unintended, as she points out, iotregenic effects can be ongoing. I do want you to know there are those of us out there that DO NOT practice in these ways and are very aware of the pitfalls inherent in overdiagnosing, prescribing medications during especially primary brain development, negative labels one carries long after inept therapy, and medicalizing normal stages of physical and emotional development. The meta research is out these regarding the protracted and difficult withdrawals from medications. By the way there are therapists out there who don’t see a client as a source of financial stability because our ethical codes and the sacredness of the work we do is primary and the goal for eventual discharge because a client is healed is one of the greatest joys and rewards of this calling.

one thing that baffles me is how easy experiences of all sorts are labelled as trauma. Even a mosquito bite can constitute a traumatic event... another thing is that there arent spoiled kids anymore: all of them are considered autistic/traumatized etc etc...

Brilliant interview ❤

Very good and necessary! Thanks a lot.

I used to work in mental health. For us to" treat " the kids, we had to give them a diagnosis, which I hated. Granted, these were kids with some real issues, too. Lots of significant losses, foster kiddos, and just lousy family situations. However, overmedication was an issue for me. We had a nurse who overlooked their prescriptions. She was great but my honest opinion was they didn't all need meds.. With some, the meds made them worse. Anyway, my takeaway from the time I worked was that most issues were due to bad parenting. Also, Social media and exposure to all sorts of things online. I am an advocate for parenting skills classes like Love and Logic. I think it is far more beneficial than "talk therapy."

Mindfulness - Training in schools tends to make kids more sensitive to their FEELINGS and EMOTIONS

@MaryC-co8fm

Ай бұрын

Excellent point. Part of the agenda.

Resilience and just being happy get`s you through😊

@cleverkittn

2 ай бұрын

You gain resilience and satisfaction with life by understanding life isn’t fair, it’s not all about you, helping others is the best way to stop obsessing about your own situation, you’re responsible for your own feelings and actions, and nobody is or should expect to be happy all the time.

@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf

2 ай бұрын

And just being happy mate😀@@cleverkittn

Parents need to inform and educate themselves. Revoke the child's access to social media. Spend more time with children. Every parent must make their children's well-being their HIGHEST priority

I had a good friend who had studied psychology, and for most of the time I knew her she and her family were in some constellation of therapy. She was in therapy. She and her husband were in therapy. He son was in therapy. She and her son were in therapy. Her daughter was in therapy. She and her daughter were in thearapy. Her family was in therapy.... this went on for thirty plus years. It was so sad. Every one in that family was in constant pain, like repeatedly ripping the bandaid off and jabbing needles into the wound.

@dominiknewfolder2196

2 ай бұрын

The best way to create a market for your services is to create problems. 😂

Everybody wants to be labeled, and then will tend to live down to whatever label that is. Complete narcissism.

@ronhilton2255

2 ай бұрын

Everybodies searching for an Identity whether it be positive or negative.

@kevinmclain6741

2 ай бұрын

That's not narcissism.

@garyandtricia1

2 ай бұрын

@@kevinmclain6741 I disagree, it's a completely self centered ideology. But whatever.

@kevinmclain6741

2 ай бұрын

@@garyandtricia1 Then you simply don't know what narcissism is. Not all self-centric behavior is narcissism. This term gets thrown around way too much by people with no clue of what it is.

@garyandtricia1

2 ай бұрын

@@kevinmclain6741 If you say so.

I teach English in Vietnam where there are no school councilors and most children live in homes with extended families. They don't have the problems here that kids in America struggle with.

Abigail... Thank you so much. Your work is meaningful.

Starting at age 9, I slipped into a severe depression that would come and go for the rest of my life, but that first episode was so extreme and pervasive throughout fourth grade that most days I felt so sad and anxious that it felt like I was dying and my uncontrollable crying nearly broke my parents. There was no particular trauma behind it and I still went to school, had friends, and a stable home life. It was until I was in my late 20s, going through severe episodes which included alcohol abuse and extreme self harm incidents, that I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and started taking medications immediately. Whenever I've been hearing about children with poor mental health, it makes me think of when I felt like I was dying and couldn't stop crying, it never occurred to me that a lot of these cases could often be a much less severe malaise

I want a dark room like that…

@jaycarver4886

2 ай бұрын

I have always liked a dark room. Have a light sensitivity and always feel more calm and it's better for my eyes.

@yurigansmith

2 ай бұрын

Everytime I watch Unherd I have to recognize how beautiful this color is - this deep blue tone with a slight stinge of green.

The reason a kid enters a counsellors office is simple. It is so that the councillor can make a quick 100 bucks.

This is super helpful. Thank you so much for this❤

Reminds me of NA group think telling me I was a hopeless addict powerless to make good decisions without “the program”. 35 years later, glad I made it out of that cult.

@MrVvulf

2 ай бұрын

The whole situation reminds me of something many parents already know. When a toddler falls down, they often look to their parent to see if they are "supposed" to be hurt. If the parent (seeing that it was just a normal tumble, no damage) looks away, or just keeps a blank look, the child will just pick themselves up and carry on. Conversely, if the child has a hyper-vigilant neurotic parent who worries over every potentiality and rushes over with a worried look, the child will act upon that feedback, assume they are injured, and start crying. I'd love to see whether Ms. Shrier's data set regarding kids in therapy included rural vs urban breakdowns. My hypothesis would be that urban parents are more likely to be helicopter parents (and use therapy), while rural parents are more likely to be more standoffish, with a "figure it out for yourself" attitude (less professional therapy).

@gg_rider

2 ай бұрын

I'm prejudiced against NA. AA suggested to me that I am powerless over alcohol and drugs without help from God, BUT I can choose my own big or small conception of God, no enforced theocracy. The powerless thing is the suggestion that I may make a decision to stay clean and sober and then at some point change my mind for an irrational emotional reason, or even on autopilot. That would leave me with a lack of power to run my life effectively. The real problem the book describes is not actually an inflated ego for an enlarged ego, but what I would call an inflamed ego, an inflammation. It's like having a sunburn, your skin is sensitive to heat and touch. So you want to chill and reduce the inflammation. I've suffered a tooth inflammation before. You can hardly think about anything else. The actual program is more or less a process of learning how to do that inflammation reduction for myself, in real time, on a daily basis, within the context of my normal life routine. Inflammation is reduced, anxiety is reduced, fear is reduced, hurt and anger is reduced or resolved, the state of being in a toddler or teenage temper tantrum as an adult is gradually reduced. Ultimately, the 12-step program is me taking responsibility for my own life, my own happiness, my own self-esteem, within a recommended framework that I can come to understand and adjust to suit my needs and personality. It's not DIY on day one, but it should become DIY, although not devoid of human contact and support either. (When I solve an IT problem at home or at work, I often go to Reddit or spiceworks for advice about things about which I have uncertainty. No shame in that.) One function of the god concept could be described as asking the universe to show me, or asking an invisible power within me to guide me, RATHER than being in a state of anxiety about all the things I need to do quickly and perfectly, all the decisions I need to make, in a feeling of ME constantly pushing against the world. The concept of LET GO, that's the state I was always trying to achieve with alcohol and narcotics and tranqs anyhow, the ability to LET GO while being actively engaged in life. I sometimes could achieve that briefly with the right combination of chemicals, but it was more effort to achieve that state of being without the chemicals.

@BarnabyWild13

2 ай бұрын

@@gg_rider My point was along the lines of thinking for yourself and not accepting everything you are told while being in a vulnerable state. I was continually told that I risked imminent death if I used or drank again and it just wasn’t true. I kind of relate to Trans kids in this way. Led astray by those in “authoritive” positions to shape my self identity as an addict.

@user-fs3hs4xb6c

2 ай бұрын

Jesus Christ loves you

@BarnabyWild13

2 ай бұрын

@@user-fs3hs4xb6c do you speak for Jesus?

Therapist: Show me the person and I'll show you the psychological disorder.

@DiamondLil

2 ай бұрын

Sigmund Beria! 😅

Amazing interview...I will find Abigail's book and undoubtedly use it in my research--thank you!

35:05 one part she gets way wrong is to claim kids being isolated from their friends, and being moved around in childhood, should be "normal" without any damage. It's only normal for a brief period in history, and this does not lessen the damage. The fact that childhood is set up to control a kid's entire world like a cult, and rob them of building a communal foundation in the real world, then constantly uproot them from school to school, is devastating and has laid the foundation for the meaning crisis. I remember most of my friends went through severe breakdowns when they went to college, because they lost the community they had developed over their whole childhood. People went to totally different parts of the country, and gave 4 years of their life to an institution to control everything for them, only to uproot yet again. This entire process has rendered people ignorant, lost and handicapped. I'm a youth mentor and way too many young people lack a foundation of economic and social skills to navigate the world around them effectively. They don't know how to move out and rent their first room, they don't know how to get their first job, and they have absolutely no social capitol- meaningful relationships that create opportunities. The youth who need my help the most are basically NEETs, they stay at home most of the time, isolated, with nothing motivating them to get out of the house and go start a real life. They stagnate well into adulthood without serious intervention. I was one of those highly controlled and limited kids. I had to fight to the fucking bone to escape as a teenager and save my life. I was one of the lucky ones.

Thank you UNHERD for bringing us, yet again, another fantastic conversation about critical issues not being talked about ... Abigail Shier is simply amazing. Thank you ... This needs to be HEARD!

Abigail dodged Flo's question at 5:10, and I wonder why. It was a straight question asking whether there would be biological markers e.g. lowered serotonin levels in those who believe themselves to be unwell, or not? That's a reasonable question, and i'm surprised she didn't address it more fully. Especially since one could presumably argue a chicken/egg situation as far as self-perception of being unwell and lowered serotonin levels - i.e. either one could cause the other, and how would you establish the sequence of causality.

@honeytherat2017

2 ай бұрын

You can’t check serotonin levels. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter. You can check blood levels of certain psychotropic medications such as “lithium” and “valproate” to ensure they are within a narrow therapeutic range. Mental illness diagnosis is based solely on clinical assessment. There is not scan or blood test for mental illness. There are criteria for the illnesses in the diagnostic statistical manual.

My 15 year old daughter has been in therapy since she was 7 scheduled by my exwife. For the last 5 years my daughter identifies as chronically ill and under constant anxiety. Daughter started dating an older girl at school last year and stopped coming over to my house 3 months ago and stopped responding to my calls and texts 6 weeks ago. My exwife treats my kids as if she were their therapist too. As a divorced parent, you can't compete with this psychosis trainwreck. Another problem is that a few years ago it was apparently cool in middle school to come out as gay or bi... My daughter loved the flip phone that I got her when she was 13. Less than a year later exwife gets an expensive smart phone and asks me to split the cost... and unlimited data plan. No. ....And now our daughter is glued to her phone and video platforms and social media. Our society is destroying itself.

Outstanding excellent interview. Great insightful informed questions and responses.

Great interview

Totally agree, I know I was a victim during all therapy- started things like Landmark & other self dev work- never victim again