I have over 1000 hours on the Javelin, all marks.It was very easy to fly, and far too much was made of its stall characteristics, which I never encountered.It was a great all weather fighter, but was spoiled by the choice of sapphire engines which caused nearly all its problems.Too many people who don’t really know it give their opinions.I flew 26 different aircraft, and it was my second favourite after the Hawker Hunter.

@A_Short_History

2 жыл бұрын

That’s really interesting to hear. One always hear about the stall problems. Of the 26 you flew, which was your least favorite?

@pitothead23

2 жыл бұрын

@@A_Short_History Thank you for your question.My least favourite was the Venom NF3 which I flew on 23 Sqn. Then the Javelin came .My next posting was on the Javelin to 60 Sqn. Singapore.On return to UK, after a very brief(3 Days) on 64 Sqn.was posted as Unit Test Pilot on 27 MU Shawbury where I few many different aircraft.I reiterate, I never had a problem with a stall on the Javelin.

@A_Short_History

2 жыл бұрын

What was it about the Venom you did not like?

@pitothead23

2 жыл бұрын

@@A_Short_History It only had one engine, and having flown the Venom 1 on ground attack, there was no comparison.Also, no ejection seat.The venom NF2 was responsible for quite a few deaths, some of them unexplained.The heating was terrible and it would mist up on descent.The Ghost engine was unreliable.Flying out 200 miles over the North Sea in mid winter on one engine was no fun.

@pitothead23

2 жыл бұрын

I recommend a book, “Javelin From The Cockpit” by Peter Caygill..I, and some of my contemporaries made contributions which I am sure you would find interesting.I have actually written contributions in other books and magazines on the venoms, and Meteors.Roger Lindsey is an aviation author I would recommend.

The Jet age museum at Gloucester airport has 2, the exhibits are very well presented and the staff are very knowledgeable.

@A_Short_History

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, heard of it. Would be interesting to visit someday.

@TheHelensp

2 жыл бұрын

The one at Elvington is a bit sad. Been outside for years, could do with a lot of tlc.

Gloster and the RAF classified it as trans sonic, and it was the US that declared it sub sonic - so a couple of times a Javelin would dive from height over an American airfield and decline responsibility for any damage caused by the sonic boom... It was also regarded as an all weather fighter as it had radar, which the Lightning lacked. Lastly, it carried 4 Firestreak missiles and had cannon included - again more than the Lightning.

Half of those pics are of the jav at raf museum cosford, down the road from me. Excellent place to visit, especially post covid as i literally had the whole museum to myself on the last visit

@A_Short_History

3 жыл бұрын

Would be interesting to visit again. Been there once when I was younger.

I’m a child from the 1960’s 1967 to be precise I’ve never heard of this Fine Fighter Jet our country produced but I’ve noticed that Jaguar and later the Tornado have taken design inspiration from the Javelin that’s for sure.

My favourite looking aircraft - one as a kid, I could never find as an Airfix model back in the 1970's

@A_Short_History

Жыл бұрын

Did you find one eventually?

@PrivateWalker

Жыл бұрын

@@A_Short_History Nope never did.

@GRAHAMAUS

Жыл бұрын

That's because Airfix never produced a Javelin kit until 1994.

@PrivateWalker

Жыл бұрын

@@GRAHAMAUS 20 years too late for me. (Also never saw the Supermarine Swift I so wanted)

1950's Typhoon/Eurofighter! Beautiful plane.

@A_Short_History

2 жыл бұрын

Looks great! Had some issues though.

@chrishutton1458

9 ай бұрын

@@A_Short_History Yes! Interfering Politicians!

I remember my Grandad telling me that he work on the Javelin during his time at AST Hamble, also the Meteor.

@A_Short_History

2 жыл бұрын

Must have been interesting to hear stories like that.

I remember reading Bill Waterton's autobiography 'The Quick and the Dead'. He was test pilot for Gloster's-enjoyed the 'meat box' but hated the Javelin, and, very soon, Glosters themselves.

@A_Short_History

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting, I need to check that out, sounds like an interesting book.

@trigger399

2 жыл бұрын

Bill Waterton's last Javelin was the fourth prototype WT830, he never flew any with improvements such as the all-flying tail. No computers in those days, you flew a bit, changed a bit, his successors at Glosters didn't complain, just got on with the job.

@stevetournay6103

Жыл бұрын

Bill Waterton was also first to fly the Canadian Avro CF-100, in 1950. Another ex Gloster pilot, Jan Zurakowski, became the first to fly the ill-starred Arrow.

The Javelin was deployed in Malaysia during the Confrontation with Indonesia, on one occasion a Gurkha patrol was saved by the use of the reheat to simulate a bomb attack on persuing Indonesian troops.

@A_Short_History

3 жыл бұрын

That's a really interesting story!

@TheHelensp

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting! I was born in Taiping because my dad was a navigator on Javelins at that time

I used to work with old RAF engineers that worked on the Javelin back in the day. They never had anything positive to say about the aircraft. They always remarked that British post war/cold war aircraft were "built to a budget". One fellow said that the UK didn't have a decent fighter until the American McDonnell Douglas F4 Phantom was acquired. Still, British engine technology seemed to flourish.

@febweb17

9 ай бұрын

The Hawker Hunter was great aircraft. It held many records, including the world speed record. The British aero industry was destroyed by political decisions, not by the further advanced technologies of other countries. The Labour government didn't see our national defence and the aircraft industry as a priority so they handed aerial defence to the US. The F4 was a great aircraft, it's just a shame that with some competition the allies could have created world beaters.

love it

@A_Short_History

2 жыл бұрын

I am glad you do!

One of the few aircraft with a delta wing and reheated engines that was still only subsonic. It says a lot that it was up to the MK9 before it was truly effective.

@A_Short_History

3 жыл бұрын

The engineers must have been quite happy after finishing that Mk9 :)

@trigger399

2 жыл бұрын

Reheat wasn't to make it go faster, as it was only effective at altitude it helped it maintain speed and go higher - Javelin was supersonic in a dive from quite a high altitude, same as a Hunter.

@TheHelensp

2 жыл бұрын

A victim of its time. Development was so quick, several of those marks were overtaken by other marks in Development

@trigger399

2 жыл бұрын

As a 1948 design, supersonic speed was never a consideration nor a requirement. FAW9 was only an FAW7 converted to FAW8 standard and even early Javelins were a vast improvement on Meteors and Venoms and could intercept Canberras and V bombers. The Javelin had similar speed to the Hunter and could outclimb it and the reheat was not designed to make it go faster, just to maintain speed at altitude with four missiles.

@TheHelensp

8 ай бұрын

Half of the versions were just alternative radars. It had 3 engine upgrades in service life. The boffins were learning things quicker than could be included in designs on the drawing board. It was more efficient on one engine at 91% rpm than two at any other speed. One pilot commented on the number of single engine restarts without problems! Yes, it ain't no Lightning or Hunter, but it still did a job

I was stationed at RAF Leeming with 228OCU 1956-1959

@A_Short_History

3 жыл бұрын

What was your experience of the Javelin?

@anthonyeaton5153

3 жыл бұрын

@@A_Short_History just ground staff Airfield Crash Rescue.very interesting 3years

@A_Short_History

3 жыл бұрын

I can imagine!

I can’t understand why they didn’t drop the horizontal stabilizer and make this airplane a pure delta winged fighter. It was practically almost was one already.

@A_Short_History

8 ай бұрын

I am not a good enough engineer to answer that. In fact, I am no engineer at all :)

@phayzyre1052

8 ай бұрын

@@A_Short_History I’m no engineer either, I’m just an aircraft enthusiast and a private pilot to boot. It just seems to me like it could have fared better as a Delta fighter. Having that extra airfoil on top seems like it was just more drag on that aircraft but, that’s just me I guess.

Looks like a more primative eurofighter.

@A_Short_History

3 жыл бұрын

It kind of does.

@SamanthaGuttesen

3 жыл бұрын

Look at the delta wing, more like a chubby baby vulcan

@A_Short_History

3 жыл бұрын

@@SamanthaGuttesen hehe true

In Zambia it was no match for the Rhodesian Air Force Top Guns.

Fuselage became the Blackburn Buccaneer. One of the UK best planes of all time.

@TheHelensp

5 ай бұрын

Javelin fuselage became the Buccaneer??? Just no

Sorta jet ever

Javelins for jousting

Not one of Gloster's better aircraft.

@A_Short_History

3 жыл бұрын

It did have some serious problems.

Ugliest plane ever

@A_Short_History

3 жыл бұрын

images.app.goo.gl/EmxoDzdJgctL3aAp6 Seen this?

@brianmarak9689

3 жыл бұрын

Excellent design. A mid century cold war classic.

@mitchie2267

3 жыл бұрын

@@brianmarak9689 Nothing classic about it at all.

@wimbawarastra5069

3 жыл бұрын

For me not..😏

@Simon_Nonymous

3 жыл бұрын

can't please everyone - what's your pretty plane ideal then?