I second this proposal. And I propose Jago Hazzard as the new Secretary of State for Transport. We would finally have someone who knows what they're talking about.

@johnburns4017

2 жыл бұрын

🤣

@JohnADoe-pg1qk

2 жыл бұрын

But would he still delight us with three videos a week?

@johnburns4017

2 жыл бұрын

@@rocketscience4516 Sounds good to me. Hop on and off public transport. Get vehicles off roads. More land available for urban use/parkland, as less land used to park cars. The amount of land in Los Angles given over to park cars is the same area of the whole of San Francisco.

@johnburns4017

2 жыл бұрын

@@rocketscience4516 ..and?

@truckerallikatuk

2 жыл бұрын

Ah, but you meet the issue that "Knowing what you're on about" is a disqualifying factor for such appointments.

This is an intelligent, well reasoned and viable proposal. Which means that it hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of being enacted. Excellent video, as always, sir.

@donkeysaurusrex7881

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, let’s a have a cable car with a heliport instead.

It seems to me that the best solution to congestion and pollution in London is not electric cars but the revitalisation of the public transport infrastructure.

@mbrady2329

2 жыл бұрын

The "MUH CAR!!!" lobby wouldn't like to hear that!

@I967

2 жыл бұрын

It is. Rail transport and bicycles are the solution to congestion, air and noise pollution.

@MakeItWithCalvin

2 жыл бұрын

@@mbrady2329 I am a muh car person but I also for hopping a tram to run to the off-license or for some take out.

@gavinmillar7519

2 жыл бұрын

totally agree

@kaitlyn__L

2 жыл бұрын

@@MakeItWithCalvin the balanced kind, like myself. Sadly a number of people are dedicated “trains are old fashioned and offer no freedom” heads; “why would I leave my car at home for ANYTHING?” types. Though admittedly you see more of them in the USA than here, since their conception of rail transport is “once a week at 4am the Amtrak comes and no one uses it”. But I’ve seen plenty of British folks saying “demolish it all and turn it into motorways” sadly.

I just want more railways everything. I'm fed up of cars, especially in Enfield. Enfield is horrendous to move through and their cycle gutters are a joke. Unprotected, dangerous, and sporadic. Not to mention just how bloody difficult it is to move East/West in the borough. Wanna go in and out of London? A doddle. Wanna go from Edmonton to Southgate? Uh... Well what about Freezywater to Enfield Town? Not even a single bus? Cockfosters to Palmer's Green? How long? Yes I know it takes less time to get from Enfield Lock to Liverpool Street. What a joke.

The good old Tram line. I must admit when they started to build the Tram where I lived in Mitcham, I was more than a little surprised. As it was only a shortish time from when the rails had been lifted . And howls of derision , were the main comments in the POW. But after a week or so from it starting to run, was decided it was in fact brilliant ! Mostly due to having the little sign telling you how long the tram was gonna take to get to Phipps Bridge. This was quite the novelty back then. And being able to get to either Wimbledon, under ten Minutes ! Or Croydon under 30 mins. Of course Croydon would still only get a yearly visit !!

Flight of fancy is a fantastic idea! I lived in Muswell Hill for 8 years and it’s very congested. A tram would be perfect to tackle the gradients of the area. The W7 bus is not sufficient.

Short sighted in the least to close this line,as a minimum a tram line would even suffice these days,as it would certainly ease the traffic and connect a part of London that is overlooked.

@OhSome1HasThisName

2 жыл бұрын

that light railway proposal sounded perfect

@eattherich9215

2 жыл бұрын

The car became king and trams and rail line were simply torn up. The state of traffic is horrible, but it's too late and expensive to have a rethink about a better way.

@risvegliato

2 жыл бұрын

short sighted indeed. Like lots of rail closures in the 50's and 60's across the country culminating in the Beeching report. You are very lucky in London that most of your railways were not closed!

I have an alternate proposal, it’s completely outlandish but I’m going for it. Reopen the Muswell Hill line, connect it to the Moorgate line, then tunnel it through to South London (Camberwell on route) to Nunhead then revive the High Level Branch line to Crystal Palace, and as this line would serve both Crystal Palace and Alexandra Palace, might I suggest the name of this line (that will never be built sadly) be called the Palace line?

I had a remarkably similar idea for the Parkland Walk becoming a half-path half-light rail line before even hearing about this! Crazy how the world works.

The tram solution is an interesting one so long as it does indeed go further. Otherwise I'd say through running into the city would be the way to go. The line caught my interest when I did a homestay program just minutes from Alley Palley, there was the moment of "Huh, what's a brick arch doing here? This looks like it's for a railway.", and proceeded to get into the deep dive on the line's history.

I grew up in a large block of flats on the corner of mount view road and crouch Hill and was there as a child when this line closed to passenger traffic. There was a pathway from Hornsey Rise, Hazelmere Road and the top of Crouch Hill to access Crouch End Station. We always regarded it as a bit spooky and called it the Wooden Bridge Allie, as there was a wooden bridge on the up end (to Finsbury Park end) of Crouch End Station. Funny how you (thank you) and Geof Marshall have brought it back to me nearly 70 years on. Thank you.

@capcompass9298

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a Muswell Hillbilly but very rarely use the walking tracks. I think the rail should hve been built. I think Maggie's idea of the Archway Motorway was a 1960s idea with the A1 through Archway, and the M1 through Camden.

I've walked that Parkland walk many times and it's a nice green space in London but I have also felt every time that it would be great to see it used for it's designed purpose, as a commuter railway route. Who know's, one day it might still happen. The route you suggested sounds like a great way to connect up this part of London.

Jago, you are definitely not just "some guy on KZread". Your channel content is entertaining, educational and thought provoking. I have long regretted the closure of the Alexandra Palace branch as I often stayed with my Grandparents, who lived in Muswell Hill. If it had been completed, it would have been fairly close to the area that would have been served by Crossrail 2 (Both Alexandra Palace and New Southgate stations were in walking distance of my grandparents' house). I had never heard of the railcar scheme, but the suggestions of light railway or trams using the route sound rather appealing and a lot cheaper than the grandiose schemes that politicians come up with.

The Alexander Palace station is NOT disabled accessible. That is one heap good reason to restore something that could get me to the top of the hill.

I suspect that the best way to reuse the abandoned lines earmarked for the Northern Heights project would be as some kind of relief route for the Bank branch of the Northern line - perhaps a Crossrail project which would resurrect the scheme as far as Edgware (with provision to extend to Watford Junction via Bushey Heath) in the north, and to fulfil various historical proposals for a deep tunnel connection between Moorgate and suburban services out of Waterloo. With the rebuilding of Finchley Central station (planned, but never executed), there would be enough capacity for four sets of tracks between East Finchley and Finchley Central, and for the Mill Hill East branch to be doubled.

You say “unforgiving gradient” I say “perfect site for a flume”. We just don't have enough high-gradient commuter canal transport.

This is genuinely a very entertaining Channel

@ste2442

2 жыл бұрын

Couldn’t have put it better myself

Flight of fancy or not, it's a fact that anywhere you've got cars crawling along in a traffic jam it's a sign you need a train along that route. People mainly take their car for the convenience of being able to get where they're going quickly and easily, but if you have a proper built train system, no matter if it's tram, light, or real trains, that provide the same convenience (without costing an arm and leg) many people will take the train instead of the car. But when there's no acceptable public transport whatsoever, what you get is more and more cars with every year that pass.

@kaitlyn__L

2 жыл бұрын

The thing I’ve never understood is why the people who are dedicated to using their cars 100% of the time object to such proposals. It would lessen the traffic and make their driving far nicer! I suppose they think they’re the same as everyone else and that no one would use the tram, even though evidence shows time and again only a small portion of people are truly that dedicated.

I have never been to what i think of as the old world. Born in the states, and no real hope of ever visiting. Yet, Somehow your videos fascinate me. Very well done, Sir.

I have a soft spot for this particular line, as it features in one of my favourite children’s adventure novels, The Horn of Mortal Danger - about a secret underground civilisation under North London, complete with steam trains and canals, which connects to the abandoned Highgate tunnel.

Well, now, this is very weird… my previous post re: Camberwell station was prompted by having journeyed from Muswell Hill (never the easiest route for a south Londoner, made less so by a week of industrial action…) necessitating a 134 bus ride from and back to Kentish Town station. I love the idea of Croydon-style tram so long as the natural landscape and bat cave are safeguarded, as it largely has been at Morden Hall Park, etc. Lumme, I’m beginning to feel as though I have a tracker device attached… oh, wait, I do - it’s called a mobile phone.

@eattherich9215

2 жыл бұрын

I used to go to Highgate from south east London on a regular basis and before I got the 60+ Oyster pass, the journey was made on a series of buses and took a very long time.

@johnm2012

2 жыл бұрын

@@eattherich9215 Did getting your Oyster pass improve the journey, other than making it cheaper, or did you stop making the journey, perhaps due to retirement?

It seems strange that in the London area, only Croydon has a tram system. Your proposal would be a great way of changing that and providing a valuable link across North London.

For my two penneth-worth, I would serve the bats an eviction notice and reinstate the line as a light rail. The connection to Finsbury Park would provide a quick and easy exchange into Central London. As the bulk of the infrastructure is still in place it would be a cost effective way, not to mention a greener, solution to the ever increasing road congestion. It would also have the bonus of relieving congestion on the Northern Line by providing access to both the Piccadilly and Victoria lines at Finsbury Park. The addition connection to Alexander Place would be a handy phase 2, but perhaps a little more of a challenge.

@MervynPartin

2 жыл бұрын

Quite right too. I have often wondered how bats used to manage in the millions of years that they have been around before humans built hedges, tunnels and bat bridges for them to use.

@barrieshepherd7694

2 жыл бұрын

I see the bats as guardians of our unused infrastructure - it they had not taken residence in many tunnels and under overbridges etc. the Dept. of Transport would have bulldozed the infrastructure away or filled it with concrete. It's a crying shame that this old route was never reinstated/completed after the war but I fear that any reinstatement at present is unlikely. We could of course have studies, impact statements, geological studies and archaeological digs visits from Levelling up Ministers and even an announcement from No 10 that a line will be built. then, as all the other rail announcements, bits would be shaved off, NIMBY's would lobby (privately of course) No. 10, and suddenly as fast as you can say HS2 extension or Link to WCML or Northern Rail Powerhouse or new trans Pennine link etc.etc. it will all be dropped and some transport guru (who no one has heard of) will publish a paper demonstrating that existing routes and services are adequate. (now retires to pub and puts cynic pen back in box)

@baxtermarrison5361

2 жыл бұрын

@@barrieshepherd7694 Indeed, the bat's have done a cracking job. I'm sure it's not beyond the wit of man to provide an alternative location within the local.

@kaitlyn__L

2 жыл бұрын

@@MervynPartin there were a lot more caves, rock faces with precipices, huge old trees to sit in/under, undisturbed before we started developing everything! Much like how rock pigeons evolved for cliffside roosting but have repurposed the edges of bridges, corners of buildings, and so forth.

Surely the day must come for this project in some shape or form. What with Global warming/heating & the phasing out of petrol/diesel vehicles and the somewhat dubious idea that they will all be replace with EV's, more public transport is a must.

Perhaps Victorian optimism might be re-realised in a new Carolingian era. I have often wondered how many (seemingly underused) rail lines around the capital could be used for passenger services. Either as light rail, tram, or Over-Underground extensions. Indeed, how many abandoned routes could be re-instated in some form. Perhaps its more likely in the 21st century if the impetus comes from potential passengers rather than rail-barons trying to turn a profit.

It seems a bit of a shame that the Ally Pally line shut. Most of the electricity infrastructure was in place to upgrade the route. It just seems to lack fore sight.

@surreygoldprospector576

2 жыл бұрын

I heard that some infrastructure was removed to electrify the Epping-Ongar branch in 1957. That would be ironic, as the Central Line route was always a rural line, and closed to LT in 1994.

@roberthill6216

2 жыл бұрын

They built a sub station for the line, I forget where it was, either Crouch End or Muswell Hill, that never got used for the line. It just seems to me to be a waste of resources, as it was pretty much ready to go.

@edhumphreys8990

2 жыл бұрын

@@roberthill6216 They rebuilt Highgate Station (high level) in a 1930 style to project the line as a modern new line. The Northern Heights (NH) project was part of the New Works project, which was an extensive program of expansion, including the extension to the Central Line, which got completed, except for the West Ruislip to Denham section, after WW2. The 1938 tube stock was purchased as part of the New Works project, to run on the Northern Line, including the Northern Heights sections. Aldenham Bus Overhaul works was actually built as a train depot, for the Elstree extension and got converted into the bus overhaul works when the NH project was abandoned and LT's Chiswick Works couldn't cope with with the demand.

Great video Jago. Loved the indulgement into a future light rail route over the Northern Heights. If only all these planned routes had been followed through, like in your previous video on the national rail routes criss crossing Central London, the Northern line extension to Bushey Heath, the Met line extension from Chesham to Berkhamsted, etc etc, Not forgetting all the LCC tramway routes that were closed in the 1930s -1950's. Just only if they had remained and been invested in, just think how great London's transport network could have been !!.

That's a pretty good idea Jago for muswell hill to have a second tramlink given how congested London seems to be these days.

@TheNemocharlie

2 жыл бұрын

Problem is, it's in the arse end of nowhere.

@britishfilmguy

2 жыл бұрын

Had a feeling it would be, haven't been to london in a while so not overly familiar with the various areas

"Recycled at Upminster". Upcycling if ever I heard it.

Tram or light railway - either option would probably meet the need of the local community. The new trams in Birmingham don't even need overhead wires (making me wonder if we should call them something else), which would get the new line(s) up and running more quickly.

This should have been restored long ago, it is unfortunate and short sighted that we do not value connectivity and mobility, most fail to understand ease of travel is very often the foundation of economic prosperity. Separately I think one of biggest tragedies in recent times is the original proposed work at West Hampstead which included an underpass connecting Underground, Rail and Overground which was never commissioned, a once in a life time opportunity lost... till this day I wonder how this was missed.

@kaitlyn__L

2 жыл бұрын

I do hope in the future we can travel between nations as easily as boroughs of a city, or inside the Schengen Area, and they’ll look back on our era of heavily enforced borders and economic exclusion as a strange, strange thing. Ease of travel brings not only economic boons but also does a lot for interpersonal relationships and mental health!

Another research triumph Jago. In neighbouring Kilburn , how about a documentary about the 2 underground stations Kilburn Park & Kilburn Jubilee, Brondesbury and Kilburn High Road Overground? Wiith remnants of the Kilburn station pediments in the High Road, and the Kilburn Vale original entrance & stationmaster's house in Belsize Rd opposite the London General Omnibus Company building. Just a suggestion , as we have 4 stations in Kilburn High Road . There were plans for a Cricklewood to Victoria & Waterloo high speed Kearney underground line , with a stop at Quex Rd KHR. Let's hear for Kilburn , divided and ignored by the 3 Boroughs that divide us up ,😃 Well done again .

A genuinely fascinating video. As someone who spent 10 years in West London [next to Royal Oak] I rarely ventured towards Muswell Hill due to it's relative inaccessibility. I recently moved to New Barnet and have been exploring the area. The initial plans to open out the Northern Line to that area would have been tremendous. I will say, Thameslink is a relatively good compromise. I work in Canary Wharf and rather than commute via High Barnet, using Thameslink [which goes through Alexandra Palace] is air-conditioned, relatively more spacious at fractionally higher cost is the way to go to access this strangely neglected part of London.

@johnburns4017

2 жыл бұрын

It is not as if Muswell, etc, are on the edge of London with fields one side. It is not, it is a way inside London totally surrounded by urban districts.

The research you do for this is truly impressive. Great channel. Thanks.

Always thought this route would be good to incorporate into the North West London Light Rail proposals that were mooted a few years ago. Sharing part of the Northern Line between Highgate and Finchley central and taking over the Mill Hill branch.

Jago, have you done a video on the Livingstone-era tram proposals, namely the Cross-River Tram and the West London Tram? If not, I'd be interested to see one (or two)! I gather there were some genuine issues to be overcome with the route of the latter scheme, but the north-south one seemed sound to me. It was strange that no mention was made of eventually uniting the various routes either.

@JagoHazzard

2 жыл бұрын

The Cross-River Tram is one that’s been on my to-do list for a while.

@MrGreatplum

2 жыл бұрын

I was about to suggest the very same!

The trouble with a tramway is the massive disruption that is caused when laying the tracks along roadways. Quite a lot of the Supertram tracks in my home city of Sheffield run on the roads and a lot of disruption was caused (particularly in and around the city centre when they were laying the tracks in between 1992 and 1995)

@johnm2012

2 жыл бұрын

An awful lot of tramways were dismantled in the middle of the last century. I wonder if people complained about the disruption caused then?

@MrKpsuk84

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnm2012 probably not because on roadways the rails were mostly left in place and in later years paved over when the roads needed resurfacing

Those GWR diesel railcars look like something out of Terry Gilliam's Brazil

@jcxz983

2 жыл бұрын

Brazil just looks very english and very, very 50s.

I live in Bounds Green and sometimes enjoy the woodland walk. With all the new Low Traffic Neighbourhood schemes closing off roads in the area things have become very congested and it is now normal to see long lines of traffic where there were none before. A light railway or tram network in the area could be a very good solution to the increased traffic problems. The visionary local councillors want us to walk, cycle or take buses everywhere but it isn't always practical to walk or cycle if you need to carry back shopping and the buses are often stuck in traffic. A local rail network would be great and I'm sure it would get a lot of support and usage if it ever got built.

Railway flights of fancy could be a series in itself! Really enjoy looking at what could have been versus what could still be in London transport

Ally Pally needs its own station given the increasing amount of use it gets and it’s not helped by being on a hill. A light rail solution seems to be the way forward.

I live less than two minutes walk from the Parkland Walk and have always been in two minds about the idea of running a light rail or tram service along it. It's a great idea in transport terms but it would destroy what the Parkland Walk has become since I moved in around here in the mid-1980s. It's now more or less mature woodland which would have to be seriously cut back. If the proposal ever came to a local referendum or something I think I'd probably end up tossing a coin. There are two decent bus routes from Finsbury Park to Muswell Hill and to Wood Green (and beyond) which cover both parts of the unbuilt bits of the Northern Heights project other than Highgate but then there's another bus for that. I think that what this part of north London really needs is a tram system.

@PlanetoftheDeaf

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. I think people forget just how well used the Parkland Walk is used

Love the GWR railcars.

My preference would be DLR stock and infrastructure and reusing the tunnel, that's what it's there for. I can't understand Haringay's and Islington's beef. Train infrasructure and stock is far more passenger-friendly than buses, which could be reduced, saving on battery (manufacturing) pollution.

@alangiles2763

2 жыл бұрын

I am surprised the London Mayor doesn't compel Haringay and Islington to accept the plan - after all he has compelled councils to allow housebuilding in all sorts of sites in both Labour and Conservative councils, however inappropriate. Perhaps he fears the champagne socialists of Islington are NIMBIES and would mount a crusade in the Guardian?

My idea for revival is basically a recycling of part of the northern hights plan. The Northern line takes over the Finsbury Park to Moorgate line again (with new underground platforms built at Finsbury Park and a connection to the Bank branch at Moorgate) then an extension along the old route to Archway and then Alexandra Palace with provisions to extend to Wood Green via Alexandra Palace mainline Station (underground)

@iankemp1131

2 жыл бұрын

Except that the Hertford North and Welwyn GC trains down to Moorgate via FP and Highbury and Islington are genuinely useful (and now you can connect direct to the Elizabeth Line at Moorgate). Where would you put them? No room at Kings Cross really.

Thank you some guy on the Internet, very informed and informative which is unusual for many guys on the Internet. Have you done this before?

@eattherich9215

2 жыл бұрын

Jago Hazzard has done this before. In fact, there are many videos devoted to transport and anything that takes his fancy.

@rachelcarre9468

2 жыл бұрын

@@eattherich9215 No. There is no evidence for such things. None. Mr Hazzard, as he says himself is just ‘some guy on the Internet’, he couldn’t create multiple videos spanning several years covering railways, underground and architecture. No one could. That would be superhuman!

Another excellent video Jago - thank you! I have always thought that with the increasing population density of London, even a tube line to Muswell Hill would be viable nowadays. But failing that, I support your proposal for a tram/Light Rail. I would probably move the bats out of Highgate though, and let the trains have their tunnel back.

@Twittler1

2 жыл бұрын

You’d never be able to get the bats out. Once they’ve settled, that’s it! They’ll all die before they move! There are precious few similar places also, but even then, it’d have to be a new colony.

I really believe that we (i.e. all UK residents) should encourage the growth of light rail and buses ( and electric trains) as not only more ecologically sensible but economically a better deal. - Quite simply there are too many petrol and diesel vehicles on the roads. - A cheap/affordable public transport system would boost the economy and reduce pollution. Which would you prefer,a monthly or annual travel pass at around 10% of your income or owning a car that gobbles up 20% ? (rough figures for the purpose of debate).

@eddisstreet

2 жыл бұрын

Sadly the government does not think that way and it seems likely that tube services are going to be reduced through lack of funding. There is also the threat of several London bus routes being reduced or withdrawn. (And Jago's idea would almost certainly mean the end of the W3 which at present runs through Alexandra Park)

@barrieshepherd7694

2 жыл бұрын

Did you not receive the memo? Cars are GOOD, they need expensive fuel from which we get lots of TAX, then the drivers commit heinous crimes like crossing a white cycle line boundary or touching a yellow box so we can FINE them and because they are terrible polluters we can make them pay even more money just to move around towns. And even more crafty we remove all the places they can park so they have to drive around in circles using more fuel. It's all a great wheeze! 😂 The whole countries finance system would collapse if everyone expected public transport to work and they ditched their cars. /s BTW - if you had not worked it out

Back in the old days ie the 60s Finsbury Park station was interesting as there were very large RSJ girders erected at the station between Seven Sisters Road and Stroud Green Road, these were erected pre war and were for the new platforms to connect the Northern City Line to Alexander Palace the line would have crossed over the East coast mainline on flyover just North of Finsbury Park Station then that Ruddy German painter went and spoilt everything Oh well at least it wasn't Covid lol

@bulleidboy1

2 жыл бұрын

I was born in Muswell Hill in 1947 and went to school there from about 1951/2 until about 1960 - then moved to Friern Barnet. When visiting friends in Finsbury Park I remember clearly those large RSJ's you mention, and often wondered what they were for. Thanks for the explanation.

@highpath4776

2 жыл бұрын

I think he was Austrian , technically

@barrieshepherd7694

2 жыл бұрын

@@highpath4776 I have an Austrian friend and he is proud that the Country has managed to convince the world that 'Mr. Hilter' was German and that Beethoven was Austrian 😂

@Steven_Rowe

2 жыл бұрын

@@highpath4776 I think you missed the humour,, technically speaking of course

@Steven_Rowe

2 жыл бұрын

@@bulleidboy1 if you cycled down Muswell Hill you would never have to pedal into you reached Finsbury Park That was some Hill. I went to school in Hornsey opposite Priory Road.

Having immersed myself in 4 days of the Goodwood FoS, this was a nice video presentation to come back to. Thx 👍🏿

Nice one. As those Muswell Hill cowboys would sing: You've realy got me!!! You are the stately home on my sunny afternoon!

I'm a rail fan, but personally speaking, as a resident of the area, I'm glad to have the Parkland Walk the way it is.

Thank you Jago, you are a cool breeze on a warm day.

Alloa train line and station was closed in the late 1960s it is back up and running, so it might still reopen as you can never tell what will happen in the future.

Norman Stanley Fletcher, Ronnie Barker's character From Porridge lived at Muswell Hill.

Earlier in 1974-75 there was also a plan by Labour Councillor George Meehan to build a dual lane carriage way and council houses along the track from Finsbury Park to Highgate. However, local opposition put an end to that idea. I was one of the people who protested against that at the time. PS I still remember seeing battery locomotives in the early 1970s taking empty train stock along the line. Was always exciting to watch them from the window.

On our Tube Nerds Bingo Card I think we have to have "Northern Heights Scheme" as one of the squares. Charles Yerkes in the centre of course.

I appreciate the sparing of the bats' peace and quiet!

Government has always been cagey about introducing tram systems. Dating back to the earliest times of generation 1 tramlines, it was a) the 'unsightly'overhead wires then b) the introduction of the lower classes (who loved the cheap trams) into middle class residential areas. Then, of course, the oil and road lobby took over from the 1930s into the 'rail is of the past' ideas of the 1960s. After Livingstone and into Johnson's mayoralty, the much-needed north-south tramline across the Thames was shelved.

@TalesOfWar

2 жыл бұрын

I remember Majors government cutting funding for the Metrolink in Manchester and it having to be scaled back massively. Only Manchester and Bury councils put the money forward when central government decided let's not bother. As a result, those two places became rather well to do places and enjoyed a rather nice economic boom. I imagine this didn't make the government happy, they hate anything outside of the M25 getting nice things lol. Tory ones especially.

@edhumphreys8990

2 жыл бұрын

Not the government, the local councils who owed the tram network in London. In London, the central section where trams ran, an underground conduit system was used, whereas out in the suburbs, it was overhead wires.

Jago, As a Haringey councillor in the 1990s I can tell you from first hand experience that the proposals at that time were about as popular as , well, the most unpopular thing you can imagine. :) It's a great shame that the Northern Heights never happened and that the line was closed, but it is never coming back. :(

@tommilton5753

2 жыл бұрын

As a former East Finchley resident, I'd be interested to know why Haringey council were so opposed. To me, it would seem something a left wing car hating body would jump at.

@stephenbrasher

2 жыл бұрын

@@tommilton5753 It wasn't ever formerly proposed. It was the residents who were against.

@DavidWilliams-km5xu

2 жыл бұрын

Totally daft. Their loss. A tram or metro would bring more business to that area.

@highpath4776

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavidWilliams-km5xu precisely

@surreygoldprospector576

2 жыл бұрын

Never say never... The Borders Railway in Scotland has re-opened, and so did Exeter-Okehampton last year after a gap of nearly 50 years.

I once lived on Hornsey Rise, and I as I walked the old line I often fantasised on what might have been. You have articulated my imagination well, sir.

Nice GWR diesel Railcar photo Jago! under British Rail they shedded a few at Southall Sheds 81C. During T Blair Government a Watford Tramway got junked would have used the old Croxley Green track behind Vicarage Rd football stadium great video as usual Ta!

“The moving finger writes; and, having writ, moves on: nor all thy piety nor wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all thy tears wash out a word of it." -- Omar Khayyam.

This has to be my favourite shout out to Patreon patrons; " You are the electric tram to my unforgiving gradient.." Thank you, Jago. Haringey in da house!

We don't need to sacrifice a park for a railway. At this stage of development London's only option for better transport is more efficient use of the roads, we need to stop using them as car parks and use that space for trams, cycling and improved walking environments. Fewer cars, car clubs, smaller cars and off-street storage could help, but the point is cars are a lot like villas by the sea, there is not enough coastline for everyone just as there is not enough road to park on.

It's so interesting how things have gone full circle. In the 50s and 60s it was so fashionable to get rid of train routes because everyone was going to own a car and we know how that has worked out. In Victoria Australia where I live, once closed routes have been partially re-opened and, with Melbourne growing like Topsy, more will come. It's as if the demand for railways is finally catching up. I'm sure it is the same in the UK. This line is a prime candidate. 😊

Interesting idea for a way redevelop and reopen the line... Have you thought of creating a company called 'Muswell Hill Hazzard Metro Railways' and floating the idea? 🙂

@grahamwhitworth9454

2 жыл бұрын

Why not just "Hazzardous Railways"?

@lionvillelion

2 жыл бұрын

Needs more handlebar mustaches and mutton chop sideburns.

@MrDavil43

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe there's a descendant of Jago's old pal Yerkes who'd join him in setting up a company?

It should be reinstated as a heritage railway as london needs more heritage railways the closest one we have in the Epping and onger railway

Lovely video Jago and great idea. Slight inaccuracy: the Finsbury Park to Highgate section was still in use for empty tube stock from the Northern City line to Highgate tube depot right up to when the Northern City ceased to become a tube in October 1975, not 1970 as you and Wikipedia state. I remember seeing these trains as a young trainspotter at Finsbury Park...how sad am I!

Would be an excellent idea and well needed for the area

Ah Muswell Hill, the place I lived in for a month in the late 90s. When all of us went to sleep in the flat there was no floor space left between us and the furniture. Then a friend of a friend who was visiting, who happened to be a heroin addict robbed my last £40. Fun times!

@mbrady2329

2 жыл бұрын

Towards the very end of the period when Muswell Hill was still bedsit land.

@TadeuszCantwell

2 жыл бұрын

@@mbrady2329 That makes sense I was confused when I more recently heard of the place refered to as an upmarket area.

Love the streamlined GWR engine @ 2:21- straight out of diesel punk/sci-fi concept art

Well, the cheapest solution would be a BRT-system with overhead power lines. The old track must be paved, which should not be too costly. BRT runs on tyres, and there'll be no screaming from a tram's steel wheels. VanHool from Belgium or Irizar from Spain have BRT-systems, and they are produced in Europe. Ticket machines can be inside the units. A project worth to be realized!

I was coincidentally looking at this line a week or two ago, and came to much the same conclusion that you did. Of course something DLR-style would be nice, but I think the use of trams makes the extension to Wood Green much more likely.

This is a good idea, but I think they should extend it to Finchley. On a related note, there should be a tram from my house to everywhere I may conceivably want to go. It should be on demand, free to ride and funded entirely by people who are not me. That would be great.

Used to travel on the rhubarb & Custard Railcars on local services out of Paddington as far as Slough or Windsor in the 60's but mainly one stop Westbourne Park to Royal Oak Train Spotting if you had a return ticket & were "Behaved" you could stay all day & if yoi missed a number on the way in you'd get it when it came to the Turntable directly opposite Royal Oak!! Oh Happy Childhood days without a square eye in Sight ??

My Aunt lived in Cranley Gardens and as a small kid loved to watch the steam trains passing high up on the viaduct As for trams Biggest mistake ever, getting rid of them and then the Trolley buses..Used to ride both in Mitcham, Croydon, Sutton, Catford, Downham... So how about the trams now running in Sydney that use batteries that re-charge at each stop..so no overhead! (I believe?) No doubt someone will correct me

As you ask I would run some Overground trains from Stratford to Ally pally, releasing capacity for some Goblin through to Clapham Jn, and extending ELX to Willesden Jn Lower bays from Highbury reinstating Primrose Hill.

I would enjoy a whole series just of Jago "Flight of fancy" routes :)

That tram idea does atchually sound pretty good, my only concern is the steep incline on the hill at Ally Pally

I'm in favour of trams to bypass the tunnels at Highgate by running over the roads, but I'd like the line to rejoin the railway at Highgate depot as soon as the lie of the land allows. This way, it can still head over the Alexandra Palace branch, with the Parkland Walk retained alongside the upper edge of the cuttings and treetop walkways (fully accessible) and Muswell Hill and St. James's schools rebuilt as state-of-the-art, some parts on top of tunnels built above-ground. The line can also run to East Finchley, then North on an elevated section above the Northern line to Finchley Central, where it would return to ground level, taking over the Mill Hill East branch and on to Copthall, Mill Hill Broadway and on a new elevated section (crossing over the motorway and bypassing the nature reserve) to Edgware and on to Elstree, Bushey and Watford. Instead of terminating south at Finsbury Park, the trams can run to King's Cross St. Pancras (where they return to street running) and on to the cross-river tram route, ultimately linking up to the Croydon system. From Wood Green, the trams can run East,ultimately to the East London tram network, or from Alexandra Palace main-line Station (back to street running) to Bounds Green, Hillside Gardens, Pinkham Way, Colney Hatch Lane, Friern Barnet, North Finchley, Woodside Park, Foley Brook and rejoin the line to Edgware and Watford just before Mill Hill Broadway

Certainly interesting ideas. Is there enough demand from Crouch End and Stroud Green? Could it be a Piccadilly branch? The Muswell Hill area has a stronger case - maybe an extra Northern Line branch out of the tunnel approaching East Finchley? The tram idea is not bad - maybe with a deviation via Crouch Hill for a Goblin interchange - although needing to change at Finsbury Park or Wood Green, plus some digging up streets (££££ in Edinburgh).

It would be good to see all them closed re-opened!!!🙂🚂🚂🚂

Or.. Fantasy Railway lines. reinstate East Finchley to Finsbury Park. Then run overground Moorgate to Finchley to Barnet. New Tramline muswell hill to East Finchley. Terminate northern line at EF.

If technically feasible, I like the idea bringing DLR from bank all the way to Finsbury Park or Highgate (depending on whether conservation is in a higher priority). It will be a cheaper and more effective relief line to Northern/Victoria/Piccadilly line than crossrail 2, at least for north london. Also capacity of 3 car DLR is reasonably close to 6 car tube train now. Another plus is that DLR tends to be more strike free

There was/is a faction of the Conservative party that regards rail passenger transport as fundamentally socialist. Ernie Marples (may thy name live in infamy) and Maggie Thatcher personified this idea. They thought that only the lowest of the low would be seen traveling on a bus, and trains were only preferable if they had first class carriages. Ta JH.

@1963TOMB

2 жыл бұрын

It also helped if your husband ran a haulage company! Wasn't there also an MP that had connections with a road building company?

@Peasmouldia

2 жыл бұрын

@@1963TOMB Marples construction. They specialised in building bypasses and motorways. When Ernie became a minister of transport, he put it all in his wife's name...

@rodjones117

2 жыл бұрын

Tories despise *all* public transport, not just rail. Thatcher thought anyone "still" travelling by bus by the age of (I think) 30 was a loser...

Surely the residents of Islington and Haringey would not object to a tube line, fast and efficient or maybe Crossrail 3? Got to try and keep up with the French.

Connecting the Nortrhern City to anything else at Moorgate would be impossible without major changes to at least one other line, c0nstrained as it is by the Circle above, the Northern below and Crossrail directly ahead.

@surreygoldprospector576

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe instead of diverting a new tube line down the Northern City to Moorgate, they could just extend the existing overground from Finsbury Park to Alexandra Palace? This would serve the City at Moorgate, and have cross-platform interchange at Highbury & Islington to the Victoria Line for the West End.

Jago is a wizard at statistics and wonderful photos of his subject... Thanks Jago...not to be missed....

The Northern Line from Edgware to Bushey Heath should of happened and would of extended to Watford Junction. With the extension of the Northern Line Battersea Power Station extension to Clapham Junction that is still in the planning. And Thameslink is having a new railway station called Brent Cross West which is located near to Brent Cross Northern Line station and the shopping centre and is between Cricklewood and Hendon.

I like the idea of a tramway similar to the Croydon tram. One for south london and one for north london. Who knows maybe one for east and west london.

2:02 - He’ll never sell any ice cream going at that speed!🍦

That idea of using trans over the old line to Ally Pally makes perfect sense. That way you get the benefit of both Road and rail systems without having to do too much hard core civil engineering. Relatively speaking that is. Traffic has always been a mare around Hornsey, Wood Green and the rest in that area, so anything that eases that must be a worthwhile consideration 🤔 I’d love to see the old line reused, having walked it with my late father in the late 70s and got a fair share of memorabilia in a trade off with the wounds from bramble bushes and general ex-railway detritus that was still extant back then. However, I fear it might not come to fruition unless there’s a big fat bribe for some sort of development. Alas, it seems that such projects only come to fruition these days after a dance or two with Old Nick. But hell, that’s got to be better than nothing 😈 Cheers old fruit 👍🍻🍀

Great suggestions Jago. It needs to be built, along with other urban projects using old lines, tunnels and trackbeds, in other cities as well, rather than silly Crossrail 2, HS2, etc. They need to merge into other transport modes. It could be a _national project,_ with a flashy title for egotistical politicians to hang their name on. I am sure HS2 got the go ahead because Johnson thought it would be nicknamed the Boris line - if only he foresaw the opposition to it. Reinstating, and extending, urban rail is nearly always popular.

@highpath4776

2 жыл бұрын

HS2 would have been better in a tunnel joining HS1 and also out south to Croydon and Brighton too

@johnburns4017

2 жыл бұрын

@@highpath4776 Croydon and Brighton? They miss out the Liverpool City Region of 2 million and you want HS2 to go to Brighton?

@highpath4776

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnburns4017 Well we could then get a full fast train from Brighton to New Brighton

@johnburns4017

2 жыл бұрын

@@highpath4776 That is an idea.

Brilliant video sir!

Mr Hazard, you are marvellous. I think I love you.

Thanks Jago !

The GWR railcar on the thumbnail had me coupled up.

It is as if there has never been enough love for North London ❤ ♥ 💕

Jago, this all sounds very sensible which means it will never happen!