OK, I will stop using virtual backgrounds in these interviews soon, but I have a few interviews I already shot that have annoying backgrounds. After that, just my messy apartment!

@brunorivademar5356

4 жыл бұрын

Steve Guttenberg Audiophiliac all we care about is the content. And the content is good!

@gurdyman1

4 жыл бұрын

At first I thought, "Where did you get the freaky camera inflicted with Abstract Picasso disease?"

@jmpsmash

4 жыл бұрын

no big deal. we have been looking at your messy apartment for years already. :)

@miguelbarrio

4 жыл бұрын

I think the diva-free-wind-hair is fantastic... Love it. It's what I would expect to see if I had taken something... :)

@finscreenname

4 жыл бұрын

Thought I was on acid again....

I gave up “accuracy” for good, “fun” sound a long time ago. Flat is boring, love my horns!

Great to hear this discussed by you two with so much experience. I think Herb gets it right when he says, "when it FEELS real." Music is emotion. Herb Reichert is a national treasure. 🙏

There are 3 measurement DOMAINS...... The Frequency Domain, the Time Domain, and the Amplitude Domain (dynamics). All the focus by the accuracy camp has always been Frequency Response. But you can have a system, that measures perfectly flat frequency response, yet smears the time domain, and compresses the dynamics. A system like this will measure nice, but sound awful. Horns may not be flat in frequency, but they are more accurate in dynamics, and therefore sound more REAL. A panel speaker may have better time domain response, and therefore sound more transparent, but it will compress dynamics, and not measure flat. There are things to admire in all these different designs, and all are compromises.

@mysock351C

4 жыл бұрын

Speakers usually wont "compress" the dynamics at modest volumes (unless they are some cheap-ass ones with corrugated paper surround from Walmart or something). There definitely is non-linearity at higher volumes, which will cause distortion owing to the drivers getting close to their excursion limits. This can be easily seen on a spectrum analyzer if there is a fixed frequency tone or tones being played. There will no longer be a clean single peak being picked up by the mic but splatter at other frequencies once the amplitude is too great. I suppose its possible to have a non-linear amplitude response, but that's usually something like overdriving the speakers (something any speaker can be subject to) unless they have active circuitry in them. As said previously, though, this can be easily picked up with test gear since it will readily cause distortion to a sine wave. Compression can take place in the audio amplifier itself (some using switching topologies do it to avoid clipping) or any auxiliary equipment that you might be using, like software EQs, etc., of course. Or usually more often in the actual recording material itself given todays over-the-top recording levels. Still kind of hate that compared to the way it used to be. The other issue definitely is a problem. The more accurate term for "smearing" is phase nonlinearity (or varying group delay in the time domain). Cross over networks, EQs or anything that is selective with respect to frequency will impose a phase difference on the signal with varying frequencies. Ideally you want it to be reasonably flat. I have run into what your talking about when trying to make shit speakers sound good with an EQ. They were "flat" with respect to response on the test gear, but sound _very_ unnatural owing to the phase distortion from having to use so much corrections on the EQ.

@mysock351C

4 жыл бұрын

Also important to mention _transient response_ as it has a big effect on how speakers sound. If they are flat with respect to amplitude/frequency with a continuous signal with have poor transient response (e.g. ringing, overshoot, etc.), they will have pukey sounding, sloppy bass. The amplifiers damping factor can help here, but it requires an error signal (e.g. back-EMF that doesn't correlate to the driving signal) to work, but ideally the speakers should be adequately damped and not exhibit lots of overshoot or slow response when driven with rapidly varying signals. Obviously all speakers have their limits, but a lot of the tiny self-powered speakers with bass-reflex enclosures seem to have this issue since they have a small piss-ant driver being pushed _hard_ by a power amp.

@FOH3663

4 жыл бұрын

@@mysock351C I disagree. I believe there's a great deal more dynamic compression occuring, even at modest playback levels, than many enthusiasts acknowledge. As one of the subtractive types of distortion, this power compression is precisely what Herb is discussing in this particular video. I've built my primary system around the characteristics of dynamic realism, via mitigation of dynamic compression. I'm particularly bothered by the absence of such realism... we all have our priorities, dynamic realism is mine. There's both magnetic compression, and thermal compression. As we know, heat is a by-product of current flow.

@mysock351C

4 жыл бұрын

@@FOH3663 I've taken measurements with an audio spectrum analyzer on several speakers for yucks. Using two examples (Sony SS-MF315 and Polk S55 speakers), at low volumes the speakers were capable of producing pure tones without much sign of harmonics, indicating that they were fairly linear. At higher volumes, the Sony woofers started producing additional harmonic spurs as well as intermodulation distortion during a two-tone test. This indicates that the suspension and surround are starting to limit the motion of the speaker. The mid-ranges also experienced some non-linearities. At higher volumes, all three drivers generate significant harmonic content during single tone tests. For the Polks the midrange drivers did ok, but the tweeters there produce harmonic content for almost all volumes, probably due to them being new, and of a different design. Doesn't seem to affect the sound, but it is there on the analyzer.

@mysock351C

4 жыл бұрын

@@FOH3663 And for reference, if a speaker/amplifier can produce a pure tone on a measuring instrument without any other harmonics, then it can be assumed to be reasonably linear. Obviously a microphone wont be as sensitive as a distortion analyzer, but it can be assumed that the THD is < 1% if only a single tone is present. Any sign at all of any other tones or IMD during a single or two-tone test indicates nonlinearities for either the amplifier or speakers. Unless your using a single-ended tube amp (e.g. a Decware or similar), most amplifiers are very linear throughout their power ranges, and will produce very little harmonic distortion. The speakers, however, will produce almost all of the harmonic distortion, and this can be easily heard at higher volumes.

2 of my favorite reviewer together

Great discussion. Nelson Pass also describes it well and realistically. He cites measurement as important for obtaining baseline distortion, reliability and repeatability. But his real work comes in by listening and tweaking until he gets the sound he seeks. He has a small cadre of like minded guys who all use the same speakers for listening tests and rely on the group assessment before deciding on the finished product. That thought process appeal to me especially after all the abuse I've seen from the engineering crowd that only reference their scope and chastise those that depend on their ears to assess the sound. When I tour an audio show, when a room sounds good, I find a First Watt or Pass Labs amp. I also think that Paul at PS Audio described the tube vs solid state pretty well. As a manufacturer he avoided tubes as they are more prone to service issues. But he relented after a trusted partner forced him to listen to amp prototypes with a tube front end vs solid state. The tube front end could not be beat. The output side of the amp is well suited to great solid state to get the power output. Personally, I like simple triode designs with great power supply. Then you must deal with the output transformer. This must be either a very big well made device ($$$$$) or a good OTL design. I chose the latter.

@timwillson9284

4 жыл бұрын

These silly audio golden ears snobbery discussions still grate on me after all these years. That your preference for analog Over digital, tube over solid state,and anything but class D doesn't showcase snobbery I don't know what does. There are superb examples of each and looking condescendingly askance at anyone with different preferences demeans the hobby. I get some enthusiasts want to fiddle around with vinyl and its idiosyncrasies and rituals and nostalgia factor. But good digital is also spectacular and without all the muss and fuss ,not to mention instant access to literally any music you wish via streaming or hi rez files. Kind of like comparing hi performance internal combustion performance cars to the new electric Supercars. VERY DIFFERENT INDEED. However at the objective performance level the Electric technology wins hands down.You may prefer the growls,smells and unforgiving performance criteria of Internal combustion ala Ferrari but the future belongs to the Tesla's , Porche electrics etc. The same could be said of digital audio compared to analog. There is no economy of scale to analog. Yes it's possible to buy world class analog rigs at outsize prices. While the analog groupies spend $40,000.00 for phone preamps, Mr. Sanders provides an entire world class digital system including built in room correction for 25,000.00 that rivals anything out there from the price no object crowd.

@PanAmStyle

4 жыл бұрын

Tim Willson Why is preference necessarily “snobbery”?

Euphony. It has been scorned ever since I started this hobby. Now it is my goal.

I enjoyed this video very much today. Good way to start the morning. I’m very late to the Audiophile world and a bottom feeder at best but truly enjoy trying to interpret two guys with so much experience and info. I run Klipsch Forte IIIs with a PrimaLuna Prologue Premium Integrated Tube Amp. I have Amazon HD and an old Sansui SR-737 with Ortofon Bronze cartridge. I never really think about “accuracy” when listening but when I finally got my turntable really dialed in I prefer vinyl all day if it’s a good pressing. That tells me I’m ok with the “distortion” factor and not worried about the last 0. I just enjoy what I have. I do have an old Denon POA-2400A power amp that I had hooked up with a Harman Kardon Citation 25 Preamp that is absolutely brilliant for the $185 bucks total I spent on both used. I’ve kept both for future listening. Thanks again for the video!

@adotopp1865

4 жыл бұрын

How are you a "bottom feeder". I would think that you love to listen to the system you have. So you are an "audiophile" (loves to listen) as much as the next guy.

Herb is a good, refreshing voice in the community. His experience shows. I love him more in person than in print.

Steve, Great interview. As in PLEASE do MORE of these. I learn so much and so very Grateful. Thank you.

I always love hearing what Herb has to say. "Dust particles of information", what a perfect description.

One of the best conversations I've heard about hifi notwithstanding Steve's shift in and out of the space-time continuum. Thanks again for sharing these insights. Yes, happiness in listening to music is what it's all about.

Thanks for this informative and interesting interview with Herb, very grateful for that, Steve. It's pure pleasure to listen to your wisdom and philosophy about this theme. Thanks a lot, keep up your great work and stay healthy 😊

The virtual background is cool man. Feel like I'm on an old acid trip from highschool. Hahahahaha

When I see and hear these two great guys talking, I miss Art Dudley. What a loss.

@timothyfreeseha4056

Жыл бұрын

Me too! A great writer, and a teacher. I loved his sense of humour, and he was a real listener- to me, a voice that reminded me to stop & listen.

Great input guys! I have been tweeking horn speakers lately,and having a blast!! I built some 6 1/2 in two ways that centered on piano,female vocals.(hardest to get right!).I achieved it.audiophile friends said"too much!too much info!!" I wanted to hear her sweat while she sang! Herb,your right when describing audiofiles that want everything neat and tidy! Music is never like that live!

It's good to hear from Herb Reichert again, Steve. I always learn something(s) from your informal conversations.

Accuracy isn't about being a detective and investigating what's in the recording. Accuracy is about pulling more detail out of the music because it sounds better. Isn't it? Steve, excellent discussion!

Excellent discussion. Herb hits on the essential essence of it. The reproduction of low level signals. This is where the emotion lives. The room ambiance. The harmonics. The reverberation. The illusion of a natural sound. There are so many ways to kill this information. Cross overs. Inefficient speakers. Excessive feed back. Resistors. Opamps. Filters. Transformers. Complicated circuits. Crappy resistor volume control. Poor power supplies. The best systems are minimalist with excellent amplification devices. Triodes come to mind. High efficiency speakers with high quality first order crossovers or maybe no crossover. They may not measure well, but they will sound awesome.

Steve I may be all alone here but I am finding your latest background screens (green screen ?) to be so distracting that I can’t focus on the review. You did have a great one today, and Herb is always fascinating. Thanks for a great interview one of your best

@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac

4 жыл бұрын

Right Fred, there's one set of interviews coming with the background, but after that I'll be all natural.

@gordonm6128

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah it was doing quite a number with your hair lol! Good interview though!

@trainsplanes6517

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I kept looking in the sky for the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels doing a flyby!

@fredkinneary7829

4 жыл бұрын

trains planes Glad to see I wasn’t alone

@stephensmith3111

4 жыл бұрын

@@trainsplanes6517 I've seen the Blue Angels twice (first time as a boy back in the 1960s when they were flying Grumman F-11 Tigers) as well as the current McDonald Douglas F/A-18 Hornets. The last time that I didn't was at an air show in Lincoln, Nebraska when the demonstration was canceled because of smoke blowing up from Kansas (mostly) from farmers burning of the stubble in their fields before spring plowing/planting in the time honored method (if you've been doing something the same way for 30 years, you're probably doing it wrong . . . but not always, viva McIntosh MC275). You need to have clear (accurate) lines of sight, especially when doing high speed convergent maneuvers. I also saw the Thunderbirds (General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcons, a.k.a. Vipers) once in the late 1980s. Jets are cool.

Yes I miss Herb. Great Zoom meeting, very informative. Thank you!

Hi Steve, It's always a treat seeing herb talk! This guy relates to folks and has so many stories he could hold a captive audience talking about anything! Keep it up! Thank you herb and steve !

love this guys... give me passion... give me messy... give me emotion and musicality! 🚀🚀🛸🛸

I think an accurate system is one that has no obviously detectable additions or subtractions, gets out of the way of the music and just sounds natural. An over-rich system is adding colorations at some frequencies that mask low level detail or ambience. Neither is a thin or dry clinical sound accurate that has been stripped to the bone, with no warmth. An accurate system acts like a chamealeon and just seems to change with the recording and venue. An accurate system cannot make a bad recording sound good though - a bad recording should sound bad. If your system makes everything sound OK then it probably isn't accurate and will not shine on great recordings but will be easier to live with on the whole.

@matthewbarrow3727

4 жыл бұрын

I used to think the same about bad recordings versus good recordings. However, I am no longer sure what a bad recording really is. I listen to pop music, so a bad recording would be when the recording or mixing engineers didn't do their jobs right. I used to have Martin Logan SL3 speakers. Some tracks felt that the vocals seemed to be in a recording booth, and separated from the rest of the music. Some tracks, which have a lot of reverb (ie. big hall), might become overwhelming, in its interaction with the room. I used to think that they were bad recordings. I now have Legacy Audio Aeris speakers with Wavelet room correction. All of my LPs now sound great. The only one that doesn't is an Oscar Peterson LP from about 1955. I can certainly hear the difference in the sound stage from one producer to another. However, they all sound good. I do know that there is a technique called LoFi, where they use low quality input recordings, which just don't sound good. In this case, it didn't sound good to me, but that was what the producer wanted.

Loved......."I don't understand accuracy, it makes no sense to me". Me neither! It sounds good or it doesn't. Loved even more....."Measurements can tell you the difference between a bad speaker and a good speaker but only listening will tell you the difference between a good speaker and a great speaker".

@presidentpotato222

4 жыл бұрын

Michael Rubey the line you loved even more is unbelievably great ..

Herb is onto something here about the air and top end with class-d vs class-a. I also several times heard many recordings with class-d equipment where all the reverb, aesthetics and high frequency bells totally got censored away and replaced with nothing making the experience cold/weird/unsettling. You can hear it in a small degree with Allan Taylors "color to the moon" On a normal system you only hear the bell in the the first 5-10 seconds. But with top class-a watt gear, you hear the bell throughout the entire song very clearly. It is a weird thing.

@sakusaaristo191

4 жыл бұрын

Hmmm, not sure about that as (at least) I can hear that bell ringing throughout the song with my H/K 630 and Pioneer CS-E900 speakers (both in very good condition as they've been thoroughly serviced, re-capped, etc). So I'm quite sure that there are many other non-class A setups too that can do that.

@lloll69

4 жыл бұрын

Yup... Sometimes you hear is what u hear.. I had many many "arguments" about this. Stage blah blah..punch blah blah.class d different class a. This and that.. Art and herb is a different listener for instance.. Art dont bother about placement as much as Herb more of a tone saturation guy.. Herb is more about completeness of music emotions.. Grandeur and stage.. That's why he is one of my favorite reviewer . Completeness. I love Steve for being goofy Steve and witty steve

I don't claim to be an expert on the high end industry or electronics or speaker design. But I do appreciate precision in talking about things, and I've always found that if people try to use clear and mutually understood terms a lot of seemingly intractable arguments disappear. That said, the fact that absolute accuracy is impossible does not mean it should not be a goal, since like Zeno's paradox, while we may never reach it, we can always get closer. And I think _closer_ is what we really value as people who critically appreciate reproduced music. But we may not always understand each other when we talk about it. There are a number of different aural cues that humans can use to identify a sound. These cues are more fundamental than, and in combinations produce audiophile perceptions like "sound stage", "precise placement of instrument images", "image depth", "space between instruments", etc. There are limits, in terms of cost, design skill and knowledge, and the physics of both the equipment and the listening environment that prevent a design from supplying all the necessary cues project a perfectly accurate reproduction of any, let alone all, original musical events. This is why different and equally "good" designs for electronics or loudspeakers can sound different. One design was using a different balance or even a few other kinds of aural cues than the other. In that case, it doesn't make sense to ask which is "right", except as a matter of your particular preference for, or habit of attending to the particular cues that a design emphasizes. But a design that is not good, is one that produces too few cues or a balance of cues so skewed that most people recognize that the perception of sound it produces is simply wrong...it is too inaccurate to be worth the money, time and effort. As for Steve's question about the source of that ultimately unreachable goal of "accuracy," it's been part of critical high end or high fidelity journalism from the very beginning: "Audio actually used to have a goal: perfect reproduction of the sound of real music performed in a real space. That was found difficult to achieve, and it was abandoned when most music lovers, who almost never heard anything except amplified music anyway, forgot what "the real thing" had sounded like. Today, "good" sound is whatever one likes...fidelity is irrelevant to music. Since the only measure of sound quality is that the listener likes it, that has pretty well put an end to audio advancement, because different people rarely agree about sound quality. [...] Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [...] For the record: I never, ever claimed that measurements don't matter. What I said (and very often, at that) was, they don't always tell the whole story. Not quite the same thing." ---J. Gordon Holt, the founding father of Stereophile magazine and high end audio journalism (2007) www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/1107awsi/

Sack "accuracy" I audition stuff and my only criteria is if I like it.

These backgrounds are hilarious... I couldn’t stop cracking up. But these conversations are REAL GOLD !

Great to hear more of the Yiddish vocabulary getting into the audiophile world: Herb’s use of Mishegoss (noun) is genius. Perhaps we need to expand the dictionary. May I suggest... Schlep - the exact distance to your nearest bricks and mortar dealer Ov vey - The exclamation made by an audiophile on hearing someone claim their AV receiver sounds great in stereo Tchotchke - worthless but sentimental peripherals that make no difference to sound quality Zaide - someone who still has vintage gear they bought in the 70s Bissel - incremental gains that are actually just different, not better Kibbitz - the cause of bad sounds at audio shows Schikse - a DAC in a tube-based system Gornischt - the ultimate black background Mishegoss - the debate between the merits of Class A/B and Class D Tsuris - audible noise Nu - leave your thoughts in the comments section Shmendrik - someone who buys retail Mensch - a dealer with a genuine discount Plats - someone who is looking for accuracy Meshuggeneh - use of cables as tone controls Sei gesund everbody

@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac

4 жыл бұрын

Good ones

@joshua43214

4 жыл бұрын

Had to laugh at schikse :) You forgot schmatta: Stuff you get from Best Buy

@dq1043

4 жыл бұрын

Andrew Morgan Leonard Nimoy would have agreed....

@keithwiebe1787

4 жыл бұрын

Mennonites have a sort of "Yiddish" sounds too. Comes from hi or lo German from the old country. Believe it or not.

Steve and Herb two sensible audiophiles and reviewers

Great discussion but better for me because it provided a picture of Herb Reichert's Altec Lansings which are allegedly housed in red refrigerators. My source for this is Herb's 1999 review of the Spendor SP 1/2s for Listener magazine (Steve Guttenberg also had a review in that issue.) That review is my all-time favorite piece of audio writing. Mr. Reichert, as Herbie the minibus driver might say, you, Sir, are "Coolacious". BTW, I am the owner of Spendor BC1s and found out after a move and to my great dismay that your take on the Spendors performing much better in a small or medium-sized room was spot on (sob).

for a time I thought that Steve was not the typical stuffy audiophile. The more I watch, though, the more it becomes clear that he is part of the club. The most annoying part of it is that he never addresses any of his fundamental assumptions. "It's more like being there," he says. This is an assumption that underpins a lot of his videos and yet he never defends it. Why should the purpose of a system be to replicate some (mythical) live experience? Steve seems to base his life around this, yet he doesn't really examine it. At the very least he could admit that his tenets for audiophilia are really just grounded in his own taste, but I guess you get kicked out of the club if you admit that.

@bigjay1970

4 жыл бұрын

So true! Who always has to be there. I wasn't there when they were making Michael Jackson's Thriller album but it's still great!🤪🤯🤓 And no one else was there either because it was recorded in a studio!🤪🤯

It was a pleasure meeting Herb at CanJam a few months ago.

I could listen to Herb all day, he’s the Man , Thanks for this. 😎

At 3:25 HR says "the best hifi's are the ones that find it", then SG says "an less accurate speaker won't revel as much..." Recent speaker reviews talk about speakers 'coming alive' with better electronics, so which part of the rig is most responsible for revealing what is in the recording? Thoughts? On my desk there is a jar full of pens...1.4mm bold tip, 1.00mm medium tip, fine and xtra fine tip. There are ball point, felt tip, and rolling ball gel tip. They all look and feel different, but none of them change the content of the written word.

I used Audio Note gear because I like to listen to choirs and hear each singer as clearly as I can in a church, string sections like they are in the concert hall. I live in London and I genuinely can experience music live, be home in 45mins, put the CD and its the same! LOL

Thanks Steve, it was awesome to meet Herb (also my father's name). What a wonderful life - hifi in Brooklyn.

Excellent episode. Big thanks to both of you and I dig the virtual background. The way I judge a system... If listening to my favorite music on a particular system makes me feel the urge to get up and dance, tap my toes to the beat or move to the music in any way, it's a good system. Accuracy is great but if I'm not feeling it, what's the point?

Accuracy is the pinnacle of subjectivity.

Interesting to listen to Steve and Herb share their thoughts. As for me, I learned a long time ago that my journey, no matter what particular one it may be at the moment, is my journey, and mine alone. That doesn't mean that no one may be along, but that just means they are experiencing that journey in their own way. It's personal. And no two are exactly alike. So I'll enjoy my journey my way, and I'll let you enjoy your journey in your way.

I just found your channel and I LOVE your content. Very informative

@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!!

Atkinson quote is elegant. Fit to purpose is a phrase that helps me reframe conversations around preference. A little bluetooth device may not give me what I want from a speaker but my farmer and woodworker family and friends like the functionality. I'd have loved those when I was 19, bring it to the garage, to the lake, so fun. I would never speak of my gear as better with them, it is immature and of no benefit to anyone. When I do mention my gear I welcome visitors and we have fun. That's sufficient for me. Now, I am trying to resist that pricey (for me) Audioquest power cable for my Rogue Sphinx V3. More Steve and Herb please.

Very worthwhile discussion.

Strictly speaking of Classical music and Jazz, accuracy is (in my mind..) achieved when, a violin _sounds_ like a violin, an oboe like an oboe and a piano ...you guessed it, like a piano. In a darkened room, I listen to a saxophone player. Can I get fooled to believe the sax player is there in the room? _That_ is accuracy IMHO. ...... Good day Herb! Great to see and hear you here. I hope we see more of you in Steve's channel.

@gurdyman1

4 жыл бұрын

How do you know if the violin was a Stradivari, Steiner, Guarnieri, Amati, Hopf or Suzuki? They all sound different. Judging accuracy without knowing the instrument is simply chasing one's tail.

@m.9243

4 жыл бұрын

@@gurdyman1 Fair question! Not being gifted with playing a violin, I wouldn't even know that, even if I heard the performance in a concert hall, (unless of course it's pointed out to me). I can usually tell if it's a modern instrument or a period one but, that's about it. So, as long as the sound I get to hear convinces me _it is a violin_ that for me is an accurate reproduction of a violin Thanks for the response and for challenging my brain though. : -)

I think of accuracy in music, is similar to accuracy from a photograph. There’s a lot you can do to both. They both look and sound different to each individual.

Did I just drop acid? Am I halucinating when I see Steve? I think I'm peaking! Oh wait! Herb looks normal. Oh no Steve's back! What the hell is happening to me????

As a guy who lived (survived?) 8-track tapes, I know what INaccurate sound is like. I relate to Herb’s “electrons bouncing off the church wall” concept of micro-information. That’s a plea for even greater accuracy, not less. But there’s little doubt that intense musical enjoyment can be had with today’s mid-fi, arguably less accurate systems. So at the point where my budget hits accuracy achievement, I turn into a subjectivist.

Most recordings are done dry, and added effects later. That is why a recording done under wet conditions often are more lifelike, because it sounds more natural. A live recording in a grand hall where some of the reverbs there at in the recording will sound more natural than artificially added reverbs in post. But you must add some reverb to add the illusion of natural sound. That is why a recording of a acoustic concert sounds so good, because some of the natural reverbs are still in there, because most instruments is recorded wet. Maybe only a solo instrument has close microphone in those circumstances.

Three thumbs up for these lasts discussions about sound fidelity and accuracy. Thanks a lot :)

Great quote at the end, "Measurements can tell the difference between a bad speaker and a good speaker, but only listening can tell us the difference between a good speaker(amp) and a great speaker(amp)." Specs of an amp or speaker can tell you if they are at least in the 'good' category, but ultimately we are all in this hobby to 'listen' so if your ears aren't happy, specs don't mean a thing. And perfect specs won't tell you that your ears will be happy either. Sometimes I think our ears like a little coloration here and there. And as we age and our hearing changes, so might our taste in what we find pleasing to them.

Great stuff guys thanks .

the duo steve guttenberg and Herb Reichert... the pinnacle of audio discussion turned to poetry... Great video

Thank-you Steve and Herb Herbert. Great thought provoking discussion. At this point in my learning journey I'm thinking very low to full volume absolute waveform phase accuracy over an extended frequency bandwidth seems to be the goal. As suggested during the discussion, minimizing "subtractive distortion" AKA maintaining the nuance "absolute phase purity" of a waveform seems to be the challenge for audio designers. I also agree that vintage 70's / 80's class A amps still seem impressively good at doing this.

Wow! How insightful...conversations like this justify KZread. Thanks Steve/Frank.

Accuracy is impossible. If you define “accurate” as hearing the recording the way the artist and producer intended, then the only way to be accurate is if you had the exact equipment and room setup as they did in the mixing studio. The best you can do is hope for accuracy.

@audiofun999

4 жыл бұрын

Luis Puncel and their ears and brains

@JohnLnyc

4 жыл бұрын

You can almost never know what the artist and producer “intended.” You are heading down a wormhole.

@rotorfix

4 жыл бұрын

It may not be possible in terms of what the artist heard or intended, but with the right gear, one can get very close to an accurate rendering of what's actually in the source/record. The contention comes from the fact that most-accurate is not always most pleasing.

@JohnLnyc

4 жыл бұрын

rotorfix yes I agree. I recall way back when, so called boom and sizzle speakers with exaggerated highs and lows. Very impressive at first hearing but with little balance..mid range became incredibly fatiguing. Some recordings are poorly mixed to same effect through your balanced home speakers. Also rarely mentioned are timbre and sonic signature. The sound of a bow across a violin or cello etc palpable percussion the various layers in a voice. An immediacy arealness the recording through your system.

@oysteinsoreide4323

4 жыл бұрын

it is accurate enough if acoustic instruments sounds like you are in the room with the instrument being played.

My view of accuracy: When I listen to a system, and the system is engaging, that to me is “accurate”. By this I mean the system is able to reproduce what I would call the “soul of the music”. I find it especially clear when I listen to music I had not listened to before or have historically not liked, and it draws me in and I can’t stop listening. I would call this “ability to connect me to the music” rather than “accurate” which is ill defined. So my practical advice to people is to find a system and setup (including room setup) that is pretty good and then be driven by what makes the system more engaging, more fun to listen to. That to me is “accurate”.

@manardh7387

4 жыл бұрын

I have said similar many times.

I *DO* miss Herb! And thanks to Herb, I now love Mel Tormé's tidal wave of tone!

Your messy background reminds me of mine. I like it. Fake backgrounds look like fake backgrounds.

More with Herb please. Make it a regular segment if possible..

I’m neither for nor against “accuracy”, whatever that might be...but I do love the idea of my system actually portraying what the recording artist wanted the world to hear when they were making the record...just a thought

I understand people that want it more correct/accurate because a lot of tube sound is really flabby/inaccurate/closed in/limited. A good clock and good parts and good power fixes that. It's almost impossible to get a good clock function on tube gear, whereas with transistor it's almost impossible to get good parts. (transistor usually has better clock control) But both can sound good at the top level and give the impression of having all the sound aspects at a very high level. (once you have a really good clock, the music gets more solid and the harshness dissapears and the timing get's insanely good)

Thank you for 86ing the green screen. Isn’t HR the best? Thanks for having him on, Steve!

Herb is so much cooler than we are!!!

"The energy of atmosphere"...yeah! that's the stuff that differentiates the great from the good. Great way to put it.

Bleedthrough, did someone say early Zeppelin...

Our own ears can fool us into things that aren't there. I remember listening to some recording (can probably be found somewhere on the net) where they were experimenting with test tones and it was easy to make a sound seem like it was only in the right channel when in reality it came from the left channel.

Why can't we have BOTH speakers that sound good AND measure well?

Funny how audiophiles want accurate, but none of them want studio monitors in the system, which is what they used to make the music.

@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac

5 ай бұрын

Right, but if all studio monitors are accurate, why don't they all sound exactly the same?

@Bigirondoug

5 ай бұрын

You would have to purchase whatever monitor they used to produce each record to hear accurately what the musicians and producers heard, lol Monitor companies would love this.@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac

Always good to hear you and Herb chewing the fat, as it were. In fact, I enjoy all of the bull sessions you have with other viewers, but Herb’s in a class by himself.

Wow. Learning has never been so much fun. Thanks!

I think most people don't trust their own ability to judge the quality of sound so they want the objectivity of "accuracy" to have something to trust.

Idc so much about accuracy, rather I like having different flavors. But I care a great deal about revealing power, clarity.

We have a very serious disease, and there is no cure in sight.The reality of being a true audiophile is that this is as good as it gets. I feel like I am stuck between yesterday and tomorrow, everyday. Hope that makes sense.

Great interview. I was never really a true audiophile but am perusing the best sound for me ( on a budget). I have to agree that specs only get you part way there and listening does the rest. I recall articles in Stereophile magazine where they would first give you the specs then the listening impressions. Often they didn’t seem to relate. I think our brains have this uncanny ability to focus on different aspects of the music. To zero in on some things and filter out others. Sort of like how a good car mechanic can identify a bad lifter in an engine just by listening to the cacophony of noise coming from it. No sound analyzer can do that as far as I know.

Steve, this video makes you look like you have flowing hair! LOL

Tidiness? I like things tidy because untidiness is a distraction (some people are better at tuning this out than others - I'm not one of them). So when there is a lot of distorted crap coming off a LP due to scratches or wear then it distracts me from the music. Except, if the vinyl front end is good enough, the music is so vivid (full of details and with plenty of impact) then the threshold for the distortion spoiling it is way higher. Digital gives a false sense of tidy - it all sounds very clean but lots may be missing, or digital distortion is making things sound hard, or dry or whatever - harder to spot than a scratch on a LP or hiss on a tape as it's there all the time and changes the character of the sound rather than intruding noticeably. Reality check - last night I (kind of by accident) watched Prince performing on KZread with a wire from the headphone output on my TV to my hi-fi. The sound was ok but not a match for my hi-fi front ends. But...seeing Prince perform live, his stage antics and facial expressions...totally brought it to life and made me interact on a very emotional level with the music. And that's from someone who doesn't really like Prince's music that much. Is that missing detail somehow analogous to what you get from seeing a performer, sort of filling in the gaps?

Hah! I don't suppose you'd appreciate it if I hit the thumbs up twice - but a particularly enjoyable discussion gentlemen, thank you. "Accuracy" seems a funny term when artifice is a big part of most recording practice, but I certainly value those spatial cues and detailed textures highly.

Accuracy is what I like.

I like the words “transparency” or “revealing” instead of “accuracy.”

@mkwilson38

4 жыл бұрын

John Lower , OK..... Since we do not know each other, I do not get your context or comedy here. Did you watch the vid?

Great info with the special effects of Dr Who in 1966! Have Herb on more, Steve!

Great discussion. To me, a recorded / reproduced performance is somewhat like the relationship between acting and cinematography. The performance is an art and the recording is an art. The playback of either is an art/technology and what we hear is the entire performance. It takes it all. Electric guitar players play the amp and the guitar. Accuracy to me is not the game, what is the game is the synergistic result that hits your ears. Pass me another beer.

Good morning Steve and Herb, first things first, great LSD video production! All kidding aside, another great informative video.

I like how Steve Force projected himself into some alleyway in the Bronx.

Hey, Steve! Giving you two thumbs up but when I tap thumbs up twice for you it disappears. Maybe that's what everyone is doing.

This is a great discussion by two relatively unpretentious audio experts. As a recording engineer, I would love to be making recordings for people like them. Unfortunately most people are hearing music through white plastic things with or without wires stuck sloppily in their ears. This is what makes high levels of compression and limiting necessary. One advantage I have is doing my critical listening through the same amp and speaker setup for years. I can't imagine trying to make judgments about sound when you're listening through a different system every week. I'm sure these gentlemen enjoy their work but I couldn't comfortably judge anything that way. If I were to do that job, I couldn't give grades it would just be pass fail.

One of your top ten best videos.

@gurdyman1

4 жыл бұрын

At least the audio part was great. The video part gave me a headache.

Forgive an old calibration tech. Accuracy only has a place if there’s a standard. I’ve never heard of any audiophile standards at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures in Paris. On top of that our ears do not have a linear frequency response. It is generally agreed that a 10db gain represents a doubling of loudness, but this is not consistent from 20hz to 20Khz. Each of our ears have different frequency responses. Which is right? Which is wrong? Both you and Herb could be at the same session and yet not hear the music the same way. I guess I’m in Camp Toe Tap. If it sounds good it is good.

Those Class A power amps also make great space heaters.

@johnlebeau5471

4 жыл бұрын

I have a pair of the first amp they showed. They are lousy space heaters.

@PanAmStyle

4 жыл бұрын

My 2 watt DECware class A SET does a lousy job of hearing spaces

Some thoughts on accuracy: Accuracy may be hard to define, but you can learn to know it when you hear it. Accuracy and resolution are not the same. The opposite of accuracy is distortion. When you hear a system that initially sounds good but eventually starts to grate, that is euphonic distortion revealed. Regarding playback distortion and average recordings: Two wrongs doesn't make a right.

@robrickels3788

4 жыл бұрын

listen, listen, listen... You can hear the difference.

@robrickels3788

4 жыл бұрын

Just keep in mind that distortion can be reproduced accurately.

I could listen to you 2 talk audio all day! I think accuracy is subjective. To me accuracy means more detailed, but it comes with a trade off - it loses its spaciousness.

Nonlinear response to low level signals can be a source of "subtractive distortion." Conversely, compression can be a source of what I will call "additive distortion." Many people prefer additive distortion. It is one reason some like very low power tube amplifiers that "soft clip" or compress the loud parts of the signal.

I thought your explanation of the difference between vinyl and digital nailed it (11:00 min mark).

The thing is like most terms in this hobby accuracy is not a well defined thing. The term implies something that can be quantified but there are so many aspects of the sound with respect to the original recording that scads of different aspects could be in the listeners mind when talking about it. Frequency balance, imaging, dynamic range and a linear relationship of recorded dynamics v.s. actualized dynamics, phase relationships, damping, sense of the room... So what is accuracy? Depends I guess. In the end since we don't have access to the original performance (if a real performance even exists) sometimes a better target is a plausible representation of an event.

Great discussion keep it up Steve I’m not going anywhere

This debate has been going on forever, I realized over the last 60yrs of building systems there still no "prefect system" but what your happy with and being happy with the recording your listening to As my dad used to say shit in-shit out how many recordings have we heard that sounded bad on every media type? as for real audiophiles we're a dying breed,just like how many people still play 78s? who built a kit or anything in the last 5 yrs? do a survey of subs to see what ages come up,or maybe you are a old salesman to the end because you hearing hasn't got better..just saying..my 1 cent worth

You don't have to stop virtual background . You only need to use green screen maybe or something to have a solid color in the background so software can find the edges of your body better.

Steve could you turn up the volume please. It's pretty quiet. Anyway thanks for yours discussion!

Sometimes when I step back and look at our hobby and tribe I think how crazy this all is. I say this with a smile and a chuckle and wouldn’t change a thing about this quirky rewarding journey.

It's interesting that hi-fi is such a great personal adventure but also it can be frustrating for some simply because it is compromised by so many factors within, with no true set standards as such, so information, accuracy, soundstage, tone and then different personal preference (and hearing) of the artists, music producers and listeners, not to mention budgets all play their part. Nowadays we are spoilt by such a wide diversity music and equipment available, but all different ranging from great to poor. Also music production is often compromised with so much over compressed, poorly mixed and recorded material which is sad really as it affects how we listen and engage and need to select and modify our equipment. My general priority is to try and find the best balance and compromise. I.e. An affordable system that can play and present all types and qualities of music in an a relatively neutral (but musical) pleasurable dynamic and engaging way. So totally accuracy in a system would render some recordings unlistenable so I will happily accept some level of compromise. But great when good recordings are found...which in 2020 should not be the exception but the norm..ho hum