I've got all day to listen to Coleman Hughes.

Does anybody advocate for a right of return for all the Middle Eastern Jews who got kicked out of Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and so forth?

@jimr5855

2 ай бұрын

dont't forget much of Europe.

@christoffel840

2 ай бұрын

Those people have no interest in going back and are living in a country with much more opportunity and a higher standard of living. A ton of them left voluntarily. This is not a gotcha. If those Jews were a stateless people living under a brutal occupation by people who considered them to be subhuman, I would definitely advocate for them to have a right to return.

@worsethanjoerogan8061

2 ай бұрын

​@christoffel840 Right, but if Jews who became refugees from Arab countries can move on and make peace with those Arab countries who ethnically cleansed them, why can't Palestinians accept something similar? Why insist on a right of return to Israel instead of accepting a Palestinian state or moving to one of the many Arab countries? It seems especially unreasonable to expect a right of return when it was the Arab/Palestinians who started the 1948 war. Why should they have the right to return to state they attempted to destroy?

@christoffel840

2 ай бұрын

@@worsethanjoerogan8061I don’t think it is at all clear that the 1948 war was started by the Arabs. Establishing a Jewish ethnostate on Palestinian land, accompanied by massive ethnic cleansing, destruction of villages, and massacres of Palestinians was an extreme provocation. The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank have recognized Israel and given up on armed struggle. They are occupied by the IDF to this day and there was a massive expansion of settlements just in the last month. I don’t really see how anyone can make the argument that Palestinians could simply choose to make nice with Israel and get everything they wanted. Asking an entire nation of people to just immigrate to other countries is an absurd idea. Why don’t the Israelis leave?

@anluirodriguezcarreon998

2 ай бұрын

What a bad faith argument and a false analogy phalacy, you should read about the "one million plan", and all the zionists efforts that were carried out on those countries to make jews to migrate to Israel, including the false flag terrorist in Iraq and Egypt (Prof Avi Schalim has extensively documented this)

Coleman remains one our clearest thinking intellectuals. Bravo

@safarit678

Ай бұрын

He's a morons idea of a smart guy.

@ragnong9680

Ай бұрын

It's a shame he's landed on the complete wrong opinion. Other than this, I'm a huge fan.

@perkyy2709

Ай бұрын

@@ragnong9680 lol, definitely going with Coleman on this one boss.

@safarit678

Ай бұрын

@@ragnong9680 What exactly are you a fan of? Genuinely asking. I'm fascinated by the fact that I know of him.

@ragnong9680

Ай бұрын

@@safarit678 I think he's great on race, free speech, consciousness, AI, you name it and he's fascinating to listen to. But I was hearing to him on another podcast, and he just blatantly says he hasn't seen evidence that the aid trucks have decreased. He's a very reasonable person, but he's operating from a lack of knowledge on this topic, and his refusal to debate sensible voices like Dave Smith on this issue is frustrating. P.S.: There's plenty of evidence the aid trucks have decreased from around 500 before the war to about 150 today.

As a non-American, I sympathise with Coleman's view a lot more. Why? Because he's trying to understand both sides in a way most Americans never try to. Most Americans just stop at labelling a "good guy" and a "bad guy," and the world doesn't work that way. Like the French say: "We have no friends, we only have interests. " There might never be justice for the Palestinians, but there will only be peace based on mutual interests.

@morenitomoreno1282

2 ай бұрын

Only one side is occupying the other and has been able to do so for decades thanks to the support and protection from the US government. That's like saying we need to understand both sides when talking about the British occupation of Ireland.

@yoelsyhutchinson4377

2 ай бұрын

There is not both sides on genocide,

@taboundjemak

2 ай бұрын

You have racial bias.

@ayoub8109

2 ай бұрын

​@@morenitomoreno1282 Coleman just repeat zionists talking points he is playing safe doesn't want to get canceled

@morenitomoreno1282

2 ай бұрын

@@ayoub8109 i don't think he fears being cancelled. He's a zionist. Thats all.

Finns gave up land after Soviet -Finland war and made peace with Stalin (after almost beating the red army) and look at them now... it's one of the most successful and military advanced countries in Europe... Palestine should accept the reality, make peace with Israel and move on building there own nation state

@garybassin4527

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely good advice.

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

Yes. As Ukraine should have two years ago.

@rewertzyy1416

2 ай бұрын

@@FaerieSidheNo

@dr.virtuoso

2 ай бұрын

i think germany should get back kalinigrad, and Finland should get back the 10% land that it lost. BTW finland joined the axis invasion of soviet union to get back their land.

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

​@@dr.virtuoso The shuffling back and forth would never end. It's the same reason "squatter's rights" has a legitimate (but extremely limited!) purpose. You have to know where to draw the line.

I would have added: What motivates Netanyahu's actions to thwart Palestinian unity or a 2-state solution? Most Israelis, even on the right, are not against Palestinian statehood in principle. The fear Israelis have of of a 2-state solution is about what would happen next, once that new Palestinian state is taken over by a militant Islamic government as it most likely would be. In other words, for Israelis, it boils down to security and trust. Until Israelis can trust Palestinians to end their hostility, they don't want to give the Palestinians even more ability to attack and harm them.

2 ай бұрын

@@tomac100 Wrong. Although that sounds like it should make sense, that's only bc you don't understand Israeli politics. But without even getting deep into that, I will concede the fact that today, most Israelis are very afraid of what a Palestinian state will bring, and therefore are voting for parties that will actively work against it (such as Likud). But again - it's not the idea of Palestinian statehood itself that Israelis are against - it's the knowledge that any Palestinian state will most likely become a base of fundamentalist Islamic violent hostility and terror against Israel, (like what happened with Gaza), and they view that threat as unnaceptable. In other words, if they trusted the Palestinians to be peaceful, the entire Israeli attitude toward Palestinian Statehood would be different.

2 ай бұрын

@@tomac100 It does address your point. To Israelis, what they care about most is their own security. Right now, their view is that Palestinian Statehood will not bring peace - it will bring violence and death to Israelis. So when they go to the polls, who do they vote for? They vote for the hawkish, right wing parties like Likud. The nature of Israeli politics forces Likud to form a coaliton government, and they naturally ally with the religious and settler parties - and that means giving them concessions which include increased building permits in the settlements. But that doesn't mean that the settlements are important to most Israelis. Speak to the average Israeli - they would happily dismantle settlements in exchange for true peace and security (proof: they did it to make peace with Egypt).

@worsethanjoerogan8061

2 ай бұрын

It's really both reasons. Some Israelis do want to annex the West Bank into proper Israel. Security is also a very valid concern. If I lived there I wouldn't want Hamas up on the high ground with rockets and missiles.

@luvitluvitbaby

2 ай бұрын

The reason why you would get a radical Islamic group elected in Palestine is because of the brutal past. The more brutality inflicted the more radical the group.

@marial8415

Ай бұрын

How could they ever trust the Palestinians. I am not Jewish and I would never trust them, you only have to see the way they are in the West.

Coleman is absolutely right in saying the Palestinians have always chosen the destruction of Israel over having their own state - this is the crux of the problem.

@Tesla_Death_Ray

Ай бұрын

Also Israel has zero interest in a Palestinian state.

@hraeta2

Ай бұрын

@@Tesla_Death_Ray should they have an interest in a Palestinian state? Israel really just wants to be left alone.

@jittmet7766

Ай бұрын

For them it's not a problem. Why would it be? Every time they kill the West throws money at them and now they're getting statehood.

@cryptocoin5318

Ай бұрын

@@Tesla_Death_Ray dude, they been trowing rockets at them.... all they focus is what their religious scripture tells them... to kill jews. it has nothing to do with land.

@person_108

14 күн бұрын

@@hraeta2 By "left alone" you mean continually expanding its borders?

1967 was a war of Arab aggression led by Nasser, the dictator of Egypt. The land Israel captured in 1967 was not due to an expansionist war it started, rather the land captured was won in a war intended to eradicate it.

@desmondirwin200

2 ай бұрын

Stealing land even in war time in 1967 was illegal no ifs no buts

@mrwopsle

2 ай бұрын

@@desmondirwin200 Losing a war you started will have consequences.

@desmondirwin200

2 ай бұрын

@@mrwopsle oh so when the Russians defeated Germany in WW2 they should of confiscated the land, I suppose you agree that Ukraine losing territory is the consequences of war

@laylaali5977

2 ай бұрын

No it wasn’t it was a Israeli fascist terrorist government expansionism

@mrwopsle

2 ай бұрын

@@desmondirwin200 don't be silly. But the reality is that Hamas and just about every Palestinian government has sworn to eradicate the "Zionist entity." They can't hardly bring themselves, some of them, to say Israel. The Palestinian people have been very poorly served by their kleptocratic leadership that has not leveled with them. Israel exists and will continue to exist. Make peace as defeated people have to and build your civilization instead of building tunnels.

So interesting to observe the emotional behaviour of the conventionalists. While both are very respectful towards each other, don’t interrupt and are trying to listen very carefully with a sincere desire to understand the point of the other, Colman exposes an exceptional talent of composure, combined of rare ability not to raise his voice and neither speaking too emotionally, or even a slight shade of irritation with the opposite point of view. I’ll so try to learn it from Colman! Though know that for me it’s going to be hard. So far I’m more like Robert in this sense.

@guadronlorena5796

Ай бұрын

@anyakirby2014 I totally agree with your comment about Colman

@Orf

Ай бұрын

49:45 jfc. Building roads through WB. And checkpoints

Great convo between Robert and Coleman, appreciated the civil nature of their discourse. I tend to side with Coleman's view on this particular topic and I think Robert does a great job of trying to share the Palestinian viewpoint but ultimately fails to grasp the religious nature of the Palestinian refusal. He's looking at this from a Western non-religious viewpoint and that's just not how ME's think, particularly Palestinians.

It's painful to watch Robert Wright pretend he didn't hear Coleman's rebuttals and instead continue to repeat himself.

@chessandfootball5544

Ай бұрын

Agree He’s almost unwatchable when he rattles all these info he has to support Palestine and suddenly he’s ignorant of the other side argument

@lancehilt7536

Ай бұрын

What’s painful for me to watch is how many fall for Hughes ignorant distortions of history.

@Shellybelly778

Ай бұрын

​@@lancehilt7536What exactly did Coleman distort?

@lancehilt7536

Ай бұрын

His statement that the right of return is a sacred value to the Palestinians is a fabrication. I previously posted a link to an article stating that 2/3 of the citizens of Gaza were willing to relinquish ROR for a state. Hughes fabricates whatever position he wishes to impute to the Palestinians without doing a modicum of research on what has been proposed.

@nealorr5086

Ай бұрын

@@lancehilt7536 "2/3 of the citizens of Gaza were willing to relinquish ROR for a state." So the people who murdered 800 civilians during a cease fire are going to honor that? Tell me your IQ is 84 without saying, "My IQ is 84".

one constant in this debate is one person completely fails to acknowledge the religious motivations of hamas. they dont believe what they say they believe. there's always another explanation. its stunning.

@sholay706

2 ай бұрын

The zionist also have a religious motivation

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

It's infuriating. It's almost demeaning to P's. Refusing to acknowledge that they have their own motivations. Westplaining.

@malvolio01

2 ай бұрын

I hear this so much from the left. They go on and on about land, just babbling away. If that were the case, this would be easily resolved, as the Jews already gave up Jordan, which was originally supposed to be theirs, then the WB and Gaza, which were supposed to be theirs as well. They also gave the Sinai back after being attacked. Clearly, land isn't the issue. They also act like the majority of Gaza isn't radicalized and that Hamas acted on October 7th purely by themselves, with no assistance and support from so-called Gazan civilians. But then, of course, to listen to them, EVERYONE in Gaza is a civilian, as Israel only seems to be attacking and killing civilians, purposely, of course, because... ya know, well, before that Jews killed Christian children and drank their blood. I'm doing everything I can to not just lump all these idi*ts together as Jew-haters simply because all they want to do is ignore facts, evidence and rational argumentation and shout about how evil the world's only Jewish state is. Zero nuance.

@malvolio01

2 ай бұрын

Western liberal splaining, you mean@@FaerieSidhe

@pantethine66

2 ай бұрын

the motivation for Hamas is the Palestinian's self-determination. just like it was for the Jews when they formed the state of Israel.

Funny enough, the Jews were the first people in history to ever offer the Panestinians the opportunity to a state. It's not like the Jews came and occupied a state, the Palestinians never had one, they were always subjects to some empire. What the Jews arrived to and occupied was British empire land.

Bob’s argument started falling apart when he made the argument that Arafat had too much pressure from radicals. Well? Isn’t that the exact Israeli perspective validated?

@cronizle

2 ай бұрын

You think his argumeants were "falling apart?" Can you tell me what even is the argumeant Coleman is even giving here: 1:30:21

@dmolmalowski

2 ай бұрын

>apart when he made the argument that Arafat had too much pressure from radicals. Well? Isn’t that the exact Israeli perspective validated? No moron. It just meant that he really couldnt accept a unjust peace deal, there was zero chance. The israelis simply could have stopped stealing land that didnt belong to them.

@dmolmalowski

2 ай бұрын

No it isn't. Arafat was under pressure to get a fair deal, the Israelis did their best to stop that

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

He was under pressure from the moderates. A peaceful solution is the radically extremist position rejected by the majority.

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

@@dmolmalowski No. You don't start sending sewis cide bmbs in order to get a fair deal. But to reject ANY resolution.

I’m starting to believe the dispute all comes down to intersectionality. One side has more power, therefore the other has no agency and no responsibility for their actions. The side with more power is held to an impossible standard of moral perfection, the other is held to no moral standard whatsoever.

@yanivreif7379

2 ай бұрын

This

@lawsonharrison6927

2 ай бұрын

This is exactly the lens that most of the west sees this conflict. It's very depressing that our academics either will not or cannot speak honestly on it.

@sunnyvegas2778

2 ай бұрын

No, one side uses their power to oppress another side..... This isnt hard

@avengemybreath3084

2 ай бұрын

@@sunnyvegas2778 perfect example thanks! This side = power. This equals “oppressed.” Therefore, anything is justified. All empty labels and black & white thinking.

@irlshrek

2 ай бұрын

Yeah exactly. Postmodernism is another way to describe it. And the marriage of postmodernism, Islam, and Christian nationalism is pretty insane

I must thank Mr Wright for having this deeply engaging and profoundly productive dialog with Mr Hughes. Mr Hughes is unquestionably a genius we haven’t seen since the third decade of the last century. He frames our problems precisely and with such cold passion: we have a problem to solve people. We have an infestation, a pest control issue here. We just need a solution to this problem, a final solution. You can’t reason with roaches. I see many great things for Mr Hughes. He is wonderful!

@redmed10

13 күн бұрын

Final solution? Heard that somewhere before.

Coleman is in a diff class than his counterpart.

@tnndll4294

2 ай бұрын

And here I thought Coleman was a scholar but not a debater, since he's evenly spoken. Maybe I was wrong.

@lau_dhondt

2 ай бұрын

Coleman Hughes is the next Dave Rubin, another disciple of the Bell curve, here to twist himself in all kinds of pretzels to tell you that there shouldn’t be any social programs to make washingtonian lobbyists happy. For this occasion he thought he’d throw a bone to aipac as well. Robert Wright is just a very good journalist.

@DjangoDrango

2 ай бұрын

he has zio balls deep in his throat

@e.b.1115

2 ай бұрын

​@@tnndll4294it surprised me too. His whole presentation is off and he sounds pressured. Wonder how much he's paid...

@JinJiyanAzadii

2 ай бұрын

The watermelons are in denial bc they are guided by lies and hate

thank you, Coleman. very well-articulated!

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

OMG, I've never heard anyone hit the nail the head with such precision. And it went right over Robert's head. He doesn't understand WHY his position isn't the most important.

@CrincReeves

2 ай бұрын

It's amazing how the Jews from Europe who suffered at the hands of the Europeans can run to another country (Palestine) and genocide them. What did the Palestinian have to do with the Holocaust. The Europeans Jew had no tie or superior right to that land. Israel is and has always been an hostile occupier of someone else land.

@rev030974

2 ай бұрын

Coleman is an idiot lol

Coleman Hughes calmly and fairly, takes apart this plums views, it’s a perfect example of someone who lives in an echo chamber against a well read and educated view on the subject 👍👌

@Itsstuff7328

Ай бұрын

This person analyzes history as though he just woke up in 2001, never read a book and doesn't believe any of the stated goals for some kind of kumbaya fantasy where everyone arrives wanting peace and democracy 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

When Jordan conquered the West Bank and Egypt controlled Gaza, why was a Palestinian state not even considered??????

@Mogwai786

Ай бұрын

Ask them, not the Palestinians

@baruchhashem49

Ай бұрын

​@@Mogwai786what? 😂😂😂

@Mogwai786

Ай бұрын

@@baruchhashem49 let me make it simple for you: 🇵🇸 are not responsible for what other arab states do, nor should they suffer blame for their actions. Besides, everyone knows what 🇮🇱 was planning beforehand. Google 'Plan Dalet'.

@d.s.6268

Ай бұрын

@@Mogwai786 Really ? Because there was a push by the "palestinians" back then for a state ? for independence ? Terror attacks against Jordan and Egypt ? Cries of injustice ? Must have been really reallllly silent cries...

Robert is not taking into account the religious aspect. While the Jewish state is largely secular, the Palestinians mostly are hardline Muslims which, according to their beliefs never really be at peace with the Jews.

@Yara-Li

18 күн бұрын

That's not accurate, orthodox Jews are a minority, yet religious and traditional Jews are the majority. The difference is that Islam is inherently a political Ideology, Muslims' core belief is the Uma - their duty on earth is to Islamize and conquer all. Judaism isn't a missionary religion, traditionally conversion is a long meticulous process in which one must express a deep heartfelt desire and belief of being Jewish. This is also something Jews get criticized for, being exclusive as opposed to inclusive. That makes sense given that Judaism was first, and Christians believe they replaced Judaism and so does Islam.

What Coleman is trying to convey to Robert (a bit too gently I think) is that the mindset, social norms, values, attitude towards history and just the general view on life and society is profoundly different from that in the west and this is what westerners just can't understand or wrap their minds about it. They approach this subject from westerners eyes and this is why they don't understand why the conflict continues, or why millions of Arabs are fleeing the middle east to Europe for that matter. The Arabs have a very different view on basic values in life that that people in the west hold most scared and even take for granted. There are some groups in Israel who have similar views but in Israel in general they are considered an extreme fringe group while in the Arab society it is mainstream. and that goes for pretty much all Arab countries not just the Palestinians.

@dmolmalowski

2 ай бұрын

>They approach this subject from westerners eyes People like you are cliches. Just unaware ignoramuses.

@silentiumestaureum1

2 ай бұрын

This is just orientalist BS masquerading as deep knowledge and wisdom. Yeah, millions of Arabs are fleeing the Middle East to Europe because they want better lives for themselves and their children. Such very different view on basic values in life, much A-rab, wow. And before anyone even thinks about it, no, you're not gotcha-ing me by asking me whether I think the West is better than the Middle East. It is. I'm pointing out how stupid it is to say these things about "The Arabs."

@farcenter

2 ай бұрын

This. Agreed

@mcohen1966

2 ай бұрын

Agreed, the brilliant Einat Wilf aptly called this "West-splaining." I appreciate Bob's commitment to extending cognitive empathy for others and their perspectives, but at a certain point it becomes projecting one's personality onto others in a way that is very inaccurate. The US did this in Afghanistan and Iraq with terrible consequences.

@JenZee-oe2no

2 ай бұрын

Coleman understands this isn't over land. It's not about getting the best deal.

What a strange, but very interesting and informative talk. It's oddly like Bob just can't hear Coleman. He thinks attitudes can change, comparing secular attitudes with religious convictions as if there was no difference. I think it's very hard if not impossible for secular people to understand religious conviction.

@yanivreif7379

2 ай бұрын

It’s like he has a religious belief that if people can change, they have to change and if they have to change they can only change for the better.

Robert Wright is off-the-charts naive when it comes to this issue. Reminds me of the saying - “Your mind is so open…your brain falls out’

@d.s.6268

Ай бұрын

Being naive about it is a luxury that only someone who doesn't actually live in Israel can afford.

20:46, Coleman's Theory of the Case leaves Bob in stunned silence. Telling...

@mcohen1966

2 ай бұрын

Would be nice if Bob stopped speaking and stated listening. 80/20 Bob speaking. Why? Wish there was a way to ONLY hear Coleman's comments. Jeez Bob, c'mon man... you can do better.

@kenhiett5266

2 ай бұрын

I don't understand why anyone bothers with this guy. He lost all credibility against Weinstein and here he is again with his unearned nose in the air. A disingenuous pompous a** doesn't deserve the courtesy of a steel-man.

@kenhiett5266

2 ай бұрын

Robert Wright: The epitome of unearned smug.

@luvitluvitbaby

2 ай бұрын

@@mcohen1966Bob is more knowledgeable on the matter.

@nealorr5086

Ай бұрын

@@luvitluvitbaby Bob looks and acts as if he's been kicked in the head by a mule... repeatedly.

Ireland was a demilitarized state and tightly controlled by the UK for roughly 20 years after accessing independance. Just saying.

@garybassin4527

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the info

@roughlygalaxy

2 ай бұрын

How exactly the Irish Republican Army ceased to exist following the War of Independence? A minority of them went to the Irish National Army, but most were against the treaty and continued as a militia movement causing serious problems for decades until the Good Friday Agreement. I don't know any facts of the Irish Independence that could barely scratch the definition of a demilitarized state especially in regards to the party they obtained their independence from.

First of all, congratulations on a substantive discussion based on facts without insults, demagoguery and lies. This is a rare thing on KZread. I have only one comment, Hamas is only a small part of the problem. The existential threat to Israel comes from Iran, which is developing nuclear weapons and openly declares its desire to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. and maintains Hezbollah in the north, with hundreds of thousands of missiles.

If Rob didn’t put himself into a debate with Coleman he might’ve actually learnt something. Rob was debating the opposing views of the situation as he perceived it but had no real response to Coleman’s actual views, failing to challenge his fundamental thesis. Coleman did a brilliant job of cutting through the back and forth arguments of diplomacy and who should’ve done what, and he did it so early in the conversation that I kept hoping that Rob would either come with an argument to challenge that thesis and duly dismantle it or be honest and open himself up to a genuinely interesting conversation that could’ve been had. I was hoping, not because I disagree with Coleman’s thesis but because I tuned in for a debate.

@GulDukat479

2 ай бұрын

I noticed that. Many times Coleman made a valid point he just ignored, or didn't directly address it, and went back to his argument.

@stu4umybru777

2 ай бұрын

@@GulDukat479 Yip, whereas every point he made Coleman countered, and did so convincingly.

@luvitluvitbaby

Ай бұрын

@@stu4umybru777I disagree. Coleman’s arguments were ridiculous and outrageously condescending towards Palestinians.

@TheHighlanderprime

Ай бұрын

@@GulDukat479 Yes, this made him argue from a standpoint of belief as opposed to intellectual balance.

@TheHighlanderprime

Ай бұрын

@@luvitluvitbaby If they were factual, they were not ridiculous and outrageous nor condescending to Palestinians, unless you’re arguing from a standpoint of belief just like Robert has been.

Wright talks about Sharon going to visit the temple mount as a provocative action. Why shouldn’t Jews be allowed to visit the holiest place for Jews? Muslims are allowed to visit the temple mount, so why can’t Jews. When Jewish holy sites were under Muslim control, Jews weren’t allowed to visit, but now that they are under Israeli control, they can. If that is an excuse for the slaughter of the second inifada, then that is quite sad.

@chessandfootball5544

Ай бұрын

That says it all basically He pretends to be neutral but oozes hatred

A fundamental contradiction @1:03:40 Wright claims Hamas accepted Oslo, but that they disn't accept Israel. If they accepted Oslo, they would have ipso facto accepted Israel! That's a foundation of Oslo!

Regarding Zionism, it’s a matter of definition - at its most fundamental it means the right of Jews for self determination. Yes, having our own state is the means by which we exercise this right because history has proven time and time again that this is the only way for us to achieve this goal. So if you view Zionism as this basic right, then you can understand why it still applies, even though Jews now have a state and why we believe being anti-Zionist is anti-semitic.

Wow Bob stepped out of his echo chamber, show would be a lot more interesting if he did this more often

@JenZee-oe2no

2 ай бұрын

I love his Pal narrative. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with what the people themselves actually believe or want. Just what he thinks is best.

@hamidhamidi3134

2 ай бұрын

Why does he or other leftists never cover the gender apartheid in Afghanistan or the killing of protesters and women in Iran ?

@aviad61

Ай бұрын

@@JenZee-oe2no yeah it's called westplaining

@nealorr5086

Ай бұрын

@@aviad61 Whitesplaining. His heroes Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden do it all the time.

"It's perfectly reasonable if you go back to the nakba that these people would want a right to return." What? This has never made sense to me. Maybe in 1967. Maybe. I moved 10 years ago. After 10 years, I consider this new place my home. Someone who moved in 1948, had children, then those had children should not consider their grandparent's old home from 76 years ago their "real home" that they need to return to.

@dl1361

2 ай бұрын

The Jews weren’t there for centuries and could’ve moved to the states. But the Zionists are supremacist at their core

@djtoland

2 ай бұрын

The Jews claim a "right of return", when they left 2000 years ago, that is insane.

@sergetka

2 ай бұрын

Fully agree. Plus the grandparent's old home doesn't exist anymore, there is maybe a road or an hospital or a residential building there instead, and the entire county doesn't exist anymore, it's a different country with different culture and language now. There is nothing to return to.

@amelieb6454

2 ай бұрын

Why should a jewish american in the US that has never lived or had close ancestors in the middle east have more rights to land in Isreal that palestenians refugees that were kicked out 75 years ago after living there for centuries ?

@deathbyslipknot

Ай бұрын

"I moved 10 years ago" Palestinians didn't move. They were moved.

"Treat the people in the wb better and it'll go a long way." And, stop launching missiles into Israel and maybe the treatment of the people will get better. It works both ways Bob.

@malvolio01

2 ай бұрын

Brown people can do no wrong in the eyes of people like Bob.

@Unfamous_Buddha

2 ай бұрын

Israel started it.

@CrincReeves

2 ай бұрын

It's amazing how the Jews from Europe who suffered at the hands of the Europeans can run to another country (Palestine) and genocide them. What did the Palestinian have to do with the Holocaust. The Europeans Jew had no tie or superior right to that land. Israel is and has always been an hostile occupier of someone else land.

@yamitwood5200

2 ай бұрын

Too bad Bob doesn’t realize that 55% of Jewish Israelis come from Arab countries from which they were ousted. Should they have a right to return? Israel is the Jewish homeland. Get used to it.

@deathbyslipknot

Ай бұрын

Why do they launch missiles into Israel, Sean?

The idea that someone turns to violent extremism because their family has faced killing is beyond offensive. Its not inevitable. Hatred is taught. There are so many conflicts around the world, where else do we see this phenomena? Where the more powerful, or "aggressor", is responsible for supporting the economy, infrastructure, security, etc. of there adversarial neighbor who is not held up to any legal standard. Should Israelis be held to the same standard as any other nation, YES, prosecute anyone that violates law. But to twist the law, or expectations when faced by a government that has no legal repercussions is so terrible. Israel needs to change a lot of their policies, but without international backing, and without setting higher standards for Palestinians, this cycle will continue. Hughes understands that "managing their ability to harm us" is the Israeli thought process. Israeli government can't take responsibility for another people's educational processes. Its a ridiculous assertion.

@sergetka

2 ай бұрын

This!! so true

@sergetka

2 ай бұрын

The Nazis killed 6 million jews, and that was pretty violent, but we don't hear and have never heard about Germans being killed by Jew axmen or blown up by Jew suicide bombers.

Wrights evidence Arafat was willing to compromise is "trust me bro"

Absolutely wonderful and thoughtful discussion. At a time when thoughtful and measured conversation on this important topic is rare, this is a breath of fresh air 👏👏👏

That is almost exactly what Japan and Germany had to agree to... guess why

@uchennakpaduwa9592

2 ай бұрын

Japan and Germany were 2 sovereign nations. Israel is trying to ethnically cleanse the region. Native Americans to colonizers is the better analogy

@iventhompson2443

2 ай бұрын

@@uchennakpaduwa9592 Umm.. Are you unfamiliar with their colonizing? There are 16m Jews in the world, how the hell are we gonna cleanse 400,000,000 arabs let alone 2B muslims? Get your head on straight, dude

@xelix5358

Ай бұрын

@@uchennakpaduwa9592 Jews went back to their ancestral land, is that what passes for colonizing now? And Japan got nuked and Germany got bombed, and that's how and why we now are at peace with them. Lesson learned by the Jews from WWII in so many ways.

Robert seems to think that the lack of military and defined permanent borders the Palestinians were offered necessarily makes the it a bad deal for the Arabs. Robert does not pay any mind to the fact that you cannot give terrorists a military. Yes, the Palestinian state would not have all the state-rights immediately. It would be a process. To point at the beginning of the process and say it looks nothing like a state, and end your analysis there, overlooks that the creation of a Palestinian state would have been a PROCESS taking years. Over that time they would gain more and more state rights, so long as there was no terrorism. This isn't difficult stuff.

In what other country to ancestors of people who formerly lived in the country get "right of return?" Most of us in the US are the descendents of refugees, my family included. I and my children don't have "right of return" to Egypt or Iran or Poland. No ancestors of refugees of any country have "right of return". What makes ancestors of people who lived in the British mandate of Palestine different from the rest of the refugees in the world? What about all the Kurds? Do they get right of return and we make Kurdistan a soveriegn state again? What about the Armenians? Do we give them right of return to Turkey? All the other ethnic groups do NOT have a state.

@amelieb6454

2 ай бұрын

We also do not have national rights just because of our religion. An american jew can emigrate in Isreal and becom isrealian just because he is jewish. Could you imagine if you could become american just because you were christian ?

@amelieb6454

2 ай бұрын

An germain jews that lost their citizenship because of nazi germany did have a right to return: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Citizenship_Restoration

@d.s.6268

Ай бұрын

@@amelieb6454 If the Christians suffered through a holocaust where half the christian population had been wiped out, and America would have been the only country in the world where Christianity was the state religion ? Why yes, any sane person could imagine that one country automatically accepting any christian as its citizen. Nothing can be more justified. And it's not like other religions can't be Israeli citizens either - there are more than 2 million muslims living in Israel with equal rights, and many christians too. It's just not automatic like it needs to be in a tiny country that is the only safe haven for jews, and these past few months have been the perfect proof of why they need that one spot where they can be safe.

It is nuts that Bob thinks that the key to peace is that the Palestinian state be allowed to have its own army. He wants to let them build up an army and have blind faith on what happens next. And he wants this while the Palestinians explicitly say that they will use the army to destory Israel. Totally crazy, and infuriating. Bob is otherwise a smart guy, but wow is he off the mark on this one.

@michaelscott70

2 ай бұрын

Agree with everything except he’s a smart guy.

@tedtalksrock

2 ай бұрын

@@michaelscott70agreed. But Bob represents the prototypical American level of intellectual engagement and I give him credit for at least having this discussion and wanting to learn more.

@d.s.6268

Ай бұрын

Yeah, complete insanity. In fact it's the opposite - the only move by the Palestinians that could gradually bring an end and a solution to this conflict is to agree (and imo - not just agree but to OFFER) to a state with no military. THAT is the one move that could get us closer to a solution and how is that supposed to even be a problem for them in any way ?

Coleman is a drop of good and truth in an ocean of stupid and liers of this world

I thought it was interesting that Wright complains that the state offered Palestinians would be broken by a road, but never mentions that if Gaza and the west bank were connected, then Israel would be broken by a road. He also points out that the old city of Jerusalem was not part of Israel in 1967, but fails to mention that Jordan conquered the old city in 1948 and expelled all the Jews from the Jewish Quarter of the old city. Wright also talks about the Palestinian refugee’s from 1948, but never mentions that the same number of Jewish refugees were expelled from Arab countries and came to Israel. He is upset that the Palestinians were not offered to have their own military, when all they have tried to do since 1948 is destroy the State of Israel. The thought of giving Palestinians tanks and an Air Force would be insane.

Thanks for this conversation, finding these kind of thoughtful respectful debates genuinely helps keep me sane in these times. I hope one day the USA starts educating its youth about different perspectives, their merits, and how to respectfully discuss topics in the hopes of attaining a better understanding.

Wright doesn’t seem to have a clue. Back in 1986, before the first intifada, there was no barrier separating Israel from the west bank. There were far fewer checkpoints. All of these things were in reaction to the constant terrorist attacks, often one or two a week. It’s not that things are bad now, and we should try to make them better. They were better, and they keep getting worse because of the security situation. Wright’s view is utterly one-sided. I don’t know if a settler actually torched the car, but I do know that Israelis on the West Bank get very angry when Palestinian terrorists kill them. It may create vigilante behavior, but it is Israeli policy to punish such behavior. Wright doesn’t even mention the number of times Palestinians have shot Israelis in their car in the West Bank.

Yes Coleman is more intelligent than Robert on the topic, but it’s hard to not be when the other person is trying to defend the indefensible.

« Israel is not in a solution management game. It’s in a problem management game right now. Sometimes problems can only be managed. Not solved. » Brilliant !👏👏👏

@luvitluvitbaby

2 ай бұрын

You can’t expect millions to live without rights and be subjected to brutality and unfair treatment in perpetuity and remain docile.

@backwardthoughts1022

Ай бұрын

​@@luvitluvitbaby and for a relatively minor crime. psychotic.

@nealorr5086

Ай бұрын

@@luvitluvitbaby 20,000 rockets = docile

@luvitluvitbaby

Ай бұрын

@@nealorr5086 It sure does when it’s in response to a 16 year seage, prizon terchurr of doctors, aid workers and other non-combatant citizens.

@nealorr5086

Ай бұрын

@@luvitluvitbaby "16 year siege"... Israel left Gaza 18 years ago, is that what you're talking about? Tell us more about your alternate history you learned at your KKK meeting last week.

I dont understand what Bob's ultimate points were, meaning what are his normative claims? Does he think Israel should just leave Gaza a West Bank and wait for the next attack?

@d.s.6268

Ай бұрын

Seems like that's what most of the world expects... Ridiculous. "Just leave these territories and we'll be good. Yeah, we attacked you from these territories when we had them, but we won't anymore" lol.

Coleman won, IMO.

@garybassin4527

2 ай бұрын

i agree fully - Robert has no clue about this conflict

@luvitluvitbaby

2 ай бұрын

Bob won. 🥇 EASY!!!

@nealorr5086

Ай бұрын

@@luvitluvitbaby You misspelled "boob". And also, "won" is not a synonym for "confirmed my pre-existing notions".

@luvitluvitbaby

Ай бұрын

@@nealorr5086 Learn to read. It’s helpful.

Bob presumes that Israelis and Palestinians are equally motivated towards a 2-state solution, which seems like a false equivalency. Israel already has a state. Its goal is ending the conflicts, violence, etc. A formal Palestinian state may be a means to that end, but from Israel's perspective, it's not a prerequisite for it. It could even be counter-productive if this new state is a greater threat to its security than the status quo. So, we should not expect Israel's motivation to be equivalent. Palestinians have to want it more, and since they don't have a state today, they should be biased towards getting a deal done vs. biased against making concessions, which Coleman alludes to in his perspective of the negotiations. But to Coleman's point, we also approach these negotiations from a Western perspective focused on conflict resolution; we can't really understand the deep-rooted psyche at play on both sides. And, I don't know if Coleman's right or not, but maybe there are "sacred cows" that some people will not concede on, even if it means keeping the status quo.

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

Pal's can't form a state. They've had 75 years, most of the world and a good portion of Israeli's trying to help them.

@sergetka

2 ай бұрын

Palestinians don't want a state period. It goes against their desire to destroy Israel and "get back" the land. Plus, look how they take the central stage now in the world. A state would mean stop to the aid which they get as "refugees", which is great money that allows them not to work, and to become a small backwater country that is bound to be radically Muslim and violent, because they have made violence their culture, and poorer ever than Egypt.

I find these debates frustrating. The one main point that is never raised is that Palestine is in a terrible bargaining position, and the longer they delay, the worse their position is.

Narratives can change but there has to be incentive. There is no incentive currently for Palestinians to change course. No one holds them accountable politically.

admirable exercise in civil conversation

Incredibly civil debate, I just don’t understand why Robert can’t grasp Coleman’s point on Palestinian identity.

Again my takeaway is that the Pro-Palestinian side mostly arguments on a fundamental level for "why Israel is and has always been bad and in the wrong", while the Pro-Israel side follows a much more pragmatic way of thinking in terms of "what can actually be done to make this situation better for the people we are responsible for". Of course that's not valid for all people involved, but as a general trend i think it's visible.

Host has exactly zero understanding of what Hamas and islamism are.

Coleman handled that bag.

@cronizle

2 ай бұрын

What's one relevent point he made? Like Wright claimed Israel and US made deals impossible to take. As evidence he talked about forcing hamas to declare Israel a state when all the other Arab states had not, still don't to today, and then added that as a requirement knowing the palistinians would be hard pressed to accept it. Or When he talked about land swaps. I didn't here Coleman make or refute anything like that? Can you help me out with just one?

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

@@cronizle As Coleman said, the sticking point TO PALESTINIANS was not the land. More or less wasn't going to matter. Do you ever listen to P's when they speak in Arabic? When they speak to each other on Arabic broadcasts? They aren't fighting for land. And they certainly aren't fighting for their children.

@JenZee-oe2no

2 ай бұрын

@@FaerieSidhe And then there's the need to re-establish Islamic rule.

@urthogie

2 ай бұрын

​@@cronizle I'm half way through the vid, and one point that Coleman made that stood out, is that by Robert's logic (that Israel is just creating more hate to its detriment), withdrawing from Gaza in 2005 was a case study showing the opposite. Basically that the hate is at a 9.9, and it's at a 10 now, it's not much different. Recall that after the Gaza withdrawal Hamas's next step was to fire rockets at Israel. This suggests that Israel needs to focus on managing the violence rather than trying to be hated less. I don't think Robert had a response to that, this whole "you're breeding future terrorists" argument kinda fails when you look for examples that'd support it. Instead, the Palestinian side is committed to fighting Israel for existing regardless.

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

@@JenZee-oe2no That is definitely taboo. Even though it's clearly a political ideology. Just one nobody is allowed to discuss.

Hughes does a stella job. Really good to see him dismantling the ridiculous ooints of Wright.

@Oneflyingchair

Ай бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Robert Wright misquoting Abba Eban shows how deeply he has bought into Arab propaganda, and why his cognitive biases keep him from being convinced by Coleman's impressive points about how wrong he is. The quote is "Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." Abba Eban understood what Robert Write refuses to admit (probably to himself) that Gaza, Judea and Samaria is populated by Arabs, and that they invented the word Palestinian to mean anyone in the land the Romans named Palestine (named as a F&%$ You to the Jews) that is not a Jew.

Bob needs to step aside and stop living in the past. Coleman has more facts and more relevant facts.

1:04:18 Dude is acting like recognition of Israel is somehow an unreasonable request. If Hamas won't do that, how can they be a serious partner for any 2 staye solution?

@SuperKripke

2 ай бұрын

There was never a two state solution as Israel has nothing to gain for it. Their only interest was a permanent occupation and an ethnic cleansing for their lebensraum ideology. If the Israelis were legit about two states it would have been done long ago rather than invent goalposts like Hamas when they arrived relatively recently.

@house684

2 ай бұрын

Because Israel doesn't care about recognition. Israel wants to steal the land and wants the Palestenians gone. The Palestinian Authorities recognized Israel 40 years ago, how far did that get them?

@morenitomoreno1282

2 ай бұрын

True but no Israeli goverment has ever recognized Palestine as a state (138 other countries have. Much more than the number of countries who recognized Israel in 1948) yet Israel apologists never points to that as evidence the Israeli government doesnt want peace. Mind you, they already have a state. Have had it for 70 years. Have the backing of the most powerful country in human history so that state aint going anywhere. Palestinians are the ones without a state because the US and Israel systematically block its official recognition yet many dont see this as a anti peace

@garybassin4527

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely correct

@russellcook3922

2 ай бұрын

Who funded Hamas?

Bob reeks of a time when few letter acronyms like like UN, and NYT held a certain class and cultural capital. It's 2024.

Arafat agreed to the Clinton parameters a year AFTER Clinton was out. Wright claims the issue with 2000 Camp David was Arafat wasn’t offered a “real” sovereign state, so how could anyone blame him for not agreeing to Israel’s offer, his argument goes? BUT, how does one square that with Clinton’s claim in his autobiography that Arafat a year later came around to accept the Clinton parameters, IOW a not a “real” sovereign state. Of course, by then Bush was in power and any deal off the table. Which is another way of saying, “the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”

@P4DR

Ай бұрын

You actually take Clinton’s word? 😂

It feels like a boring monologue from host. Coleman talked 30% only. People wanna hear more of him.

Robert Wright's facial expressions when Coleman speaks are ridiculous.

@TheMarlinlask

2 ай бұрын

Bordering Tourettes. He doesn't come across very informed, either. Coleman isn't extemly but has serious common sense.

I love Coleman but don’t agree on his analysis on “from the river to the sea”. It is free speech but to denude it of its meaning, as originally adopted, basically means it loses its function as a word (or slogan). Can I use the “n” word and claim that I don’t mean anything bad about it, knowing full well that it is a word used to communicate bad things. I can’t choose a word, then claim that it means x when the meaning of the word, as it stood when i adopted it, meant y. Kind of silly. “Gas the Jews”. Oh, I didn’t mean to kill them, like the Nazis; I just meant to knock them out. Kind of ridiculous.

@gesa8518

2 ай бұрын

Yes exactly! It is your responsibility what you claim and if you don't mean what you say, you should use another phrase. This is the result of the debate what you can say and what you can't. If you are not held by the meaning of the words you can stop the debate of free speech, because then everything is alowed.

Reminder that Jordan is 80% of the British mandate of Palestine.

20 minutes - great discussion. Coleman and Bob are always perceptive and thoughtful. Can you link to the "Death in Gaza" documentary?

@Nonzero

2 ай бұрын

The search that used to get it on KZread isn't working now. Maybe that was an unauthorized copy that was taken down. It's an HBO documentary, presumably available somewhere via streaming.

@Nonzero

2 ай бұрын

Here it is: kzread.info/dash/bejne/iY6nm6SKiNfIfqQ.html&rco=1

@boynamesue7720

2 ай бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/hXaB2JugqrzJj5c.htmlsi=a_ZiuEa75DnWBA_K

Coleman, G-d bless you! Such a clear thinking man. Truly beautiful to see.

I agree with Coleman's thesis: until the education of Palestinians changes, there's only management.

@synchronium24

2 ай бұрын

Netanyahu has a self-admitted habit of doing exactly what creates anti-Israeli sentiment rather than securing Israel's security. "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy - to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."

@e.b.1115

2 ай бұрын

Until the education of Americans, Israel will always have it's genocides funded

If you arent willing to address the religious aspects (that once Islam conquers an area it must be Allahs forever and Muslims are called to fight anyone who takes it back), then the rest of the dialogue is pointless.

Great debate. Both were true gents. I would say though, Colman's objectivity is closer to the reality of the Middle East.

@luvitluvitbaby

2 ай бұрын

I agree with Bob. He was far more objective.

Wright seems completely confused. Hughes makes the valid point that lots of people became refugees in the 1940s, and that only Palestinians insist on this right of return. Wright argues that all the other refugees have a state, and that Palestinians on the West Bank don’t have full rights. What does that have to do with Hughes’ argument? The discussion is why the Palestinians insist on a right of return to Israel as part of a negotiation for their own state in the West Bank and Gaza. They would have a state for the refugees to return. The West Bank wouldn’t be under Israeli control. The point is they don’t want the refugees to return to a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza. They want the refugees to return to 1948 Israel. They even want refugees who currently live in the West Bank and Gaza to return to Israel proper.

At this point everyone knows what From the River . . . means. It's been explained over and over. Those who continue to use it. Mean it.

@heteroerectus

2 ай бұрын

Hughes just explained a common scenario from his own experience where people do not know what it means.

@roelofjacobs5807

2 ай бұрын

Are you sure that everybody truly knows what "From the river to the sea" means, given that you also have "Queers for Palestine"? Also be aware that there are many many people, and in this age of camera's and social media and polarization, you will always find plenty of ignorant fools on 'the other side'.

@CrincReeves

2 ай бұрын

It's amazing how the Jews from Europe who suffered at the hands of the Europeans can run to another country (Palestine) and genocide them. What did the Palestinian have to do with the Holocaust. The Europeans Jew had no tie or superior right to that land. Israel is and has always been an hostile occupier of someone else land.

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

@@roelofjacobs5807 At this point, yes. You do have some personal responsibility when you open your mouth and become an advocate. And this has been a focal point for months. I don't doubt you could find some tag-alongs that are that clueless.

@ahmedbenlahrech5352

2 ай бұрын

I might be ignorant to the topic, but wdym exactly? Do you mean people finally realized that this chant is not genocidal and has been around way before 7 of oct? Or the opposite

Why immigration policy of any state should be a business of other states?

@roughlygalaxy

2 ай бұрын

When they have forcibly expelled part of the native population out of their territory based on a UN resolution to split the land, it becomes a discussion relevant to any UN member state. I believe you are referring to the right of return.

@srikantmantravadi

2 ай бұрын

​@@roughlygalaxysorry jews were in the land first

@d.s.6268

Ай бұрын

@@roughlygalaxy So they just woke up the day after the UN resolution and "forcibly expelled part of the native population" ? Are you lying or just ignorant ? They were ATTACKED by those people and all surrounding arab countries after the UN resolution to split the land. A day after Israel declared its independence on the part of the land they were given by the UN !!! Think that might be a relevant detail to add to your revisionist history ??? So yeah, I'm sure you would just leave that native population alone where they were after those attacks and expected for them to be your peaceful neighbours, right ? You would raise your children next to them, and have them suffer no consequences for just trying to kill you. That is very kind of you. I would laugh if not for you being a liar.

You are missing a whole aspect if you don't talk about religion (Ishma-el vs Isra-ei). Also, the 1948 land is the crux of the problem, not the west bank.

Is Coleman checking his own heart rate at 1:14:00? If so, that's amazing. Checking in with himself on his emotional state during discussions seems to be one of his biggest strengths already. If he literally checks his pulse to help do this, that's really cool.

Why invite a guest onto your show, if you continue to dominate the conversation. It's definitely not an interview, and hardly constitutes what we understand is a conversation. I will chase up Coleman's podcasts, so that I get to hear his views now.

@chadreilly

2 ай бұрын

Nah, I like that Bob pushes back with what he thinks. Better than Rogan, et al. letting people just spout gibberish cause he doesn't know any better.

@thebarryman

2 ай бұрын

At no point is it represented as an interview. It's presented as a debate and that's what it was. Both guys had plenty of time to make their cases and neither one interrupted the other. Go complain somewhere else.

@annsharley4538

2 ай бұрын

@thebarryman A debate dominated by one big ego. You're correct. This format is not for me. Robert shouldn't bother having guests on his show. He should convey his views direct to camera, 'talking head' style.

@chadreilly

2 ай бұрын

@@annsharley4538 I thought the back in forth was great. Kinda the purpose isn't it? Coleman has his own page too. And who wants to see the same interviewers ask the same questions? Some people I guess, lol

@thebarryman

2 ай бұрын

@@annsharley4538 Bob didn't interrupt Coleman, let him take all the time he wanted, and wasn't demeaning, so I don't really know what his ego has to do with it. Most people in media have big egos, it comes with the territory.

Let Coleman speak more. U invited him

This guy on the left is completely out of his depth. Coleman Hughes shouldn't have given this guy the time of day, he's a lightweight.

Listen to Coleman, his analysis is accurate, and he articulates it perfectly.

@cronizle

2 ай бұрын

What's one point he made? Most of the time it's was just slogans that could be made in any debate about anything like "you're missing the Forest through the trees."That was his response to being confronted with the US and Israel taking clear steps that make taking a deal hard and selling the deal to the public, impossible. He never offered any counterpoints but instead he would just disagree. Like, "I want to push back on Arafat becoming more moderate... like he was no Nelson Mandela."

@itsikmiz

2 ай бұрын

@@cronizle He recognize the root cause that the conflict did not resolve until today, which is the so called "right of return", which is a political tool for not admitting the 1948 defeat, and not accepting two state solution between a Jewish state and an Arab state.

@cronizle

2 ай бұрын

@itsikmiz So the fighting over land isn't over until it's over? What brilliant political analysis... that means nothing. Right of return has always been a hard point to negotiate. No one disagrees. But saying that's just what Palistinians ask for to blow up deals is an opinion and one that he didn't provide any evidence for. So the entire thing means nothing, doesn't go against anything Wright said, and can't be verified or validated. The dude might as well be a body language expert on CNN.

@FaerieSidhe

2 ай бұрын

@@cronizle It's not over land. Y'all are so far behind.

@JenZee-oe2no

2 ай бұрын

@@FaerieSidhe Yep.

I largely agree with Coleman, however a counterpoint to his point at 1:05:30 is American identity at one point was distinctly “we are NOT the British”, but that faded over time.

@yanivreif7379

2 ай бұрын

The difference is there an ocean between the US and Britain (and back than crossing this ocean was a lot harder than the 20st century).

@Norrieification

2 ай бұрын

@@yanivreif7379 Yes and no. The people in the country we now call “Canada” were absolutely considered British.

@yanivreif7379

2 ай бұрын

@@Norrieification Interesting didn’t know that🙏

@Norrieification

2 ай бұрын

@@yanivreif7379 welcome! I’m Canadian myself so maybe it’s just more commonly taught up here.

Just watching and listening to Wright, it's clear that he is extremely emotionally invested in Israel being "wrong", and that whatever Israel did do, is doing, or will do, is unacceptable. Not sure why open minded people bother to go on his podcast? Coleman is calm, collected and intelligent.

Knowing both of you, I expect this will be far more informative and productive than the debate on Lex Fridman Edit: I was right. WAAAAY better.

@sterlingveil

2 ай бұрын

Oh, you're talking about the Destiny vs Finkelstein debate... for a second I thought Lex had Coleman or Wright on... DISAPPOINTED!

@RGatGala

2 ай бұрын

Not really that hard to predict no offense

@noahghost4476

2 ай бұрын

I love these gus, hate bob's criticism of israel, and disagree with you! That debate on fridman with morris/destiny vs fink and the sneaky liar guy was amazing. Well, it was so different from this, I guess I don't disagree with you, but I really enjoyed watching fink try to argue with morris about what morris wrote. I'm so frustrated for israel - the way people mis-read the history. If I had to guess, I'd say you are anti-israel if you liked this debate more. Anyway, much respect, bob is a hero even though he's wrong about israel! : )

@gmw3083

2 ай бұрын

​@@noahghost4476Finklestein uses Morris's historical accounts against him and Israel. The zionarrative is broken.

@gmw3083

2 ай бұрын

​@noahghost4476 fink broke mo's narrative with his own historical account

This robert wright guy is soooo far out of his depth. Having trouble understanding the most basic concepts.

Robert, if a state an end of occupation was the Palestinians gol, it’s on them to keep the talkin going. You and others dismiss them too easily.

@sunnyvegas2778

2 ай бұрын

its not on them to do anything when they cant control their flow of commerce or currency

@iditbes6962

2 ай бұрын

@@sunnyvegas2778 Do you have any idea why Israel controls it?

@d.s.6268

Ай бұрын

@@sunnyvegas2778 And yet, somehow they control their flow of weapons quite well. Funny how there's plenty of resources for that. They just keep running out of everything except missiles don't they...

Bob is not accurate about the facts. The Palestinians were offered 98% of the west bank.

@creoken8772

2 ай бұрын

Palestinian in the west bank don't feel how blessed they are if they accept being ruled by Israel, look at Gaza, how wonderful it is. the west bank could flourish like that if they just accept.

@user-qh7rj9wj4p

2 ай бұрын

Rubbish

@kimcarsons7036

2 ай бұрын

the west bank : a series of check points and separate parcel of land designed to produce Palestinian dehumanization.

@morenitomoreno1282

2 ай бұрын

With Israel military presence. Israel controlling the airspace, Israel keep a radar there, Palestinians not allowed to have an army... name one nation in the world thar exist under such conditions imposed to them by another nation. Also, how does rejecting that non state deal justify the expantion of the colonies in the West Bank?

@BlackBeltMonkeySong

2 ай бұрын

Not only were they offered 98% of the west bank, they refused to continue to negotiate an even better deal by demanding the right to return.

Good debate, thanks Bob and Coleman.

Coleman is an absolute genius!

Coleman is the clearest and most articulate on this issue, bravo sir.

Long live Israel !

I couldn't imagine anything better than you two perfectly dry and logical folks putting out a discussion on this.

@ericmiller8408

Ай бұрын

Ohhhhh.... Oh yes. Now this is good.

@ericmiller8408

Ай бұрын

Bob. You are a monster. In the best possible way.

My like is for Coleman Hugh’s, not the pathetic excuse of an interviewer.

I was listening to this in the background so didn't see comments and was expecting that audience will support the host it appears I was very wrong. While listening to the guest I kept thinking that he is perfect example of what I was thinking in recent months, that USA and many if it's citizens have no clue about nation dynamics and deny agency of smaller nations. I came to this line of thinking because of war in Ukraine and as someone from a small country the fact that Americans completely ignore opinions, suggestions and even historical facts just on the fact that some countries are insignificant when it comes to power therefore they must be less trustworthy then big guys. It's clear to me that our opinion have been and is completely ignored when it comes to regional matters. By us I mean little guys Poles, Baltics, Czechs etc etc. Instead of engaging with us we're being called warmongers, jaded because of history etc etc and then when our warnings turn to realty, big guys gives us some praise for being right and immediately sideline us again. US completely disastrous policies in Iraq and Afghanistan yet another proof that thus country just doesn't understand dynamics of countries with long history. And the way this guest talks about Palestinians is again the same. He prescribes them all to the same group. Absolutely ignores clear facts that Israel is at blame for situation too. West bank policies are just shame on all of the west, nobody should ignore it let alone defend it and yet its always ignored. And most important thing of all Israel is the reason why this is a problem in the first place. But nobody is willing to admit it. I'm not calling for destruction of Israel all I'm saying is if this continuous and settlers get their way then it's game over for Ukraine and many other ciuntries, because all you have to do is replicate what Israel is doing. Establish settlements, pass the inhabitants as cilivians and not occupants, protect them with military for whatever amount of time and the land is yours. This is perfect scenario for China and Russia .

Great discussion!

Coleman’s the man. I’m in lock-step with everything that he’s intellectually articulated.

Mr Hughes, you are one of the brightest minds today.

Someone please send Robert Write a copy of "The Missing Peace" by Dennis Ross.

Robert Wright said "If you are not Jewish it is almost impossible to immigrate" Laughably untrue.

Much truth on both sides. If anyone has seen a more balanced debate on this topic? If so, please post a link to it here. That said, it looks to me like Coleman's point of view is more realistic and profoundly true.