Bob often says that Israel's actions are not in its own (long term) interests. Perhaps another dimension to this is the strife that is growing within the country. When countries pursue violent policies, the chickens inevitably come home to roost in multiple forms, including social strife. This affects all, not just those who support this war.

Advanced rhetoric…win the debate point, no matter the half truths, omissions or non sequitors….

Congratulations on having a conversation I actually could listen to (most of it). That is typically not the case on topics around antisemitism, so thank you both. I guess what I would like to hear someone like Eli address is the scale of Israel's attack on Gaza.

@eemoogee160

Ай бұрын

Yeah. War crimes aren't allowed because one manages to play the race card

Bob reminds me of a Rich Hall character. See Rich Halls Vanishing America.

@Blashswanski

Ай бұрын

That is hilarious. I remember Rich from British panel shows. Uncanny resemblance.

@robairjazz

Ай бұрын

@@Blashswanski I’m know! Right?!

@mathsmakessense

Ай бұрын

@@robairjazz More of an Andrew Scott, I'd say, but some of Rich too.

Take your double standards argument and apply it to mainstream media, national and local politics, and industry.

Good stuff. The Hebrew word is “dugma “ a positive example-of comity and good faith. Bravo guys

It’s so naive or disingenuous to think that money doesn’t affect how politicians act, why would any lobby give money if they didn’t want to affect outcomes?

Such a relief. 13:24 I worried maybe I'd judged bob too harshly. He set my mind at ease.

@publicaccessisdead592

Ай бұрын

It’s almost the funniest joke

After the NYT Gettleman article was largely debunked he's still leaning heavy on that narrative unchanged; I think Eli should have been challenged a bit more on that. The venue change for safety he mentioned should have definitely been contrasted with the USC valedictorian graduation speech that was banned for unspecified safety reasons yet the graduation continued in the same large arena/stadium-like venue otherwise unchanged: just the speech removed.

@karen-qm7og

Ай бұрын

Zionists like Eli thrive on inflating perceived and actual bigotry against Jews and conflating legitimate criticism against Israel with bigotry against Jews. They further refuse to accept that there is bigotry against all ethnic groups.

Eli Lake, in every debate, is incapable of objectivity. He’s all emotion.

As someone who didnt really care before one way or the other the biggest issue or difference i see is the duplicity or double standard zionists seem to be guilty of more often . For example an random representative of hamas says something about wanting to kill all the jews . That is interpreted as being the same as it being that is the desire of all Palestinians. When a jewish member of the parliament talks about Palestinians as less than human and gaza should be turned into a parking that is dismissed as just one persons opinion who is passionate and angry over the october 7th attack. Idk which way is correct or true but hold the same standard for both sides . There are so many other examples like this . I start to develop animus toward the more deceptive hypocritical side . That then means i am somehow antisemitic.

gee i wonder why?

Robert Wright "I am against extreme characterizations that are inflammatory.... except when they are leveled against Jews?"

When the facts are not on your side you are forced to present your biased opinion with a tone and tenor that suggest that disagreement is offensive and unreasonable and you sound like a whinney ❄️.

I was near the Toronto march Eli mentions late in the podcast. It was absolutely not a protest of the hospital. That hospital is downtown and in one of the busiest areas. The protest marched past the hospital--as many other protests have--and stopped briefly there along the way. Add this to the list of Eli's egregious mischaracterizations.

@davidsheriff9274

Ай бұрын

What you're saying is simply not true. They very deliberately stopped in front of Mount Sinai, the only Jewish hospital on hospital row, they were banging drums, preventing people from entering, and chanted "intifada"and they were scaling the scaffolding outside of the hospital with a Palestinian flag. Those are the facts, don't take my word for it, it's all on video. If those were right wing Neo Nazis doing the same thing, you would be saying " of course it was antisemitic".

Could Israeli Arabs build illegal settlements in the Westbank?

I do think antisemitism has increased in the US. We are not a country known to educate for, or govern with, maturity and wisdom. I’m not sure Eli Lake is the best person to speak with about this, though.

@sizzle119

Ай бұрын

It was rising well before Oct 7th thanks to the people Eli Lake now embraces as allies. It is horrifying, but also disgusting (particularly on Lake and his ilks’ part)

@jennysteves

Ай бұрын

@@sizzle119I’m sure you are right. I see xenophobia and hatred of our perceived ‘other’ increasing everywhere, though. This will destroy us all if we are not careful. I am not on X and don’t plan to ever be, so Eli is an unknown quantity for me other than to listen to how he portrays himself and his worldview during these interviews. The feeling I get is ‘closed’, and unable to acknowledge the slaughter of human beings that has and is occurring on both sides. Persecution and harm must be recognized, acknowledged and rectified from every angle. I grew up in NJ, went to Rutgers, and saw fine tendrils of institutional antisemitism baked in back then. I assumed it was due to provincialism and ignorance. I found it to be even worse in the south, where a a broader version of ‘anti-‘ seemed baked in. What will it take to soften this .. soften us.

@eemoogee160

Ай бұрын

​@@jennystevesIn Texas it is illegal to criticize Israel

@thebarryman

Ай бұрын

I think I agree with you. Pretty much thought Bob wiped the floor with Eli in terms of debate, but on the overall topic I think it's clear antisemitism has increased.

@karen-qm7og

Ай бұрын

​@@thebarrymanBigotry of all kinds has increased. Israel's apocalyptic siege of Gaza isn't helping public perceptions of that country's religion, particularly in view of Israelís' appetite for vengeance in Gaza and the West Bank, and the impunity that settler extremists enjoy in today's Israel. Israel isn't the country it was under Shimon Peres or Yitzhak Rabin.

Good to get this stuff recorded for the history books Eli. The conversations often seem pointless and depressing but they need to happen.

Hey Bob, try this out this experiment - Put on a yarmulka and walk around these “encampments” or NYC, and come back and report how it went.

@karen-qm7og

Ай бұрын

Journalist Michael Tracey did precisely that. He was absolutely fine. The real violence perpetrated on college campuses was at UCLA by *pro-Israel* counter-protesters who acted with impunity. CNN reported on this.

@erikapland3570

Ай бұрын

You believe it is impossible to wear a yarmulke in New York City and you want people to take you seriously?

Wow, he thinks the protesters are on the wrong side. He’s in for a rude awakening.

Some extremely weak arguments coming from Eli. Leaps in logic quite phenomenal; and largely emotionally based.

Israel is a foreign country. So.. if there are protests against Israel.. it is NOT a protest against American Jewish people. The American Jewish people don't need to take this criticism so personally... unless they are Israelis.. it is not about them. There is always a mixing of the two.. Israel criticism is NOT always about Jewish people or culture. It is about what that government does.

@noahghost4476

Ай бұрын

Most Jews love israel. Maybe you love your mother. If I'm constantly talking crap about your mother, that doesn't mean I've got anything against you. So that's cool right? If I just talk mad smack about your mother? Ever heard of unconscious bias? That's what you have. When you figure out that Israel is conducting this war in a way that is more ethical, then Iraq and Yugoslavia and Afghanistan and other recent wars.... you're going to have this moment of clarity and realize the reason for your anti-zionism was anti-semitism. It's not that anti-zionism is the same as anti-semitism, it's that anti-Semitism drives your anti-zionism. Israel and its people are amazing and legitimate and there's nothing wrong with their state. You're going to feel like a clown when it dawns on you that your own unconscious bias against Jews cause you to trick yourself into rationalizing your hate.

@amant7963

Ай бұрын

Palestine is also foreign .. same goes for hamas supporting protesters , don’t take it personal

@Zidana123

Ай бұрын

​@@noahghost4476 I laughed. You chide and shrew at Nancy as if you yourself were her mother. A bit too accustomed to speaking down to the ol' goyims from on high, eh Master?

@karen-qm7og

Ай бұрын

​The US is funding Israel's apocalyptic siege of Gaza and providing diplomatic cover for it. Many Jews oppose this. ​@@amant7963

A man who only got places by saying and writing what powerful people wanted to hear and read.

Robert Wright, you should really try and afford the Israelis a similar amount of empathy and charity that you give to the Palestinians.

@eemoogee160

Ай бұрын

It's useful for friendly discussion but it's challenging to fathom how anyone could support this slaughter.

@clifb.3521

Ай бұрын

@@eemoogee160well put

@RedOlympus

Ай бұрын

@@eemoogee160 which slaughter?

@eemoogee160

Ай бұрын

@@RedOlympus It's ongoing as we speak. Forced starvation as well.

"That crosses a line" Yeah, your line

@noahghost4476

Ай бұрын

You want to say ilhan Omar is not anti-semitic? Same as bob, you'll find yourself flailing trying to defend a bad faith position.

1:03:10 Eli Lake had no real defense for his mischaracterization.

@thebarryman

Ай бұрын

Pretty much a knockout punch from Bob, in terms of debate per-se.

No

@mattconstantine9884

Ай бұрын

yes

@robairjazz

Ай бұрын

Yes

@shannon8111

Ай бұрын

Maybe?

@gilleek2

Ай бұрын

Definitely Maybe

Apocryphal statement after Apocryphal statement....after exaggeration.....after supposition....after supposition....after spurious argument....all along with an utter incapacity to either listen or hear what Robert said.

😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

The mental gymnastics Bob goes through to deny the existence of antisemitism is wild. There’s no way he’d ever question the validity of another minority groups concerns about the bigotry they are subject to like he does here. Every concern Eli raises Bob uses an opportunity to gaslight (at worst) or minimise (at best).

@karen-qm7og

Ай бұрын

Bob expressly stated that he does think it exists - as do other forms of bigotry. He also states that anti-Semitism is difficult to define. I personally think the term has been inflated to become essentially meaningless at this point. Bigotry is bigotry - no matter what ethnic or religious group is targeted. Israel lobby groups have for decades worked to delegitimize all criticism of Israel by conflating criticism of Israel with bigotry against Jewish people. The lobbies have engaged in speech policing and continue to engage in it. Their influence on US politics and US foreign policy is undeniable.

dude said at the start he was for free speech. Seems like he actually meant free speech to talk when others are talking.

Ugh.. Exhausting. Sorry I cant listen to this guy anymore. I know too many people with the same arrogant, ignorant and self Righteous views and attitude.

@colemannee9898

Ай бұрын

Which guy?

@MrJDCohen

Ай бұрын

@@colemannee9898 Eli Lake

@eemoogee160

Ай бұрын

I have trouble believing that they believe their own bs.

I have never seen a Khamas flag at any of the rallies. Nor have I heard any antisemitic statements or chants. And I have NEVER EVER heard anyone, anywhere, call for the “genocide the Jews”.

Does Eli Lake believe that Jewishness (in whatever sense he considers himself to possess the attribute of Jewishness) is a nationality? This seems like this is such a crucial question and starting point for any discussion on this subject, and yet I see next to no commentators clarify their position on this.

@karen-qm7og

Ай бұрын

Judaism isn't a monolith, despite the unwavering efforts of the well-funded Israel lobbies to smear Jews who dissent from their dictates as useful idiots or self-hating Jews.

all those double standards he keeps imagining, you're not really talking to anyone here

@eemoogee160

Ай бұрын

Bad hasbara. Go figure.

good conversation, but the interviewer really needs to stop interrupting. It's very frustrating and it made the interviewee feel that he had to rush to finish his points. Interrupting is such a cringey boomerism too, it belongs on Fox News or MSNBC, not on a sober long-format discussion video like this. Let people speak at their own pace, and complete their points, without all this weird verbal pressure. If you have trouble remembering the points they made that you want to rebut, just take notes on a pad of paper. Otherwise very interesting.

@noahghost4476

Ай бұрын

"Boomerism" really?? Gross. You did all that condescension and one-upping to score virtue points, and you ruined it by showing how feeble you really are.

@elliottcovert3796

Ай бұрын

Bob usually has discussions and debates with guests, not interviews.

@thebarryman

Ай бұрын

It's not an interview, it's a debate.

@karen-qm7og

Ай бұрын

It's not a platform for the guests. It's a discussion.

Viloence is not right on either side.

@eemoogee160

Ай бұрын

Absolutely. Should be something anyone could get behind. But apparently one side has a license to slaughter.

Eli is a fanatic...

Although I follow both of you time to time, I did not see your previous conversation. Which leads me to ask: did you previously discuss the role Netanyahu played in supporting and facilitating financing for Hamas? I'm sure you know about this strategy he described to his cabinet for defeating Palestinian statehood. It was reported on and criticized at the time, March 2019, by Israeli media but not in the US. US politicians and media pundits were then, like now, promoting the two state solution and reminding us of how Palestinians had repeatedly rejected Israel's numerous, generous statehood offers.

9:22 There are more groups, the largest being white people, especially white men. I agree with Eli that all such special treatment should be ended. It should not be extended to Jews - that will just prolong the discrimination against the remaining groups. Almost all of the "anti-Semitism" from the non-Muslim woke protestors is just anti-Europeanism extrapolated. You can guarantee that if the Jews of Israel looked like Congolese people, there would be no protests.

@eemoogee160

Ай бұрын

The racial aspect is only relevant with regards to concepts of indigenousness to the Middle East.

@karen-qm7og

Ай бұрын

If Israel had been colonized by people resembling the Congolese, the US wouldn't be funding it.

Bari weiss and ben shapiro continue to disappoint me bari more then ben . There is not a bigger crybaby hypocrite then her .

@karen-qm7og

Ай бұрын

Add Jerry Seinfeld to that list.

Bob, your obsession with the question of whether "from the river to the sea..." chant is antisemitic or not makes me think you *are* antisemitic.

@mattconstantine9884

Ай бұрын

C'mon... I disagree with Mr. Wright. Often. But I have never assumed bad faith when I disagree, even if (or especially if?) it is over how much a certain topic matters.

@robairjazz

Ай бұрын

I wish he’d just come out and say Jews annoy him. Look at the way he fidgets and picks the back of his head.

@daudder

Ай бұрын

Skipped by it, the phrase, used by Palestinians now, was also used by Zionists and was in the original Likud party platform. It does has multiple meanings, by ‘all sides’…

@jennysteves

Ай бұрын

I believe Eli first brought it up. He seemed quite emotional about it when contrasted with Bob.

@noahghost4476

Ай бұрын

Seems to me the likud party used that phrase as a *response* to its use a few years earlier by the plo.

this guy looks like Bill Paxton in Wierd Science. I'm sure that means nothing.

Hamas are people too are they not?

Yeah, it's hard for nuance and details relating to these protests to be taken seriously because we dont properly apply it to almost any other causes. At least part of the mainstream was trying to do it with 2020, ala mostly peaceful protests, etc. There is almost no legitimization from academia and a large part of the mainstream for almost any right wing cause, for example.

@holyworrier

Ай бұрын

"...we don't properly apply it to almost any other causes." There is no cause, foreign policy-wise, that envelops the country so fundamentally. None, at the moment, are so fully in our laps.

@eemoogee160

Ай бұрын

Don't worry. The political establishment and corporate interests are fully on board with Israel's right-wing agenda.

@olewetdog6254

Ай бұрын

@@holyworrier You mean the Ukraine America Political Action Committee doesn't qualify??

@holyworrier

Ай бұрын

@@olewetdog6254 - It's not a contest.

Bob is all about mediation and cognitive empathy EXCEPT when it comes to Israel, when he gets all agitated. He is admirably objective and gives a fair hearing to both sides on most contentious issues (e.g. Russia-Ukraine) EXCEPT when it comes to Israel. Bob, look in the mirror. That's the face of antisemitism.

@5piles

Ай бұрын

youre psychotic.

@karen-qm7og

Ай бұрын

Ad hominem all you got?

Robert Wright has the worst views on Israel. Truly embarrassing views.

@mattconstantine9884

Ай бұрын

No. I disagree with him, a lot. But your description is not fair.

@eemoogee160

Ай бұрын

Israel's actions are causing a generation to lose faith in humanity. That's powerful stuff. It's also unlikely to make the nation safer. Really bad policy.

This guy is so obnoxious.

Got to go... This guy is so biased it is insufferable.

They're all so manipulative..

I am confuses as to why I am subscribed to this channel. "Meanings change"? So we're falling back on ol' linguistic imprecision? Nope. Not buying it. Bye.

@larchlarch9851

Ай бұрын

Touche....

@AnthonyL0401

Ай бұрын

Impatient

You can't blame Hamas for its antisemitism. It's like blaming Jews for hating Germans back in the day.

Eli is a creep