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End of life factor aside, having products that are based on digital platforms will inevitably enable companies to get greedy and lock features behind subscription models. Which forces you to keep spending. Whereas a real amp, keeps working no matter what.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Exactly! I didn't get into plugins but I did a video a while ago where I mentioned my Waves plugins. I spent a small fortune on Waves plugins not realizing they wanted an annual "upgrade plan" fee every year. They stopped working when I migrated to my new computer and they won't work again unless I pony up a few hundred backs to activate the newest versions of plugins I already paid for. And most of those have no new features! So I wouldn't actually be paying for anything. How's that for progress!!

@GuitarsAndSynths

28 күн бұрын

@@LonelyRocker ah yes such a great point! I love my tube amps and compared software and hardware modelers to tube amps and the feel of tube amp is better. Natural and powerful. I can use stomp boxes for effects easier too.

I’ve always treated guitars and amps like cars, get a good used one that’s maybe a year or so old, and let someone else pay for the depreciation.

I worked in a guitar store for several years and played all of the well known (tube and modeling) amps. To this day, no modeling Amp can 100% replace the feel and tone you get from a (well designed) tube amp. The feel is different. The modeling stuff came a long way, but there is still a difference. Same thing with Studio/recording gear. You can`t replicate the sound of analog gear with plugins. Maybe 85-90%, but the depth and feel of analog gear is not replaceable. Get a well designed tube amp and be happy for the next 50 years.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I’m a sworn tube guy but digital has made my studio possible. But my point of this video are amps that have digital components. That concerns me.

@daveaufradern6658

5 ай бұрын

Got it, but wanted to make a statement for tube amps anyway :-) @@LonelyRocker

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I'm with you on the amps though! First ones in and they will be the last ones out!! :)

@jasondorsey7110

5 ай бұрын

​@@LonelyRockerThe manufacturers have streamlined their tube choices...those old ampegs that used "hi fi" tubes sound incredible like no other brand, both warm and clear...it's a shame to think they'll end up in landfills just because those tubes no longer exist, while the stuff that gets made going forward all sounds vaguely similar

@dalepiwek

5 ай бұрын

My problem is that a very important fraction of my sound comes from the speakers doing their thing at the db level they were designed to do it at. The other problem is that I've never been able to program the fractal or whatever to physically react like 4 carefully biased gain stages in conjunction with a 2204's PI. The end result is an old HD500X into a Furman PQ4 into a JC120 into 2 cabs for digital or my 2204 into an MF cab for real sound

Great points. As a boutique amp builder I keep the tube amp as simple as possible and ease of maintenance is a top priority. The digital effects are kept external but the amps do need access ports such as an effects loop and line-out to make interfacing easier.

@LonelyRocker

Ай бұрын

I LOVE access. Effects loops? 100%. The more routing the better. But amps trying to be modelers is a big mistake in my opinion. It's all marketing. And amp will never a be a modeler and those of us that love amps don't want them to be. What amps are you making?

@Jake-fo3rg

Ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker I came up with an amp based on the Trainwreck, which is essentially a VOX AC 30. I have 15 and 30 Watt versions, with an added gain boost, Effects Loop, Aux Input (for connecting to an MP3 player for adding backing tracks) and spring reverb. These are all-tube designs and have sold only a few to close friends. It is more expensive to build these than I first realized. Hard to see how to make a business out of boutique amps unless you have higher demand and can purchase parts in volume. However, I can proudly say mine are very high-quality builds with ample design safety margins that should last a lifetime. Thanks for asking!

@LonelyRocker

Ай бұрын

@Jake-fo3rg sounds awesome. Love the concept. Hope you find more players to enjoy your creation. Cheers!

I love my tube amp. My most expensive piece of gear and it sounds otherworldly. Unfortunately, these days I only use it for fun. Nothing beats playing in front of one. For songwriting and recording though it's only a Helix VST for me now. Why? It always sounds the same between sessions. I no longer have to worry about mics and placement. It cuts the workflow in half. I can find a sound after-the-fact with no hassle at all if I need to. But still, nothing beats standing in front of a good tube amp and cab. I'll always have it to fall back on if I need to. Good video

@xxczerxx

5 ай бұрын

What is the tube amp?

@FishloreJimson

5 ай бұрын

@@xxczerxx I have an Ampliphonix and Gain from Amplified Nation. Sort of a Bassman meets Plexi. I mostly stick to the Bassman side of it.

@bryanbrewer4272

5 ай бұрын

@@xxczerxx you need a "TUBE".

@Renshen1957

Ай бұрын

@@xxczerxxAn amplifier based on thermo-ionic valves aka vacuum tube preamp and power amps. This technology is superior to solid state in the the manner it distorts, in even number harmonics vs solid state which distorts in harsher odd number harmonics.

@Renshen1957

Ай бұрын

Modeling amps be it guitar or digital pipe organ sampled off the real organ, digital pianos, and of course the digital orchestral instruments, some are close some are not so close, and all are “no cigar.” Some sorta mimic, some are caricatures, most people with a good ear live can tell the difference.

I have two Marshall amps. One solid state and the other is tube. I also have a modeler with all my presets in it. One thing that I have noticed is, if I connect the modeler to the solid state amp, then connect it to the tube amp, the tones are very different. Even using the same models on both. The tones coming out of the tube amp sound so much better. I think that even if you are using a modeler like me, you should still invest in a tube amp if you want your presets to sound really good.

@timothymartin2137

5 ай бұрын

Tubes respond to different levels of input differently....low levels get no distortion and higher levels get progressively higher levels of distortion...this is natural ...it DOESNT happen in solid state...thats why tubes seem to be alive...the sound is constantly changing and morphing...where Solid State is stable and constant...THATS WHY JAZZ PLAYERS PREFER solid state!!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I use the hybrid model in my studio and find tube amps work really great with good modelers, especially when recording. High quality effects and good signal routing is a huge thing in a studio....And the amps thrive in that setup....with load boxes of course :)

@thorinbane

Ай бұрын

Johan segeborn did a piece on the minimoog. Now the software sounds good, no doubt, but the harmonics from the analog sounds so much better. The sustain and notes, even on a synth sound very different from old analog to new digital.

@052RC

6 күн бұрын

@@timothymartin2137 Actually, this happens in both tube and solid state amps. You overdrive a tube to distort by increasing the gain on the tubes in the preamp. When you increase the gain to where the tubes start to distort, the sound you get is called even order harmonics. And it sounds very good. If you remove the tubes and replace them with transistors and do the same thing, the sound you get from transistors is called odd order harmonics. This sounds terrible, and that's why its been taking a very long time to get solid state amps to sound good. Its extremely difficult to replicate what a tube does with transistors. I'm sure you've notices that solid state guitar amps tend to come with much higher power ratings than tube amps. Most people assume tube watts are more powerful than SS watts. Its actually the complete opposite. The real reason for the high output on SS amps is because they can't have the transistors being overdrive with gain. The more powerful and clean an amp is, the harder it is to make it distort. That's where digital comes in. Instead of making distortion in the analog domain, it gets taken care of in some type of dsp module before it goes to the analog preamp. In recent years, some manufacturers have figured out a way to "cheat". Instead of trying to get a SS amp to sound like tubes, companies like IK and Kemper sample and capture the sound of real tube amps, and then process that signal. Actual tubes are use to make the samples, and this makes it much easier for designers. When you think about it, if you are using a sampling dsp module, you're still listening to tubes.

@timothymartin2137

6 күн бұрын

@@052RC No...transistors are an on off thing...they dont distort gradually like tubes...(WHICH IS THE POINT I WAS MAKING!!!)...they are figuring ways to array transistors to make gain progressive..(and like you said..bypassing the distortion altogether with modeling)./...but with solid state and modeling...no matter how close you get to mimicking the way a tube reacts (and that is the goal both types of amps have)...you still have to change channels to get the full range of behavior out of the alternate methods...so for me tube wins...lol)I am sure that wasnt the point)

I am 74, grew up in tube world, studied electronics 2 years in high school, played guitar since 9 years old, studied music in college, was first Peavey/Ampeg/Marshall/Fender factory authorized service center for four years in South Florida. What you said is true. I coudl fill pages of talk and advice. Tube amps have been reduced in power except a few. Power supply capacitors can go bad over time, tubes become microphonic from being banged around with careless moving. Tube amps have tone and bottom end. Digital can be subject to voltage surges, most digital amps have little to no bottom end unless you are a metal player which usually want roaring bottom end, some digital amps have bottom end. The boutique amps now with 5-20 watts are overpriced because they are made in limited quantities, have to be miked. Having a mllion sounds in a digital amp with no bottom end is moronic and there are plenty because they are selling sounds not real tone. Yes, the markets are brutal, if you want to stay in business you have to downsize and change. Most amps are made in China or countries where labor is cheaper for corporate reasons. Todays factory workforce is not what it was in the 50', 60', 70's. Good luthiers are hard to find, it requires creative talent, tedious stick to it work ethics, dedication. They have to get paid. Countries with low labor can create knockoffs of American products and many are high grade for lower prices than American companies can market for given their high overhead. Years ago 60's & 70's the demand was hogh for big amps, 2x12's 4x12's double stacks, etc. Prices were low but musicians went crazy along with studio engineers in recording to create different sounds before the pedal craze and digital modeling hit markets. The cost of building tube amps is very high. Lower volume means higher prices for parts, assembly labor, advertising, insurance, keeping operating capital high enough to pay employees and costs and when markets dip or competition gets higher, you want to have enough to keep the lights on. I remember going to a music store in the early 60's, seeing a Les Paul Custom white SG body with 3 pickups. They were about $650.00. Builds on rhe guitars were near as perfect as humanly possible, low action, quality builds, lifetime guitars. Costs were low, skill was high, you got a lot for rhe money. Today, that same guitar may be $6,500 to $7,500 or more because that is what it costs today to get the same quality. I always wanted an L5C. It takes a master luthier 1 year to make that guitar. He has to get paid, A/C is on, insurance, prestocked woods in dryer rooms, assembly line costs and maintenance, paint equipment and painters, wiring crews, fret installers, engineers, planners, parts aquisition people, ,etc. Ir costs money. The L5C today is probably around $14,500 guessing. You lose money on that guitar to make it when you subtract costs and losses, equipment maintenance, overhead, etc, it all is expensive. I am amazed today that many of the old American names are still in existance. Wirhout really smart business minded operators, planners, marketers, designers able to woek as a team the ship can sink quickly and I have seen many go by the wayside. They made good products but something was missing in the formula of operations and with radical market and sales swings, things go south quickly. Fender, Gibson, Rickenbacher, are a few of the most copied guitars. Running a factory is difficult and competion, market swings and knowing when to market new products can be a nightmare. Investing in making, advertising, stocking a million retail stores, shipping costs with damaged in shipping always a headache- if the market changes and the product doesn't sell- it can be a hard hit to the company's bottom line and image. Today cosmetics is a big seller. Competion has lots of cosmetics and eye candy. Original designs such as Fender and Gibson have to pay a lot to attorneys that fight knockoff challenges constantly or lose their market. It requires a lot of work to make and sell good instruments. Maintaining consistent quality is also difficult and costly. Many tubes are being substituted today and the amps sound can be affected. I have a Fender Super Twin I bought new in the 70's. The two preamp tubes were 7025's and had higher gain. They are hard to find and using 12AX7's will work but there is a difference in sound and gain. Tubes are costly to manufacture, mica insulators are getting expensive and harder to get and purchase. Originally, for many years Magnavox built most of the tubes in the US in their Greenville, Tennessee plant. They had 23 acres under one roof. They stamped RCA, Fender, Sylvania, GE, etc. on the tubes and shipped them to the manufacturers. Ampeg had two 600 foot long assembly lines at that facility. One line was cabinets the other line built and wired amps. By the late 1970's, Ampeg started building hybrid amps and got a lot of faulty components in the preamp sections and amps were shutting down and had to have warranty replacements of bad components. It hurt their sales. SVT bass amps were amazing at 300 real watts. V4 guitar amps were good but again had some faulty circuit problems. Fender amps were always reliable and many players loved them. Being upside down, many Fender amps over time developed spitting resistors from heat cycles but could be found and changed. It is hard to say how long tube amps will live but costs keep going up. I was selling new 6L6 tubes for $5.50 in the mid to late 70's, now they are $25 to $30 and climbing. Three to 5 years from now they could double in price do to several factors. They were amazing creations but may see obsolescence becaue of costs and reduced parts availability. Tungsten filaments, mica and internal element quality can vary. Shorted output tubes can be death for a tube amp. Blown power and output transformers. I had seen and repaired SVT bass amps that went into meltdown and start on fire. Those amps were running about 650VDC on the plates and when a short from wornout output tubes happened the lights could be dimming. They had serious power and power supplies. Well, I could talk for hours but I will stop now and thanks for the good article. These are things young players need to think about as parts obsolescence and having an amp that doesn't work and no more parts. Same with car electronics, manufacturers abandon production after a few years and you are stuck with no spare parts from penny pinching lean manufacturing techniques. They only have parts for what was on the assembly line. Sad but true.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for sharing your story. I enjoyed reading that. Manufacturing is a tough, risky business and very exposed to external factors. That is why innovation is important. Not everything can be as it was and on some level we have to be open to embrace change. I hope there is a place for amps for the foreseeable future. Things can be cyclical but maybe the taste for real amps will grow again as more players discover guitar because of easily accessible tech. We can hope!!

It has always been about the experience. I don't think the listener has ever cared about the gear unless the listener is a musician. They mostly care if the volume is right and if they can clearly hear the vocal part and any key hooks.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I disagree. I for one have always loved to see what gear a player is using. Ok maybe not the masses but musicians love to compare notes.

@TheInfiniteFret

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker Thanks for calling me out, haha! Indeed I over-generalized. It is easy to become cynical these days considering how much the live music scene has changed over my lifetime (first live gig in the 90s). The non-musician members of the audience may not know gear specs, but most still have opinions about tone, though they might articulate their opinions in a different manner than the musicians in the crowd. I also overlooked the listener that is not a musician yet but later becomes one because they love the sound of a particular musician.

Interesting to hear you say that. As someone who started playing circa 1994, we truly didn't know what tube amps were. Amps were amps. We knew Peavey, Marshall, Vox. My friends dad had an old jazz tube amp. We hated it. It couldn't do distortion. The stuff at SamAsh and GC (when it opened) were all solid state (at least what we saw and could afford). The only pedals were Boss, a few from MXR, Dunlop wahs, Morley volume and some odds and ends. No one talked about "tone" like we do today. Why? Simply because there was no near-billion dollar marketing apparatus at work, as exists today. We turned on the amp and it sounded good. The neighbors hated it. Good enough for us. Not once did any of the few players in my circle even think about tone caps or treble bleeds. We just wanted to learn GnR, Nirvana, Metallica and Green Day songs. Even the magazines didn't discuss tone as they do today. Now it's all you hear. Telling kids who don't know intervals they need to "perfect their tone" is a joke. Thievery. Hey - tube amps are great. Fractal is better. So much easier and you can carry your entire rig in one trip. I will never go back to analog. Even for listening purposes. Hi-Res isn't as rich as analog but it's so close the human ear can't possibly tell the difference. The benefit of a tube amp, that almost-imperceptible squish you FEEL and the subtle coloring that comes along with tubes (aka: "warmth") no matter where you use them are only detectable at HIGH VOLUME. Truthfully, 95% of us will never get to play at such necessary volumes to experience actual high voltage sag in person or feel that "squish" for real. _Truthfully, the Fractal is 93 - 96% of the way there, and under 110dB, no one will detect the difference._ Even if you do stadium gigs, the FoH doesn't want volume. They want DI and they should. You might use stage volume, but it isn't necessary. Most bands are doing IEMs, and have been for decades. Unless you're the Beatles playing Shea Stadium with no PA, there is no need for high wattage amps, tubes, or any of that tone voodoo. The whole industry needs to shift to quieter amps. Tube distortion and "squish" without volume over 100dB or an Ox Box, etc. Built in attenuation and circuits clever enough to push tube distortion in a whisper bedroom setting. THAT is the market.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

A lot of people talk about "volume" and how a good amp has to be loud to sound good. That is also something I never thought about back in the 90s when I was gigging and it's not something I always think about now. Yes, amps do magical things when pushed but they have a volume knob for a reason. And with load boxes you can dime them to get all of that juicy saturation and harmonics while enjoying it at bedroom volumes. I have modelling gear too and love it but I would never sell real amps short just because of volume...

@jeffmancuso2715

3 ай бұрын

I remember being dumb enough to think I had to turn up my solid state Peavey Renown to get it to sound better.

@Da_Publick

Ай бұрын

​@@jeffmancuso2715You weren't wrong, you _did_ have to turn that thing up for it to sound good!

I know in 10 years i will still have my Marshall heads. I won’t have a quad cortex as good as it is.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Amen to that. You might be on QC #7 and still waiting for plugin support by then 😂😂😂😂

Such an incredibly balanced, nuanced view. Thank you!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Thanks so much! Glad you feel that way...I use both and just wanted to express a true concern I had...cheers!

Interesting observations and you are spot on in regards to the life cycle of digital products. I think we have a lot more options. The sweet spot for home studios I think is guitar->pedal board/effects unit->tube amp->cab & mikes simulator device->computer (daw)

I had an AX8 for 4+ years, sold it to my bassist and grabbed an FM9 turbo. Many gigs are direct with that…..but sometimes, I do bring out my ‘87 2204 (with a tube loop) and my small rack. Love the tubes 😍 when I can use them….

For recording there are true advantages to modelers that tube amps can't really compete with. But if you want the real feel, fun and joy of playing guitar then only a good tube amp and cab will give you that! Once you get use to play with an amp and cab at good enough volume then you know the difference! 🤘

@LonelyRocker

4 ай бұрын

Or do what I do and record with both!!! :)

I love VST for creating music, riff etc..Mock up versions pretty much,But, if i stay in that zone for a long time and i start playing on Tube Amp-oh boy, all of the sudden i dont know how to play :) Great one Dan!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! I wonder if my point was missed in this video. My concern is tube amps with digital components and the risk they pose on longevity for the amps.

@alekp6822

5 ай бұрын

Im sure there would be a tons of debates and rethinking as digital merging with analog word so progressively ..As a musician, I was kinda disappointed to see Metallica switching but thats not what fans care about , i guess@@LonelyRocker

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

@alekp6822 The amp world is not as certain as it once was. But I can tell you, any amp I buy going forward will ONLY be analogue. I love my digital gear for what it is but I’m keeping that separate. 😎

I recently added my vintage Axe-FX Ultra (a 16-ish year old device) to my rack in my studio and am enjoying playing through it these days... Ahh, those vintage digital tones! 😆

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Being sentimental with old new tech. That bends my mind into weird shapes 😂😂😂😂

@kalidesu

5 ай бұрын

If it works it's not going to age. Why not. They are plenty of people still into buying old digital 15 year old Zoom pedals for that 'sound'.

@afrost7465

5 ай бұрын

I run A/B comparisons with a Radial A/B/Y pedal. Axe/Fx setups are not that far off the tube mark. I play and enjoy both. I use a Mesa Boogie 50/50 for amping AxeFx, and old rack pieces that still have over-the-top tones like Rocktron VooDu Valve which has 1 12ax7 tube, Chameleon, and others. FUN in the first degree is the point and the end result! Ear protection is still important at home too!

@capnjames

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRockerunrelated but there’s people who purposefully want digital clipping in their mixes too 😂

@capnjames

5 ай бұрын

@@kalidesuthem zoom pedals are fire ngl

My friends and I who started playing in the 90s, the guitarists are all still using their first decent valve amp. I've friends who play Fenders, Peaveys, Marshalls, even Yamaha oddballs. It used to be you got a good amp, learned how to get the kinds of tones you liked from it, and you were set for life. As a bass player, I played through an old Trace Elliott combo, then moved to a Hartke because it had wheels and more power. I don't know if having access to so many different sounds, so early on, would just be a distraction to a new player now. I like amps, since picking up the guitar a decade ago I got a 1970s 50w master volume. It's far too loud and I love it.

@sansubr

5 ай бұрын

We live in a distraction economy. Companies make money only by distracting these days.

@capnjames

5 ай бұрын

Eh it’s easy to get distracted by the options but it’s also easy to just make a twin reverb preset and call it a day 😂 nice for headphone users as well

Is there others out there that can still just hear(feel) that tube sound? It to me still has that feel , it's a warm, honking, hollow but full , resonating in your body type blanket of goodness , like say in the No More Tears solo................. How say you out there? Am I off my rocker ? Stubborn? Too old? lol

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

You are bang on. The one thing modelers can never emulate is that feeling of trying to tame an amp and losing....Having fear and respect for a real amp is a thing and it makes a difference!

@Darth.Shredder

5 ай бұрын

Yes, "feel" and the way a tube amp pushes air can't be faked. My theory is that younger players who are raised on modelers won't relate or understand this. My theory is "feel" in general is becoming a lost art in playing. There are countless young virtuosos, including girls and pre-teens all over KZread who can mimic players like Yngwie without breaking a sweat. I often wonder if it's because younger generations are raised on complex video games and approach the guitar in a more practical way, as if it's a series of cheat codes lol. That being said, I'm seeing less and less "feel". You can simulate technique but not feel. Even bends are becoming things of the past.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Good points..added to that is newer players learning to jam on computers and recording on a grid. Diminished feel right there...

@ViviSectia

5 ай бұрын

​@@Darth.Shredder​Younger players aren't used to the sound of actual amps anymore. I remember seeing one of the amp sim companies commenting about how they got reports about a specific rectifier amp sim of theirs being broken because younger players were not used to the sound of loose amps.

@Da_Publick

Ай бұрын

I'm a 'hard clipping man,' myself. 🤣

Cool video man! Interesting points for sure...

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! Had to get it out ;)

the bigger concern is PCB mounting of tube mounts and potentiomiters etc . if you go valve then go for something point to point wired .

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Very good point....some mp makers try to cut costs...need to know what you are buying....

@micahwatz1148

5 ай бұрын

From what ive gathered its more of a concern with tube combos. Because with combos you have the tubes underneath the board cooking it the entire time its on and running hot. When the tubes are above the board all that heat is allowed to escape upwards, not into the pcb

@jasonsansome5579

5 ай бұрын

The big problem is that the components are soldered to the PCB using a flow soldering technique, so the component legs are not up to temperature so the joint is flawed to begin with. To re flow the joints when they fail, you have to remove the whole circuit board, which obviously adds to the labour cost to the customer. The other thing guaranteed to give an amp tech a bad day is the practice of glueing the components to the board, it's always a worry getting them out. A hand built amp can also use whatever quality of tone capacitors you like, almost always better than a mass produced PCB amp.

@calyptratus187

3 ай бұрын

How would you know if its wired this way? Been doing some research and as far as I can see, most tube amps have QC issues so I'm left with nothing to choose from. 🤷‍♂️

This is one of the reasons I bought a Helix. I had a Digitech 2112 and when the screen went dead after 20 years, they didn’t make components anymore. I figured that if I was gonna stay in the digital world, it would behoove me to buy a product from a company with some staying power. Line 6 has been around since the 90’s and what’s more is that they’re now owned by Yamaha, which of course is gigantic and well established. I wound up wearing out the joystick on my Helix because I was a dumbass and didn’t use HX edit. I had to get it fixed. Luckily, because of the ubiquity of Yamaha repair shops, it wasn’t super difficult to get it done. It sounds great and doesn’t everything I need a rig to do.

@LonelyRocker

4 ай бұрын

Line 6 products have shown to be quite resilient and having the network Yamaha has been able to provide certainly helped to build longevity for their products. There are so many of those products out there I think it will be in Yamaha's best interest to continue supporting those products even when they introduce new ones...especially their flagship products like the Helix...

Earned a sub simply because this is such an important topic that needs to be covered, and I would argue the economics of this industry need to be spoken about to musicians. There's a reason this is called the music "business". Companies in this industry, especially established behemoths, have a mandate to sell product, not musical products. Our culture in North America has somehow accepted planned obsolescence as just the way things are, and many youtubers are aware of the issues you've discussed, and *continue to make money off of their audiences without raising these concerns*. It may be impolite, but considering the money at the stake + the ease at which people are taken advantage of, this needs to be combated. Additionally, disposable gear is so unbelievably damaging to the environment, that if you consider yourself someone even remotely concerned about the planet we live on, an easier-to-service product with a long shelf life, built to last, is even more important. Of course tubes break, but you just need to replace the tube, not the whole amplifier. Support your local builder if you can. Save up a few extra bucks and get something that'll last you a life time. Carr, Pizzolato, TopHat, Hi-Tone, Germino etc. all make tremendous product made to last. Thank you for the service to the musical community. Refreshing to hear real issues discussed in the Geartube universe

@LonelyRocker

Ай бұрын

Thanks so much and thanks for sharing your thoughts. I really felt I had to say something. An amp has always been a special acquisition and I hate seeing them cheapened because modern tech desires “demand” it. It’s a mistake that will come back to haunt people in the future. I’ve embraced modelers for what they do but my amps are staying pure!

The new Revv G50 looks pretty sweet! I’ve owned lots of great tube amps over the years. Eventually sold them all off and went modeler several years ago. From a gigging perspective it’s hard to beat the convenience.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I love Revv gear. Yes, the other side of the argument is cost savings and convenience. If you make money using a modeler it will more than pay for itself in convenience over time. So replacing it when the next great one is released is just the cost of doing business...

I believe that the amplifiers of the big brands assembled on PCBs are disappearing, while small companies that build quality handwired amplifiers are making their way.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I certainly hope so. If amps are going to remain distinguished from modelers it has to because they are built to last. Quick and cheap doesn’t cut it with amplifiers.

I used digital technology in the 90's (Peavey Tubefex). By 2004 the two units I have malfunctioned (within the wafer layers(pre-CPU era)) so now I have 2 boat anchor rackmounts. Gone to Tube amps and pedals from then on, lesson learnt.

@LonelyRocker

Ай бұрын

Now you're talking. Hard lesson learned but you are on a good path now :)

Great discussion, and I’m with you. I don’t like this new hybridization trend of combining digital tech with tube amps. Mainly from a maintenance perspective. I want to keep my tube amps simple, so the repairs and maintenance are less expensive. 😆

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I'm with you. In fact after all this I think I've decided to move one of my hybrid amps while it's still in great condition and get something more pure...maybe a new amp on the channel soon!! :)

1st and most important ," keep it simple". A player will spend too much precious time trying to find a sound they can use instead of actually using this time to practice and listen to music. Dropping/ travelling and wiring the modellers will cause them to malfunction, the player ends up depending on a modeller to generate a "unique" effect and when they go wrong you will end up throwing them out of the window. I did like a small combo that Fender experimented with a "Super-Champ x2 , a valve amp and programable digital pre-amp modeller, it took me 2 years to get it to sound usable( ( New speaker, hours of tweeking) now I can't do without this little "Hybrid" which I almost sold. Stick to basic designs for an amp and get pedals which at-least are replaceable and the feel a good valve amp gives the player really is impossible to emulate digitally, it's just too special . These modellers are useful but in essence they are toys to have fun with. I suppose if you have never experienced even a 5 watt valve amp played clean and with a biit of volume you probably would'nt know why they still build valves. Better a small 15watt 10" portable combo with a modest pedal board will always beat any modeller just for the feel.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Great advice...players can get weighed down under too much choice...and these are tones they don't actually create...thanks for chiming in!

Really good points in this. I sold all my amps recently and bought a Helix product and its AWESOME! But its not “Tangible”. I dont want digi in my Tube amp either. To clarify: I do like the direct jack in some new amps but I dont want modeling in a Diezel or anything. I WILL be purchasing a Tube amp or two again soon.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed this. A built in DI does come in handy and you can still use the speaker out separately anyways. I have DIs built into 3 of my amps but I prefer to use an external one anyways. Hope you grab a great amp soon!

I have had (and still do) tube amps throughout the years. Drive pedals have gotten so good now that I've gone to building pedal boards (15 of them now) based around mini pedal board mounted amps. I have five Moorer Baby Bomb 30s, a JOYO Bluejay, a TC Electronic BAM200, and a Seymour Duncan Power Stage 170. I'd challenge anyone to blind A/B sound comparison challenge anytime.

@LonelyRocker

Ай бұрын

It is truly a great time to be a guitar player. So many great options. I just think digital products should be digital and analog should be analog. No hybrids!

Metallica recently stated in an article I read that 50% of the time they use their digital Marshall amps at live concerts. I've heard and played both tube and digital. I currently have a 100watt Marshall ½ Stack, 4 12's that's digital and kicks ass! I can play at 100% power for hours without blowing amp. And the sound with or without my floor monitor is flipping insanely awesome. It's truly up to the player.

Just like almost every single ss amp ever made the digital modelers are going to last forever without ANY maintenance. While i see your point with tube amp manufacturers combining technologies with digital aspects,(which is a terrible idea) these modelers will never need maintenance. They will never need to go to a repairman. Even if something does happen to one of these modelers within its lifespan you will be able to buy another one for a small portion of the cost of the tube amps that seem to just keep going up in value. Modelers have been doubley accepted, you said it yourself. With that being said they are going nowhere. I for one love both tube amps and modelers. We have needed, for a long time, something to balance the ridiculous markup universe and im so very greatful even it is going to take some time. Its already started.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I'm with you. I enjoy both also. Digital tech has allowed me to build a great home studio. But Digital products fail. I have had a couple go down without warning and I couldn't fix them. And my main point was simply not liking digital tech inside a tube amp...which you agree. I think we agree!! ;-)

Tube amps vs solid state is kind of like the quartz crisis in watches, if you know about that. There is a trend of all of these cheap easy to manufacture by the numbers devices but at the end of the day there is a core tube market that will always remain.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Yes, great reference. The key is distinguishing well manufactured products verses cheaper substitutes....Cheap PCB amps will crap out before digital amps ;)

@SeattleMartin

5 ай бұрын

Yes, but that market is very small, and likely getting smaller every day, with us Boomers aging out of playing with arthritis and other issues.

Thanks for making this video. I started out with a Line6 Pod as a kid, then much later got a Kemper. I only just finally got a tube amp, and the VHX actually really appealed to me with its built-in effects, cab emulation, cabless operation capability, and ability to save settings while still being a 'for-realsies' tube pre and power amp. Since I came *from* the modeling world for all my playing history, the digital features felt more comforting to me, and I felt like I could probably be more successful recording with it than something like your JCM 900. While I LOVE my VHX, I think it would have been maybe a better idea to go with a Herbert and a load box (for a similar total price!). Then I could explore other tube amp options in the future without buying the same digital capabilities over and over again.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

My pleasure. The POD was also my first digital :amp" though I already had my Marshall then. I'm curious about the VHX. Is the digital part of the amp easily bypassed? I'm sure if it ever wen wrong the rest of the amp would function as a normal amp but I'm curious about that part.

@monkeyplusplus

5 ай бұрын

Sure, you can just not put effects on it when you use it. I don't know if there's a signal path it always goes through that would be broken if the digital board went bad, but from what I can tell that part is discrete and could be replaced. However, if they ended up not making that part anymore you'd be outta luck. So ultimately, it might be better to get something more purely analog and use a separate digital unit for the maximum flexibility and future proofing. That said - I'd be willing to bet the smaller board mounted components will long outlast the big giant caps and stuff, let alone the tubes. I've decided to not worry about it and just make the best music I can with it :)

The main problem with modeling equipment is that it is not aware of the sound reproduction equipment (actual amp/cab or PA) and the room it is being used in. To solve this problem, it would be necessary to use a high-quality reproduction system and perform a room calibration. Done wrong, modeling is only a fancy pedal.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I agree. The simple relationship of a guitar and an amp is so reactive where a modeler is predefined.

This is one of the reasons I love companies like Suhr. They are taking inspiration from classic designs and improving upon the core circuitry while retaining serviceability. I'm a Tonex user, but the Bella is on my bucket list not only because it sounds great, but because anyone with a soldering iron and a meter could fix it in the rare situation that it were to go down.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I LOOOVVVEEEEE Suhr. I have a Classic T Deluxe Limited Edition. The craftsmanship in that guitar is stunning. And the Suhr Reactive Load handles all of my amp DI recording. Next I need a Suhr amp for sure...hope you get yours! BTW...TONEX is great. I cover a lot of TONEX on this channel too....in fact I have a TONEX video on the schedule :)

It occurs to me that many of the young guys may have never heard or even seen the physical models of these amps in person. So they won’t know what it sounds like in a room, they only know what a model sounds like in headphones or monitors. If that’s good or bad, I don’t know. I guess it could be liberating because they won’t get obsessed with finding a VST that is an exact replica of a 5150 they never even seen in person. It’ll just be “Does it sounds cool?” Yes or no.

@LonelyRocker

3 ай бұрын

That's a GREAT point! It occurred to me many that argue for modelers clearly have never played through an amp but I never thought about it in those terms. they base their sound on what they ehar i headphones and not what the actual amps do...well played!

Used 6505+ for classic rock cover band for years with good results. Using a combo hybrid amp now, line 6 bogner valve. For smaller venues just a line 6 pod go, with a small powered speaker. Did have my first pod go fail after 18 months, but got a free replacement!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Good to embrace a hybrid solution in this age. Great way to go!

@paulgordo7505

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker yes the tubes seem to help with the tone!

Great take. I'm all digital currently with a Boss Katana and a Pod Go. I've been looking at tube amps but would want all the convenience of my digital stuff (line out with cab/mic emulation). After seeing this I think I'll steer away from any one tube amp that does it all. Modular all the way. Get a separate load box. Get a separate DI solution, etc

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

That's the way to go. And be weary of budget tube amps that are made with cheap PCBs. I combine real amps, load boxes and modelers in my studio with AMAZING results. But the tube amp you decide to get should be special and it will be a joy for many years to come...

Lot of dinosaurs here, I'm one too, so go easy on the flames. But I'm also a hybrid, I have always had my first Fender Princeton that everyone laughed at back in the day, "get a stack" was the mantra. Now they're gold. But I also bought a Roland JC-120 for loud projection of my pedals, SG, etc. It's super clean and pushed pedals very consistently. I also have a 100W Peavey rig that's great fun, but less consistent, I've had tubes go bad and speakers. The Roland just works, never changes. Bright and clear. But I'm a folkadelic rhythm and prog player mainly and maybe if i were a shredder I would lean harder on tubes. But my Roland has never needed to visit the shop. My Fender and Peavey both have several times. Regarding the planned obscelescence of the digital devices, dead on Sir. Plugins, PCs, software anything is outdated as soon as it's installed. Every time you boot you risk entering update hell and wasting hours just getting things working. With fixed hardware, things are much better. But. If it has any custom chips in it, we're at the mercy of those firms too. I own ableton and FL Studio, but I'm done with the trendy virtual stuff. I like the Spark, got one and they're previous PG amp head virtual amp, works great, but no longer supported. $500 new, now with maybe half? What's the point? The big stacks are great fun to play, but not to lug around. And they're kind of two or three truck ponies. If you're a working cover band, like most semi-pro musicians, you usually need something like a Katana that can play a lot of styles, or a modeler or multi-fx into the mixer. It's just too much work liugging big amps around for low paying gigs. The public doesn't care what you play.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

The big win for all of this is choice. Digital gear is easier to acquire and can satisfy needs across a wider user base but doesn't retain it's value. If you still want a tube amp, if you acquire a well built one you can enjoy it for a long time. And in my case, a hybrid solution serves me very well for recording. Good times to be a guitarist.

All of my analog stuff from the 80s and early 90s still works, and in most cases, has increased in value. That said, these days I mostly just use my little Katana 50 and a laptop because they are so convenient. Unfortunately, both the Katana amp and the laptop PC are basically disposable items these days and retain almost no value.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

That pretty much nails the differences....

2 words "Planned Obsolescence"

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

You are 1000000% spot on. I just referred to that in a previous comment. Just not as succinctly like you just did 😎

@giulioluzzardi7632

5 ай бұрын

3 year span..maximum.

A very valid topic of discussion.

That's why I leave my precious Tube amps at home and bring my cheap Tonex with a few pedals to a gig. They sound good with the right captures and a good monitor system, okay you miss the tube amp feeling, but that is something you have to get used to. The audience will not hear the difference. If it breaks , that's sad, but it is replaceable for not too much money. We live in a throwaway society and that's a shame !!! New law regulations in our city commands that we are not allowed to play louder then 95db . If a pub owner gets caught they take his permission to organize live music and if they measure 96db it's goodbye permission....So every pub holder is buying a calibrated limiter and put it on their PA systems. A tube amp at 95 db sounds dull, nowhere near its sweet spot, and has no advantage in comparison with a modeler with an FRFR. A lot of cities are forced to go in a other direction because of these law restrictions. You'll see more and more silent stages and more and more proffesional artists are playing with in-ears and no amps anymore. A few weeks ago I saw Mateus Asato and Guthrie Govan with a Kemper and in-ears...They bring their USB stick and load it into the Kemper and off they go. If you see what the costs of new tubes are then you're gonna think twice. Electro Harmonix exports less Tubes due to the export ban of Mr.Putin. I think Tube amps will be more of a studio thing and for playing at home with loadboxes and such. That whole hybrid amp thing with digital stuff and tubes is temporary IMHO, it's a trend. I would never buy that. The good old times are gone unfortunally.

@jsalvatori

5 ай бұрын

As a venue audio tech, I welcome and love quiet stages. The less stage volume, the better I can make your band sound to the audience

@marcohermans3207

5 ай бұрын

@@jsalvatori I agree with that. Going digital an advantage for a audio engineer. But when I perform with my own punk rock band at a larger stage I prefer the raw organic punchy tube amp sound. It's a feel thing. When I perform with my blues band my Fender Super Reverb has much more dynamic range which is important for my guitar playing because I work a lot with my guitar volume knob.When I play with a cover band in a pub with a lot of different sounds I prefer digital and Tonex gives me that.

@jsalvatori

5 ай бұрын

@@marcohermans3207 with the live amps there are tricks to help. Side wash instead of pointing the amp straight at the crowd. Let us throw a packing blanket over it. Angle it up so you're using it like a monitor. Etc. The louder the audience hears your amp, the harder I have to push everything else to get it balanced, and at some point I stop trying because it's dangerous to the crowd, and to me. I wear hearing protection when I go to shows, but I can't when I'm mixing. So my shows are kept to a safe volume based on duration.

@marcohermans3207

5 ай бұрын

@@jsalvatori , we use these clearsonic amp shields to protect the audience in the front rows going deaf. Our soundguys know what they are doing . We tried the new Fender Tonemaster Super Reverbs at our blues shows but there was something missing in the depth and the organic nature of these modeling amps at stage volume. We get complaints from our audience so we went back to the tube Super Reverbs. Between a Tube amp and a guitar player is a connection, that is still missing from their digital counterparts but I have to say that it's becoming better and better with every generation of these digital devices.

The goal these days is simply to make a product life cycle very short. You need to love the product and want to buy a new version every 1-2 years ideally. Look at the mobile phones market as an example and that trend can be seen everywhere for years now. We stopped building products that supposed to last for years. Business must sell more and more. That's the ultimate goal.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

You’re right. It’s all revenue driven. Pride of workmanship is a thing of the past for many. That’s a shame. I will always support companies who make great products designed to last.

Imagine if amp modeling had happened way back when the tweed Fender Deluxe was first produced, and that model was based on the intended level and settings of the day, that is, clean, avoiding distortion, since distortion was to be avoided by the original design parameters. Had the model been based on what the Deluxe was designed to do, the model would never have considered intentional distortion to be within the model, so no matter what one did with the amp based on the model, it would not distort because said distortion was not part of the model. As we all know, the sound of a distorting tweed Deluxe is as iconic as the sound of a snare drum or the shape of a Stetson hat, and that distorted bloom of harmonics would never have been realized had players not taken the Deluxe beyond the design intention and established the distortion produced as an intentional characteristic.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Very good point. Analogue gear allowed players to experiment with the science of sound. There is no real tone without real amps..then and now...

@jasonbone5121

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker Even a modeller requires an amp if you want to hear any sound. There is no getting away from owning an amp as a guitarist. I own many modellers and they are great for recording, but suck for jamming with my friends.

@whatarefriends4

5 ай бұрын

Very well said

I personally think it depends on how critical the digital component is to the functionality of the tube amp as a whole. For instance, if the cab simulated outputs of the Revv amp went out, you could still use the power amp output and it pretty much becomes your conventional tube amp. The diezel amp is concerning, because you have a screen that’s needed to navigate the amp controls. Lately I’ve been realizing that if you want to make investments in audio equipment that will last a long time and won’t depreciate in value, analog is the way to go.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I'm with you 100%. I actually use the speaker out of my REVV into a Suhr Reactive Load. I don't use the internal load anymore. Revv is a great brand and I do believe the DI component is independant of the amp circuit. But my HK is all tech and PCBs. I may need to think about flipping that one now while it's still in great shape ;)

I’ve found that most guitarists are not even familiar with the number of great non-modeling solid state amps out there. The standard answer most guitarists I’ve met give for solid state amps is Quilter, Roland JC120, and the Peavey Bandit. Solid state amps like the 80’s series Marshall Lead 100 Mosfet (and the well known Lead 12), the fairly new (last 11 years or so) AMT Stonehead SH-50-4, the older Pearce G2r, Gallien Krueger 250ML and RL, Ampeg VH140c, Marshall 8100 Valvestate like Billy Gibbons used for awhile and groups in the 90’s like Prong, Death, Static X, Meshuggah, and Mudvayne, Hughes & Kettner Black Spirit 200, the well liked Orange Crush Pro CR120 and newer Super Crush 100, the newer HiWatt Crunch series like the Crunch 150r and 350r, the brand new Laney Lead Top and Dual Top amps, the well liked Randall RG, EG amps - these are all relatively inexpensive used and even new. Of course lots of people love the Quilters too, and the Peavey Transtube bandit and the Transtube Supreme head are all good too and the 70’s solid states are even still great (400 series, 260 series) and can even get Plexi-like sounds (check out Johan Segeborn demoing a 400). The list of good solid state amps is actually quite big but most are unaware or played some horrible Peavey from the 80’s with the saturation knob or Crate or Gorilla and think all solid states are like those. My AMT Stonehead SH-50-4 I actually prefer over my Bogner Atma all tube amp. Best solid state I’ve ever played and it’s around $700 new. They make a rack mount 100w version too. I like digital modeling and own some modelers, but simple analog solid state non-modeling amps last a long time if you get some quality ones and amp techs can still work on them easy enough. Hybrid amps are still great too. I love my Marshall 3203 Artist - that solid state 80’s equivalent of a JCM800 series preamp and a 30 watt EL34 power section. Slayer used them for awhile before the regular JCM800’s - lots of bands did and they fit perfect on a Marshall 1965 series 410 with the G10L-35’s that came with them in the 80’s. I have tube amps too, but I don’t always reach for them and could run out of tubes tomorrow and not be phased at all. I actually haven’t turned on my 50 watt Plexi clone since buying a Lion 68 digital modeling pedal too, so very happy with some digital modeling, tube amps, solid state amps, and analog modeling. I like it all because I kept an open mind about technology used to get my sounds. Also analog modeling is quite a great sound and I prefer it to most digital modeling. Main rig is a Black Widow Audio Designs MGP-1A Analog Modeling Preamp that uses real tubes (4x Tung Sol 12ax7’s ), real analog circuits, and Venum modeling from Black Widow Audio Designs. 18 preamp models/channels of some of the best amps ever made. I use an Axiom Effects PAE-1 Power Amp Emulator with it. All analog pedal with some of the very best tube power amp emulation I’ve ever heard or felt playing. Really dynamic response and controls for negative feedback, Bias, PI Gain, power tube type, rectifier tube (or SS rectifier) type, switch for cathode bias/fixed bias, switch for push-pull/single-ended operation, Master output and Power knob for headroom in 5w to 100w settings, internal flyback voltage control, internal dip switches for impedance setting - analog modeling the tube power amp. I actually replaced two real tube power amps (EL34 and 6V6) and two attenuators with two PAE-1 pedals last year. Between the MGP-1A and the PAE-1, no digital modeler I’ve heard can touch the realism of the modeling. So tube vs digital modeling may be seen as the only choices but really there are so much more if you look. I do prefer real cabs live and IR’s for recording or mix of real cabs and Cab Sims for live playing.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

No doubt...there are great alternatives...thanks for sharing your "GUIDE"

I like the hybrid style like the Revv G20 so you have the sound and feel of a tube amp when you want it but you can plug in and use a quality DI. I think these days that many players aren't thinking in terms of repairability. We have cell phones, TV's, laptops, game consoles and they all have an expected lifespan. Planned obsolescence. We have a whole generation raised in an era where we don't even have right to repair in many cases. So the idea of a guitar amp as an investment or something to pass down or only needs repairs isn't even in the thinking. And then when the pros realize that you can get a consistent sound every night and carry a fraction of the gear while losing maybe 10% of the mojo it's a no brainier. And once you step into the digital realm the diversity of sounds is amazing. People don't tend to want or buy expensive large tube amps when you can get something close enough for a fraction of the price. Why buy a 4k SLO when Neural makes a plugin for 100$? I'm sure the original is better but is it 3900$ better? And you never have to repair it, replace tubes, worry about volume, fear it will get stolen or destroyed. I love my tube amps but it's hard to resist the combination of price, convenience and options.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Some very good points here but where we win is with choice. The definition of the word "value" has evolved when it comes to gear has radically changed. And the needs of players have evolved to reflect this change. But with choices players never had before it can bring solutions to a wider collection of guitar players. And with more guitar players, we all win....

@TNTales

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker agreed. I love seeing a new generation of players emerge now

I love my tube amps. But I also enjoy my Helix which I use into tube power, used as a preamp into real cabs. Which can sound and feel really good. I think there can be a happy medium.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

100%. I do that in my studio with real amps, fractal and Helix. But I know my amps will be here well past these modelers...maybe even longer than me! :)

Everyone deserves the opportunity to own and play a great real tube amp.

@LonelyRocker

2 ай бұрын

100% Agree!!!

It depends on the type of music one plays. I am an old school R&B player, I embrace newer technology, I have been playing guitar since the early 60s. At this point I am quite happy with my Tone King Imperial MK ll. It will probably be my last amp.

@LonelyRocker

4 ай бұрын

That's a great amp...I'm sure it serves you well...

Great video I really enjoyed it. I couldn't agree with you more it's so important to build a product that's going to last. I'm definitely not a big fan of digital plugins or modeling. I'm proud that our amps are without circuit boards and built like a tank. For me it's extremely frustrating to spend good money on something that's going to fail or need repair in a short amount of time. That's why stereo tube amps are the best! 🎸

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it! We just really need to know what we are buying and have to avoid fads. I have found a place for modelers in my studio alongside my tube amps but I know they won't be forever. Your amps look awesome! Would love to try one sometime!

@bradleystereoguitaramplifi9616

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker Thank you very much! If you're ever up in Northern California just give me a call. We'd love to have you anytime!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

You never know!!! Been a while since I was in California but I've been there many times....let's keep in touch. Can you email me? My addy is on my about page...

I can certainly agree with the voiced concerns about all the hybrid digital-tube amps. I keep the two almost entirely separate. All my amps are hand-wired and fairly simple circuits. I leave the digital magic to pedals (relatively cheap and easy to sell) and computers (constantly replacing/upgrading anyways for all aspects of their use, not just for music).

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Good strategy. I’m seriously giving thought to flipping my hybrid amps to something potentially more reliable.

@TheInfiniteFret

5 ай бұрын

Thanks =) Great topic and video, BTW! One hybrid approach I enjoy is combining one or more hand-wired tube preamps with power amp modeling (with real cab or with speaker sim/IR). That way I reduce the weight and expenses of the tube amp power section, and I am in the ballpark on tone and feel. I don't play live anymore, but it has been fun around the house. The downside, of course is the inability to save settings for quick recall. Even with amp sims, I use a Sarno Revelation as my guitar DI instead of my interface Hi-Z input. @@LonelyRocker

Well I also have to use both. I like Marshall JMC with a Helix for effects, but take a look at the Mezzabarba amplification. Now that's a bad boy.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I do that too...great workflow..especially in the studio. OOOOOOh...I have my eyes on a Mezza..maybe they will notice my channel :)

The trend has been here and Your right on point! Take the Bogner Spider Valves, which were actually great if You take Your time with it! I saw that Diezel and thought Wow a touch screen version! I’m waiting for the tube amp that You can lock Your iPad into lol

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Ha!! There has been gear designed to host iPads...what a waste of money. New iPad doesn't fit? Oh, can we interest you in our updated model? NAH!!!!!!

@dbowens1977

5 ай бұрын

Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister 40. You can control with the iPad. It’s all tube.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I have one. He’s saying new. That amp has been out for a few years.

Very true... they are also multiple products that are dependent on a computer or a mobile device. The lifecyle of those are going to be even shorter... The day the OS of the computer evolves, the app running the device might not follow and you are basically stuck...

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

GREAT POINT! I'm surprised I didn't mention that because I've had concerns about that too. I've dabbled in some of that stuff but now that I have standalone modelers here my amp purchases will be straight analogue with no unnecessary digital components...and I'm sticking to that!

@vincelupone

5 ай бұрын

This is exactly what happened with Source Audio pedals. They were meant to work with a phone app connected through a headphone jack.

@johanarens9798

5 ай бұрын

I have been burned with my Apogee Gio, this is a footswitch control surface. Apogee just said, you know, Apple did change the protocol so the Gio is no longer supported with MacOS version x or later. Instead of investing some time fixing the firmware.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I should do a follow up and talk about this stuff...

@deshawn4077

5 ай бұрын

Yes @@LonelyRocker

You bring up great points. I am almost 49. I have been getting by with cheap modelers but it's time to get a real tube amp. I am borrowing a dsl100h. I will never play a modeler again. Now the question is, DSL20HR or spend a lot more and get point to point marshall. Like you mentioned, it should last a life time..

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I just think guitar players are missing out if they don't experience the guitar to amp experience. I love digital products. they add so much capability to my studio but as you've noted a great amp is for life. As far as what to get...well that's between you and yours but I hope you grab an awesome one!

@thorinbane

Ай бұрын

I would suggest getting an off brand that does Marshall like overdrive. In Canada you can get a used Traynor ycs50 for 500. It is PCB but a really amazing amp. Electro Harmonix reissued the mig 50 for half the price of any Marshall jcm800 new or used. But if name brand is important, just get the Marshall.

I've taken the hybrid approach, digital modeling pedals into the effects return of a tube amp. Mostly for more variety because my amps only have 2 channels. And honestly, your audience won't know the difference in a mix.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

That's a great solution. I have a hybrid setup for recording and it works really well...

Thanks!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Hey Thanks so much! Much appreciated. Best to you!

The main issue with tube amps is initial cost in most cases for home users, your JCM900 at home requires an attenuator, so buying that amp today is going to cost you, for discussion sake, 1000$, you have to add a good attenuator so 500$ more. You cannot play with headphones even after all that money, this is today's reality, a 100w tube amp in an apartment is just stupid. For 500$ you have a decent modeler that does it all. Consumerism has also caught up with guitar players things are not made to last and to be repairable now.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Very valid. And I wasn't suggesting real amps are a better solution for everyone. Listen, digital gear makes my studio possible. It wouldn't exist if it wasn't for digital products. But I know the digital gear and software will likely become obsolete. I spent over 2000 dollars on Waves plugins and I got tired of them asking me to re-up with their update plan every year so I said screw it. I updated my computer and none of those plugins work anymore unless I agree to pay another annual fee for plugins I already paid for. This is the worst of what digital gear offers. On the flip side..modelers have brought amp tones to players that might never had had the opportunity to play them. And that is a great thing. Just take care of that gear and hope you never need to repair it :)

You are so right! Of course modern modelers can sound _REALLY_ great! No question about that, but all those little computers with its proprietary ICs and of course proprietary software on it can't be easily repaired. Often it can not be repaired AT ALL because manufacturer can't support them forever and they also depend on the modern IC market. Personally I would never buy a modeler for anything else except for quick studio sessions or situations in which weight is a concern. You can not develop a "relationship" with an isntrument which is a bunch of digital waste in near future. That is all due to the custom ICs and firmware... Not so much with "digital" ICs itself, since there are many which are produced over decades!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! I’m glad someone in the know agrees with my position. 😎😎😎

Stuff like tonex, Kemper profile players will need external fx, midi control ect.. add that all up, you could buy a great amp that keeps its value much better. One of the best options is to use modelers for fx and a real tube amp. Just my opinion.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Precisely what I'm doing here in my studio and lots of content coming around that...stay tuned!

@BlazonStone

5 ай бұрын

Kemper player does have a good amount of effects included If somebody only needs reverb, Tonex is perfect

My fender Mustang is an example. You see in video games that don't keep servers online, or how UPlay lost all the data for Ubisoft games...anything that has an app has a limited lifespan as new versions of the os make them redundant. If I go buy a 68 Traynor hand wired amp, it can be rebuilt with parts off a shelf. I can not go fix my mustang from 2000s if it has software issues. I had a Digitech RP50 that acted up and basically became a brick as it was more to repair than to buy a newer better unit.

@LonelyRocker

Ай бұрын

Bang on! Digital stuff can be great but your comment highlights the risks and limitations. Max it out while it works! :)

I surely prefer puristic tube amps. No modeling is going to give me the tube sag, the entire feel of playing just the rather new Orange OR30 I own since recently, for example. And it’s not even a responsive amp, but it forms the sound so beautifully and pure, I don’t think any modeling will ever give me this specific sensation. And not just that, add a 1960BX with stock Greenbacks for really amazing and very lively speaker breakup on top, which produces a random type of fuzz/distortion I never heard from any pedals or modeling yet, analog or digital. Pure bliss of the very special kind, you’ll never find this type of sound anywhere outside of physical tubes and physical speakers doing their job right.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I agree 100% on the purity of the relationship between a guitar and a real amp and I will always play through Amos for as long as I am able. But modelers have their place and do provide solutions to those that just can’t play through amps. But I hope a,ps are here for the long haul. Guitar wouldn’t be the same without them.

I am just a 'weekend warrior' so my choices in amplification are different than that of a professional. The venues that I play tend to be small and are getting smaller and fewer.I love my Marshall and pedal board and that is really my preferred sound but in many cases it is just too loud to use in smaller venues. A tube amp sounds the best when you are 'pushing' the output tubes. That is the sound of classic rock. I need something that can replicate that sound and a lower volume. Today I am using my Boss Katana MKII 50 for the most part. It is lightweight and easy to carry plus I can get a great tone at a lower volume. If I play and outdoor gig I can always take out my Marshall. I am seriously thinking of getting a Boss GX100 which can be run directly through the front of house. This would be a very versatile rig that allows for a multitude of amp models and effects and is cheap enough that if it were to get damaged or stolen it could be replaced.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

The good thing is we have choices now to suit more players. I have embraced digital products too and love what they offer. I just think we need to be realistic. Amp modelers might not last for every but they pay us back in convenience. I have a full video on the gX100 on my channel..check it out!

It is alarming how much software stuff are temporary and I don't think we realise the extent of it yet... App enabled gadgets are pretty cool now but it will become a nighmare... I had this issue this week when I took out a drone I bought 3 years ago. Brand new piece of hardware that has lost over 50% of its features because the app is not on the app store anymore... Developper need to pay to key their app up to date, but why would they do it if they won't make money for that product...business wise, its the logical outcome, but consumer wise, we are doomed. So like you said, software stuff are just not an investment. Glad I still have my old 5150.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Tell me about it...I have a Gimbal..same thing. They won't update the software to work on newer phones. They want you to buy a new gimbal...It works perfectly fine...app doesn't....terrible....

I have played on Tube and solid state amps since the 60s. I even have a modeling amp now but I'll take my Classi 30 tube amp over all of them. Portable, sounds great and takes pedals well. I really don't need an amp that tries to imitate 30 other amps and cabinets. Probably the ultimate amp would be a Boss tube amp with the GT-100 multieffects built in.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I guess you have to really play tube amps to really love them. Modelers cheat. They are not amps. They are amps plus multi-effects. But together they can make magic :)

Interesting topic, but in my experience there is no right or wrong because at the end of the day you’re supposed to be making music and whatever amp you choose just has to sound good and the person playing it has to be able to play, whether a amp has a tube or not won’t matter, the purpose is still to make music, when you hear a great song it just sounds good to you and if it has a good guitar sound to you that’s what matters

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Of course. I have embraced both digital and analogue tech and I love it all. It's the digital tech that makes my studio possible. Iw as just noting the potential longevity for certain gear over others. I wasn't trying to say one was better...it's all useful stuff!!

I agree totally...Hybrid amps will not be serviceable forever. Any computer/digital tech is like that. Something you didn't mention is that there are trusted companies making not so great tube amps and pretty expensive. These are mass produced on thin circuit boards and typically have tube sockets mounted directly on these boards. These amps are what I call throw away. I had one of these (I assume you'd rather I not mention brand names) that lierally burned up on me. I had a new amp built in cabinet and used chassis. These amps will not last a lifetime like the old ones would. I realize this is a bit off topic, but worth mentioning I think. Just because it's a tube amp without digital features doesn't mean you have an amp that will last a lifetime.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Actually this is a great point and very valid in this discussion. In fact, a few have mentioned this and I am actually now considering selling one of my hybrid amps now while it's in good shape and flip it for a pure tube amp with less of that "green" stuff inside. Thanks for sharing your experience...

I suspect the new version of the FM9 will just have the larger scribble strips that have made it to all their other floor devices. I bet there are no other changes. People still spend a premium on used models of FAS devices that have fallen out of support and they tend to retain their value over time compared to their competitors. The new firmware 6.0 on the FM9, currently in Beta, is amazing! It is already out on the AxeFX III. Best modeled plate and spring verbs you can get. Gapless switching and lots of improvements to the modeling are amazing. The feel and gap between the FAS models compared to the real counterparts continues to shrink. If your benchmark for feel and sound is recording with the physical cabinet in another room you literally can’t tell the difference. The only real difference is if you are standing in front of the cab. Being able to set speaker impedance curve and use a physical power amp to a physical Cab you can completely recreate the feel and sound of the tube amp in the room. I still love physical Amps and have some on my list to acquire but I don’t need to for any reason. It is strictly a want. You’ll see fewer and fewer physical amps as they continue to increase in price. If I’m spending $3000+ for a quality Amp I’d honestly rather put my money into a PRS Guitar. Especially as more and more venues move to silent stages. Again, if you put your back line off-stage, perhaps in a box mic’d somewhere there is no longer a difference in feel or sound to a FAS device.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

For me modelers are tools that can provide value if you make money using them. So best to monetrize them while you can because they are not long term investments. But they can bring great short term value if you can capitalize on that like savings in touring costs, added features in your studio etc...But good amps are forever. To me that's the biggest difference...

If you want the tube sound, you have to deal with the price and the weight etc. If you want the convenience of a modeler, you have to accept getting only 80-90% there. But some situations make the decision for you. I play small venues and blues jams. Using a modeler with IEM and going through the PA is not an option. I have a friend who uses a helix with a small power amp and a cab. That works but it’s not anymore convenient except for the weight. If you are fortunate enough to play where all you need is your fx board and guitar, I get it. I have a pod go I use for silent practice (with my iPad) and it is great. For those of you using a digital board and no amp, how do you get the amp to “talk back” with controlled feedback? And do any of you go to an open mic/jam? How does that work? Thanks for the video 👍

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

My pleasure! I get there are different tools for different scenarios. And Digital gear offers the conveniences amps could never offer. I have both here. My main point was the longer term value of the gear. And digital gear will age out. But I get it that many venues today don't even want the loud amps there...boy times have changed....

@jacksguitarplanet

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker Yes I agree. Another thing I forgot to mention is the lower stage volume which is a plus with the modelers

Those digital components in the newer "tube/digital" amps are not going to be "local shop" available components either.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

That is precisely my point!

My days in a band are over after many years and I'm 63 now. Still have a few Vox AC30TBXs I'm trying to sell. Damn, that's hard find someone who want to buy them. I'm playing quite a bit in my home studio but it's all digital now and frankly I love it. Would I use digital if I was still gigging? I doubt that but I also understand stage volume is an issue these days so eventually live music will suffer a bit from this too. You often see drum kits with plexi shields surrounding the kits and during my final years playing live I used plexis also for my amps just to be able to turn them up. But in a digital world we need to get used to wedges or in-ears. And you can't really say they all sound that good. Interesting topic for sure.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

The world has changed for sure. Both modelers and amps still have their place. I have both because I want to experience everything. With DI connectivity and attenuators you can still enjoy tube amps at lower volumes. And good amps will last for a long time while digital gear will age out....that's the reality today.

@SeattleMartin

5 ай бұрын

Drummers are the bane of us guitar players. The heavy-handed agressive stick technique that drummers prefer causes us guitar players to turn it up louder than we might prefer (and louder than many audiences like). Even an unmiked drum kit can be exceedingly loud, making everyone in the band turn up (including the PA system).

I'll preface my opinion with. being of the age when I could have purchased used kalamazoo Gibsons for $50 LP Jr, $75-100 SG, LP for 125-250 depending on the model, etc. Tube amps had the maintenance issues, were generally heavier but the tone was set the standard. now affordable tube amps are less repair friendly with printed boards unless you can afford hand wired, though repairable and if your inclined you can learn to do may repairs. the plethora of effects is amazing as there are more distortion pedals available now than practically the total from all manufacturers put together in the early '80's. I prefer an amp that will last, has the benchmark sound that all were based on and use individual pedals. If one pedal quits, 1 pedal is relatively cheap to replace, even a multi effects unit. I don't think tubes are going anywhere soon. I do still use a little Yamaha THR amp which sounds great for what it is, I did have an SS amp with digital effects at one time, it last for about 1 year of regular use before a couple parts went, I repaired and sold it. You make good points about the current units that are all digital, if phased out or they break that's likely it, in the trash(electronics recycling). I'll stick with what I have(I also no longer play out) which is another factor in my choices.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Whats great is we have choices. And with all of those choices we just need to be aware of what we are buying. We can't always buy for the future. Sometimes we need solutions for now. Enjoy what you've got and have fun playing music!

People think their gear is worth something until they try to sell it. It highly depends on the gear and your local market.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Very Very good point....

This is a really great analogy of how things are..... I think if tube amp makers lowered their prices, lots of peeps would buy.. I mean they still sell lots of them but not everyone can afford a real good amp!! A good guitar and amp is running you 6K+ now !! crazy !!!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Thank you! By comparison, I bought the Apple Mac Studio M1 Ultra...when it came out...it was 6 grand and it WON'T last forever! Things are just so expensive in general now...

@YesItsReallyKeith

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker wow, had no idea the m1 was so costly!! yikes !!! one thing is for sure is you gotta take real good care of gear now ! cheers !!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Most definitely....gear can put us in the poor house!! ;)

@jsalvatori

5 ай бұрын

You can get a brand name tube head for under a grand, a 2x12 cab for $350, and a good quality guitar for $300. The barrier to entry has never been lower

Give me a tweed deluxe , a small box 50 Marshall , a Vibrolux Reverb , a Gibson Falcon , a 4-10 Bassman , a Deluxe Reverb , an Ampeg Gemini ll , a Supro 1-15 amp and Kirk Hamets " Greeny " Les Paul .

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I'm right in line behind you!

Yeah, as good as digital modeling amps are today, they are basically disposable. I like keeping a good old tube amp around for dependability and longevity, but I'll often utilize digital stuff for convenience. I just do my research to find good budget solutions for digital equipment, because I know that is money I'll never get back in the long run as an investment. As long as I feel it will make the money back I initially spent on it, I guess it's all good.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Good strategy. I have both here too. My modelers are great devices when recording. I re-amp my tube amps, I use the signal routing and its great having all of those effects and not have to rely on plugins. I love the gear but as you also understand, obsolescence will arrive with that gear eventually...

1st, historically there always has been either a third party or the original manufacturer(like the factory contracted) that will keep these circuit-boards on hand for products like keyboards and other music gear, if you are buying what is considered on of the major brands and sold a lot of these units then you will probably be able to buy those parts for a decently while even if the company goes bust, as longt as there remains a demand for them. 2nd, if the shift to digital/solid state is a threat to rube amp manufacturers the threat remains and will remain at the pre-amp/effects level of sound production, speakers and power amps will do fine because a set of studio monitors aren't going to be more attractive then a 4x12 for jamming and practice, they sound better in that case, and tube power does sound a little better then solid state. I'd conclude by sayin that tube amp manufacturers should consider a line of platform amps, a nice tube power amp with just a presence and eq, something like everything after the return only heads. this would let someone like me buy a 5/50/100 watt power head for substantially lower price then if i wanted to get a Marshall head and only use the return on it. I have a quilter microblock 45 on my pedal-board and if i need it i have a valvestate 100 watt head. I would prefer to have a tube head with a presence and volume, maybe a 200 watt one for the headroom.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

A few people have suggested amp companies should focus on good power amps. I'd prefer they do that than embed digital tech inside of their amps....

@vikingnortheast

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker yeah, it's like they're selling newb gear to premium customers.

I hate that about plugins! I've started investing in hardware for recording and mixing. I've got the plugins I couldn't live without but I'm trying to rely less on them and I think it sounds better too IMO. Like you said those plugins that you think you own might not work one day but hardware will never change.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

It’s the risk of digital which is why I don’t want digital components in my tube amp.

Confusing: "My Marshall tube amp has lasted forver." Then "I've had it in the shop NUMEROUS times." Guess it didn't last numerous times. SS lasts forever, unless it is subjected to water or shock. Yes you can buy an AX8 for 1/2 price - however, you are ignoring the cost of pedals and the fact you could not get ALL the pedals on an AX8 on a pedalboard. With a head you get 3 ch EQ and reverb (maybe) ONLY. Unless it's a sought after amp, you can find several older 5150s, Marshalls, and other tube amps for 60% off. Regard recent trend? Hybrid amp heads were around in the 90s - they are digital and tube, not seeing a end of life as you term it. It's just another way for amp manufacturers to innovate and possible sell more. We all like different things. Bottom Line: Same issues affect SS and tube amps- elements, shock and dust. However, ONLY tube amps need constant replacing of tubes, a cost one does not have with SS. A tube head is mostly just that, zero effects, compressors, loopers, etc., that come with an FM9. The fact that many players are switching live AND in the studio is indicative of the future. Singularly, moving a tube amp to practice, record or gigs is risky - hope you have spare tubes.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Funny you pointed out that part. When I was editing this video I thought it was getting a bit too blah blah so I cut some things down to make this video shorter. In that section, before I cut it down, I actually said “ I’ve had my Marshall in the shop numerous times, actually not that many times, just a couple of times getting new tubes”. When I edited it down I noticed I changed the context. But I figured no one would care. Well you noticed! To clarify. I’ve owned the amp closer to 30 years and I’ve had it retubed only twice. It’s cheaper than maintaining a car. And we’ll worth it if you like amps. If you noticed, I have a fractal fm9 and a helix and some smaller other ones you don’t see in the video. No reason you can’t love both!

Im with you on only analog tube amps. I always consider the amp as parts, can I build a tube amp out of its parts? So if the tech dies, does it still have value!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Good way to look at it. Digital has its place on its own...but amps need to be amps and they will keep giving us joy for many years to come...

I reckon you missed loudness. Most folk can't play a tube amp full volume at home, even with a Two Notes device. With a multi FX, just stick your earphones on and you're good to go - without getting divorced/evicted :)

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I reckon you didn't get far in the video as I wasn't arguing the modeler vs amp thing. I was talking about something completely different ;)

@nedludd3641

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker - you seemed to be arguing strengths & weaknesses of both devices imo. It's hard to see how it doesn't become apples vs oranges

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

My main point was amps having digital tech inside...I used modelers as an example of how digital products can become obsolete and I didn't want that tech inside a tube amp...it's risky....

@nedludd3641

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker - Dunno whether they still do it, but one company places red hot valves on top of mother boards - which is nuts imo. I take your point about digital preamps though - unfortunately that ship's sailed - can anyone afford a totally valve amp these days? ...and even if they could there's reliability issues. John Cordy tried to gig with a valve amp last year and hit a world of problems with breakdowns.

For me, it is simple economics. I can get a Kemper, Fm9, and quad cortex for under $2000. If I just want 2 valve amps like a Fender twin reverb ($1999) and a Soldano SLO 100 super lead ($3999) I could buy the quad cortex 4 times. Hell I could bet 3 quad cortex for the price of a Diezel VH4 ($4500).

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I assume you mean "I can get a Kemper, Fm9, (((OR)))) quad cortex for under $2000

@kastnerr

5 ай бұрын

@LonelyRocker yes, that is correct, sorry for the lack of clarity.

Smart take.

@LonelyRocker

2 ай бұрын

Thanks! :)

This really made my beanbag tingle!

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I hope that’s a good thing 😂😂😂

@bryanbrewer4272

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker it is for sure,lolz

Tube amps are in bad weather. Ergo make them worse by cutting corners.

Adjusted for inflation, $600 1990's dollars are $1,380 2024's dollars. So your Amp has held it's value very well.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Considering the 900s are not as desirable as other Marshalls I certainly can't complain :)

I got six solid-state amps and no tube and I blew up a solid state and believe it or not my Reverb delay pedal I don’t know what happened to it but it went out and it took out an amp with it DV, Mark 60

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Yikes!

After being away from any direct involvement with music for over 5 years, I jumped back into it in early '19. To my amazement, gear like the Boss Katana mkii line and the PRS MT15 were just hitting the scene. I did the Katana thing right away, and even bought a second one to link in stereo. But I still wanted a tube amp for my lead tones. I ended up finding a 2018 built MT15 with the 6L6 tubes in the power amp section of it. It also has the revised wiring harness to keep it quiet. I feel like between these 2 amps there's really not much I can't do? My biggest issue with the majority of the guitar amps coming out in the last couple years, is the ridiculous amount of features that's inevitably built into them? Do modern guitarists really want or need all the bells and whistles? I just wanna plug in and play. I don't wanna have to download files or buy expensive cables to link to other devices. I just wanna rock! Sometimes I think all these complex rigs will be landfill sooner than later. And everyone will go back to simple rigs again. That's my hope. I certainly don't need to spend over $1000 U.S. to have fun. Speaker cabs? That's a whole nother scam going on.

@LonelyRocker

4 ай бұрын

That is what prompted me to make this video. I agree...tube amps should be tube amps. I don't need all that gack in there!!

@andrewbecker3700

4 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker Yeah, I mean if it's doing what you want, who cares how? Whatevers clever. I like the simpler the better. How can you keep track of all the settings on super complex control layouts? You'd almost have to take pictures for reference. When I heard the Boss Katana saved settings, I was sold. It's very easy to use.

@LonelyRocker

4 ай бұрын

That’s a whole topic onto itself! 🤪

I like my AC15 and pedals, but I get bored with it in half an hour and move back to my digital solutions going into cabs, or monitors, or earphones, or to my theater system, or bluetoothed to my outdoor sound system. I love pulling up millions of dollars worth of amps and effects within seconds and playing every genre of music you can imagine in a split-second. Tube amps are good for the touch responsiveness and emulating the same sounds and artists we've heard for over half a century. But they don't do enough for the modern musician or someone trying to create new music and sounds. I might buy some more tube amps in the future, but it's while knowing I'm paying exponentially more for a fraction of the features.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Try merging a real amp a modeler...best of both worlds. I love doing that!

There is no comparing a tube amp vs modeler. Tube is better and some solid states. And many players now are head phone desk player Digital amps not replacements and take more to have to set up to use live. And people can tell the difference.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I just think they are very different but both have their place. I have multiples of both here. I'm an amp guy 100% but modelrs are really fun to use and offer me great features for my studio. I just wanted to point out the monetary risks with digital and I think amps need to stay pure analog so they hold their value for a long time!

Excellent points. Indeed it is rare that digital products are still considered valuable after many many years. So many are excited about the FM9, but I'm pretty sure it will be a laughable product in 20 years. Much like the Line 6 Pod is considered laughable. There are some exceptions when it comes to digital however. Old Lexicon and Eventide products are still considered very valuable and unique. Indeed once they break it will be a pain to fix depending on what's broken. But let's consider that 25 -35year old digital products like old Lexicon & Eventides are still used in professional settings. Personally I love my Mesa MkV:25 amp. Mesa is smart in that their Mk VII amp has an IR loader and can connect via USB, it has nothing to do with the operation of the amp. When USB dies in the future as a different technology supercedes it, The Mesa amp will still continue to kickass.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

I agree....there are definitely some well made digital products but seems they are older digital products that were built with a similar philosophy as analogue gear. A lot of newer gear is designed to "expire". As far astthe Mesa, that's true. The Revv I mentioned in my video works without the built in load. I actually use an external one. And I assume many amps are built that way. But the VHX is an example of the digital component being part of the main design of the amp. That's a risky proposition....in my opinion....

@SaintLuminus

5 ай бұрын

@@LonelyRocker 🙏 Thanks for making these vids. 👍👍👍

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

My pleasure!! Thank you so much for watching them! :-)

While I agree that the feel of the actual real amp in a room is different from a modeler, owning the actual tube amp can be a chore. Had an Orange TH-30C, loved it. But it was a nightmare to get it to gigs, big and heavy. Had to repair it twice. And it was too loud to use in the apartment. Ended up selling it.

@LonelyRocker

4 ай бұрын

I've never considered an amp a chore!! If you love amps, it's a small price to pay to maintain them. If you're open to other things, that's cool too...

How is it more affordable? The FM9 is $2k, then you need a power amp and a cab just to be able to approximate a tube amp so that you can jam in your room without being connected to your computer??? A lot of guitarists, myself included don't want to be tethered to a laptop or PC, they just want to plug in and play.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Great points. Cost is relative to need. Though many players do go to front of house with modelers so they can get but with just the one device. But ideally you at least need a cab if some sort to untether.

I have a Fractal AX8 I'm trying to sell and it ain't easy, I'm considering buying a real amp for the reasons you exposed in your video. If I buy an FM9 Turbo MKII now for $2,000, how long before it gets obsolete? When it does one has to practically give it away.. It's a bit out of control

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Unfortunately that's the cycle of digital gear. Get as much use out of it as you can. The fractal stuff is well built so as long as it's taken care of it should still work beyond its firmware support. But with digital nothing is guaranteed...

This is why I've largely given up on modeling and decided to invest in a REAL analog bass amp (a Hartke LH500) and actual analog stompboxes. All of these components will last forever if taken care of, and won't be victims of planned obsolescence. They also sound better, and the fewer options bolster creativity.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Likely a very good strategy. I've found a place where modelers and amps live nicely together. But any amp I buy will always be true analogue with no digital circuitry. I don't trust it...

@SeattleMartin

5 ай бұрын

Planned obsolescence is already happening, and there´s no going back to the way things used to be. You might be the only guy at the gig who takes 2 hours to set up his kit, and at the end of the night you will so fing tired with achy muscles from outloading 1000lbs of gear that you´ll wonder why you participate in this hobby at all. Yes, your gear may last forever, but your body won´t. And at the end of the gig, virtually nobody in the audience will give a shit about your dinosaurian analog gear. Guitar players need to focus on the songs, their timing, and their vocal work, rather than the sound of their gear. Most of the best songs of the past 70 years were performed and recorded on equipment that was terrible by today´s standards, but the tunes were stellar. This is what has happened to modern-day guitar players: they spend 10000 dollars on equipment to play terrible music and horrid songs. Write better songs and forget about the gear!

@Andyanddiana467

5 ай бұрын

@@SeattleMartin I’d argue I tinkered more with, and had more setup time with, digital gear than with analog gear. If I need to adjust anything, I can turn a knob rather than menu dive. I also play bass and my needs are simpler, so it’s not always an apples to apples comparison. And my band mates help me lift my gear (and I, theirs) so that’s not a concern.

@Andyanddiana467

5 ай бұрын

@@SeattleMartin also, going with my setup, I can focus more on music. No spending hours scrolling through 27 different choruses, which, ironically, try to emulate my dinosaurian analog one. 😂

@SeattleMartin

5 ай бұрын

You´re probably right. As far as the weight goes, as you get older, you´ll want less and less to lug heavy gear around. You don´t see J Hetfield setting up his own tube amps and cabs. That´s what roadies are for.@@Andyanddiana467

Metallers with solid state heads? Dimebag most certainly, Scott Burns of Morrisound was fond of recording the Tampa Death Metal bands with the Marshall Valvestate, but can you really think of any others? There was a trapezoid shaped amp that Jimmy Page used, and Marc Bolan of T-Rex did use H&H amps, which were solid state - but 70's solid state was terrible and cool at the same time! lol When you're playing metal you don't need lots of sounds - you just need one awesome sound. Tube amps fit this bill perfectly, but of course with a modeller pedal, you can just pick one of those 150+ sounds that you like the best. One of the big reasons why the pros are going to these kinds of gear is because logistics just keep getting more expensive. Trucks & planes. Carry a rig on board in the hand luggage, or pay for a large tube head/rig to go in the cargo hold, well it's a no brainer if there isn't much difference in sounds. Large venues and loud PA systems any nuance of real vs modelled is largely lost. Even on stage, when most of the sound is coming through the monitors or side-fills. Cradle of Filth fairly recently did a European tour and all the guitarists used were those Mooer 5150 modeller pedals. I got one myself and it does reasonable interpretation of the 5150 pre-amp stage. I also have a real 5150 head, which I brought brand new in 1994 (great times those years!). I just don't use it much now because it is so cumbersome to cart around with the quad! lol I played my first live performance in six years to a sizeable audience at a local community event a few days ago. A two song set, just a couple of covers, with backing tracks. I used an inexpensive powered speaker to both play the tracks and function as my gat amp. The pre-amp was a very cheap AmPlug style headphone amp, purchased a while back from eBay. About 30 bucks. Headphone jack straight into an input on the powered speaker. Sounded *just* good enough to do the job. But the logistics of that - far easier than dragging out the "proper" gear.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

Back in those days many were influenced by Dime. High Gain tube amps are for more of a thing now than then which is why it’s more of a staple in metal now. . Of course now with modelers it’s a whole different story.

This is a really interesting topic and a nice video. You have earned my subscription ! But I think that you missed a point in your presentation : modern tube amps, even if not coming with embarked digital technology are not made as good as your old Marshall is, hence even simple but modern tube amps are probably never going to be life-long investment. If you look at the videos of most amp tech on KZread (like Psionic Audio's Chanel), you will see that modern tube amp - even when from some "boutique" brand are actually not serviceable : really cheap Chinese made parts that are going to fail much sooner, bad designs with a lot of proximity between part that are going to heat and some that are not supposed to be exposed to heat, tube directly mounted on printed circuit boards with those boards that are going to . And it is not only for mainstream amps, even pseudo-hand wired Fender amps that cost a lot of money are actually really badly designed, Victory amp from England are also built on circuit boards, as Mesa Boogies, etc. For those, when a part fail, sometimes the only solution is for the tech to change the circuit board altogether (hence it will be the same problem as a tube amp that is integrating digital technologies, when the board is discontinued on the manufacturer side, the amp will be useless and unrepairable). Supro amps which are built in the US and are supposed to be hand-wired are also pretty badly designed, the problem is not limited to the Chinese-made ones... The new Gibson amp are build in the US and are supposed to be hand-wired, the Falcons, but it seems that they are really cheaply built also, etc. There are actually very few future proof build amps nowadays, Carr comes to the mind, in a more industrial approach, with circuit boards, Magnatones are supposedly nicely built, etc.

@LonelyRocker

5 ай бұрын

This is a great point and has been brought up by a few in the comments. I have enough fuel for a follow up to this discussion. Hand-wired amps present even far more value and perhaps I can distinguish between them. Though glad you enjoyed this video and glad you have jumped on board. thank you!