One big plus point for a 50% battery over a 30% one is that you can 3 turn farm without having to use the swap mc with a normal scope and 20% append (+mc for cd reduction if the battery is 6+turn). I really dislike swapping as it gets really tedious after a time for me. The hybrid meta is pretty cool but it is heavily gated behind high np levels if the nodes are plastered with thicc boys. Really like these kinda discussions though. Thumps up.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's my issue with it too, we have to either use plug and a bunch of buttons or have to be fairly whaley to overcome the more streamlined comps requirements.

Arjuna Alter eating good when these guys come out. 30% np up makes him not waste anything.

@eslamatef8442

Жыл бұрын

Makes him unable to loop without 3 servants to support him 😂😂 Yet unable to loop with less than 50% starting charge Thats gonna be the issue Your not gonna be able to use him on lotto unless you max one of your CE's

Another issue with the buster system is the high team cost to be able to loop in a lotto scenario.

True chads loop with a 60% starting CE on Salter or Gray, 20% append skill, and "looping" with their 20% NP batteries.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, gray had an amazing buff.

7:17 I’ve been on board with your points, but I would think the obvious options to not waste battery charges is to just not use Oberon’s 20% charge (and heck, that allows you to substitute a different 50-charger in that setup if you don’t have him), and to not unlock the DPS’s battery Append unless for waifu/husbando love- in 3T comps using 50% charges, a 50% charging DPS isn’t going to need their Append. As your waifu is Lartoria, your wasted charge is the refund from her NP. Later in the video you showed how Koyan Dark turns that into an advantage, but my point remains that there’s cheaper options people can do that weren’t hinted at.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

Not using oberon's charge is just leaving damage on the table. A lot of the wave 3 firepower of these comps depends on Oberon's ability to boost damage. But yes that's precisely a point I probably failed to make clear. Just not leveling the append for these units is the solution, and thus in itself a bit of a problem. That's the waste I'm talking about. It's great with hybrid comps but totally worthless in the typical Koyanskaya 3 turn setup. I think a lot of the people looked at my Lartoria and assumed this to be "whale" advice but the goal here was to get you guys thinking about what else you can do with these units and to think outside the box since DW has sort of left that waste in the system for these units.

I've encountered a vaguely similar problem with units on NA occasionally, i usually can get by with the "3 Great Heroes" CE when this issue does come up, but that CE's a bit different than what would actually be needed in a farming setup. I've mentioned numerous times under my breath how I'd like a CE like "3 Great Heroes" that was more Damage oriented overall. I know some people might think Khadroth's making a "Big Deal" out of very little, but when you're a F2P who wants to optimize efficiency almost as much as a whale, these kinds of Nitpicky problems stand out a lot, and are really important to bring up. So I hope people understand that while this is certainly a more bizarre and eccentric issue, it's also a very important one to at least a decent chunk of the playerbase. A TLDR of the point made could be described as; because we have more support options which grant more Battery with less skills, Craft Essences with Less Battery, but more damage are becoming a lot more powerful, while CEs with More Battery, but less Damage are becoming less valuable.

Edit: I'm not a whale on my JP account. That's just my waifu. Whales don't have issues like this guys, they literally have the NP levels to always overcome it. Hey guys back after the new year to showcase an issue I've noticed in the system and some of the fun you can do with overcharge! Let me know what you think! And don't forget to like the video and subscribe as it really helps the channel! 🙏 🔽Time Stamps for Mobile below🔽 0:00 Intro and Premise 0:51 Typical Setup and 30% Demonstration 4:51 30% vs. 50% 14:33 Lartoria Issue and Need for Overcharge 16:23 Lartoria 0% starting charge, 3 turn loop 19:36 Artoria 0% starting charge, 3 turn loop 22:45 Morgan Overcharge comp 25:55 Double Koyami Overcharge comp 29:58 Reines Double Koyan Overcharge comp 33:23 Summary and Conclusion

@Sleepyduo38

2 жыл бұрын

So get Castoria, Morgan, both Koyanskaya, well RIP my wallet.

I think most people are not going to have a favorable opinion in the comments because most people are probably going to have 1 of 2 reactions listed below. 1. This seems like really whale problems. 2. It's obvious using a preset system is not going to solve all your problems. People with reaction 1 are probably going to see you "complaining" about wasting charge on your several 5 stars units with Max Append Mana Loading and go "this seems excessively nitpicky needless". While people with reaction 2 are probably going say "using a strict system that designed to be most universally effective, rather then apply to specific niches is always going to drop some efficacy so working around it rather then blindly following it so obvious that it almost doesn't need to be mentioned." I think the video is overall good, but I believe the framing of the video was handled poorly. I personally not a fan how you framed needing specific ce's at say 20-30% NP Charge with good effects and mentioning in the description how "Aniplex needs to fix it" as demonstrated in your video, this problem is exclusive to people using only that 1 variation of the Koyanskaya of Light system, it is not a problem of the game, just the most effective strategy. Saying things like "they need to buff to get 50% chargers to on par with 30% charges for max efficacy" suggest that game should probably be balanced around the 2x Koyanskaya Light Oberon System.... which is that is your take then sure, but personally I thinking making already standard meta system better, is not what I desire for the game. Personally I like the analysis, I think it is well done, but I think it could been framed as "Alternative Buster Comps for 3 turning, or if the CE point is a sticking point, a more general discussion on the Power of CE's vs Charge they provide. Overall great analysis, the test comps are super useful in illustrating the point, but not a fan how the criticism was presented.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

I probably could have phrased it better, but if people aren't seeing the intention of the video and getting caught up rather on the np levels or rarities, that can't be helped. This is a typical problem with showing this sort of thing off. My goal is to demonstrate an issue in the typical 3 turn setup that involves double koyan and oberon. I also wanted to show you how I arrived at that issue, demonstrating that my waifu was the worst of it. If that gets written off by people that's their fault for being close minded. Now's the part where I also tell you this is all filmed on my JP account and other than that lartoria, every single one of the units you saw on screen was acquired F2P. So if my one crime is recording using my NP5 waifu, oh well. I used both her and Artoria to demonstrate how overcharge could be used. I'm not expecting the system to be perfect for everyone, I'm saying its fundamentally flawed for every 50%er in the game. Telling people not to level the append or use skills is an option but its ultimately just wasting the potential there. That's where the point about the CE comes from. It's to frame an easy way that the devs could make such an adjustment without needing to change the system or the units. The system overall is still insane and does a lot of damage, and as I showed there are hybrid work arounds and things that can be done with overcharge. That being said I don't see any way to talk about this issue without it somehow coming across as complaining in people's eyes, so the only other choice I had was to not post and leave you all in the dark.

Something you didn't touch upon though is that 50% buster units tend to have higher wave 2 damage than the 30% chargers because they get that 30% NP damage earlier. For instance, Lartoria has the 3rd highest wave 2 damage among Lancers while also being the weakest wave 3 damaging Lancer. Most units as long as they have class advantage will liquidate wave 3 enemies due to Oberon's broken skill set anyways. Also for 30% chargers, you NEED that append unlocked whereas 50% chargers have less investment overall and still preform at around the same level. Great video overall.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

To be honest, based off the comments for the video, I'm glad I didn't. People are really hung up on the rarity of unit I'm using and the NP levels of my waifu. Talking more about damage would probably just make them angrier. Helping wave 2 out is certainly great but some units won't care due to skill interaction. That being said, I always assume the dev's intent is to make us use the append system. It's their new time/qp/material sink they've added for players. This is why I believe that while not having the append levels isn't as imperative for a 50%er, its still probably their intention that we level it. I still think more coins are coming and people are going to start noticing stuff like this more often once they realize the append system is more accessible than they originally realized.

I actually think that's an interesting application for Duke of Flames with Saber faces.

Part of me REALLY wants to do a Morgan, Bunny, Vortigern setup for a future lotto. I just gotta hope we get a decent 30% CE for one at some point in the future.

Great analysis!

Caster Cu has up to 240 charge inbuilt with 60% waste with Koyan & Oberon. With append skill it ends up possible to use Merlin in place of Oberon.

@xuanathan

11 ай бұрын

It's possible to use Merlin with no Append Skill Turn 1 At the lake, then both Koyan batteries, np Turn 2 80% charge, Rune Spell, np, at the lake Turn 3 Plug suit to Merlin, 80% charge, dreamlike, and then np

one place where 30% CEs come up is xmas lotto, which seemingly now always has a 30% (50% at mlb) charge CE for lotto bonus. Being able to use a looping system with a 30% charge CE lets you 6slot 3T lottos much earlier. Or you know... you could just save the resources and not level the append until you need it for that usecase, lores are limited after all :)

Youre completely right, however the only luxury 50% have , is that you can use Waver over Oberon

So something I realised in the current Valentine's event. 50% chargers have an advantage in that they can use 30% Non MLB event craft essences. Handy when you have 5 but aren't ready to MLB.

dont really see the np overflow as an "issue". its just giving you a lot more options to work with (which u just proved yourself). also this "issue" is completely unique to lartoria only.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

The basis of that line of reasoning is mostly that 50%ers have no access to a better CE and thus the 30%ers are more damaging and more efficient on average. That whole concept is due to the fact that 50%ers are leaving 40% on the table for waste. Lartoria just wastes 40% more than even them.

Coming from someone who uses the Koyanskaya system on JP, I do agree with what you're saying. I've had issues with some of the NP being wasted, and it can hurt when for me, all of my farming units are at NP1 beyond my Achilles, who I wouldn't use in this system anyway and just go double Skadi. I do think this is perhaps meant to be one of the downsides of Buster being able to loop; the system isn't always clean. In an Arts comp with double Castoria, I feel this is far less of an issue because you're going to be refunded to a typically high amount because of the Arts and NP Gain buffs and you can use CEs like Black Grail for that extra oomf. Of course that does mean that nodes with 1 or 2 enemies get wonky, almost like how the Buster system is wonky for those 50 percenters. I assume this is likely just trade offs for using one system over another, if you of course have the luxury of having these units in the first place. Overall while I myself have found it to be annoying, it usually works out fine for a good majority of farming in the game. It's usually in the later parts of the game where mobs get more chunky that it begins to show, particularly for players that don't have high NP levels so they can't use that as a way of levering extra damage.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

Yep, people are caught up on the np lvl of my waifu in the video, not realizing that damage still matters in the system especially on waves 1 and 2. NP1's can really struggle depending what you're up against and its why I like solution of better CEs for the 50ers. But yep that's the downside of the buster system atm, Koyan and Oberon have that block 50 charge. It's one of the reasons I suspect Koyami got the 30% charge instead. Buster needed some weird solutions like that.

interesting discussion, really good points... sadly, i myself play NA so i am yet to know how a double tamavitch comp feels

Quick enthusiast just smiles and nods...

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

One day, my friend. One day...

On the one hand, I do get the issues brought up. On the other, I think it’s more a matter of cost. A 50% charger can be used so long as you raise their charge. A 30% charger needs you to not only spend the QP and resources to raise their skill level, but also acquire enough coins to unlock their append, then spend _even more_ QP and recourses to max that append out. For a 50% charger using this system, all those extra resources don’t need to be spent and can be saved for other Servants skills. I’ve certainly run into plenty of QP issues recently, not to mention how expensive skill leveling can be for certain Servants (72 bells _per skill?_ Come on, game)

I'm hoping to roll Morgan when she comes out in NA. I'm not sure if I'll use her to farm but at least were getting a new Order Change Mystic Code.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

She can be really good both as a farmer and boss killer. The overcharge gimmick featured here can also be used alongside Merlin and Castoria for a very tanky comp that's hard to beat.

@phoenixguy7016

2 жыл бұрын

@@Khadroth In all honesty I don't really care much about game play and care more that I like the Fairy Witch aesthetic she has.

Nice Video bro

My "Robust" NP2 OG Artoria on NA can't wait...

Great video....but this level 1 Robin makes me sad^^ I also totally agree that in the current state of the game many 30% Charger are way better also for farming than 50% Chargers like in the AA vs. Morgan discussion!

Again quality video Khad of roth

I thought the idea for 50% battery users we good cause they can use event CEs which sometimes doesnt have charge or enough

The problem with starting from 0 using duke of flames, is that you're starting from 0 using duke of flames. Starting from 0 matters little if we're not freeing up the CE slot. :P For some reason, though, I keep wondering how you can squish Chen Gong in this set up for another 10% charge + plugsuit. XD but that qould require Gong to have a 50% charge (with oberon being 20% AOE charge)

Maybe you should consider that if 50%ers don't need the append skill you could grail them more. You know, coins are a huge issue if you want yo have your waifu at 120 and also functioning well you need like 6 copies for ssr. So here 50% would allow you not to have that 20% append.

Wait... Can these NP Overcharge CEs be used in a similar fashion for the Arts Supremacy meta?

@Byssbod

Жыл бұрын

If you find someone who really, really cares about overcharge.

This is such a first world problem dude. Dps with 50% charge skil biggest strength is that they will do just fine if you don't have oberon (not everyone has Myst seemingly infinite fund to roll). A dps with 50% charge can get away with plugsuit waver from the free ssr ticket. Edit: And also, most event charge CE are 30% charge when not mlbed. This makes a dps with 50% charge CE more valuable as it maximizes your event bonus. This will be more important if it happens on a lotto event. Edit 2: Im done watching at 13 menit. I just can't continue. Do you even realize that the best thing about a dps with 50% charge skill in dks is they give you a little bit breathing room in CE? Dps with 30% charge can only loop with 50% charge CE (event ce most of the time need to be mlb to give you 50%). I can give you more reasons/scenarios of the benefit a dps with 50% charge skill have but man you look like you just complain for the sake of complaining.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

Hate to break it to you but I'm not a whale on JP man. I'm not talking about their capability to 3 turn. I'm talking about their efficiency and damage within the system. I'm sorry man but I you're entire 2nd edit is just wrong. 30%ers can loop with any CE that's 50% or more, not just 50%. And 50%ers have no reason to loop with anything less than a 50% charge ce because most options are flawed and not as good as aerial drive (a welfare CE). If we're talking in even sure that 30% non-mlb is great and that's the entire basis of my point about the CE. You seem to have missed the mark here entirely for what I was getting at.

@ilhamakbarhindarto1186

2 жыл бұрын

@@Khadroth I think you missed my point. Dps with 30% battery charge NEED CE with at least 50% charge. This is very relevant in a lot of event, especially in lottos. Is drop bonus efficiency not important to you? Dps with 50% battery can get away with un-mlb 50% charge CE. In event you don't want to mlb the event CE until you have at least 9 copies of said CE to ensure the drop bonus. The thing I hate from this video is you don't talk about the benefit of dps with 50% charge n the downside of dps with 30% charge. Besides is using the same CE (Aerial Drive) really that bad? Will it make you unable to 3t loop? Saying dps with 50% battery at a disadvantage because dps with 30% charge can also do it too with the same CE is disingenuous. Dps with 30% battery have to jump through so many obstacles to do it but you never even talk about it. And then there is the big elephant in the room. Oberon. Dps with 30% charge can't function without Oberon. Dps with 50% charge can get away without him. This mean dps with 30% charge is more expensive because you need Oberon and Koyanskaya. Meanwhile dps with 50% charge can get away with only Koyanskaya and waver from the free SSR ticket.

Man, I wish Salter's np refund scaled better with overcharge

why not just use waver or is the damage that relevant

New CE is basically the dream ce for you lol

personally Dont care bout wasting... just means I can be lazy with leveling oberons skills and append skill 2s

does anyone happen to have a resource/tier list of buster meta ces?

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

You don't really need a tierlist for that. Basically if your unit can work from 0% (Melusine, Cu caster) Black grail. If your unit can work from 50% (50 and 30% chargers) Aerial Drive is your welfare option or something like Heavenly demon princess. If your unit is a 20% charger or hybrid (Arthur, Salter, Gray etc) their best options are 60% starting CEs like Partake with the king, the anni 6 CE, or battle olympia.

Dude, if I have to spend mats on an append skill, I want my servant to at least give me more damage in exchange.

i think that counting Oberyn as part of the system is ultra whale. Koyenskayas strong point with 50 percent chargers is that at the end you can use your free waver etc.

@6ToesHeACreature

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly without Oberon the 30% are just dead fish on wave 3.

i don't have this problem because i don't have the ability to get append skills. LOL or the top caster. lol. . . . *cries in a corner*

Just use a non-MLB K-scope + 20% append skill.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

You can but the point at play here is getting the most damage out of this. The capability to 3 turn isn't really the issue so much as being able to clear hurdles. And I'm calling out the point that 30%ers basically have the same capability as a 50%er now with assumedly more damage.

@saviorlegend

2 жыл бұрын

Ahhhhh OK. I got ya. Great video BTW.

All I gotta say is you have to make things complicated than needed to be, also as a Wise Englishman said "Don't worry about it"

Then just use Black Grail I guess. it can't be helped...

oh no my the problem of Buster system is that my servant is too good for it

I suppose everyone have his philosophy, but that's seem like a whale issue there. What the point of having this much dommage and wanting even more ? I don't know what farming node you fail, but without class disadvantages, I suppose none 😅 I'm just happy to NP loop with my buster waifu, few NP charge left isn't a issue from my side of view

I get what you trying to say but let's be real here, not all Ayers have account like yours nor players will be able to get Meta Supports in the game so Saying things like Wastefull charge is Stupid since in the end you work with what you have.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

Sure but then they're not doing the koyanskaya system anyways without double of her. This is pointing out an issue with that system.

@squalleonkeneddyheart4191

2 жыл бұрын

@@Khadroth I get what your Saying but Is there such a Thing as Wastefull charge? Cuz 50% or 30% as long as it can do the Job wouldn't that be enough? Tierlist are there for a Reason so if you have the servant cool if you don't look for a replacement, if still no then look for Alternatives, the good thing about the Buster Meta is that it Fixes the Problem of number of enemies/HP count of Enemies/Class of enemies/NP Gain count/Overkill Count/ etc. That comes with Quick and Arts Meta, so whether it's 50% or 30% as long as you can end the Battle in 3 Nodes without issues is more than enough.

@Khadroth

2 жыл бұрын

@@squalleonkeneddyheart4191 Tierlists are terrible. And yes, charge waste is what I'm demonstrating in the video. I'm pointing out that 50%er does less damage than a 30%er, but has to still start from the same CE. As commented from other people in this post, there are times that an np1 doesn't cut it depending on what's being faced.

@squalleonkeneddyheart4191

2 жыл бұрын

@@Khadroth well let us agree to disagree, In the end it all depends on what's in your Box whether or not you can pull off the Strats that are available.