My daughter’s school called me to approve her taking a cough drop and yet if she chooses to transition I would not hear from them. It is maddening.

@jernisharichard5032

7 күн бұрын

You're right, it is 🤯. They have to get permission for all kinds of things, but not for this, NO ?

@bentebbens

6 күн бұрын

Such insanity, hypocrisy, so, so sad 😔😭😭

@mtollefsrud

6 күн бұрын

That is nonsense. There was a no school district in the country with the authority to provide gender affirming medical care with or without parental consent. Schools don’t provide these types of services. Stop listens to people who want to scare you and just ask your school counselor or Principal.

@av8r619

6 күн бұрын

Homeschool, whatever sacrifices you have to make. You can’t possibly do more harm than that “system” will do to them.

@B.Y.DDreams-et6up

5 күн бұрын

It's so ridiculous Paula, yet so true

Heard this scripture from Alisa Childers…”For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice.” ‭‭James‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭ESV‬‬

@Bioboy590

6 күн бұрын

Key word=practice. She conflates practice with desire.

@straleycaldwell

5 күн бұрын

⁠ 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death. James 1:14-16

So I have a real lust for food and sweets. But I've repented of food gluttony and lost weight. Yet just because I salivate and lust after the desserts on the banquet table, I'm sinning although I'm fighting the temptation to sin? I can't agree. There's always temptation to sin.

@PC-vg8vn

6 күн бұрын

youre completely right. temptation to sin is not sin by definition.

@jillh1543

5 күн бұрын

Why do you disagree? You used the word ‘lust’ to describe what you do at the banquet table - how is that not sin? It’s not irredeemable sin and you ARE fighting it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not sin. Sin in its embryonic stage, as Rosaria says. I would also suggest that homosexual attraction/lust is unique in that it is antithetical and contrary to God’s design, whereas wanting and enjoying food is from God, ultimately. Only you can know if your desire for food has become an idol, but wanting food in and of itself is a God-given design, whereas homosexual desire is not.

@hephep7426

5 күн бұрын

Looking once at the dessert table and noticing how good thay look is the temptation and certianly not a sin if you look away and focus on other things. But if you linger at looking and thinking and long for a dessert even though you don't take it that is the sin of lust. Just like Jesus said if you look at a woman to just after her you have committed adultery in your heart. That is the difference. In the case of Ssa, a gay Christian is declaring that they are engaging in the lust sin. Do you claim to be a gluttonous Christian but celibate? That would indicate you engage in lusting/sin at the desert table even though you don't take a desert.

@PC-vg8vn

5 күн бұрын

@@hephep7426 'In the case of Ssa, a gay Christian is declaring that they are engaging in the lust sin.' no theyre not. Theyre saying theyre attracted to people of the same sex rather than of the opposite sex. 'Gay' simply describes one's sexuality.

@heartofalegend

5 күн бұрын

YES, and the reason there's always temptation to sin is because of our indwelling sin. I would argue that, biblically, Rosaria is on solid ground for agreeing with Augustine and the reformers on this point. Indwelling sin is always at work in us, causing our love for the Lord to fall short of what it should be. That in and of itself is sin. This is why repentance and confession should be like breathing for the believer. It begins the moment we wake and doesn't end till the moment we go to sleep. This comes down to a fundamental understanding of what total depravity is all about.

Everyone has a pet sin they need to repent of. Is yours gossip? Is it self righteousness? Is it sexual? Is it glottony? If every person who calls themselves Christian could hate their sins and take all their sins to Jesus on a moment by moment day by day basis, the church would be led by the Spirit and would be changed. Can we all "hunger and thurst for righteousness"? Lord Jesus, please bring us all to repentence!!! I want my holiness to only come from Him! I don't want my work to fix what is wrong with me. I only want His work. Praise His holy name!!!

I can be tempted to lust without actually lusting. And when tempted to lust, I can resist the temptation in the power of the Spirit or give in to the temptation and sin by lusting. I am not sinning by being tempted to lust. I'm sinning if I lust.

@EphSix12

7 күн бұрын

Except that Jesus himself stated that it starts in the heart. Meaning it's not action based. Acting on it is just the magnified mockery of God

@JasonDBennett

7 күн бұрын

​@@EphSix12 The temptation to lust comes from my old sin nature. That's not me anymore; I've been born again! My old sin nature may desire illicit sex, but my new nature in Christ does not.

@elizabethcockrill1991

7 күн бұрын

The difference is in repentance.

@JasonDBennett

7 күн бұрын

​@@elizabethcockrill1991 Rosaria says people have already sinned by being tempted to engage in illicit sex, whether internally or externally. She is working TOWARD her salvation; I am ALREADY saved because of Jesus. Saying no to the promptings of my old sin nature is not repentance from sin, it is resisting temptation.

@dominicgriego6073

7 күн бұрын

Agreed, even Jesus was tempted in every way that we are, yet without sin

Thank you for this interview Sean. It is getting and probably will continue to get harder and harder to hear these perspectives. I appreciate your having this conversation!

When Jesus can change water into wine, He can erase the body memories too. This has been my experience. Molested as a child, have had a wonderful intimate relationship in marriage and God erased the memories from my body.

Sean, thank you so much for this conversation. Deeply thinking through these issues right now and I appreciated your questions so much

Awesome content presented with humility clarity and a sound understanding of biblical doctrine

@SeanMcdowell thank you for this second interview. I benefited from it more than your first conversation with Rosaria. The first felt more confrontational.

I think she has some really good points however I find it interesting that she talks about going to people privately, but called out Preston Sprinkle and others publicly.

It is really critical to ask people to use biblical terms rather than importing theological language that has been filled with centuries of commentary. As a Calvinist, Rosaria is preoccupied with "indwelling sin", like it's cancer. Some of her tribe think of it like a cancer passed on from fallen parents, and they have all kinds of ideas about it. All of that stuff, our "sin nature" etc., is just our "flesh". We are human beings, and we are vulnerable to temptation, and we have to resist our human impulses to get what we want, how we want, when we want. As fallen creatures, we are at a disadvantage to Adam and Eve. But Adam and Eve sinned, because they were HUMAN. They sinned just like James describes in his epistle. The solution is Spirit. We walk in the Spirit. We set our minds on things above. We take every thought captive. But we are still human, and that will not change in this life. We will have total victory in some areas, and much struggle in others. Paul is exasperated by this reality. "For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live." Romans 8:13. Notice that it is DEEDS, not passing thoughts and temptations. By cultivating a life focused on the Spirit, we can have victory over temptation. But nothing in Scripture ever promises that we are going to be impeccably free from temptation of any kind. We need to read more Bible and less Puritan theology.

Thank for this open and deep conversation. Thank you Sean for being a really good listener. It is making me think again about things. One question if I may: How would you (Rosaria) view Jesus' Temptation in the categories that you use? If our temptations are 'inner sin' - how can Jesus be tempted like we were, yet without sin? The temptation mentioned in Hebrews surely is a way to tell us: he was similar to us? But then he was without sin? So did Christ's temptations have a different quality to ours then? But that would remove him from human proximity to us. What's your thinking on this? And yes please continue this conversation. Very helpful

It's good to bring her back to understand:)

"Consider this: The moment we start to confuse temptation with sin is the moment that we start to undermine Christ’s work to set us free from sin. Because Jesus resisted temptation, He was able to say no to sin, and instead, to be a sin offering for us, without sinning. But if temptation is somehow, really sin in disguise underneath, then Jesus would have never been able to have victory over sin, because he would have been sinning, when he was tempted. We would still be doomed and lost in our sin." From Is the Temptation to Sin, Itself, Sin? by Clarke Morledge.

Great great. Thank you for this interview

For those of us hoping for a conversation between Sean and Rosaria, this is not that. This is Rosaria pontificating for 95% of this hour and a half.

I’m on the fence with the “aesthetic attraction” bit- mostly just on where we can draw the line on what equates to sin (concupiscence.) I know that, yes, if I’m looking on someone too long, it is possible for that look to make me fall into lust (which for me is rarely a desire for anything physical, and is more like a continued desire to admire/be around someone, but that becomes idolatry of its own sort when unchecked.) So if I have those thoughts forming, I know I need to repent and look away. Now, as someone artistically minded, I have times where I can look at someone’s face and I want to admire them/study them in the same fashion that I want to admire a flower, a mountain vista, a favorite animal, etc. But, if I understand correctly what Rosaria is saying, because viewing people of beauty can occasionally correlate and is therefore the “embryo” of lust, I probably ought to be repentant and as a rule of thumb should not go out of my way to appreciate anyone’s beauty (in my case for drawing study or character reference), because even the prelude to what *could* become sin *is* itself sin. Am I misunderstanding? I’m not trying to kick back at the idea, I just wonder if even doing a double take at someone to say “wow, he/she is really lovely” is something I should be concerned about. I definitely have had to grow past some “growing pains” and I don’t expect I’ve learned everything yet, so I want to be cautious. IDK, I’d just be really appreciative if someone a little wiser than me could give their two cents, and maybe with something from Scripture to help clarify for me. 😅

@Bioboy590

6 күн бұрын

God created us to love beauty, as image-bearers of Himself. We are His workmanship, and this includes everyone's bodies. Aesthetic attraction is what you could experience towards a sunset, a puppy, or another human being--it's simply an appreciation of beauty. The lust condemned in the Bible is not the same as sexual attraction. It's when someone's sexual temptation leads to them imagining and plotting how to have sex with someone who couldn't become their sexual partner. There's a reason Jesus said this lust was akin to adultery, not a more broad word for sexual sin like pornea. Keep enjoying human beauty.

@LetTalesBeTold

3 күн бұрын

@@Bioboy590 thanks for the response! I appreciate having another perspective to mull over. God bless!

@lauraminton7935

13 сағат бұрын

God know your heart.

I’ve followed Rosaria’s voice for years! She’s brilliant and precious!! A BLESSING to our generation! Sean, THANK YOU for all you do to bring fantastic information to our hearts! And, if I may suggest in kindness, please consider brightening your lighting. The moodiness is just…well… distracting. God bless the walk we are all on… trying to love wholeheartedly in a broken world from wobbly knees.

Praise the Lord !!! ✝️🙌🏻. Thank you for this conversation and encouragement. Please pray for me. Know God Almighty knows 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻✝️🙌🏻✝️🙌🏻✝️🙌🏻💞💙

@GypsyGirl317

5 күн бұрын

God bless you with His Love, strength, comfort, peace and a fresh anointing of the Holy Spirit power. Yes, He knows, and He's got you in every aspect of your life. 😊🌿🙆🏻‍♀️❤🙏🏽

I agree almost 100% with Rosaria. I do think she uses the term heresy way too broadly and easily and does not make a good distinction between that and false teaching. When we think of false teachers they aren't ones that make mistakes of where a scripture passages in the Bible. I would certainly say side a, and affirming homosexuality is heresy. I would say side b, or celibate theology, would fall in the false teaching category. Second, I think she realized to heavily on church councils rather than the scriptures themselves. Church counsels are not our absolute and so we need to refer to the Bible. When she refers to Romans 7, I love that passage. But Paul is specifically talking about things that he is doing, and that is not he but sin living in him. He is doing the thing he hates, not just innate desire or attraction. And my final pushback is when Sean brought up Jesus and asked if Jesus could have had an attraction to women, she replied that Jesus could not lust. Of course. Lust is a sin. The question Sean asked and I think she avoided, is is the underlying attraction itself sinful. Those are small pushbacks on some things I think that could have been more clear. Just to be more clear, here is he is a belief that puts you outside of Christendom. It is rejecting core tenets of the Christian faith. Armenian and reformed theology, while being opposite sides of the spectrum, certainly one is right and one is wrong or they are both wrong about certain things, but we wouldn't say belief in one or the other is heresy, hopefully lol

@KM-zn3lx

6 күн бұрын

Agree. I found that irritating and overly legalistic. Sometimes ppl go from one extreme to the other, i.e. liberalism to legalism.

@KM-zn3lx

6 күн бұрын

I like her, but you can tell she interrupts Sean as if he's overly simplistic and he's actually has a doctorate degree! She's always ready to respond too quickly when he's trying to flesh out his point. It's sortof dismissive like she's in a lecture hall as the professor who doesn't like a point a student is making!

@fboettcher

3 күн бұрын

Except false teachings are heresy. But by the actual definition of heresy some true teachings can be heresy. So in the end we argue semantics.

Thank you, Sean. I love Rosaria. I'm praying for both of you.

Great conversation about in dwelling sin and repentance even if one doesn’t struggle with same sex attraction. Would love for you to include the references mentioned on the description if possible…

Great and insightful conversation

Our UK congregation is reviewing this topic as we speak ... I'm still struggling over Preston Sprinkles and Rosaria/Christopher Yuan's biblical understanding of SSA - thank you Sean for hosting on the back of Prestons recent sessions...

Sean - Thank you for your ongoing work of joining grace and truth together through your podcast. Rosaria - Thank you for being the prophetess we never wanted but so desperately need at a time like this. See you both in glory. Peace. John 15:13

@qwerty-so6ml

Күн бұрын

Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.

Wow great conversation thank you

Important topics! Rosaria is a treasure! And you too of course, Sean!

Did Rosaria write a book about this specific topic? I would like to dive deep into more clearly

@markb3786

7 күн бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂There is ALWAYS a book!

Big 'fan' of Ms Butterfield ever since I first heard her testimony some years back. Been listening to her and so glad she changed her mind of the idea of 'conversion therapy' (do not like that term)- for me the idea of being same sex attracted was the result of a disordered affection, something that I knew to be sin, there was never a doubt in my mind that it was not what God intended for mankind. and if this were the case, He had a way of overcoming it. Christ died to heal our broken hearts, set the captive free from the bondage of our sin, which SSA is. Those of us in Christ are no longer slaves to the sin of SSA, but are now children of God. Why would anyone want to be identified with their past sin when Christ set us free from our former captor and transferred us into the kingdom of God?

@RationalistMH

Күн бұрын

So are you now straight? Or just closeted and pretending you’re not gay? You can drop the label, that won’t change reality

If the temptaion is sin even if not acted upon and Jesus was tempted by the devil, wouldn' t one have to conclude that jesus sinned and we know He did not. Or was the temptation of Jesus different than ours in that He felt no internal struggle? Does this question make sense ?

@SeanMcDowell

7 күн бұрын

Great question. His temptation is external and concupiscence is internal to fallen humans.

@corelife8442

7 күн бұрын

@@SeanMcDowell What do you mean His temptation is external?

@PC-vg8vn

6 күн бұрын

@@SeanMcDowell From my understanding the NT simply refers to temptation to sin and therefore distinguishes between temptation and sin. Sin happens when you make the decision to act. The difference between us and Jesus is he never made that decision, not that he wasnt tempted as we are tempted.

Attraction is a complex biological, emotional thing. People can’t control it. I can’t see how something that isn’t under our conscious control is a sin. If someone is born with their hormones or brain chemistry out of whack, how is that a sin? What evidence or reasoning does she have to show that feeling attraction to someone inappropriate is “indwelling sin”?

@amalek2750

7 күн бұрын

Intersexed people exist. Whether the church wants to acknowledge their reality or not is another matter. The closest correlation I have heard is to compare intersexed people to eunuchs. When left without intersexed people in the Bible, the next closest analogy would be a eunuch for some. Some Christians cannot handle that God made male and female back in the Garden, and then these pesky intersexed people show up!(Said with humor and grace.)

@cathy7382

7 күн бұрын

I totally agree with you she fails to have a balanced view of people like me who have for the majority of my life have had same sex attractions and in my opinion just loads on the guilt I think Jesus understands all of our struggles I'm glad that He can sympathize with us if one repents over attractions and not develop heterosexual attractions as she has then you're in some kind of nether land

@glenliesegang233

7 күн бұрын

Sin is any natural process which produces pleasure (or, avoidance of pain) in the short run but damages the individual and the people connected to that individual, ultimately moving the entire history of humanity in a more fallen, more damaged and pain-fliied world, further from receiving the blessings God intended. Lust is sexual desire without seeing, knowing that the object of one's lust is a person who bears the Image of God, and does not deserve the long-trem consequences of action on those sexual desires. Why is "hooking up" or living together or "monogomish or open marriage "sin"? Why shouldn't the Church accept these as the new norms and "Get off of condrmnation" and "Get over the outmoded, archaic beliefs that morality does not change with time and culture." Is there any evidence a secular person should know about which has a bearing on whether these sexual unions should be fully accepted as "normal" and should not have societal condemnatiin or discouragement and our young educated to shun them? Look up the statistics, which the CDC and WHO have collected and what analysis of the data shows. I think the CDC statistics speak volumes. I think the emotional and physical suffering, especially in women, which results from open sexuality, with abortion carrying its own long term consequences, when analyzed scientifically, clearly demonstrates that to follow sexual desire outside of long-term, committed intimacy, has severely painful long term damage. Why is societal and church blessings of same sex unions in the same way as traditional marriage?

@paulajames6149

7 күн бұрын

Sin is “missing the mark”. Scriptures and Rosario stated that desire is a “sin”. It is not for our good and our flourishing.

@fhengal

7 күн бұрын

A good part of the answer to this is not just looking at attraction alone, but also foregrounding how one views attraction, based on the kinds of things the Bible says can happen to a person and how sin (not just the sins we consciously choose but also being born post-Fall and living with those consequences that affect everything about how we live from day to day) affects us. It's also based on the definition of what sin is. To make an analogy, people who have been diagnosed with depression can't necessarily control whether they are depressed. However, most people who experience depression would not say that it's a good thing, nor would they choose to be depressed. After all, clinical depression is a mental illness; it's not considered desirable or the ideal of healthy functioning. Sometimes doing (or not doing) the things depression motivates a person to do (or not do) are harmful and less than ideal. So, if attraction is part of the emotional center of a person (and I believe it is), that part of a person can be corrupted by sin just like any other part of a person. It's not exempt. To expound more generally, I know that there are certain things that should make me happy and fill me with joy, but sometimes I just don't feel the way I ought to feel. God doesn't want us to feel in ways that would lead us into conscious sin, and yet we observe that we sometimes do feel those ways. This absurdity of our minds and hearts not working properly is attributed to the sin that lives in us. Sin is (stated baldly and literally) "missing the mark," thereby not doing, feeling, or thinking the way that one should in a way that honors God and his commands. Just like how people with mental illnesses often have to check themselves and their own thoughts and feelings so that they re-evaluate and don't always act on them, likewise people that want to honor God have to check and re-evaluate their thoughts and feelings in the light of what God says in the Bible. As far as an actual Bible verse goes, there's 2 Corinthians 10:5 which talks about "taking every thought captive and making it obedient to Christ." That includes our own stray, random, and sometimes sinful thoughts. If thoughts (even unbidden, unintentional thoughts) can be disobedient to Christ, then they can sometimes be sinful, including thoughts or feelings of attraction. Butterfield's evidence is that it's sinful to feel anything (as well as entertain or agree with one's feelings) that would lead one to do something displeasing to God. Even the Old Testament warns against "hating your brother in your heart" (Leviticus 19:17-18), and that can include a broad range of emotions from a flash-in-the-pan of annoyance to outright premeditated malice. Matthew 5:21-26 is another such verse about emotions where Jesus warned against being angry toward a brother because that is sinful.

So, her viewpoint is, if you are a Christian, and despite repentance and pleading prayer you are still experiencing same sex attraction (and have not developed opposite sex attraction), you should remain celibate and keep quite about it.

@Bioboy590

6 күн бұрын

She believes you are in sin until you no longer experience any same sex desire. She doesn't understand that temptation requires an underlying desire. Jesus couldn't have been tempted to turn a rock into bread if He didn't have a desire for bread. She doesn't understand this relationship, which is clearly explained in James 1:14-15.

@heartofalegend

6 күн бұрын

On what planet do you come up with that conclusion, after hearing what she said? I don't think you actually believe your own words, unless you are stupid. Rather, you are willfully choosing to view her words erroneously because it serves you in some way to do so. Don't do that.

@heartofalegend

6 күн бұрын

@@Bioboy590 You're not following. The issue is indwelling sin, which comes from our being in Adam. Each day, our desires are askew from what they should be, simply because of the Fall. This is why, daily, we need to be in an attitude of repentance and mortification of the flesh. Doing so will keep ungodly desires from growing into sinful practice.

@Bioboy590

6 күн бұрын

@@heartofalegend I basically agree with that, but she is saying the concupiscence (aka innate draw towards sin) is itself a baby sin. This is wrong, but she just claims it's a universally agreed historical church position, which is also untrue.

@heartofalegend

6 күн бұрын

@@Bioboy590 She is pointing to Romans 7 as an example of this. She's not just conjuring up this concept out of thin air, as one woman on an island, alone with her unbiblical notions. There's a REASON the reformed confessions affirm this. It is the ESSENCE of total depravity. There's nothing good that resides in us. We are not just to be in repentance for sinS we commit, but we are to be in daily repentance of SIN that dwells in us, causing us to not love God as we ought nor think of others as we ought. Indwelling sin is what causes us to have to actively kill our daily bent toward pride and selfishness and other disordered desires such as lust and same sex attraction. The latter does not get a pass. That's her point. I think it would be worthwhile for you to look over the materials she referred to. This for too long as been a neglected area of theology and the consequences of it are being fully manifested. We have to understand this.

I agree so completely!!! Kill desire when it's small!!! PRAISE GOD FOR THIS TEACHING! I USED TO THINK DESIRE WAS NOT SIN AND JUST HOVERED OVER IT!!!! WE NEED THIS TEACHING!!!!!❤❤❤

Thank you VERY MUCH. As Rosaria says, the Truth may sting.... Still, let's go for it! God will reveal himself to those who seek Him sincerely!

Rosaria mentions the "first step in repentance" at one point. Where can I read about the steps of repentance in more depth?

@lastchance8142

7 күн бұрын

Good question. Don't know if that shows up biblically in any list, so to speak. From experience, the first step is always agreeing with God that something is indeed sin without excuses. The next step is committing yourself to "turn around", and leave it behind. Probably the third step is asking for God's mercy! Finally, if possible, restoring anyone you hurt with your sin, or at least apologizing. Depending on the sin, it can be a hard road. Jesus didn't mince words. He said "cut it off", and "pluck it out". "Take up your cross and follow me". The cross always means suffering and death. Like any sin, it would have been better if we never did it.

@genotriana3882

7 күн бұрын

Step 1: Admit your need to be healed and that you are incapable of healing your brokenness apart from God. Step 2: Believe that God is in the business of healing people through His Son’s work on the cross. Step 3: Trust in His forgiveness and ability to heal you. There are 9 more steps included Christian recovery curriculums. Agreeing with God is one of them. Sex addiction, taking an identity in something other than God, and idolatry of romantic relationships aren’t much different than addictions to drugs and alcohol. We are all doing what Adam was doing in the garden.

@paulajames6149

7 күн бұрын

“For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death. For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter.” ‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭7‬:‭10‬-‭11‬ ‭ESV‬‬

I can't believe there are some evangelicals who would say homosexual desire "is not sin". I think God made it clear through Jesus that the desires of the heart are transparent to Him, and often equated with the sin itself. If I desire to steal, should I say I'm clean because I don't steal? If I desire to have sex with a married woman, am I clean because I don't do it? Rather, isn't my desire something to repent of? Something I should war against and be sactified from?

@amalek2750

7 күн бұрын

Is temptation sin? Jesus must have sinned because He was surely tempted by the Devil in the wilderness.. Unless you don't believe that and that it is a fairy tale. I believe it actually happened.

@NicholaWallace

7 күн бұрын

​@@amalek2750the devil tempted Jesus to sin but Jesus didn't have a desire in his heart to sin. That is a big difference. You need to work out from where the temptation is coming. Satan or your own flesh. You can't blame all of your sin on Satan. People have been doing that since the fall of Adam and Eve.

@kimngandong

7 күн бұрын

​​​@@amalek2750don't you understand that outside temptation doesn't mean that one is actually tempted? Someone can tempt you all they want but you can not be budged a bit. Don't blame outside influence for your own weakness and lust. That's why God gives everyone chances for repentance, even when we only sin in our thoughts. Yes, Satan tempted Jesus but did our Lord budge even a little? Did Jesus accept any of Satan's offers or feel tempted to accept them at all?

@amalek2750

7 күн бұрын

@@kimngandong So, if there was no desire or temptation to sin, why in the world did He fast for 40 days and 40 nights?! There is NO purpose to that other than that it was necessary to forego the temptation. Seriously, if you can tell me another probable reason *why* He fasted, I will take that into account. And, no, "because the Father told Him to" is not specific insight. He was buffeting His body so that the spiritual world would come more clearly into focus and provide strength. If you have ever fasted, you would know the mind/body connection. Otherwise, it is a pointless exercise.

@isoldam

7 күн бұрын

Intention is required for something to be a sin. If a man looks at a woman, not his wife, immediately feels attraction, but then turns his head and thoughts away, he has not sinned. If the same man continues to look and begins to think about how nice it would be to cheat with her, then he has sinned. Same-sex attraction works the same way. Merely having a disordered desire is not sinful.

I dont think the Bible splits the atom between repenting of original sin vs fleeing temptation. Fleeing is the fruit of repentance. Two sides of the same coin. We should recognize and reject sin in thought or deed. However if there was no sexual attraction of any kind before marriage, nobody would ever marry, and nobody would be here!! I reject the notion that God uses sin for us to be fruitful and multiply. Attraction and lust are not the same thing. Paul instructs people to marry that require a non sinful outlet for sexual desire. Has anyone read Song of Solomon?

@JasonDBennett

6 күн бұрын

Some of us don't believe we're guilty of original sin; we believe we're guilty of our own sins. Original sin caused us to be born with a sin nature. Then Jesus saved us from it. Calvinistic theology puts an extra burden on those already weighed down by same-sex attractions.

@natorousab

2 күн бұрын

That's an interesting point about desire between a couple that wishes to marry, since it is instrumental in God's design. Although I might consider such a desire to be in a different category from desires that lead to destruction.

So excited for this conversation! I loved both of your segments at the Kingdom Come Conference in FL and was hoping you would get together for a discussion on this at some point since you, Sean, have discussed the side B position in some of your videos. So grateful for both of you and your faithfulness to the Word!

@SeanMcDowell

7 күн бұрын

Awesome, let us know what you think!

@tiffanydaniel8996

7 күн бұрын

Wow! Had no idea it happened! I used to teach at Westminster. I would’ve loved to gone 😭

My goodness, Rosaria is a gift from God right now. This was a beautiful conversation, and the summary is so freeing: God was right! Which is the heart of repentance. So many great takeaways: 1. Jesus was tempted "in all ways" only means he was tempted EXTERNALLY by Satan with the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life and Jesus resisted them all using Scripture. Jesus had no internal sinful desire, which we all have, and the subject of this whole convo. 2. Absolutely fascinating the tie-into Armenianism. I don't mean to be uncharitable, but I feel "free will" is an idol for many. And so it is awesome to see Sean wrestle with this. This whole conversation is about the heart, isn't it, and we cannot change our heart. We throw ourselves on God's mercy and ask Him to give us a new heart, desires and all. But only He can do it. But that is why this convo is hard for Armenians--they are so hung up on they didn't "ask" for the sinful desire so they are not accountable for them? EEP, Jesus made it clear sinful desire is the same as the act. Lust = adultery = idolatry.

I have difficulty taking Romans 7 out of the context of Romans 8, and especially the 1st verse. Romans 8:1 feels like where Paul is always heading with Romans 7. It's the good news that he can't wait to get to. A part of me wants to point out that it isn't the work of repentance that gets us to Romans 8, it's faith in Christ's blood and what it purchased for me. A part of me wants to point out that Christ took on all my sins, past, present, and future, and the cross feels like a big asterisk next to any conversation about my responsibility for my sin. A part of me wants to point out that, in talking about the sin living in me in chapter 7, Paul also says he is not the one doing the sinning. But another part of me wonders whether I am not giving enough emphasis to repentance and the "walking in the Spirit" that is one of the themes in chapter 8. Maybe the point is that I am supposed to live with the tension? I certainly don't feel like I've wrapped my stubby intellectual arms all the way around this issue and can interlock my fingers on the other side.

@amalek2750

7 күн бұрын

You are not alone. Yes, the blood of Jesus. How weird and sad that all these heavy discussions exist with the Blood absent.

@humblewatchman1673

7 күн бұрын

Repentance has been pushed aside in modern forums and made to be some kind of “work” that is antiquated, or even misinformed theology, yet there’s a real freedom that accompanies the repentance that the Word speaks about so frequently from beginning to end. The Doctrine of Repentance by Thomas Watson is a masterful book worth picking up.

@markalbis1543

7 күн бұрын

agree becoz i believe on the two natures of the believer.

@Anabee3

7 күн бұрын

I relate.

@KM-zn3lx

7 күн бұрын

@humble...as a former Catholic I used to participate in confession to a priest but never felt I told all my sins, instead I would only divulge the most surface acceptable sins and do the penance, which never felt absolving. Then I told my husband what I was going through and he told me that was one of the main issues Martin Luther had. After the last horrible confession I came home, knelt and told the real high priest, Jesus my sins. I felt so much love and forgiveness. Repentance is a beautiful humbling healing because it repairs your relationship with the Lord!

What about opposite sex lust? I think that's alot more pervasive than gay attractions

@amalek2750

7 күн бұрын

Yes. And it is really not discussed that often, considering how rampant it is. When I was in my teens and 20's, there was still talk of wanting to save oneself for marriage. Now Christians live together before marriage, and no one blinks an eye. Rosario *could* be addressing that as more of an emphasis. But we are so afraid of people leaving the church because they want to continue to shack up. I believe that's the answer. It's easier to focus on same sex attracted people and keep the pews full by not offending the heterosexuals living together. The Church may counsel teens, but adults are too risky to confront. They might leave. Many years ago, I heard K.C. Price say to a packed auditorium (church service): "Ladies, if you are not married, you need to keep your panties on ". Exact words. You could have heard a pin drop Respect for his boldness.

@RoseyPosey545

7 күн бұрын

👏👏👏

@paulajames6149

7 күн бұрын

They spoke of this a couple times. One specific time was the ending referring to whether Jesus would have an attraction to a man or a woman. The desire for the same sex is disordered and so it is different.

@captainmartin1219

7 күн бұрын

​@@amalek2750 Christians should be talking about all sin. However I do think the LGBTQ thing is unique. Most people would not argue the other things are a sin,but the sexual sins get heavy resistance by people and the government.

@amalek2750

7 күн бұрын

@@captainmartin1219 I don't know who you mean as to "most people would not argue heterosexual fornication is not sin.." By the acceptance of premarital sex and living together as very common among Christians, I would say that the silence is deafening. Reread my post if you want to understand my point. Or don't🙂 I personally don't see it as unique. At least those engaging in heterosexual fornication can always say, "Well, we're getting married anyway" as they continue to shack up.

Yes! Can’t wait for this! Love Rosaria Butterfield and recently finished The Gospel Comes with a House Key. Listen to Ruslan too. So I’ve seen the back and forth between the Side B and Side X and Y folk. I agree most with Rosaria’s perspective. Hopefully in this interview she lays it all down in a clear and graceful manner, because I would like to see siblings in Christ come to an agreement on this issue, even if their soteriological perspectives differ from or even oppose each other.

Thank you Rosario for staying in the fight. Your clarity is very helpful.

Don't understand 1:26 . What are we hearing?

my past sins , todays' sins and my future sins HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST!!!To say this is not so is to say the sacrifice of Jesus was not enough. To continue to beat myself up over things I can't undo is playing right into the devil's hand. Why will the church not allow Jesus save with no buts attached?

Because the central issue being discussed here is SO complex and layered, it is unfair to use the label "heresy" for those who have a different viewpoint on this issue. Rosaria's interpretation of Romans 7 is not error free and without question. Also the Church Councils do not speak as clearly to this issue as she pretends. They made larger theological statements to help clarify bigger center circle issues. This type conversation was not even in their framework. Rosaria has a sincere heart and thinks deeply on this issue. She is a great resource. But her continual misrepresentation of people like Preston Sprinkle and her refusal to engage in the conversation with those she has clearly misrepresented speaks to her unwillingness to handle this in a biblical manner and talk to other sincere scholars who BIBLICALLY disagree with her. PS - concupiscence is not a term found in the Scripture ... so there's that baseline contradiction in her "just read the Bible" approach.

It might be helpful to table the heresy aspect of this discussion. Since that seems more specific to the reformed confessions, it may not register with believers who (sadly) have no use or regard for these things. Rather, keep the focus on indwelling ungodly desire and our need to repent and kill it.

@joparker9052

3 күн бұрын

Yes, I agree. Because it really is an important topic.

brilliant!

I haven’t watched this yet, but idk how you can support Sprinkles unless you just haven’t researched what he actually says (not what he claims) in his conferences and videos. Im glad you’re having Rosaria regardless.

Is this conversation over same sex attraction being a sin? Or the way same sex attracted Christian’s label themselves after they come to Jesus? I’m confused Trying to figure out the context It seems that most evangelical churches don’t divide on IF its a sin but what they do in response to it How they label themselves or not label themselves Logically looking at it, it seems that IF it’s a sin and God calls us to walk away from sin and forgives us We are not labeled that SIN anymore For an example, other sins like addiction, gossip, etc you wouldn’t greet people as Hi, I am an ex gossiper Although I may have a weakness in that area I just look at it like I need accountability and to surrender that weakness daily This convo seemed so complicated 🤣🤣 Just wish there was more clearer language around this topic

Hi Sean. Would you consider having Preston Sprinkle on as well so we can understand his opinion on the differences?

In Romans 1:26, Paul calls them “dishonorable passions” which indicates that the desires itself are sinful, not just the actual physical acts.

@qwerty-so6ml

Күн бұрын

Heterosexuality is a sin. Angels left their first estate to fornicate. Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.

Great, great job, wow, thank you Lord for the honest, honest truth Mrs Rosera had the courage to share, warning us all that our sin will find us out. Thank you Sean for having her. What an excellent, excellent interview 🙏👍🙏

Masturbation?.....WAIT, WHAT? Is that a sin?

@stephenmac191

6 күн бұрын

Yes, that is a sin.

@B.Y.DDreams-et6up

4 күн бұрын

Definitely

@adamr.6889

4 күн бұрын

Jesus says that if we even look at another with lust, we've committed adultery in our heart

I was interested by the idea of covetousness as a sin in this discussion. It seems like it shouldn't be a sin, since I don't actively choose to covet my neighbor's goods- I just discover that I already do. Yet, I'm still responsible for it, because it comes from my heart, even if it is unbidden. Philosophically, this seems to suggest that my identity is not only in my consciousness self but also my unconscious self, even if they are not always aligned.

A well-defined approach to pursuing and maintaining the heterosexual lifestyle, based on biblical ethics and praxis, particularly in the prevailing context of aggressive projections of sexual preferences and orientations.

1:19:54 "I can talk privately about that footnote, because you need to know that there's public repentance." If these footnoted people/groups have changed and had "public repentance", why not say who they are publicly??

I cant see her the same way. She takes shots at Preston Sprinkle yet he's said he's tried to speak with both her and Alisa Childers, offline or online, their choice, and they've declined. That too me is unchristian and shady. It's hard to see her and Alisa the same way. Poor taste.

@wnorwood1

7 күн бұрын

It's interesting to me that she would agree to be on Sean's channel when he's had Preston Sprinkle on a few times.

@KM-zn3lx

7 күн бұрын

There's alot wrong with Preston Sprinkle. A person doesn't need to engage every person they disagree with. Some people, like Preston, Andy Stanley, Russell Moore, etc. will not change their minds because that's the audience they get money from!

@davidjay_

6 күн бұрын

@@KM-zn3lx The cottage industry works both ways. You don't honestly think the reformed community is above having their own share of blind spots and idolatry. Ironic that she mentions the recently reported (and very sad) downfall of pastors -- many of whom, incidentally, are from the reformed community. That tells you that perfect articulation and understanding of doctrine doesn't change behavior let alone lead one to abundant life.

@heartofalegend

6 күн бұрын

@@davidjay_ I may just not be thinking clearly at the moment, but did you say that many of the recently fallen pastors are reformed? I honestly don't know of any, other than Matt Chandler, who does not actually seem to be "fallen" per se, based on what I understand about his situation.

@heartofalegend

6 күн бұрын

@@wnorwood1 Of course she would. She made it clear that she cares about Sean as a brother, and always welcomes the opportunity to have open dialogue on this subject. She knows her voice is one that is vital on this channel, to counteract the erroneous approach to this subject that is too often platformed. Thank the Lord for Sean's willingness to give her just as much consideration as he does with other people, with whom he disagrees. I'm grateful that he doesn't play favorites. Whatever I may think of the zany hijinks that too often play out on his show, I respect Sean for showing just as much respect for Rosaria as he does for someone like Preston Sprinkle.

Lust is an evil spirit! If you are lusting you are in fellowship with demons! Christians who lust cannot be saved unless they repent and seek deliverance from this spirit!

I love Rosario, I love her story, I love her love of God and His word. She makes feel uncomfortable, steps on my toes and challenges me. After listening to her the first time with Sean I have listened to her on several other occasions. My initial thought was I don’t (didn’t) hold to the first point that same sex attraction is a sin but I would say that we need to “fight it”, not let it grow into something bigger. As I was listening this morning I was convicted that either both of those things have to be true (it’s a sin and needs to be fought) or neither of them are true. It’s inconsistent to think it’s not a sin but needs to be fought. Since I would be unwavering that same sex attraction has to be “fought” I need to be consistent that it is a sin. My last point or question would be on Celibacy. I get the impression that Rosario would neither encourage or celebrate celibacy. Is it OK to encourage and even celebrate celibacy if it is presented as the first step and not the final step?

Rosaria might not like me to say it, but she is discussing what Catholics call "original sin" in a very engaging way. (Beginning at 17:18)

@RationalistMH

Күн бұрын

The Catholic Church does not teach that same sex attraction is itself sinful, though.

i believe in the two natures of the Christian(the sinful nature and the new nature). a christian is operating in the sinful nature of he/she yields to temptation. ex. SSA. He/she is operating in the new nature if he/she doesn't yield to temptation. Rom. 13:14,

I’ve passed this on to many who are confused because even though Romans tells you what God thinks about it, the churches seem to be supporting it by not preaching sin, repentance, and forgiveness. Thank you.

The young people only think of the here and now, sin brings consequences years later-- the young and inexperienced need to be warned.

Jesus delt will all human desires.. 40 days in wildernes with full on temptations. He put himself everytime under autority of Gods Word on Gods terms. No twisting, no whote washing or changing.

Well to be more precise it states " resist the devil IN ALL HIS WAYS and he will flee from you

Aside from the bible, I wonder if any opinion should be formed and/or changed based on just one article /paper.

Jesus was tempted in the desert, if temptations are sins then you would have to say Jesus sinned which he didnt. I would be interested in hearing her answer to this

Rosaria doesn't believe Jesus was fully human. She only believes He was fully God with human appearance (even if she doesn't say this explicitly). This false gospel is the source of her confusion. In her mind, Jesus couldn't be tempted in every manner as we are, because Jesus is not as we are and lacks the human desires that can be exploited by temptation. This view is heretical and cheapens the perfect life of Christ as well as His humanity. I wish people would stop platforming this false gospel.

@leahparker9033

5 күн бұрын

What's your source for this?

@Bioboy590

5 күн бұрын

​​@@leahparker9033 1:23:15 She affirms that Jesus' unique calling means He was incapable of even being sexually attracted to women (or men). This is a heretical Christology that undermines the humanity of Christ. Jesus was both God and human equally per the Athanasian Creed. Jesus had his own human, fleshly will, but He perfectly submitted that will to the will of the Father as our perfect example (Jn 5:30, Jn 6:38, Lk 22:42). Hebrews 4:15 is clear Jesus was tempted in EVERY manner as we are, yet without sin. Rosaria doesn't believe "every" means "every." She thinks that Jesus only faced a few "extreme" external temptations, not that He was tempted in every respect as we are.

@leahparker9033

5 күн бұрын

@@Bioboy590 Oh dear. That's too bad.

@scottmccoy127

5 күн бұрын

@@Bioboy590 I agree that Hebrews 4:15 is the essential verse in this conversation. It seems to be clear, as you say, that the manner in which we experience temptation is the same exact manner that Jesus experienced temptation, and yet He never sinned, while we do. This would mean that temptation, while a result of the fall and something to be fought against, is not a sin we must repent of.

@heartofalegend

4 күн бұрын

@@Bioboy590 I would respectfully suggest that many of us need to do a good solid study on the humanity of Christ and what temptations were even feasible for Him to experience, since He had no fallen nature. There are crackpots out there that take the verse in Hebrews to mean that Jesus experienced every single solitary temptation that collective humanity has experienced, no matter how extreme. In other words, He was tempted with incest, homosexuality, bestiality, transgenderism, pedophilia and the like. That is insane. There was a limit and a scope to what was even tempting to the perfect son of God, even in His humanity, which was also perfect and not fallen. We need to get a firmer grasp on this area of theology.

The word repentance in Mark is in vs 4, right at the beginning. Even before the Messiah could preach and begin his ministry the people of the country in general needed to repent!

One of my favorite guests ever. Needed so much.

Paul says in Rom 1 that homosexuals receive the penalty that is due. That penalty was given by God in Leviticus. When will Rosaria find the courage to call for God's justice against SSA?

@qwerty-so6ml

Күн бұрын

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. If you judge by the law, YOU WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW.

@RationalistMH

Күн бұрын

So you want to kill gay people? And you think you’re a ‘moral’ and ‘godly’ person, right? What a disgusting human being. Truly evil.

@whomever21

Күн бұрын

@@qwerty-so6ml I would say we should agree to disagree but Rosaria is right: This is an issue we must divide over, like the Methodists. No one can be called a Christian who does not condemn the wicked. I stand with Rosaria the Righteous! 🤣

@qwerty-so6ml

23 сағат бұрын

@@whomever21 Heterosexuality is a sin. Angels left their first estate to fornicate. Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.

Kudos (:

we're not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners.There is a bend in our nature thanks to Adam but praise be God He still loves us. The blood of His Son is invested in us. God wants us to make it to heaven. WOW!!!

@qwerty-so6ml

Күн бұрын

Don't blame Adam for YOUR sin. Your sin was from the foundation of the world. Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels (ELOHIM) kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of ELOHIM(gods). REPENT FALLEN ANGELS.

Jesus: who lust for an other woman in his heart... already commited adultery.. So sin is even a wrong desire.

Whatever arguments are made for same-sex relationships have to be allowed for all paraphilia.

@RationalistMH

Күн бұрын

There are many heterosexual ‘paraphilias’ in case you weren’t aware

@DonswatchingtheTube

Күн бұрын

@@RationalistMH Fully aware, that's why I said paraphilia instead of one narrow segment that comes under it. Heterosexual sex outside of wedlock is also rejected in Christianity. Why would a non-believer care if Christianity doesn't conduct their wedding ceremonies?

Does it dawn on you that God does not have different laws for people regardless? The lord is the same and equal for all. Give that some thought…..

Sin is any natural process which produces pleasure (or, avoidance of pain) in the short run but damages the individual and the people connected to that individual, ultimately moving the entire history of humanity in a more fallen, more damaged and pain-fliied world, further from receiving the blessings God intended. Lust is sexual desire without seeing, knowing that the object of one's lust is a person who bears the Image of God, and does not deserve the long-trem consequences of action on those sexual desires. Why is "hooking up" or living together or "monogomish or open marriage "sin"? Why shouldn't the Church accept these as the new norms and "Get off of condrmnation" and "Get over the outmoded, archaic beliefs that morality does not change with time and culture." Is there any evidence a secular person should know about which has a bearing on whether these sexual unions should be fully accepted as "normal" and should not have societal condemnatiin or discouragement and our young educated to shun them? Look up the statistics, which the CDC and WHO have collected and what analysis of the data shows. I think the CDC statistics speak volumes. I think the emotional and physical suffering, especially in women, which results from open sexuality, with abortion carrying its own long term consequences, when analyzed scientifically, clearly demonstrates that to follow sexual desire outside of long-term, committed intimacy, has severely painful long term damage. Why is societal and church blessings of same sex unions in the same way as traditional marriage?

I am going thru, "Enduring Word's" church history series. Excellent! Let us not confuse every doctrine on what sin is as "heresy". Okay? There were much discussion on "heresies" that are peripheral disagreements. Those men were fallible, as well. Let us reason together on scripture, NOT what a church father said was heresy. I am NOT a Calvinist, for example. I am a Christ following, Bible loving, creation of Christ. I do not like the Church label camps that took place in church history. Otherwise, I agree with so much in Rosarria's convictions on this topic. The church is culpable for making this a "special- let's dance around it- kind of sin". I have always been puzzled by that. The Bride of Christ needs to get back to being THAT, not ashamed of our who our "groom" is. Come Lord Jesus.

Jesus said that if someone lusted they were guilty of adultery we are guilty of sin by what we think and feel. Good news; we can ask God to forgive us, quote a scripture to ourselves when we have those thoughts or feelings come up and ask God to bless us with sanctification in Jesus’ name. We need to mortify sin AND ask for sanctification otherwise aren’t we acting as if we are cleansing ourselves instead of relying on Jesus who is mighty to save? No amount of our own effort will change us fundamentally, only Jesus can do that. Like water to wine he makes us something else. I mortify sin by calling on God in Jesus name apologizing for the sin in my mind and heart, affirming that I choose Him, and asking to be filled with the Holy Ghost so the “house” of my spirit is cleaned and filled so sin can’t fill it again. Jesus became sin and was voluntarily killed. All sin dies on the cross of Christ, we are cleansed of it by acknowledging it as sin and affirming as many times as we have to that we choose Him not sin.

1 John 3:15. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer. Therefore sin is a deep disposition of the heart. Too me that says whether or not you act on the feeling or desire.

@JasonDBennett

6 күн бұрын

Anger is a great comparison. Murderous rage is a choice someone makes instead of being angry without sinning. Lust is the same way. Not all erotic feelings are sexual. If a man ignores the warning signs along the way and goes down the slippery slope to lust, he's not being wise. If he engages lust, he is sinning.

She makes some interesting points, like it would be better to repent before you fall into sin, while it is still an attraction. If that is possible. There are degrees of brokeness. I had a friend growing up who could quit smoking cigarette on dime. I could not so so for a half hour. He wasnt a christian, i was. Butbthen God did a miracle and i no longer had a desire for cigarettes. I was willing to let it go, but hd no will power. It wasnt until my mid fities that i started to understand how broken i was. No doubt for sime people hear the nessage to repent will be helpful, but for others it would be discouraging and condemning leading to despaire. I found Romans 4:5 was my only source of confidence " but to the one who does not work but believes in yhe god who declaires the wicked righteous, his faith shall be reconded as righteousness. As bad as I am, God accepts me through christ.

Jist for claeification im straight, anyway,See the thing i thing he messed up on when he said that "there was some people with even some conservatives that agreed and said same sex attraction is not a sin" and then after speaking he said that but it is a sin or something along those lines, however, the bible speaks on how things like thoughts and lusts and so on and on are dangerous and im paraphrasing of course but to stay clear from temptations and to resist those lusts and thoughts and so forth because in itself an attraction isnt the sin its whether or not someone acts upon it thats the sin, as it clearly states in the bible, resist the devil and he will flee from you

She’s sooooo close to understanding free will response, just let go of Augustinian gnosticism and realize he wasn’t a “church father”.

@MrSeedi76

7 күн бұрын

The whole of evangelicalism is basically a gnostic heresy. The people in it just don't see it.

It could just be me, but Sean seemed pretty annoyed/irritated in this interview. I got the impression he couldn’t wait to end the call :P

@SeanMcDowell

Күн бұрын

It was the opposite. Loved it and wish we could have gone further. That’s my analytical face 😁

Dont use world Philosophy to talk to people in therapy. That's why they need biblical counseling. The Bible says do not be conformed to this world. Will be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may approve. What is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God? That type of mindset leads to vein, deceit and more questions. Instead of going directly to the Bible. The Bible brings clarity. The world philosophy leads more questions and confusion.

Also... As a balancer against the Uber staunch calvinistic view there, how was JESUS tempted even sexually "LIKE US in EVERY way" Maybe desirig a family etc if the pure desire IS SIN. Just want to soften the idea there for some because coupability and freedom go together else we are fatalistic robots. I also agree JESUS temptations were FAR different than ours ie WE THE REDEEMED as Sean clarified ARE JESUS family (is53). THANK YOU AND AGREE WE NEED REPENTANCEBACK IN THE CHURCH.

why the argument - "chop off body parts" - finger nails, hair? appendix - galblatter ? tonsils? - i just dont understand biblically how that is an argument!

@tliw2

7 күн бұрын

Read the Gospels. It refers to specific words spoken by Jesus.

@Jasminestealth1

7 күн бұрын

@@tliw2 i think ya missed the point of the question... please share any scripture

@amalek2750

7 күн бұрын

Yes, half blind with one hand. We actually had a patient in the psychiatric ward at the hospital I worked at remove his eyeball. It ended up in the refrigerator in the lab where I worked🤐.​@@tliw2

@amalek2750

7 күн бұрын

Yes, half blind with one hand. We actually had a patient in the psychiatric ward at the hospital I worked at remove his eyeball. It ended up in the refrigerator in the lab where I worked🤐.​@@tliw2

@brittybee6615

7 күн бұрын

⁠@@Jasminestealth1What was the point of the question, then? Do you know around what time point in the interview you’re asking about?

I don't care what people say same sex marriage is wrong period

Loving sin... is wrong Idol an other God... leads you away from Jesus. You cannot have 2 lords. You will love the one and hate the other.

Just for everyone to know, Rosaria described herself as a policial lesbian and that´s not the same thing as being a gay.

@PC-vg8vn

6 күн бұрын

I understood her to be bisexual, rather than gay. If that is the case, whilst she can certainly experience same-sex attraction it is not quite the same as being gay when you only experience same-sex attraction and not at all to the opposite sex.

@Warhol-jb9zx

6 күн бұрын

@@PC-vg8vn In her recent book "Five lies our our anti-christian age" she writes: I never did call my lesbianism my sexual orientation..I believe it was an informed choice and a part of normal sexual fluidity".

@PC-vg8vn

5 күн бұрын

@@Warhol-jb9zx I dont even know what she means by 'an informed choice'. She's pandering to the extreme right who view simply having a gay sexual orientation as sinful, rather than behaviour. This explains why she even condemns the likes of Preston Sprinkle who actually agrees with her that same-sex sexual behaviour is sinful.

@Warhol-jb9zx

5 күн бұрын

@@PC-vg8vn who knows what she talks about but she was never gay apparantley and now she is promoting full blown westboro baptist church retoric...Let's pray for her!

I have to disagree with her labelling SSA (or any kind of attraction) as 'indwelling sin' and also confusing sexual attraction in general with coveting. A straight man may be attracted to women other than his wife. It is a biological desire made for the continuation of humanity. It doesn't mean he is coveting them. My understanding of coveting (which could be wrong) is that you set your desires on having something (or someone) that you cannot lawfully have. It's not simply, 'that's a nice car. I'd like one like that if I could afford it.' It's more like 'I want *his/her* car, I need to have it, regardless of if he/she wants to sell it to me.' You're fixated on having that specific person/thing, not simply passively desiring it, though I'm aware that rabbis have differed on definitions of covet.

Did she say it was safer to come out 30 years ago Than it is today? 😂 okay...

I'm trying to understand the difference between repentance and fleeing. I tend to think of repentance as doing a spiritual U-turn and heading in the opposite direction. Fleeing also seems like heading in the opposite direction. What is the critical distinction being made between the two?

@NicholaWallace

7 күн бұрын

Biblical repentance isn't doing a 180° turn on the road that you are on. It's turning off the road that you've been travelling on (the wide road to death) and walking on God's path (the narrow path to life). That's what Christianity is all about. Christ died so that we could have eternal life. Sin leads to "dying, you shall die" (Gen 2:17). God, by his grace will help you walk that path. Remember that none of us will be sinless until we receive our incorruptible bodies. Fleeing is running away, usually from the temptation to sin. The main thing with both of these words is more about recognising that something is ungodly so that you can make good choices about how to live life.

@kimngandong

7 күн бұрын

Repentance means you acknowledge your past sins/mistakes, feel truly sorry for your wrongdoings, determine to never repeat said sins again, and if possible, heal the damage caused by your actions. Fleeing, by contrast, means that you act in a cowardly way by not acknowledging your wrongdoings, taking responsibility for them, nor fixing the damage caused by your sins/mistakes. They are completely different.

@clarkemorledge2398

7 күн бұрын

@@kimngandong You have misunderstood what "fleeing" means. When Joseph fled from Potiphar's wife in Genesis 39:12, he was not fleeing from sin, as though he had sinned, and thus "act[ed] in a cowardly way." No, he fled from the temptation so that he would not sin. The difference between repentance and fleeing, is that we repent from our sin and we flee from temptation. Temptation, in and of itself, is not sin. Temptation is only sin when we have been caught in the web of sin in a repeated way. Sanctification is not simply about repenting from sin, it is also about fleeing from temptation so that we might not be sinning in the first place. We grow in sanctification by learning to flee from temptation before our actions, etc. lead us into sin. Repentance is necessary, but it is better not to sin in the first place. Sanctification is a life long process.

@phinehas68

5 күн бұрын

@@clarkemorledge2398 When you say that "temptation is only sin when we have been caught in the web of sin in a repeated way" on what do you base this? The Hebrew word for sin is "hamartia" which is an archery term that simply means to miss the mark. There doesn't appear to be anything about repetition in the idea. If you miss the mark once, you still miss the mark.

@clarkemorledge2398

4 күн бұрын

@@phinehas68 That is a good criticism: So, let me rephrase with an example. Once you get caught into a repeated pattern of sin, it gets more difficult to repent from it, as it can become learned behavior. So the actual sin itself can be a temptation to sin even more. But if one has not sinned in a particular area, then the temptation itself is not sinful. Too often, some Christians think that all temptation is sin, as though the very temptation itself is indicative of sin. This can not be true because of Hebrews 4:15 : "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin." When Jesus was tempted, Jesus was not sinning. He was tempted in a manner which did not implicate him in sin. We repent of our sin, whereas we resist or flee from temptation.

If desire is sinful, are you saying that Jesus sinned by desiring to avoid the cross, where his will clearly differed from the Father's will for him?

@SeanMcDowell

7 күн бұрын

Good question. Jared Moore offers an interesting response to this point in his book. I’m on the road or I’d put it here. Check out his book Lusts of the Flesh.

@phinehas68

7 күн бұрын

It isn't just desire, though. Rosaria specifically talks about desiring what God hates. I suppose you could argue that God hates Jesus avoiding the cross because then we all die in our sins. But it seems to me Jesus was specifically praying about finding a different way to offer redemption rather than not offering redemption at all. I'd be curious to hear more abut Jared Moore's take though.

@JohnVianneyPatron

7 күн бұрын

@@phinehas68 The key issue here is a definition of sin. Sin, you will agree, is the free and deliberate transgression of the law of God, so it can occur only in the rational will; though they are indeed temptations to sin, becoming the stronger and the more frequent the more they are indulged. However they become sins only when consent is given by the will; not as though its nature was changed, but because they are adopted and completed by the will and so share its offence. If you do a proper study of Romans 7 - St Paul complains about sinful temptation but maintains that he has the grace to resist it. This temptation to sin fights against the law of his mind and for the law of God and he relies on grace to deliver him from the conflict he is experiencing and strengthen his will to do good.

@phinehas68

5 күн бұрын

@@JohnVianneyPatron ~Hamartia~ (sin) is an archery term that simply means missing the mark. It does not necessarily imply that the mark was missed deliberately.

@phinehas68

5 күн бұрын

@@JohnVianneyPatron Between the verses where Paul talks about his struggle and the next chapter where he boldly claims there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, I find neither the word "resist" nor "repent." What I find is the word "rescue," reinforced by the word "delivers." In saying this, I am not trying to deny the importance of repentance, especially since it seems to be given priority by Jesus in his earthly ministry. But I am trying to recognize the tension I feel between the more passive "rescue" and the more active "repentance."

I don't care what people say same sex marriage is wrong period .

@MrSeedi76

7 күн бұрын

I'm pretty certain nobody cares what you say either.

@EphSix12

7 күн бұрын

There's no such thing as same sex marriage. You can call it that If you want but it's the equivalent of somebody who is a man telling you to call them a woman

@aymanseder5887

6 күн бұрын

@MrSeedi76 now my male dogs decided to be gay ! 🤷‍♂️

What she's saying doesn't make sense. What does same-sex attracted person who has chosen to live celibate have to repent of? How can you repent of a passive desire anyway? Can a poor person who can only afford 1 meal a day repent of a desire to have a full stomach? No! But the moment they start thinking, 'maybe I should steal some food', then they have something to repent of. Desires are not sins. Intentions and attitudes can be sins, but not passive desires. I don't really care about the appeal to Augustin. He introduced determinism into the church when prior church fathers all affirmed free will. He also made a straw man of Pelagius in order to push his infant baptism agenda (and taught damnation of unbaptized infants - a result of his made-up doctrine of original sin).

@SeanMcDowell

6 күн бұрын

Hi Daniel, I think she would make a distinction between same-sex desires, which are themselves unable to be carried out a way that align with God‘s design, and the desire for a full stomach, which is good.

@danielcartwright8868

5 күн бұрын

​@SeanMcDowell Hi Sean, first, thanks for taking the time to personally reply. Second, my language was a bit rude, so I edited my comment. But third, I still don't see how one can 'repent' of a passive desire. 'Repent' means to make a turn around - a change of directiom, but if you've already resolved not to act on those desires, what more is there to do? Slap yourself on the wrist when you feel those feelings? Maybe a better analogy would be someone who is full and then smells delicious food and their mouth waters. For them to eat would be to engage in gluttony (thus could not be carried out in a Godly manner), but how can you repent of your mouth watering?

@RationalistMH

Күн бұрын

@@SeanMcDowelloh so i see you’re a full blown fundamentalist now. Another Christian pretending to be ‘loving’ to gay people whilst promoting ideologies that lead to immense suffering. What a disappointment.

If Yahweh is not real, a mythological character in a religion, then sin is not real.

"no one is infallible..." "we are all sinners" ... i smile everytime when in long form conversations - are along with - this is wrong - that is wrong -... what happened to log in your own eye? do we read all of Romans? who are you... its between them and God?