In the age of abstraction, we're starting to forget the art of optimization. This video is a reminder.

@HolyKhaaaaan

7 жыл бұрын

When average is all we strive for, perfection of a thing seems like a waste of time and effort when it can be made easier, faster, and cheaper. But when we desire the average, we can't wow ourselves. That this machine can do this is amazing. The man who put it together has great talents as well.

@Brokenrocktail

5 жыл бұрын

Amen.

@jakesbase5657

4 жыл бұрын

Amen

@CreeperOnYourHouse

4 жыл бұрын

Imagine what we could do with modern hardware and sufficient optimization

@RicardoAmaralAndrade

3 жыл бұрын

this is the reason I doesn't like "frameworks" and libraries... they hide codes that not always are good and optimzed, they "only" work...

IBM would have paid BIG MONEY for that back in 1981...

@bluebull399

4 жыл бұрын

It's awesome to see but in 1981 there would have been no market for it. No medium to store the captured video, no reason to play captured video on an IBM PC. Doesn't mean I don't respect demo coders for making hardware do the impossible.

@alexanderbohlen5923

4 жыл бұрын

this demo works only w/ sb so it could not be released in 81'

@michaellyga4726

3 жыл бұрын

I mean if you show this to big blue in '81 they'd be getting rickrolled 6 years before the song came out.

@Kalvinjj

3 жыл бұрын

@@bluebull399 I still think they would have paid some big money just for the bragging rights when showing off their PCs. I mean just look at this and imagine it happening in the early 80s instead on a household PC, I would have wet my pants for sure and they would love this on a showroom.

@Badspot

Жыл бұрын

IBM didn't care about audio visual performance at all. They made a system with no hardware sprites, no sound, no scrolling, and the ugliest colors known to man. They deliberately made the system bad for games so it would be taken "seriously" and bought by business customers for $5000.

Oh, man. Didn't expect Bad Apple!

@plg6128

4 жыл бұрын

yea me ever

I got rick rolled by an 8088

@goeuldi

6 жыл бұрын

then you know you came to the right place ;)

@rimbosity

5 жыл бұрын

i ain't even mad

@ollerich32

4 жыл бұрын

a machine from the 80s delivering a douchebag from the 80s, just perfect :D

@ilfelicity2li258

Жыл бұрын

This is worst thing of 8088

just goes to show what computers are actually capable of if you put enough dedication into it

@MyPathogen

7 жыл бұрын

And have 30+ years to unlock all its secrets!

@Nicholas_Steel

Жыл бұрын

And have considerably more storage capacity. For example, a big reason early NES video games had simplistic graphics was because you only had 48KB for everything on the game cartridge, as the years rolled by that capacity increased to over 500KB and the visuals improved immensely (this was also helped with advanced Memory Mapper chips getting added to cartridges).

@rafa_br34

Жыл бұрын

Yep, computers are wonderful machines, they do anything that you ask that is within their limits. I just hope big enterprises like Microsoft and Apple don't start messing things up by adding 101 limitations and hardware requirements as they are already starting to do with the new x64, TPM, and some other requirements for Windows 11. Well, at least the Linux kernel will be always there when we eventually need it.

The audio is so beyond rich. The graphics are insane. Absolutely incredible work.

@gereniccc4487

11 ай бұрын

i dont think the audio is from the ibm tho

@WMSJacob

11 ай бұрын

@@gereniccc4487 It absolutely is! Creative Soundblaster II

if i was window shopping at a computer store back in 1984 and they had an XT running this demo i would probably shell out the thousands of dollars to get it right there on the spot.

@AiOinc1

8 жыл бұрын

Get the time machine!

@MyPathogen

7 жыл бұрын

Even better you could copy the Rick Astley song which was yet to be released and make millions

It's crazy how these composite artifacts, dithering and scanlines actually add to the style. Imagine playing games like this back in the 80s when such machines were state of the art.

WTF?! As a child of the 80s that was very proud of his Amiga because of the graphic and sound capabilities.... This is INSANE!!!! This runs on vintage IBM PC hardware from circa '81?! The High Res portion of this demo is comparable to Amiga's Spaceballs demo. If you made this in the 80s, it would have shut us all up. Amiga, Atari ST, Mac. But I'm sure it would take ten million dollars worth of ram in those days. Excellent job.

@KugeeRah

9 жыл бұрын

-The IBM 5150, to my knowledge, can only handle up to 256KB of RAM, whereas the 5160 can handle 640KB.- This demo is super-optimized. _EDIT:_ Misinformation from Wikipedia, the 5150 _can_ handle 640KB of RAM.

@JimLeonard

7 жыл бұрын

Probably my favorite comment ;)

@AiOinc1

5 жыл бұрын

640K was an absolute ton of RAM, but if you had an XT and an expansion board or two you could get 640K pretty easily, and if you ordered it with CGA and a 10MB disk, you'd have been golden to run this. The Soundblaster didn't exist until later, though Im willing to bed that the video alone would have won several awards!

@Gantradies

4 жыл бұрын

@@AiOinc1 but making the file woulda taken years, sadly XD

@Mylittleretrocomputerworld

4 жыл бұрын

dont worry, the pc reached the amiga media capabilities ca in 1990 with the 486 + vga + sb. the sound blaster released just in 89.

I never thought I would see bad apple on an 8088 machine running CGA. Amazing!

Dang, I got rickrolled twice: once with Rick, and again with Bad Apple. An amazing 8088 demo, and by and large a worthy successor to Corruption.

The Japanese animation part was super impressive, looked as good as something you'd see on todays screens

Fantastic through and through. Wouldn't expect anything less from you! 640x200 mode looked _really_ sharp. Excellent job! It's amazing how much power that "dinky" CPU (by today's standards) actually has, when fed proper code. If programmers today could only do that! Imagine, instead of a couple gig for a program we'd be looking at a few hundred meg. Seems programming this way is really a lost art.

@Purkkaviritys

10 жыл бұрын

There is an OS called KolibriOS, that does what you talk about since its been written with FASM assembly language.

@ashleywhiteman2684

9 жыл бұрын

jaykay18 made me think 640*200 mode on te Atari ST has been woefully overlooked

@jaykay18

9 жыл бұрын

Ashley Whiteman That very well may be. I personally never had experience with the Atari machines.

@realgroovy24

8 жыл бұрын

jaykay18 Even with a lets say 120MHz CPu we could be geting all our work done, but nope the damn programmers of today make the software so damn bloated same with webpages.

@jaykay18

8 жыл бұрын

Sony Trinitron That's right. There's a reason you used to be able to buy a computer years ago and have it last 15 years. Now you buy one and it craps out before the warranty is even up, but it's already obsolete anyway.

This was my first exposure to bad apple

see 8088 MPH by Hornet + CRTC + DESiRE, (which was presented in 2015, I believe) The intro explains a little why this is so difficult for an 8088 with CGA in comparison to a Commodore64. There's also a lecture "8088 Corruption explained" which goes into some of the technical details of some of the techniques.

That is amazing! I think few people under the age of about 30-35 will really grasp just how mind blowing this is. I grew up with a PC/XT in the house and those things were SLOW! I mean really, REALLY slow, and CGA graphics looked terrible. The cheapest slowest smartphones you can get now are orders of magnitude more powerful than a PC/XT.

I still love this video every time I watch it. What impossible thing are you going to do on your PC next?

Someday, Second Reality on a Babbage Engine.

@mikakorhonen5715

8 жыл бұрын

That would be like that boy on the backseat of the car after dentist.

@michaellyga4726

7 жыл бұрын

don't worry, I'm working on it. Give me 15 minutes, a 5.25" floppy disk filled with hentai and a bobby pin.

@gwenynorisu6883

5 жыл бұрын

Sound generated by carefully timing the rotation of the main drive spindle...

Stop making Bad Apple even more impressive than it already is! Amazing work, though, I'm extremely impressed

LOL! Jim Managed to Rick Roll us in his presentation. Well done btw Jim.

Just imagine what today's computers could do... oh my god...

@otesunki

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@BrendonGreenNZL

3 жыл бұрын

They already do real-time ray tracing at 4K while still having time to compute game physics and (possibly) encode the whole thing to H.264, encrypt it, and beam it wirelessly to a server halfway around the world. What more could they possibly do?

@genericrandom64

3 жыл бұрын

a modern computer could probably render this video in real time several times over

@ZaHandle

8 ай бұрын

@@genericrandom64Well yeah Watching this video is exactly that

This is pretty neat. I see some people are under the wrong impression from this video. They think that this 4.7Hz computer is generating the scenes they are seeing. This is not the case, it is playing a pre-rendered video that has been converted to play on the computer. It is playing an animation frame by frame like an older cartoon, it is not computer generating the cartoon like a pixar movie.

@bryonmiller4326

10 жыл бұрын

Yes not impressive by any means by today's standards. However, if you grew up during that timeframe and were even remotely interested in computers, this is Awesome. These are the OLD SCHOOL PCs that IBM first released when they got into the micro computer field. Think big ugly heavy dinosaur machines with green text only screens.

@mmille10

9 жыл бұрын

Good point. So the question becomes what technology was used to digitize it? I've seen a few demos by "MrAtari" that do the same thing on a 1.8 Mhz Atari 8-bit computer. It seems from reading the descriptions that he used an Atari 8-bit to digitize the video and audio, record it, and play it back. That's still impressive considering that the machines were so slow back then that one would think it difficult for a computer to keep up with the signal coming from a live video source while digitizing it. Though it's possible to keep a low sample size and rate and still have it look decent for the time.

@JimLeonard

9 жыл бұрын

Mark Miller Digitization on older, slower computers was single frames only, not moving video. My old ComputerEyes took roughly 10 seconds to produce an image of a still frame provided by a vcr on "pause".

@mmille10

9 жыл бұрын

Jim Leonard Thanks for the detail. Was digitizing the audio more straightforward? So, I see the challenge you addressed with this demo was getting a satisfying frame rate for the playback animation with the graphics technology of the time. Having run some applications in text mode on DOS and in unaccelerated VGA graphics (in Windows) that scroll text, I can appreciate the accomplishment. :)

@JimLeonard

9 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Yes, digitizing audio was much more straightforward and there were many devices for many home computers if the time that could do so. Some even had that capability built in, such as the Tandy TL series.

As always, absolutely amazing!

This is amazing. Simply amazing work!

Fucking amazing considering this runs on a IBM PC with a 8088!

This is just incredible! Great work!

Bad Apple on an 8088? I can't even get it on my viola!

At 2:05 there is quite some artifacting with only changing pixels that are significantly different from frame to frame. But resolution is amazing considering the hardware limitations. This is such an impressive software. I'm quite blown away. PS: 2:17 haha!

I couldn't believe my own eyes! :D Excellent work. You put so much effort into this that you turned impossible in possible :D Once again, great work!

Simply incredible

How can this even be possible? Truly awesome.

Looking forward for the surely interesting technical explanation! ;)

This is just incredible

I like this :-) Regardless of the filesize of the demo, its nice that you have managed to give this device graphic capability in software :-)

Holy SHIT!! My mouth is agape...

This is stunning

I didn't watch the whole thing, but it seems incredibly impressive. Great job - a wonderful hack!

this is really awesome!

I used these machines back in the day and also the amstrad 1512 (with the nec v20 if i'm not mistaken). Never really saw a CGA on composite mode in person though. Anyway my mind was completely blown away! Absolutely fantastic! :)

Brilliant! Beyond brilliant! Bad Apple looks great in CGA!

Brilliant!

Well done sir. Well. Done.

This is bloody awesome. And hey, Bad Apple!! Great taste ;)

Omg so cool. Good job!

Astonishing.

I this demo definitively proves that the IBM PC was indeed the FIRST piece of hardware that could legitimately lay claim to the term 16-bit.

@semicuriosity257

3 ай бұрын

8088 has an 8-bit external data bus.

This is crazy, insane, wizardry. You are literally doing something impossible.

so great

I wouldve payed thousands to have had this on my 8088 :) Awesome job man!

that´s freaking amazing !!!!!!

Great job!

You are my hero.

very impressive! It's still amazing how much people can push old hard ware to do what it was never designed for --- or was it? ;)

Bravo. BRAVO!

这种视频效果感觉很魔幻，反而充满想象力

I think you might have inadvertently turned bad apple into an actual demoscene meme...

@JimLeonard

2 жыл бұрын

Guilty as charged

Wow.. Just WOW! ..and btw, Tron looks like best fit for this sorcery =)

It's amazing to think this is just the work of great coding and could feasibly be done on something as primitive as a gameboy colour.

Wow. Just wow...

Seriously underrated achievement

Awesome Jim :)

That was the most hype bad apple I've ever seen

Way to go, Trixter! Your work inspired some of the video compression tricks I used in Apple Game Server ]I[. I've actually gotten some pretty decent framerates on the good ol' Apple // but haven't had the time to publish results. (too many things going on.) :-) -BLuRry

@JimLeonard

9 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear it!

I can't believe I got rickrolled in 2014. This is more clever than my mysterious youtube links in svn commit messages =)

That's pretty cool. And it even runs on Windows 98 but without colors.

Time to get this tech into a Dragon's Lair port!

@JimLeonard

7 жыл бұрын

It was briefly pursued, actually. Conversion quality was not high enough for me, but it's not off the table. Better methods may exist in the future.

@ChristopherDrum

7 жыл бұрын

I'm kind of surprised, as I thought the bright, cel-shading artwork would convert nicely. But, I defer to the expert!

Childhood dream come true, discovering it a bit late, even thoough I heard about it for a while (familiar with the Pouet crowd, but more on the CPC side of it ;) ). Sir you made history for those who can appreciate it, I can't even believe what I can see. I always wondered as an 9-year old kid in 1993 whether a genius could actually put together the right "magical" pieces of code in extraordinarily nimble algorithms to finally make my Amstrad CPC 6128 (powered by 3.5Mhz Z80 CPU) able to somehow output video, even in the worst conditions and borderline unintelligible movement and a garbled image, in very low-res, low-fps modes, but I was wrong. Jim does it in high-res, high-fps , clear-cut contours and completely comprehensible scenes. I wonder if the almost as capable Z80 can pull a similar feat ?

@JimLeonard

7 ай бұрын

The Z80 likely can, given that it usually has much less video memory to change than CGA (16KB). Thanks for the kind words :-)

Awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!

HOLY SHIT

genuis :)

I am Big fan of the Demoscene for me is Amazing talent of Sir's Hackers,

Sooo, it has been 9 years since, where's 4k full color 60 fps with 7.1 sound on 8088?

The black and white animated one looks good.

OST is Space Cat - Power Up

@JimLeonard

4 жыл бұрын

Slighted remixed by me, but yes (the edits are in the middle portion with the text).

Fantastic! Nice to see a famous MMD video too! Maybe do a demo showing a Miku video too? :)

fantastic!!! How do i achieve this effect????

Even with the occasional issues with the limited refresh rate of the system during Bad Apple, it still looks good.

@JimLeonard

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Just one more MHz and full updates would have been possible, but the system is hobbled by slow memory bandwidth.

(mind = blown) = understatement

Some of the artifacting reminds me of interlacing, i'm guessing lines get skipped when decode time runs out which makes me wonder if it's possible to use interlacing in two dimensions like the old analog MUSE HDTV system did.

@JimLeonard

4 ай бұрын

The CGA video ram is actually interlaced, so that's exactly what you're seeing.

Bad apple actually got a pretty cool effect!

Tried the demo on a PC emulator running on iOS, no color output so far, but the sound is fantastic, with the emulated CPU set to running at 1MIPS.

@JimLeonard

10 жыл бұрын

You can go lower than 1MIPs and it should still run. Original 8088 is somewhere around 0.2 MIPs in practice :-)

@bikegl

10 жыл бұрын

Jim Leonard Just made a test run at 0.2MIPS, as smooth as the video shows. Now I really want to test the colored version. Is the 16 color mode compatible with VGA?

@JimLeonard

10 жыл бұрын

Chaoji Li Unfortunately no; it relies on the CGA composite color signal. Some emulators support that though; if you run DOSBox 0.74 and set mode=cga you should see color. When I was developing it I used cycles=fixed 312.

It's a good attempt sir, but I was disappointed it wasn't in stereo! ;)

@JimLeonard

9 жыл бұрын

Had to stay compatible with older Sound Blasters!

reminder, this is the low end model of the first x86 chip, you literally cannot go lower than that in term of PC performance

This video's kind of fuzzy, could you reupload it in 4K/60fps? :-P

Incredible work! Is it possible to run it in color mode with my 286 16mhz, vga, dos 6.22? Thanks!

@JimLeonard

8 жыл бұрын

+GSi16vrs Sure, but the colors are wrong. The Bad Apple portion should still look correct. Give it a shot.

@GSi16vrs

8 жыл бұрын

Thanks for fast ansver! Yeah i did run it yesterday and it was a real thrill! I will soon post a video on my channel of my 286 build and i will post a link to you. Have a great day!

Just have to say, I tried this on my Tandy 1000 RSX (a 386), and it plays beautifully. Tried it as well on my Tandy 1000 HX (an XT), but it was showing artifacts looking like static for about 3/4 of the frames, but that might just be a quirk of the Tandy video. Not sure. I've got another XT-class machine with a CGA/EGA card, and a SoundBLASTER 2.0 Pro that I'll be trying this out on once my XT-IDE card kit arrives.

@JimLeonard

3 жыл бұрын

Static might mean the file was corrupted when you copied it over, one way to check for this is to copy over the zip file and unzip it on the target hardware, that way the CRC check can ensure if the zip file is intact or not.

@BlackEpyon

3 жыл бұрын

​@@JimLeonard I copied it straight from my main rig to the CF card I'm using in that machine, but I could always try again... Or try a different CF card, these ones are fairly cheap cards, it could be failing. Need to clear stuff off my bench. The Tandy 1000 HX was never intended to support a hard drive, so I'm using a CF card off an XT-IDE rev.4 based controller I designed for the machine's rather annoying stacking bus header, but I don't think that should make a difference, since CF cards read a lot faster than traditional hard drives, especially MFM drives. Playing off my 1000 RSX, it's on an actual IDE hard drive. I'll be able to do a better comparison once my other XT-IDE card arrives, and I can put it in my other XT machine.

@JimLeonard

3 жыл бұрын

@@BlackEpyon Feel free to email me to continue this, as YT comments aren't great. But my initial thought is that if you're sure the file is good, then another reason for "static" is that it can't meet the bandwidth requirements. Play the file outside of the batch file, just xdcplay.exe filename and it will tell you what the peak bandwidth needed is. If it can't sustain 110KB/s then it might not play properly.

bad apple looks awesome on everything

_Damn._ I mean, I was impressed by Corruption, and by the 2600 version of Bad Apple... but the latter was a cheat because it used a special 16MB bankswitching flashcart, and, well, this is pure code on authentic original hardware, and just on another level entirely. *How?!*

@JimLeonard

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words :-) Here's the tech details: trixter.oldskool.org/2014/06/19/8088-domination-post-mortem-part-1/ Short answer: I wrote an animation compiler.

@gwenynorisu6883

5 жыл бұрын

...weird, those hummingbirds seem familiar, I feel like I've read that first page already sometime recently but it didn't really sink in. But the second one is where the meat of the trick is hidden, and, well, that's a pretty smart solution that I don't think I'd have ever have got round to developing myself. Very neat lateral leap :) And in terms of the way more important changes are prioritised and little ones are left neglected as they hopefully won't be noticed until a larger change sweeps them up, I think what you've essentially done there is something akin to the MP3 CBR encoder/decoder "bit bucket", or an MPEG quantiser matrix. Both also things that are used as a way to determine what to keep and what to ditch in encoders that have to fit a whole bunch of delta changes to rendered data into a very small data budget. Just without the benefit of discrete cosine transformation wavelet encoding of the visual and audible frequency data and having to instead bruteforce raw pixels onto the screen. Or in other words, if the motion picture experts group think that kind of technique is a good approach for their video and audio codecs...

Really awesome! By the way, are you using a standard codec (XviD, MPEG4, etc) for the input video file and then a really magically tweaked decoder, or is the file in your own special encoded format?

@CaptainSouthbird

10 жыл бұрын

From what I read from the scene.org link, he actually wrote some magic that turns the video itself into CPU opcodes. So literally the video itself is an executable. This spares precious cycles that would be wasted on things like loops, jumps, and calculations needed to support a more "typical" generic codec.

@JimLeonard

10 жыл бұрын

XICO2KX: Special format that isn't even data at all, it's code. See the description for a link to a write-up on how it was done.

@XICO2KX

10 жыл бұрын

Jim Leonard Thanks for the link. I've already read it. Technically awesome in every way! Just on last curiosity... What's the size of the final executable for this video?

@JimLeonard

10 жыл бұрын

The player is roughly a 22k .exe, uncompressed. I could probably shave that down a bit as there is some dead code in there, but there's no need, really.

Is it possible to do the same using the 8088 MPH trick to get 512 colors, or is avoiding snow so CPU intensive it wouldn't even make sense?

@JimLeonard

7 жыл бұрын

Snow avoidance kills it. The plasma section in 8088 MPH was 60fps until I had to add snow suppression, which killed the framerate IMO. There's another tradeoff to watch out for, and that's changes per frame. The dithering scheme helps reduce the amount of data that needs to get written to screen; the odd memory organization of the multicolor modes nullifies that, so while it would be colorful, it would be slow.

For those who want to know what is the music, it's : Space Cat - Power Up (kzread.info/dash/bejne/l2mE1slufcWYfbQ.html) Pour ceux qui veulent savoir quelle est la musique, c'est : Space Cat - Power Up (kzread.info/dash/bejne/l2mE1slufcWYfbQ.html)

@JimLeonard

6 жыл бұрын

Correct, although I mixed together two different remixes of the song for the final soundtrack.

CGA supremacy!

do you have a list of source media?

@JimLeonard

8 ай бұрын

DVD Special Features of Groove and Waking Life; Tron and Tron Legacy; Mr. Astley; Touhou

Almost looks like video from the Sega CD

Wow, this is beyond impressive! If you can do this, why not run Fortnight on an IBM AT with EGA? You'll probably need to upgrade the UART, haha. This really is amazing work! I never knew what a powerful machine I had on my desk back in the day.

amazing for an xt, but dont forget, the sb released just in 89, the sbp2 in 92.

@JimLeonard

4 жыл бұрын

Not really possible, since GUS DMA transfers are 16-bit only which requires a 286 or later system.

@Mylittleretrocomputerworld

4 жыл бұрын

Jim Leonard yeah i forgot the 8 bit bus, i fixed it earlier :) but the meaning is same, it was not available.

@JimLeonard

4 жыл бұрын

@@Mylittleretrocomputerworld Output through the speaker is possible, but it would have buffered more, had a lower framerate, and been lower-quality audio. But I did test it eons ago. The xdv player can work without a sound card or hard disk, if that's more impressive. Website has some examples to download.

I wonder if it heats up any doing this

Anyone know where the black and white cartoon guy at 54 seconds is from?

@JimLeonard

9 жыл бұрын

Girl, actually, and she's an extra on the Waking Life DVD.

I still have 8088 V20 CPU with me from the 1980st with me and i m glad that i didn't threw it away. But i don't know what to do with it. Any ideas?

@JimLeonard

5 жыл бұрын

Run this demo on it, for one thing.

Going to try this on my 286 16mhz one day