After 30 years of gaming this supplement still gives me the goosebumps...

Dark Sun was always one of my favorite settings for AD&D. Such a brutal, fiery setting. I couldn't imagine ever getting a character to this high of a level to ever warrant this book.

@BudsRPGreview

6 жыл бұрын

Belish Hill yeah true. It’s a very interesting read though, and you can definitely see the seeds of later editions.

@hydrashaftoe

5 ай бұрын

We did play this in college but we started our group at level 16. We got wiped out at 23-ish though.

Having read all the Dark Sun novels before this supplement came out, I totally geeked out when it did arrive at my local gaming store. I did not know it was coming, so when I went into the shop and saw it on the shelves, I didn't have the cash for it. I ran home and dug up every dollar and coin I could find, called ahead and had the owner hold the copy for me, and within two days of scrounging, I had it. I was primarily a Dark Sun DM, and this supplement only made it better! However, one could see the writing on the wall: once you go this high, how can you go any higher? While I was so much into the Dark Sun setting, my players weren't so much. So for me, this supplement, which was such a pinnacle, also became the end of the game. I could only dream up great adventures that none of my friends wanted to play or were too low level to acheive. If only we had the internet back then!

Humanoid defilers transform into FULL dragons, like, true dragons, at epic levels? Wow, that has huge implications for a unified D&D cosmology! Thanks Bud, always quality.

@BudsRPGreview

6 жыл бұрын

Well they transform into Athasian dragons - the only kind of "true" dragons on that planet. Oh and there is only one true dragon on Athas (Borys) and one almost full dragon (Dregoth - level 29 undead).

@BudsRPGreview

6 жыл бұрын

Michael Johnson sorry, I don’t own that.

@DrowFighterMage

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, back in the day people wanted to take their Athasian dragon into Ravenloft to fight Strahd.

@BudsRPGreview

6 жыл бұрын

DrowFighterMage There was an Athasian Ravenloft realm if memory serves.

That cover art still gives me the chills.

As someone who doesn't really enjoy HLP, I actually see the approach better here in Dark Sun than anything else in D&D, at this level you're working with powers that noticeably change Athas and yourselves and the endgame objectives are really clear for each party. In many ways it's actually a very optimistic book as your powers could well return the planet into a paradise. Dark Sun's a funny setting - I love the concept but it resists any attempt at modularising the game. You're not plug-and-playing your own setting, you're playing Dark Sun. There are all sorts of quirks to playing that I think brushes up against 5e design philosophy, same with Planescape and Spelljammer I suppose, plus they're far too involved with tying in MTG nowadays for some reason.

Have always been interested in Dark Sun. Definitely didn't know they had a crazy book like this one, though! Thanks for the review.

@BudsRPGreview

6 жыл бұрын

Necromancy For Kids cheers! Dark Sun was just that bit too crazy for 2nd ed.

Just stumbled upon this channel. Enjoyable format and informative content. Thanks!

@BudsRPGreview

6 жыл бұрын

Glad you like it! Loads more to come.

Hoping they bring Dark Sun into 5E, always been my favorite setting. Loved how was still fantasy but way outside the box compared to most other settings.

@BudsRPGreview

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah me too.

🔥

The Avangion alone made this book a worthy purchase

@BudsRPGreview

5 жыл бұрын

I just with the art had been better on them.

@master144th

5 жыл бұрын

@@BudsRPGreview I concur.

I wish i could find people to play this with me .

@BudsRPGreview

Жыл бұрын

Try here:discord.gg/XpcThggQ

great video...more dark sun adventure stuff please!!! maybe stuff not at such a high lv

@BudsRPGreview

6 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, the only other Dark Sun book I own is The Will and the Way. I do remember City under the Silt Sea and Forest Maker being quite decent though. Not a fan of the other adventures - probably due to Baxa's art.

@rbbearthwormjim

6 жыл бұрын

thanks for the ideas ill check them out

The real problem with Dragon Kings was the conflicting data. For example, the experience tables for Dragons and Avangions shows hit dice gained different from the MC entries at the end of the book (where Avangions actually don't gain new hit dice, only 1 hp per level). I always took the latter to be the real progression (thus making Avangions much more delicate compared to Dragons, a trait reflected in their wispy and otherworldly appearance). Also a lot of ambiguity. The spell you mention, Inmediate Animation, states: "Preparation time for this spell is optional. However, every day spent in preparation prior to casting increases the number of creatures he can animate: Hit Dice equal to caster's level per day of preparation." So, is PREPARATION optional? Or is preparation TIME optional? On the first case, you can cast it with 0 days of preparation, and reanimate 400 HD of zombies (assuming 21st level caster). And every day spent preparing the spell increases that by 21 HD per day. It goes against the stated limitations of psionic enchantments, that must always have a preparation time (the shortest preparation time is for Dome of invulnerability, being 3 days). On the second case, the caster MUST spent days preparing the spell. 19 days, to be precise, for a 21st level caster (19 x 21 = 399 HD). By the same account, if the Dragon prepares this spell, he must spend 133 days (133 x 30 = 3,990 HD). This is the version I assume correct, as it's more in line with the other 10th level reanimation spell, Raise Nation, that can (at most) raise 4,000 HD of skeletons with limited range (can't move more than 75 miles from the ruins), and with a preparation of 60 days. Also, Wall of ash. It causes damage equal to the number of segments in contact with the ashes (I'm assuming an invisible magical field over the trench, as the ashes only pile up a mere 1 foot over the ground, easily jumper over by anyone), inflicting 1d10 points of damage per segment. How do you determine the segments? A special initiative roll? Do weapon speeds and spell casting times add up? And those are just a couple of examples. Lots of contradictions and ambiguities. I've always felt a great ambivalence for this book. Lots of great things, but also lots of shoddy editing and design.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

I think you are right. Great ideas marred by a lack of thought for how they actually work... and in AD&D that was never going to be easy either way.

You sound like a young David Attenborough lol.

@BudsRPGreview

Жыл бұрын

I will take that as a compliment.

so does a character need full 20 levels profession in psionic and then another 20 levels in arcane class to continue? I though this is levels 20 to 30 but that would make it 40 to 50... does level profession work diffently than I imagine in 2e? where you advance both at once for example.. thus being a 20th level in each at level 20? captain please

@BudsRPGreview

3 жыл бұрын

OK in order: - yes - yes - though you were *technically* 40th level, you didn't have 40 levels of HD - just 20. - no - when you hit 20th level in a class, you start the new class at level 1 - with all of the restrictions that entailed. Also, humans in AD&D couldn't multiclass so wizard/psionic was off the table. Only humans could become Dragons/Avangions too, which explains why there were so rare.

@AAron-gr3jk

2 жыл бұрын

So this isn't even remotely playable:)

I'm not sure why you call Dark Sun "Ill-fated." Are you talking about the apocalyptic atmosphere of the Dark Sun setting? Or are you implying that the Dark Sun setting was not popular? Because I see a lot of demand for more Dark Sun content from WotC and lots of lots of home brew and conversions

@BudsRPGreview

6 жыл бұрын

I don't mean either of those things. It was ill-fated in the sense that at the end of the 2nd edition line it wasn't rekindled for 3.0 or 3.5 edition at all, and had just three sourcebooks and two adventures for 4th edition, one of which was a free RPG Day scenario (and I'm not counting the Dungeon Tiles set) and has nothing planned for 5th edition at the current time of writing (at least that I have heard). Don't misunderstand me here - I have a deep fondness for the Dark Sun setting - but let's not pretend that TSR/WOTC had or have anywhere near as much faith in it as it's fanbase did and continues to do..

Great setting and cover art. Bad system and interior art.