I'm a backer. Good game. Could have been better with more spells & monsters. I didn't like that miscast table for divine & arcane magic are the same. Another 20 pages could have made this great. Nice review.

@christopherrowley7506

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly I think the mishap table is brutal beyond fun. 10% chance of melting all of your party's armor, weapons, and coin is ridiculous. A low level magic user is going to have a 25-50% chance of failing a spell check, depending on their stats and spell level. Which basically means once per session or two, your group is going to loose their armor, weapons, and coin. If I were to play the game I'd make my own mishap table based on d100 and rebalance the likelihoods. I like the metal melting thing, it's funny, but it should be rare.

Nice review Bud, you've pretty much nailed it. A couple of points I'd add: - Morale: I don't think I used it back in the day, but I do use it quite a bit now in my old school games. To me it represents an enemy having it's morale broken. If the GM just decides the enemy will flee the PCs will feel they have been let off or assisted by the GM whereas this happening is down to a chance. I like having it built into the rules - Assassin/Monk: While the Assassin isn't in 5e it is in OD&D and AD&D, so I wonder if it was more a nod to that rather than trying to match the 5e classes

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

- As I said YFTDMV - I see it as a pointless exercise, and don't/won't use it. - If it is 5E for people who want to play OSR, they should really match the classes at a fundamental level, and monk is a CORE class - they've done it with sorcerer and warlock, and they've been "canon" for a far shorter time than monk.

@jdmcdonnell71

4 жыл бұрын

So you use it so you don't have to blame the DM for being easy on the players by having the monsters high-tail it to soon or being too hard by having all the creatures fight to the death. Hmm. I could see some advantages in that, but it feels a bit like protecting the game by limiting what a GM can do.

@neilbenson3430

4 жыл бұрын

It's entirely optional of course so there's no limiting the GMs decision making, but I've found it useful for a lot of encounters. There are occasions were it doesn't make sense or where there are predetermined responses, but it's a handy tool to have available.

@spikepit1

3 жыл бұрын

Regarding Morale, it's offered as an optional rule in 5e DMG pg.273. Alot of the "OSR" ish 5e rule options are hidden in the DMG, and consequently gets overlooked.

@josephpurdy8390

9 ай бұрын

Assassin is found on page 97 of the 5th edition Player's Handbook.

the encumbrance, supply, and durability ruiles sound really interesting as a paired down mechanic like the one in Torchbearer.

I've been trying to get my 5e friends to check out OSR games. This might finally do it!

This looks really good. Need to pick it up.

This is a great review. Kinda wish I had watched it Before I ordered it but now I've watched this I'm happy that I did and can't wait for it to arrive in print. Good one Bud.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

Glad I could help!

To me, the inclusion of a morale rule is that it reinforces and reminds that not all monsters and NPCs will stupidly fight to the death. The rule need not be used as written, but the fact that it is there can inspire the GM/DM to play the enemy with intelligence.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

The GM can make the same call without the need to roll dice.

@JamesEck9095

4 жыл бұрын

@@BudsRPGreview absolutely true, and it SHOULD be (without dice), but it's something that all to often is ignored in the average session of D&D in my opinion. That is why I appreciate the written rule as a reminder more than as a mechanic.

@christopherrowley7506

3 жыл бұрын

@@BudsRPGreview The GM can do everything without dice, so your argument is meaningless. Now, the whole point of having an RPG system is preciously to give structure so the DM doesn't have to decide everything without dice, though everyone prefers a different line in the sand as far as how much structure is appropriate. So your real point is that "I prefer this, and you prefer that". Which is fine. But let's not suppose you're privy to some greater insight than Sir James Eck here.

Good review! And it's good to hear someone else saying it. Back in the day we had no love for Morale. It was one of the first things we threw out and no one missed it. If the monsters had had enough that was the DM's call to make (and ours for ourselves). I have no idea where this new-found love for (and almost deification of) the morale rules is coming from.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

It's kind of the "it's old so it must have been right" thinking.

@willinnewhaven3285

4 жыл бұрын

@@BudsRPGreview I hate to use the word "realistic" but there it is. Fighting to the death is bullshit for most critters and people.

@christopherrowley7506

3 жыл бұрын

@@willinnewhaven3285 they're not saying that monsters should fight to the death, but that the mechanic for determining their morale is unnecessary, and the decision of the monsters to flee or not should simply be the DM's. I've never played an OSR that had actual morale stats for monsters, but I've often rolled for morale in 3e+ just giving arbitrary values "Hmmm their chieftain just died, if a d20 is lower than 15 then they'll run". Just because I think it's fun for the DM to let some of their decision making rely on dice. So I'm actually interested in these more codified old rules.

On morale: when players use it, it's usually because they're unsure if they should run or not. A dm calling for morale is a good way for the dm to subtly nudge players towards breaking and running because the fight will only get worse. As for the dm calling morale, usually it's used if the dm is unsure when a monster would run or not. It makes intimidation attempts an opposed check as well which can be more fun. Usually "break conditions" some being soft (calling for a morale check) or hard (they just flee) such as having fewer allies than party members or a leader being defeated is a good idea to notate for dms. For instance, bandits are liable to break and run if one of their number dies. A morale check for each bandit that dies might be a good idea. Alternatively having it be something players can make a dm do can be helpful. I've forgotten to have goblins break and run more than once.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

IMHO, players shouldn't roll morale - it should be a roleplaying decision. Fear and the like are different. As for morale for monsters, I managed to run an AD&D campaign for over 12 years without ever using it once. It's not for me, and in all honesty, most other gamers I have spoken to when we have discussed it. If you want to use it hey - knock yourself out! It's just not my cup of tea.

thanks for the review

Agreed great content

Nice video! Not a big fan of 5e, but I might give this a shot.

Interesting review. There were certainly some rule mechanics that tweaked my curiosity (particularly lighting), but can only agree that some of the equipment mechanics could 'bog down' play-ability. The art featured, did look good, and adds considerably to presentation value. … and it does need a little more expansion.

@nunyadambidniss

3 жыл бұрын

Think A Revised Edition Is In The Works ?

A couple things I found odd about it. Clerics can cast healing as a ritual any number of times, which seems like it takes away from the resource scarcity aspect of the game. I was unsure how to run the economy, does all SUPPLY cost the same amount to purchase? is that all meant to be abstracted away? But if gold is a large part of the game, shouldn't the economy be more fleshed out?

Stay safe Bud!

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

misomiso trying to!

Hi Bud, you said you didn't like the spellcasting checks because a player could whiff their 'one spell per day' However it's worth noting in this game you can cast spells as many times per day as you want, the spellcasting check (and mishaps) are the limiting factor, similar to 2e/4e Warhammer. The spells known table is just for how many spells you know how to cast. Something of a departure from traditional D&D. Edit: Correction on my part. Now I've actually read the rules more closely myself, if you fail your first spellcasting check you can whiff your spell for the day, since when you fail a spellcasting check you can't cast a spell of that level until you complete a safe rest.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah... that's a good point, and one you would have thought the FTD team would have mentioned after seeing the review. I mean, it's meant to representative of 5E and the OSR - of which neither have the ability to cast spells whenever you want (other than cantrips). I've posed the question to them.

Were magic items given a similar toolbox treatment as monsters or are you encouraged to port them in from other D20 systems?

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

It touches on them. It generally encourages importing them in, which for me feels like a bit of a cop-out.

I enjoy this channel - great reviews etc. What the hell is that intro music though lol? Yeah, I know, I'm just being picky :p

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

It's a freeware piece called "bensound-scifi". Glad you enjoy what I do.

@feagal612

4 жыл бұрын

@@BudsRPGreview Yes mate, thank you for all the work you put in

I liked using moral in Basic Fantasy.

Range attack not using strength was decided by someone who never drew a warboy.

mixed feelings - whilst the simplification in some areas is good, does (high)fantasy need so much survival type rules?

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

David that’s kind of my point. At least they are implemented in an interesting and easy to understand way.

Makes D&D interesting again.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

I think that altogether depends on whether you had lost interest in it.

For me it feels like an beta rather than a finished project. No don't get me wrong, this game is by no means bad. But it feels like it needs the Cook/Moldvay treatment to truly unlock it's potential. The SUP rules are *chef's kiss* and the limited abilities works better for the proficiency system imo. But too much is half baked and it really requires you, or at least the DM, to be familiar with both 5th ed and OSR games like AD&D or B/X rather than being purely for beginners like the intro says. I don't regret my purchase and it has intrigued me enough to run it but don't go in unless you already have the 5e core books and maybe other OSR books to draw knowledge from.

@BudsRPGreview

2 жыл бұрын

As mentioned in the review, in an attempt to essentially simplify it they made it uneccesarily complicated by adding some things in that were essentially abandoned years ago.

You got a detail wrong about spell casting. In Five Torches Deep you can the spells tables is how many spells you know, not how may times you can cast per day. You can cast any number of times per day as long as you keep succeeding on your rolls. However failing a spell roll locks you out of casting any more spells of that level for the day. (honestly I think they got that rule wrong it makes it too easy to get locked out of spellcasting).

@BudsRPGreview

Жыл бұрын

I did that review three years ago… you’re probably right - I have no desire to check!

Magic spells could be cast as often as you want as the number listed is the number of spells you know. You do risk the spell backfire each time you cast, though, which is why you can otherwise cast magic all day even at 1st level.

This sounds interesting, but it is not particularly simpler than 5e - it just reduces some rules and expands others. It’s another variation on D&D. It changes classes, for no particular reason other than being different. Many of the other rules are just ... additional rules.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought.

@christopherrowley7506

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's one thing I think is very hypocritical in the OSR scene. I've very often seen harping on these two contradictory points: 1) is how DnD got way too complicated with skills etc in 3e and later editions, and how sleek and streamlined races, classes, magic etc. used to be. And 2) how horrible the later editions are for getting rid of all of the dense, involved dungeon mechanics, retainer mechanics, etc. Personally I like both styles, but I don't pretend that early DnD is some codified whole, some sacrosanct ideal, while everything after is patchwork trash.

Monks in a medieval game is dumb

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

sixtyninemangler but warlocks and sorcerers are just fine. Ok.

@sixtyninemangler

4 жыл бұрын

@@BudsRPGreview There are many references of sorcerers and warlocks in western Europe since the dark ages. Not much on kung fu monks. So yeah, OK back at you.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

sixtyninemangler LOL! You know monks are a real thing, where sorcerers and warlocks are make believe yeah?

@sixtyninemangler

4 жыл бұрын

@@BudsRPGreview We are talking about a fantasy game after all. Predominantly nfluenced by medieval europe. One where sorcerers make more sense than monks. Yes monks are real but they aren't near invincible kung fu touch of death superhuman. Just like there are real witches but they can't cast real magic. The monk portrayed in the game is eastern Asia, not the western kind.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

@@sixtyninemangler OK - I appreciate what you are saying, but to just say "monks in a medieval game is dumb" is missing the point a bit. Monks are a CORE class of 5E and should have been included as it is meant to be OSR for 5E players.

Way too much hand waving & movement in this. I just had to listen while I looked at something else. Why does everyone talk with their hands now days? It's distracting. Maybe it's just me. Whatever the case, it's an informative video even if I had to listen instead of watch.

@BudsRPGreview

4 жыл бұрын

Mate - that's the only part of me you see - it's not a podcast.

@Mind_of_MATT

4 жыл бұрын

I realize that but when I seen the hand movements it just struck me as very typical to what I've been seeing as of late. Not just hand videos but with whole bodies in videos. Sorry to single you out for it & vent about here but, to me, it's very distracting from what people are trying to communicate & show. I meant no harm or ill. Just a little frustration is all. It's like trying to listen to someone while they are playing table tennis.