Thank you brother, the people in our church are being blessed by this teaching 7 years later (7 literal years;)

God bless this man, Bruce Gore. I wish all teachers of all disciplines had what he has.

Thank you, sir, for another great lecture. How important it is to have an understanding of history to appreciate the different viewpoints concerning the book of Revelation, especially in determining its real meaning! And yes, only our Lord Jesus Christ is worthy!

@GoreBruce

8 жыл бұрын

+Ronald Nepomuceno Thank you!

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

I’m so glad I listened to this lecture!! Thank you.

Thank you for a wonderful video, the words and thoughts brought tears of joy. May God Bless you and your Ministry.

@GoreBruce

7 жыл бұрын

...and your kind feedback brought tears to mine! Thank you!

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

Even when Luther is wrong, I still find him endearing and relatable. Watching this series for the second time. Thank you Bruce!

@FRodriguez_

4 ай бұрын

He definitely did not make claims without reasoning behind them, even when he was clearly wrong.

Bruce, this has been very helpful showing the progression of changing views reaching all the way to the present. Your summary was well done. Thank you

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

Looooooovvvee this teaching, preaching. He's gifted.

Thanks Bruce, Gods continued blessings.

Fascinating!!! Always wondered where some of these eschatological views came from. I like the approach that the Word can be understood so when Jesus said “soon”, “quickly”this generation”He meant what he said so how do folks get off on such a strange rabbit trail. So I’ve learned the history behind it. Thanks so much!!!

Thank you so much for posting this!!

The Historicist approach actually does have the advantage of being extremely relevant for John's generation, and there is a "road map" if you will, given by Jesus, in the first chapter. He tells John that he is about to reveal to him, some things which have happened, some things which are happening, and also things which are to take place soon after. If it is a timeline of history, and if it starts with John, it would be incredibly encouraging to John to be reminded that the Worthy One was about to open the scroll, soon after the time of John's vision, and bring judgement upon those who pursecuted His church.

May Father YAHweh bless your understanding.

The best part of each video is always at the end .Bless you sir . And now that I think of it - I think the west misses out exactly that by relegating Revelation out of your lives.

The Historicist View remained in the Church after the Reformation until the novel ideas of the Dispensationalists developed out of the 1830s, taking hold in the late 19th to early 20th century of Evangelical Christianity. A good definition for the idea of Historicism can be found in interpreting Daniel 2 and 7.

@JordanWallace-nb4id

10 ай бұрын

Dispensations started in the first century because that's what Paul taught.

@KarlsKronicles

10 ай бұрын

@@JordanWallace-nb4id Paul never taught dispensationalism. Darby did, circa 1830. The covenant hermeneutic its based on is not biblical.

@YourBoyJohnny94

3 ай бұрын

@@KarlsKroniclesJesuits created Dispensationalism, Francisco Ribera and Manuel Lacunza using a fake rabbi name developed dispensationalism until Darby popularized it.

Awesome, really are excited. Letting the Holy Spirit bring alll , the book of Revelation.to light. He always shows us Jesus and His work.

@DavidKing-qd3sp

4 жыл бұрын

if you don't have an educated background in theology it is easy to be convinced about anything....Bruce is wrong in his conclusions - he is correct in historical details but not his interpretation of those facts.

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

I'm really enjoying this series. I wonder if anyone has an in-depth series like this on church history?

@GoreBruce

7 ай бұрын

I have a playlist on KZread that covers church history here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/nXyopaaOXdmTcrg.html

Have you considered including Sir Isaac Newton’s 2060 ends times theory? What are your thoughts? Thanks.

Revelation is 'Fractal' ; meaning it has an interpretation for all generations since it's writing , with each epoch it gets broader in scope and advances farther along in book. The opening chapters are simple and easy to apply even for the beginner . The book with the rest of the Bible interprets itself ; for example 'Wormwood is apostasy , the fallen stars are some of the stars that Christ held in his hand in the opening chapter . We are somewhere around chapters 17 and 18.

Didn't Tertullian, or one of the early church writers also speak about how out of the ashes of the fallen Roman empire, an Antichrist would arise? If so, wouldn't this also be another early version of a historicist view?

@williamnathanael412

2 жыл бұрын

That sounds quite futurist to me

@madalenasimoes8066

2 жыл бұрын

@@williamnathanael412 Nope. That’s what the Protestant church believed as well as the apostolic. Futurism and preterism came from two jesuits to counter attack Protestantism.

@hoffabrando007

Жыл бұрын

The person is a Jesuit. The history of the catholic church and its Popes is a history of compromise with the kings of the earth, ((church and state)) very different to original new testament church that said Matthew 16:18 I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.,600 years of inquisitions, all the crusades, the sale of salvation was the last straw . The historic view was held by some of the catholic churches great theologians as early 200 AD, i think his history lesson is way off. The history of pontifex Maximus is a system of church and state, religion and politics ruling together if Henry the 8th could speak from the grave he would tell you who was ruler of Christendom he as king could not get the pope to give him a divorce. The Papacy is an anti-Christian system; The Popes title Pontifex Maximus is pagan to the core, Pontifex Maximus is the title of the Pagan high priest that originated from Babylon that control’s both religion and politics ON THIS EARTH, that has high jacked Christendom and has set up the abominations of sun worship and adultery IN THE CHURCH. ROMAN History OF Pontifex Maximus Octavian, Caesar's successor, took the crown Julius Caesar would have worn. Octavian became the Pontiff Maximus. That is why the Roman Emperors felt they had the right to be worshipped as gods. All the Roman Emperors wore this crown until Grattan. In 376 A.D Grattan became the ruler of Rome. However, he refused the title of Pontifex Maximus for religious reasons. Two years later Damascus, the Bishop of Rome, proclaimed he wanted to wear the crown. Damascus would go on to “head up” the Council of Nicaea. Every Pope has worn this crown and held the title of Pontifex Maximus since. The Anabaptist's taught that the ‘falling away’ had occurred historically at the time of Constantine the Great, and that thereafter the ‘Man of Sin’ had taken his place in the ‘Temple of God’, the Church, and that from there he had sat in his bishop’s seat ruling over the Church. From this seat, the Papacy increased in power until like the beast of Revelation it held sway over the kings of the earth, as God himself, and as Christ’s representative. For example Pope Boniface VIII said about himself: “The Roman Pontiff judges all men, but is judged by no one. “We declare, assert, define and pronounce: To be subject to the Roman Pontiff is to every human creature altogether necessary for salvation... “That which was spoken of Christ...’Thou hast subdued all things under His feet,’ may well seem verified in me. I have the authority of the King of kings. I am all in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the Vicar of God, have but one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do. What therefore, can you make of me but God?” The Bull Sanctum, Nov. 18, 1302: it is true that the earthly power of the Papacy grew out of the decay of the Roman Empire. And so they taught that the ‘hindrance’ mentioned by the apostle, was this Empire, and that following its demise the Papacy rose from the Church of God showing itself that it was God. That is why Menno Simons could refer to the Pope as “the Antichrist” and as “the ((abomination of desolation))”. This view, that the ‘hindrance’ mentioned by Paul was the Roman power, is an interpretation reaching back into the earliest ages of the Church. Tertullian (c. 160 - c. 220) said “That day shall not come, unless, indeed, there come a falling away, he means indeed of this present empire...and he who now hinders must hinder, until he be taken out of the way. What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms shall introduce Antichrist upon its ruins?” [Tertullian, On the Resurrection of the Flesh, chap. XXIV.]. John Chrysostom, who died in 408 A.D, writing in his Homily on Second Thessalonians, tells us that there were two views prevalent in the Church of his day, one that the hindrance was the gifts of the Spirit, and the other that the hindrance was the Roman power. He writes “One may first naturally inquire what is that which withholds, and after that would know why Paul expresses this so obscurely. What then is it that hinders him [Antichrist] from being revealed? Some indeed say the grace of the Spirit, but others the Roman Empire, to whom I most of all accede. Because he said this of the Roman Empire he naturally ... speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself ... useless dangers. For if he had said, that after ... a while the Roman Empire would be dissolved, they would immediately have even overwhelmed him as a pestilent person and all the [other] faithful as living and [seeking] this end.” [Chrysostom, Homily IV, 1] I could continue with the testimonies of other catholic men, such as Irenaeus, Jerome, Justin and others, but I trust that this will suffice for now. Theses are Catholics not protestants what is the truth about catholic crusaders have he any idea of truth or are you a Jesuit brainwashing your students.

@rprestarri

Жыл бұрын

John Chrysostom believed this as well.

Only on lecture 4, but thank you for the wealth of information!

@joshportie

3 жыл бұрын

Hes a liar too. Quoting sociopaths like Augustin and Thomas Aquinas. Try learning church history from Christians not Catholics pretending to be.

The Historicist view of Bible prophecy is the Protestant view of Bible prophecy. The Historicist view of Bible prophecy is the BIBLICAL view of Bible prophecy. Only the Jesuits are opposed to the Bible and Protestantism. Certainly, a Jesuit would be opposed to the Historicist view.

I am not a believer in the historicist view, but I have to admit the concept of the "χαραγμα" makes me think history can repeat itself.

@GoreBruce

3 жыл бұрын

Yes indeed. There is really nothing new, and the great lessons of the Bible, including Revelation, apply to all times in history!

@John_16.13

9 ай бұрын

So you believe in dual fulfillment/prophetic parallels/spiritual recapitulation? James Lloyd of Christian Media Network teaches this. What do you think of the Lion, Bear, Leopard and divers beast being Britain, Russia, Germany and America, respectively?

@protochris

9 ай бұрын

@@John_16.13 I'd have to study that in more detail. The pattern will likely repeat, we just don't know the countries.

Basically dont fret about the end of times. “ it will come like a thief in the night “. Be a good Christian. What views did the other other Orthodox Churches say Dr. Bruce? Thank you. I am enlightened more daily as I engorge myself in your lecture.

Thank you

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMITMENT TO RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH! (Love the outro music? Instrumentation?)

@GoreBruce

4 ай бұрын

Music is A Bach Recital, by Simon Wynberg, Guitar. Thanks for the encouragement!

@stacyclark5910

4 ай бұрын

Figures that it was Bach! Thanks again!

I wonder what is the stand of Catholic church from Revelation that did not follow reformation! Is there a parallel understanding in Catholic church?

Thank you for this! It is brilliant. An historical view towards Revelation would not make it irrelevant to first century readers at all, but a preteris interpretation would make it irrelevant and misleading for readers today and therefore should be shelved.

@GoreBruce

6 жыл бұрын

Interesting. Would you say the same thing about the book of Acts? ...or the book of Matthew, both of which are describing events that took place in the first century (i.e., 'preterist'), but are commonly viewed his highly relevant for believers of all ages?

@januddin8068

6 жыл бұрын

Bruce Gore Id say theyre different types of books and genres. The ones you mention are mostly described as historical accounts whereas Revelation at least gives a strong impression of being future forecasts. I dont have a problem with some of it and Mathew 24 being about 1st centrury happenings. I think its thpical though if whats to come. Wouldnt see the need for Revelation if not - in fact I still believe it would be mosleading.

@Edscnc

5 жыл бұрын

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which MUST SOON TAKE PLACE; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, 2who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the TIME IS NEAR. The father does know the day and the hour. So, I fail to see what's misleading.

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

My Brother, The Reformers who used the historists approach had it right. They understood that the Scriptures are to be interpreted in the plain reading of what it says, EXCEPT when as in the case of the books of Daniel and Revelation symbols are used in writing which must be interpreted and understood symbolically. In that case at times the Books themselves give the interpretation or the clues that are to be used to explain the symbols. As in the Book of Daniel Chapter 3, where Daniel told the king his dream plus the interpretation of it. You may want to refresh your mind of the story. In other cases you may need to find the meaning of a symbol from other parts of the Bible. For example: a woman in prophesy = a church. A pure woman, a pure church; a harlot woman, an impure or apostate church. See Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ezekiel 16:15-58, Hosea 2:5, 3:1; Revelation 14:4. Day =literal year Ezekiel 4:6; Numbers 14:34 Lamp = word of God Psalms 119:105 Waters= inhabited areas/people/nations Revelation 17:15 Keep in mind this important principle: Knowing this that no Scripture is of any PRIVATE interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man; but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20,21, We must humbly ask for the help of the Holy Spirit as we study in humility and honesty with the desire to know truth and receive it and practice it. Trust God to unfold truth as fast or as gradually as you can receive it. He will do just that. But the prophesies can be understood. And yes, William Miller was used wonderfully by God despite the fact that he didn't get it completely right. So was Luther, Huss, Jerome, Wycliff, the Wesley's, Roger Williams, and many others. Both the Futurist and the Preterist methods for interpreting Revelations muddy up the waters. They do not make sense. The historicist method fits like hand and glove, it's the one that makes sense. I hope you enjoyed your first workday of the week, Sunday, and that you and your family will have a great Thanksgiving day. Don't forget to share with your children and/or grandchildren what Thanksgiving is truly about. Most have forgotten history and hence we are adrift in the sea of heresy.

@randywagner6961

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. No other explanation makes sense. Horae Apocalypticae, even though it is far beyond me, makes sense. And the witness of millions of dead Saints I cannot dismiss.

@trevormink7605

Жыл бұрын

I agree. Also, when you know where futurism and hyperpreterism came from (hint: the counter reformation led by the Catholic Jesuits order that was created for that purpose), it makes it pretty obvious the the pope is the antichrist and is try to hide it.

@echoblu5103

Жыл бұрын

I do agree that prophecies were given to be understood hence the reason the Old Testament prophets prophesied about the first coming of Jesus and in some parts the second coming, like book of Isaiah. It’s very ignorant for people to believe that Christ would not provide hope for his second coming by way of prophecy as He did in the past. With that being said. Do not hold onto the pride that there is no error in the historicist method because “time, times and the dividing of time” has two meanings a “moment in time” and appointed time.” That means trying to make the time line fit by thinking that from the time “daily” was taken away is from 538 AD to 1798 AD which would make 1260 years fit the understanding of something that was equated to the Jews. It is a 2300 year prophecy that I believe does in fact start from 456 and ends in 1844. Because that was the time frame that was told to the prophet. But there are things that doesn’t make sense because from the rise of Constantine the persecution was done by Christians to non Christians. This was before the reformation where the Papacy persecuted the followers of Christ. After the compromise of the church in 325 AD the beastly behavior of Rome was acted out by Christians, who forced barbarians and other tribes of pagans to convert or be killed. They were not followers of Christ. The persecution of the true church happened before Papal role from the time of the disciples to the church or Smyrna. Then centuries later after the crusades which was the barbaric act of Christians against non-Christians, the reformation started and then the beastly behavior of Romanism showed itself again. So there were periods where Christians killed non Christians and then the church killed Christians. Now with that being said I believe the book of Daniel gives a complete view of what was to happen to the Jewish nation. Because the Angel kept saying “what is to happen to thy people”. Now the Book of Revelation is to explain what is to happen to the Followers of Christ. The prophecies follow the people of God. I love the Adventist view. I believe they paved the way for a lot of prophetic truths but because it was not set for their time we still have more truths to be revealed. Remember in the first advent of Christ they misunderstood a lot of those prophecies and it wasn’t until after he came and ascended they recognize the totally of the prophecies. History doesn’t repeat but it rhymes. There are a lot of things that Mrs. White and her fellow stewards of faith did not fully understand because it was not for their time. A lot of people hold onto old views of people who God used to herald the gospel for their time but the torch of knowledge is to keep being passed down and we are to expand and seek our piece of the puzzle. Adventist Pride is like Judism, they’re the only chosen people. We all saw how that story ended. So let’s not be prideful towards others.

@trevormink7605

Жыл бұрын

@@echoblu5103 Was there anything that happened historically in1844 that supports the Adventists view of the 2300 days prophecy?

You're welcome Mr Gore.

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

Bruce is there a book that you could recommend that covers Christian history that communicates its contents clearly without wearing out the reader? Thanks

@GoreBruce

4 жыл бұрын

www.amazon.com/Bruce-Shelley/dp/1401676316/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1JLCXU8VSE2DW&dchild=1&keywords=church+history+in+plain+language+by+bruce+shelley&qid=1593866275&sprefix=church+history+%2Caps%2C238&sr=8-1

Why do you feel the statements on the pope are over stated? Thanks for your work ❤

@Clint-zs4rq

8 ай бұрын

He feels that way because he is preterist and Preterism is the flip side of the same coin that Futurism was stamped on. Both these schools of thought were created to take the focus off the Popes of Rome and direct it elsewhere. Both created by Jesuits.

A question bruce . Where do preterists place the Gog Magog war of Ezekiel 38 ?

@GoreBruce

3 жыл бұрын

If you mean 'full preterists' (which I am not), I don't know that there is a unanimous view of the subject. If you are referring to those who take a preterist view of Revelation (which I do), then the use of the phrase in Revelation 20 to describe events after the '1000 year' period referred to is simply an allusion to Ezekiel, but not understood as a specific fulfillment of Ezekiel's prophecy. Again, I am not aware of any unanimous view among 'partial preterists' of the events that Ezekiel had in mind. That question remains a matter of discussion. Some see the events reported in Esther, others the Maccabean Revolt (which I favor), still others the Roman attack on Jerusalem in the first century.

@decay-154

3 жыл бұрын

@@GoreBruce Ezekiel 39:29 says God pours out his spirit on Israel . This didnt happen in 70 AD . Seems the Prophecy must be fulfilled fulfilled "when the fullness of the gentiles has come in" Romans 11:25,26 at Christs 2nd coming or at the end of the 1000 year millenial reign

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

@SoulSeeker770

3 жыл бұрын

Could it be that what was said to Daniel will be fulfilled twice? If I am not mistaken, somewhere in Daniel it said “He will TRY to change the set time...”. I definitely think that refers to Nero; however, the word “try” to me denotes a double prophecy!

The "Office of Pope" is not found in Matthew 16 or any other chapter!

@evettebrummell1836

4 жыл бұрын

What about daniel book chapter 7

Please give explanation for Rev 13:15 in Historicist View

@GoreBruce

3 жыл бұрын

As is often the case, there is no consistent view of the this text among historicists. The most common approach would tie this text to the papacy based on a variety of interpretive possibilities.

@joshportie

3 жыл бұрын

He cant, he works for Rome.

@joshportie

3 жыл бұрын

The papacy being the antichrist is the only historical view until the 1800s.

Most prophecy is only known after it is completed. An exception is Ezekiel 12:25 For I the LORD will speak, and whatever word I speak will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, for in your days, O rebellious house, I will speak the word and perform it,” declares the Lord GOD.’” Those who know what the Revelation reveals have two problems. First, they think they satisfy the prerequisite of 17:9 Second, they have gotten over their skis. I always tell people do not read Revelation until you have mastered the preceding books of the Bible.

I think the scroll is the sealed portion of Daniel mentioned in chapter 9. 12....Bruce is entitled to his opinion but I agree with Luther and the other Reformers who carried the church out of Papal dominance and persecution at the risk of their lives. Bruce is a historian and not an exegete..........and he said he does not hold to the harsh view of the Pope held by the Reformers....who else is the Anti-Christ....was Luther and other Reformers wrong---don't think so. And prophecy is for the future though some of Rev. was understood by the early church, not even the prophets understood what they wrote as it was for many centuries in the future.

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

@fr.richardhill2900

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua I agree with David King about the source of the sealed scroll, but little else. I was surprised that your link was a video I also agree with. I expected another self appointed prophesy moron but found a pretty good teacher. Thanks for the link. I wish his production quality was as high as his teachings.

@DavidKing-qd3sp

3 жыл бұрын

@Annie Roca You are entitled to your view but the Historicist view is a better view...the preterist and the futurist was developed by Jesuits to get the focus off Rome...we can make scripturto understand deeper issues

@DavidKing-qd3sp

3 жыл бұрын

@Annie Roca ...I have a degree in theology - have studied the bible for 47 years...so I have to know something about hermeneutics - and a few things about Greek ...but what is important is that you don't learn from the wrong people with the wrong view and sadly i think you have...Bruce Gore is a good guy but profoundly wrong in his views....but i am not into arguing or seeking to change people's views...as they say - truth is self-commending, if you cant see it by yourself i am not sure i can help you ,,,but i wish you the best.

@DavidKing-qd3sp

3 жыл бұрын

@Annie Roca if you are open to learning i will take the time to chat - but only if you are flexible---

Why is it so hard to accept the scholarship of Nicolas , as a prophetic voice to the historicist interpretation? Scholars today just don't want to accept such an approach. All the reformers, filled with the spirit, knew who the Dan 7 man of sin was indeed.

@chuckgualdoni9101

4 жыл бұрын

I have to ask myself, "Does Bruce intend to deceive people?"

@evettebrummell1836

4 жыл бұрын

@@chuckgualdoni9101 yes he does

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

@fr.richardhill2900

3 жыл бұрын

@@chuckgualdoni9101 no, he is telling the truth.

@MinisterRedPill

2 жыл бұрын

Nicholas who?

I need to get an overview of what you believe is future...is there any one lecture that outlines the second advent.

@GoreBruce

6 жыл бұрын

The best overview of what I believe is future is found in all the classical creeds of the church, the Apostle's Creed, the Nicene Creed, The Symbol of Chalcedon, etc. I am planning a two year study of Revelation for the fall of 2019, and will cover the topic in some detail at that time. Thanks for your interest.

@hollykirby8542

5 жыл бұрын

Bruce Gore - Very much looking forward to that update end of 2019!!!! As a former dispensation believer, I am learning from your teachings!!

@quovadimus3312

5 жыл бұрын

This out lines Rev. kzread.info/dash/bejne/rIxot69sp9Dbaag.html

@watchmanonthewall667

4 жыл бұрын

@@quovadimus3312 Purchased books by Elliot, H. Grattan Guinness and Wylie...I have a lot of reading to do!

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

Hi Bruce. I've studied historicist teaching for about 8 months now but I'm yet to find anyone who has an endgame scenario. I've discounted Preterism and don't believe that Futurism can account for the bulk of Revelation. Do you have an overview of what we can expect? Austin Hellier

@GoreBruce

5 жыл бұрын

Yes!. You can expect that Christ will reign until he has put every enemy under his feet, the last of which is death. Blessings my friend!

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb ?

Some good information but he argues for reading the Bible using a plain understanding then proceeds to criticise the "Historicist" Reformers for doing just that.

Daniel & Nebuchadnezzar's visions end with Rome, even the Ten Toes are Iron mixed with earth. There is no empire in the prophecy of the book of Daniel that follows Rome in the vision, leaving us without further instruction of one who follows Rome. No one but the papacy has so endeared the title of Anti-Christ. Who else so fulfills the title by doctrine and action? Their own history and historical documents support the view. The papacy’s much deserved title of Antichrist was written by their own hand. Although I follow the Partial Preterist timeline of Revelation, I cannot find the means to let go of the Papacy as being Antichrist.

@jjmulvihill

4 жыл бұрын

Barney 1014 It would not have occurred to me from the writings of the seven churches that they would be a consecutive history of the church, if it wasn’t for someone telling me so. Truthfully, at this point, I don’t believe it. But it is very informative of the problems of their time, and that we should levy all of them for good or for bad, and apply the lessons gained to our current time. It had a current meaning to the existing church being addressed at that time. Also 2 prophetic end time prophecies may have parallels, but serve different purposes in their context. I’m trying to put the pieces together, sometimes they won’t fit. But I still hold the piece in my hand. BTW, thanks for your comment.

@jjmulvihill

4 жыл бұрын

Barney 1014 I agree with you 100% concerning the papal rule and the dark ages. There is no way around it. Book of Daniel nails it to a Tee, to a point that I am agasp that other churches don’t preach it. I came from a Congregational church, then a Baptist Church, and though they speak against the papacy, they do not interpret it to Daniel’s “Little Horn”. They are stuck in someone else’s interpretation, and not necessarily a biblical interpretation.

@jkim8011

4 жыл бұрын

John Mulvihill, in case you have not read this sound and historically accurate work, you may be interested in reading Edward Bishop Elliott's 4-volume Horae Apocalypticae. It is in the public domain and can be found online, although finding an online version of the fifth (and last) edition (which was published in 1862), may take some rigorous searching. I found it when I was looking for older biblical scholarship (and viewpoints) on the books of Daniel and the Revelation, and was encouraged to read it when I learned that Charles Spurgeon had a favorable view of the work. While Elliott's work is mainly a thorough analysis of the Book of Revelation, Elliott does address Daniel's Visions and does a a fair and honest job (in my opinion) at reconciling portions of Daniel with the prophecies in Revelation. If you do end up reading it, I hope God blesses you through it.

@jjmulvihill

4 жыл бұрын

J Kim Thanks I’m sure I’ll get there to read Elliot’s work. He is the strongman of Historicism. Nice to have such resources available. Thanks!

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 23 truth bomb

Excellent lecture...Only the Preterest or Futurist view makes sense. In my opinion only the Futurist view is accurate without hyper spiritualization of clear texts. Daniel chapter two is a good beginning! The stone cut out of the mountain will become an indestructible visible Kingdom! Who ? Christ ..not the church is clearly the stone (Isaiah 28) . When ? Judgement must precede The Kingdom establishment...not be integration and assimilation but by power and imposition! (Rev. 19-20)

LOL - in final thoughts: "horsepower." Epic, unrealized pun.

36:28 the perceived limitations to the historicist position.

18:12 thats Luther, not Waldo lol

@PityDaFool

10 ай бұрын

Where's Waldo?

I like the... interpret Revelation in conjunction with the evolution of western history only.

@FRED123duh

2 жыл бұрын

Which is to be expected sin e the antichrist rose in the western hemisphere and is also one of the main theaters of Christian history.

Except for the prominent SDA concept of the "Year for a Day" theory, I see no problem with the "Historicist" VIEW which by default includes SOME "Preterist" views. and SOME "Futurist" VIEWS. Even though I do not know EXACTLY what every symbol refers to, in General, it gives me GREAT COMFORT to know that GOD is in control of History, from the beginning to the end. Most of all, the End of all things is the RETURN of the Lord Jesus Christ for God's Saimts, whether dead or alive. The "Preterist" Hope is what? A possible Utopia here on Earth, without Christ's actual presence, and then Christ returns just to destroy every thing they worked for? The "Futurist" Hope is what? To be "removed" from the Earth to ESCAPE the supposeed most terrible times which supposedly will be INFLICTED on the "chosen" people, the Jews. The "Historicist" Hope is the visible, physical, RETURN of Jesus, to gather his SUFFERING Saints unto himself, after resurrection of the dead and changing the living, unto IMMORTALITY, and Reigning on Earth with THEM, in a "Millenial Age", UNTIL all things are RESTORED on Earth to God's ORIGINALLY intended purposes.

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

@paulnavarro3822

3 жыл бұрын

@@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua - Sorry, I do not go to "links" from others unless they THEMSELVES, i. e. you, actually make a COMMENT to let me know where they are with respect to my comment.

@abel4776

3 жыл бұрын

The fact that preterism and futurism where created by Jesuits, is all I need to know to reaffirm that the historicist view is the true path of approach to biblical study. And in makes sense as well. ChristianityBeliefs.org

@IHIuddy

3 жыл бұрын

Depends on I guess how you take the book of revelation. To me it’s hard to justify that much time when the book itself says not to seal up these words because the time is near. But we go back in Daniel 8. Daniel is told to seal up the words because the time is in the distant future. Which was about 500 years until Jesus Christ the messianic age. So seal the words 500 years... don’t seal these words 2000+ years and we are still waiting? I don’t get it. If Jesus was to actually physically come back and gather his elect would that not shut the gate of the heavenly kingdom? It states that the gates will never be shut meaning people will always be entering... because outside the gates are the dogs murders and all kinds of evil... also I have a hard time seeing these first century Christians understanding the French Revolution... the letter was to them for them to understand what was about to happen because the time was near.... anyone who has ears let them hear.

@IHIuddy

2 жыл бұрын

@@apropos4701 beautifully said. I happen to see this in the same light. 40 years yep. Temple destroyed yep, the destruction of the great city of Jerusalem yep.

Isn't it amazing how history and Christianity moved from the Middle East Westward so connect the dots the Anglo-Saxon people are the descendants of the 12 tribes and who printed the Bible and sent missionaries all over the world!? The same people so if the shoe fits

all these great scholars never read that "there are many antichrists?"

As a Catholic, I am not offended. The political decisions of the Pope is not something that we consider perfect throughout time. Israel had some bad kings, but as David states in 1 Samuel 24:6 about killing Saul: He said to his men, "The LORD forbid that I should do such a thing to my master, the LORD's anointed, or lay my hand on him; for he is the anointed of the LORD."

@servenet299

8 жыл бұрын

+Matthew Thomas Yes, David was cautious, shall we say. He determined that it would be THE LORD Who would destroy Saul. And so it was. I fail to see how you find any comfort in this particular OT reference. I urge you friend, to come out of the false religion of Romanism. Eschew ALL your religious (or otherwise) works as meritorious, repent and put ONLY your trust (faith) ONLY in Christ's meritorious WORKS in life and death. Simple child-like faith in the Savior alone will save you. ANY reliance on church and/or self will damn you (Galatians 3:10).

@therenewedpoet4292

8 жыл бұрын

+Harry Savannah I am not afraid of my church, or for my church. Jesus gave the keys to Peter, that's a reference to setting him up at the Prime Minister. That's what we think of the Pope. Jesus says at the end of the Gospel of Matthew that He would be with us until the end of the age. The new age did not begin with any protestants, it begins with His return. I have put all my hope in Jesus Christ. We lead religious lives to imitate our savior. I don't understand your reference. Paul starts out that chapter by talking about the Spirit. What we have received in the Spirit we're not to give up because of the flesh. So to me the apostles were given the Spirit and an if other men come along trying to correct the Spirit, we shouldn't believe them. The law is different from the moral obligations Christ instituted. Catholics don't carry out the Mosaic Law, we follow Christ's moral teaching.

@servenet299

8 жыл бұрын

_The law is different from the moral obligations Christ instituted_. I'm sorry my friend but this is nonsense. The Ten Commandments are at the center of God's law. It (as a moral unity) is the abiding law of God. Gal. 3:10 is warning all who would rely on their keeping LAW - moral, social, or ceremonial and thus RELYING ON THEIR WORKS will thus be judged. But God does not save us by our works ("works of _righteousness_") but through faith alone -Titus 3:5. I tell you again, that if you rely on your own efforts, moral or religious (many religious exercises prescribed by Romanism) you are without hope. Your thinking so only deceives you. I tell you all of this only out of Christian concern.

@therenewedpoet4292

8 жыл бұрын

+Harry Savannah John says "We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them." 1, 5:18. We are not willing ourselves to heaven by our works, we just think it's a good idea. We know we're still sinners, but its a good faith effort and it shows we are born again of the spirit. You aren't listening or reading what I'm saying, you just have biases about the Catholic Church. Thank you for your concern, but I'm doing fine. My old self died on the cross with Him and He lives in me. We're not as bad as you want to believe. Shalom.

@servenet299

8 жыл бұрын

Matthew Thomas Just now have become aware of your reply. First, let me say that I hold no animus toward _people_ who are Roman Catholic. So your off-handed remark about your (Catholics) not being as "bad as [I] want to believe" is (I _have_ to believe) disingenuous. But to the pertinent matter. There is a universe of teaching and religious exercise over centuries of time that provide a weight of proof of the works-righteous nature of Roman Catholicism that is massive indeed. However, here is a sampling of the dogma of the Church itself on the matter: Council of Trent, On Justification, Ch. XVI Therefore, to men justified in this manner, whether they have preserved uninterruptedly the grace received or recovered it when lost, are to be pointed out the words of the Apostle: "Abound in every good work, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord. For God is not unjust, that he should forget your work, and the love which you have shown in his name"; and "Do not lose confidence, which hath a great reward." Hence, TO THOSE WHO WORK WELL"unto the end" and trust in God, eternal life is to be offered, both as a grace mercifully promised to the sons of God through Christ Jesus, and as a REWARD promised by God himself, to be faithfully given TO THEIR GOOD WORKS AND MERITS. The language is unequivocal and UNMISTAKABLE. The Catholic Church insists on a person's OWN good works to avail in the prospect of their salvation. This is a teaching spiritually fatal for any human being to trust in. You need not reply once again and insist that this is not what the RCC teaches. I can both read and comprehend straightforward prose. I am convinced as well that you are so trusting in this Church that you will tell yourself whatever you must to remain confident in your adherence thereto. This is most common with all religionists of whatever sort. Finally, let me say that I have no doubt you are a fine fellow and I wish you well.

I enjoyed that😃The Cathers(who were Gnostic in there belief’s)also believed that the pope was the antichrist.There was a tradition which existed into the 16th century,that the antichrist would be an ex-monk who would marry an ex-nun.It’s easy to see why the pope would turn the insult around on Martin Luther and refer to Luther as the antichrist!!! Antichrist does not come from a succession of popes however,but is referred to as “the man of sin”,”the son of perdition”-2 Thessalonians 2:3.He also cannot have been Nero,as the Lord will destroy “666”,””the number of a man”-Rev 13:18,”with the brightness of His coming”-2 Thessalonians 2:8,in Revelation 19 verse 20. Whereas Nero committed suicide outside Rome on 9th June 68AD,aged 30! Therefore Revelation teaches that the man of sin”,”666”,is a future individual,because Christ has not returned yet! Ps,I loved the way you made the book personal with the scroll brother,very good👍

You said it yourself it's Western history

The problem is that the history of the Catholic church certainly fits the prophecies in revelation. I enjoy listening to Bruce Gore on his many subject's, but on the subject of revelation he seems to have the attitude of a man who seems to believe that prophecy is either already fulfilled or yet to be fulfilled and never can be in the process of being fulfilled in recent history. It's almost as if he believes that it is arrogant to believe that it is happening in our time or in a time of the recent past. Well they have to be fulfilled at some point and in some peoples lifetimes. It was this attitude by many in Jesus' day that may have caused them to miss the fulfillment of prophecy when He arrived in the world. People tend to think that oh that's for another generation not my generation. It's silly we must always be on the alert for the coming of our savior.

@marthabautze6650

4 жыл бұрын

Karen s. Good point, and perhaps the slaughter of 70 AD Jerusalem destruction would have been reduced if more people had read and heeded the warnings in the Olivet discourses of the gospels.

@Anotherparadigmshift

4 жыл бұрын

So why was Revelation written to those seven EXISTING Churches? Why was it "at hand" and "shortly to come to pass"? Why would Jesus say He's coming quickly? Why not seal up the prophecies as in Daniel? That was around 600 years away. How long has it been now? Why say this generation will not pass away til all is fulfilled? Why say let the wicked remain wicked and the righteous remain righteous? What does that mean now? The time was up. Paul also said to live as if your mot married and similar things. Why? Acts 2 "in these last days". Hebrews 1 "Hath in these last days". When were the "Last Days"? All end time Scriptures are pointing to the END of the Old Covenant.

@Anotherparadigmshift

4 жыл бұрын

@@marthabautze6650 The Jews who became Christians did heed the Olivet Discourse and they fled just as Jesus instructed them to. Unbelieving Jews stayed and Mystery Babylon was judged.

@marthabautze6650

4 жыл бұрын

realitycheck2020 Thanks. I have since learned this, that the true believers did flee, escaping to Pella (?) when they had a chance before 70 invasion.

@marthabautze6650

4 жыл бұрын

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou HAST SEEN, and the things which ARE, and the things which SHALL BE thereafter. That sound like past, present and future to me.

Never met a Historicist who can tell me A) where we are in terms of prophecy and B) what comes next. Just a lot of mumbling about Luther and Popes and dead emperors. I dont mean to be rude but I've listened to about 6 videos trying to find out what they believe and all I get is what they dont believe.

@margreethakkerman4026

2 жыл бұрын

Historicists don't predict the future as futurists do, we dont do date setting about Jesus' return as the futurists do( and always have it wrong) but we look to the history and see fulfilled prophecy. Most of the book of Revelation is fulfilled, we are now in the time frame of the seventh bowl. These bowls( or seals or trumpets) are not 1 day events ( judgments of God) but often stretch out during a long time period. What is your eschatological view?

@margreethakkerman4026

2 жыл бұрын

The historicists that I listen to tell me exactly what they believe, very clear and biblical interpretation of prophecy such as the book of Revelation or Daniël. Greetings and blessings.

@BloodRedLFC

6 ай бұрын

@@margreethakkerman4026 Hi, i'm a recent Historicist convert! Mind if I know who do you hear and learn from?

At around 38 minutes of your video, you make a remark that doesn’t fit with the scriptures! What are we going to do about what GOD himself said: Leviticus 14:10 (KJV) And on the eighth day he shall take two he lambs without blemish, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish, and three tenth deals of fine flour [for] a meat offering, mingled with oil, and one log of oil. Leviticus 23:12 (KJV) And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD. Numbers 14:34 (KJV) After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, [even] forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, [even] forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise. Numbers 28:3 (KJV) And thou shalt say unto them, This [is] the offering made by fire which ye shall offer unto the LORD; two lambs of the first year without spot day by day, [for] a continual burnt offering. Numbers 28:9 (KJV) And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour [for] a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: Ezekiel 4:6 (KJV) And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year. If GOD himself determined how one should count days and years, your theory falls apart, Maybe one should take the scriptures at face value! Every real great revival in the history of the church starts by those that believe the same basic concept, (papacy is the Antichrist)! Shouldn’t that fact alone make one to think?

The office of "Pope" is not found in the Bible!

@marthabautze6650

4 жыл бұрын

Aquilla Fleetwood. How about The Beast in Rev 13:1 from the sea (Holy See) who has 7 heads (hills of Rome)and 10 horns and upon his horns 10 crowns (popes) and upon his heads the name of blasphemy?

@jameschandler4276

4 жыл бұрын

@@marthabautze6650 private interpretation

@marthabautze6650

4 жыл бұрын

James Chandler. True enough.

@aquillafleetwood8180

4 жыл бұрын

Revelation was read by the first century people too! They were told about the city that sits on seven hilll, which those in the first century would recognize as Emporer Worship of the Ceasars! This later corrupted into a false Christianity with the coming of the false office of the "Pope"!

@Anotherparadigmshift

4 жыл бұрын

@@marthabautze6650 Who else is surrounded by seven mountains? Jerusalem. Who was riding the Beast (Roman Empire) and killing the Christians while thinking she was in control? Jews in Jerusalem. Who was responsible for the blood of the Prophets? What city could have been a harlot (unfaithful) to the Lord? Who was burned with fire by the very Beast she use to ride? There can be only one answer.

The placement of Revelations at the end of the Bible was done to terminate the authority of the Holly Spirit to reveal God's Will and give all power to interpret Scripture into the hands of scribes and pharrasees..

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb

After listening to this sermon, I now think and feel that my original suspicion's that the speaker is a Tare in sheep's clothing has now been strengthened. The impotence of the modern church is because they have yoked themselves to the false religion of the the man of sin and are fooled by Ribera into a futurist or preterist hermeneutic. God is not bound by any principle of interpretation man creates.

@GoreBruce

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for that generous and thoughtful review!

@johnclark2867

10 ай бұрын

@@GoreBruce Your Welcome! Apology, but Historians like rash reactions. My mother Holy Names. My Father Saint Mary's. Saint Ambrose Church. I switched from Loyola to Luther and my firstborn homily - Earl Palmer 1977. I once tacked past Alcatraz no resemblance to Patmos. How could Tacoma know? I suspect my Dad notified the Vatican. My journey to find community asylum from Dominicans? None to be found anywhere. Ribera gets out of Purgatory card. A minimum standard of living is necessary to maintain credibility. Middleclass zombies in the pews is the modern metric. So now that totalitarianism is out of the ocean once again. A- miracle, Come out of the whore house does not fly. We must all die comfortable peaceably not a Mountain DEW soda. Keep up the safe work for soon the Titanic may sink.

Almost all of your criticism of the historical interpretation apply more than double to the futurist and preterist views.

This is typical Roman Catholic Church teaching concerning the End Times.

@jamesharris3642

3 жыл бұрын

Read Daniel 2, 7, Revelation 12,13

why is the historicist approach frowned upon by these "Intellectuals" and "Scholars"when the Prophecies and visions of Daniel are scripturally proven to be historical accounts of future events beginning from Daniel's time to the end? I mean did the Statue in the dream of the King of Babylon, and the beasts in Daniel's dream NOT represent historical Kings and Kingdoms that would reign on the earth? The Angel interpreted as such for Daniel! Can it be backed up by secular history? Of course! So why if the book of Revelation is the sequel to the prophecies of Daniel and a continuation of them do we foolishly abandon the historicist approach? I think it's clear there's a unified effort to suppress the historicist view because it's the truth, and because pinpoints the Antichrist man of Sin as the succession of Popes who murdered millions during the dark ages and the inqusition trying to annihalate the disciples and followers of Christ. They usurped the true Church of God with this pseudo Christian paganistic heresy called Roman Cath*****sm. The papacy is uniting the world religions and the nations under the guise of protecting planet earth from global warming. Need I say more? WAKE UP. BRUCE GORE IS A JESUIT WORKING FOR THE PAPACY TO KEEP YOUR EYES OFF OF THE ANTICHRIST. The papacy sent out their operatives to counter attack the protestant reformation and they're still doing it today. This man is a false teacher whose goal is to serve and protect the RCC Papacy and keep people asleep. I bet you will remove this comment instead of addressing it and proving my points are wrong about the bible proving the historicist view in Daniel and Revelation.

@GoreBruce

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your thoughtful critique (although as a card-carrying Calvinist I was surprised to hear I'm also a closet-Jesuit!). I considered rather sympathetically the historicist approach many years ago but was finally frustrated that about the only point of agreement among those I read was that 'the pope is the antichrist,' a proposition for which I actually have some sympathy. I hope you have a sufficiently open mind to consider the case I make for a first century frame of reference for interpreting Revelation, which I present in some considerable detail in future lectures in this series. Blessings to you and yours!

@ruahfire7566

Жыл бұрын

@@GoreBruce "I considered rather sympathetically the historicist approach many years ago but was finally frustrated that about the only point of agreement among those I read was that 'the pope is the antichrist,' a proposition for which I actually have some sympathy." It's good to know there's enough evidence for the historicist view to keep you sympathetic. I don't believe the various interpretations on the book of Revelation is a valid reason for rejecting the historicist approach. A person of your capacity should be able to test the different interpretations and see what fits and what doesn't. Many points can be proven and many are left to speculation until they're fulfilled and confirmed by world events as they become history. You hold to the view that the 7 heads of the beast are literal "Kings" (Singular Men Rulers) and you believe they represented the First 7-8 Caesars of the Roman Empire. If you bare with me, I would like to scripturally disprove (using the book of Daniel) the interpretation that the 7 heads which are also "7 Kings", are referring to single men rulers, and instead refer to 7 Kingdoms (which include their specific Kings). Revelation 17:9-11 New King James Version 9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also *SEVEN KINGS.* Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. *11 THE BEAST that was, and is not, IS HIMSELF ALSO THE EIGHTH, & IS OF THE SEVEN, and is going to perdition.* Verse 11 shows that the beast (a Kingdom) is the Eighth King, which proves that the 7 "Kings" in Verse 9 refers to "Kingdoms," and not singular Kings/rulers. Also, we know the 4 beasts in Daniels' visions represent Kingdoms/Nations, and the horns represented singular rulers/Kings of those Kingdoms. So if the BEAST (A Kingdom) IS THE EIGHTH KING, then it's obvious that the "7 heads which are 7 Kings," refers to "Kingdoms," as defined in verse 11. But you say the text clearly says "Kings" not "Kingdoms" in verse 9 (& you're right) but if we let the bible interpret itself we get the true and correct interpretation from Scripture. Can we find any other instances in the bible where the term "Kings" actually meant Kingdoms? Yes, In the very book of Daniel concerning the interpretation of the 4 Beasts! *Daniel’s Visions Interpreted* 15 “I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit within my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near to one of those who stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things: *17 ‘Those GREAT BEASTS, which are four, ARE FOUR "KINGS" which arise out of the earth.* (BEASTS = KINGS ACCORDING TO VERSE 17) *STRONGS H4430 KINGS/MELEK:* *מֶלֶךְ melek, meh'-lek; (Aramaic) corresponding to H4428; A KING:-KING, ROYAL.* 19 “Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; *23 “Thus he said: ‘THE FOURTH BEAST SHALL BE A FOURTH KINGDOM ON EARTH,* Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. (Notice in verse 23 the Angel is now calling the Fourth Beast a Kingdom, but in verse 17 the beast was called a "King") *24 The TEN HORNS ARE TEN KINGS Who shall arise from this KINGDOM.* *CONCLUSION:* We clearly see that the word King(s) MELEK, is used synonymously and interchangeably with "Kingdoms" which are represented by Beasts. A HORN is an actual specific singular ruler/"King." So Revelation 17 Verse 11, and the interpretation of Daniels' Vision of the 4 beasts completely REFUTE your interpretation of the 7 heads being 7 Singular Kings from a single empire. Verse 11 defines the 8th King as a "Beast" which is a "Kingdom" not a singular King. Since verse 11 defines it this way for us, and the book of Daniel (which is the prophetic prequel to the book of Revelation) confirms the definition of verse 11 in the interpretation of the the 4 beasts, then I think we can both agree that the 7 heads which are also 7 Mountains & 7 "Kings" *Represent 7 Kingdoms.* Now defining who the 7 Kingdoms are can be speculative, but let's focus on what can be proven scripturally in Revelation and not on what can be speculative. Please let me know your thoughts on this biblical interpretation of Revelation 17 concerning the 7 headed beast. Peace be unto you and thanks for your time.

@ruahfire7566

Жыл бұрын

@@DonaldUndercoat Hello Barney 1014. Do you agree that the bible interprets itself? I'd like to get your thoughts on my refutation of Bruce's interpretation that the 7 Heads, which are 7 Mountains, and 7 Kings, are referring to singular King/rulers. I will condense my previous response to Bruce which he never bothered to address. We begin with the interpretation from the Angel of the 4 beasts in Daniel Chapter 7: *17 ‘Those GREAT BEASTS, which are four, ARE FOUR "KINGS" which arise out of the earth.* *23 “Thus he said: ‘THE FOURTH BEAST SHALL BE A FOURTH KINGDOM ON EARTH,* Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. (Notice in verse 23 the Angel is *calling the Fourth Beast a "Kingdom,"* but in verse 17 the Beast was called a "King?") 24 The TEN HORNS ARE TEN KINGS Who shall arise from this KINGDOM. (Notice that when it actually refers to singular Kings/rulers it calls them HORNS) We can conclude to a most certain degree based on these previous scriptures that a BEAST is a KINGDOM and that the word "KINGS" is being used synonymously with, & representing KINGDOMS, which are BEASTS. This is proven beyond a doubt in Daniel 7:17 & Daniel 7:23 where the Word "Kings" is being used to represent the 4 beasts which represent 4 kingdoms. *CONCLUSION: 4 BEASTS ARE 4 KINGS WHICH REPRESENT 4 KINGDOMS (NOT SINGULAR KINGS/RULERS)* Now, this interpretation is used again in Revelation 17:9-11, which Bruce has erroneously interpreted as singular Kings/rulers that he believes represent the first 7-8 Caesars from the Roman Empire. Let's see the bible interpret itself again: Revelation 17:9-11: 9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: *The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.* *10 There are also seven kings.* Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. *11 The BEAST that was, and is not, IS HIMSELF ALSO THE EIGHTH, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.* (Verse 11 is the Key that interprets the 7 heads/mountains/Kings. It let's us know that the 8th "King" is a BEAST (A Kindom or Nation) just like the Angel told Daniel in his vision of the 4 beasts.) So if the 8th "King" is representing a BEAST which we know represents a Kingdom or Nation, then that means the rest of the 7 heads also represent BEASTS or Kingdoms or Nations. We see the same interpretation being used for the word "Kings" in Revelation 17, as was used in Daniel 7. I would like to get your thoughts on this and also what you believe the 7 heads scripturally represent. Peace be with you.

Here's where your speech falls short... Historicism is based on the idea that Revelation could not be understood until the time of the end. And the time of the end starts when Israel returns to Israel. Though I do respect your opinion and thank you for a fair review of our beliefs.

@davidbrooks7385

2 жыл бұрын

Dispensationalism " futurism " as well as past or the preterist view has a well documented beginning. They were concocted by Jesuits to be a counter reformation. This was to take pressure off of Rome and the Papacy. This is well documented.

I enjoy these, but sometimes there's something to challenge. The Spanish Inquisition shows the Church intervened in a good way by the Inquisition.

"Historicists interpreters have been unable to date to ever establish an objective criterion by which the book is to be understood" Bruce Gore He hasn't met me. I know all scripture from beginning to end.

@Deacondan240

4 жыл бұрын

roger cloud - criteria, to start, day-year metric; second, the glory of God thru fulfilled prophecy vs preterists’ forced interpretations; third is consistent OT to NT historical interpretation of Rome. Just a few.

@joeiiiful

4 жыл бұрын

Very arrogant comment.

@rogercloud6003

4 жыл бұрын

@@joeiiiful . It's very simple really. God in Genesis 6v2 gave mankind/Adam 120 Jubilee's before He destroys him. Why? Because mankind is continually evil. I am not just talking about the bad guys either, I'm talking about the good guys. Most Christian's are going to tell you they won't be here when destruction (judgment) comes. This is wishful thinking. All we have to do is look at the record. When God destroyed the known world in Noah's day, only 8 people were left alive to carry on. And that is only because Noah found grace in God's sight. The same thing happened with Lot; only on a smaller scale. And so it will be at the end of the allotted time. Already we are winding down. The first half of Daniel 12 is already water under the bridge. WWII was a prophetic event, as was the Holocaust (as mentioned in Daniel 21v1-3). The trigger for the final judgment was the founding of Israel as a nation on May 14, 1948 ( a prophetic event revealed by *Maimonides himself 728 years in advance). People think Jesus is going to meet them in the air take them from the wrath to come. They are only half right. Jesus will meet them in the air, but only at the point of their deaths, just like Stephen in Acts 7v55. That's IF they knew Him while they were alive. Do you know Him? Here's the deal that seal's. Jesus was prophesied to first appear in 77 Jubilees. He did. And He will appear the second in the exact same way He left a second time, in 77 years. Here's wisdom. The towers fell on the first day of the year 6000 on the Gregorian calendar. The Earth quaked (2004) in the first hour of the 6000th year of the Jewish calendar. All these events I mentioned are calculatable. You just have to have the key. Which I have. * Maimonides got his information from the first century Rabbi named Jose ben Halafta which he codified in the Mishna Torah in the 12th century AD.

@chapter404th

4 жыл бұрын

roger cloud you think the tribulation happens in this lifetime? Explain..

@rogercloud6003

4 жыл бұрын

@@chapter404th. There have always been tribulations, it has never stopped, since time was created. However, I understand what you believe is "great tribulation" is the last 7 years of mankind is actually called the end of the age of the Gentiles. This time is prophesied to come to fruition in these las 7 years. The time this is referring to is found at Revelation 11v2. The forty two months, which began on December 6 2017. The thousand two hundred and three score days begins shortly in June of this year. 2020. If you knew the times you'd understand the 6000 years is set to expire in 3 years and 8 months. Trumpf is that last president. Look at his record. As bad as that is he will remain as president for the duration of the last years. When you see this become reality then you'll know that what I'm telling you is true. The Hebrew don't track time like we modern peoples do. If they did we'd already be past the allotted 6000 years. The ancients tell time in Jubilees. As I mentioned in the original post the Christ was prophesied to appear in 77 jubilees, and He did. Now the time set out for the Hebrew came about in 1939, and 1941 respectfully. 1939 marked the end of the 6000 years of Jubilees for the Jews. 1941 aka the Holocaust is the year the Hebrew were prophesied to "live in His sight" Hosea 6v2. For the gentile they have another 77 years as a grace period until their time expires. All this is recorded in the book of Daniel as well as the other prophets.

Also, I have never met a soul brought to Christ by the book of Revelations. I have seen it confuse the faith of many. By it's fruit , let it be known. ,

@brandonvonbo9708

4 жыл бұрын

Bible prophecy is the fingerprint of God and gives truth to his word through its accuracy.

@joeiiiful

4 жыл бұрын

So, can we understand that to mean that you are Omniscient? How can you possibly make such an arrogant comment?

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bomb !!

@georgevalco215

3 жыл бұрын

Not true ! Multitudes have come to Christ when brought to terms with their eternal destiny

@nsptech9773

Жыл бұрын

@@georgevalco215 Yes, I'm one of them

All prophecy has been fulfilled just as our Lord Jesus Christ promised! We live in a New Covenant world! Our Spirits have been resurrected! God has restored the pre-fall Adamic relationship with His people! Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God but your spirit is there now......and in you! When we put off the flesh will be your best day ever! For He has prepared us an eternal spirit body!

@BiblicalFlatEarthJoshua

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqqEwaqgaJrSpaw.html mathew 24 truth bombs

@JordanWallace-nb4id

10 ай бұрын

New Testament, new covenant has not come in yet

@toolegittoquit_001

8 ай бұрын

@@JordanWallace-nb4idSince the Old Covenant has been completed, what Covenant are we living under then ? We’re under the New Covenant 🤦🏻‍♂️

@Triumph_of_the_Sky

6 ай бұрын

Matthew 24:34. The Kingdom Jesus promised His Disciples arrived 1,954 years ago.

@montyklaus7223

6 ай бұрын

Hog wash

Let's all be honest. NOBODY really has a clue.

I used to hold to this position before I realized what total nonsense it was. Some even believe the Whore of Babylon and the Beast that devours it are one and the same. Which is horse****. Thank God I finally converted to Catholicism too.

Can you please tell me where in all of your videos do you cover Rev. chapters 6 thru 18. I can’t seem to find anything listed as such? Thank you

@GoreBruce

4 ай бұрын

Here is the KZread playlist: kzread.info/dash/bejne/pIil2qWNpZW1mrA.html

@user-sh4tn7iv9f

4 ай бұрын

@@GoreBruce Thank you Bruce, I went through that presentation twice and enjoyed it. At the end, you mention that “next week we’ll be going through some of the texts Revelation,” but I can’t find the one that deals with scripture texts, itself, ie, Rev; chap, 6 - 18. Is there somewhere else in your teachings that I should be looking? Thanks, again.

@GoreBruce

4 ай бұрын

I'm a little confused. The playlist I provided covers all of Revelation in detail.