If you want to know more about this DIY amp, here is the link to the original video. Check the description for info on the parts. kzread.info/dash/bejne/mXhn29KnpKWsaMY.html

@ebarbie5016

4 жыл бұрын

The ICEpower module in the video and probably the one you got is the 200as which is an old and outdated module with low switching frequency and no support for BTL mode which allows you to use a stereo Amp as a monoblock. The newer modules are the asx family like the 125asx2, which is rated at 400W in BTL and has a 650kHz switching frequency. The as modules are designed for subwoofer use and not full range speakers due to limited 250kHz switching frequency. I recommend you do try a newer module in BTL. Contact Ghent Audio for help. I'll bet that the 125asx2, which is the same dual modules used in ps audio 3000$ stellar Amp, will sound better that your current non class d amplifiers.

@sudd3660

4 жыл бұрын

at 1:34 video show the modules used. ICEpower200ASC and datasheet says the following: typical switching frequency idle 430 kHZ, switching frequency range 460Khz, switching frequency power supply 64kHz. the newer ICEpower250ASX2 goes to 600 kHZ and 92 kHz powersupply.

@ebarbie5016

4 жыл бұрын

@@sudd3660 They are still inferior compared to the ASX2 series: www.profusionplc.com/parts/icepower200asc look at the price difference: www.profusionplc.com/parts/icepower250asx2 100 vs 260 pounds per module, The ASC are stereo only, and ASX2 are stereo or mono BTL at 500W and 650kHz frequency. ASC is generic for subwoofers and av receivers, ASX2 for high end hi-fi. Dial 250ASX2 will cost you 510 pounds. PS Audio Stellar will cost you 2000 pounds for the exact same modules...

@sudd3660

4 жыл бұрын

i am not commenting on sound quality difference, i just have the 200 asc myself and have spec sheet here. i notice you have the numbers wrong, in the sound apartment i can't say much.200asc is mono modules only, got to buy 2 modules to makes stereo power amp. and in not sold on blt or bridging amps, you basically half the ohm they can handle. many speakers dip below 3.7ohm, bridging an amp that handles 4 ohms easily now only does 8 ohm.

@Atipam

3 жыл бұрын

Very good video with great amount of detail. As a musician and sound engineer I use class-d for reference monitoring. What you have described as a disadvatage of this amp seems to be a huge advantage for studio use. For this reason I would say that this amp might worth a try without tube stages for reference monitoring.

Best explanation of differences between class D VS class A/B amplifiers I have ever heard! Thanks again Thomas your one of the best! Really appreciate your no bs reviews. Can’t wait to see what you come up with next!

Bro yr Flex was so funny "I don't have a $3, 000 Amp "........

@maxjasmine

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah,I don't have the Lexus but I do have this 13 year old Corolla that gets around.

Best audio review I've listened to yet. Made some great points in a very clear and concise manner in answering my class D questions 😀.

1st time hearing one of your videos. You have a very easy manner to your presentation. Very well done; subscribed.

Thank you Thomas , please continue to teach us . This was so informative .

Just saw this. Thanks for the shout out. It's great to hear your friend is happy with it. I'm really glad that video is helping it those who want to do this type of project. I'm loving your setup. You have some real nice equipment. Keep up the awesome videos!

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for dropping by and yeah, my friend really enjoyed working on the unit. Your video was detail enough for him to be able to built it easily.

Thomas by far has the best audio reviews I've found.

Ha! Bought the Freya+ preamp based on your video and just got used Jeff Rowland 535 to give class D a try. They push Open Baffle speakers by Spatial Audio. (M3 Sapphires) The class D bass control and the high-end colored with tubes make for a good listen in my world... thanks for all the great content.

This is one of the most useful audiophile videos I've seen on all of KZread, even if you exclude the fact that I have been contemplating building that amp - which I have now decided I will indeed build. Thank you!

really interesting and well produced video. Thanks man

Thanks Thomas for your analysis.

Great information, I didnt realise class D has become so popular with high end equipment 😮👍👍👍 i only knew about it from 15 years ago with bass amps for cars 😬👍

I'm just getting into quality audio gear and enjoying your videos.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Welcome to my channel.

I really enjoy your videos and your thoughts. Your stories about the expiriences you share with your hifi friends are very sympathetic to me. My friends do not share my interest in hifi, but we communicate in a similar way about wine.

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, it would be nice if I enjoy wine too but sadly I don't. I know I am missing out a lot.

Hi Thomas, It seems no matter how great a piece of equipment there’s always something about it that keeps it from being perfect. The audiophile is always in search, forever restless, hence, tortured. But I do enjoy your listening to your search for unobtainable perfection!

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I completely get it :)

@andersforsgren3806

4 жыл бұрын

Not forever, but you're right I have been tortured for many years.... Just after the turn of the year the Matsushita and Toshiba tubes arrived and I have reached audiophile nirvana. There's marginally better tubes out there, but I am not going to feed the greed of those who ask hoard them and ask exorbitant prices for such.

One class d amp i have been very impressed by is the Icepower250a amp module. I'm using it with elac uf5 floorstanding speakers. On aliexpress/ebay they sell finished amplifiers based on it.

@Mr8ohms

4 жыл бұрын

The amp in the video is a icepower amp module

My first time building a DIY amp, it was done in less than 3 hours and connected it to my first DYI SWANs 3.1 speakers that I just completed. This really was great fun, value and quality sound well beyond the price point! Compares well with many other AMPs that cost significantly more. It killed my PS audio SPROUT. Now looking for my first DIY tube pre-amp Ito pair with them!

@MarsMaynard

Жыл бұрын

Did you ever find a good DIY tube pre-amp to pair?

@shawnjohnson7680

Жыл бұрын

I would also love to know what preamp/dac you paired with this. I’m looking to build swan 3.1’s and an amp like this soon too.

First time listening to you. Instant subscriber.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Welcome to my channel !

I totally agree about class D and tubes pre awesome combo nice video

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Yup, you tried it so you know how the bass is.

Awesome video mate

I purchased the SMSL 98E class D amplifier, and with the right interconnects and speaker cables, along with my reference CD player and speakers, I am convinced, that this little amp out performs....Class A, AB amps ive owned that cost thousands! As far as am concerned, my days for expensive....snake oil audio gear is over.

@brynybach7741

3 жыл бұрын

.

I have XTZ Edge A300 and JDS Lab Atom. This combination is very good!

This is a great video. I'm building my loudspeaker system as of now and I went with a class AB luxman amps. They're stereo but can be bridged to mono, which is how I'll be using them. though I considered Class D amps. When I get my base system setup with the class AB monoblocks I just got maybe later on I'll try some modern class d budget amps. Thanks for your great vids!

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Your welcome. Luxman makes very nice amps, congrats.

Very clear video thank you

I've build my own twin monoblocks class d amps using two ICEpower asx125 modules in BTL mode. I'm using using them with NAD C658 preamp DAC and Focal Aria 926 and the sound is great. I've borrowed a dual Electrocompanient monoblocks that costs over 5000$ and could not tell the difference. The diy project cost me about 700$. ICEpower modules are great

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Nice, thanks for sharing.

Thanks for this video.

"First off, I don't have a 3K power amp. I have a Hulk" Flexes. Proceeds with video.

Excellent video. You convinced me to build one of these, or something similar, and get a tube pre-amp to go in front. I'm just getting into hifi, but I have the blessing/curse of having a slight neurological disorder to my hearing that makes it so I can't pick out sounds the whiter the noise gets. Blessing because I know the truly high end hifi equipment is just wasted on me, curse because I dont understand what you are saying while this microwave and fan are running. Thanks for the excellent video. Your descriptions and reasoning were easy to follow and your persona was earnest and sincerely interested in the topic.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Check out the XTZ video I made and upcoming crown video.

@audioaficionado9494

4 жыл бұрын

XTZ is only $200 more, but no balanced XLS or true monoblock setting. Still might be fun DIY project.

Great video. Learn a great deal. Always watch your videos 2 or 3 times, because I pick up something new I missed. Switched to Simaudio A/B amplification recently. Curious on your experience, which speakers and brands pair really well with your Simaudio Moon amp and why? Thank you, cheers.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Well the older simaudio, I find them warmer but the latest moon are quite analytical. I paired them with so many speakers that I don't really remember. Although it sounds good with most, I would say my moon is not as good compared to my class d amps when the speaker is difficult to drive.

This amp lets all of my speakers sound like they are supposed to sound. Choice of pre-amp has more effect than amp does, in my experience. I have this as a near field system with a pair of JBL S38ii studio speakers and a tube pre. It has no right sounding as good as it does for what is invested. This system will thump you to your core and never gets hot.

HI, great video. Will you please do a review of the Focal Kanta 2 or 3 you recently purchased? Thanks a lot!

I love your channel, Thomas. It's like sitting down over a coffee with a friend who's into the same stuff. Interesting about the lower-cost class D sounding thin. I was tempted by the kit but may not build it unless I come by some older speakers. I have heard good things about the Primare A35.2 - using Primare's own take on Hypex-like technology. Currently waiting for an audition... However I have just tweaked my Primare+Exposure+KEF Reference system after a house move and am in love again. 😀 FWIW I have 2 WLAN routers and a DECT wireless phone near my system, also all lights are LED with dimmers, so ferrite cores on all power cables have opened up the sound beyond belief (less congestion, more clarity, more dynamics and bass) and decoupling the KEF References from the concrete floor has made them sing again. I used to believe in spikes but no longer. To my surprise decoupling the KEF References released more top energy. And I was genuinely shocked by drum impacts on tracks I know well. Now I experience performances, instead of 'canned music'. All the best from Switzerland, Rob

@ememe1412

2 жыл бұрын

'Lower cost' class D is in the realms of power output, marketing and chip used. The measurements is in the 'diminishing returns' category once one gets past the realistic home performance level (based on health and social responsibility lol). Class D measurements are as electronically hifi as accepted audibility can be. Subjective listening qualities is another matter. It's flat and distortion levels are low low. It will sound thin(er), no matter the cost of the unit, when paired with accurate speakers and audiophile source. A lot of speakers (especially standmounts) have bass bloom engineered in to them to give body to the mids. Most hi end floorstanders with good bass response in themselves, are badly positioned in room also resulting in bloom. All these create an impression of 'a fuller' sound we get used to but check against monitoring headphones. The components used for these are pennies. The chip and marketing is where the cost is. Even on cheaper units using old chips or copied tech, measured and audible performance hasn't necessarily been surpassed at domestic use level by more recent chips. On the marketing side, the same Hypex nc400 with relatively unobtrusive tweaks and board layout change maybe produced OEM for big brands. So in the end, one is paying for the brand and not the tech. Have a peek at the Hypex site. Not all their OEM agreements are public but which Hifi brands are using their tech directly? You can get this module OEM inside a €1k machined aluminium chassis, with platinum posts and sockets for €500 and buy it retail for €4k. It will sound the same but with more badge kudos on the rack. Actually, look around for this types of examples. My one criticism of Thomas, because he's not inclined to look under the bonnet of amps, he places too much weight on retail cost of a unit as a guideline to expected performance. I've grown sick to my stomach, for example, seeing the same Chinese OEM phono circuit board between products that have a 200x price difference... I'm paying for the logo and a fancy chassis, I don't mind. But, I'd be damned if this reflects performance in itself.

DIY amps can be easily sold on diyaudio. Just not for what you paid for them.

excellent video - thanks :)

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

Im a noob and stumbled on this and I have to say it's an outstanding explanation of amps in general. You lost me on the higher end amps' characteristics, but your room layout is breathtaking. I'm a guitar player, not a singer so my ears are a bit "guitarded" anyway.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for dropping by. Yeah, it took me months to built that room.

Interesting. I'm running a class D amp with a valve CD player.

The B&O icepower is well worth the money, very well build no fuzz amp. you can plug directly into 230/110 volt power. It got auxiliary power output to Opamp filters, so no worries on fail ground issues. The noise is none existing. I can not hear any digital sound to it, sound warm to me. All though my speakers do have that sound allready. A really recommended product to DIY speakers.

@Tbonyandsteak

4 жыл бұрын

I believe B&O was the inventor of digital sound, to their own products, so naturally they are in a pretty high standard already when they came out. All though they sold Icepower later.

Have been using a Chinese assembled 125ASX2 in my living room along with an LC75342 pre-amp and love it. If I need a vintage coloring I'll switch over to my 1959 integrated Knight amp. Otherwise class D rules.

I'm running Rotel RMB-1085+emotive UMC-1 with two pairs of Maggie MG12s + 2x Polk DSW pro 550 subs( speaker level ), yes a multi channel setup and I love the sound. Bad recordings do stand out on my system. I had to trash a CD that I once liked. I went from Yamaha DSP A1 to this. I've been running the Maggie's + Rotel class D for about 10 years. I grow up around my dads tubes, hybrid, AB amp, Quad ESLs , and ohm speakers. My second system is 2 different stax ear speakers + oppo Blu-ray player. My favorite amp was my dad's moscode 300 connected to my Maggie's. My first speakers were genesis genre 2 I got when I finished highschool in 98. I've listened to a ton of hardware over my life time ( 40 years ). It seemed like everyone was pooping on class D when I was enjoying it. Now everyone is starting to take it's seriously.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Nice, thanks for sharing. I never tried Maggie at my place but heard it a few times and it is nice.

I found my sweetspot at the Audiophonics HPA-S250NC. That's a dual mono Hypex 250 pre-build. I can't imagine anything sounding cleaner. It's just overall trouble-free.. I guess that's what you'll call transparent. You literally don't worry about your amplifier anymore, your sound gets amplified but in no way can you fault the amplification stage. No noise, no distortion, super linear, extremely fast response. €699,- class-D perfection.

@Biefstukje

2 жыл бұрын

Do you still have that amp? How you feel about it? I also got it but maybe war to get a tube amp. What pre amp do you use? I got smsl su 9 and audio physic classic 20 speakers.

Nice video Thomas. I hear many people enjoy their Pioneer Elite receivers which uses some form of Class D technology in their receivers. Gobs of power and they stay cool. The last Pioneer receiver I owned had the older MOSFET amplifier in it and was quite good. To my knowledge Pioneer is one of the only receiver manufacturers that have moved on exclusively to Class D with most everyone else still using some form of Class AB.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

I never heard the elite series so I don't know how good they are. The regular series are not audiophile level though.

@kingtrance6826

4 жыл бұрын

@ Thomas & Stereo - The Elite receivers are nice. Certainly a step up from their regular line. We’re not comparing them to Classe or Pass Labs amplifiers of course.

Great insight as usual Thomas. I agree you need to balance class D with some smoother components to get a pleasing sound. Some R2R DACs and smoother transistor pres like the Ladder Schuman can achieve similar results without the high maintenance of tubes.

I have watched a few of your Class D videos... I can say this, when I hooked up my SVS Soundbase to my SVS Ultra and a pair of Klipsch, I immediately heard a sonic difference vs my Emotiva XPA2. Everything opened up, I mean opened up. I'm beginning to become a fan of the D's, along with the price compared to A/B. Got the Freya... ;-)

@ThomasAndStereo

2 жыл бұрын

Congrats!

i found a used power amp made from exactly those modules a few years back, nice to see someone review them. they come in mono modules with own power supply, do you end up with proper dual mono and 2x 100watts in 8ohm. I do not have tube in my system, bel canto dac 2.5 as preamp and dac, i really should look into some tube preamps at some point. i have subwoofer so thin sounding below 150 hz is optional for me. i also had a similar hypex power amp for testing before i choose the icepower one. only reason i sent the hypex back was i got some hiss noise from it.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

I see. Yeah, adding a tube preamp in your setup might be something worth trying. Thanks!

Imma be using three ice power amps for the ultimate Bluetooth speaker. 1 x 10” Dayton ultimax and two Morel/Parts express ardon speaker kits. It will all be one large unit. 1 x 500w for the sub and 2 x 200w for the L and R outputs. It’s gonna be nuts!

Awesome video Thomas. I'm really interested in this amp. I just don't know what affordable pre-amp would be good with it.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Hmm, something with tubes and warm characteristics.

You nailed Thom, all gear have some sort of coloration. I personally find well designed class D amps like ICE or NCore very neutral without the sometimes "sterile" signature of SS. And I like them because of that neutrality. I have built an Ice power amp box similar to the one you have using their smaller module, single ended stereo, 50 watts per channel. I wanted something small, compact and not too expensive to go with my mid range Schiit gear being repurposed for my home office. The ice power modules work very well for this purpose. I do prefer the Hypex modules though. I think they will give you a more high end presentation than the ice modules. I have their NC400 monoblocs in my main system and love them. And they are compact and run cool, I can hide them in my living room cabinets for a minimal stereo system.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I need to try Hypex class D amps too, hopefully one day!

@iikatinggangsengii2471

7 ай бұрын

doesnt matter really if sound made from ex a12t it will sound best with a12t, thats it pretty simple

Exactly correct. As a studio owner and operator I know that Class D and Solid State amps are tighter in the lows. Therfore I use a classic like an SSL 4000E eq and Preamps on drums(kick, toms, and overheads - variably) and bass, along with API eqs and Pre's on mid frequencies-variably and Neve 1073 eqs and Pre's, 88, etc, on highs-variably. For instance on a nice acoustic guitar that needs to fill the midrange ill use an API, for the attack and grit I'll use a Neve, for big body punch I'll use an SSL, etc. Well the same concept applies to audio listening as well. Depending on your crossover(it's gotta be good and clean) you can set one to run your lows 0hz-800mhz through a Class D amp, and put the rest through a class A. Or get crazy and split it 3 or 5 ways! Variable pots will make selection of crossover assignable frequencies more fine tunable and possibly accurate(depending on what your going for), however for recalability stepped pots are recomended. Of course then you have to worry about phase and phase distortion, but those can be dealt with after a little experimentation and research. What might be great is a digital crossover with low latency. That way you can cure a multitude of problems before they happen! Good luck and keep us posted! For lows keep it solid state, tubes nature it bloom in the bottom end. However the bottom end is only 1 small part of the story, so bear that in mind! 1hz-1khz takes up half of the frequency spectrum! And you say.. "But Ass, the frequency spectrum runs from 20hz-20khz(relatively as ut actually runs higher), and I say" Yes, but that low end information is larger! So when you think about filing a room 20hz-1khz yikes up half of the room with that 1000 cycles of information because the waveforms are larger and take up more room, whereas 1k-20khz cycles are smaller therefore they take up less room in a per cycle basis!" Food for thought. Eat it up and digest for future reference.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Nice, thanks for the long comment. I don't have as much technical knowledge as you guys so always nice to read comments like these.

Very informative. That class D is definitely interesting.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I think class D is something everyone should give a chance to.

@nabildanial00

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo not until you listen to the purifi amp. it is the best sounding class D amp ever, hands down.

@editorjuno

4 жыл бұрын

@@nabildanial00 -- Yeah, it's really outstanding, Bruno's best yet!

Thanks for another interesting video. What are your thoughts about Primare class D amps?

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, never heard those, sorry.

Interesting feature and I have been looking for some d amp monoblocks and it seems hypex ncore's are making waves over icepower modules...and some are voiced so it would be nice if you would review both the high and low end products from Nord acoustic and also maybe hypex's own nc400 DIY mono's

@mikecole4924

3 жыл бұрын

Try the Purifi option... next level.

i might try this with my Yahmaha NS-1000m since i dont like to spend alot on an amp!

Hey Thomas great video . I had a gato dia 250 was very bright in my system . And is class D. Have you heard bel canto dac 2.7 would like your thoughts on that . Would like you to review Somme piega 40.2 Speakers. Keep up the good work.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Well, you need something warmer than in the front end, or perhaps your speakers just don't work well with class D. I never heard Bel DACs so no idea, sorry and thanks!

I build $300 DIY ICE amps and I love it. It's great with Pro-Ject Pre-amp RS that has tube output and all Balance. Phono stage Whest PS3R. My speakers are Merlin TSM. I listen to l mostly Punk Rock and Garage Rock on vinyl and sounds really good the base is deep and tight like it should be. I don't listen to audiophile crap. The low cost DIY class D just does things right.

Nice

Another thing with class D is that you needs to be left on for long listening sessions and I agree that the pairing is great based on some form of a straight tube design or some type of hybrid tube design. I remember when I first made the move to class D from tube Audio Research Vt100 MKIII to the Audio Research DS450 and thinking what the hell have I done. The dealer told me ahead of time to plug the amp in and let it run for 4 days and he was right it opened up a great deal and sounded great. My Dealer hosted Audioquest at his shop and used my amp instead of the Ref 75 or Ref 150 and it didn't disappoint, but it was backed up by the Audio Research Ref 5se.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Hey Sid, yeah class D needs to be plug in for a while before reaching optimal performance. I don't turn off my class D amps actually. I just got a pair of Wyred4sound mono blocs and they sound pretty good. Wow, going from tubes to class D and you were ok with it? Yup, class D have come a long way.

Do not be afraid to also ad a self powered subwoofer. It will help. And yes, the warm sounding component (Pre amp, cables, tubes,...

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Yup, I have 2 REL at my place.

Really interesting and super well done. There are a lot of possible angles here e.g. comparison of say ICE/Ucd/Ncore which you have alluded to. Class D is easy to run passive with high Zin's, though as you point out needs 'warming' - it makes for a good upgrade path. Schiit Freya with switchable tube/SS/Passive modes(i think??) would be a convenient way to try out/review the impact of different input stages. Couple more points; I think well-done DIY classD amps are seeing a little more traction 2nd hand - the idea is becoming more popular and not everyone wants to take it on, and a 'below cost of parts' deal on something already built must be a tempter to some. Indeed, companies like 'Nord' are essentially a professional implementation of this (though they have obviously done a vast amount of work in their development) I suspect the 'transparency' of class D makes it very susceptible to influence from the preamp stage, a trait that can be used to much advantage. e.g. you get more of a 'new amp' by just changing the pre than you would with a more coloured power amp?

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Great points you brought up. I need to try other class d amps besides ice. When a system is neutral, it is easier to tune the sound of a system. Thanks.

My synergy is class AB for mains and class D for the subs. Sweeeet!

@gustercc

4 жыл бұрын

I don’t even know how to plug so many components in to one another. Sigh. I’m sure I’ll work my way up.

@ronaldmcdonald2456

4 жыл бұрын

Little bit late to the party on this one, but i parked this video because I kept getting interrupted by everybody, and I'm just getting back to it. :) Anyhoo...glad to see somebody with the idea of using this thing for the subs. I had the same idea mainly because I'm slowly (as the money drips in) building an active speaker system requiring 8 channels, 4 of which are high quality class AB, and a bit on the expensive side. So the this little class D looked like a possible stopgap solution. Good to see you're pleased with the move you made!

Great video! Are class d amps pioneer elite recievers any good?

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Sorry, never heard them.

"Class D is true to the source." Thomas, that's just such a great point. I've been an audiophile for 45 years and owned both class AB solid state and tubes. For the longest time I loved, loved, loved the sound of tube amplification, but eventually I realized that those amps made the voice on my Johnny Rotten tracks sound like Tony Bennett. Obviously, when that is happening something is drastically amiss. Plainly, the tubes were coloring the sound with audible distortion, and, having at long last come to that realization, I am now of the school that says distortion is distortion, and needs to be eliminated no matter how "pleasant" it initially seems to make the sound. The unit you listened to is an entry level Class D. Personally, I think you need to audition something like a Hypex NC400 Class D build, or a Benchmark AHB2, or a Purifi build by Nord. Those amps are using edge of the art ultra low distortion modules, and you might find they best whatever you have in your equipment rack for less than your $4000 Bel Cantos. Class D might even be for you, albeit with a more advanced design at a somewhat higher price point.

@editorjuno

4 жыл бұрын

That Benchmark is a fantastic, highly sophisticated amp, but it's not actually a Class D design -- although it's similarly small, light, and efficient.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment. Yeah, I need to get my hands on some different kind of class D to try.

Having just assembled an HYPEX NCORE 502MP I will say that self-built Class D is a very viable option for anyone wanting world-class sound. My self-built amp is now the best amp I've ever owned. The main feature of for example HYPEX or PurFi amps is that they have NO signature, or coloration - just pure, clean sound, and lots of power at incredible efficiency. I really listen to my preamplifiers, not the power amp - and depending on what I want in a particular scenario I can completely change the sound by using for example tube preamplifiers or solid state / mosfet preamps. I will never go back to Class A, or A/B.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah the lack of coloration is one of the appeal of class d.

@ranelime

4 жыл бұрын

Hey, can you share a link to that kit? I thought these are only OEM. Would love to get my hands an that kit :)

@decoryder

4 жыл бұрын

@@ranelime The 'official' kits are here: www.diyclassd.com/diy-kit/ - anything other than that is indeed OEM only.

I bought icepower 1200as from nord acoustic while they are technically very good and smooth sounding. There were lean and bass was super fast, controled but lacking impact and decay was super fast. I use it with bright and fast speaker and I did not like it at all. So I agree matching is important and tube in chain should help.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Yup, it is all about synergy.

Nice vlog as always....have you tried a Nord Acoustics One NC500 MK2 ? It uses an A class input Op Amp in to the D power Amp 👍

@sudd3660

4 жыл бұрын

i am wondering the same thing, want to upgrade from my icepower to more powerful class d as some point. but it looks like it runs pretty hot a idle and low loads. i like how icepower runs so cool

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

No but one day ! One day!

@editorjuno

4 жыл бұрын

There is absolutely no point to mixing Class A and Class D -- almost any audio-specific op amp chip will give you the same (or better) performance driving a Class D output stage as any Class A input circuit, so matter how well-designed.

I would like to see some blind A-B tests of the different amps you have there.

I tried recently Primare i25 integrated and it was shockingly good. The source was McIntosh CDP.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Looks like a nice integrated.

@a.i.dimmer4616

4 жыл бұрын

i have primareA20 mk2,like it better than my powerful roksan candy mk2

The best available Class D amps are based on Purifi output modules, designed by same genius who did the NCore modules for Hypex. Both Purifi and NCore modules blow anything from IcePower right out of the water. Moreover, the latest and greatest monolithic Class D chip from TI, the TPA3255, is performance-competitive with the IcePower stuff for far less money -- I just bought a Chinese-made TPA3255(x2)-based 2.1 amp board via AliExpress for about $32 USD with free shipping. When it's done right, Class D is nothing less than a revolution in home stereo and professional audio amplification -- in fact, my current little 2.1 "chip amp," based on TI's older TAS5630 chips, is both much more powerful and every bit as great sounding as the highly-praised, Nelson Pass-designed Adcom GFA-535 I swore by back in the 1980s on up though Y2K.

@tednugentlives

4 жыл бұрын

Well put. Class D put serious power and simplicity in the hands of average consumers. The DIY crowd has a world of options. Marshall amplifiers went from mosfets to class d on the solid state models and the power per dollar has tripled.

@editorjuno

4 жыл бұрын

@@tednugentlives -- I use a pedal-sized Quilter MicroBlock 45 that sounds so good through my vintage JBL that I've retired my old Tweed Bassman clone.

@featherboards1565

4 жыл бұрын

Great info. Do you have diy amp designs you can link to?

@impuls60

4 жыл бұрын

Some of the TPA3255 designs have taken too many shortcuts so don't buy the cheapest versions on ebay. 70-100usd costing versions for pcb chip amp usally have good output chokes which is extremely important in class D. The layout on the pcb is extremely important in class D because of the high switching frequencies, so naturally some design isn't as good as others. A low esr powersupply paired with a class D design can give extremely good bass but yet neutral sounding. The best assembled kits I've tried is so far from 3e-audio on ebay. I've also tried some from LJM on ebay which even cheaper and sounds quite nice. The best TPA3116 also sounds good but doesn't have the power the other ones have. Because of the efficiency these design have it's never been this cheap to get good audio.

@romeostorm4854

4 жыл бұрын

Bruce i was a hater of class D for years then i heard a amplifier with the Hypex ncore power module and i saw the light wow great great great sound. For the money class D cannot be beat period. The days of having a giant toroidal transformer and giant heat sinks in a 60 pound amp are gone class D is just as you said a revolution in home audio. And with all the money saved buying a good class D amp you can get some really kick ass speakers.

You can always add a tube preamp to add bass.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

I find adding tube preamp to increase holographic soundstage.

I believe the class D amps sounded dry to people is due to the use of SMPT power supplies. My tpa3116 amps and 3255 amp paired with high end regulated linear power supplies don't sound dry at all. As a matter of fact, I put all 10 tube amps including 2a3s, 45s, el84s on shelf and have no desire of going back to them. Speakers used are Mcintosh XRT18, Celestion 7000 and Pioneer A30 coaxial in a 2.5 L ported box. (My experience with SMPT PS is dry sounding. The sound has that glossed-over quality no matter what type of music played.)

@ThomasAndStereo

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, we have a class D amp with a linear power supply, sounds not dry at all.

I think the way to go is tri-amplification with a quality active crossover. I've wanted to try a class-a to drive the tweeters, a class-ab for the midranges, and a class-d for the woofers.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Just have to make sure the timing is right with a tri amp setup

@wb2pcv

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo I'm always laboring to get my timing right... lol!

you never mentioned whether the amps you tested and the DYI matched up in per channel power, etc. which may explain the difference in base and such. Personally, not ready make a move to D, but it's clear they're coming into their own.

I've been using a Class D Audio SDS-470C power amp (made in USA) with upgraded power supply for more than 7 years, can't find anything cheaper that sound as good as the SDS power amp, not sure if it works like other amps, but it does work well with my Wharfedale Denton 80th speakers.

@ousi00

4 жыл бұрын

I have one for my rear speakers. I tried it on front channel while it works pretty well but it does have a relatively high background noise. I didn't notice that for the rear channels because the speakers were far away and I have the trigger turning it off if I'm not on movie inputs.

@wim1983

4 жыл бұрын

If you hear close in few inches, sure has noise, but it's not hearable from normal listening distance, another issue would be overheat at Malaysia here, anyway I'm OK to have the cover removed all the time though.

@scottlowell493

4 жыл бұрын

@@ousi00 The noise is a power supply hum. It is audible close up, but from as little as 6' away, it's not.

Hahahaha had to pause and say love the casual way you say I happen to have two 4k class D amps .....legend

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Hehe...

@scottlowell493

4 жыл бұрын

Lyngdorf $250,000 statement amp: class D.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

@@scottlowell493 only :)

@tednugentlives

4 жыл бұрын

My car cost less..

@deevnn

4 жыл бұрын

Your house costs less. Lol

I agree since the goal often is neutral the 300 dollar can be good enough. Funny how balance works regarding your friends gear working with the cheaper one. Then again a schiit mani is better Than many more expensive phono stages so there you go. I have a little bear pre amp that goes into a dynamic precision 2000 euro amp. Just to be able to go xlr to the amp. It sounds amazing.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it is all about synergy. The more expensive gear is not necessarily the best gear for a system.

As a man whose main amp is a semi-diy setup, I'm interested in this. I call it a semi as it's an early 70's Pioneer tube receiver that I've effectively overhauled over the last decade and now that I know it inside and out, I can pick up on what component does what to which sound. I don't know if the same would apply here. But, hmmmm,,,,

@keithb6717

4 жыл бұрын

I believe all Pioneer receivers were solid state in the seventies. Yours is probably early to mid sixties. What model is it?

@akr01364

4 жыл бұрын

@@keithb6717 They maintained a small line of tube based ones sold mainly in Japan (I believe mine came from a military PX on Okinawa). Though, a few retailers in the States maintained a supply: the ER-420.

Hi Thomas. Always enjoy your videos. I recently built the DIY Class D amp suggested by Guntars Smits on his video. As he recommends, I use a DacMagic Plus as pre-amp. It sounds surprisingly good. I live in the suburbs of Montréal. If you would ever like to compare to your friend's $300 DIY Hifi Amplifier, do not hesitate to let me know... I would be curious... Perhaps others would also be...

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

I am at La Prairie, what about you?

@gilbertlessard4380

4 жыл бұрын

Vaudreuil-Dorion ...20 minutes by #30

@gilbertlessard4380

4 жыл бұрын

I have a Naïm Naît 5i that I switch back and forth with. They do sound different to me, but most of my friends (non-audiophile) cannot tell the difference. My Naïm puts out 90 Watts @ 4 ohms while the DIY puts out 250 (according to Infineon’s spec sheet for Iraudamp7s) Feel free to let me know if a comparison would interest you.

Great videos! How do I find you on Canuckaudiomart?

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

turbotan is my username on canuck.

There is a $350,000 amp which uses 833-A power tubes normally used in radio station transmitters. It runs on 1000 Volts. One can be built for about $1500 and use better driver tubes.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

I guess its good to know people who can help build those high-end amps.

very informative! but i want to build a studio monitor, what amplifier will give me the most "accurate" sound? i was thinking in goes with class A (but as i am a colourist i think it isn't the way to go)

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

I think some other people who have studios commented in this video, check out what they say.

The 200ASC and 300ASC are some of the better sounding IcePower modules. However, I agree that Class-D in general is leaner-sounding than Class-AB. Hypex nCore comes extremely close - a friend of mine was actually happy with a pair of nCore monoblocks taking the place of his hot-running Pass Aleph-0 amps in the summertime to keep his listening room cool. Class D is also happier driving complex or low impedances than a lot of other amps are. And if you need a low-cost entry into hi-fi, a class-D chip amp with the TI TPA3116 chip is one of the best things going in "cheap and cheerful" hifi.

@randalllawkin

4 жыл бұрын

I see the nCores usually have better measurements on Audio Science Review.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I have to try nCore some day

So how would this $300 amp compare to a $3000 amp that sounds like a $30,000 amp?

Interesting....how does a class D amp sound with a turn table? Do you lose any of the warmth you get with vinyl? How does a speaker switch (to drive 4 PSB speakers) and/or input selector (for CD, phono, computer, TV, etc) affect the sound of the budget amp? If so, how?

I’m all class d amplification now. PS Audio M700 mono blocks in one room and crown xls 2502 with KEF LS50’s. Great pairing but needs a smooth DAC like a PS Audio Directream DAC or tube preamp to balance the sound well.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Nice, I would like to try the M700 one day.

@CaptainCrunch823

4 жыл бұрын

Thomas & Stereo M700’s are really great amps but I prefer pairing the Crown xls 2502 with my KEF LS50’s which is kind of funny to me because of how much less expensive it is and it isn’t marketed as a “hi-fi” product😊 thanks for all of the great content that you create and enable us to enjoy! I’ve learned a lot from you and really appreciate it!

@CaptainCrunch823

4 жыл бұрын

Sorry forgot to mention that I also use a REL T7i connected directly to the Crown xls 2502 which also integrates really well with the LS50’s. I can’t listen to LS50’s without a good sub in the mix😊

Yours Bel Cantos have the same Ice Power modules inside.

@ThomasAndStereo

3 жыл бұрын

Well, a lot of class D probably use something similar, it depends how they design the rest of the circuit that will make all the difference.

In my experience, Class D is not lean sounding. To me it sounds really neutral with incredible dynamics and bass slam. I have many amps and I like my Class D amp (Emerald Physics EP100.2 SE) best for watching action movies. My other tube and solid state amps sound a bit "colored" by comparison. Sometimes I prefer "colored" vs "neutral" - so much depends on the source, system, room and personal perferences. At the price, I think this is worth a try.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Yup, I guess it is relative. For some, your description is perfect. Neutral with incredible dynaimcs and bass slam. I just noticed that relative to some of the warmer class AB and A amps I have tried.

The best way to get your hands on some good sounding amps is either by DIY or 2nd hand! I use a tube pre with my class D amps (Ncore) to add some warmth back to the music. What pre/power combos have you tried with that DIY amp? The Scott? how about the Freya?

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Freya is not warm sounding so it depends which Class D amp I pair it with. Ncore seems pretty popular, I should give it a try.

@dannyng5427

4 жыл бұрын

@@ThomasAndStereo I bought Freya+ after watching your video, I just ordered Ncore NC400 Mono blocks waiting for them to ship.

My class D audio amp isn't a kit- but can be ordered as such. One of the differences in my Class D amp vs others? I have a power supply with large storage caps. The storage caps make a BIG difference in dynamics and overall sound.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Yup that is one of the reason why not all class d amps sound the same.

Hi Tom also I paid 800 Canadian for mc10t yagin

I was thinking about trying to build one but I don't want to waste money. I'm listening through an avr would it be an improvement

I'm still listening on my Class A amplifier.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Congrats. Enjoy what you have and that is the most important.

Would love to hear your thoughts about the new Behringer A800, audiosciencereview measurements shows it's pretty good with lots of power.

Regarding that resale comment I would like to say: 1) If you buy it's 3.000 concurent, the day you take it you will loose minimum 300 $ we are talking about. 3) If are going to sell it with a discount for the buying price and you state - BO modules inside I bet you will be able to collect most of invested money!

I heard good things about Tripath based chinese Topping TP60 you should check this out

Would this DIY amp be an OK way of upgrading a lower end surround receiver with more power? I'm using a Pioneer VSX-2016AV, running DynAudio Audience 52se front speakers that I would like some more power to. And most power amps seem to end up costing more than this DIY kit. So this does seem like a very appealing solution, and I also know that the newer Pioneer receivers use ICE Power modules for the power section.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Usually when I suggest people to upgrade, it is to jump 2 levels. I think it might be one level up from an AV receiver but you will need 2 level up for a noticeable difference.

Tom I also own klipsh rf28 please read the class d xls2502 has won best sounding class d for 2019

I would bet that the high output impedance of the class D would make it better to drive "hard to drive" speakers.

Thomas, do you have a link to the specific amplifier model? GhentAudio… Got that. Saw it on the back face. Which specific model are you showing us in your discussion? Thanks!

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Check out the original video, he listed everything in the video description. kzread.info/dash/bejne/mXhn29KnpKWsaMY.html

I've always thought that the goal is to amplify the signal faithfully with no distortion or coloring. All else comes down to personal preference and what you have become accustomed to. With lab test equipment, we can measure the performance of a component far more accurately than the human ear can discern. If you want a different sound, add a 20-band EQ and set it to what you like.

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

Depends what your goal is. My goal is to built a system that makes me enjoy the music. I don't care if I recreate faithfully what the artist intended. Check out my Loki review where I go into more detail.

Merry Christmas, Thomas!

@ThomasAndStereo

4 жыл бұрын

You too! Happy new year.