And then there's "pan-millennialism," whereby, "it will all pan out in the end." I'm thankful that these ideas do not depend on our salvation. Christ is King in all these ideas.

@linwoodkent1246

2 жыл бұрын

I'm so thankful also, that Christians are NOT REQUIRED to comprehend EVERYTHING in the Bible, especially the End Times. Only this is REQUIRED " to Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father sent to die for our sins, be buried, and rise after 3 days for our Justification. Let's not be sidetracked by different opinions on side issues. Love to all brothers and sisters.

@Sundayschoolnetwork

2 жыл бұрын

@@linwoodkent1246 amen!

@thefellowheirs

Жыл бұрын

@@linwoodkent1246 1 Cor 15:1-4. Amen thank you for your comment!

@timothytookes1191

Жыл бұрын

Wow. Finally an option even for me. I'm relived of thinking I have to pick just one. God is sovereign. His will, will be done.

@kevincourtney7312

Жыл бұрын

I cannot believe that this is the Kingdom "Now" because I expect Jesus to rule absolutely. We are living in lawlessness right now and Jesus is not a liberal so no, this is not the Kingdom of God on Earth at present.

Praise God someone else who believing Revelation was written prior to AD 70.

@deandalley3607

6 ай бұрын

It wasn't written before. No way!

@FRodriguez_

3 ай бұрын

@@deandalley3607 what is your argument against the partial preterist view?

Here is a simple way to understand the 3 views. Post - things are getting better and better and soon Christ will return to a triumphant Church and welcomed to earth as King Amill - things are already great and Jesus is ruling from his throne in heaven Pre - things will get really bad but then Jesus will return and put everything right again.

@kevincourtney7312

Жыл бұрын

Exactly why I'm pre-mil. When are things going to get better? Never until Jesus comes and sets things right.

@fridge3489

Жыл бұрын

​@@kevincourtney7312 Lol. No, mate.

@bruhmingo

Жыл бұрын

@@kevincourtney7312scripture and history disagree

@FreddyZierau-zv8qx

Жыл бұрын

@@bruhmingo current state of insane wickedness and apostasy point to pre mill

@Jigsawdotkom

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for this. Idk why a 10-minute theology course was an appropriate answer to this question

Pastor Joel has the best Reformed beard I have ever seen.

I've been reformed now almost 9 yrs or so and it was mainly by the Holy Spirit leading me to watch Jeff Durbin on his channel. I quickly left the pre-mil camp and felt safe into amil teachings. Now fast forward as of the past 6 months, by watching this channel and keeping tabs on Pastor Durbin and James White, I finally have fallen in love with what post mil teaches and how it really puts all the missing pieces and questions I had all in sequence. I give glory to God for leading me with His Spirit. What a wonderful journey it's been. I'm now explaining all my recent discoveries with my wife. I pray she'll be on board soon. Thanks again for this channel. God bless your ministry!

@RightResponseMinistries

Жыл бұрын

Praise God. Thank you brother!

@anonymoustruth5950

Жыл бұрын

In no way is postmil accurate it bypasses significant verses that have not been fulfilled. It also completely ignores the fact that the kingdom is not surging forward but on a rapid decline. Evils of this world are growing stronger and stronger. This is such a bizarre and odd way of viewing scripture

@anonymoustruth5950

Жыл бұрын

@@stephenmcdonaldjr I am really really confused because I definitely respect some of these post mil pastors a lot. They are not preaching a false gospel but this is just such a strange interpretation they have it seems so obviously not true.

@travissharon1536

Жыл бұрын

Post mill literally doesn't make sense to me. I also don't like it's similarity to what the neo-marxists are doing. I'll look into it more deeply, but it's a traditionally liberal theology stance.

@myscabula

Жыл бұрын

Same im reformed been a Christian a year and 4 months.

Thank you for this video.

Thank you, enlightened, refreshed on this subject now, as a starting point. Really like your point, commentary re: amillenialisn, that it’s almost over spiritualized. We’ve always had issues with certain views that are over spiritualized and little emphasis on the physical. Coming to mind is a main point of ‘fleeing Babylon’. Know of individuals in times past where it’s been stated, it’s a spiritual fleeing, and work, getting Babylon out of your heart, mind, etc. But, we believe it’s also physical, one is to do something, go somewhere, discard something, some place. The scriptures are filled with examples whereby peoples were admonished to do something physically. Examples: Noah, build that ark (not just spiritual, and The Lord gave exact measurements, specifications), Abraham, leaving to a land The Lord showed him, Lot, fleeing physically, Sodom and Gomorrah.

@bh613

2 жыл бұрын

I’ll need to re listen to it. There should be a heart change thus a change physically. Yes, Christ is in control right now and has been since before Matthew 28:18-20. Are we participating with the work of Christ as people who are reborn? (Yes). Thinking about those questions and pre and post helps get closer to what looks to be working. Jesus please help us all to better know You.

Christ is ruling as King in the hearts of Christians ... not in the earth or world. That is yet to be fulfilled. The governments of this world are currently not on his shoulders, but they will be.

Great short clip👌🏽

Never thought about it or really knew about it. I've always understood it as, when Christ returns we go home, to a sinless home. I never fully understood the 1000 years stuff. Just when our precious Lord comes the dead rise first, the living join them, in the twinkling of the eye we will be changed... it's real life time. So...? as long as I'm with Jesus I don't care which is right, do I need to care? I'm accountable to Christ now, He is my King, the King. What does that mean?

@DivineMisterAdVentures

2 жыл бұрын

True few care about the reality of their faith - they just have faith - and that is the mean (middle position) of Christianity. But I teach the REALITY of your faith, it its day.

@shekarigaming7983

2 жыл бұрын

@Matthew if you want to learn about eschatology then go to Graceland Ministries’ channel (kzread.info/dron/qGLO9IP_lVZ85ZZYhP6KPQ.html). This guy has no idea what he is talking about. Post Millennial position is just as wrong as the other 2 positions.

@DivineMisterAdVentures

2 жыл бұрын

@@shekarigaming7983 bad link!

@shekarigaming7983

2 жыл бұрын

@@DivineMisterAdVentures works for me.

@tonymuse

Жыл бұрын

Honestly, I'm not sure that anyone truly understands it. If it were crystal clear then we wouldn't have so much division concerning that topic.

This was great. I wish he would’ve touched a little bit more on the differences between premil and Postmil.

Pastor Jeff, I’m still confused but will look for more info. I see there is another utube on the subject with you and I do see other good pastors teaching this.

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

@janeyue7491

Жыл бұрын

Yes! His kingdom is not of this world. However, the scripture also say, Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is on hand! What does on hand means? It means there is a spiritual kingdom, spiritual church while here on earth. The 1st heaven was the Old Testament regarding God’s chosen people, the nation of Israel. God’s chosen nation of Israel represents the church, which is 1st heaven. 2nd heaven is the kingdom of heaven here on earth. It is when born again children of God join together and worship Him in spirit and in truth, singing hymns and praises, talking about Jesus Christ, praying together, etc. Third heaven is high and lofty, when God children will be with Jesus forever.

@ENDofREGULATION30

Жыл бұрын

@Jane Yue just as the Jews did not understand "if you destroy this temple I will rebuild it in three days", or, "before Abraham I AM", so you likewise can't understand "at hand!" We try to understand things from a finite viewpoint. As Peter said, "a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day" to the Lord. Is 2000 years not "at hand" on God's timescale?

@hooked_on_jesus4959

Жыл бұрын

@@ENDofREGULATION30 nice dig, but has nothing to do with the context of my statement. Jesus will not set up His Kingdom on earth until He returns. I simply posted a bible verse with no commentary. If you take issue with what Jesus said, take it up with Him.

@janeyue7491

Жыл бұрын

@@ENDofREGULATION30 The temple that Jesus was talking about was His body, which He has resurrected. It is not talking about temple as in a church building, but His body, and that is what has been prophesied. 'Before Abraham I am' is that Jesus is king long before He created the Heaven and the Earth. He is king before the time, and He will be king forever and ever. 'A thousand years is as a day' depending on content means a long long time, or eternity. Also, 'repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand!" That relationship, that fellowship we can have with Jesus while we are in this world, where He is our master, and we are His servant is what makes us His king. So, if something is at hand, you can get a hold of it. In Matthew 26 when they come to the garden to take Him that night before the crufixication, the garden of Getsemane, and He said He is at hand that taketh me, meaning Judas was at hand. He is in the place right now, as the hour is at hand. He is here, right now. So when Jesus said that the kingdom of God is at hand, it means that the kingdom of heaven is within you right now. The spirit is within you. The kingdom of heaven is righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, and part of living in that kingdom is following Jesus.

1. Cor. 15. is a tricky one to read because the way the verses are placed vs 24. "then comes the end when He delivers up the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and authority and power." Vs 25. now explains why vs24. is so. "for He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet." He DOES reign now but all His enemies are not yet put under His feet. So the 1, 000 year reign comes between the resurrection of the just [the rapture] and the end.

@thejusticeavengers1

Жыл бұрын

I agree

Great summation of the differences. Thank you.

Question: can you give me a simple description of the differences between pre post and a millennialism? A: No. I’m going to waffle for the first five minutes and confuse everyone even more.

@sandina2cents779

Жыл бұрын

I thought I was the only one not getting a clear answer.

@Jigsawdotkom

11 ай бұрын

💯 I hate when people make things more complicated than they have to be

@BlackAxeDayTrading

11 ай бұрын

When you have to "set the stage" so deliberately before giving an answer or explanation, it means you are very concerned about the reception of it by the audience. It is a psychological defense mechanism which attempts to address all potential concerns with a weak position before presenting it so as not to be challenged on it. Postmillers are really hung up on their own perceived jobs, position, and importance.

@lucysnowe31

10 ай бұрын

Exactly. And the repetition of "the most symbolic book in all the Bible" didn't help matters for me either. I keep trying to like this guy but I just .... don't. I'm not Reformed so maybe that's why but I've listened to him several times and he just rubs me the wrong way. His non-explanation explanation here hasn't sweetened the pot.

@oracleoftroy

10 ай бұрын

​@@BlackAxeDayTradingPremil is a fundamentally different approach to the bible, and you won't understand postmil if you aren't willing to dive into those differences and see it as a whole. For example, premil will drive by claiming that this or that verse disprove postmil, but rarely will they properly explain why and often have no clue how we understand the passage in the first place. Rom 9-11 is a common one for some reason. In my mind Rom 9-11 leave no room for premil and completely refutes it, but many premil will cite those chapters as if it is amazing support for their position. I have no idea why, and the few who bother have done a poor job explaining. But it would be a lazy and dishonest approach to claim premil is false because they need to setup key insights into their system first to help me understand how they make any sort of sense of that passage.

Thanks for your opinion. I’m a classic pre who leans into dispensational pretty hard.

I am still learning and my views might change tomorrow, but right now I would say I lean 65%, 34%, 1% - Premil, Amil, Postmil, respectively.

Then there is partial preterism which the late, great theologian R.C. Sproul believed and I lean that way as well

Great "debate"! I hold to the view of Amillennialism.

@EmeraldPixelGamingEPG

Жыл бұрын

I do as well. There are things like the Tribulation which seem essentially ultimately pointless, and things can turn out in a far calmer way.

@kevincourtney7312

Жыл бұрын

@@EmeraldPixelGamingEPG There does appear to be a war on the horizon and Israel looks to be the central flash point. How do you see that?

@mikefrady7965

11 ай бұрын

I believe in the WORD of God The word for millennium is kiliain the Greek This word is not found in the Old Testament Many of the millennialist use old testament scripture and there’s never one place that you can see 1000 year reign in the Old Testament This points to a misinterpretation of the scripture And they misinterpreted the Greek word for 1000 because this word as you study it is the plural form without getting into my complete study, which would take too long But that’s where it all begins is studying that word right there and you’ll understand that it means a long period of years not exactly 1000 nor is it exactly 2000 but as we see it should be closer to 2000 than 1000 because it’s referring to reigning with Christ And we know that we are considered kings and priest right now, and we were seated at the right hand with Christ in heavenly places. All these have to do with spiritual authority that we have right now over the devil and it’s mentioned that all power and authority was given to Christ Jesus, so we need to take, under consideration, that these doctrines of a millennial rule after the resurrection completely against the word of God God wipes away all the tears when we are resurrected God defeats death when we are resurrected all his enemies are forever going after the resurrection And the resurrection is on the last day, John chapter 6, verse 39, 40, 44, and 54 PERIOD You can have the nations defeated at the end of time, and then the resurrection, and then another battle against the same enemy. That is the stupidest idea in the world. So, if you were not ruling in raining with Christ right now, overcoming by the blood of the lamb, the word of our testimony, and not loving our life even under death, and you’re missing the gospel of Jesus Christ And you’ll never get another chance to do it, so I would start looking at the Scriptures a lot closer and understand that Christ said in this world we have tribulations will be of good cheer. He has overcome the world and we can too, if we are in Christ.

@SquidCena

8 ай бұрын

@@mikefrady7965 How can Greek, mis-translate 1000? Pretty sure that is in the Bible.

@user-vd8gw6is8b

8 ай бұрын

Sampson killed a thousand men with the jawbone of a donkey he did not count to one thousand and stop the number one thousand simply emphasizes he killed a whole lot of men

What puts your perspective in-line is Ezekiel 37:1-14.

Love to see you preach at my church. Turning Point inSpokane, Wa needs His word

@stephenkeener9565

2 жыл бұрын

Hope your pastor doesn't see your comment...

@bh613

2 жыл бұрын

Always about Christ and His glory. Humbleness in Christ Jesus.

@TheJpep2424

Жыл бұрын

@@stephenkeener9565 He needs to see it

@brycekennedy5935

Жыл бұрын

No Way. I live in Spokane, WA too

@bh613

Жыл бұрын

@@brycekennedy5935 Bobby Moore has a good church in Spokane. Tell Bobby his bro in keizer sent you.

The kingdom of God resides with the king. Therefore we are waiting for the kingdom to return with the king. We are spiritually adopted the kingdom through the Holy Spirit and the blood of Christ, we have not yet experience the physical part of the kingdom of God until we die and we receive our redeemed bodies on that last day. We are just mere pilgrims on this Earth, we are not residing in Kingdom as long as we are on this Earth. Until the king returns with the kingdom on that last day.

@LaB567

2 ай бұрын

Exactly! The church is being led astray big time by this nonsense about alternate timelines!

I love Jeff but this wasn't a synopsis of the three views, this was a sermon intro for postmill lol

Spiritual awakening with the birth, ministry, death, and resurrection followed by tangible change in the material world. I dig it. I’d love to hear more of this interview and topic because the challenge with postmillennialism is that it has been roughly 2000 yrs since these events so..are we beyond the 1000 years described as the millennium. Where are we now?

@oracleoftroy

10 ай бұрын

Day 2, per 2 Peter 3.

@ayobithedark2772

5 ай бұрын

Generally post-mills believe the millennium refers to a golden age before Christ's coming

Yeah, that didn’t clarify anything.

I'm more confused now.

As good an explanation as you can give without using the Scripture. Definitely not going to settle any debates.

Here in Australia, Queensland police have just described "Australia’s first Christian terrorist attack". The terrorists were three brothers, Gareth, Nathaniel and Stacey Train. All three were killed in a shootout with police after they shot 4 people, killing 3. The police went on to say, “Our assessment has concluded that Nathaniel, Gareth and Stacey Train acted as an autonomous cell and executed a religiously motivated terrorist attack. The Train family members prescribed to what we would call a broad Christian fundamentalist belief system known as premillennialism." However they did have some connection to the US evidently. The FBI have arrested a man in Arizona who Queensland police described as a "person of interest" in relation to the shootings. So, for me, I'll say a big "no thank-you" to premillennialism, if that is what it does to people.

Tell me, what early church father taught amillennialism?

@djessie6962

Жыл бұрын

Literally all of them

It feels that often times y'all take the first 6-7 minutes to just talk to hear yourself talk and pretend you're more intellectual, and then in the final 5 you actually get to the point... Makes listening to these so frustrating.

I don’t believe that the thousand years in the pit and the thousand years reign with Christ are parallel time periods.

Well, this is not clear and rambles a lot. The oratory reminds me of the stereotype Sunday preacher who just rambles on topic toward a general point. This video is a philosophical wander more than definitional discussion. Ugh! The only thing I really got from this is that Jeff Durbin certainly believes Revelation is the most symbolic book in the Bible.

@michaellohre1470

Жыл бұрын

Me too

Without sounding like a ‘know it all’, over the years I’ve noticed that the amillineum view has to twist some important verses into pretzels to make them fit into this view. Who decides what is symbolic or literal? Who do you believe re: the 70 AD temple destruction when many many scholars in biblical archeology date Revelation in the early 90’s AD? Just saying “I believe Revelation was written before 70 AD” isn’t really a great argument. Are you an archeological experts? Many amillennials just do not have any solid come backs from these issues and saying, “that’s what I believe”just doesn’t cut it.

What about the view of the Eastern Orthodox Church? Would love to see the in the mix. Thank you.

@WilliamDeanIII

2 жыл бұрын

I think they hold to an Amill position.

@biblehistoryscience3530

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, they're Amill.

@zealandsword9557

Жыл бұрын

@@biblehistoryscience3530 A few early Church Fathers were Pre as well.

@hippios

Жыл бұрын

Yes we are Amil

Pre mill belief is not that Christ isnt currently on the throne in power, cause he is... our point is that this earth will be conpletely physically ruled by Christ upon hia return. When arguing against premillennialism alot make it seem like we are belittle Christ and his power and position

@oracleoftroy

10 ай бұрын

A lot of premil do seem to think Jesus doesn't have all authority on earth right now and rather, Satan is the God of this earth. "Jesus is not on the throne of David" that being the symbol of his kingship something is something I see a lot from the premil side. I read several comments saying as much before reaching this comment saying those are all incorrect on premil. Part of the problem is that there are 20 different versions of premil for every 10 premill believers, and they never seem to have their story straight. Its likewise true that there are several versions of postmil, but at least in my experience, people can state those and point out the differences without having to pretend like none disagrees with their private interpretation.

Pre- they don’t use air quotes when referring to 1000 years. That was my takeaway anyway 😏

I just read 1 Corinthians 15. Where does it say Jesus is currently on the Davidic Thrown?

GK Beale book

I didn't hear one thing about Jesus Physical bodily return to earth. The angel at his ascension said "This same Jesus will return in the same way he ascended" He literally ascended in his resurrected Body. Corinthians says our resurrected bodies will be like his, Thessalonians says when he returns (which Paul specifically says has NOT happened yet) "The dead in Christ will rise 1st then those who are left alive will be caught up in the air to be with the Lord forever." Put Thessalonians together with Corinthians (I forget exact verses) and other stuff in Isaiah (The lion will Lay dawn with the Lamb etc.) also since when is 2000 years of war and persecution fit the description of the Millennial Kingdom where Christ rules physically on earth. There are too many things that just don't fit. More than 2000 years does not = 1000 years and I haven't seen ANYPLACE anywhere on earth where the child plays safely with a cobra or where Gods Kingdom on earth is presently resulting in nothing and no one causing harm" (and yes that is a description of the Millennial Kingdom). There are more Mosques in France now than Churches and many of the Churches are empty. Yes revelations is symbolic BUT it has interpretations within it. It tells you in some places WHAT the symbolic things mean. (10 horns are 10 kings etc.>). What about Jesus at his Trial in Mark saying "You will see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven..." an obvious reference to his future Physical return to earth. I mean there is something really missing from your interpretation! I don't think you are taking ALL the scriptures into account.

Can I ask, what does Paul Washer's belief in End Times, is he Premil or Amil?

@kelligarcia312

Жыл бұрын

I wondered the same lol 😆 the man is as sound as it gets. I’ve tried to look and he doesn’t seem to say and from what he did say it seems that he is not sure. I know John mcarthur is very against amillenialism

@ROckgrunge2987

Жыл бұрын

@@kelligarcia312 oh!! I didn't know that he hates Amillennialism belief

@kelligarcia312

Жыл бұрын

@@ROckgrunge2987 but interestingly enough Voddie Bauchman is an amillenialist. So I can honestly say I do not know what to think at this point, and that is torturous lol both have good arguments and I just don’t know what to believe. For years I always believed in the transfer of Israel to the church to some degree, without being taught on the subject until a heard a pastor preach that was wrong then I accepted I was wrong, then years later discovered that there are some believers who believe that to be true. But when I read the book of revelations about the 1,000 year reign I have a hard time understanding how that would be applied happening now. So I just don’t know

@ROckgrunge2987

Жыл бұрын

@@kelligarcia312 the 1000 year reign according to the Amil and Postmils it is not literally, to the Postmil it is happening right now because of His ascension

@kelligarcia312

Жыл бұрын

@@ROckgrunge2987 what is the main difference between amil and post mil? I don’t know but I’m definitely not a dispensationalist. I don’t see that in scripture

Sorry but this left me more confused on the differences between the 3 views. What I was looking for was a clear 1) Amil, 2) Premil, and 3) Postmil explanation.

@biblehistoryscience3530

Жыл бұрын

texmom, Amillennialism means “no millennium” because they reject the literal interpretation of prophecies that say Jesus will return and rule earth for 1,000 years. But they do believe in an allegorical millennium which they say started before the Middle Ages, and which popes claim to be ruling, and which will continue until Judgment day. By the way, some Protestant churches adopted this system but replaced the pope with their own leaders.

@biblehistoryscience3530

Жыл бұрын

texmom, Premillennialism says Jesus will return before the Millennium to remove evil, establish his kingdom in Jerusalem and rule earth for 1,000 years. This is based on a literal interpretation of scripture.

@biblehistoryscience3530

Жыл бұрын

texmom, Postmillennialism says Jesus won't return until after a Millennium during which the church rules the world and cleans it up for Jesus. This grew out of early Protestant optimism, but I believe it's less popular due to all the wars and other catastrophes in the past few hundred years.

@sandina2cents779

Жыл бұрын

@@biblehistoryscience3530 thank you for explaining the 3 views clearly!!! Was hoping to get that from this video but couldn’t find it.

@biblehistoryscience3530

Жыл бұрын

@@sandina2cents779, you're welcome.

Plagiarism??

Mt.24:29-31 is provided us by Christ of the timeline of events you are commenting on. When Christ returns it is the Rapture, not before, not after. When Christ returns it is Judgment Day. 2Tim.4:1 and 2Thes.1:7-10 concur. In fact, from the time the world is flooded with false gospels, as it is in our day, it's all laid out for us in order... the Christian churches disintegrate being Satan owns them, 2Thes.2:1-12 concurs. The true believers vacate the churches being they've gone apostate because Satan dwells in them. Rev.18 concurs. This brings about the Tribulation affecting the true believers, the Tribulation ends with Christs return. And we've been told in advance, Mt.24:25... no mystery for the true believers, only the false believers contend with this chapter and change it to suit their unbelieving point of view. Dan.7:25 concurs. Wonderful that there is no thousand year reign of Christ in Person at any time being with His return befalls Judgment Day.

Clear and concise to a biblical scholar maybe. The full episode may be but that’s not the video linked.

But the church is not appointed unto the wrath of God. We can’t be in the Great Tribulation right now because that’s the holy wrath of God pouring down in bowls and cups and trumpets!

@yesnomaybeso5755

2 жыл бұрын

God can pour out His wrath on the ungodly while keep safe His elect. Look at what happened in Exodus when God judged Egypt. Look at the story of Noah when God judged the earth.

@katiefaith5381

2 жыл бұрын

Wrath is "orge" in Greek meaning Vengeance punishment anger We saints are not appointed to this BUT tribulation is NOT wrath "Thlipsis" in Greek Suffering pain persecution We are promised tribulation If wrath and tribulation were the same HE would have used the same words Be prepared to suffer

@biblehistoryscience3530

2 жыл бұрын

sophalophofbread, Paul described the rapture escape in 1 Thess 4-5 then said the Day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night, and those who walk in darkness will not escape it, but we should repent because we are not appointed to wrath. So, Paul did teach that the church will escape before the Great Tribulation, which mirrored what Jesus said in Matt 24-25, where he likened the rapture to several things including going into a marriage supper while others are left behind. And Jesus said the lesson was to watch because you do not know the day nor hour when he comes. And Luke 21 expounds on this where Jesus said to repent from sin, to watch and pray always to be accounted worthy to escape all the things coming to pass and stand before him.

@tonymuse

Жыл бұрын

They are talking about the timing of Christ's return in regards to the timing of the 1,000 years, not so much the tribulation. That adds different favors to the mix.

@TechCody113

Жыл бұрын

@@biblehistoryscience3530that’s end of the age, not secret rapture, just the 2nc coming that’s it, one big sweep at the end

Just read Rev. It doesn't need much interpretation now. Not a symbolic book but a book full of symbolism.

Compelling...

The passages Jeff provided don't prove anything in the post mill idea of eschatology. I'd love to debate this as I am happily and unashamedly amillennial. I think the biggest question is how would one define "the nations". Very important discussion.

Just calling Rv highly symbolic dn mean you can take obvious literal nouns symbolically. If you read it as is, you'll be pre mil.

Revelation was written 95 AD (a year before the last year of Dometian's reign) according to St. Irenaeus and corroborated by Eusebius.

@tonymuse

Жыл бұрын

We don't have solid proof about when Revelation was written, only speculation.

@st.christopher4854

Жыл бұрын

@@tonymuse St. Irenaeus was not lying.

@st.christopher4854

Жыл бұрын

Not only St. Irenaeus, but also Eusebius and St. Victorinus state that "Revelation" was written in the reign of Dometian.

@tonymuse

Жыл бұрын

@@st.christopher4854 I think that the only people who take a strong stance on this books date or origin are those who either belong in the Futurist or Preterist camps. Either way, it does change the way that I view or interpret this little book.

@st.christopher4854

Жыл бұрын

@@tonymuse well, the early church fathers were not preterist's. Interestingly, I just read "Treatise on Christ and the Antichrist" by St. Hippolytus of Rome (ca. 230 AD). Here is a quote. "For he sees, when in the isle Patmos, a revelation of awful mysteries, which he recounts freely, and makes known to others. Tell me, blessed John, apostle and disciple of the Lord, what didst thou see and hear concerning Babylon?" Now he does not say here anything about the timing being during the reign of Dometian but it is admitted that John was banished there until Domitian was gone, which allowed John to leave Patmos and return to Ephesus. St. Victorinus does say John saw the vision at Patmos and that being during Dometian's reign. There is too much witness from the early church.

The argument I hear in favor of Post-mil always seems to be that it's more pragmatic and applicable; does that indicate that there is not a good case to be made for the accuracy of the doctrine? I never hear anyone outline how we can tell that God teaches post-mil in Scripture. I walk by faith, not by sight; I really have no interest in assessing the pragmatics of doctrines.

@AkanamesMalestrom

2 жыл бұрын

Mike Winger did a pretty good job here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qqGrktePfNjUp7g.html He lays out how the preterist (post-mill) believer shows support in scripture.

@jlettizard6465

2 жыл бұрын

Jeff does a multi-part series on eschatology that is really helpful in understanding the post-mil perspective with tons of scripture reference.

@unkown312

Жыл бұрын

@@jlettizard6465 he uses nothing but scripture. Praise God.

You’re saying brothers, I’m interjecting, brothers and sisters, or, the brethren. Thanks, interested in brushing up on these terms, the focus, mainly has been pre, mid, post trib. But, these particular, varied viewpoints, schools of thought are in regards to the millennial reign, have to remember where I stood firmly, previously. Always felt settled, in the past, and that it was throughout that time, to the present, a non issue. However, further research, investigation, has changed many doctrinal points of emphasis in recent years…so, all bets are off, for me, so to speak. All ears on refreshing ourselves, once again. Thanks. As good bereans, per scripture, ‘searching the scriptures DAILY, ‘to see…determine….conclude, if these things, be so’, or true. Truth seekers, that’s what He’s after. ✅😀

@junkerjorg6310

2 жыл бұрын

I have come to a similar conclusion. Instead of division, Im now sitting on the fence, fully aware that the sadducees and pharisees were having the same argument about a physical Kingdom and then they missed the most important event in human history.

To sum it up: Premil: change comes after the second coming of Christ Postmil: change comes throughout this age and then Christ will come Amil: change comes spiritually now and will be consummated at the second coming of Christ To be clear, if you are postmil you have to believe that the world will get better over time, not worse. This is one of the fundamental "problems" with postmil because Scripture teaches the exact opposite. THings don't get better, they get worse UNTIL Christ returns. This was an excellent summary though of the positions

@TechCody113

Жыл бұрын

Yeeep, there is no rapture, just end of the age, one big sweep at the end, which is 2nc coming

Got to the end of this video. "Huh??" is my reaction. I think you missed the mark promised in the description by a long shot.

@9:55 Durbin is wrong, Jesus is not seated on the throne of David. But that's just another point he has to force on the text for his postmil error to even begin to work

He doesn't even answer the question asked by the guy. He rambles and it's rather hard to follow,

Jeff you appear to be getting closer to the premill view.

Too much material too fast. This is a good video for the student with some background in this already.

I am very familiar with all these views. I am historic Pre-Mill (post trib rapture, nondispensational). I have a few questions to post/a-mill folk that have never been answered. I believe most say that Rome was the 7 head/10 horned beast and the whore is Jerusalem. Revelation 17:16 says that the beast hates the whore and makes her desolate. No problem there, as this occurred in 70ad. However, how did Jerusalem/Judea make Rome and other nations wealthy? How did Jerusalem/Judea deceive all nation by her sorceries? My second question is that in Revelation 19 it says the beast is cast into the lake of fire with the false prophet. When did this occur exactly? Rome wasn't sacked for over 300 years after 70ad. So did the millennium begin later? Is there an overlap where the beast exist after the millennium began? If we look at the time that Rome is sacked, this is around the time Rome became the centralized church. I have a major problem with that being a good thing. They caused more problems than good. It was an apostate church from the start!

Can someone please clearly but briefly explain pre, a, and post millennial? Please explain it in 3 short paragraphs, or less than 2 minutes verbally speaking. This video didn't make things clear to me.

@AkanamesMalestrom

2 жыл бұрын

While not a short video, or bite size explanation; Mike Winger did a pretty good job here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qqGrktePfNjUp7g.html He lays out most common eschatology's, and how they shows support, or the lack of support, in scripture.

@gokupepper

2 жыл бұрын

@@AkanamesMalestrom thank you for the info!

@CDAinVA

Жыл бұрын

Premillennialism is that there will be a literal 1000 year reign with Jesus on earth after his second coming… . Postmillennials believe that the great commission - make disciples of all nations - is actually going to be fulfilled; that the nations will overwhelmingly turn to Jesus before He returns… a-millennialism is based on the prefix( A) but it really means “ now” ! The 1000 years started during the 1st century ( now )and is a long period of time consummating with Jesus’ return!

This video does NOT do what the title promises.

As a post-mill, I think the other two views are just wrong. Well, whoda thought that? The Revelation is nothing more than an extremely expanded and metaphorically expressed version of MT 24.

"Comfort each other with this hope...." --- that nothing will ever happen because we're amillenialists. You have serious hermeneutical issues with Daniel - some you will take for literal and others "symbolic" where it doesn't fit the Roman Catholic-invented idea of amillenialism.

@justanotherbaptistjew5659

2 жыл бұрын

Amillenialmism existed before that antichrist in Rome set himself up as the “head of the whole church.”

Which are y'all?

Glad to see Matt Walsh with Jeff Durbin!

What?

Instead of naming it 3 views, you could say 'Jeff's strong beliefs about so and so...' Sorry I feel like I've wasted 12 mins plus a few seconds typing this comment :(

@Jammaster1972

2 жыл бұрын

He's misleading many people. Tickling the ears.

Amill camp: don't take God's word literally.....

Part 1/2 I don't know who Jeff Durbin is or what his qualifications are, but what he is correct about is that this isn't a salvation issue. You can still believe in Jesus's shed blood for the payment of your sins and be saved and still have an incorrect Eschatological view. However, the 2nd Coming and the events surrounding the event make up about 1/3 of Scripture. It's the most widely covered topic by far in Scripture. There are at least 5x more prophecies connected to the 2nd coming as there are about the first. I would also suspect that if you have an incorrect view of a topic that covers 1/3 of Scripture, you might also be in error with some of the remaining 2/3's as well. Why is this a hotly debated topic? Simple, the enemy wants to confuse Christians, to be divided, and ignorant. One of the greatest pieces of evidence we have of Jesus's divinity is that He fulfilled over 100 messianic prophecies in His lifetime. Yet, so many who had been searching the Scriptures waiting for the Messiah to come missed it. They had an image of the Messiah Jesus didn't fulfill in their eyes. If you're not looking for Scripture to be fulfilled before your eyes because of your Eschatological view then you'll never see it, and you'll simply assume Christians who are looking are making something up. One of the greatest lies I have heard continually repeated for the last 3 decades is that Dispensational Premillennialism ideas are new ideas. From Got Questions www.gotquestions.org/dispensational-premillennialism.html "Premillennialism as a system is primarily based on a literal method of biblical interpretation. The main premise of premillennialism is that Jesus will literally return to the earth before (pre) the millennium begins and that He himself will inaugurate and rule over it. Premillennialists can be divided into two groups with respect to their central approach to the prophetic Scriptures, historic premillennialists and dispensational premillennialists. The basic difference between the two is the emphasis that each gives to the nation of Israel during the millennium, the period of a thousand years during which Christ will reign on earth. Historic premillennialists believe... the nation of Israel will not have a special role or function that is distinct from the Church. In contrast to historic premillennialism, dispensational premillennialism has gained popularity among modern evangelicals. Dispensational premillennialists hold that the second coming of Christ, and subsequent establishment of the millennial kingdom, is to be preceded by a seven-year-long period known as the “Tribulation,” the earthly activity of the Antichrist as well as the outpouring of God’s wrath on mankind. Dispensational premillennialists hold that the nation of Israel will be saved and restored to a place of preeminence in the millennium. Thus, Israel will have a special function of service in the millennium that is different from that of the Church. Another difference is that most dispensational premillennialists hold that the millennium is for a literal 1,000 years, while some historic premillennialists assert that the 1,000 years is figurative for a long period of time." Essentially: Historic premillennialism sees the Church replacing Israel. Dispensational premillennialism sees Israel as a key aspect prior to the 2nd Coming. So how many of these understandings are true historically? Is the idea of a 7 year "tribulation" and a literal person who is the Antichrist and a literal 1000-year millennium a "new idea"? Imagine If I told you that this is the oldest historical view of the Church, not the newest, and that what we have been told is the oldest view ie Amillennialism and Postmillennialism are actually some of the first widely accepted heresies on this topic which really began to become popular around 380AD. www.gotquestions.org/amillennialism.html The amillennial view, along with premillennialism, is one of the oldest in church history, being held since the first century. In the 5th century, Augustine settled on the amillennial view as his understanding of eschatology. The following excerpts are taken from Ken Johnson's Book (Th.D) The End Times by the Ancient Church Fathers. “Therefore, children, in six days, or in six thousand years, all the prophecies will be fulfilled. Then it says, ‘He rested on the seventh day.’ This signifies at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus, He will destroy the Antichrist, judge the ungodly, and change the sun, moon, and stars. Then He will truly rest during the Millennial reign, which is the seventh day.” Epistle of Barnabas 15:7-9 (First Century 1AD-100AD) Johnson, Ken. The End-Times by the Ancient Church Fathers (p. 11). Commodianus, AD 240 “We will be immortal when the six thousand years are completed.” Against the Gods of the Heathens 35 “Resurrection of the body will be when six thousand years are completed, and after the one thousand years [millennial reign], the world will come to an end.” Against the Gods of the Heathens 80 Johnson, Ken. The End-Times by the Ancient Church Fathers (p. 12). Victorinus, AD 240 “Satan will be bound until the thousand years are finished; that is, after the sixth day.” Commentary on Revelation 20.1-3 Johnson, Ken. The End-Times by the Ancient Church Fathers (p. 12). When we take a look at Justin Martyr and Irenaeus we see just how close they were to the Apostle John. Apostle John taught Polycarp who taught both Justin Martyr and Irenaeus (who even saw the Apostle John on occasion). “The Man of Sin, spoken of by Daniel, will rule two [three] times and a half, before the Second Advent.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue 32 “There will be a literal one-thousand-year reign of Christ.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue 81 “The man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against believers.” Justin Martyr, Dialogue 110 (Born 100AD-Martyred 165AD) Johnson, Ken. The End-Times by the Ancient Church Fathers (p. 14). Irenaeus who wrote about 170 AD who was a disciple of Polycarp (who was taught by John) wrote a 5 volume work called "against heresies" “There is a resurrection of the Just that takes place after the destruction of the Antichrist and all nations under his rule. Many believers will make it through the Tribulation and replenish the earth. In the Resurrection we will have fellowship and communion with the holy angels, and union with spiritual beings. The new heavens and earth are first created and then the new Jerusalem descends. These are all literal things, and Christians who allegorize them are immature Christians.” Against Heresies 5.35 Johnson, Ken. The End-Times by the Ancient Church Fathers (p. 15). So in a basic way, these references give us the "season" of when to look for the 2nd Coming 4000 years between Adam and Eve to Jesus and 2000 years from Jesus to now. It also tells us that each of them believed in a literal 1000 year reign of Jesus AFTER His 2nd Coming. The Doctrine of the Rapture “When in the end that church will suddenly be caught up from this, then it is said, ‘There will be tribulation such as not been since the beginning, nor will be.’” Against Heresies 5.29 Johnson, Ken. The End-Times by the Ancient Church Fathers (p. 15). Ephraim 373 AD “…because all saints and the elect of the LORD are gathered together before the Tribulation which is about to commence be taken to the LORD…” On the Last Times 2-Ephraim the Syrian 373 AD “In 2 Thessalonians, the ‘falling away’ is an apostasy and there will be a literal rebuilt temple. In Matthew [chapter 24], the ‘abomination spoken by Daniel’ is the Antichrist sitting in the temple as if he were Christ. The abomination will start in the middle of Daniel's 70th week and last for a literal three years and six months. The little horn [11th] is the Antichrist.” Against Heresies 5.25 Johnson, Ken. The End-Times by the Ancient Church Fathers (p. 16). Now does this mean that these writings are correct? No. However, when we look at how far removed these disciples were from the Apostles and the number of writings we have it seems like these were widely taught doctrines prior to the Roman Empire making Christianity the religion of the land and merging it with paganism in 380AD. Comparing these to Scripture from a certain perspective we can see many similar views. (continued in Part 2).

Only one Gospel: The Gospel of Reconciliation. Jesus Christ came into THEIR kingdom to reconcile fallen angels unto Himself. We are the fallen angels kept in DNA chains of darkness. If you do not confess being a fallen angel in Lucifer's kingdom, then you are an unbeliever. Unbeliever = those that claim to be made in the image of God.

The early Church writings say: Lactantius After these things, the lower regions will be opened and the dead will rise again. The same King and God will pass judgment on the dead. . . . However, not all men will be judged by God at that time. Rather, only those who have practiced the religion of God. Sentence cannot be passed to acquit those who have not known God. They are already judged and condemned. For the Holy Scriptures testify that the wicked will not rise to condemnation [Ps. 1:5]. Therefore, only those who have known God will be judged. And their deeds, that is, their evil works, will be compared and weighed against their good ones. . . . But when He will have judged the righteous, He will also test them with fire. Those persons whose sins will exceed [their good works] either in weight or in number will be scorched by the fire and burned. However, those who are filled with complete justice and maturity will not feel this fire. For they have something of God in them that repels and rejects the violence of the flame. Lactantius (c. 304-313, W), 7.216, 217. I do not know of any early church Church Fathers who presented an A-millennium view?

Not very well explained.

Amillinialism is the only logical camp if you look at all the verses in context. There is no way we have a battle and then a second battle. Once Christ comes..that is it.

@TechCody113

Жыл бұрын

Yeeep, no secret rapture ether, just one big sweep in the end

The kingdom of heaven or the kingdom of earth.

@RightResponseMinistries

2 жыл бұрын

Both. “Thy will be done, Thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven.”

@bella0167

6 ай бұрын

​@@RightResponseMinistries IDIOT

Part 2/2 Irenaeus says “In 2 Thessalonians, the ‘falling away’ is an apostasy and there will be a literal rebuilt temple. In Matthew [chapter 24], the ‘abomination spoken by Daniel’ is the Antichrist sitting in the temple as if he were Christ. The abomination will start in the middle of Daniel's 70th week and last for a literal three years and six months. The little horn [11th] is the Antichrist.” Against Heresies 5.25 This tells us that in 170 AD Irenaeus who was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the Apostle John writes in his 5 volume "against heresies" that there will be a literal physical temple in which the Antichrist will sit and declare himself as God and for 3 years and 6 months and calls this the "tribulation". "When in the end that church will suddenly be caught up from this, then it is said, ‘There will be tribulation such as not been since the beginning, nor will be.’” Against Heresies 5.29 Now Jesus in Matthew 24 calls it the "great tribulation" and says in verses 29-30 that immediately after those days which Irenaeus says lasts 3.5 years the Son of Man will come in great glory. Jesus in John 5:43 says 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. Notice what Hippolytus wrote (born 170-died 235AD) about the Antichrist Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion[xxvii], on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb; so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Savior gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one in like manner. The Savior appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Savior raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand. Johnson, Ken. The End-Times by the Ancient Church Fathers (p. 30). Hippolytus continues: ...Christ is a lion, and Antichrist is a lion. Christ is King of things celestial and things terrestrial, and Antichrist will be king upon earth. The Savior was manifested as a lamb; and he, too, will appear as a lamb, while he is a wolf within. The Savior was circumcised, and he in like manner will appear in circumcision. The Savior sent the apostles unto all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. Christ gathered together the dispersed sheep, and he in like manner will gather together the dispersed people of the Hebrews. Christ gave to those who believed on Him the honorable and life-giving cross, and he in like manner will give his own sign. Christ appeared in the form of man, and he in like manner will come forth in the form of man. Christ arose from among the Hebrews, and he will spring from among the Jews. Christ displayed His flesh like a temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he too will raise up again the temple of stone in Jerusalem. And these deceits fabricated by him will become quite intelligible to those who listen to us attentively, from what shall be set forth next in order...He intimated also of old in this Daniel. For he says, “I shall make a covenant of one week, and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and libation will be removed.” Daniel 9:27 For by “one week” he indicates the showing forth of the seven years which shall be in the last times. And the half of the week the two prophets, along with John, will take for the purpose of proclaiming to all the world the advent of Antichrist, that is to say, for a “thousand two hundred and sixty days clothed in sackcloth;” Revelation 11:3 Johnson, Ken. The End-Times by the Ancient Church Fathers (p. 79). Unknown. Kindle Edition. The term "Antichrist" is a Greek word. The prefix "Anti" means instead of, in opposition to, in place of. Christ (Greek) means "anointed one" and Messiah (Hebrew) means "anointed one". Antichrist is the same as false Messiah. Rev 6:1-2 shows an imposter, a counterfeit to Jesus in Rev 19:11-16. The rider in Rev 6 rides a white horse so does Jesus in Rev 19. The rider in Rev 6 has a bow, Jesus has a sharp sword. The Rev 6 rider has a crown, Jesus has many crowns. The rider is sent out to conquer not with war (since his bow has no arrow) but with diplomacy. Jesus returns to rule the nations. Israel today- Israeli Rabbi Says He’s Already Holding Meetings With Messiah A snapshot of Israel’s spiritual hunger as biggest rabbis are afraid to leave the country lest they miss Messiah’s coming. Sept 29, 2022 www.israeltoday.co.il/read/israeli-rabbi-says-hes-already-holding-meetings-with-messiah/ In this next article, this Rabbi sees 2 appearing by 1 "Messiah". first, is the revealing, then the "Messiah" will go into the desert and then re-emerge and when he does will bring the messianic kingdom. www.israel365news.com/339505/israeli-rabbi-reveals-date-of-messiahs-arrival-according-to-kabbalah/ the Messiah will reveal himself and then disappear” ...The rabbi then sources the Talmud revealing that in the end of the Jubilee year, the Messiah will re-emerge again on Yom Kippur...“On Yom Kippur, Moses brought the Torah down from Sinai. In the desert, we received the Torah and in the desert, we will receive the Messiah. “Between Yom Kippur 2022-2023, the Messiah will make his second appearance and we will see the final redemption.” Regardless of the dates, the message is still clear, the Jewish rabbis believe we are in the time of the "Messiah". As Jesus said it's not Him they will accept but another. The problem in my opinion is that we live in the most biblically illiterate times I have witnessed in my 30 years as a believer in Jesus. To know whether or not this view is correct we have to look at the world we live in. If the Early church fathers taught that there are 6000 years of human history and Premill Christians believe we are in the lifetime since the Jews returned to the Promised Land in 1948 after 1800+ years. And that there will be a literal 7-year period, a literal false Messiah aka the Antichrist received by the Jews as the true Messiah, and that he will rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem which we see plans for here: www.israelunwired.com/the-third-temple-is-coming-and-now-you-can-watch-what-its-going-to-look-like/ Maybe we should rethink what we think is the true understanding of Eschatology. I am currently doing a series called "Why Study Eschatology?" I do my best to follow Scripture and break it down into bite-sized topics. I am not here to argue, I am simply trying to point out that there are things that a number of early Church fathers taught, that you might find similar to my series. You may not believe this but I bought the book here yesterday (April 25, 2023) before that I had only heard of a few of these quotes about the Rapture not the 6000 years or the Antichrist being Jewish (as many Premill Christians are looking at Obama, or Macron, or Claus Schwab) but if you watch my series I talk extensively about the coming Antichrist mimicking Jesus as the false Messiah. kzread.info/dash/bejne/lq6aldCpedHNn6g.html One other point about the reign of Jesus is Zechariah 14 where it says Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your [a]spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses [b]rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,...9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be- “The Lord is one,” And His name one. Verse 16-17 16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Notice it says "The LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be..." Yes Jesus reigns in Heaven as He always has and has always been Sovereign over all things. However, He freely gave His dominion over the earth to us in Genesis 1:28. We in turn gave it to Satan, which is why he could tempt Jesus will all the kingdoms of the earth if Jesus would bow down to him and why he's called the god of this age (2 Cor 4:3-4) The "age" is the age of the dominion of mankind over the earth. When Jesus returns the age ends, He then reigns over the earth. I hope this is a blessing. Take care.

This was liken to a Kamala Harris word salad. 😂

1000 years doesn’t means 1000 years. It means indefinitely! 144000 doesn’t means only 144000 people will be in heaven either. It means out of many people that will be in heaven, not many have walk in the path of the narrow path, following Him into discipleship while here on earth.

The nation of Isreal ... they did not receive John the Baptist nor did they receive the Messiah ... they sent him off to be crucified. The kingdom promises to Israel were postponed but they will be grafted in again. And, the nations are not going to be won over before the coming of the Lord. It will be as "the days of Noah."

This brother gives an overview of the three positions and variations thereof without first explaining what the three positions entail. He may as well have been talking about making pasta. In fact, he never explains what the three positions are. He may as well been speaking Greek because it was all Greek to me. Maranatha

When Jesus says, the kingdom of God is at hand, He means the ACCESS to the Kingdom of God is at Hand; Jesus dying on the cross and making a way for sinners to be reconciled to God.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. How does post-mil, pre-mil and a-mil understand this scripture

Most of the Ante-Nicene early church fathers held to Premillennialism. Read their works.

I'm thinking about how the people of Israel had so many views of the Christ's initial arrival. Yet he was only revealed to those that pleased God. This is hopeful because it's possible for all of these views to be thwarted by the wisdom of God and only revealed to babes as God always delights to do.

Post millennium, but not on earth as those without understanding teach, but in heaven. "Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house (in heaven) are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I WILL COME AGAIN, and receive you unto myself; *that where I am* there (in heaven) you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know." Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: *no man* comes unto the Father (who art in heaven), *but* by me." {John 14:1-6} To the end [objective] he may establish your hearts unblameable in holiness *before* God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ *with all his saints* {1 Thessalonians 3:13} "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you IN MY FATHER'S KINGDOM." {Matthew 26:29}

I would love to be post mil. But under today’s circumstances, I struggle to believe this way.

@the1der

8 ай бұрын

My problem is that, x100! Those who are on the broad Road are many, and I do not see any distinction clearly written in the word that there will come a time or over-time that that will no longer be the case. If you want to make a claim that the kingdom is like a mustard seed which grows, that is fine, but I do not believe that necessarily has to mean that it will grow and overtake everything around it. When Christ said the world would hate you, again, I don't see that as ever becoming a voided position of a worldly heart and a worldly society in whole. The post-millennial view and the dispensation premillennial view are two that I cannot jive with. I study hard both historic and a- millennial positions and it comes down to will it be literal or will it be a spiritual or symbolic hermeneutic of text. But in both positions we see that the world is and remains to be corrupt or even worsen in it's corruption. That makes sense logically aligned with the totality of scripture, IMO of course.

I’m lost. Are you really going off the text from the Holy Bible? I’ve myself read several versions, and looked over many religions. And I’m still an atheist. What is the draw to you?

Acts 1: 9-11 debunk preterism... It also affirms matthew 24 signs are literal not symbolic...

@tonyputman3398

2 жыл бұрын

Acts 1:9-11. Please read the words written and do not add to nor remove from any words in the scriptures. Most of these signs are from the Old Testament and are not literal. Jesus was speaking about His Judgement on the Jews and particularly the city of Jerusalem that happened in the year 70AD. Matthew 23:36, 24:34. "This generation" means the audience He is speaking to, not future people.

@webwhale

2 жыл бұрын

@@tonyputman3398 what about matthew 16:28

@tonyputman3398

2 жыл бұрын

@@webwhale And your point is?

@webwhale

2 жыл бұрын

@@tonyputman3398 i do not have any idea what Jesus meant by this, He said this to Herod also in Mt: 26 so I am confused..

@tonyputman3398

2 жыл бұрын

@@webwhale Which verse in Matthew mentions Herod? Or did I misread your comment?

Another problem with the Post millennial view is that as Jeff Durbin said in this video, Christ is ruling NOW. But Revelation 11 has the two witnesses being killed and then raised to life after three and a half days. And it says their enemies will SEE them ascend into Heaven. Then you have a great earthquake in Jerusalem that kills 7000 people. Then the seventh trumpet sounds and NOW it says, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” (notice the kingdoms of the world don't become the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ UNTIL the seventh trumpet is sounded. Surely you don't think the 7th trumpet is at the very beginning of this spiritual millennial reign?") 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: “We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.” This says the time of Judgment has come for the wicked and the time of reward for the prophets and the saints. I'm sorry Jeff, all this has NOT happened even yet, let alone in the first century.

@MB777-qr2xv

5 ай бұрын

Also, Revelation says this: "The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. NO EARTHQUAKE LIKE IT HAS EVER OCCURED since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the NATIONS collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. 20 EVERY island fled away, and the mountains could not be found. 21 From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds, fell on people." None of this happened in the first century, so NO, the Great Tribulation has NOT begun. You are just making everything a metaphor to fit your pre-conceived theological position. Of course, you will attempt to make this all a metaphor. But a metaphor for what?

Puts a whole lot of weight on 1 Cor 15, but when I read it.. I think it’s a huge stretch. Not a strong argument at all

Amillennium does believe in a millennium actually 2 because it's been 2k years. If your amil or post mil I believe your placing doctrine over the word. I wish Martin Luther amd Calvin would have gone further and reformed eschatology as well. Why did Jesus teach us to pray for his kingdom to come?

@oracleoftroy

Жыл бұрын

Because it is like a rock cut not by human hands that topples the great kingdoms of the world and then grows to fill the whole world. We pray for the kingdom to come into fulfillment as it spreads across the world and grows.

@benjaminstevens3983

Жыл бұрын

@@oracleoftroy we know that the word will be spread to the four corners of the earth. But amill believe we are in the 1000 year reign right now. So tell me how is, or when will Isaiah 2:4 be fulfilled?

@beliefbite

Жыл бұрын

@@benjaminstevens3983 That will be fulfilled when Christ renews the earth at His return

@benjaminstevens3983

Жыл бұрын

@@beliefbite this will be fulfillfilled after 2 peter 3:10? Is that what you are saying? So after the elements burn away with fervent heat and a great noise, then God will create a new heaven and a new earth where there will still be some military equipment left over?

@beliefbite

Жыл бұрын

@@benjaminstevens3983 That's a good question. I don't take the beating spears into prooning hooks as literal for several reasons. 1) we don't actually use spears these days for battle. 2) the passage is just emphasizing the lack of need for implements of war. A similar example is Ezekiel 39, where the bodies are being buried for months. I've even heard people who try to say this is literal and do calculations about how many bodies it would take for this to be the case. To interpret these texts literally is just a failure to understand them. Second, the dissolving of the heavenly bodies is also most likely not literal. This is because similar language is used all throughout the Old Testament, and it is NEVER literal (psalm 97:5 for example). Additionally, the passage doesn't say the earth will dissolve; only that the heavens will. This could be a reference to stars falling from the sky. Regardless, most careful students of the passage recognize that the earth won't be destroyed and replaced with a new one. Instead, the earth will be washed and renewed. Otherwise it would contradict Romans 8

4:53 Its not just Revelation for goodness sake. Scary to me people sincerely think they know it all as this man. Good solid Christians who don't ask questions and just follow the Pastors belief as Roman Catholics.

Yeah I got absolutely nothing from this. I’m starting to believe this debate between pre-meal, post-mail and a-team are just another ridiculous way to keep our eyes off of Jesus. Alternate timelines? I have yet to see an iron-clad indisputable argument for it.

HISTORICISM IS GOD MADE...PRAETERISM/FUTURISM ARE MAN-MADE...

@tonymuse

Жыл бұрын

That would be a matter of opinion. I assume that you are SDA?

@jasonwolfe920

Жыл бұрын

@@tonymuse I'm just following the history...

@tonymuse

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonwolfe920 Well, I doubt very seriously that you will find the words historcism, preterism or futurism in the Bible. They are all man-made terms used to attempt to understand things that we probably don't have a full grasp on and yet make dogma about. Humans are pretty bad about doing that.

Word salad

What a bunch of garbled rant!! Came looking for simple definitions . Misleading heading!

@Jammaster1972

2 жыл бұрын

Deceptions of False Teachers 2 Peter 2:18For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

One will be taken one will be left that refers to the rapture of the church the body of Christ Matthew 24 I'm pre wrath pre it's obvious there is a rapture I believe in the Marriage supper of the Lamb the judgement seat of Christ after the rapture of the church and the world will experience the great tribulation it's clear the dead in Christ will rise first then we which are alive will be quickly changed into our new bodies the second coming is different than the rapture of the church and Israel and the church is not the same thing God has a plan for Israel too

@unkown312

Жыл бұрын

Have you studied that chapter? Matthew 24:34,51 [34]Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. [51]And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. If we look at verse 51, we realize that these ppl are being thrown into hell.

@beliefbite

Жыл бұрын

@@unkown312 I would argue verse 51 is not about the same thing as the "one taken, one left" passage considering it is about people being sent to hell.

@TechCody113

Жыл бұрын

That verse actually wasint talking about that lol just another misconception

…and still no answers from the Word of God.

You lost all credibility with me at the beginning of this video when you said that anyone that doesn’t understand the Old Testament should not mess with the book of Revelation because it clearly says at the beginning of Revelation 1:3 that God blesses the one who reads it.

Yet another division in the field. It’s a lot of words with no real explanation. The Millennial has hapened. Should do some research. A and Post don’t really mean anything. I don’t see this bringing anything to the table.