This is the sort of equipment that I find fun to look at on a 'No guarantee of fixing, no guarantee of staying fixed' basis. That is as a favour (free of charge) for a friend. Slowly working through every joint with a microscope, needle sharp meter probes, dental pick and Metcal iron is very therapeutic. I don't find it stressful at all. The massive buzz you get when something bursts into life is priceless.

I felt like an apprentice watching a master at work. This is what people need to learn important skills. Fantastic video. Thank you.

@marklowe7431

2 жыл бұрын

Teaching millions, one video at a time.

Great video for anyone wishing to know how to start doing their own diagnostics. I have built one of these radios a few years ago, and they are a very fun build. Whenever soldering toroids I will first use a small diamond file to moves as much lacquer as I can and then tin, holding the wire in a blob of solder for maybe 10 - 15 seconds. Then when I solder to the board I leave a little wire on the joint and use that to check continuity with another joint somewhere on the board. Then I trim once I have confrmed a good connection. I have built many radios, tuners, amplifiers etc. using this technique and have had pretty much 100% success.

@TRXLab

Ай бұрын

Thanks for feed back!

Not boring, watching you rework those inexperienced soldered joints was informative and really enjoyable, thank you.

It is fun to watch somebody else work on something for a change. Love your videos. Thanks for posting.

You really helped that person on the way - showing him what *is* wrong and turn it over to him to give him the oportunity to grow on the issue by trying to fix it himself. That *is* the way to do it. Thanks for the efforts you put into this project - even if it looked like "flogging a dead horse" right from the beginning.

Interesting to see the repair on the faulty joints.Some good advice also. Thanks Peter.

I really like your videos. So instrukting and intersting. Thank you for all the time you spend showing your work on bench.

These kits can be fun and satisfying. But you definitely need to check double check triple check and quadruple check your solder work. To bad you couldn't find all the bad points, it would have been nice to see this radio in action. Great work as always Peter, thank you for sharing.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

You are right but it is a rabbit hole and it takes too much time

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

@UCKAEdJw7Qd4GbRxUpaM7whQ You are right Keith but be honest we need to support our young fellows don't we?

Very educational. And the builder at least got the courage to hand it over to an expert and finding out what went wrong. Don't let ego get in the way of learning. I love the unforgiving nature of electronics. Mess it up and often something smokes, melts, sparks or explodes, the real fun of the hobby. There is some much to learn, working skilful and precise, clean and correct, trying to understand. Great vid Peter!

Such a great review of solder work. Thank you for spending the time on this. An overview of equipment, materials and technique at some time in the future would be a great video.

Hi Peter. Thanks for another great video. It is a real pleasure watching you work. 73s

When I was 12 I built a Heathkit Dx 100. I would do 5 steps and then go back and check it as if it were the first time that I had read each step. The Power supply took weeks and weeks and weeks to wire. I did it so slowly because I knew if i made a major mistake it would all be trash. I finally finished it and lit up the heaters first then I was happy to see the warm glow of each heater light up. When I was done I went back one more tine and checked the whole thing. Over the project I had to fix several mistakes but when I lit it up for the first time, It was an awesome thing for a nearly 13 year old to have built such a huge kit and have it work the first time that I tuned it up and went on the air I was so proud. I had great parents who both worked neither knew anything about electronics, but that brings me to my older who had learned electronics in the Navy and was a General who helped me when I needed it. Too many people won't spend the time to check their work and turn kits into trash.

Great job finding the solder faults . there is also the possibility of some of those grounded points also causing component damage as well, all of the coil soldering trouble is because of not cleaning off the enamel on the magnet wire . been there done that . love how you teach

The fact that you took the time to show several different scenarios where joints had to be resoldered and that you left the rest for the owner to fix is probably the best lesson you can offer him. Great video!

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

totally agreed

Thanks for showing this Peter. As a rule of thumb, solder. clean, inspect. Sure saves a lot of rework time. Good job on finding all those faults. 73

@bblod4896

2 жыл бұрын

The heat working in the shop?

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

absolutely agreed Buddy! Take care

Years ago, when Heathkit was popular, the instructions stated most non-functional kit repairs were the result of poor soldering according to their repair department. Thank you for the video, have a great weekend Peter.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

yes that is true...

Looks as if the soldering iron used did not get hot enough. So the builder added more and more solder to fix it. But only made it worse. I have built this kit with circuit boards from the uk amateur. At some point the mchf transceiver was suddenly available on different platforms as a complete radio made in china. Thanks for the video Peter!

Another fun to watch video - thank you. Looks like an interesting kit to build although they don't appear to be sold any longer

I have an old Radio Shack multimeter kit I put together back in the mid 70's and it has outlasted 2 digital multimeters. I think it was a Micronta Radio Shack analog multimeter. Some folks just cannot get the hang of soldering. My dad taught me as he was a radio/TV technician. I learned to solder at a very young age. One must practice their soldering skills to hone them to perfection. Then when I got out of the USMC, my dad taught me how to weld. Then we added some huge diodes to his AC welder and made a DC welder out of it. My dad, God rest his soul, worked at the FAA in Hampton, GA, in communications. W Rusty Lane K9POW in eastern Tennessee

Since this is a student studying electronics, they are likely going to have to solder a component to another or to a printed circuit board at some point. It would be important for any student to understand proper soldering technique and cleanliness habits. It starts with a good soldering iron with decent heat control, then use of good flux, and decent solder...finally with good heating technique as well as post solder inspection and cleaning regimen. I remember sitting at a bench and practicing with hundreds of DIP components as well as lacquered wire, aside from axial resistors, capacitors, etc. With the advent of chip caps, inductors, and resistors, the surgery puts a strain on the physical placement and application of flux and heat. It is frustrating to see that the student may not have been taught or coached on the basics, but we all have to start somewhere. This brings back memories from university days when the top person in our class from a theoretical perspective couldn't solder two wires together. They had no clue where to begin. 😮 Your techniques are very good, but obviously, if you corrected every mistake, how would that help the student build the necessary skills? Hopefully, they will watch, learn, and then PRACTICE. It is a learned skill.

Once again I admire your patience and attention to detail. As far as I can see, this kit came in with all the SMD IC's, resistors and small caps soldered in and what is left to the customer is to do the wiring of the transformers, and soldering in the bigger (easier) components. This is another good example of not everybody should attempt to build complex kits, at least not before doing simpler ones and get some basic skills. You are too kind to blame the person who attempted to build this kit but it is clear that it was way beyond his skill level. Great work done beautifully, and valuable tips given as usual! I just hope the owner can do a better job this time.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for feed back!

I have one of those radios that I built myself (bought the kit directly from M0NKA) and it came completely bare. I had to solder on EVERY component, which was a fun challenge. Plus it gave me a ton of practice with SMD soldering.

Job Great as always. What a great teacher

Hi Peter. Glad to see you back. Another imposible repair fixed by the master. W5DN

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

well it is not finally fixed as we have still bad solder work to fix left...

Hello Peter, Thanks for the Patience to show us the several faults on the kits soldering. It would have taken you a couple of hours to fix it all. Schon Dir zuzusehen und zu lernen! 73 de Stefan DG4RBS

I had a similar output power problem on my mcHF kit build. In addition to some build problems that were my fault (interestingly, with the same transformer and relays you dealt with), there was also a faulty factory solder joint on one of the mixer ICs. As you pointed out, diagnosing the failure was a fun part of the process.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

yeah it is a pain too many unknowns in the game...

great work already with this small component board, at last it transmitted on MW, waiting for the next video. Thanks again.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

yeah still some bad solder joints...

As soon as you said that you had a kit, built by someone else, I knew where we were going. At any rate it was entertaining as usual, Nice to see you again Peter dit dit

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

Great demonstration to new kit builders

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

glad you liked it!

😳"we all need to learn" - understatement of 2022 right there

@garagehack9271

Жыл бұрын

I love my MCHF and am glad I had help with the USA kit builder partner. QCX+ was within my capabilities. MCHF was a bit beyond.

@garagehack9271

Жыл бұрын

That being said.... I inherited a Icom HT receiver that seems to have been compromised by a wire fragment between logic board and the shield... so even the professionals can f this stuff up. I am so happy I had good teachers early in my career to understand the visual difference between a good and bad solder joint

Absolutely great learning vid

I was wandering when you was going to say well enough is enough , you are right you need to learn your soldering skills before you start you certainly cant solder enameled copper wire without tinning it first , Great video you Kept me in suspense enjoyed every minute

I always enjoy your videos. An idea will be videos on how to solder using beginner’s kits for amateur radio.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Well there are a lot solder training videos here on KZread...

Hello everyone, What I learnt when training myself as a wire-man, is you do have to scrape off all the enamel with a blade that insulates copper wire ends before soldering them together or into any circuit. I went further and scraped the wire ends of all components until you can see shiny clean bright metal before inserting components into circuit boards or tag boards, if the equipment is Hard Wired, vintage valve amps for example is / was my specialty, I am now retired. Shiny clean bright metal end wire outs on components is essential prior to reliable soldering. You can then see for sure the solder can flow well around the components being soldered as the solder flows easily properly to in fill all the gaps and make very good reliable connections. Hope this helps? Very nice, and interesting video's you put together Peter, Respects!

@TRXLab

Жыл бұрын

Thank you

Thank you for sharing. Wish we could have seen the complete repair and final operation as per spec. Cheers, N6WIP

Ein Wunder das der Braten überhaupt lief ^^ Aber sehr schön das Du trotzdem jedes Auge behandelt hast, so lernen wir vom Meister .

Hi, I have build the same MCHF version. looking at the way this one has been soldered I can imagine lots of problems. First of all, people are scared to solder with high temperatures, I have solder most of the components at 385deg C. Transformers, the leads which need to be soldered, the tiny leads, 0,1mm you can solder directly, the enamel of these wire's burn of while soldering! Thicker enamel wires you simply scrape the enamel of using a sharp knife. But once again, use enough temperature while soldering. Pars getting damaged due to over heating trying to solder it with to low temperature! It is better to solder short using high temperature. For cleaning the boards I use KONTAKT 360 Kontakt LR, there is a little brush on the aspirator and you clean and brush at the same time. Anyhow thanks for your video, my MCHF worked from the moment I switched it on and installed the firmware, no issues. About two years ago I have added some more storage it was a 0402 size chip, went FB.

Greatly enjoyed video.

Hello Peter, Well my wife joined me to watch your video today so she could get an understanding of my interest in Amateur radio. Then my daughter walked in just at the point you were advising us how not to blow are front end. Red faces were seen all around when my daughter asked what is "blowing your front end". English humor but i'm sure you will work out the joke here. Seriously what a great educational video which I am sure many will get a lot from. Thanks

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

yeah that's a good one lol!!! but additional it was family cinema, right? But you only bought one ticket ;-) ...Just kidding

@M5AXA

2 жыл бұрын

@@TRXLab Please do not tell, we will be thrown out. It was great to watch on the big screen through Peter.

Great stuff Peter! You really have contributed a whole lot by taking the time to illustrate this stuff! Thank you!

That was a great video, thank you! And I watched the whole thing! The microscope close ups were no good for my OCD, as i could see some routing mistakes, like traces entering and exiting vias, and some misalignment here and there. Absolutely agree that we should pass our soldering skills to the newer generation, i guess not everything is common sense(removing the protective layer from transformer wire before soldering, using lots of flux, controlling the amount of solder applied to a pad, washing the flux after installing post assembly components..)

@TRXLab

3 ай бұрын

fully agreed

Very good video and I watched until the end since it is very educational for those who want to start making these types of kits. In this case I also would recommend buying those very inexpensive solder practice kits and spend some time also Watching Online how to solder videos. Every component package type has a different technique to be correctly soldered and online videos Help. This video Also does make a educational training video no doubt. Do not be afraid of making long videos 😀

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

fully agreed !

@nonokodog622

2 жыл бұрын

That's good advice I'll take! I've watched NASA training vids and didn't realize how careful I needed to be to avoid contamination. Very similar to welding.

Peter, the length of the video does not matter if it is a QUALITY video, and your video's are Quality, I learn so much from them, and I have been building for many years. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.

lol Peter.....you are sounding like my father after he looked at the first Heathkit I built back in the early sixties; but I did finally learn to solder.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

lol hope that was not to hard to listen lol

Hi Peter, how are you ? This is CX3CP from Montevideo UY, I think you missed a component that seems burnt in the band pass filter, it seems to be L8, you can find it in the image at minute 21.53 of the video. On the right half of the screen. Very good videos, I always follow you. I also have my lab and do some repairs, but I don't film them. Kind regards and 73.

@py2bnd-sota411

2 жыл бұрын

Hi, L8 in the upper band BPF is not burned - It's simply the wrong inductor coming with the kit. It's to replace it for the right one to get full sensibility and output power on the higher bands...I build around 20 mcHF for buddys. All worked out of the box and never returned for repair 👍👍

@py2bnd-sota411

2 жыл бұрын

L8 is.not burned. It's the wrong inductor just coming with the SMD assembled kit. The right inductor is easy to find.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

yes it looks like but it is only a different type...

Great explanetion , 73 IW2OGQ, Rick

Anyone wanting to purchase a kit like this should first purchase a SMD Practice kit so that they can learn about SMDs and how to work with them.

I built one of the earlier versons of this radio. It was a fun challenge.

I really like the format of this radio. The generosity of open source and the founder of this kit is amazing. It's disappointing to see people supportive of Chinese commercial knockoffs and not the creator. Getting the PCB's is a problem though. They are so cheap to make I don't understand why the creator would not keep unlimited supply and keep this moving. This kit is almost a historical event in radio.

@Tamlin73

10 ай бұрын

But how do we find the original? I have tryed,but somebody says its discontuned, so then we have the clones left... and what did the original cost ? 73 from Norway

Ouch! What a mess. Well, you've said it all. See you next time.

Can you recommend a good flux and solder, also a vendor.

This helps!!!!!! Thank You!

Hi what is the make of the gel flux you use.

Can you disclose what kind of solder and flux you are using,and what you use to clean it after? Thank You

Great video sir. 73

The bigger the blob the better the job..;-) Good work so far, Peter. I personally do not like this kind of radios, no matter if they are ready to go or a kit. If you want to learn electronics, especially while not getting frustrated as a starter, you can have it for a way less money. It is sad to end up with a broken radio. This fellow was on a good way to learn, but this was way to difficult for him at this time. I appreciate that you took your time to film it and to dive deep down in the step by step parts. 73 de Olaf, DK6KF. Peter, bleib gesund und wie immer eine gute Zeit. Gruß nach HE!

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

lol guter Spruch! You are right I don't like those kits either but they can help to understand electronics in different ways....So it is okay for me.. Alle klar pass auf dich auf Olaf und bleib gesund! 73.

very awesome

Peter the best. Learned a lot again from you. Like your attitude and kindness.

which flux do you use or which one can you recommend?

Oh yes new stuff from TRX Lab :-)

I also build the mchf. I can still remember winding and soldering the coils. The enamel on it was a real pain. I could not solder it with the flux i had in my solder. The only thing that worked for me was scaping with a sharp knife around the ends and then pretinning it before soldering them in place. I would really like to know which flux you are using. Do you clean with isopropanol? Do you at any point suck out the solved flux?

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

AMTECH NC-559-V2-TF

TRX LABX MCHF SDR RADIO Receiver Kit is cool

I really enjoyed this video. The person did very bad on soldering. I build race drones and often get some from others who tried to build one and failed. Same exact problem is the soldering. And bad choice on flux. I have to always re do all the work. I guess most people are using not so good solering irons, and way too much solder.

Great video, Peter! Thanks for sharing. Soldering is a skill honed through practice, practice, practice! I'm currently building an Elecraft K2 kit. It's a very complex and challenging build, but very humbling when you reach the first power-up test and realize that you have forgotten to solder an entire component! I hope this will be a learning experience for the owner and that he can manage to repair the rig. It'd be a shame to have to waste almost €300 on this. It would be a very expensive paperweight! Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this experience.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

good luck with your K2!

@frasermderry

2 жыл бұрын

@@TRXLab Vielen Dank! 👍😁

@mbak7801

2 жыл бұрын

I built two K2s in the last year or so. Fantastic kit. You have to check, check and check again everything but they work very well indeed. Big shout out to Dave W8FGU who was a big help. I would recommend getting on the mailing list should you have issues. Peter again in this video shows a great methodical way of working and teaches very well.

@frasermderry

2 жыл бұрын

@@mbak7801 Yes, Dave has been a great resource for me in the construction of this project. 73, M. N1QGM

Great Video, thank you for your interest in keeping electronics' valid source of employment. With so much of "throw away electronics" people think that there is no longer a need for people to "repair" equipment.

As an R&D tech I found that trouble-shooting something brand new that has never worked before is the biggest challenge in trouble-shooting. Absolutely ANYTHING can be wrong. The possibilities are manifold compared to something that once worked, but now does not.

One must consume mass quantities of alcohol before building a kit of this nature. Your hands will shake much too much if one is sober! Thanks for video, Peter!

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

lol yeah anybody needs to find its own way...

I built my own .... just one addition A BIGGER HEATSINK. I am happy

dear peter..., con you suggest what Cain of solder compound will you recommend for..., and flux as well.., for these kit propose ...?

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

60% Tin, 40% Lead internal flux Melting 183-190c Diameter Choose from 0.3mm and 0.8mm, Flux:AMTECH NC-559-V2-TF

Great info Peter. I have had to rework a transceiver with the same problems. It took 6 months for my hair to grow back. Thanks again Peter. Carl

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

lol yeah I can believe that

I was just wondering Peter if one of those suction devices used by Dentist would save a lot of time cleaning up boards after applying cleaner to them? Especially in tight places where you you can't really wipe the area down? Great vid and what a magnifying glass! Its incredible the detail that gives the technician!!😀

Think you

Hi Peter your on the right path with the enamel coated wire .great video again I watched it to the end

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

Nicely done. What is the flux you use ? Is it in a syringe ?

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

Amtech

Hi Peter, interesting. Check L8 in the higher band BPF. Replace it for the right one since the wrong inductor just coming with the SMD preassembled PCBs. The wrong inductor reduces sensibility and power on the higher bands.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

yes I have seen it. Thank you

Your inspection was very good and revealed a lot. The one thing, I'm not sure you covered it, was that it looked like there was a chance that the kit builder might have wound some of those ferrite coils or regardless of who did, the insulation (varnish) may have not been removed resulting in no connection to the coil or very little for the actual builder. Many people have poor vision for small things and your using a microscope which reveals a lot. I still saw what we would consider bad solder joints, which would eventually become intermittent. Years of repairing these things helps. The quality control of Chinese built equipment has been a terrible problem from the beginning of their process including engineering ! That board was well mad though, so this particular kit was a builders nightmare.

Dear Peter 2 questions Lead free or Leaded solder and where do I get that flux ,also I live in England respect xx

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

for rework always leaded solder and we use AMTECH NC-559-V2-TF

After you clean off with the resin solvent, it would be nice to have a microscopic wet/dry vacuum cleaner!

I'm very interested in one of these radios in kit form. I've looked on eBay and can't seem to find one. Does anybody know where to purchase one of these in kit form so I can start practicing my soldering...lol

Enamel on the wire is that want to thinking of Peter.

Check the squelch on the sdr radio Receiver

The covering on the wires is "LAQUER" in English. We would pronounce it "LAK-KER". Warning - this is often based on Polyurethane and can give off harmful gases when heated. Always use your extract system (and make sure it actually works properyl!) Peter G0LQU

good job and a great video, peter

There are MANY sellers offering this radio, full assembled, with vary levels of quality

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

yeah have seen some on the web...

Very informative Peter. Like you say we all have to start somewhere. Soldering is a learned skill especially with the small size of components these days. Thanks for the lesson. A microscope is a must for this stuff. 73 de KB7ICI

what do you clean the flux with

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

IPO alcohol

Be good to see the ssb modulation and harmonic levels

Did you ever find a manual online for this radio?

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

yes search for the radio on the web for M0NKA

AT 1.09 you state we always need flux, if your board and components are clean. There is enough flux in the solder for the job. Extra flux helps reflowing a joint but again that can be in fresh solder.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

of course if you have the right solder and perfect pre conditions and the skills to solder it is all you need..

I think I catched it. Look at 22:02 at T2 transformer. There are in fact two ferite cores (or what) with some winding on it. But if you look carefully, then you would see three soldering pads inside both cores. If we speak about coils, their windings have only two ends, so what the third pad is intended for? In my opinion, that T2 (and I hope T1) are in fact part of reflectometric protection and TX power sensor, so there must be some wire going through both cores and I think this is what the third (now unpopulated) pad is intended for. The output of the PA goes to wire going through theese two transformers just to sense forward and reflected power. If this is not populated, then there is no way for the RF signal to properly reach the antenna plug which is exactly what is happening. It is misswired and completely screwed near T2 transformer. This needs to look inside manual and figure out how this should be wired. There is also some red symbol on the home screen saying "Sensor!". I don't know what this means, but in my opinion this is something like an error message trying to tell us that something is terribly wrong with some sensor, and, in fact, what I've described is some kind of power sensing circuit malfunction, so I think that theese two things relate each other. I tried out to figure out if I am right or wrong using their documentation, but that's not any documentation, that's horrible mess. Every user of Altium produces mess instead of documentation, that's not a bug, that's feature, but this is kind of over the top, this reaches near the Eagle level. In fact, if you see schematic drawing made using Eagle or Altium, then, in the name of your own mental sanity, do not touch that thing, consequences could be fatal. And, on top on that all, the soldering is terrible, coils and transformers are poorly wound, and overall design of that radio is weird and poor in many aspects, it's not a thing I would like to loose time with.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

yeah seems to be right so an additional valuable hint for the owner! Thank you

Many years ago, I developed a "reputation" for being able to get just-built non-operating Heathkit equipment working properly. Despite the enormous size of components in those days, and Heathkit's superb documentatioin with obvious attention to detail, the errors were (worst first): bad or missed solder joints; or wrong power soldering iron or use of acid flux; electrolytics wrong way round; component missed completely or wrong one fitted; incorrect or missed wiring connections; incorrect fusing leading to speakers destroyed by high current, and mechanical damage of boards due to insufficient care while building. In one case pcb damage was so bad, I simply said "unrepairable." I suspect they used a soldering iron bit heated on a gas stove! Copper tracks were missing or hanging in the air!

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I know what you mean and we have here a mix on what you wrote .. Thank you

Hallo Peter eind sehr gutes video.

@TRXLab

Жыл бұрын

Vielen Dank

I purchased one from M0NKA and fully built. it has an attachable battery in the back and an antenna tuner. I love it. would never buy from Ali nor Bangood.

How about a link where you can buy one?

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

www.m0nka.co.uk/

Hello Peter, can you give us a recommendation for a good flux? Maybe you would like to make a video about the basic tools that an electronics hobbyist should have. Thank you for your great videos. vy73

Hello, I have had this transceiver for three years, you cannot use it with the compression, turn it off and you will again have the 3 to 8 w of the station. I control my station with V3 console and an sdrplay, my station has an output. IF taken at the preamplification input of the station for the sdrplay.

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

Great vídeo. With amazing work.

Where I get a kit like that

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

search on the web for the name and for M0NKA

Hi Peter, it does not say on the web page if the output power is quoted in PEP or carrier power - it just says '5W output power'. If the design output is 5W PEP, it might actually be working to spec: 1.5W carrier would be equivalent to 6W PEP... just a thought! 73 Alan

@TRXLab

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Alan, good point! Never read the manual but that make sense.. 73