You should take your top pick from 2023 and run it through the same evaluation to get a baseline to compare all the 2024 bows to.

@Vintage-406

9 ай бұрын

Agreed

@timothycaiello1873

8 ай бұрын

Seconded

@coryCT

7 ай бұрын

Tres

I like the new format! One thing that I think you could add would be a decibel reading. Most bows don't shock your hands that much anymore, so I care a lot more about how loud it is. I would guess that the half-inch of draw length is coming from the 85% let-off. From what I understand, lowering your let-off decreases your draw length. Bear is probably measuring their drawing lengths at 70%. Keep up the good work!

@longshotdiedtired1582

8 ай бұрын

What the hell is hand shock anyways ? I’ve been shooting bows since 07 and I can’t recall any bows bothering my hand !

@daniels362

8 ай бұрын

@@longshotdiedtired1582 From what I understand, bows in the early 2000s and earlier would jump out of your hands a bit when you shot them and people were putting all sorts of silencing equipment on them to try to calm them down. I have a cheaper PSE from 2011 that really buzzes in my hand if I don't put a bunch of string silencers on it. I can't think of any hunting bow today that does that.

A couple things I would mention regarding the vibration test. (I've been doing vibration testing for a living for the last 13 years) 1. If you leave it on the sight like that, you'll need to make sure it's always mounted in the same position on every bow you test, otherwise vibration will change based on the distance of the dovetail from the mounting point. The further out the higher the vibration amplitude is likely to be. (Like a tuning fork) 2. That's most likely a single axis accelerometer. Turning it 90* where it's inline with the shot or parallel to the arrow will give a more accurate reading as the bow jumps toward the target. Really like the new format though. You give a lot more objective info than most bow reviews.

@nicetryb0z0

9 ай бұрын

We need to get this comment to the top!

@taylorstaudt49

9 ай бұрын

I'm a fellow vibration guy here, first thing I noticed was how the transducer was off from the riser. it would be hard to get comparable results because of different riser designs, would almost have to mount off the handle to measure the "felt vibration" but that is all subjective anyway.

Mathew's is always a half inch long and most bows are a little over

Vibration test 1661 was from when you came off the wall, it was 1269 at the shot. 1278, 1269 and 1802, but hitting the back wall on the last shot looked like it was hitting over 1700. Cool concept, might take a little more testing to get bugs out.

@lloydh777

9 ай бұрын

Vibration test was definitely flawed. The high numbers were on the draw cycle. It was in the 1200-1300's on the shot.

@joshfeister6566

8 ай бұрын

Bears shit anyway so don’t matter

Lol The manufacturers and their marketing staff must hate you Personally I love it and your honesty Keep them coming

Love the new way you're doing everything. Always great product and reviews. Keep up the good work, Bud.

MFJJ love the new process! I’m a firearms instructor and take similar number based approaches to my comparisons. I started shooting a bow this summer and I’m excited to see more reviews like this. One thing to consider is an excel type document that you can update and share in a link with every video that shows the current scores of the bows tested so far. At the end of testing you’ll have a comprehensive document unlike anything anyone else is currently doing that I’m aware of. Then in future years you can compare the bows to previous generations.

@StanleyHarper

9 ай бұрын

^^^^^^^^

@lspostma

9 ай бұрын

About ten years ago there were two guys that had a "lab" set up to do exactly what Josh is doing -. I will try to find a link to their works - but they did vibration, sound decibel readings, speed checks, and produced draw force curves for all the let-off options, actual measurements compared to manufacturer's spec, etc. The reports were often published in either Archery Business or Arrowtrade magazine.

Thanks for this review. Love the new format. Looking forward to future reviews. Please test the new Bear Alaskan and other mid priced 2024 bows.

I really like this format. I'm just getting into watching bow reviews as I am trying to progress my knowledge and this is the second review of the Persist. I really liked some of the details as it grew my bow knowledge and out of the two reviews, this one was by far the best. I definitely would love to see more reviews like this.

HELL YES JOSH!! Yall are really stepping up your review process. Fantesticle work!

Love this format Looking forward to you guys dialing it in more and then checking the high end flagships this year

I like the scoring system. Im very interested to see what all the new bows score. Good job coming up with this new format, it keeps things interesting

Love the new format. Looking foeward to all the reviews this year.

Love your new setup on the bow reviews.

I like the idea. But your scoring still appears to be a little subjective or maybe I just missed something. I think you need to determine your value in each category before you test the bows to be consistent over time. Example, IBO speed - within X number of rated would be top score. What value do you then apply if it within 5fps off, what value do you apply if it is 5-10/11-15/16-20fps off and so on. Do the same with the other values your measuring. Example 30in draw length. What value do you apply if the draw is within a 32/16/8 of the bows rated draw length, should 1/2 inch get a zero? Having these values set prior to rating the bow will keep the score from being subjective and evenly applied across the bows. You won’t have to say, Do I give it a 3 or a 2, the decision has already been made before you even review the bow. Hope this made sense.

The bow reviews are starting and I cant wait to see all the new bows and what theyve changed.

So far this has been the best set up to review bows. Less sales speeches and more real info. Keep it up.

I'm actually more curious about the Bear Alaskan XT. A $560 MSRP bow rated at 335 fps, 33" ATA with a pic rail option for sight and rest.

@jordanhudson5075

9 ай бұрын

Go check out better outdoors archery review on it

Love the new review format. Definitely much more helpful

Well done . luv the new way of testing, adding the 3 arrow weights gives the buyer much better vision of what he might be getting

I think it’s pretty cool the new way of measuring. I can’t wait to see what the chart looks like at the end. As always great content. Like you said what one person looks for or likes in bow differs from person to person.

I like the layout but one question on this with the draw length disparity.... Did you measure the draw length at the 75% let off? M my Omnia is at least half inch longer at 90% let off when compared to 75%. What're the odds the published draw lengths and speeds were at the lower let off? Keep up the awesome work

Great vid mate..i love my bows..and watching u explain everything about the bows u review is awesome..stay safe brother..australia watching..

DB reading at each arrow weight would be sweet to add, love the new review !

I like it and glad you are going to keep the scores where we can find them.

You are right on. Very good format!!

Have always appreciated your reviews but man this will be great going forward! Really going to make my KZread viewing run over my timer i set for it on my phone 😆...but my bow geekness thanks you 🤙

Great new process. Looking forward to more bows going through.

I like the new format and additional statistical information. Will definitely shed light on quality control from the various companies

Nice work. A couple things to improve the vibration measurement: 1. Measure in line with the arrow/shot. In the video the accel is mounted perpendicular to the shot. You probably don’t care about side to side vibration. To mount it in line, mount directly to where the stabilizer bar mounts. Use this 5/16”-24 to #10-32 adapter to achieve that. This will also make your results more consistent with a consistent mounting location. 2. Try to measure peak shock in G’s (1 G = 9.81 m/s^2)

Thank you for testing archery equipment for your viewers. Testing metrics are tough to develop. I primarily want a quiet and accurate bow. As it turns out, accuracy may be more dependent on the shooter than the bow and the level of noise at the shot can be significantly impacted by arrow weight and the quality of the accessories affixed to the bow. Tough stuff - thanks again.

I did the wrist strap through the riser back in 2010 with the Bowtech Destroyer 350, when I noticed the hole at the base of the grip. I fed both ends of my wrist sling through that hole, tied them together, and tucked the tied part back into the hole.

I like this! Not all of us are shooting light arrows.

Very good statistics in my opinion. No one else is doing more then a chronograph in most videos so I'd say you're wayyy ahead of the curve. Love the content and before I forget....wanna tune my vtm 31? 🤣

Like the new format cant wait for the next one.

I like the scoring format... seems like a cool way to rank the impression of the bows. Always need to shoot them yourself but it def helps narrow down the bows to try

I like the new format. I have an idea, set the draw length score at zero. Subtract 1 for every 1/8” over 30”

Keep up the great work

Wow this new format for rating the bow is fantastic.. 🔥

Bear is my favorite bow company great value and performance.

I love the new scoring set up!

Yup, great info as always.

Great video love the way your doing it this year I know 1/2 inch is long but I wonder if they advise draw length at lower let off I know elite is that way I also know that almost every bow I have is about a 1/2 long the pse bows I've had have been close on draw length but almost every mathews hoyt have been 1/2 inch long

Really liking the new format!

Nice to see the draw length measured. People think just because the mod says 29” it’s 29”. 😅

Like the content! Maybe also do a few shots with the lowest draw length also for us short guys

Great stuff Brother!

Apparently your tape measure must be broken when testing a Mathews draw length? They have been 1/2” long for years! Good content and useful but don’t be a homer. Specs are specs. To say “longest in a while” is total bs. Just saying.

Plot twist.. That ring on top is actually a sight for when that big buck comes in and catches you off guard you can hip fire real quick and git ‘em 😂😂

Love your content wish I was in your area would definitely come to yall

This is fantastic. Hard score of pure measurements and MFO score of tons of experience.

Are you going to make sure that you put the vibration measurement the same distance out on the rail for every bow this year?

I enjoy your reviews man. Could you do one on the alaskan xt? I'm curious to how accurate the draw lengths are on the bear line too.

Look forward to all the new bow reviews!!

I like this new format. I think Bear kinda stroked the monkey on this bow (especially at that price). I've seen some reviews on the new Alaskan, it's half the price and probably just as good (maybe better) form what I've seen. I think the majority of Bear's sales will be the mid-priced bows this year.

@tykeni6521

9 ай бұрын

Totally agree, buy a bear for a good deal. After a certain amount of money there are way better brands.

You should redo the Persist. Since now you have your process down pat. 1st on the chopping block always gets it. Bc now other reviewers have the Bear Persist as dead in hand, quiet, and fast.

Recommend mounting the accelerometer of the vibration machine on the riser. Doing so will give you a more accurate reading. When you mount the accelerometer to the sight, the extension of the rod it will give an induce reading. I believe the extension of the sight arm acts like a tuning for which will vibrate more than the riser.

Pretty cool. Be fun to see how it evolves.

I like the new tests I dont mind watching longer for this stuff thx...

Like the new format. the quantitative results appeal to me in a review. For the vibration testing, The VEL is for velocity and the units is most likely mm/sec.

Great review as always. Do the 2024 pse laser for us

This could be really interesting to see how this goes, cos Bear are usually on the lower end with there pricing. I wouldn't be surprized to see that most companies come in more expensive. It would be really good to see what you think, of Bears new Mid priced bows they look like your really getting a lot for your money...

@cams.3102

9 ай бұрын

I think for the average joe they are hard to beat. I’m heavily considering the Alaskan XT with the integrated mounting options.

@Waty8413

9 ай бұрын

Bow technology has plateaued. Most of the recent improvements are in ease of tuning or gimmicky new accessory mounts, not actual performance. It doesn't even matter if the new Bears are any good. They are going to force other companies to put more features on the mid range offerings,even if it us just a pic rail and a roller cable guard.

@chickimac1

8 ай бұрын

I just got a bear whitetail legend pro I’m anxiously ready to setup

Congratulations: good way to evaluate a bow! Have you ever tested a Oneida Pohenix bow? That would be interesting, because its a different type of compound bow. You can add the Kinetic energy of the arrows to your chart. That would show how much energy each bow generates with different arrow weigths. So you can show wich arrow weight is the one that is more efficient to the bow.

Love the new format. How difficult would it be to add string angle to the specs? Bows with the same axle lengths will have different string angle because of cam size and grip position on the riser.

As a bear archery fan, I would gladly take the bow off your hands and try for myself.

Good test ! I like the new chart 👍

I like the new scoring method! The bow actually one of the better looking Bear bows I’ve seen.

With the rear mount for the rest that should be able to accept the hamski epsilon cor system? Or will another braket/plat be needed?

I think you have came up with a review that is honest and very useful. You did not seem to enjoy that particular bow at all!

I ordered a Whitetail Maxx which should be here the week of Christmas. It' going to be my EDC bow that I leave in my car during hunting season. This way, I'm always ready to go when an opportunity arises. And then it would be a backup bow when I bring my flagship with me on a planned hunt. I'm also part of a deer management group here that hunts all year round on nuisance permits.

Josh, did you correct the draw length from the measured 30.5" to actually be 30" before running the vibration and speed checks? If not, one could reasonably deduct 5fps from the speeds for the 30.5" measured draw length...

I def like te new add ons to the pocees and it as a whole, as for the bow it seemed very consistent wonder the price seems like a descent bow

I dig the new format, 1300 bucks is crazy for a bear bow though, don't know what they were thinking.

Digging the new format. Maybe 2 separate columns for subjective and non subjective scores? It was just a little busy to look at.

Very straightforward and equally very understandable. If you need someone to build out the spreadsheets and build out the comparisons and charts over time let me know.

I would love to see a short draw performance section of the reviews! Maybe at a 27 inch draw.

Thanks for the review. You give the data on the bows you review and you show how you got that data. I do have a question about the reflex of this particular bow. From what I understand, it is the distance from the line connecting the limb pivot points to the throat of the grip (some use the berger button hole). The pivot point would be the point where the limbs contact the back of the limb pocket. I see 1 1/2" of reflex and you see 1 1/2" of reflex. Another "reviewer" comes up with 4 3/4" of reflex. WTF? Where would a person have to measure to come up with that?

Maybe a comparison of vibration levels with what you feel sets the standard in this category, and maybe a decibel rating at different arrow weights compared to like a Matthews. Great job MFJJ!

I like it, keep adding the more budget bows. I for one cannot afford Matthews, PSE, Hoyt flagship level bows. I shoot Bear and Trophy Ridge products that work for me.

You should include fit & finish (inconsistencies in the paint, tooling marks etc.) in your ranking. I measured noise and vibration with a phone app. I used a bicycle phone holder mounted to a stabilizer. Works great. In my opinion the price for this bow is a little steep. Two integrated slings and a fancy cable slide, thats it. Otherwise it's pretty standard.

My 2 cents is that your subjective vibration measurement is prob better than what you can measure given the many factors affecting vibration at the shot. I doubt you can do apples to apples comparisons without drilling and tapping the sensor into a consistent part of each bow such as the grip. I really like the different arrow weight comparisons and the reflex measurement. You always do a great job on these with no apparent bias. Well done again. Just rethink trying to make a meaningful vibration measurement. Your personal judgement is probably better.

Bow reviews were best before, with the exception of your new vibration toy. Thank you for trying to get everyone the most information you can.

I have a bear status Eko pretty similar bow accept it has two string stops for a symmetrical look and I think its 33inch ata. Beautiful bow to shoot.

I have 2 EKO 2021 models 30" and 33" they are both .5" long on AMO draw. Not sure why they don't give the real max draw range on EKOs it is 30.5" AMO.

Very cool!

Damn dude that's pretty rough I genuinely believe the bear bows compared to other manufacturers don't fluff their numbers much

I like the new system! I'm a numbers guy, perfect!

Id like to see you redue this bow compared to the other bows please sir?

So is the reading 12.69 I’m sorry I’m trying to understand cause this test compared to the bhp lift vibration test so does this have even less vibration than the lift? I’m sorry if I sound ignorant

How do you find the quality and price for this 24 vs the 23

Good stuff

Do a review of the Martin Dsx sweet bows

Really like the new format! Looks like a decent bow but missed on the price. Main reason to get bear bows is the value you’re getting. I could see 899 being good price point,

Bears come with 2 grips which gives you 3 options. They have a level in the riser which is a great idea. Sling option machined into limb pockets and now have a bushing for rear stabilizer and rubber silent shelf. They always have limb stop option too. Just saying. No fanboy but we never see true unbiased reviews on Bears. They screwed the pooch with just a short ata bow imo. The speed is really easy to remedy, set it to actual dl measurement and test it there. Instead of dead feel and vibe, which should be mentioned but sound is most important. Great effort but I give you a 3 on this review MFJW.😂

will mathews or bowtech be coming out with a new hunting bow this year

I was wondering if your vibration test would be easier to perform and more consistent with shooting the bow from a Hooter Shooter. Thoughts? What’s the device that you’re using to measure vibration? Thanks for the detailed review!

Would love to know how loud they are?

Josh bouncing off the back wall 😂😂

Did you adjust the draw length when changing the letoff on previous tests? Every 5% change on my PSE needs around 1/2" adjustment to the draw to length to keep it the same.

@liamboyle9199

8 ай бұрын

Half an inch for 5%, are you sure?

@GlenKimpton

8 ай бұрын

@@liamboyle9199 I'm not sure of much these days. I'm about to drop 5% again. I'll re measure