Might as well just install dual function AFCI/GFCI breakers for the whole house and just be done with it.

@theodoreroberts3407

Жыл бұрын

I'm green (trying to get to be a journeyman), but that's the way I see it. If I do that no body will be mad at me later.

@anthonypicozzi7360

Жыл бұрын

At this point we should price it that way

@estevaness

Жыл бұрын

Would simplify things a lot.

@y2kmadd

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. AFCI/GFI breakers for every circuit. Future-proof.

@Wintersky136

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree! The NEC 2023 is just unnecessarily complicated in that maner!

Seems it would be easier just to list what doesn't need GFCI protection.

@sl06bhytmar

Жыл бұрын

in Europe, you GFCI everything, Arc-flash protectors are becoming mandatory to wet & dwelling rooms.

@dporrasxtremeLS3

Жыл бұрын

E V E R Y T H I N G!!!

@user-oe5ey3ex8b

4 ай бұрын

Just make all breakers GFCI

The NEC should just make a code change to have every outlet to be GFCI protected. This has gone beyond crazy.

@G.I.JeffsWorkbench

3 ай бұрын

And then in 2026 they’ll need to be AFCI/GFCI dual function.

Thanks for paying close attention to NEC updates. Very helpful.

I’ve been waiting on these to start coming out from you. I learned so much from the last code cycle.

Just found your channel! Awesome content! Thank you for taking the time to help us to understand the NEC!!!

Awesome 2023 start Ryan. Great video.

Ryan, thanks for the update as always!

Thank you, Ryan for these clarifications. Thank you for what you do for all of us. Its up to us to keep informed. So cheers, from Pennsylvania 👍

Thank you Ryan for your help and support for all of us Sparkys out here in the field.

Thanks for keeping us informed!

Ryan, this is good information. Thanks for helping us electricians to interpret the new code.

Dual function everything. Got it👍

Love the channel brother. I am a safety manager in the construction industry. Just purchased the 70E book to study. Will need it as we are building a Data center near Dulles airport Va.

Thank you for clearing this up about the bathroom exhaust fans

Great stuff here Ryan, looking forward to your book!

Ryan, I just came across your channel. Great teaching. My wife and have low income investment property and always use licensed contractors but sometimes have disagreements on scope. Understanding the new requirements helps me ask the right questions up front and avoid the disagreements. Thank you for the timely teaching. I look forward to watching more of your videos.

Outstanding!! Thanks for breaking it down

As always, Amazing video!

Great work. Thanks for all the help

Thank you for this summarization! As a DIY homeowner on many projects, i prefer to follow all codes up to or beyond those required in my area, so this is excellent information to help in the "keeping up" process.

Thank you! Can't wait to buy your book

Thank you for sharing your knowledge

Nice, so now the 20A breaker for a mini-split is $120 instead of $28... Don't tell me Square D et al. don't have their fingers in the pie that is the NEC...

@jeffbower5525

Жыл бұрын

Manufacturers (or any other group on the CMPs) cannot make up more than 1/3 of the CMP. It takes a 2/3 majority to pass any code change. So yes, you are incorrect.

@FJB2020

Жыл бұрын

They pretty much wrote every article about how great AFCI was and why we need them when they first came out... All about profits and nothing to do about "safety"...

@jeffbower5525

Жыл бұрын

@@FJB2020 you're opinion is incorrect.

@FJB2020

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffbower5525 'Your'

@jeffbower5525

Жыл бұрын

@@FJB2020 Thanks Mr. Grammar Nazi

Great explanation, Ryan! FWIW, the TIA for 210.8(F) shown was for 2020 NEC®; HVAC could not meet THEIR OWN January 1, 2023, so TIAs and/or Appeals MIGHT extend this to 2025 or 2026.

I've watched this for 4 minutes. Subscribing, time now.

Great video thanks for putting in the effort to make it

10:00 "... it probably isn't adding that much to the cost..." Sounds like politicians -not their money being spent. FACT: a little here, a little there ADDS UP TO A LOT IN THE END. More like manufacturers' lobbying to ADD MORE SALES AND PROFITS..

@jonsworld5307

Жыл бұрын

exactly what it is conter tops and bathrooms weres there water yes eery were else no thanks

Love the content.. thanks

On the topic of GFI's for outside units, the "150 V or less to ground' might be mis-interpreted if a unit only has 240 vac feed with no neutral. It does have less than 150v to ground measured from either L1 or L2 to ground but the unit itself only runs on 240vac which is greater than 150v. Further confusing the interpretation is "if supplied by single-phase branch circuit" may be interpreted as 120 vac only branch circuit. I do understand the intent. After several years in my new house my 240 AC sprinkler pump died. When I went to install a new pump I discovered the ground wire was not originally connected to pump motor case. If the motor winding developed a short to case there could have been 120 vac on the case of pump to ground. Same can happen with an air conditioner metal case. The problem with mini-splits and some variable speed compressors is their switching power supplies for three phase inverter VFD have some small EMI bypass capacitors to metal case ground, so they meet EMI (radio interference emissions) specifications. This creates a small amount of current on ground wire that creates the GFI ground fault. Do you really think an A/C service shop replacing an old 240vac outside air conditioner compressor unit is going to get the old non-GFI equipped 240vac feed to outside unit upgraded with GFI breaker in fuse box?

Looking forward to getting the book as I will be testing for JW under 2023 code. As always, love how you keep things concise and clear and use examples from the field. Mike Holt's videos are near unwatchable with all his tangents and fluff. Thanks

21:53 The wording was technically correct either way. Previously, it said "indoor damp and wet locations" meaning "indoor damp locations and wet locations". Now it says "indoor damp or wet locations" meaning "indoor locations which are damp or wet". Technically, "damp and wet locations" could be interpreted as either "(damp locations) and (wet locations)" or as "(damp and wet) locations", but as you said, it actually logically does not make sense for a location to be both damp and wet at the same time, so the phrase clearly must be intended to mean the former, not the latter. It arguably still doesn't hurt to remove the ambiguity if possible, though...

Good stuff, great vid. I wish I got continuing education credit for this, this is better then Jade Learning!

I am an international student studying construction engineer. You are the best person to explain the electrical code Thanks

I am a Home Inspector in Texas and your photo of the bathroom requiring the bedroom receptacle to be GFCI protected was spot on. I recently inspected a home where the GFCI receptacle was on the left side of the sink while the still plugged in curling iron was plugged in the non-GFCI receptacle. There was nothing plugged into the GFCI so my reasoning was the user of the curling iron was right handed and was more convenient since the GFCI was operating properly. I left the home owner a note explaining the danger but your videos are FANTASTIC and extremely helpful.

@robertmcenery4344

Жыл бұрын

If the bathroom was wired properly, the single GFCI outlet protects the other outlets in the bathroom.

@MR-nl8xr

Жыл бұрын

Aren't "windows" by definition EXCLUSIVELY installed on EXTERIOR WALLS?

@z1522

9 ай бұрын

@@MR-nl8xr As he so clearly tries to explain, a Window may be defined ambiguously. We had an old house, originally a log box circa 1920; during its multiple expansion/remodels, a garage space (later converted to large work studio) was added, and right there was one of the original windows, with sliding glass, facing not the great outdoors, but the work studio. "By definition" LITERALLY means one had better take the time to actually define every critical term used, whenever laws or codes are developed.

@ThunderClawShocktrix

2 күн бұрын

if it was wired properly that outlet was hooked to the load side of the GFCI if not thats very dangerous as it could lure people into false sense of security

Excellent video .

The major appliances in my kitchen have been on GFCI for years. Kitchen sink is metal cabinet with stainless top. Appliances are all stainless steel. An older dishwasher I had, caught fire while running. The heating element apparently rusted and leaked, blew up, and blew out almost a foot of the coiled wire without breaking it, against the back of the plastic tub. The tub caught fire, causing molten, burning plastic to drip onto the floor and onto the 1/4 inch nylon water feed to the refrigerator. The plastic tubing developed a pinhole that sprayed water all over the back wall and under the dishwasher. Allowing the dishwasher to finish its cycle without burning my house down. Gallons of water covered the kitchen floor and rained into the unfinished basement. The new dishwasher has a stainless tub and a gfci service switch installed at the counter. My Whirlpool French door refrigerator tripped the gfci receptacle one day. I located the control board and traced the trouble to the ice maker. The heating element developed a high resistance short from hot to ground. The gfci tripped when the ice maker started to eject the ice and powered up the heater to free the ice from the tray to push it out. The gfci saved the refrigerator from damage to the control board and a melted wiring harness. All it needed was a new ice maker.

@stargazer2504

Жыл бұрын

On your refrigerator- I'm assuming you caught it before the food went bad? Because you'd need all new food to lol. Also similar to your dishwasher incident- My house had a short to ground which sent amps through the entire ground system without tripping breakers. Well, the cable tv system was bonded to all of this (per code) and it melted the coax. The coax turned orange and started a fire on the outer vinyl siding. The flaming, dripping vinyl siding dripped onto the PEX supply pipe running up the outside wall, melted a hole into the PEX, which sprayed out a steady stream of water ONTO THE SIDING which put out the fire and prevented the house from burning down. This all happened at 4am while we slept. Talk about luck!

@robertmcenery4344

Жыл бұрын

@@stargazer2504 WOW! That's 2 points in favor of plastic plumbing!

@z1522

9 ай бұрын

You and @tracynation2820 present great object lessons, regarding the cost/benefit trade-offs, between obstinately refusing to accept NEC upgrades, and the "expense" related to a few hundred dollars of spoiled food. One burnt dishwasher, > $500; siding fire, plumbing leak and damage, a few $1000; burnt house, your call. A couple hours of electrician labor, and new receptacles or breakers, against all that other stuff, seems pretty obvious. Not even factoring in a 4 am fire and lives inside. But, hey, Freedom, and all that. Is your flag fire-resistant?

@robertmcenery4344

9 ай бұрын

You speak like someone who would be proud to keep a slightly damaged extension cord around because it still works fine. Then your daughter chooses it to power her iPhone while she's in the tub. Result: A sad ending to a teenage girl's life. But hey, FREEDOM.

@stargazer2504

9 ай бұрын

@@z1522 can you quote where my story stated I was "obstinately refusing to accept NEC upgrades" and "expense"? I was merely sharing a coincidental story that happened to us. Where do you get the idea that we were rebuking the NEC code for "our freedom" at the expense of our LIVES? Please explain, if you even can.

Sure glad I don't have to worry about codes around here.. I would hate to shell out 3k in breakers just to pass inspection and tear them all out again and replace with normal ones..

@The_Ladder_Perspective

Жыл бұрын

🤣

I actually made up an SO cord with cord cap that is 6' long from cord cap face to end of cord for measuring this. I obviously did not terminate the conductors in the cord cap.

Super. Back when I first started putting in GFCI outlets, three to five out of every ten I bought were bad or died within a month. Even back then I realized that it was a bad idea to have a GFCI in one bathroom protecting another bathrooms outlet, so I put a GFCI outlet wherever required. $40 each back then, but 100% customer satisfaction. They ought to just make every breaker a GFCI/AFCI mechanism, but if they do, I am going to stock up on regular breakers. 💙 T.E.N. Edit: I just removed the GFCI protection from my refrigerator, and installed separate heavy duty 120 volt 20 ampere NON GFCI/AFCI outlets, one in my garage, one in the hall, and one to the sump pump. Now I just plug the vacuum to the hall outlet, no more refrigerator dying, the sump pump will run until the power dies, and the garage one is for the tools and equipment that don't like AFCI protection, and for my RV, which trips an AFCI breaker, but not a GFCI, which was traced to an in vehicle battery charger. 💙 T.E.N.

@maxheadroom8857

Жыл бұрын

If the refrigerator or freezer is made before the 90s code change requiring GFCIs on outlets near the sink in kitchens, that fridge or freezer might trip the GFCI. New ones are more likely to withstand tripping a GFCI. You can always use a battery backup pack to buffer the fridge and keep it running if a GFCI trips behind it. You will usually hear a backup beeping if a circuit trips.

@jovetj

Жыл бұрын

@@maxheadroom8857 What kind of battery backup? The ones you use for computers? Those are not designed for inductive loads.

@maxheadroom8857

Жыл бұрын

@@jovetj An electronics shop might have a backup that will power a fridge

Very informative

Great information Sir. Sooner or later every outlet in a home will be GFCI protected. Just wait for it.

@lpnelson6584

Жыл бұрын

That's probably a good assumption.

Definitely interesting. I'm not an electrician but in my state the homeowner is allowed to do their own electrical. Always check your state codes. Last year when I wired a minisplit (one that won't work on GFCI) my state hadn't adopted the 2020 NEC yet (whenever I tackle a large electrical project I always check). However they did so on July 1st this year and interestingly they specifically struck out the requirements for GFCI on outlets over 125V. So someone with sway in the statehouse didn't want to get with the times yet.

@lyfandeth

Жыл бұрын

In my town, about the only thing you can change without pulling a permit is a light switch trim plate. Gotta love it, tax mafia.

Not a bad rule about not having to protect ceiling fans with GFCI protection. In my 50 plus years as a sparky never saw the commonest style fan motor , A shaded pole ever short or ground out . Had the exact same type of motor on my early 1960's erector set 120 volt motors. Been years since I took a shaded pole fan motor apart but kinda remember that the enamel motor wire is only in contact with either a maroon fiber material or plastic vastly limiting those motor wire from grounding out.

The commercial kitchen sink at 21:00 is in a stainless frame and counter. Wouldn't that extent the 6' rule as the entire countertop is conductive.

Appears to be conflicting GFCI rules. Great that the GFCI for garage ceiling door opener receptacles must be readily accessible why 700# vending machines must have a GFCI built into cord believe within 18" of the male plug. Problem with that when there are rows of vending machines might need a trained rat to reset cord GFCI without getting a hernia moving machine. Thanks for another great vidio. When we wired in areas with more then 3 or 4 vending machines would try to install a panel nearby with a cover that can be locked to make it easier to secure it reset a circuit breaker.

@jovetj

Жыл бұрын

If you came expecting common sense, you'll be sorely disappointed.

@ThunderClawShocktrix

2 күн бұрын

whjy does the garage door opener even *NEED* to be on a GFCI though not somehting you are going to touch when went

It's adding a lot of cost if you already bought the AFCI and now you have to go back and buy a dual purpose one.

@johnschroeder3072

Жыл бұрын

this is only for new/replacements not already installed equipment.

You explain things so perfectly man. Mike Holt should take notes from you

I agree dual function breakers for everything aside from the circuit the smokes are on.

27:30 without any doubt… those ACs whips are romex from the disconnect to hole in the wall then into 3/4 lfnc to the unit. Romex outdoor. Done here in texas 80 percent of the time 🥴

it's easy to talk about all these requirements like it's no big deal and i understand it all comes down to safety And while i agree with about 98% of the codes some go overboard and are completely unnecessary and juzt don't make sense plus when your a contractor all the constant calls due to nuisance tripping of all these gfci/afci breakers is a serious annoyance, nobody wants to be spending hours every week just driving around resetting breakers because it's amazing how many home owners don't know how to reset these .

Hopefully the cost will go down for the breakers. For my own home, all of my breakers are the dumb style so I was considering swapping all of them and only returning back for the branches with unacceptable nuisance trips. So to get an idea of the cost I looked up the price of breakers at my local big-box store. The price of normal breakers for my box brand were about $7USD. The AFCI for my box brand were about $70USD. That's a full magnitude of order. If (for nice round numbers) I were to replace 10 of them I'd be looking at $700 in material cost alone to replace about $70 worth of breakers as a DIY project. Probably much more to hire a professional (I'm a trained electronics tech, not an electrician).

@jeffeverde1

Жыл бұрын

In a new install, that's slightly mitigated by eliminating the need for GFCI receptacles.

@guygrotke8059

Жыл бұрын

Look up a 2 pole GFCI for a 50 amp stove circuit: You will be shocked at the cost.

@jovetj

Жыл бұрын

@@guygrotke8059 Square D (QO) 250V 50A -AFCI- /GFCI Circuit Breaker _only_ $145 on Amazon at the time of this writing. I wonder what the AFCI-combo version will cost; can't find one right now.

@z1522

9 ай бұрын

I have to laugh when any home owner laments the "expense" of upgrades that might not match their annual beer budget. Further, these are pretty fundamental upgrades, and at least would help avoid a destructive fire, which in turn might trigger an insurance investigation - and if flagrant violations or neglectful maintenance by the owner was demonstrated, your claim might be denied. Heck, a total revamping of a service panel might even get you an insurance rate reduction. A man often credited with advancing the idea of electricity is often credited, but the expression pre-dates him: "Penny wise and pound foolish."

I definitely support the idea of the bath fan being a receptacle I've seen in apartments and what not indoor extension cords plugged into that fan outlet with the fan unplugged. If it were a nonstandard plug that would fix the issue for me but as is someone can actually pull down the grill and plug a lamp into the thing. Gets complicated with fan lights combos though cause your don't want the light going off with a GFCI trip.

Love your books! Keep it up Ryan! Great info. What else is new?

@RyanJacksonElectrical

Жыл бұрын

More videos to come!

Great vid. When u going back on mike holt panel to be in his recordings???

Here is the thing and I agree with many we will end up with a panel with all dual function breakers and that is good in that longer term these will result in a safer installation. But here is the thing especially AFCIs in detecting serial and parallel arc requires both circuit design and algorithms to determine that transients and waveform signals are an arc event. Unfortunately with many non-linear loads with power factors less than one will generate transient waveforms that could trip AFCIs. The likelihood of these tripping in a panel in my view is slightly higher as a panel is a hub for multiple circuits feeding in one place and creates more opportunities for arc like noise to propagate as those circuits could feed multiple non-linear loads. I prefer where possible to fit dual AFCI/GFCI receptacles near key loads which are accessible. That way I can re-set quickly if AFCI trips. Microwaves and coffee machines are particularly good at creating arc like signal waveforms. My microwave does trip once every 3-months. Is it a nuisance?Yes it is but with such infrequent trips I can live with it if the result is a safer installation. That being said manufacturers of devices including white goods should be investing more in circuit design and more comprehensive signal and power quality testing to suppress generation of noisy transients. The AFCI devices are improving but it’s unlikely that they could ever filter out the vast number of transients generated by non-linear load devices. When I upgrade my panels in next few years it will be interesting to see how selective coordination issues with multiple dual function devices work together on a circuit. If an AFCI trips at device location would we get double trips one at source and one at the panel adding to inconvenience.? This is where selective coordination will be important. And certainly I want to be able to see trip curves for AFCI devices or at least some other current characteristic curves that allow selective coordination thereby avoiding double tripping. But this then starts to get into a different realm of electrical engineering design and which is most often done in installations where cost of interruption is very high ( ie industrial and commercial settings).

@JohnThomas-lq5qp

Жыл бұрын

I used to have a brilliant Square D sales engineer sit at my table at IAEI classes. They used him for a guinea pig years ago. They had him install Square D AFCI breakers for every 120 volt circuit. He told me that no matter where he plugged in the vacuum cleaner it would trip the AFCI'S. Even after purchasing a new vacuum cleaner they still tripped. Excellent Square D engineers tweaked the AFCI breakers where the vacuum cleaner no longer tripped the AFCI circuit breakers. If they prevent fires & save lives we'll worth the money. Think the NEC should mandate them on flimsy office furniture built in power plug in receptacles. Some are well made and some are absolute garbage. Might want to add arc fault protection for office desks. Get scared when I look under some desk and they have a power strip feeding not only their desk but a second power strip plugged in to first strip to supply power in ajoining desk. Of course they all have computers, printers, some a fax machine and a coffee cup warmer, pencil sharpener, calculators etc.

@jovetj

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnThomas-lq5qp I want numbers. I want to see the figures that show that AFCIs have made a substantial difference in the last 20+ years. It's the results that matter, not hopes and wishes.

@JohnThomas-lq5qp

Жыл бұрын

At the IAEI 8 yearly classes one very intelligent well respected inspector would maybe once every few years go in a rant and say a lot of changes in the NEC are drive by lawyers.

@mathman0101

Жыл бұрын

@@jovetj take a look at the work of the NFPA, CPSC and US Fire administration on AFCIs. Many used to say the same thing about GFCIs/RCDs. Not saying there are no false trips but the idea behind it is ultimately about saving lives and yes some manufacturers maybe overselling the quality of their AFCIs and how they operate. What about surge protection or power quality not really life issues but equipment protection and efficiency issues also play a role and are starting to be important in the mind of many types of customers. Is that an industry oversell? You can make your own mind up.

@jovetj

Жыл бұрын

@@mathman0101 I have already stated the similarities in other comments on this video. I would love to look at the numbers provided by the NFPA, etc., or studies by third parties. I cannot find them.

Thanks for taking the time to make these videos for us. They’re Informative and we’ll presented. Tip for your viewers… spa disconnects come with a 50 or 60 amp GFCI breaker at a lower cost than buying the breaker separately. I’ll use those at the HVAC equipment for GFCI protection and the breaker at the panel for overcurrent protection. Especially since 2 pole 20 or 30amp GFCI breakers are turning into unicorns.

@jeffbower5525

Жыл бұрын

Most likely can't use a 50 or 60 amp spa disconnect as it will exceed the Max OCPD for the condenser.

@ChrisMeyersBigPickles222

Жыл бұрын

@@jeffbower5525 as long as the breaker feeding the spa panel is the right size,, it would be fine, no?

@jeffbower5525

Жыл бұрын

@@ChrisMeyersBigPickles222 no, the branch circuit OCPD can't exceed the MOCPD on the nameplate. If you install an OCPD after the breaker in the panel you have made that the panel breaker is not the branch circuit OCPD but rather a feeder OCPD. I'll look at verbiage when I get home but I'm pretty sure this is how it ends up working.

@ChrisMeyersBigPickles222

Жыл бұрын

No different than a 60 amp breaker feeding a sub panel with 100 amp Main

@jeffbower5525

Жыл бұрын

@@ChrisMeyersBigPickles222 You can't exceed the MOCPD rating (or 175% of the Motor compressor rated load current, whichever is greater) for the BRANCH CIRCUIT. If you use an OCPD at the disconnect the feeder OCPD value is irrelevant as part III of article 440 is for BRANCH CIRCUIT short circuit and ground fault protection. See 440.22(A) it specifically says branch circuit. So I am correct that you can't do this type install on the vast majority of the A/C installs.

Maybe 10 years ago at an IAEI class I questioned the instructor if heat build up with up to 40 AFCI in only a 14.5" wide panel will cause problems. Said UL tested panels with up to 80 AFCI circuit breakers and these was no problem with heat. Hard to imagine that if you have 80 very crowded #12 copper wires on both sides of a narrow panel. ( due to longer breakers ) that heat would build up.

@JMoney-ne3to

3 ай бұрын

If you've sized things correctly, WHERE'S THE HEAT coming from???

@JohnThomas-lq5qp

3 ай бұрын

@@JMoney-ne3to Heat is produced any time a lot of current carrying wires are ganged together plus these breakers produce some heat. The large hospital that I retired from we had to perform an IR scan with expensive FLIR cameras on the over 10,000 circuit breakers every year. GFCI bolt on 20 amp circuit breakers always ran 2 to 3 degrees hotter.

At this point, for dwelling units, it would be more straightforward to list the locations where GFCI is NOT required. I can think of a few, but they require AFCI, so at that point from a cost perspective, you might as well make all 120 and 240V circuits protected with combination AFCI / GFCI breakers.

Nice video... Would you do a video on tap rules..

@RyanJacksonElectrical

Жыл бұрын

I already did. Search "Ryan Jackson feeder taps."

I've been putting all GFCI receptacles in my own homes since the 90s. I used to use GFCI outlets because they are cheaper. Now I only use AFCI/GFCI breakers in my own homes. It's easier to go to one location to check and reset a circuit then to search behind beds or furniture for the first outlet on a circuit. It will also force you to address some existing wiring problems, if any. Usually its a neutral shared on more than one circuit. In that case the white neutral wire is often brown or even black from overheating.

@JohnQPublic345

Жыл бұрын

Don't you run out of positions on the neutral bar?

@Doug-gp2qw

Жыл бұрын

@@JohnQPublic345 It doesn't take any more spaces on the neutral bar. The circuit neutral goes to the breaker instead of neutral bar. Then the white wire from the breaker goes to the neutral bar. If you use a newer panel with a plug on neutral it reduces the number of wires going to the neutral bar.

@JohnQPublic345

Жыл бұрын

@@Doug-gp2qw oh yeah. I wasn't thinking

Great video, Nils !!😉👍

I cant wait to find 2P15A and 2P20A GFCI breakers for outdoor units.

ALL receps in the kitchen now includes the fridge! That's gonna result in people mad about spoiled food.

@neilbrookins8428

Жыл бұрын

Erik, it’s easy to add an alarm to the refrigerator gfci so that you can hear when the refrigerator looses power. I’ve done that and I can even get an alert on my phone when there is an issue. It cost me $4 to do this.

@miles9922

Жыл бұрын

@@neilbrookins8428 Can you tell me more about this phone notification thing?

@neilbrookins8428

Жыл бұрын

@@miles9922 there are multiple parts to the solution I’ve implemented. I don’t want to advertise a specific brand here so I’ll just say I used a WiFi Smart Plug with Energy Monitoring which is compatible with a free program called “home assistant”. Then, inside home assistant I created what’s called an automation. That has a trigger that looks for a specific behavior, in this case the trigger is watts below a specific threshold for a specific time period. Once that trigger criteria is satisfied, there is an action run. The action here is sending an alert to my phone. This can either be via the home assistant app on the phone or a different app called pushover.

@neilbrookins8428

Жыл бұрын

The same steps can also alert me to a door left open. When a door is open the refrigerator keeps running and never shuts off. So my automation in home assistant has a trigger that looks for watts above a threshold for a specific time duration. When this criteria is met it runs an action that sends an alert to my phone via notification feature in either home assistant app or using pushover.

@miles9922

Жыл бұрын

@@neilbrookins8428 Okay, a nifty setup for sure. I went with an alarmed GFCI for my sump, but doesn't help much if I'm out of the house... Might do something similar. Thanks!

To get around the aquarium issue I just use a #8 lug with a 1/4 20 bolt, lock washer, nut and #8 solid copper. The hard part is drilling the hole in the fish.

@MR-nl8xr

Жыл бұрын

I can only imagine, since they move around a lot and are slippery from being wet. Skip the drill, and just use a hammer next time.

Re the fan, you always install devices per the manufacturers instructions. And assume that they will include the ETL instructions.

Yes if the person is "cutting" it's technically preparation. Any short order cooking, such as a pasta/ action station - food that is made to order like an omelette. Even rolling sushi counts

@62Cristoforo

Жыл бұрын

These code writers think of everything, even sushi rolling 😜

I just need to extend a 20A branch circuit from one outbuilding to another (via new underground line) for the sake of adding some outlets in that second building. No water or wet conditions in either building. I'll probably make sure the first outlet in the first outbuilding is an AF/GFCI outlet, I'll use 12-gauge wiring (because of the 20A breaker), I'll probably use 20A outlets in the second outbuilding. I think I'm all set for that, with a little more reading up on whether I need the AFCI feature at all. Now I just need to figure out the whole grounding thing (find out how the existing branch circuit is grounded and if I need additional grounding measures on the extension or just extend the existing ground wire through the new outlets).

@jovetj

Жыл бұрын

Depending on distance, make sure your 12 AWG wire won't add too much voltage drop, too.

@Aaron_Lesse

Жыл бұрын

@@jovetj thank you. I was able to extend the two existing circuits and get everything hooked up and tested by an electrician who confirmed that the outlets at the ends of the circuits were drawing/providing 120v.

I replaced an old subpanel next to my main panel with a much bigger Siemens plug in neutral panel, and bought a collection of dual function breakers as well as a few GFCI and AFCI individual ones. I also moved some circuits from the main GE panel to the subpanel as the main panel was maxed out with half size breakers, all of which I removed and replaced the remaining circuits with DF breakers. What I have found is that none of my fridges or freezers (all relatively “quality” brands) like these GFCI breakers. Also my mitre saw cannot tolerate AFCI protection, but its ok with GFCI. So my question is “what, if anything, have appliance makers said or done about the compatibility of their products with these requirements?

@drewbrown9678

Жыл бұрын

Most all appliance techs will tell you to never install an appliance to a GFCI as explained in the installation manual….

@johnschroeder3072

Жыл бұрын

Part of the issue with GFCIs is that unlike RCDs (name used in the reset of the world) that are rated with a type (AC, A, B, F) which determines the types of loads it is compatible with. 'AC' type are only really suitable with resistive or motor type loads (probably the type that most GFCIs are), 'A' type can operate with AC or Pulsed DC (rectified ) loads which is fine for most general electronics loads, 'F' type RCD's can work with loads with single phase frequency drives or VSDs. It might be worthwhile doing some investigation into the type of GFCI you have and what is available to find something more appropriate. As far as your circular saw tripping the arc fault there are probably 2 options, 1 is better quality arc fault detection the other is to check the brushes in your saw as that may be arcing more than necessary and being detected as a fault.

Hey Ryan, When applying 215.2 (A) (1) (b) for a continuous load, would you do the 310.14 calculations based off 100% or 125% of the continuous load?

I guess if a window cannot be opened it is a fixed barrier?

@rupe53

Жыл бұрын

some inspectors will cut you slack on a window that does not open. (screwed, glued, or caulked shut)

At the 18:45 mark where you are talking about GFCI where the BUFFET Food is PREPARED at, I can see this like in a HOTEL setting that serves a full breakfast. And you are preparing your breakfast at the buffet. Awesome Instruction 👌

When I blow dry my hair, I often use the 2 prong in the exhaust fan and stand over the toilet while doing it. They should all be protected. - Home Inspector

@maxheadroom8857

Жыл бұрын

😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄😄

@jupiterblue3227

Жыл бұрын

Lmbo

Went from gfi for some outlets in kitchen and basement to all in kitchen and basement to afi/gfi circuit breakers. If you are starting to build a new house in 2023, there is not too much more cost and can be passed on to the buyer. If your elect was done in 2016 and you have to bring it up to 2017 and then 2020 and then 2023, it would cost money.

I feel so relieved that the future code hasn’t expanded GFCI protection to closets or walk-in closets. My walk-in closet has all my networking equipment. I recently hired an electrician to install a receptacle in my closet on a new circuit, which I later wired my two other existing receptacles to. The guy who gave me the estimate kept insisting on DF breaker instead of AFCI. He warned me that even though GFCI isn’t required in closets, it will be in the future. But the 2023 code hasn’t expanded it to closets, so I guess they wanted more money from me. Either way, my panel is Cutler Hammer which supports Eaton breakers and their AFCI only breakers aren’t readily available. So I guess Eaton has already made their move to DF everything

@jonsworld5307

Жыл бұрын

yep most have more money il just keep useing normal breakers beening do my own work i dont need no inspectons

Pretty soon instead of a main disco, there will be one GIANT GFCI outlet in an outdoor box. GFCI protected of course.

read 210.8(B)(4) again. it says, ".....provisions for FOOD SERVING, beverage serving, or cooking." Yes, that was a food serving area. Doesn't state whether it's self serving or staff serving. GFCI required.

This may be borderline but: in (4) buffet serving areas - does the buffet structure include ice wells to hold bottled beverages that may be uncorked and poured at the buffet structure? P.S. Thanks for a great video.

This is going to make the price of a job go up think about now how many more of those breakers you're going to need

Depending on which state, city, or county you're in all this may or may not apply. If the jurisdiction chooses not to enforce the all of the NEC code AND SOME DO NOT, then it doesn't matter

@panelpal111

10 ай бұрын

😂

@kenevans6382

10 ай бұрын

@@panelpal111 Thats just the way it is.....if the local municipality chooses NOT to adopt any part of the NEC it is NOT enforced.....

I probably won't buy the 2023 NEC anytime soon. In my state (Ohio) hasn't even adopted the 2020 NEC. And there is no date as of yet when it will adopt it. But in Massachusetts (the "do-good" state) the 2023 NEC will come into force right on the first of January 2023.

@theodorgiosan2570

7 ай бұрын

Yeah the code in MA sucks. And they added more stuff that isn't even in the regular version. It's ridiculous.

Rule the thumb we use here if you can reach a sink with a 6' cord plugged into the receptacle the receptacle it's needing GFCI

@jovetj

Жыл бұрын

Why stop at 6 feet? Why isn't it 8? Or 9? Or 10?

I'm an electrical contractor in MN and received an email last fall from of my electrical inspectors with an attachment from NFPA (2023 addition) stating: Reference: 210.8(F) and Exception No. 2 (new)TIA 23-3 1. Revised paragraph 210.8(F) to read as follows: 210.8(F) Outdoor Outlets. (...I'll skip down to Exception 2. ) Exception 2. GFCI protection shall not be required for listed HVAC equipment. This exception shall expire September 1, 2026. Issue Date : August 12, 2022 Effective Date: September 1, 2022

Guessing as with all other changes it primarily applies to new construction or remodels, but you mentioned in an example on a multi family dwelling where an AC unit needed to be replaced then the circuit would need to be upgraded to GFCI protection. Does that apply to all appliances? If say, for example, an over-the-range microwave has to be replaced, do you have to upgrade so the outlet is GFCI protected? It's not really a remodel, but it is in a loose definition a built in appliance.

@RyanJacksonElectrical

Жыл бұрын

No.

@drewbrown9678

Жыл бұрын

Microwaves Are cord and plug. Do you have to upgrade a range or dryer outlet to 4 prong when you buy a new dryer or range?

win·dow noun. an opening in the wall or roof of a building or vehicle that is fitted with glass or other transparent material in a frame to admit light or air and allow people to see out.

@RyanJacksonElectrical

Жыл бұрын

All NFPA documents defer to the 11th edition of Merriam-Webster if not defined in the actual standard. A window DOES NOT need to contain glass or any other material.

The cost of so many rules is paid by all of us. The additional protection to human life is not worth the total cost to the economy. The fact that life has infinite value is not true. The real thing is the money the factories that make breakers pay to create this rules is enormus. This special breakers are so expensive that is great for those companies that you are forced to buy them. This helps to make houses so expensive that every day people find it almost imposible to buy a house

I’m surprised that ice makers don’t need GFCI. Some have both water supplies and drains.

@maxheadroom8857

Жыл бұрын

That will change soon; make note of the new kitchen rule for 2023: all outlets must have GFCI Protection now. Fridges will be on those circuits. New fridges are better made to not trip GFCIs easily. My garage freezer is on a retrofitted GFCI circuit. It's on NEC code for 1955, but fitted with a new GFCI outlet protecting the whole garage.

@johnhaller5851

Жыл бұрын

@@maxheadroom8857 My point was really that room function and the appliance that's in it aren't necessarily correlated. A hardwired ice maker may or may not be considered in a kitchen. Ice makers with a cord should be required to have a GFCI in the cord, or any room with water or drain should be considered a kitchen. I was really talking about the ice maker in the video, which was a commercial ice maker, and apparently not required to be on a GFCI. There was an interesting video on the Studpack channel about a refrigerator with ice maker being connected. The person installing it was thrown across the room. The metal box had no ground going to the box, and had no strain relief, and the insulation on the hot wire had rubbed out, making the box hot. It did have a 3 prong outlet, but since the box was hot, the ground plug on the refrigerator was hot. He grabbed the copper water line and the refrigerator, and was sent across the room. If the GFCI had been in the refrigerator plug like hairdryers, the shock would have been much shorter. I think too much emphasis is on the receptacle, and not enough on the appliance. With old appliances and old receptacles, having both minimizes having no GFCI. I'm certainly not retrofitting my refrigerator outlet.

accessible or not, most folks don't know what the buttons even do, and heaven forbid you put it on a breaker in the panel, my experience most folks don't even know where their panel is, I've had to teach so many people how to reset GFCI outlets and breakers. Always happy to do it, but amazed at really how many people just don't know, or care.

That is EXACTLY the way Leviton sees it. Their breakers all seem to be dual function. Maybe you brought it up in the video, I kind of jumped the gun there.

But questions I got if you have a older home that don't have them like a 70 's home do I need update or only if I make a major remodel then have to do it and does apply for older Apts to

Maybe we should start doing it like the EU where they have 30mA GFCI protection on the entire house

Though supply chain issues are a huge impediment currently when trying to meet these requirements, I have to agree with most. The proliferation of electronic control and switching in utilization equipment is what has driven this. The failure modes of the electronics leads to the necessity for proper bonding and fault protection. AFCI protection is still problematic with electronic control equipment. The original goal of preventing fires due to arcing appliance and extension cords was largely remedied with the receptacle spacing requirements years ago. Failed semiconductors are the big issue now.

So will ac on commercial build that are 208v 40a now need a gfci breaker. Or do this apply to residential dwellings

Are swamp coolers required to be GFCI protected?

RV recpticals for most cases are a problem if GFCI protected as most older RV's have neutral and ground bonded due to having a generator. Does this requirement mean the RV has to be rewired with a unbonded neutral?

@jonsworld5307

Жыл бұрын

it means stop reading the codes and wire it why people have for 100 years no one died yet lol

In your 210.8(B) example with the icemaker, I would argue conservatively that the stainless(conductive) sink table and the icemaker is the relevant measurement. Perhaps even the stainless(conductive) cabinet it sits on. (3 inches?) Another question: these changes seem to include EVSE equipment, which often include GFCI internally. True? Great video, thanks!

@garbo8962

9 ай бұрын

While on stainless steel or any other kitchen sink made from metal a continuing education class instructor/inspector said that all kitchen sink that have Pvc drain, PEX water supply and no garbage disposal must be have sink grounded. Been years since I saw a house without a garbage disposal but a guy that I did work for and owns over a dozen old rental houses a lastly a remove the garbage disposals because of too many problems.

In your interpretation, does a readily accessible disconnect for a future AC in a dwelling require GFCI since you don’t consider it the outlet? Does the outlet not exist if the AC is not installed?

ryan, does code prohibit just throwing everything (short of life safety stuff like required egress lighting, sump pump, etc) behind a gfci main breaker?

@RyanJacksonElectrical

Жыл бұрын

No.

Fastest way to shut down a GFCI wired house is to plug in a Tesla coil. The RF ground on the secondary is connected to earth ground. The GFCI will sense the RF on the ground and trip. The pickup of the RF on other GFCI wiring acting as antennas will also cause tripping of those circuits. Even the GFCI in the Gas Tube Transformers is a problem. So if your hobby is Tesla coil or other HV device building, you can not have GFCI in the house.

How about 3 phase branch circuits in a dwelling unit? In my area high leg and 120/208 residential services are not uncommon, which means you have both a leg over 150v to ground and the capability for multi phase branch circuits. If, in a house with 3 phase, you ran a 3 phase circuit to the stove, installed a NEMA 18-50 if a wye service, or splice box if delta, and then put a cord on the stove with only single phase hooked up to a 18-50 plug or hardwired to the splice box with a single phase whip, would that really bypass the requirement for GFCI protection on that circuit? Same with cooktops, ovens, etc. If 3 phase was ran to the electrical box, and only single phase went out to the appliance, would that bypass the GFCI requirement?