Lafite 2023 future is $520, down from $760 for 2022 future, $830 for 2020, $1000 for 2019. With oversupply in a weakening market, I believe that you are correct - the premium wine market has a tough road ahead.
@jakopete1
2 ай бұрын
What would be the cost per bottle producing Lafite? 20€ the most, so they will still make good profit don't worry. When I was young in the late 80's the release price of a Lafite was around 80€ so that would be 6-10 times the price of a Cru bourgeoise wine of good quality. Today that is 50 times, and the cost of producing can not justify that rise at all. The second wine back then was 15€ (Carruades) and is today 200€ . They can afford to cut prices down 75% and still make a lot of money. So as a buyer, stay cool and wait,
@Ruirspirul
2 ай бұрын
I wonder if prices are actually getting lower and lower because of quality of vintages… its been absolute downfall after 2020 and we would not know it, since big name journalists vintage ratings are absolute scam.
@mjpc52262 ай бұрын
Love the videos. Thanks
@50somethinglawyer2 ай бұрын
A curious combination of "entrepreneur" and "en primeur" there! Some significant discounts for the 2023 but that's on the back of absurd price rises over the last few years. Is it enough? I've bought a half case of Pontet-Canet but that's me done for 2023. I'm out and will spend the cash I'd otherwise earmarked for en primeur 2023 on back vintages.
@ronmcmartin4513
Ай бұрын
I purchased 6 Batailley at 40% lower price than 2022(with only a "10%" drop in quality from the average of all pro critics). I have/will buy 3 of some 375ml if the price is right.
@John-sg9fz2 ай бұрын
Agree. Greedy Bordeaux producers have destroyed mkt after 2022 pricing. Not touching Bordeaux EP again. Once bitten, twice shy
@StogieTribe2 ай бұрын
For some these wines under $50 that offer good value for money, would you be buying these 2022/2023 futures over the 2019/2020 releases etc, which are around the same price or a few dollars cheaper in most cases compared to the 2022 futures pricing? I’m not as knowledgeable in this realm but I’m skeptical about these new vintages but it’s also hard to ignore the hype of 2022 and the 20-30% price cut of the 2023
@winemoneysong
2 ай бұрын
2019 & 2020 are excellent vintages with earlier drinkability. The extra age in the bottle is a big plus.
@John-sg9fz2 ай бұрын
2022 is not relevant comp as stock not sold. Should compare 2023 pricing to 2019 ie despite big cuts the 2023 is over priced and will not sell
@winemoneysong
2 ай бұрын
2022 stock was sold last year futures (didn’t sell well) 2023’s are hitting the futures mkt. now.
@matthiasschairer64562 ай бұрын
Leoville Las Cases is 40% down to 2022
@winemoneysong
2 ай бұрын
The Las Cases 2022 pricing I thought to be very excessive is now followed by a big decrease for the 2023’s. I guess they admit their error from last year. The question is at $180 is LLC a value (no doubt about the quality).
@roeffaersmichel79712 ай бұрын
The market is collapsing!
@John-sg9fz2 ай бұрын
I always listen to Tom who calls a spade a spade. Dodgy logo but great content
@johntelford96112 ай бұрын
2014 is a very good vintage. What are you talking about! Comparing to 17 and 21 is a joke!
@winemoneysong
2 ай бұрын
2014 has some very good wines from Cabernet Sauvignon on the left bank but the 2014’s are very drinkable now. A middling vintage. While 2017 and 2021’s are comparable in that both years had frost problems in the spring leading to a small somewhat dilute crop. The strongest wines are on the left bank where Cabernet Sauvignon excelled. The two things that the three vintages (2014,2017,2021) have in common are they are early maturing and Bordeaux can’t give them away. You may like one vintage over the other but the market has decided they don’t care about them (no matter what the ratings say). I miss spoke comparing the 21s & 23s.
@ronmcmartin4513
Ай бұрын
2014 is a Good(not Very Good) vintage. 2021 got a small boost from most pro wine critics. 2012 & 2014 are comparable(Drink Up!) I just had a 2017 Moulin du Cadet(Rt Bank. 93+ Avg from pro critics. Wine Advocate 95???). BIG hole in the middle, and why I don't buy off-vintages. Still primary, but I don't think it will get better, just different. 90-Points for me, over the course of 1 hour, no decant, but open without the cork. Increased chalky tannins(overly macerated?) at the end. 2023--A vintage for Beginning Collectors. Don't go Nuts, 3 bottles of a couple of Chateaux, in each Appellation(NO 1st or 2nds). STRICT Selection, & PROPER storage.
@welshtoro32562 ай бұрын
Good video. Yep, the Chinese market has collapsed and it's the same all over the world. Top end Bordeaux is the domain of millionaires interested in wine. The vast majority of the wine loving middle class are tightening their belts. Furthermore, as has been observed on this channel, people are loosing interest in wine at an alarming rate. When I'm in France, Spain and Italy I see tables of beer and the odd wine bottle. If restaurants buy this stuff they'll struggle to sell it. The mark up for restaurant wine is so obscene in the U.K that people just drink beer when they eat out. At the same time as all of this going on the producers in Bordeaux are churning out even more wine. One thing I've become more and more aware of is how many wine lovers just aren't interested in Bordeaux wines any more. The price/quality return is terrible. We have access to great wines from all over the world these days and many buyers are interested in trying out different regions and grape varieties. I buy wine from specialist shops which have hunted down really interesting wines and offer great value. We also want flexibility. Having to buy by the case is so out of date. There's still a market for that old fashioned, Bordeaux by the case, style but it is diminishing with the ageing demographic. Young people aren't interested in wine, especially this kind of wine and they don't want to wait a lifetime to open a bottle. The prices are terrible and there is very good wine elsewhere which offer much better value.
@robertfenti39962 ай бұрын
Isn't the Baby Boomer Crowd is almosst non existent in the future's market
@ronmcmartin4513
Ай бұрын
Perhaps Half Bottles, since they'll be dead by the time 2019 750ml are ready to drink.
@piffpaff14822 ай бұрын
I came to the conclusion, that there is no value in wine above 100 €. In the end wine is fermented grape juice. If money plays no role, you could go above just for fun or to satisfy your ego. In the end spending money always is an investment. To me makes no sense spending all the money in wine. Just my personal opinion.
@ronmcmartin4513
Ай бұрын
I somewhat agree, because I'm a Quality-to-Price Ratio(QPR) buyer. I'd rather have a 97-point(shorthand) for $80, than 98-point $300 wine. HOWEVER, I'm just like the Rich; I'm not interested in an 87-point wine for $10(or ANY price), for the same reason that the Rich buy 99-point wines for $500+.
Пікірлер: 24
Lafite 2023 future is $520, down from $760 for 2022 future, $830 for 2020, $1000 for 2019. With oversupply in a weakening market, I believe that you are correct - the premium wine market has a tough road ahead.
@jakopete1
2 ай бұрын
What would be the cost per bottle producing Lafite? 20€ the most, so they will still make good profit don't worry. When I was young in the late 80's the release price of a Lafite was around 80€ so that would be 6-10 times the price of a Cru bourgeoise wine of good quality. Today that is 50 times, and the cost of producing can not justify that rise at all. The second wine back then was 15€ (Carruades) and is today 200€ . They can afford to cut prices down 75% and still make a lot of money. So as a buyer, stay cool and wait,
@Ruirspirul
2 ай бұрын
I wonder if prices are actually getting lower and lower because of quality of vintages… its been absolute downfall after 2020 and we would not know it, since big name journalists vintage ratings are absolute scam.
Love the videos. Thanks
A curious combination of "entrepreneur" and "en primeur" there! Some significant discounts for the 2023 but that's on the back of absurd price rises over the last few years. Is it enough? I've bought a half case of Pontet-Canet but that's me done for 2023. I'm out and will spend the cash I'd otherwise earmarked for en primeur 2023 on back vintages.
@ronmcmartin4513
Ай бұрын
I purchased 6 Batailley at 40% lower price than 2022(with only a "10%" drop in quality from the average of all pro critics). I have/will buy 3 of some 375ml if the price is right.
Agree. Greedy Bordeaux producers have destroyed mkt after 2022 pricing. Not touching Bordeaux EP again. Once bitten, twice shy
For some these wines under $50 that offer good value for money, would you be buying these 2022/2023 futures over the 2019/2020 releases etc, which are around the same price or a few dollars cheaper in most cases compared to the 2022 futures pricing? I’m not as knowledgeable in this realm but I’m skeptical about these new vintages but it’s also hard to ignore the hype of 2022 and the 20-30% price cut of the 2023
@winemoneysong
2 ай бұрын
2019 & 2020 are excellent vintages with earlier drinkability. The extra age in the bottle is a big plus.
2022 is not relevant comp as stock not sold. Should compare 2023 pricing to 2019 ie despite big cuts the 2023 is over priced and will not sell
@winemoneysong
2 ай бұрын
2022 stock was sold last year futures (didn’t sell well) 2023’s are hitting the futures mkt. now.
Leoville Las Cases is 40% down to 2022
@winemoneysong
2 ай бұрын
The Las Cases 2022 pricing I thought to be very excessive is now followed by a big decrease for the 2023’s. I guess they admit their error from last year. The question is at $180 is LLC a value (no doubt about the quality).
The market is collapsing!
I always listen to Tom who calls a spade a spade. Dodgy logo but great content
2014 is a very good vintage. What are you talking about! Comparing to 17 and 21 is a joke!
@winemoneysong
2 ай бұрын
2014 has some very good wines from Cabernet Sauvignon on the left bank but the 2014’s are very drinkable now. A middling vintage. While 2017 and 2021’s are comparable in that both years had frost problems in the spring leading to a small somewhat dilute crop. The strongest wines are on the left bank where Cabernet Sauvignon excelled. The two things that the three vintages (2014,2017,2021) have in common are they are early maturing and Bordeaux can’t give them away. You may like one vintage over the other but the market has decided they don’t care about them (no matter what the ratings say). I miss spoke comparing the 21s & 23s.
@ronmcmartin4513
Ай бұрын
2014 is a Good(not Very Good) vintage. 2021 got a small boost from most pro wine critics. 2012 & 2014 are comparable(Drink Up!) I just had a 2017 Moulin du Cadet(Rt Bank. 93+ Avg from pro critics. Wine Advocate 95???). BIG hole in the middle, and why I don't buy off-vintages. Still primary, but I don't think it will get better, just different. 90-Points for me, over the course of 1 hour, no decant, but open without the cork. Increased chalky tannins(overly macerated?) at the end. 2023--A vintage for Beginning Collectors. Don't go Nuts, 3 bottles of a couple of Chateaux, in each Appellation(NO 1st or 2nds). STRICT Selection, & PROPER storage.
Good video. Yep, the Chinese market has collapsed and it's the same all over the world. Top end Bordeaux is the domain of millionaires interested in wine. The vast majority of the wine loving middle class are tightening their belts. Furthermore, as has been observed on this channel, people are loosing interest in wine at an alarming rate. When I'm in France, Spain and Italy I see tables of beer and the odd wine bottle. If restaurants buy this stuff they'll struggle to sell it. The mark up for restaurant wine is so obscene in the U.K that people just drink beer when they eat out. At the same time as all of this going on the producers in Bordeaux are churning out even more wine. One thing I've become more and more aware of is how many wine lovers just aren't interested in Bordeaux wines any more. The price/quality return is terrible. We have access to great wines from all over the world these days and many buyers are interested in trying out different regions and grape varieties. I buy wine from specialist shops which have hunted down really interesting wines and offer great value. We also want flexibility. Having to buy by the case is so out of date. There's still a market for that old fashioned, Bordeaux by the case, style but it is diminishing with the ageing demographic. Young people aren't interested in wine, especially this kind of wine and they don't want to wait a lifetime to open a bottle. The prices are terrible and there is very good wine elsewhere which offer much better value.
Isn't the Baby Boomer Crowd is almosst non existent in the future's market
@ronmcmartin4513
Ай бұрын
Perhaps Half Bottles, since they'll be dead by the time 2019 750ml are ready to drink.
I came to the conclusion, that there is no value in wine above 100 €. In the end wine is fermented grape juice. If money plays no role, you could go above just for fun or to satisfy your ego. In the end spending money always is an investment. To me makes no sense spending all the money in wine. Just my personal opinion.
@ronmcmartin4513
Ай бұрын
I somewhat agree, because I'm a Quality-to-Price Ratio(QPR) buyer. I'd rather have a 97-point(shorthand) for $80, than 98-point $300 wine. HOWEVER, I'm just like the Rich; I'm not interested in an 87-point wine for $10(or ANY price), for the same reason that the Rich buy 99-point wines for $500+.