I call it positive procrastination: Instead of doing things done in my house, I choose to educate myself about conscientiousness...

@bzwaxmanga4344

Жыл бұрын

he called it in one of his pinocchio lectures, productive procrastination and he said it also has many downsides; and to solve that you need to build an inhibitory ciruit like addicts would;(because you cannot delete already built circuits); and/or new positive associations with antidepresive medication(or without).

@DaiseyChaneMusic

19 күн бұрын

You aren’t learning anything

"I wouldn't be concerned with the slides, because I'm gonna edit them in." 9:10 My orderliness is freaking out mr. Peterson!

@nulifidianpos9089

7 жыл бұрын

Ups1dedomn - Holy crap I just had this same thought. Haha.

@tylermcnally9931

6 жыл бұрын

Where are the slide edits!?

@geoffreyharris5682

6 жыл бұрын

Liberals are just not that orderly.

@MrMaximum91

6 жыл бұрын

His room was likely not very clean when he uploaded

Holy shit i love orderliness, although im such a lazy bastard, just seeing people being lined up so perfectly warms my heart.

@michaelanderson2385

4 жыл бұрын

Wat I

@sethchristofer4769

3 жыл бұрын

Clean your room bucko! ;)

@OmarDelawar

3 жыл бұрын

I'll be watching you Mr. Orderly....you may be the next Hitler lol

@Matheus16905

3 жыл бұрын

Lazy bastards are the cancer of the contemporary post-industrial body

How thoughtful towards his students, this guy just astounds me!

As I've aged (now 53), I find myself much more conscientious now than say, my 20's.

@MrGflan

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Thomas. I wonder if that has to do with greater responsibilities and tasks that we take on as we age. I certainly did much better in grad school than in community college and undergrad. I wonder if it is more that you adapted to these things or if it’s that your trait grew. Who knows, it’s interesting. I’ve noticed myself the same though. My wife is the complete opposite and it causes us conflict sometimes because of it.

@thomasadkins3743

3 жыл бұрын

Gary, I believe you've nailed it. Great points! Thank you!

@MrGflan

3 жыл бұрын

Thomas Adkins my pleasure. I tell you, I think I’ve learned more from these lectures than I did at the far leftist universities I’ve attended lol. I really enjoy learning about the personalities and it’s helping me understand things that people do a lot better.

@Matheus16905

3 жыл бұрын

I'm 22 now and hope it happens to me too

@alexmcgregor2854

3 жыл бұрын

You misunderstand the psychological definition of conscientious. Core traits rarely change in any measurable way.

I'm really excited to see what kind of effect is Covid-19 is going to have according to the theory of relationship between infectious disease & Authoritarian rule.

@jensonphan

2 жыл бұрын

And it appears he is right, the government has taken mandatory steps for people to not be allowed to congregate in specific quanties, in specific regions, while having the requirement to plaster on tools(masks), or else criminal acts are placed, and that you are socially barred from entering establishments.

@BM-qr9td

2 жыл бұрын

I'd go as far to say the perpetrators of the Pandemic Hysteria are very aware of the relationship between infectious disease and authoritarian rule.

@DaNewport55

2 жыл бұрын

After watching this, my mind definitely began to elicit conspiracy theories.

@christianityisunstoppable4155

2 жыл бұрын

Looks like leftists are disgust sensitive and authoritarian this time around.

@snakejazz

2 жыл бұрын

This aged well.

I'm cleaning my house while listening to this for motivation... Need to work on my conscientiousness. I'm far too good at putting up with my own mess.

@matthewbrennan3127

6 жыл бұрын

Clean your room

@mahamirza2388

3 жыл бұрын

True.

Perhaps conscientiousness is related to how you behave when nobody is watching and that is why it is hard to "view" in the lab.

@gary_michael_flanagan_wildlife

3 ай бұрын

Interesting insight. I know a lot of us who are conscientious are not as happy. We don’t enjoy doing the work, we just have to. And we don’t well tolerate those that want to sit around and waste time. It’s hereditary I think. My family is all like that. For me, I am extroverted in a lot of ways and can make people laugh a lot and can kind of turn on that outgoing fun circuit. But I also strangely love my alone time and need to get away too. So I am a bit of a mess. But I am very regimented with my diet and schedule and I’m continuously perfect my art of wildlife photography. Always striving for a better angle and composition. Probably orderly. I’m also very judgmental unfortunately to a fault. Disgust sensitive too. But ironically I am pretty compassionate sometimes as well and love helping people. I just judge those I love harshly sometimes and I’m trying to work on this. My family is a lot this way. Blunt and harsh. But still great people.

@benjaminkelble4021

Ай бұрын

like the psychological slit experiment.

@kenhaynie706

4 күн бұрын

@@benjaminkelble4021 Hahaha- well said!

This lecture is so insightful. I see many of the traits outlined in this lecture in myself.

This is the most humble that I've seen him.

Never have I so eloquently heard a pimp described: “Someone living off the fruits of prostitution.” This man is an international treasure.

As people mature their conscientiousness and agreeableness increase.

Sums up the entire class in the first three minutes by asking the class their opinion about something, classic ❤️ I learn from you in so many ways & crazy how much implementing different methods of being into your personality, especially ones you admire can have such an upward momentum in life

He's so good it breaks my heart! I feel like i ll never be surrounded by such people, as family, friends, colleagues or professors.. this competence is so rare or expensive that i can only have it on youtube.. well at least it's on youtube Thank you doctor Peterson! Get well and get back we need you!

@JeffMTX

5 ай бұрын

You ever look at meetup?

@HayfaZlitni

5 ай бұрын

what's that? @@JeffMTX

@JeffMTX

5 ай бұрын

@@HayfaZlitni ah I see you’re in Tunisia. Have you found some good likeminded people since your comment from 2 years ago?

@HayfaZlitni

5 ай бұрын

@@JeffMTX actually I have, a year and eight months ago I met a brilliant Tunisian author who's as intrigued in science and the human mind as I am, and I boyfriended the **** out of him!! But I still hope for myself to find an entire community, where we can discuss and talk and read and learn..infinitely! When one has the time, of course :)

@JeffMTX

5 ай бұрын

@@HayfaZlitni awesome!!! Your persistence paid off!!! I’m in Texas USA, glad to make your acquaintance!!!

I wish I had you as my Prof during grad and undergrad, but hey, got to watch your videos, amazing!

This is one of the most important videos I have ever seen, thank your so much for your devotion to knowledge and wisdom

Thank you for helping me understand myself and have the conviction to stand up to those that make me feel like I should be like them

This man is a world treasure.

I've watched almost every lecture you've posted in YT and this one and is the one that just blew me away like guns, germs and steel. This discovery is just revolutionary, some channels should create a documentary around this idea!

@stevens7047

7 жыл бұрын

Daniel Robert Prieto Germs Guns and Steel isn't really a well regarded text, though...

@oiausdlkasuldhflaksjdhoiausydo

7 жыл бұрын

Really? I know constructivists hate it but apart from them, what other critiques there are? I'd like to read about those. Tx.

@stevens7047

7 жыл бұрын

Daniel Robert Prieto In Nicholas Wade's book "A troublesome inheritance" he criticises (softly) Diamond's denial of the role of genes in making certain societies more adapted to certain environments. Most powerful criticism I've read is by Niall Ferguson (forget where sorry) who points out that geography hasn't changed but historical events have still occurred over the last few thousand years and prosperity has fluctuated between culture and nations. GGS is essentially a "just-so" story.

@oiausdlkasuldhflaksjdhoiausydo

7 жыл бұрын

Steven Beven mmm that's super interesting! TX. Yeah, it's true diamond seems a bit apologetic and it goes out of his way to deny genetics but in any case, there are interesting ideas in his reasoning

They were the incarnation of conscientiousness through appeals to order, industry, authority, conformity, duty, responsibility to and devotion to the country etc.

Thank you for posting your work. It has made a huge impact on my life.

this is one of the best lectures till now (chronologically)

more video lectures! Love the stuff you cover.

NOOOO I'VE CAUGHT UP!!! These are great! Haha let us have the other lecture!! Integrating the slides with the lectures (splitting the screen) is a super convenient way to get to see a high quality lecturer as well as the slides. Alternatively I've been using 2 monitors, both seem to work.

Lol on Jordan Peterson big five test, I got extremely low consciousness. Well I wasn't planning to do anything anyway

@faustianrevival3816

4 жыл бұрын

Same here. I was mediocre to low on everything except I had medium high neuroticism. I will just have to put those results away into my shadow and carry on trying to do the best I can with what I have lol.

@MrGflan

3 жыл бұрын

Your lack of conscienceousness disgusts me. LOL!!

@sethchristofer4769

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I got 5th percentile and 69th on Neuroticism. Regardless, my life is surprising meaningful thanks to Peterson.

This entire lecture was quite informative. Excellent work.

Thanks Professor! U of T faculty and students seem very sharp! - UBC Alum

I have never in my 17 years of existence seen students of a teacher(professor Jordan B. Peterson in this case) applaud them for their lecture in what appears to be a performance teetering on the edge of entertaining intellectual stimulus. It is just amazing and very rare for me to see it in such a voluntary way, and not in a 'forced' manner like how you might have to clap after a performance knowing if you didn't, you would be seen as disrespectfulful.

@jensonphan

2 жыл бұрын

Usually, from my personal experience, my peers would usually pack up early right 5 minute before the bell, but in this case, I only hear the clattering of pencils and notebooks after Peterson anounced the ending of his lecture.

@JeffMTX

5 ай бұрын

There’s a level of mutual respect in most college lectures. But I’m an engineer, not much experience in liberal arts classrooms

There is a fine line between orderliness and neuroticism.

it would make sense that people who are conscientious are not neurotic, because their life is highly structured with a clear path they’re conditioned to follow. Conditioning is still conditioning. Routines are not personality traits. Addictive behavior is still addictive behavior. It would also make sense that people who are conscientious are more avoidant of failure. Students with high marks tend to show greater belief that something bad will happen to them if they fail. Students who fail can become desensitized, or even become more avoidant of circumstances that have hurt them, rather than proactive with long conditioned reward. One year someone is in school, working out every day, and in a routine. One year someone is in the military and constantly fulfilling obligations 24/7. The next year they’ve dropped out or gone inactive, and they’re unemployed and drinking. This is like thinking depression is entirely in someone’s head and completely unrelated to life circumstances. It’s very easy for something like depression to lead to a feedback loop. Same thing with a steady routine. It’s when people’s lives are thrown into disarray that things change drastically that needs to be considered, as well as what it means to adapt and radically change conditioned behavior.

I fell asleep to this video, I wake up to Nazis and Peterson saying "You get the picture." WTF?

@gifctdotorgthought-police3706

3 жыл бұрын

That's so messed up. lol

I am high on "Conscientiousness" and also high on "Openness" which is an oxymoron if you think about it. I love order and creativity. Those two traits usually don't go very well together. It kind of feels like I am arguing with myself lol

@curtisjackson5793

3 жыл бұрын

that's because you're measuring only the traits level, which can lead to apparent contradictions, that are solved when you use the aspect level. See www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

@karyonemos

3 жыл бұрын

That's what Peterson described, people high in both traits will always be at odds with themselves because they like to have things in order and in fixed categories, but there openness will make them look for new ways as well. Unfortunately, I failed to retrieve where that was.

When I was young I considered myself "conservative." I no longer feel like the word fits, and Peterson's words here reinforce that. I'm not xenophobic, per se. I'm not anti-gay. Etc. Turns out that what I am is "pro-individual freedom." The more control each person has over the choices of his or her life, and the less control the "State" or the "community" or whatever has, the better I like it. This just seems to cut completely across the political spectrum - in some ways today's left seems to be more supportive of individual freedom, but in some ways their attitude toward the importance of the State is absolutely NOT compatible with the sort of individual freedom I want. My sense about the primary standing political groups these days is that the left is too much in favor of Big Government, and the right, even though they use a lot of words that resonate with me (i.e., "freedom words"), in the end they wind up being too supportive of large corporations to suit me. Big companies manipulating me and trashing my rights is no better than big government doing so. So, I feel like the very scheme we use to categorize political beliefs these days just doesn't work well for me - it leaves me not fitting anywhere. I wish we had a third party, or third group, that was about "each individual person," as opposed to being about "the people." My opinion is that you can't even talk about freedom properly unless your focus is at the individual level - this whole business of thinking about us all as being part of this or that group just isn't healthy as far as I can tell.

@irone93

4 жыл бұрын

KipIngram I agree wholeheartedly. I’m very low in Orderliness yet am conservative. I Love Jorden but I think he is oversimplifing political philosophy

@KipIngram

4 жыл бұрын

@@irone93 I'd like to think that perhaps we over-simplify Jordan; surely what he means by these statements is that there are *tendencies* toward those traits following each other. Political beliefs are hugely complex, I think.

@angelorpinheiro

4 жыл бұрын

If you think that "being part of this or that group just isn't healthy", why you say: "I wish we had a third party, or third group, that was about 'each individual person'"??

@KipIngram

4 жыл бұрын

@@angelorpinheiro Oh, well, because clearly our political system requires a party basis to achieve victory. Yes - you make a good point. NO parties would be even better. But there seems to be a dynamic in our politics that leads to them. If you waved a wand and eliminated the parties, they'd immediately begin reforming. That would actually be an interesting experiment, because you might find they didn't reform in exactly the same mix of positions. I think a huge part of our two party dynamic is that the parties must find one another ***100%*** objectionable. Agreement on any issue is just not allowed. That's what fuels the polarization. The problem with two parties, particularly, is that the gravitate toward the extremes. Add a third party and it would necessarily have to seek the middle. And it couldn't possibly be as polarized as in our two party system, because the main two parties have already staked out the "fully polarized" positions. A third party would have to be more accepting of a diversity of positions, and that's what would make it better.

@sethchristofer4769

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. The Libertarian Party's main focus is on individual freedom. After all the individual is the smallest minority.

It would be very interesting to learn about physiological responses (that are linked to political preferences) shifting though time for the same person. And also what would be the causes for those shifts, and if they would indicate shifts in political preferences.

This is so fascinating... I’m curious though because in the light of Covid, it seemed as though every person claiming it was a lie/ refusing to wear a mask seemed to lean more conservative... curious if anyone else also had this experience?

@bobbygracemm2478

3 жыл бұрын

I noticed the same thing. The political landscape is more divided on the line state-individual action as opposed to individual freedom. So-called liberals are people who count on the state to "clean the house" for them (low industriousness) and lazily want to do whatever they want (low industriousness). This is exactly what covid lockdowns allow them to do

@seniorfrog693

2 жыл бұрын

OP made a good point. But I think it happened because conservatives didn't believe covid was a strong disease to begin with

It really is crazy how if you go far enough back he starts making sense

They are not solving the problem because they are looking in the wrong place. This is a condition in which one makes emotional decisions as in ocd. The key issue is whether they are more disgusted by filth, messes, chaos, inefficiency and failure/ like cleanliness/neatness/order/efficiency/success/respect or are more bothered by having to make an effort.

Pretty interesting stuff.

Dr. Peterson - Could you please provide your analysis of Elliot Rodger and what we need to learn from this tragedy ? Thank you.

Watching this in the midst of the covid pandemic is very unsettling.

This is literally what I'm writing my book about at 5:26. Virtues are a singularity and specific description of an array of inclinations/actions/reactions, and any one of them can become the opposite of a virtue if over-asserted. For instance Honor became pigheadedness as the honorable victims of the gulags, even those who were absolute supporters of the Communist system, refused to admit that their situation was unjust.

@AchillesThePeacemaker

6 жыл бұрын

46:22 This is a theory I've come to on my own, certainly through the inspiration of your psychological knowledge, but I find it very affirmational that one of my major concepts of our new societal status quo is supported by your direct data. Simply put; now that we have the technological and societal abilities/understandings to thwart past problems like disease; we have a lesser need for conservative behavior because we've solved the conditions which promoted the conservative nature. If there's less danger in having sex; due to contraception, condoms which can prevent some disease transfer, and cures to many STD's. Therefore the liberal attitude towards sex has emerged; one less reason not to have casual sex gone, one more reason to indulge in casual sex. The danger lies in everything else that is changed by this new behavior which is un-explored. The lessening of the institution of marriage for one, which alters the nature of the family, and has gigantic effects on society at large.

@AchillesThePeacemaker

6 жыл бұрын

Basically, the capability to be "liberal" is caused by the overcoming of limits to choices, and primarily the consequences of those choices. Liberal is defined as not-conservative. Conservative should then be viewed as the bowing to a perceived necessary order, the problem then becomes what IS necessary and what only SEEMS necessary.

@AchillesThePeacemaker

6 жыл бұрын

My newest conceptual observation is that all authoritarianism is anti-liberal, and therefore third-wave feminism is anti-liberal, and only garners the utterance of the name liberal by coincidence of somewhat arbitrary political boundaries and the illusion that this political process is only between conservativism and liberalism, rather than the complex traits which produce those general inclination, and then by the necessity to bring that power to bear in a democracy. Basically it SEEMS liberal to the hyper-feminists, and they ignore the rights of anyone outside their sphere. It's very much like the Russian fascist-communist state and the German fascist-socialist state, and I have great respect for your work in pointing this out. This only makes it more clear to me that the only true communism can be based on democratic rule and via people who understand the virtues that make a good society. The loose definition of communism is something like "means of production in the hands of the people, for the benefit of the people". Well, if those means are controlled by the state and the state isn't controlled by the people, then how can it even be called communism? Is it not simply just enlightened despotism and utter fascism parading itself as altruistic communism? On some level, unless a society understands fully, in full agreement with each other, the needs and desires of every individual, and manages to grant everyone those needs/desires, it cannot be called communism; as it no longer promotes the welfare of every individual. To me it seems the greatest natural barrier to a communist state is the problem that every government is there to attempt to solve; understanding what is best for the people. And the greatest impediment to realizing those understandings is fascist authoritarianism, which limits individual choice and exploration of what is ideal for the individual. My personal opinion on the ideal form of government is a fusion of capitalism, libertarianism, democracy, and socialism which would become generally indistinguishable from an ideal communist state. The primary problem of implementing this kind of government is again; agreement on what is ideal for the individual, and even more fundamentally being able to understand what those things are at all. The slow, utterly slow progress of this is best observed in the United States; with great trial and error and temporary disagreement. However it is our greatest ally; to be able to try and fail and yet continue, that is caused verily by the structure and nature of our world, and supported in the United States by the tenants of free speech and democracy and very importantly liberalism. I should consider more the nature of liberalism to discover more insights into this conundrum.

I'm about 20 minutes into this. If I had to guess, I think that what determines conscienciousness is the amount of success an individual had following plans in the past. The more your plans fail, the more you learn that your efforts are vain, the more it erodes your will and the less you'll be able to implement plans in the future. Like some kind of learned helplessness. That is only a guess though, I will now watch further.

@Theodolphe

7 жыл бұрын

Okay I was completely off. It's interesting, given the link between conservatism and pathogen sensitivity, that I used to refer to the pro-immigration cultural relativist left as civilizational aids.

@UnknownXV

7 жыл бұрын

Taking my own anecdotal experience, most of my plans workout. However, I don't make many of them. I live a more minimalist life. I score high on conscientiousness and low on agreeableness. The standard introvert formula.

@ianbent0n

6 жыл бұрын

I don't think a strong personality trait like this is conditioned by our experiences. "Oh I lack conscientiousness because back in 4th grade I made a plan to ask Sally out and do my homework all in one day, and it failed." It comes way earlier than that...biology or early childhood, probably a combination.

I thought it would be neat if he could organize the 2014-17 personality lectures accordingly so that the most recent research can be provided in a specific order. I love all of them, but I’m wondering which things he said during 2014 has been proven wrong or right in the later years. I know it’s probably easy just to watch all the 2017 ones, but these old ones are so awesome also and can’t be missed!!

51:42 explains Canada in 2020

Also people who are compassionate are inclined to be less punitive and more tolerant and caring.

The mix of power and purity of the torch relay was also started under Hitler at the 1936 Berlin Olympics. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_flame

~38:43 My friend helped me pass out essays. The message was to share natural wealth (to end abject poverty and reduce disparity) and to take account of economic externalities (so that prices tell the truth about costs, profits align with sustainability and people are not given incentive to do harmful things). Afterward, she said that it was much more enjoyable than she had anticipated. I felt irritated, thinking that all the resistance to participating in the effort that I had sensed previously was apparently due to an expectation that passing out essays might not be fun. Well, we're not doing it for fun. We're doing it because people need to know how to resolve existential problems confronting society. We have a moral duty to remedy societal neglect of basic moral precepts. We need to know how to make markets honest and fair.

Hmmm. One thought on the industriousness problem. If the guilt spectrum has been co-conditioned with the anxiety spectrum, for example, by education via "bad conscience" in an otherwise fearful individual, then the bad conscience education may go havoc. It will, instead of leading to natural guilt-avoidance that leads to industriousness, trigger a fear-freeze along with it. So there may be a significant developmental factor. The individuall will procrastinate instead of attacking the issue. However, that will change, if the problem becomes so imminent that a panic response is triggered, which only occurs when the threat is immediate (or at least visualized as an immediate one). This would explain the anxiety-freeze and panic-hyperactive oscillation in procrastination, and integrate well with non-dysfunctional industriousness that only operates on guilt and not anxiety. This may be an important message to educators if it holds true. That may be an interesting topic for my master's thesis, if it's not too big. I'll have to research what there has already been published since this lecture was given. Hmmm. If this is true, then one solution for procrastinating people would be to disentangle guilt and anxiety.Now how could that be done. I wonder whether what happens to the brain circuits in this case. Michl et al. appear to have found that some individuals (mostly men) appear to co-activate the amygdala in guilt responses. That may be the link to the fear network. In contrary to popular belief, in these people cannabinoids should actually make them more productive instead of more lethargic :-)

@ianbent0n

6 жыл бұрын

Are you telling me that if I get high right now, this paper will magically get done? :D

@siriglisson1984

3 жыл бұрын

Ian Benton, better than that! You won’t give a #*%! if it gets done or not (lol)!

I'm 98 on Orderliness which is too high for everyday life. Luckily I'm very low in Neuroticism. Having children helped my extreme need for Orderliness chill out. It's impossible to have a perfectly clean house with kids.

Hi Jordan, I absolutely love all of your talks, podcasts and lectures! I’ve done your personality test and I’ve discovered that I am: Very high in agreeableness Exceptionally High in conscientious Moderately high in extraversion High in openness to experience Very high in neuroticism Very high in openness to experience I’ve tried to find talks/platforms/sites that provide a little more insight on contradicting traits and how it can effect you overall. Like if there are traits that work well together and if having high scores on most traits can be contradicting. Or what it means to be high in all of them? And how that can effect your personality Sometimes I find myself having an internal battle and wondered if that could be because I’m high in most traits? I would love to find a study or talk about this as a lot of the time you only compare two traits together rather than all traits (I know this would be impossible to go over every single possible trait and possible scared) but I wondered if there is anything that can point me in that direction? I hope that makes sense. I also hope you see this comment 🤣 Absolutely LOVE all of your talks and think you are exactly what the world needs right now ❤️

@000glen

Жыл бұрын

I guess if you watch his personality lectures and/or do his personality course you could kind of get an idea about how 2 or 3 traits might fight each other. I have a have an internal "battle" going on between my high consciousness and slightly higher openness. One conducts order and the other one creativity... it's a double-edged sword for sure.

That's enough for now, I see what I can think up for a way to test it. Has to have some sort of societal pressure and structure that creates a norm they follow and go off of that. Maybe testing how they feel about results based pay for employment and how their minds value ideas like that compared to lottery based employment among qualified candidates.. I'll work on it and get back to you lol

I was wondering if there is a correlation between people with low consciousness and childhood emotional neglect? As well, the accumulative effects of abuse, abandonment and neglect they experienced from the age of 0-10

I laughed out loud when Jordan referred to people living in a messy situation as "failing to live up to their responsibilities" and just moved on from there LOL

There is some connection between consciousness and guilt..

I have so many questions.. I'm curious to know if the hierarchy in human society (in every country) is divided proportionally in the same statistics with other species. If there is always a bottom, middle n top, is the distribution fair enough to allow the evolution of humans in a "normal" manner? I wonder if there's research comparing hierarchies..just to get a picture of where we stand in comparison to chimps, hyenas and different other species. It could be really interesting to gather data from all countries and study the situation and statistics of people at the bottom

Think in terms of getting a "raw deal."

44:35 which book/research paper is Jordan reading from? I am interested.

37:30, would this mean that men are more conscientious?

@bendominguez32

5 жыл бұрын

Nick Bultman Women are actually slightly more conscientious than men, although not by much at all. Women are also slightly more orderly, and men are slightly more industrious.

It appears that it is better for animals to be at the top of the dominance hierarchy for closer proximity to food and less proximity to predators or inclement weather. It also appears that it is better for humans to be at the top of the dominance hierarchy for more opportunities. This concept is condensed in the line, "It's good to be the King!" by Mel Brooks as Louis XVI in History of The World.

Think that people with certain high levels of sub-traits in the conscientiousness domain would value the future more relative to the present.

conscientiousness high ppl could be lower in openness. most ppl i met who are workaholics were the most non curious people.

Im not so sure if cognitive science is the way to go about figuring out politics. I find it interesting every time someone asks "are you a conservative?" or something similar. It seems like the idea of someone _being_ a political direction is impregnated into the language. I dont see how you can _be_ an idea. You would have to throw the concept of reason out the window for this to work (seems like a lot of psychologist like to do this). It's the classical agent vs structure conundrum. I have never identified with any political direction. I believe in the power of the better argument (Habermas).

Dr peterson i know you'll probably never read this, but i'm high right now, and i think the trait consciousness could be actually level of culture integration.

Am having a hard time finding lecture 19.

Comment 125: 57,541 views. Plasticity ( extroversion, Openness) O CE A N. ( first and third ) - C -A N. ( 2nd, 4th, 5th. ) Conscientious, Emotional Stability, Agreeableness.

This is what you should be listening to instead of Angela Duckworth's 'Grit' Ted-Ed or book.

9:30 - how to ↑orderliness

I'm exceedingly low conscientiousness but high intelligence. I'm also high extraversion and low agreeableness but high compassion specifically. What this means for me is I'm super lazy but also hate to be beaten. I also am prone to a sob story. Put a challenge in front of me and I will beat it. Also I don't commit to things very often but if I promise something or someone is relying on me I will always follow through. There are only two things in the disgust camp that bother me. I can't stand the sounds of others eating and other mouth sounds. The other is when someone commits to something and doesn't follow through, like being late. I am certain disorganized and untidy and that rarely bothers me.

50:30 - I can't decide how recent this is now, but along in here he's association various sorts of intolerance with political conservatism. But I think the liberal wing also exhibits plenty of intolerance these days - both sides are terribly guilty of this. We used to be able to discuss things and arrive at some kind of reasonable compromise, but these days it's just all out "seek and destroy" warfare. Not healthy.

@debless9572

3 жыл бұрын

Leftist authoritarianism seems very tied to notions of harm/care and fairness or justice (equality of outcome). Free societies don't generate equal outcomes.

@KipIngram

3 жыл бұрын

@@debless9572 Very true. And I think any attempt to "force" equal outcomes through political means is doomed to failure. The reason people (most people) go out and work is because they expect to benefit from the effort. Take that away and productivity will fall, massively. Now, that doesn't mean you can't take *some* and use it for humanitarian purposes. Just leave enough incentive on the table to make the engine go.

Cameraman more interested in your face than the projector slides you're pointing at

You only have yo see the current situation with the covid 19, the people let the goverment do things that in a normal situation will be autoritarism

The pestilence theory sounds logical, BUT are not high vs low pathogen countries also, in most cases, countries that differ in wealth and educational attainment? How do we know it is not these latter factors that account for differences in authoritarianism? And how do we account for creeping authoritarianism in western countries since the 1990's?

Didn't cut them slides in Jordan

9:57 *Stops video, looks around* Well fuck, I should pick some of this shit up.

we watch JP asking his students on yt somehow ironic

"I've spent a long time by studying Hitler"... Ok, that's the part I started to adore this lectures.

@mezidvemastromy5546

2 жыл бұрын

@@dans2971 of course I do🤣 I mean, he goes deeper than just "He was a fuckin' devil, therefore he manipulated the whole society and therefore we should hate him and spit aside whenever anyone in the discussion mentions him", that's the cool point I like about this quote.

@jensonphan

2 жыл бұрын

@@dans2971 Jordan Peterson takes his time to fully evaluate the extent to how someone's(in this case Hitler's) psychology progresses to a degree and explains all of the precursor and minute details into such a transformation.

Don't all these traits just depend on what situation you are in at that time in your life? The fact that orderliness depends largely on environmental levels of pestilence and famine does suggest this. Like these things are learned, they are not innate.

Dr Grande says it better, like a man....OCEAN.

I'm 99 on the Conscientiousness scale. My poor husband is always telling me to sit down and relax. But I literally cannot. Even when I sit on the couch, I like to be doing something like needlework.

35:45 "Assuming you have enough to take care of your basic needs..." This is an assumption that we *could* make, if we were (what?) conscientious enough or attentive enough or virtuous enough to insist that our institutions operated honestly and fairly. An honest market would be one that charges fees to industries proportional to pollution emitted, resources extracted or habitat disturbed or destroyed. Sharing proceeds from those fees (a measure of the value of that which is made by natural processes, not human effort) to all people would make the policy fair. If fees are set *just high enough* to bring impacts of various kinds into line with what most people think is acceptable (as revealed by a system of random polls) would embody in practice the idea that we have a shared right to set limits to humans' overall impacts on the environment.

Funny how JP talks about him being orderly but forgets to edit in the slides and if you read the slide that was shown, you'd see that it's a mess of bulletpoints where some are positively correlated to orderliness and others are negatively correlated.

I took the personality test and got low in conscientiousness but extreme high openness. I’ve got a Degree in Fine Arts do very well in IQ tests I procrastinate a lot but at work I’m one of the hardest workers and constantly have to be physically clean I force myself to only shower twice per day but like 4 times. I’d be middle right wing too, feeling like a contradiction :(

42:19 the origin of the movie Parasite

he references someone named "gray" alot. does anyone know who "gray" is? he's not in peterson's reading list!

@elektrochava

6 жыл бұрын

Julius Newman Jeffrey Alan Gray

SOMEONE POST THE PAPERS THAT JORDAN QUOTES, it's impossible to find them by writing parts of the articles...

@karyonemos

3 жыл бұрын

The 2017 lecture video includes the slides, one can find the papers there

@curtisjackson5793

3 жыл бұрын

@@karyonemos I went there, but although the video shows the slides, some times it is still impossible to find the source papers (I could find some of them, though).

lol @ 56:15 you would never see a university from within again if you did that in a classroom here in Germany - even if it's for demonstrative purposes :D let alone film yourself while doing this and putting it on KZread.

50:00

Will it make sense to hire based on conscientiousness?

@franzferdinand2389

6 жыл бұрын

Depends on what task you want to hire them for.

@omerinflow

6 жыл бұрын

I just gave the test. In my personal life, I have made goals and I am not consistent with them. At the workplace, I have always been on time and worked hard. So, when I got conscientiousness at 6th percentile, I was very surprised. But then I realized that I slack with personal goals and I beat myself about it so I rated myself really low on questions like "I always finish my tasks" but this test expanded that to everything. So, I would say that for now, it is not a good idea to not hire based on low conscientousness.

@wobbe6624

6 жыл бұрын

Omert83 I wholeheartedly agree with you, i have the exact same experience. I am often described as a hard worker at work, but i am the exact opposite in my personal life. I take alot responsibility when my effort affects a team/group effort, but when concerning my own goals and tasks, that would further me personally, i have the lowest conscientiousness possible. correlating, i scored 0 on conscienctiousness. Now i do consider the fact that that score might be slightly skewed since i am quite crititical towards myself regarding my vice's, and since i am not in the best mood because of a current family health matter, i might've exxagerated slighty.., but still, i find it funny that you seem too have the same discrepancy between a low c score but being a hard worker as long as it isnt a personal goal. I wonder if this correlation is common for low conscientiousness people..

@omerinflow

6 жыл бұрын

Nice to see a person going through a similar situation. If we two have had the same issue then others might be on the same boat. I think what's interesting is that my personal goals are all related to stuff where I have to sit down and do my work and not depend on a team. So, I want to learn web development, the learning part is all me. Then if I start working in this field then I will come across people. So, I have started working on being more disciplined with personal goals but really at the initial point of it. I have tried using the google calendar but following it can be challenging. I really like Peterson's idea about making the schedule work for you. So, I enjoy reading, I have put in a 2 hour break for reading between my two big chunks of personal work. I am still working to keep focusing on my personal goals too.

@nattikgur-arie8687

6 жыл бұрын

Should and IS high on the list of things to look for. How high and what OTHER traits depends on the job. It is a miracle you can keep a job with a 0C score. I can't keep a job with 2C and would imagine it to be very hard for someone with 6C. Both of you are being way to hard on yourself and you know it. you admitted it in your posts. Give yourself some credit for keeping a job and working hard. You deserve it!

I'm high in intelligence and conscientious but extremely low extroversion, emotional stability, and agreeableness... what do I do?

@fapstronaut3671

4 жыл бұрын

well, if youre inteligent and conscientious you can figure that out.

@michasengotta2295

4 жыл бұрын

Obviously, because if you were more agreeable, you wouldn't have been arrogant enough to write this. So first work on emotional stability by practicing something like meditation or see a therapist if it's severe. Then try to be a bit more humble and force yourself to do favors for other people to increase your agreeableness. Maybe do something good for homeless people and actually get to know people you don't agree with and force yourself not to object to what they're saying. This should also help with extroversion, especially if you do it at parties and alike.

@ndndndnnduwjqams

4 жыл бұрын

You have to focus in one main thing to be more agreeable: make the world a better place. With that responsibility you will have more willpower than you had ever had. Good luck

Part of the great appeal of Hitler's "purity" speeches upon the German people was 400 years of Lutheranism. "Purity" as a Nazi political value resonated so well because Germans for four centuries had imbibed every Sunday in church Luther's obsession with 'purity' in his theology, letters, and sermons. An argument could be made that the Lutheran Reformation in Germany (at the time, the Holy Roman Empire) was inspired by Luther's 'disgust' at the pecuniary practices of Roman Catholic Rome. Good Germans read Leviticus in the Holy Bible and identified with Luther's fierce, deterministic demands for cleanliness. Hitler rose to political power by appealing to the values that the German people had already long admired. Luther's notorious contempt and hatred for the German peasant was exceeded only by his hatred and revulsion for the Jew. Although Nazism was birthed by many things, Luther's teachings on purity were prominent.

@thoughtheglass

7 жыл бұрын

Don Kirk it is historically nieve to imagine leviticus - the heart of Jewish scripture, was something the nazis liked or even tolerated. it may be worth reading up on positive Christianity and particularly the representation of the old testament (the bank of Scripture leviticus appears in) in nazi churches and schools.

@geoffreyharris5682

6 жыл бұрын

Well note that morality, particularly religious morality, involves elements of ritual purity, public conformity (to rituals, social practices etc), and issues of individual conscience related to how well one's behavior through action and inaction resonates with one's fundamental values. It is interesting to see how villany and evil can arise from too great an exercise of morality.

18:22

Highly conscientious but also procrastinate and feel guilty smh

So what is he saying, don't as a defendant put your faith in a judge who has not been well fed?

10:20 everythhhinnnnggg. In its right placcce, Right plaaacce. Right plaaacce. Right place.... Lol

@andreeazamfir9713

3 жыл бұрын

There are two colors in my head

PETERSON IS MY NIGGA

@BradPitbull

6 жыл бұрын

yolo

Conscienceness sounds like people who agree with the system or do not question it. Let me explain. The path from A to B is clearly defined. Put in this much work and get this outcome. Save your money, then buy a house. I believe they would be happier long term because they find success through stepping up the ladder in a define system. They see success as it is defined to them within that system so the feel accomplished when they reach it. Non conscientious people likely weigh outcome more personally then instead of societally. Such as college degree, employment, being married, children. Society says you should value this and I believe conscientious people are able to orient themselves around that where as someone not conscientious like myself questions the system and finds a lot of the societal goals of wellness arbitrary. I look at a college degree and don't understand how this piece of paper makes me more valuable to society? Because of my intelligence, being older and experiencing multiply job markets. I feel a college degree isn't a good marker for abilities or intellect but for most jobs it's like key to getting Into that structured system. I'm going to definitely be less successful in terms of society but maybe I'll be much happier in self fulfillment? I think they have so much trouble testing conscientiousness because it is link to society standards and structures. Trying to measure it without the context of the societal structure doesn't work because the people just see it as a task instead of a goal for bettering their life. I would also say people become more conscientious the more successful they become in life due to following the system. They see a result and say "college got me a job" "showing up and working hard got me a promotion" "saving got me a house" all achievements society values and goals that can be reach by staying to the path society has laid out. I be conscientious people do less drugs and suffer less from addiction. I'm willing to bet that if they fall victim to addiction that being conscientious is good indicator of if the will have long term success staying clean.

Dr. Peterson, I have a comment. I think however, the complexity of my comment might need to be broken into a group of messages or, I wish I could speak with you in any way.

High neuroticism low conscientousness 🤦🏽‍♀️

So I am extremely low on Orderliness, yet I am conservative; explain that

@jrd33

3 жыл бұрын

You are not defined by just one personality trait. I'd guess that you have other personality traits that are more common among conservatives, or possibly you rank low in the traits usually found in liberals. Or maybe you're a conservative because your parents were liberals and you didn't get along with them, who knows? Jonathan Haidt explores this (correlation between political views and personality traits) more thoroughly in The Righteous Mind.

I believe that people can be conscientious some of the time but not all of it like you can be a hard worker and a few years later be a total slacker It may have something to do with obedience because you're channeling your parental voice when u get things done just like you were tought to do by your parents from the assumption that we are all children at heart.